March 30, 2017

July 18, 2009

[OPEN THREAD] How will you decompress from GC 2009?

For me, it will be time with friends, maybe a movie [Star Trek or Harry Potter have my initial votes], and lots of time outdoors.  I also have a lot of things to say to Jesus, and hope to hear some things from Him as well.

But the very best way to decompress from the clouds of vacuity, shallowness, shared stories of mutual suffering victimhood [here in the richest, freest, and most self-absorbed country in the world], and sheer ignorance, interspersed with brief outbursts of enraged rhetoric, that makes up The Episcopal Church at its highest legislative level, from the past ten days in the insane asylum is to read . . .

P. G. Wodehouse’s Mulliner Nights.  I particularly recommend to you “The Story of Webster” [for all of those who have been owned by a cat], as well as “The Voice From the Past.”

Witty, brilliant writing, terribly amusing and buffoonish characters [that make us laugh at ourselves even as we firmly believe that we are far less buffoonish than these made-up-characters].  Unlike all the progressive witnesses at the microphones in Anaheim, the book deliberately wishes to make you to laugh out loud—and you will, without feeling guilty for doing so accidentally.

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There’s always single-malt Scotch. Drinking solves no problems, and creates new ones, but it does provide some sort of temporary amnesia.

Going to see Harry Potter is probably not a good idea for those of us who are remaining as Episcopalians. It might give us new ideas for liturgy.

For reading, there’s the Screwtape Letters.

[1] Posted by Ralph on 7-18-2009 at 12:07 PM · [top]

Ah wink I love P.G. Wodehouse.

As much as I’d like to decompress, I believe we remain at a crucial moment.  So I’ll be organizing online prayer, trying to bring communion-minded TEC’ers and ACNA’ers together, since I think this is essential to helping those who remain in TEC, for a number of reasons, and is simply a good thing to do.  Would be thrilled if you’d join us.

[2] Posted by Wilf on 7-18-2009 at 12:14 PM · [top]

Our decompression won’t start until after tomorrow.  We may be called on to share what we have learned with the congregation and then after the service.

Then we may go to a movie.  But we will purposefully disconnect.

[3] Posted by The Lakeland Two on 7-18-2009 at 12:20 PM · [top]

#3 Lakeland Two -
You are fortunate tht you are in a church where the priest would expose the results of the General Convention to the pew-sitters.

[4] Posted by Doogal1234 on 7-18-2009 at 12:28 PM · [top]

We are in a church where we are searching for a new rector.  I’ve been asking for prayer the last two Sundays for GC during announcements. Other than a written request in the bulletin by the Parish Administrator, there has not been any discussion.  We’re known for keeping our eyes on what’s going on.  Other than that, it is not discussed much.  We face ostracism by some because we have questioned.  Others come up to us and ask what’s going on.  It certainly isn’t coming from the top down.  I credit Bishop Howe for posting updates on the Diocesan website this time.  That’s the most I’ve ever seen done.

[5] Posted by The Lakeland Two on 7-18-2009 at 12:35 PM · [top]

Gardening with chainsaws. The wisteria has gotten completely out of control in our far back yard. One of the side yards has leggy trees and bushes galore. Gardening clears the mind and purges the soul. Especially if you get to use power tools.


[6] Posted by Matthew A (formerly mousestalker) on 7-18-2009 at 12:40 PM · [top]

Since all the air went out of The Episcopal Organization at GC09, I suppose we might as well decompress also.  Especially good to exhale every wind of doctrine, no?

Decompress with a treasure little-known outside of classical guitar and lute circles, music by Silvius Weiss, a contemporary and acquaintance of J. S. Bach, played by the (I think) best lutenist today, Robert Barto.  This link will take you straight to the playlist.  Enjoy!

[7] Posted by Milton on 7-18-2009 at 12:49 PM · [top]

In prayer.

For Archbishop Rowan for the difficult choices and decisions he has before him and that he may he be granted guidance, wisdom and the Peace of God which passes all understanding.

For the bishops of the Church of England as they consider matters.

For those faithful and courageous Christians in America.

For God’s purposes for our Communion.

[8] Posted by Pageantmaster ن on 7-18-2009 at 12:49 PM · [top]

Matthew A LOL!!!  “Gardening with chainsaws” indeed.  Is that like “Dancing With Wolves”?

[9] Posted by Milton on 7-18-2009 at 12:51 PM · [top]

Finding an ACNA bishop and packing my vestments.

[10] Posted by JerryKramer on 7-18-2009 at 12:55 PM · [top]

Even though I knew the patient was going to die, I still have to work through the 5 stages of grief. With apologies to Elizabeth Kubler Ross;

1) Denial:
Example - “All is well, they didn’t really mean it.”
2) Anger:
Example - “What idiots!” Don’t they know that they have chosen sin over life!?”
3) Bargaining:
Example - “Just keep my church safe.”; “I’ll do anything for a few more years of peace in my Diocese.”
4) Depression:
Example - “I’m so sad, why bother with anything?”; “I’m going to die . . . What’s the point?”; “I miss the good old days, why go on?”
5) Acceptance:
Example - “It’s going to be okay.”; “I can’t fight it, I may as well prepare for the end.”

Prayer with a pen is how I got through dark times like this in the past. In the end, I was reborn. So, I shall retire to drafting blogs, dining with friends, preparing for the end.

“I go to prove my soul!
I see my way as birds their tracklessway.
I shall arrive! what time, what circuit first, I ask not…
In some time, His good time, I shall arrive.”

[11] Posted by Undergroundpewster on 7-18-2009 at 01:02 PM · [top]

Drinking a bottle of red wine and going to a Joe Cocker concert.  Going to church tomorrow and listening to my priest and see if he address it and tells us what we do next.

[12] Posted by hoggy on 7-18-2009 at 01:04 PM · [top]

I’m going right to work. Since TEC and GC, in particular, seem to operate at the direction of which “oppressed group” screams the loudest, I plan to initiate SASS—Sidelined Anglican Singles Speak. This group will rage about the single state being demonized by homosexuals, who bristle at the very idea of being called to chastity along with us, and by smug marrieds, who seem to think that singles are only waiting to get married or that we’re losers who can’t find marriage partners. Hmph!

TEC OWES us a listening process, a radical agenda toward “inclusion,” and rites and rituals that celebrate our lives and stories. After all, we were BORN single!

I have been baptized, and proudly carry the name of One who was eminently SINGLE!

[13] Posted by teatime on 7-18-2009 at 01:06 PM · [top]

I spoke, briefly, with my across-the-street neighbor who is the Vicar of the TEC mission in our town this morning.  When he said “I’m sure General Convention knows what it is doing,” I realized how much of the kool-aid he’d consumed and told him that perhaps we should limit our conversations to sports and the weather from now on. So I’m going to continue attending our LCMS congregation, pray for those who cannot get out of TEC, and watch the continued implosion from afar.

[14] Posted by Puritan Souls on 7-18-2009 at 01:26 PM · [top]

Decompression?  Does that ward off depression?  Is it the com part (as in Communion)?  Well, only time will tell if the Communion is interested in being a Christian organization.
As for me and mine, we will be entering a period of discernment as to God’s call on our lives.  I admit to often praying for discharge papers from this battle but must await word as to whether the time has come to shake the dust.

[15] Posted by Jackie on 7-18-2009 at 01:42 PM · [top]

#10 Fr. Jerry+
Whether you are speaking out of frustration or are really about to take the leap…I have admired your service and faithfulness from afar.  We have some mutual friends through Nashotah House, Diocese of Dallas, and CANA.  Did +Jenkins sign the miraculous “Anaheim Statement”???  Blessings!!!

[16] Posted by TXThurifer on 7-18-2009 at 01:44 PM · [top]

Decompress?  I’m just giving thanks for the GOOD people who were there, and bore witness.  Then rereading all the Potter books (I saw the new movie at midnight when it came out - and then kept dreaming about ‘men in purple’ turning out to be bad wizards, pulling out their wands in the HoB . . . ).  then, mainly, sending off )paper) letters to all and sundry; my English who still think there’s no problem in America, and the faithful Bishops and others who fought bravely while here.  And, in the exhausted stupor, praying long and deep for all involved.

[17] Posted by Iona Pilgrim on 7-18-2009 at 01:53 PM · [top]

Watching the Tour de France
Training for the St. George (Utah) Marathon in October.

[18] Posted by Fr. Dale on 7-18-2009 at 01:53 PM · [top]

I am going to pray, most especially for a young man who stayed with the TEC part of our parish when we split last year, and who has just been ordained a transitional deacon. With his background, I don’t fell optimistic as to how his call from the Lord will play out in TEC, considering the decisions made at GC09.  Then, I’m going to work so our ACNA parish is prepared for some of the hurting souls in TEC who must now say, “I can’t go there”.  And I will hope some friends will be among them!

[19] Posted by Goughdonna on 7-18-2009 at 01:57 PM · [top]

No decompression for at least 10 days yet, then vacation. 

Have a parishioner returning from serving as deputy at GC who is eager to tell the congregation about all of the wonderful things they did @ GC.  This person is not - shall we say - theologically on the same page as I am, so have to prayerfully deal with that. 

Have a theologically, ethnically, and culturally diverse (don’t you dare use the word “inclusive”) congregation.  Most so burdened with economic or social issues that they don’t know - or care - about TEC.  The ones who do care are about evenly divided on the so-called issues.

Ah, yes, priests only work and worry one day a week.

[20] Posted by GL+ on 7-18-2009 at 02:12 PM · [top]

I’ve been listening to Robin Mark’s “There is no other Name,” “At the Dawning,” and “There’s a Cry” over and over and over and over and over.

[21] Posted by Michael+ on 7-18-2009 at 02:16 PM · [top]

Matthew A, you may be gardening with chainsaws, but the revisionist bishops and deputies were figuratively juggling with chainsaws, with predictable results. wink

[22] Posted by Milton on 7-18-2009 at 02:28 PM · [top]

And Robin Mark’s “When its all been said and done”

[23] Posted by GL+ on 7-18-2009 at 02:30 PM · [top]

After a lengthy absence I will be back in church tomorrow…an Orthodox parish.  This time my wife will be joining me.

[24] Posted by Nikolaus on 7-18-2009 at 02:33 PM · [top]

Working with Mootette on diving without assistance.  Watching her learn how to plie during parent’s day.  Thinking of a third pre-pre-K activity (art or music?) that she can do. 

Also, strategizing with my parish cohorts.

[25] Posted by J Eppinga on 7-18-2009 at 02:40 PM · [top]

Catching up on some sleep! I have been up late every night (thanks to the time difference) trying to put together information for others to read.
I will be praying for those who leave TEC and find a church home. We left without a priest in Feb., but fortunately our diocese is one in ACNA. So, they were able to find us an excellent retired priest and many were able to give us the supplies we need.
The pain is real. I will also pray for healing and guidance for all those who are effected by this.
#2. I can’t join you this Sunday because we are having our annual ice cream social that day but would like to in the future.

[26] Posted by martin5 on 7-18-2009 at 02:50 PM · [top]

#2 I might just join you inworld.


[27] Posted by miserable sinner on 7-18-2009 at 02:53 PM · [top]

#25. Moot,
(#6) Matthew A is gardening with chainsaws. Is it too early to offer Mootette some chainsaw handling tips? My kids got the chainsaws with the bead chain that went around the bar and the “engine noise” made by pulling the cord.

[28] Posted by Fr. Dale on 7-18-2009 at 03:08 PM · [top]

(1) Having some worship and fellowship this evening with some non-Episcopal brothers and sisters in Christ—connecting to God in a way that doesn’t remind me of my job or the Episcopal Church (a practice I recommend other clergy try occasionally); (2) Re-reading Lord of the Rings, which I read for the first time 39 years ago this month and have re-read at least once every five years since.  It has a lot to say about courage in the face of unexpected dangers and unsought conflict; (3) Leaving in a few days for a beautiful place with green fields, wooded hills and sweeping vistas of the Mississippi River valley—back to the good earth and far from civilization and the ways we have screwed things up.

[29] Posted by ToAllTheWorld on 7-18-2009 at 03:14 PM · [top]

Any suggestions on what clergy should say tommorrow?

[30] Posted by FrVan on 7-18-2009 at 03:33 PM · [top]

P.G. Wodehouse is a great choice.  I especially like “Leave It To Psmith”:  “....  Beach the butler entered, a dignified procession of one ...” -being one of my favorite lines.

Prayer, really looking forward to church tomorrow, enjoying our 23rd anniversary and going out to dinner tonight,

In the garden:  therapeutic mowing, planting a new hydrangea bush, planting more vegetable plants. 

Goal: to stay away from Stand Firm for the weekend -if I can!

[31] Posted by Bill C on 7-18-2009 at 03:34 PM · [top]

We’re in the process of packing for the move back east, and I admit to bunking off from packing, to read the updates here more often than I should. Still however, it’s helped to read the reports and comments, rather than just stew over it on my own.

[32] Posted by mari on 7-18-2009 at 03:40 PM · [top]

Fr. Jerry,

I’ll be praying for you and your flock.

[33] Posted by Sparky on 7-18-2009 at 03:45 PM · [top]

#30 They need to know that the PB considers personal salvation a serious heresy and the HOB refused to acknowledge the need to present the iniqueness of Jesus. The AOC asked that we not widen the gap and GC renounced the Windsor resolution. The PB then wrote the AC and said that they did not do it. TEC has serious budget problems and is losing members. There is a serious split over tradition and scripture. More members will be lost. Most folks in the pew are in the dark.

[34] Posted by Pb on 7-18-2009 at 04:17 PM · [top]

Say, Pb #33, nice summary.  I can see that as announcement #2 tucked in (and said quickly) between welcoming visitors and thanking people for helping with Vacation Bible School.  Ri—-ght (a la Bill Cosby). O , wait a minute, did you forget finally precipitating the end of the Worldwide Anglican Communion as we have known it?

[35] Posted by Village vicar on 7-18-2009 at 04:33 PM · [top]

I’m off on holiday for a week. Packing the family in the people mover and off for 3 days in wine country, then an overnight stay in the zoo and associated merriment.

See you all when I get back!

[36] Posted by David Ould on 7-18-2009 at 04:57 PM · [top]

Here in Fort Worth, I’ll just turn on the lights-air the TEC decisions far and wide,  and watch the cockroaches-pretend “orthodox” clergy- scramble for cover. There are newsletters from their churches to job their memory about “orthodox” claims. No handwringing allowed. They are behind the lawsuits here, so let the festivities begin.

[37] Posted by hellcat on 7-18-2009 at 05:20 PM · [top]

Hellcat 37…it was enough to make me grieve to see some of those “orthodox clergy” in the FW Shadow Delegation in a picture on a panel with Dr. Schori at GC09.  Surreal…especially regarding the youngest clergyperson in the pic.

[38] Posted by TXThurifer on 7-18-2009 at 05:57 PM · [top]

30…just give a straight account…nobody could make this stuff up.

[39] Posted by TXThurifer on 7-18-2009 at 05:59 PM · [top]

FR VAN #30, Agree with #39.  Pray and ask how God wants you to lead your congregation from here.  That’s one of the questions you will be asked.

A good summary of where things are in all this is on Angican Curmudgeon’s site listed under the blogs.  Look for the Food for Thought article.

This is not the first time in history that God’s people have faced adversity.  But if we continue to lean on Him and seek His guidance, God will lead us.

May Jesus give you His peace tomorrow as you lead.

[40] Posted by The Lakeland Two on 7-18-2009 at 06:21 PM · [top]

I did not see Louisiana on the Anaheim Statement. The only reaction people here are having when they see what GC did is, “I want out.” Even the moderates. The devil always overplays his hand. Thank you for prayers.

[41] Posted by JerryKramer on 7-18-2009 at 06:51 PM · [top]

Hellcat #37, I went to Anglican School of Theology with a number of Orthodox souls from Cowtown (Ft Worth).  I am glad to see Iker+ has continued to walk the walk, not just talking the talk like Stanton+ in Dallas.  I’ll never forget Stanton+ telling my wife and I, in July 2006, that the Diocese of Dallas was Orthodox-friendly…then, just over a month later, making it impossible for Dallas to ever leave TEC.  Waffles and Anglican fudge aren’t a good combination.

[42] Posted by Puritan Souls on 7-18-2009 at 07:08 PM · [top]

I just saw the most amazing movie today….a documentary, so it’s not an escape, but…. “Food, Inc.”
This is not a Michael Moore kind of thing…..  Very balanced and VERY well done.  I highly recommend this!

[43] Posted by Liz Forman on 7-18-2009 at 07:49 PM · [top]

Going to Nashotah House for two weeks of continuing education.  I hope they still have sherry hour before the community dinners.

[44] Posted by revrj on 7-18-2009 at 08:12 PM · [top]

I killed a couple of God’s creatures and ate them.  They were good.

[45] Posted by jamesk on 7-18-2009 at 08:21 PM · [top]

Well for those of us still in TEC I am hoping our priests will have something to say ref the convention..“business as usual” will not be acceptiable

[46] Posted by ewart-touzot on 7-18-2009 at 08:37 PM · [top]

#42…regarding Dallas duplicity…don’t get me started!!!!!!!

[47] Posted by TXThurifer on 7-18-2009 at 08:52 PM · [top]

IT IS TIME FOR GAFCON II.  If nothing is done to excommunicate the Episcopal Church from the WWC, then we will be just as “guilty by association.”  TEC has brought shame on the communion and they must go.

[48] Posted by The Templar on 7-18-2009 at 08:57 PM · [top]

Sitting outside with 30,000 others at the Sioux Falls Jazz and Blues Festival and visiting an Orthodox parish in the morning.

[49] Posted by midwestnorwegian on 7-18-2009 at 08:59 PM · [top]

Tomorrow, if I get done with rounds in time, I’m gonna stop by the Benedictine parish and stick my toe in the Tiber as well.

[50] Posted by jamesk on 7-18-2009 at 09:01 PM · [top]

Matthew A (formerly mousestalker):
Gardening, definitely.
As you may know, time spent gardening is not taken off you earthly allotment of time.

[51] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 7-18-2009 at 09:10 PM · [top]

Finding an ACNA bishop and packing my vestments.

Fr. Kramer, go fishing or something first. You’re in my prayers.

[52] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 7-18-2009 at 09:13 PM · [top]

44…Nashotah is always a good idea!!!

48…look at this excommunication scene from Becket…Richard Burton is a very stirring Thomas Becket, Archbishop of Canterbury…

49…ACNA will do well to heed Metropolitan Jonah’s admonitions from the ACNA Assembly…

50…yeah…I think many are thinking about it…some on SF appear to be diving in…

[53] Posted by TXThurifer on 7-18-2009 at 09:13 PM · [top]

[#28] Dcn Dale

Mootette is three years and change, so it’s probably a bit too early.  But I think my chainsaw days are over.  A few weeks ago, we found a bone spur in my neck, and the chiro has determined that it probably started about the time I was a carver.  Apparently, there are biomechanical limits on how much the human ought to carry on the shoulder (Not that telling me that back then would have made a difference, mind you).

If she displays an interest in art, I’ll encourage her to work with watercolor.

[54] Posted by J Eppinga on 7-18-2009 at 09:16 PM · [top]

Reciting prayerfully: “Be present, O merciful God, and protect us through the hours of this night, so that we who are wearied by the changes and chances of this life may rest in your eternal changelesness; through Jesus Christ our Lord.  Amen.”  Compline, BCP p. 133; followed by a reading of the Apostle’s Creed.  Peace+

[55] Posted by Chalcedonia on 7-18-2009 at 09:45 PM · [top]

A good pipe with a good friend….talkin’ shop.

[56] Posted by Saint Dumb Ox on 7-18-2009 at 10:10 PM · [top]

Correction: My post, #37, had a typo. It should read, “jog their memory, not job their memory”.

[57] Posted by hellcat on 7-18-2009 at 10:13 PM · [top]

#48 - that, my dear, is what we’ve been saying for the last dozen or so years.  And why anoyone is still left in TEC . . . i understand, but I really don’t understand.

#50 - been there for more than 10 years.  I look forwatrd to sufficient growth in ACNA so I can finally come back home.  Kind as they’ve been . . . Rome is not home and never will be. At least, for me.

[58] Posted by Iona Pilgrim on 7-18-2009 at 10:35 PM · [top]

# 58—home is in the life to come, not this life.  We’re all dong little more than shopping for the best realtor right now…

[59] Posted by Puritan Souls on 7-18-2009 at 10:50 PM · [top]

I went to a friends wedding today hoping this would help. At the Eucharist the priest announced that “all are welcome to recieve the sacrament of Holy Communion in this church”. Tommorow I will try again.

[60] Posted by art+ on 7-18-2009 at 10:50 PM · [top]

60…The “craziest” it ever got in FW or in my parishes in Dallas was all BAPTIZED CHRISTIANS(not to say there aren’t loosey-goosey places in Dallas…there are)...a lot of D/FW parishes also stipulated the discernment of Real Presence.  It’s “close communion”...but not “closed communion”.
Even growing up in a ultra-low Protestant denomination with a “pure memorial” theology, only baptized Christians would be invited to receive.

[61] Posted by TXThurifer on 7-18-2009 at 11:03 PM · [top]

Trying not to hang out here too much. wink

Reminding myself that we left our TEC parish at the end of last year and that’s not my battle anymore. (It never really was. “The battle belongs to the Lord.”)

Visiting Christ Church, Plano (again) because even though the drive is longer than we’re used to, the worship, music, and preaching are encouraging, healing, and edifying.  (We can sit back and soak in it for a season.)

[62] Posted by Jill C. on 7-18-2009 at 11:06 PM · [top]

#59 - Thanks; that may help me cope with chronic homesickness. 

But on a more practical level; 10 years in Rome (as an active member, but as a still avowed Anglican-in-refuge) has merely decompressed the anger, frustration and general reaction of horror over all the ECUSA/TEC/what you will games and spin.  It has not done much to even increase, or maintain Love for or Knowledge of the Saviour.  Btu . . . better in some house than the desert, in nearly all cases.

[63] Posted by Iona Pilgrim on 7-18-2009 at 11:08 PM · [top]

No decompression needed here. Just a bit of lament as I watch the smoke from a distance. Teaching Sunday morning, happy to pick up any survivors.

[64] Posted by Festivus on 7-19-2009 at 12:19 AM · [top]

#51—Never heard that before [about gardening} but love it!  And I believe it must be true.

[65] Posted by heart on 7-19-2009 at 06:39 AM · [top]

Actually, its back to doing the work that God has called me to.  I led our Saturday Evening Prayer service and preached on 1Sam last night.  After the service, two prospective new members in our confirmation class came up to me and told me they were having second thoughts about being received into the church after the events of GC2009.  I encouraged them to think about the things of our local parish which had led us to worship here and to think about the things locally that had called their hearts to be received.  They listened to me but said that they would have to pray about it, that this might not be where they want to be.
Sorry Susan Russell, that big growth thing you crowed about may not happen.

[66] Posted by Capt. Father Warren on 7-19-2009 at 07:13 AM · [top]

#45 I’ve always heard elves were kind of chewy and a little gamey.  How’d you cook them?

[67] Posted by heart on 7-19-2009 at 07:22 AM · [top]

#62—my mother has been at ChristChurch (Plano) for 3 years after almost 40 years at Transfiguration (Dallas).  Please free to send me a note on this site, and I’ll be happy to give you her contact information.

[68] Posted by Puritan Souls on 7-19-2009 at 08:31 AM · [top]

#67 Wash your mouth out heart - we do not forget!

[69] Posted by The_Elves on 7-19-2009 at 08:49 AM · [top]

I’m with you, #50, but a bit more than toe-deep—I’m chin-deep but gasping for air in hopes that somehow I can stay in the Anglican fold. Reminds me of an old Johnny Cash song my late mother used to love…“How high’s the water, Mama?”...“Three feet high and risin’...”

[70] Posted by lift high the Cross on 7-19-2009 at 08:59 AM · [top]

One word: laughter.  I realize this might be stretching the limits of decorum on this site, but assuming the powers that be allow this to remain I defy anyone to tell me how TEC’s current teaching on sexuality differs substantively from this:

[71] Posted by Wolverine on 7-19-2009 at 10:16 AM · [top]

My decompression involved a .22 rifle, a 9 mm pistol, and the public gun range down the road. Perforating some paper is always a good stress reliever.

After that Harry Potter, which in both book and movie form has provided me reliably entertaining escapism for going on eleven years now. Unfortunately, maybe because of all the English Gothic architecture in the beautifully made scenery, my mind kept going back to the church throughout the movie. One thing I realized is that in the back of my mind I have trouble keeping ++Rowan and Dumbledore separate. Old, wise, genial, big gray beard, lives in Britain, never seems to do quite all that is in his power to fix the situation…

[72] Posted by Ecclesiastes 1:18 on 7-19-2009 at 11:50 AM · [top]

I’m currently watching old Tom Watson win the Open Championship!

[73] Posted by GrandpaDino on 7-19-2009 at 11:55 AM · [top]

Wolverine, that was not only depressing, but also increased my decompression needs.
Not that it didn’t ring true…

[74] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 7-19-2009 at 01:17 PM · [top]

Begin with PRAYER… Then some hammock time with some Ron Zacapa 23 year old Rum… Eyes closed ans savor the quiet moments; the breeze and the coolness of the shade. Then it is time for the seven course dinner of seven types of meat to just tease the tar out of the Queen of Darkness at 815.  Yum… bovine ribs tase so good with a shot of Ron.

[75] Posted by Tom Dennis on 7-19-2009 at 02:41 PM · [top]

I am going to prayerfully and carefully consider the actions and implications of GC09 and those of the ACC/JSC together.

I will also review the paths and actions of Anglicanism from 1998 (or 1970s) to the present and of Anglicanism from its beginning as well. 
See Path to Realignment: 

Anglicanism is a beautiful form of worship that has been bound in an unfortunate and flawed political structure. Accountability seems to never have been practiced sanely…it’s either burn, seize and pillage or wink and nod. 
In recent years, fudge and compromise have been served up regularly.
Anglicanism will now have to decide and act concretely in order to survive.  Anglicanism will be evaluated in light of what the global body will and will not heed, hold to and abide by and what it will and will not tolerate…and what it will do. 

The Word and Law of God and the Church are not merely powerful phrases and boundaries delineated on paper, but are really defined and validated by action.  The word written and heard must be the word heeded, made flesh by practice and action.  Faith without works is dead.  Word without action is worthless. 

Anglican documents, statements and agreements, bishops and archbishops and Canterbury’s words and names written and spoken after the last decade no longer have meaning and value because they do not result in action.  The votes and statements and of the so-called bishops after GC09 are startlingly meaningless and incoherent, so much so, they are evidence of unhealthy, illogical, dishonest, unbalanced minds.

I can no longer justify association of any sort with the national TEO/GC/815 organization. 

Scripture teaches us in no uncertain terms not to be yoked together with unregenerate unbelievers and unrepentant rebels. 

If ACNA and FCA continue in union, even indirectly, with TEO, and do not repudiate the actions of both GC09 and the ACC/JSC, especially the Continuing Indaba Project, and set TEO and the Western Provinces and the rebels within the CoE - Anglicanism will lose its credibility and foundation and any claim to orthodoxy.   

In the light of all this, for me, it is now necessary to take a ‘time out’ to pray and wait to see what the global body of Anglicans DO in response to these last two meetings and how the various global Anglicanism groups are joined.

[76] Posted by Theodora on 7-19-2009 at 03:28 PM · [top]

Glenlivet, single malt, yup…

[77] Posted by Athanasius Returns on 7-19-2009 at 03:33 PM · [top]

Time for me to go retrieve the Best Decompression Creature in the world.

I’ll be singularly absent and silent for a while.  ; > )

[78] Posted by Sarah on 7-19-2009 at 03:36 PM · [top]

This thread stimulated me to write a meditation on “Decompressing” here:

Robert Munday+
Nashotah House

[79] Posted by ToAllTheWorld on 7-19-2009 at 03:49 PM · [top]

Wonderful, Dean Munday.  Thank you.

[80] Posted by Theodora on 7-19-2009 at 04:09 PM · [top]

Was very productive today, lots of sorting and packing done. Tonight there’s a treat on PBS, the new Miss Marple series on Mystery at 9pm. So pleased with the new actress as Geraldine McEwan’s incarnation took so many liberties with the stories that I couldn’t watch them. I’ll curl up on the couch with a mug of tea and just relax.

[81] Posted by mari on 7-19-2009 at 04:40 PM · [top]

I will continue to give thanks to God for all the faithful people who can do no other than take a strong stand against the political radicals who have conquered the Episcopal organization:  formerly a gem of Christendom, and one which shaped and nurtured the faith of many generations of my family.  I will also continue to pray for all faithful Anglican leaders throughout the world to be given the strength and courage to respond appropriately to the outrageous actions of the Anaheim convention, which I believe will live in infamy in Anglican history.

As a post script, this will be the last general convention in which I take any interest whatsoever.  I no longer have even a minute interest in anything that this organization says or does.  May God save them from themselves.

[82] Posted by BettyLee Payne on 7-19-2009 at 05:05 PM · [top]

Attend church and adult education at our ACNA/CANA church, secure in the knowledge that NOTHING like the events at the GC will occur or even be discussed.

[83] Posted by APB on 7-19-2009 at 05:20 PM · [top]

#72, I hear you, I’m with you!

[84] Posted by Capt. Father Warren on 7-19-2009 at 06:21 PM · [top]

I’m going to Disneyland! Then I’ll decompress.

[85] Posted by Ralinda on 7-19-2009 at 06:48 PM · [top]

To #81, WHERE in the world are you that a MUG of tea sounds good?  We need ice-baths here!  (There probzbly is a correlation between GC09 in Anaheim and the local/Orange County extra-high temps!)

[86] Posted by Iona Pilgrim on 7-19-2009 at 07:09 PM · [top]

Iona Pilgrim, I’m in SW Michigan, and the nights have been rather cool, more like September than July.

[87] Posted by mari on 7-19-2009 at 07:16 PM · [top]

I spent the weekend with friends, completely away from the Internet and the news - and grateful that this time my friends didn’t ask me anything about what’s going on in the Episcopal church.:-( Sarah, your reading matter is well chosen. Isn’t “The Smile that Wins” in “Mulliner Nights” as well?

[88] Posted by oscewicee on 7-19-2009 at 07:26 PM · [top]

To Ecclesiastes 1:18 . . . I saw the Potter movie in the midst of Convention (at midnight, of course).  Dozing in the HoB the next day, I kept seeing ‘bad wizards’ in purple shirts . . . hard to keep the two separated . . . duplicity, political manipulation . . . you know what I mean!

[89] Posted by Iona Pilgrim on 7-19-2009 at 07:29 PM · [top]

To Dean Munday - Amen on all points.  The first thing I noticed about the ‘orthodox activists’ some 22 years ago was a lack of depthof prayer - deep fondness for the Church, but something was missing.  I’m pleased to say, I didn’t notice nearly so much of that among ‘us’ at this last Convention. (The Harp Player)

[90] Posted by Iona Pilgrim on 7-19-2009 at 07:41 PM · [top]

#89…and some similar liturgies, no doubt???

[91] Posted by TXThurifer on 7-19-2009 at 08:11 PM · [top]

To #91 . . . no, actually we don’t do Mass in latin any more, so no source for real spells . . . but I still have an image in mind of ‘men in purple’ pulling wands on each other, then opening my eyes and realizing ‘where’ I was . . . .

[92] Posted by Iona Pilgrim on 7-19-2009 at 08:18 PM · [top]

Read Stand Firm and giggle a lot.
2 Cor. 6:14.

[93] Posted by 2 Cor. 6:14 on 7-19-2009 at 08:43 PM · [top]

Decompress from General Convention?  Do the same thing I did when attending the last three as a deputy: go home to my parish and be thankful to God for the folks in the pews.  I shared with them this morning that nothing will change in the parish until they don’t allow me to preach, teach and practice the Historic Faith; and then I will be gone.

[94] Posted by Dallas Priest on 7-19-2009 at 09:36 PM · [top]

Thanks, Dean Munday.  I enjoyed the post—and the link to Hillsong’s “Mighty to Save” was fantastic!

[95] Posted by Johng on 7-19-2009 at 09:40 PM · [top]

Went to the local Benedictine parish today as I threatened.  I didn’t care much for the campfire-song mass setting, but I was blindsided by the lessons.  The first reading was as follows:

“Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasture!” declares the LORD.  Therefore this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says to the shepherds who tend my people: “Because you have scattered my flock and driven them away and have not bestowed care on them, I will bestow punishment on you for the evil you have done,” declares the LORD. “I myself will gather the remnant of my flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and will bring them back to their pasture, where they will be fruitful and increase in number. I will place shepherds over them who will tend them, and they will no longer be afraid or terrified, nor will any be missing,” declares the LORD.


Now just what is a good Episcopalian boy supposed to do here?

[96] Posted by jamesk on 7-19-2009 at 09:44 PM · [top]

Iona Pilgrim, yes, there was much more prayer and more joy among the conservatives than I have seen before (and this was my 7th GC).  Undoubtedly, there was a correlation between more prayer and more joy.  But I think there is an additional reason: Conservatives now know that they won’t/can’t win political victories.  All they can do is witness and trust God.  God is sovereign, and even “our” losses—and evil overplaying its hand—is encompassed in His Providence.  And that is rather freeing!

I greatly enjoyed your harp playing and the music and worship at the daily AAC Eucharists.

Robert Munday+

[97] Posted by ToAllTheWorld on 7-19-2009 at 09:57 PM · [top]

Revj, if you’re going to Nashotah, give my greetings to Father Klukas who teaches there. Tell him Dave in Grand Rapids says hello!
I have been praying for clarity for those considering how they exit TEC, that they have smooth travel…

[98] Posted by DavidSh on 7-19-2009 at 10:19 PM · [top]

I’m going to try to foment rebellion. Surely there are SOME Episcopalians in my area who will want to band together and form up an orthodox Anglican parish…

[99] Posted by Cynthia Gee(AKA CJ/goldndog) on 7-19-2009 at 10:57 PM · [top]


You are such a jester.

[100] Posted by Sarah Hey has a hidden agenda on 7-19-2009 at 11:05 PM · [top]

James K, I came across that reading yesterday as I was studying the lessons for today.  Our Adult Sunday School class is discussing them.  Smaller group than when we were doing the Nooma series. 

We were told today that no mention will be made of GC.  Three years ago only about 10 people were interested.  I think more are now, but no one mentioned it.  I told the powers that be that I vehemently disagree in not discussing it.  I let them know that we have information should anyone inquire.  But God had a really neat plan today…there was a good and better reason GC wasn’t important.

Our congregration just had VBS - “Crocodile Dock” this past week.  It was a huge success. We ended up having 40+ kids…most from the community.  Our service today was a sampling of it, with the kids singing the songs, etc.  What was great was hearing a bunch of kids yelling “Fear Not!”  God moved this week in our parish, and children of our future were touched and given a Godly foundation in Jesus Christ to build upon.

Got me thinking.  Maybe instead of GC, we should have sent the bishops, clergy and layity to VBS instead.  Seriously.

We went to the Potter film.  Have to admit we saw some parallels to TEC.  But eventually we both got caught up in the story and forgot.  Mission accomplished.

[101] Posted by The Lakeland Two on 7-19-2009 at 11:12 PM · [top]

goldndog - where are you?

[102] Posted by The Lakeland Two on 7-19-2009 at 11:13 PM · [top]

Beware Lakeland Two!
Goldndog is a troll.

[103] Posted by Sarah Hey has a hidden agenda on 7-19-2009 at 11:14 PM · [top]

Thanks #103.  Here’s praying they really do get into a good church.

[104] Posted by The Lakeland Two on 7-19-2009 at 11:15 PM · [top]

LOL… thanks, I think… but I’m not joking.
There are a sizable number of folks in my parish who feel the same way, too. The big difficulty in getting something like this rolling seems to be finding a priest who will go along with the idea, and motivating people to the point where they get up off their duffs and actually ACT. Too often, people get “all het up” when things hit the fan at Convention, and they grouse and grumble and even make a few grand gestures, only to settle back into their nice comfortable pews and do nothing until the next abomination comes down the road from 815 and rouses them again.

[105] Posted by Cynthia Gee(AKA CJ/goldndog) on 7-19-2009 at 11:17 PM · [top]

I’m in central PA, Lakeland Two, and I’m not a troll, though trolls do frequent this board from time to time. Some of them are real nut cases, too, including some neoConfederate loonies who are trying to use the mess in the Anglican Communion to draw people into their nasty little worldview.

[106] Posted by Cynthia Gee(AKA CJ/goldndog) on 7-19-2009 at 11:27 PM · [top]

The Diocese of Pittsbugh (the real one with Archbishop Duncan), may know of a retired priest that might be able to help in the beginning. Look for churches in your area that you might be able to rent space from. That is what we did in FW. Our church split in many different directions but a group of us were able to pull together and organize a service within 5 days of leaving our annual parish meeting. It can be done. We have been renting space from another denomination for just over 6 months. We are a happy lot now doing God’s work. We were lucky to get support from our Diocese - Bishop and churches.

[107] Posted by martin5 on 7-19-2009 at 11:55 PM · [top]

I’ll just wonder what the future purpose of Stand Firm will be. I guess it can continue on as the repository of all things anti-TEC while those of us still in it wonder what to do next. It wasn’t like that 5 years ago. I just can’t get my arms around the lead correspondent as an ex-TEC priest being sued by his diocese being a “journalist.” I’ve read the posts, the threads, et al and wonder what was the point of this up to the minute coverage. Just wondering. I’m sure I’ll find out.

[108] Posted by LA Anglican on 7-20-2009 at 02:30 AM · [top]

I’m going to try to foment rebellion. Surely there are SOME Episcopalians in my area who will want to band together and form up an orthodox Anglican parish…
[99] Posted by goldndog on 07-19-2009 at 11:57 PM

I’m in central PA,. . .
[106] Posted by goldndog on 07-20-2009 at 12:27 AM


Near what city?  There are resources which can be applied which are not nut cases.

[109] Posted by Scott+ on 7-20-2009 at 03:08 AM · [top]

RE: “I’ll just wonder what the future purpose of Stand Firm will be.”

The same as it’s always been?  How about that.

Getting news out to Episcopalians and Anglicans and creating a community for same.  Looks as if we’re succeeding in both arenas.

RE: “I guess it can continue on as the repository of all things anti-TEC . . . “

Only for stupid things TEC does . . . so we should have fodder for years to come.  ; > )

If you could get your church—and mine—to cease doing stupid and often immoral things, LAAnglican, StandFirm would have to cease operation.  Perhaps you will do so.

RE: “It wasn’t like that 5 years ago.”

Well actually, SF was much much more hard core.  Go back and read the old posts.

RE: “I just can’t get my arms around the lead correspondent as an ex-TEC priest being sued by his diocese being a “journalist.”

Matt’s not a journalist.  He is, however, “media” because blogs are now media.  He is an ex-TEC priest—these things happen now you know.  ; > )  And in case you hadn’t noticed, the diocese won their lawsuit and took the [now empty] property.  Now Matt is in a larger church with more people. 

RE: “I’ve read the posts, the threads, et al and wonder what was the point of this up to the minute coverage.”

Simple—so people like you and others could read it.  As you admit . . . you did. 

SF’s mission then, was a success.  To bypass the lying media machinery of TEC—of yours and my and Greg’s and Jackie’s church—and make certain that actual news got to TEC parishioners.

Now I have a question for you.

Why so bitter and angry, LA Anglican?  What has StandFirm ever done to you?

[110] Posted by Sarah on 7-20-2009 at 07:38 AM · [top]

How about decompressing a little with a laugh:

Episcopal bishops voted Thursday to allow the blessing of same-sex unions just a day after they okayed gay bishops. It didn’t end there. Clergy must now enter the sanctuary dressed as either a fireman, a cop, an Indian chief or a construction worker.

[111] Posted by robroy on 7-20-2009 at 08:00 AM · [top]

We had a wonderful Sunday, unusually well attended for July in New Orleans. A healing prayer team was in from Virginia. The prayer area we use during Communion was absolutely packed. Several people received instant healing. God was praised. People were fed. I’m taking five weeks off to pray, ponder and rest up.

[112] Posted by JerryKramer on 7-20-2009 at 08:04 AM · [top]

I’m in the south-central part of PA, west of Shippensburg. There’s St. Michael’s Reformed Episcopal Church in Enola, but it’s a bit of a drive, and I’m in no way a Calvinist.

[113] Posted by Cynthia Gee(AKA CJ/goldndog) on 7-20-2009 at 08:35 AM · [top]

Oh, and Martin, how would I get in touch with Archbishop Duncan? I’m a laywoman, and while I know a little bit about theology, I know zilch about church organization. You can write me privately at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address), and thank you for trying to help.

[114] Posted by Cynthia Gee(AKA CJ/goldndog) on 7-20-2009 at 08:40 AM · [top]

I’m taking five weeks off to pray, ponder and rest up.

Now that’s what I call decompression! Fr. Kramer, rest well. God will speak to you.

[115] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 7-20-2009 at 08:57 AM · [top]

goldndog..and this is exactly the same problem every group has had…Episcopalians like to sit in the back of churches,they like to complain in small groups and then they like to go back to their church and continue as if all were normal (they have vented their displeasure so now they go on about more important matters)..perhaps where something has actually been accomplished there have been a few people who just can’t get over it and they have pushed on (with or without others) and with their momentum others have come of the big “problems” that I have encountered are priests and parishioners who say/think..I just don’t have that much energy/time left in my life(to start over?) reality God has used people far older then most of the people I have heard with the above excuse, and that is just what it is…if it were important enough (their child was literally about to be run over and killed they would undoubtedly find the time/energy/strength to get that child out from under and to a hospital to heal his injuries)

[116] Posted by ewart-touzot on 7-20-2009 at 09:18 AM · [top]

To #97 - Dean Munday . . . I wonder if the intensity and sincerety of PRAYER . . . is a result of Dr. Peter (Toon) praying for us . . . He’d hate the idea, but I wonder . . . (for those uninformed, Dr. Toon went to be with Our Lord April 25th this year.)

[117] Posted by Iona Pilgrim on 7-20-2009 at 09:41 AM · [top]

Ewart {116}, you’re exactly on target—and people worry that if they bail out of the Episcopal church and join another part of the Anglican communion, they’ll just trade one set of troubles for another. The far Right fringe is every bit as unpleasant (though not quite as heretical) as the far Left fringe which now occupies 815, and they have been gaining ground in conservative Anglican groups. Many people in the Episcopal church would gladly leave, but they are afraid to move in any direction—they figure, what’s the good of getting away from heretics, if the alternative is to fall in with even bigger kooks? [link deleted—please refrain from taking this thread off topic—and please refrain from attempting to goad your old opponents—thanks]

[118] Posted by Cynthia Gee(AKA CJ/goldndog) on 7-20-2009 at 09:57 AM · [top]

So, it seems that the logical alternative is a grassroots movement, where parishioners band together, get a priest to celebrate the Eucharist with them, and form their own orthodox Anglican groups, but how would such a group find an orthodox Anglican bishop to oversee them?

[119] Posted by Cynthia Gee(AKA CJ/goldndog) on 7-20-2009 at 10:04 AM · [top]

[comment deleted—off topic—please keep the thread on topic]

[120] Posted by Cynthia Gee(AKA CJ/goldndog) on 7-20-2009 at 10:08 AM · [top]


Finding a bishop is not at all difficult.  Even finding one to one’s personal taste (hah!) . . . check out ACNA website(s), or CANA, or local orthodox dioceses (you’re in PA, you wrote?).  Ask a local Orthodox priest.  (Ask an Orthodox Priest - and go Antiochian . . . just kidding.) 

Since the formation of ACNA, and since GAFCon, I’ve noticed 1, a determined effort to regather the disaffected, seceded, generally lost, and 2, a lot LESS paranoia and complaint about STYLE (like, okay, you don’t like guitars, or organs, or the 1928, or women in ministry or whatever.)  There really IS a new thing happening, and YOU can be part of it.  Just LOOK!

[121] Posted by Iona Pilgrim on 7-20-2009 at 10:12 AM · [top]

“There really IS a new thing happening, and YOU can be part of it.  Just LOOK!”
I’ve been looking, and I can’t seem to find it happening anywhere within driving distance of Franklin County, PA…

[122] Posted by Cynthia Gee(AKA CJ/goldndog) on 7-20-2009 at 10:16 AM · [top]

#21   How about the whole “Rivival in Belfast” C.D. by Robin Mark, especially the Days of Elijah  I have briefed two of my team Churches, and plan to support the Anaheim statement.  Watched The King and I Saturday night and the new Harry Potter yesterday.  Be faithful, there is still work to do and at least 7,000 that have not bowed their knees to Ba al.

[123] Posted by Soy City Priest on 7-20-2009 at 10:26 AM · [top]

Oh, I’m sorry, did y’all say “decompress” or “decontaminate”?

[124] Posted by Passing By on 7-20-2009 at 10:29 AM · [top]

A wonderful, unseasonably cool weekend.  Saturday went for a morning ride around the farm on my ancient hunter, Deputy.  That evening, at watched a terrific 20-goal polo match between a local team and a visiting one from South Africa, complete with a marvelous dinner and open bar (endless Veuve Cliquot!) under the marquee, in benefit of our local land conservancy.  Sunday attended lovely Rite I service at Apostles’ Anglican Church in Lexington and then caught the tail end of Morning Prayer back at my home parish, St. Andrew’s Anglcian (our rector is on vacation, and I hate to forego Communion) in Versailles. Then pruning the mimosa by the back porch and spraying thistles and poison ivy and taking Gunner, our Viszla/German Shorthair cross for a walk. Dinner with friends at their farm.
Of course I couldn’t wait to log onto StandFirm as soon as I got to the office this morning!

[125] Posted by evan miller on 7-20-2009 at 10:30 AM · [top]

just discovered that +Rowan is on Facebook.  It’s possible to send him (or at least his underlings) a personal message - I just did and it made me feel good, even if he never reads it.

[126] Posted by no longer NH Episcopalian on 7-20-2009 at 10:46 AM · [top]

I bet the South Africans won if their horses were not too jet lagged, marvelous competitors,

[127] Posted by sandraoh on 7-20-2009 at 11:28 AM · [top]

Actually, the game was a tie at the end of last chukker with the local team managing a goal in the overtime to win 11 - 10.  If I recall correctly though, the south Africans led most of the match.

[128] Posted by evan miller on 7-20-2009 at 11:32 AM · [top]

OK, goldndog.  If you want to find a place, you will have to do some legwork. 

I went to the Common Cause/ACNA site.

I see see only two churches that might be somewhere “near” (kinda) you:

Somerset Anglican Fellowship in Somerset.
St. Michaels RE (Reformed Episcopal) in Enola.
also St Mary Orthodox Church in Chambersburg PA might be an option for spiritual food or another church with a more biblical foundation than what you have found in the past.

I suggest that you contact one or both of the CC/ACNA churches.  Contact info can be found by that site or Googling them.  This you can do.  Ask them if there is anyone near you interested in starting a church or a group meeting.  The priest of either congregation may be willing to help you get started, maybe come and celebrate communion with you all until you get more established. 

If you are really interested - start it.  Don’t wait for someone else to do it for you.  One of the reasons TEC is in the place that it is is that others wait for someone else to do the job.  Maybe God is asking YOU to be the faithful servant and start one in your area.  Pray and see where God is leading you.

[129] Posted by The Lakeland Two on 7-20-2009 at 11:44 AM · [top]

Anglican Church in North America
1001 Merchant Street
Ambridge, PA 15003-2381

Phone:  724-266-9400

[130] Posted by Connie Sandlin on 7-20-2009 at 11:56 AM · [top]

Thanks, Lakeland.  Somerset sounds perfect, but Somerset is 150 miles away, and our car is old enough to vote—until we get a new one, we can’t drive that far every Sunday. I have already been in contact with St. Mary’s, they have a nice priest and are doctrinally sound, sothey remain a possibility—but changing denominations altogether is a BIG leap. Maybe we could MOVE to be closer to a good Anglican parish, though.

[131] Posted by Cynthia Gee(AKA CJ/goldndog) on 7-20-2009 at 11:56 AM · [top]

Now, Evan [125] that sounds like the perfect weekend. Gunnar sounds like a great dog, too - what does he look like? We used to have a Walker hound years ago, that we’d walk for several miles on Sunday afternoons after church. Those were the days—I sure do miss having a big dog, and a sound Episcopal church.

[132] Posted by Cynthia Gee(AKA CJ/goldndog) on 7-20-2009 at 12:03 PM · [top]

Off topic but has anyone heard anything from 815 or Thre Forrester? His 120 day consent period ended yesterday.

[133] Posted by ruauper2 on 7-20-2009 at 12:03 PM · [top]

Goldndog - remember that you can “supplement” by going to St. Mary’s.  If God leads you to change denominations, it won’t be hard.  But you might need some spiritual first aid that they might be able to provide until such time a better church home becomes available or you move closer.  These days you can look by internet to find the better options.

God’s blessings on your journey.

[134] Posted by The Lakeland Two on 7-20-2009 at 12:03 PM · [top]

LOL Sarah,
I’m not bitter or angry. Just wondering. SF has done nothing to me. In fact, it has helped me come to the point where I once considered myself conservative and no longer do so, although not a revisionist.
One can easily call any number of Anglican parties heterodox or heretical depending on your viewpoint: Anglo Catholic, charasmatic, Calvinist and now we can just add another. To some, it is awful that 2 gay people will be blessed. I don’t like it. May not stick around for it. But to others, like me, it is awful to worship a piece of bread. I just don’t worship at those parishes.
So I guess I’ll just worship at my parish where neither mentioned above will happen. For now.
So, not angry. Just wondering what Stand Firm means now in this day.
As for Matt, it matters not that he won. And I guess you’re right that he’s not a journalist but a blogger even though as a blogger he “reports.”

[135] Posted by LA Anglican on 7-20-2009 at 12:07 PM · [top]


Gunner is built more like his Viszla mother, but bigger, like his German Shorthair father.  He’s 7 years old and about 63 lbs.  He jas the short, sleek coat one would expect.  It’s dark brown (liver) colored all over, except for grizzled hairs around his muzzle, some on his chest, and a few white hairs around his toes.  Looks a bit like a sea lion or otter - that sleek.  He has a long, houndy, head with prominent occipital bone and longish ears. Tail docked to 9”. We think he’s beautiful.  He’s also a great snuggling bed dog.

[136] Posted by evan miller on 7-20-2009 at 12:36 PM · [top]

I hope you get another big dog, Goldendog.  I’ve always believed working breeds make the best companions, although mutts are mighty fine in that regard, I’ve heard.  Hybred vigor, and all that.  Hounds and bird dogs for me though.

[137] Posted by evan miller on 7-20-2009 at 12:39 PM · [top]

For those of you looking for a suitable parish in which to land:  Contrary to what the PB says, it is possible for the lone individual to have a personal relationship with God, it is just hard and lonely.  If you have to take time out from public worship for a season, don’t neglect to read you Bible, meditate on it and pray. Stay connected with like minded Christians, if only through Stand Firm and/or T19. Pray that God will lead you to a new fellowship group; network and receive help from people who have been down this road before.  God wants you in fellowship with other believers; in His time He will help you find the place He wants you to be.  Frances Scott

[138] Posted by Frances S Scott on 7-20-2009 at 12:39 PM · [top]

Gunnar sounds wonderful. I love “houndy” dogs, too. Our hound, Ginny, was a bed dog, too—the only trouble was, she liked to take her share of the bed out of the middle!
Hoping we can get a hound puppy this Christmas—we’ve been dogless for WAY too long.

[139] Posted by Cynthia Gee(AKA CJ/goldndog) on 7-20-2009 at 12:54 PM · [top]

Thanks, Lakeland, I’ve been supplementing at a nearby Catholic church—the priest there is a great guy,and he’s aware that I am an Episcopalian, but he told me I could go ahead and recieve communion at his church if I wanted to. I wish I didn’t have problems with so much of the Catholic doctrine.

[140] Posted by Cynthia Gee(AKA CJ/goldndog) on 7-20-2009 at 12:59 PM · [top]

Frances, I think you’re saying words (#138) a lot of us may need to hear. I do think that the “ministry resources” page at SF could be a big help to those who are feeling isolated and I hope people will contribute to it.

[141] Posted by oscewicee on 7-20-2009 at 12:59 PM · [top]

He is.  I’m sure Ginny was too and that you all miss her as I will Gunner when he’s no longer with us.  Here’s hoping Santa brings you the perfect puppy.

[142] Posted by evan miller on 7-20-2009 at 01:03 PM · [top]

“Contrary to what the PB says, it is possible for the lone individual to have a personal relationship with God”

You know, I think that it was the PB’s statement on the “heresy” of personal salvation, moreso that gay marriage or ordination or any of the other cr** that has come down from 815, that has finally sealed it for me. I can put up with a lot, but not that. The woman is preaching the direct antithesis of the Gospel.

[143] Posted by Cynthia Gee(AKA CJ/goldndog) on 7-20-2009 at 01:05 PM · [top]

goldndog,  the priest may be a great guy but he is in serious error if he is encouraging you to take communion.  There may be pastoral reasons in the event of an emergency but in your situation I doubt those would apply.  So continue to attend but please graciously decline the offer. 

And priests like this drive me batty.  They mistake clear adherence to doctrine as some kind of unkindness that must be avoided if it makes anyone feel bad.  Communion is not like candy given out at a kid’s birthday party.  It is not cruel or unfair to tell some people they just are not allowed to have any.

[144] Posted by Paula Loughlin on 7-20-2009 at 01:15 PM · [top]

Just sent you an e-mail.

[145] Posted by martin5 on 7-20-2009 at 01:26 PM · [top]

To Lakeland, goldndog, and Paula,

I’ve been at an RC parish for a decade (more or less since Philadelphia GC).  They asked me to communicate.  I would never have been so bold.  It’s been healing; if thepriests say something stupid (and several have) it’s the Bishop of Rome’s problem.  But our wonderful pastor, who first asked me to communicate, said ‘you Anglicans have more respect for the Sacrament than my own people’ - to which I did NOT reply, well, who’se fault is that! 

I have continued to communicate, NOT because I have any interest or intention of joining Rome, but because Jesus is Present, and this household is gracious enough to offer, and recognize that HE IS (somewhat) bigger than our present economies. 

I’d rather be with Anglicans; I’d rather be with a liturgy that does more than go through the quickest motions and ‘pass out the cookies’ which unfortuneately is how Rome sometimes feels.  But HE is faithful and Present, and that’ll do during THIS pilgrimage!  smile

[146] Posted by Iona Pilgrim on 7-20-2009 at 01:29 PM · [top]

Iona—I went through 6 and a half months of cathechism before recieving Communion in the Catholic church. Do you think I should’ve just said I didn’t need that? Many others have done what I did. I speak only as a layman, but please consider either becoming a full Catholic or at the least don’t recieve at this church until you make up your mind and do the process. Otherwise, as people are discussing here, start a new Angliacn parish.
  And BTW, I agree some Catholics are way too cavalier about the Eucharist—but that doesn’t change what you should or shouldn’t do. Dave

[147] Posted by DavidSh on 7-20-2009 at 01:42 PM · [top]

Iona, with all due respect you are wrong to communicate in the Catholic Church if you are not Catholic. And the priest who encourages your error no matter how generous his intent is also wrong.  Good people can be wrong so I am not implying anything about his personal quality.

If you have questions about this teaching I am sure you can consult a cathecism.  I do appreciate your respect for the sacrament and understand how one is drawn to the real presence.  But that does not make what you are doing right. 

And I think someone who is Eastern Orthodox would say the same about a non Orthodox receiving communion in their church.

[148] Posted by Paula Loughlin on 7-20-2009 at 01:45 PM · [top]


Alleluia!!!  That’s great Fr. Jerry+.  Glad you could begin your sabbatical that way.  I hope that you will indeed be able to hear the still small voice of Our Lord in that time.  Blessings in that and in the path carved out for you.

[149] Posted by TXThurifer on 7-20-2009 at 01:49 PM · [top]

Hey folks—I’d rather the thread not move to whether someone should or should not take communion in the RC church.  I have my opinions on that, but this decompress thread is not the place.

RE: “As for Matt, it matters not that he won.”

Um, LA Anglican—as I said above, he did not win.  The diocese won.

RE: “Just wondering what Stand Firm means now in this day.”

Well, hopefully you now have a better idea of that. 

I wish you good fortune in your own decisions.  There are numerous people in TEC who are pondering.

[150] Posted by Sarah on 7-20-2009 at 02:11 PM · [top]

Sorry, Sarah. Didn’t mean to sidetrack the thread—again.
Honestly, though—if it weren’t for the part about being separated from God for eternity and ending up in Hell, sometimes I think it would just be easier to be a heathen.

[151] Posted by Cynthia Gee(AKA CJ/goldndog) on 7-20-2009 at 02:16 PM · [top]

Martin5—I’m having mailbox difficulties, apparently. I’ll keep watching for your email.

[152] Posted by Cynthia Gee(AKA CJ/goldndog) on 7-20-2009 at 02:18 PM · [top]

goldndog, well if you are gonna let little niggling details effect your religious choices there is not much we can do for you.  But you know, that does keep coming up.  Plus the whole bit about Jesus being true makes it hard to just wonder off into heathenism.

[153] Posted by Paula Loughlin on 7-20-2009 at 04:11 PM · [top]

“Plus the whole bit about Jesus being true makes it hard to just wonder off into heathenism.”

Yes, that does make all the difference, doesn’t it?

Of course, one needn’t wander too far afield in an effort to become a heathen, thanks to our current PB.

[154] Posted by Cynthia Gee(AKA CJ/goldndog) on 7-20-2009 at 07:49 PM · [top]

I watched some old 3 stooges videos.  Watching Moe slap Larry and Curly around was kind of symbolic to me.  Very therapudic.

[155] Posted by The Templar on 7-20-2009 at 08:51 PM · [top]


I am less than 100 miles away.  I have done a fair amount of discernment ministry with groups who are seeking God’s will.  I did it with a group who were discerning after GC 3 years ago. 

My ground rules are no political discussion as part of sermons.  Scott at traditional anglican dot net.  (traditional anglican is all one word)

I personally am Anglo-Catholic, but I will support any version of Anglican. I went to a charismatic seminary.  The idea is to develop worship community and then to discuss where to become a member.

Yours in Christ,

[156] Posted by Scott+ on 7-20-2009 at 08:55 PM · [top]

[157] Posted by marker580 on 7-20-2009 at 10:31 PM · [top]

Scott, I will be in touch. I’m going on vacation Friday, but in August when we return, I’ll talk to some folks I know, and if they are still interested in looking into forming a worship group (and I hope they still will be!) we could really use your help.

[158] Posted by Cynthia Gee(AKA CJ/goldndog) on 7-20-2009 at 10:34 PM · [top]

I sent you a second e-mail with someone who might be able to help as well.

[159] Posted by martin5 on 7-20-2009 at 10:48 PM · [top]

#149, hey Sarah,
your recent warning to commentators is exactly what we need on all sides and probably what I was alluding to in an inarticulate way in my opening salvo above.
And although the tenor of the place could be viewed as much rougher five years ago, the vast, vast majority of us were still in TEC. We can talk trash about our own but
now it seems that has flipped here and it’s open season on us. And to me, to read the threads and comments from GC 09 was just more of the same.
I would’ve loved to come down to Anaheim to say hello but there was no point. And I would love to support SF financially but it would be like pointing a louded gun in my own mouth.
What really, really bugs me about those who left is the Pink Map thing, for example. A great map. Why call it Pink? Am I pink? It’s degrading to gay people and non gay Episcopalians. But that kind of stuff is allowed and applauded.
why isn’t there a map about how fruitless ACNA/CP has/or is?
Why is it that here, in Southern California or in any non-South metro area, there is barely a ACNA/CP presence? And I really don’t count Continuing Church or REC. That’s apples and oranges with us.

[160] Posted by LA Anglican on 7-21-2009 at 02:30 PM · [top]

my previous post was somehow cut off but I said enough,

[161] Posted by LA Anglican on 7-21-2009 at 02:34 PM · [top]

LA Anglican, as one who feels rather isolated myself, I can tell you what I think is true for all of us - we are going to have to work ourselves to create the kind of church we want in our neck of the woods. If ACNA is not there, and you want it to be, talk to someone about ways to make that possible. If you would like a CP presence in your area, try to locate people of that mindset and see what you can do. Be your own voice for the CP approach. And pray.  Pray a lot. I mean this in all kindness. I am not in a CP diocese. ACNA is not here. We who are orthodox in my parish will have to find our own way forward. It does no good to blame the CP bishops or the ACNA for not being everywhere at once. They can’t instantly appear where there are no people willing to work toward establishing them. The CP, especially, depends on where orthodox bishops are. My bishop voted along CP lines at this convention, but he is not a CP bishop - what can the CP do about that? Nothing, I think.

And I apologize for hijacking this thread off its subject. I have decompressed from GC, thanks to good friends, a change of scenery and a few days away from the news.

[162] Posted by oscewicee on 7-21-2009 at 02:48 PM · [top]

162…yes…many of us, especially in ACNA, should ask ourselves if the Archbishop’s challenge to plant 1,000 churches in 5 years is our personal challenge…and I think for more than realize it or want to realize it…it is!!!  I have had to deal with a recurring church plant vision, myself…one that I tucked away…it’s resurfacing again.  Just because I’m a layman and a seminarian, doesn’t give me excuse to pretend that it would be impossible to commence until I am ordained.  Praying and discerning in the meantime.

[163] Posted by TXThurifer on 7-21-2009 at 03:35 PM · [top]

#160, As to the pink thingy, here’s an explanation of sorts.

Dunno about the other stuff.

You could always start an ACNA home church, you know.

[164] Posted by Matthew A (formerly mousestalker) on 7-21-2009 at 03:43 PM · [top]

LA Anglican-
It might be useful to see a map of ACNA.  I already know about parishes that weren’t on the list of 700 springing up- I’ve preached in one of them.  What you will see over time is likely more and more parishes being formed, and growth among those already established.  And it would be good to watch that happen over time.

I would agree with you that the “pink states” map was a little tacky.  But then, the commentary of many TEC bishops in recent days has been a whole lot tackier.  And remember, the folks who put it up here are mostly Episcopalians (all except Matt, correct?).

[165] Posted by tjmcmahon on 7-21-2009 at 04:07 PM · [top]

If there is anyone out there interested in a house church in the Eastern UP of Michigan, let me know. 
Have prayer book, will travel.

[166] Posted by tjmcmahon on 7-21-2009 at 04:08 PM · [top]

166…if I lived up there, I would help you start one!!!  The closest map of ACNA is the one on the ACNA/Common Cause homepage with all the blurry blobs across the map to show areas of ACNA concentrations.  Another good source is

[167] Posted by TXThurifer on 7-21-2009 at 04:16 PM · [top]

Two years ago, I incorporated a church and a ministry. Before that I graduated from an indy Baptist seminary and was ordained in a independent Baptist church (of course not recognized as Orders). I am working very slowly on a doctoral dissertation at a Baptist school. But I do not consider myself Baptist, but very low Anglican. For personal/family reasons, I am in a holding pattern.
I am in a orthodox parish now but not enthused which right now is better than a house church. Yes, I’ve contacted AMia, et al but why do I need them? I already have everything in place when the time is right. I guess I’m post-denominational now.  Since 2003, I’ve gone down a very different path than I would have imagined I guess in anticipation of ‘09. it’s ripping the Anglican out of me. but I’m not closing any doors, yet.

[168] Posted by LA Anglican on 7-21-2009 at 04:25 PM · [top]

Apologies for misunderstanding you, LA Anglican - I guess I’m still confused by 160 in light of your 168, but if you feel that you “have everything in place” then you are blessed.

[169] Posted by oscewicee on 7-21-2009 at 04:32 PM · [top]

Decompression this past Sunday morning after spending a lot of time on intercessory prayer and the logistics of it all, was to just let the Lord do the work.
  The Gospel “reflection” was to simply point to Jesus’ mission to us, and our response to Him.  RCL Gospel reading (Mark 6:30-34,53-56):  Jesus comes to us, and we should run to him.  Then we went immediately to Prayers III as suffrages and allowed a short time for sharing aloud petitions and thanksgivings, and then brought the Gospel focus back in:  Jesus “came to us” as I shared words of knowledge on what needed to be healed (severe headache, back currently in pain, shoulder pain); I asked who in the congregation might have those complaints, and 5 people raised their hands, and I invited to come (“run”) to the chancel rail to receive Jesus’ healing (three teams of two laid on hands and prayed for those complaints).
As always, it is wonderful to see the Holy Spirit at work especially when you think YOU can’t do one more thing.  And, it is a powerful testimony when Jesus let’s you know that even if you are still Episcopalian He hasn’t left you.
Next week I’ll take a couple of weeks off.  First, we draft our post-GC vestry statement, and then we have to bury an 11-year old.

[170] Posted by Rob Eaton+ on 7-21-2009 at 05:56 PM · [top]

#169 Oscewicee,
no need to apologize. LOL! I’m very confused! no, not really. just listening and waiting. but the wait may be over. thanks.

[171] Posted by LA Anglican on 7-21-2009 at 06:05 PM · [top]

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