Why we decided to homeschool

I can’t seem to open the links.  But I have homeschooled and I endorse homeschooling.  Even the one who was least academic (I was not sure she would make it in college) graduated this year just missing cum laude.  (In fact she was still complaining about missing it YESTERDAY since she was upwards of 3.4 and would have needed 3.5.)Anyone whom God calls to homeschool will receive God’s grace to do it.

old lady,

thank you, I think I fixed the links…

I’d like more information on this cult, please. Is there a packet you can send me?

Matt+, it sounds like New York is about 20 years behind Texas in homeschooling!  Our oldest started first grade (at home) in 1984 and about five years later people were beginning to catch on that teaching your children at home might not be such a bad idea.  Back then the main concern was: “what about socialization?”  And it’s probably still the case today.  Other than that we had a “leftover hippie” mentality to disprove.  (Some thought we were shunning institutions and trying to be counter-culture, which, now that I think about it, wasn’t too far from the truth!) 

Our boys are 31 and 27 today.  One graduated from college and works in the radio business; the other is an auto mechanic at Sears.

Jill,

You’ve got that right. TX is on one end of the spectrum and NY is on the other (though if you started in 1984, that was before the Leeper decision and was when the TEA declared homeschooling to be illegal). You have essentially no real requirements beyond teaching reading/spelling/math/citizenship. No testing… no reporting… it’s homeschool heaven.

NY, OTOH, requires you to submit lesson plans (essentially) and quarterly reports to your public school superintendent (including how many hours of instruction you provided and a description of the material you covered in each subject and a “grade” or other evaluation). They also require you to provide an annual assessment (standardized testing for older kids) at the end of the year and turn the scores in to the superintendent (and you can’t usually proctor the exam). Those scores need to be above the 33rd percentile or at least reflect one year of growth compared to last year’s test.

One must wonder what they do with the (roughly) 33% of public school students who score below that level?

As you might imagine, this means that homeschoolers in different districts get different treatment. Some districts still cause some problems. I read of one last year that rejected an IHIP because it didn’t indicate (and the quarterly reports didn’t document) that the kids were spending at least 41 minutes every other day in P.E. throughout the school year.

Back then the main concern was: “what about socialization?”  And it’s probably still the case today.

Just tell ‘em “That’s ok… I’m not raising socialists”

Blessings on you, Matt and Anne, for taking charge of your childrens’ education.  As one who, too, would have loved to send my youngest to a classical school (price is right, it is just more than an hour away!), I banded with other parents in a classical co-op.  I even ended up teaching Latin (a bigger joke than you think!, but I learned and so did the kids!).  Didn’t know there was “classical” out there for my oldest, but did bring him home for middle school and got some of that in him.  Unfortunately, my youngest thought the co-op was “school” and wouldn’t put in the hours at home, so he was sent to the tender mercies of the local public school system.  I am hoping this will be the last year - if I hear “climate change”, “multiculturalism (to 3rd graders, mind you, who have no idea where or when all these folks got to the the USA!)” , “environmental science” (huh?) I will scream!

He is so pressured to be “politically correct” he won’t wear t-shirts with military jets on them (although, in this county there is plenty of camo worn!).  He can’t play soccer at school, because somebody once hurt themselves, but tag football is played. 
Have got to quit this rant, my blood pressure is going up!
PS And his teacher this past year was a Christian, from the Assemblies of God church, and even she couldn’t mitigate all this $%^(*&&. 
Anyway, pray that I can bring him home next year, and we can try again.

Bless you all!

What we really need are more Christian schools.

We are about to begin our 6th year of home schooling—one in Jr. High, one in High School.  While we do a whole-books curriculum, Sonlight, I was just saying to Mr.Summersnow that if I was to begin again, I would have given more serious consideration to using the Classical Curriculum.  We both agree that the Classical model has much to recommend to the home schooled family.

Here in IL we are blessed to be able to home school freely.  It is a freedom that I do not take lightly given the current political climate.

I have never been one to claim that home schooling is the answer for everyone.  Each year we prayerfully consider the best place for our daughter’s educations.  I am grateful that for now the answer is still to school at home.

There are options to public schools besides home-schooling.  The Catholics have excellent schools.

What is the answer to the question “What about socialization”?

My concern is that I have seen some attach moral/spiritual superiority to homeschooling. In other words, a “Christian mother” is one who homeschools and a “Christian home” is one where children are so-raised. I maintain homeschooling is one choice among many for the Christian family. My three children, almost fully grown, have benefited in many ways from their public school education.

Matt and Anne,

Here in IL we have a program called the Classical Consortium: http://www.classicalconsortiumacademy.org/index.html  These are one day programs that allow home school families to send their children to be instructed for the day, then the parents continue to teach and support the program for the rest of the week.  It is especially popular with the Jr. High and High School home school families in our area.  I personally know a number of families who participate in this program.

Another program is Classical Conversations: http://www.classicalconversations.com/  This group has many chapters meeting across the nation.  There are several in IL and I see by the map on the website that there is one group in NY.

Perhaps you can be in contact with someone in either of these groups and investigate the possibility of starting a program in your area.

Home school paretns. as one who has coached little league baseball for 12 years, please take advantage of sports programs offered by YMCA, your local youth sports leagues, etc… that are open to everyone.

I have coached many home-schooled children.  I can always tell a 12 year old that has been home-schooled, and not ever played team sports.

The children who are involved in youth sports from a young age, and home-schooled, seem much more at ease being on a team.  Of course that is natural, but I strongly believe these children do better when made to participate in team sports.

I have also noticed that home schooled children in many cases, have the best manners, and comport themselves with adults in a most respectful manner, which I always appreciate.  They seem to be some of the easiest to teach, ie, they will actually listen to what you are saying.

Hi Summersnow, thank you. We do Classical Conversations with a group here in Binghamton…its a fantastic program

#10 -

I gave one above… but the better answer is “what gives people the impression that locking kids into a room for nine months with 30 other kids (who have poor social skills themselves) grouped by birthday and not ability prepares them for the real world anyway?”

By the way, just as an addendum, I think manners are much underrated by many of our young parents these days.  As a summertime coach, it has been “interesting” to watch children and parents over these last several years.

I can say, in no uncertain terms, that kindness towards each other, manifested by manners displayed by children and their parents, are, shall we say, declining.

I don’t think my generation has done a bang up job with these children. My wife and I have stressed this with our boys, and have been told by others that they each have “good manners” when not around us.  I hope so.  It seems that the 30 year old set, whose children I now coach, don’t seem to be as concerned with this.

Anyway, my original point was that home schooled children, as a group, seem to have the best manners.

Equal Rights for Philoprogenetives!

For too long, we have been oppressed and looked down upon. I call for an immediate affirmative action program requiring that the next four bishops selected shall have a minimum of four children each!

-RedHatRob
(baptized at St. Luke’s Episcopal, Atlanta)

A kid without manners is handicapped socially I think, they don’t know how to get what they want without annoying others, their friends parents aren’t keen on their being around and they miss out on the often spoken approval and good will of adults they interact with. Good manners are a life skill.

What is the answer to the question “What about socialization”?

Socialization is indeed a serious concern for children placed in traditional classroom settings.
Children are socialized by adults, not by their peers. Thus, parents with children in classroom education settings will need to make an extra effort to spend time with their children to teach them the social skills they will need. They should also seek out opportunities for their children to interact in significant ways with other adults and with children who were NOT born the same year they were.

Oh…

Was your question about homeschooling?

Better socialization is indeed, one of the distinct advantages of homeschooling your children!

note: This NOT a sarcastic reply!

-RedHatRob

#10 Toral1,
To answer your question, negative socialization was one of the reasons we brought our oldest home for 5th grade.  Our reasoning was validated when the principal of the school called us to discuss our decision, and unsolicited began to decry the negative cliques at our grade school and ask how she could help make that better for our daughter.  This principal is a dear Christian lady who is truly making a difference in our local school.  But her question served to confirm our decision.  Oldest has no desire to go back to Public School.

Now both of our girls have been home for several years.  Oldest is adept at organizing events for friends at our home or at the local parks, theaters, fairs, other friends homes.  She teaches a dance class, and both girls take Academic and extracurricular classes at our home school co-op.  They both participate in dance and theater classes after school.  They volunteer at our church with the younger children and with special events.

Both girls have friends of various ages and ability levels.  They email and facebook and talk on the phone.

They are deprived of much profanity, bullies, and discussion of R rated movies and television but I do not hear them complain about it much.  And as we do not try to hide the world from them, I know that they are exposed to such language and attitudes.

Many home school families view the cries of “socialization” as a myth.  I know of public educated students who are isolated and home school kids who are rarely at home.  In our experience of having had a child in the public education system for several years, I can tell you for sure that attitudes and self-esteem improved tremendously when the girls came home for school.

Matt,

I’m glad to hear it!  You might still want to email someone at the Classical Consortium.  It is a fantastic program—and would be well worth starting if a location could be found…;-)

(A small word—home school co-ops are always looking for space to hold classes.  As a former board Chair for our co-op, if any church can offer space to a program, please do.  With a clear agreement of terms between the church and the co-op it can be such a mutual blessing. Thanks.)

#9:  The Catholic schools here in MD use most of the same textbooks the public schools use, and the local Catholic school has a terrible bullying, no discipline problem.  I tried them for a year with my oldest!  Not worth paying for.  Maybe that is why so many Catholic schools are closing.

I’ll echo #7 - Don’t forget about Christian Schools! 

There appear to be several small Christian elementary schools around Binghamton, although I do not know anything about them.  However, Christian Schools International (http://www.csionline.org) is an accreditation organization and keeps lists of schools that meet excellent standards.  There are LOTS of excellent Christian schools all over the US.

We get many home schooled students coming into our Christian school at the middle or high school level, and they are usually well educated, well rounded, polite, have no difficulties with peers/social dynamics, and are a blessing to our community. The motivation to look for a Christian school is often the student’s desire for more peer interaction.

Good Luck, Matt and Anne, no matter how you go about making sure you educate those kids in a Biblical worldview!

Toral1,

We don’t homeschool, but we know a lot of kids who are homeschooled, and the socialization concern is probably the most over-hyped fear you could imagine. The kids we know who are homeschooled vary in age from 7 to 17, and with perhaps one exception, they all “punch above their weight” in the social arena. It should be the least of any parents’ worries if they’re considering homeschooling their child.

We have had a good experience with the Catholic Schools here and that is where both of my kids have gone K- 8th. 

Watching homeschooling for a long time now and as an educator myself, I see mixed results.  I see everything from well adjusted children who do well to children with serious social problems and are seriously behind.  I think one of the serious drawbacks to homeschooling is if a parent is weak in a subject, so will their child be - seen that several times.  I have some students who have changed from homeschool to classroom and have serious problems maintaining deadlines, being organized or being ahead in one subject and far behind in another.  So, these are all things to consider if you plan to homeschool.  I have good friends who homeschool and do a great job, I might add - so this is not a generalization.

For myself, I want my kids to experience a variety of opinions and know how to deal with things like a bad teacher or peers who disagree with them or having to raise their hand, take turns, have a Valentine’s Day party - for example.  Several of the games I teach in Biology involve 18 - 20 students - can’t do that at home.

I also know, that while I am very educated myself and am considered to be a good teacher, I did not want my vision of the world to be the only one my kids experience.  For example, I did teach my son Biology during his 6th grade year and this past year he took it under another teacher in 9th grade - I was glad he had two different perspectives of the same discipline.  I can teach him well - but I cannot give him someone else’s perspective. 

In addition, another adult’s vision of your child can really open your eyes - it was from the music teacher we found out our son was musical (we had not thought he was) and she suggested the violin.  He is now an outstanding musician at the age of 15.  I am thankful for other eyes/ears in his life.

I think the way to help our children deal with the world in which they live is to give them a solid faith background and continual teaching at home.  Then school them in a place where can express their beliefs and be safe(and a Catholic one isn’t a bad choice if it is a good school - though, like Matt I can see the attraction of a classical one) but deal with the variety of opinion they are going to meet in the world.  I want my kids to be able to defend their Faith in society as it is.  They do a great job.

The key, however, is the parents - if you make Faith a priority and express it in your life - so will your children.  If it is just a ‘Sunday activity’ then don’t expect them to carry that vision regardless of where they are taught.  They will model their parent’s behavior… and usually to a lesser degree.

On the socialization issue, there was an article in “First Things” several years ago which referred to a survey which showed that homeschooling families were much more involved in civic activities than comparable non-homeschooling families.

Thank you, Eclipse (#25), for your remarks. I agree with you that, “the key, however, is the parents.” I have seen homeschooled kids that range from well-adjusted, bright, and polite to painfully shy and socially awkward. Come to think of it, I have seen outside-of-home educated kids that turn out that way, too. The parents are pivotal on all counts! And please let’s not make homeschooling a new litmus test for worthy parenting.

Phil -

I’ve seen that survey and more recent ones like it. Homeschool kids (when grown) are far more likely to vote… to volunteer time for political causes… to donate time and money to charitible concerns… to attend church regularly… and on and on and on.

The problem is found in getting a good representative sample for such a study. To some extent, these surveys are self-selecting. The parents of the kid who isn’t active in the community are less likely to respond to the survey.

Fr. Matt: Did you mean for your post to go this way? Now the poster at #28 is making the case that homeschooled children indeed do make better adults—and thus my worry is vindicated that homeschooling has taken on the glow of moral and spiritual superiority. I have seen this A LOT when this topic comes up. Homeschool parent: “Of course it is not for everyone, but I have chosen to homeschool, and and and…” Public school parent: “My kids are great—why do I feel so defensive all of a sudden?”

What does any of this have to do with orthodox Anglicanism?

Isn’t there enough at work to drive a wedge between fellow Christians? Can’t we each work out these matters as we see fit in a spirit of mutual respect?

Our children have never been in a public school classroom and never will be.  We’re very blessed to have a classical study center two days a week, sort of a co-operative for homeschooling parents, christian and classical.  Matt, if a school is out of the question, you might consider starting a study center and I’d be glad to put you in touch with the folks who run ours. 

I also highly commend the great work of the folks at Veritas Press for good solid classical and Christian materials for homeschool families.

Help! My children have never been anywhere BUT public school and they are fine! Truly! Upstanding citizens and all the rest! Must this discussion veer in this direction? Time for me to bow out of this thread. But I hope those who homeschool remember that a little humility goes a long way.

Lift High:  But did you listen to the links in the original post?  I have, and I see it in my public schools.  Happening every day.  Those of us who don’t like what we are seeing are not judging you (heck, the public schools are not what they were when I went through them either - we could go down THAT rabbit hole for awhile!), we are just venting our frustration and looking at all the other possibilities out there.  Homeschooling is just one, as has been pointed out.  And those of us who have done it in the past know the pros and cons, and I think we are being pretty honest about the experience.  It worked for a season for one of mine, and didn’t for the other.  And “socialization” is not a reason to send your kid to school as opposed to teaching them at home.  Kids just need friends.  They can have those at school (or not) and they can have them outside of school (or not).  Methinks you protest too much.

With respect Lift High… you seem to be the one dragging it “in that direction.”

I can’t tell you how often I see this. Parents who elect to send their kids to public (or private) schools see any praise of another option as an indictment of their own parenting skills. Why? Must we all parent the way you choose to in order to validate your choices?

Read #28 again… I did not say that the survey proves that they “make better adults” - I actually cautioned people against reading too much into a necessarily questionable study. I do believe that it’s a superior option (when it is an option) but that doesn’t mean that “any GOOD parent would of course select this”. And if it was proven that they are statistically more likely to be successful in some area… would that mean that it was the ONLY way to go? Of course not.

My MIL started off that way. Felt that her daughter electing to homeschool the grandkids meant that we felt she was a bad parent. She’s really come around.

OK this really is my last comment—Crabby: I appreciate your thoughts, and while I do not think I protest too much, I realize that for some public school does not work out well. Best wishes to you and the others at SF as you discern the wisest path for your own children and families.

My husband and I started out with children in Christian school.  A financial issue arises, however, when you start to have multiple children in a (Christian or Catholic or classical or other private) school.  Homeschooling is not free, either, but it is cheaper.

It is true that some homeschooled children will not end up with a good education.  But there will also be some public schooled children who are not well-educated.  I would hope that at the least homeschooled children will learn how to learn.  So that in the future if they want to learn about something, they will be able to pursue that topic.  However I have experience with many homeschooling families of the Christian persuasion and other persuasions from Muslim to atheist and I can assure you that most families are guilty of TOO MUCH effort rather than NOT ENOUGH.  We don’t know how true that is until our children move on.  And when they do move on they are valued for original thinking because they do not parrot the same ideas taught in public schools, or any other schools for that matter.

I include co-op schools as schools not as homeschooling, by the way.  It can be a great option for families and people I know who take part in them seem to like them.  A co-op school is certainly a place which can be parent-directed in a way that other schools cannot be, but it is not homeschooling in the traditional sense.  (I am not talking about taking a class or two from others when a parent needs help with a certain discipline such as a foreign language or math.  In fact, but the time a child reaches his/her teens most families seek out help in certain areas.)

I am sorry that Eclipse thinks that homeschooled children are not seen by other adults who might make suggestions to the parents about directions that child might take.  Not true.  If anything, I think that people feel more free to make such suggestions to homeschoolers!  And our children are certainly out there in the community taking extra curricular classes.  My youngest was undecided until the last moment as to whether to major in college in art or music as she is very talented in both.  And yes those talents were nurtured with classes outside the home.

I would also ask Lift High the Cross to lighten up.  She is being too defensive.  When you are in a liberal state with liberal public schools who are out to brainwash your children (and I CAN tell stories), then you have to protect your children.  If her public schools are teaching conservative values, she is truly blessed.  And perhaps the parent who deserves the most credit is the one who keeps his/her children in public school and is able to share family values at home in a way that the children are able to make it through public school unscathed.  I know families like that and I give them a lot of credit.

It is not that homeschooling families are not showing enough humility.  It is just that we are used to defending ourselves.  So I guess you can say that we should lighten up and not be so defensive, too.  And in that vein, I will stop defending myself now. 

Lift High the Cross: Slow down there buckaroo!

You seem somewhat hypersensitive on this issue.

Truly, ALL parents teach their children at home, and as others have pointed out, the input of parents is decisive - indifferent to whether the children are homeschooled, public schooled or private schooled.

But is one not allowed to point out the advantages of homeschooling?

Even within homeschooling, there is a range of experiences and parental participation, from simple supervision of a video/online/or correspondence program all the way to parents who design their own curriculums from a variety of sources. Many parents, especially in the high school years, participate in a tutorial program where instructors with expertise in science, math, or languages do the instruction 1-2 days a week, with the parents coaching the other days.

There ARE problems with the public schools. They ARE increasingly hostile to Christianity. Secular neutrality is NOT neutral - it conveys the powerful message that God and religion are insignificant and deserve no part of “real” academic learning. These things can be counter-acted by diligent parents (as can other parts of the culture that we must all confront and deal with), but it is foolish not to talk about them - and various means to cope and raise our children to be godly men and women.

The goal of education should be to see to it that our children acquire wisdom and grow up to be godly men and women. The public schools are forbidden by law from mentioning or pursuing these goals.

These things MUST be talked about by Christians.

-RedHatRob

I meant to say that in choosing which way to educate a child, the best interest of the child should be taken into account.  One year I had one child in Christian school, one in public school, and one at home.  It worked for us that year.

I’m with you, Old lady.  Thank you God for living in a country where parents have some choice in the education of our children!  As this thread shows!  It’s making me forget the battles with my youngest that led to his public schooling!  Help!  (only partly kidding!)  You do what God leads you to do, and sometimes the hard part is letting go of what He wants you to let go!  Loved the classical curriculum, hated the battles!

My sister homeschools her four children and they are fantastic, however, my sister does have an undergraduate classical education as well as a master’s in education and subsequentially taught in both public and private schools around the country.  I think if she had one or two kids she would have been able to afford to send them to private schools and she could continue her teaching career.  But she has four and her oldest was being picked on because he is very smart so she decided to pull her children out and teach them at home.  It was an ideal situation to be in to homeschool.

It’s me again…RedHatRob’s buckaroo! I really should go but since my name keeps popping up—I’ll own my sensitivity on this issue, and say that my mothering has been impugned by certain homeschoolers—so I am touchy on the matter. I apologize to those who are simply making the case for homeschooling an do not mean to impugn anyone. Sincere best wishes to you and your families. +LHTC+

Some Parents furnish excellent home education programs for their children; some do not.  Some public, private, classical, charter, Catholic, Lutheran, or whatever, school teachers provide excellent education in their classrooms; some do not. I am happy for anyone who finds something that works.  My eldest hated high school so she completed all her requirements in 3 years and was out of there. The next two were through with High School in 2.5 years; they dropped out with my blessing.  The youngest took the GED and passed it with ease the middle of his 3rd year of high school. All 4 are well adjusted, productive adults.  All 4 are well educated, 2 have college diplomas to prove it. One manages a fabric store, one is in her 16th year of teaching, one has his own concrete construction business, one is an exhibit designer for a well known science center.  Bless the children, pray for them all and for those who attept to educate them.  Frances Scott

I would love to see the real “old schools” come back - like the Jesuit high schools in the 1940’s and 50’s.  I would send my boys there.  There is a good high school in New Bedford modeled on the classical Jesuit education and it was opened for boys from poor neighborhoods and immigrant families.  We need schools who will help parents raise their children to be healthy, good, polite, and strong Christian men and women.

+Matt, have you thought about opening a school at your church?

Yeah, Matt, don’t you think it would be cool to start a school?

Lift High does have a point - though I don’t see anyone on this thread putting down those who don’t homeschool - but it is a pervasive theme in church conversations when you have homeschooling families - “How much better the education is… ” etc. etc.  and if you have several families who all homeschool together it does almost become a ‘cliche’ kind of thing where you aren’t just ‘quite up to speed’ if you aren’t doing the same. 

So, while I think there are positives and negatives to both approaches, I think as with so much of our Faith - if we begin to look down at someone else or feel they should look up to us, then we probably need to rethink our approach…

For those of you who are homeschooling parents and are pleased with the results, do you live in larger cities?  Every year I weigh the pros and cons of homeschooling my two kids, but I worry that life in a small (population 7,000)rural community would not allow them to fully benefit from the experience.  I have neices and nephews living in Springfield, IL who are homeschooled and they love it.  They are connected to numerous networks of homeschooling families who meet socially and share educational opportunities.  There seem to be numerous organizations that provide enrichment opportunities in core curriculum areas, music and the arts, and PE.  However, my community offers very little to the general population in those areas.  There are a few other homeschooling families that I know of in the area, and these families are not interested in networking.  So how important to a successful outcome is the availability of other homeschooling families and access to cultural “extras”?

I think that the most important thing about homeschooling (or any other kind of schooling) has not been said.  We need to be doing what God tells us to do for our children.  If you are called to homeschool your children, then you should be doing that.  But God might be calling you to send them to Christian school or even to public school.  Perhaps we overthink instead of praying.  I am as guilty as anyone.  My husband and I did not ever pray about homeschooling until we got to the point where we felt we could not afford to keep our children in Christian school.  It was at that point we prayed about it and decided to homeschool.  But we actually never homeschooled more than two of our children at a time.  Was that the way it was supposed to be?  Was that the way God wanted it?  I HOPE so.

I think it is altogether possible that someone could be called to have all their children in public school.  God will protect them if that is where HE wants them.  And maybe the children or the parents have an important job to do for Him from within the system.  I do know that my husband and I had jobs to do from where we were.

Ardent Anglican in DioSpfld
We homeschool in a rural area.
You might (as we were) be surprised home much enrichment is out there, that you’re already paying for.

4H is a a great thing for us - clubs with other children not related by blood, not extensively age stratified, and not tied to the local ‘public/government’ school.

We also take advantage of Florida’s laws that mean we can use ‘a la carte’ services from the ‘government/public school’ - band class, and speech therapy for example…

We homeschool our kids (8,5,2).  We got started while living in IL and there were no other good options (very expensive leftist private schools, academically subpar RC school in a weak parish, and a mixture of liberalism and “ghetto problems” in the public schools.  We’ve fallen in love with it and are doing Charlotte Mason-style.

We live in a town with some excellent public and private schools as well as a thriving homeschool community.

Our reasons for continuing in HS are a hodgepodge of “conservative” and “liberal”.  Government is frequently inefficient at providing services, public schools can’t integrate faith and learning.  But even private schools are still schools—kids may be in a more positive (morally and/or academically), but they’re still sitting for 8 hours a day without fresh air, external authority figures pouring facts into them, little room for individual expression or blossoming of the spirit…

I’ll leave you with two closing thoughts:
1.) “When I think back to all the crap I learned in High School, it’s a wonder I can think at all.  But my lack of education hasn’t hurt me - I can still read the writing on the wall.”  Is this true for you?
2.) And when Aslan returned to Narnia, he immediately freed all the young children from school!

Hi Via:

Re:  High School

I learned a great deal about sharing my Faith in HS and learned how to stand up against peer pressure.  I also developed a great many interests that I carry on today - one of which is a love for history that I now teach.

Re:  Prince Caspian

If you remember the story correctly, the teacher was freed from the students at the school.  In addition - Lewis spent most of his life in ‘school’ if you will so he obviously thought it had some benefit…

Eclipse.

Lewis spent most of his time in college, where the students self selected and competed for the chance to attend.  He wasn’t in an age stratified forced attendance situation.

The learning to deal with peer-pressure and to witness are good points about entry into the government school system - after a good foundation in the Lord and an education that encourages independent thought.  We have sent most of ours to the government school as their primary educational resource after they’ve completed the ‘8th grade’ at home.  One daughter wasn’t ready for it at that time.  The other children have done well with that schedule.

#31- I’m glad your kids had a good public school experience and turned out fine. I went to public school and turned out fine myself.  However, we choose to homeschool and believe it is the best thing, bar none, for our kids.  This is NOT saying that you made a bad choice or that we look down on you for choosing public school. 

In our case, we see public school as simply harder to do than homeschooling.  Aside from letting the school dictate our schedules, choose our curriculum and have our dear boys far too many hours of the day, we also feel we would spend a lot of effort in undoing some of the things that are a normal part of the government schooling curriculum and boosting their actual education so that they come out of the program able to think critically.  Other families seem to feel that it is easier for them to use the public school and work doubletime on discipleship, social skills, and supplemental education after hours.  Certainly there are also families who for whatever reason don’t have the luxury of homeschooling, but for us, we’re simply spread too think already to even think of factoring public schools into our lives.

I have a slightly different take on home schooling than some here.  I think it can be a great thing for kids—particularly when parents or whomever is doing the actual teaching [sometimes tutors, other parents, etc] are avid learners themselves and are capable of understanding whatever subjects they teach.

I also think that socialization stuff is easily fixed—there are so many groups, clubs, associations, sports teams, etc, that “socialization” in a public school per se is not needed I think.

But I *have* run into some truly appalling home school situations in which the parents—who were themselves disinterested in learning and it showed—left their kids at home to watch secular television while they worked, and called that “home schooling.”

I’ve seen a lot of that and I am repulsed by it—there were also several levels above that that I still found slovenly and repulsive.  There was, for instance, the mother who brightly informed me earlier this year that she never graded her childs various worksheets and tests and such, because that required too much time.  She just decided if the kid had “put in the time and effort”.  When I consider the great efforts that teachers of mine made to carefully review and check answers so that I could then understand what I had not previously understood or answered correctly, I am indignant at such slovenly undisciplined behavior from a “homeschooling” parent.

How is the kid to learn if he is not shown what he answered incorrectly.  I’m sure this Mother, if confronted, would spiritualize it somehow in order to ease her own conscience, but that is basically lazy “teaching” [sic].

And the examples above are not narrow “isolated” examples—I have run across that kind of attitude and effort from many mostly Christian homeschoolers.

All of that begs the question as to whether our public schools are producing any sort of credible, consistent product—and across the board, with some exceptions—they’re not at all.  And to boot they are adding in the muddled incoherent postmodern worldview of the teachers and administration, along with deconstructing moral values and character.

The attitude that I have most respected amongst parents who have decided to homeschool is that attitude that it is *one tool in the bag* that they will use with discipline and confidence, child to child, and context to context, always being flexible enough to treat different children differently, and using an array of options, from Christian schools, to secular private schools, to public schools, to home schooling, to private tutors.  That array of options differs from location to location, as Matt points out above.

There have been occasions when parents have realized that one or more of their children would be better served for a time in a good public school that may be available, and I have no problem with that either.

See, and here I was, expecting everyone to be arguing over whether Eton or Rugby are better, and whether there are even any colonial private schools that can live up to a proper public school (in the English sense of the term) education.  Why do you all have to keep spoiling my stereotypes? 

One question I would like to kick around which has yet to come up—what about the career aspirations of moms who homeschool? Are there any who have managed to maintain their own careers which homeschooling?

I am old fashioned enough (and old enough, I guess) to believe that not every young woman who marries and has children needs a career.  There is quite a bit of work at home (and yes, it can be rewarding and fulfilling for some of us who proudly call ourselves “homemakers”) especially when you take seriously the responsibility for your children’s education. 

Now I realize that in today’s world that’s a little unrealistic for some but I also feel that more than a few families could make do with less.  I see too many GenXers and younger who sprang forth from their parents’ homes with expectations of living as well as they did with the benefit of their middle-aged parents’ (who’d worked hard and reached the top of their earning potential) provisions and pocketbooks. 

It’s all a matter of priorities, I guess.  And doing what you are called to do.  I was called to stay at home and mother, educate, support, intercede, and do all those lovely housekeeping chores!    So call me June Cleaver.

Lift High (#54)

I know of a few who have managed both. There’s no question that it’s hard work, but homeschooling takes fewer hours than many realize… some can do it in the evenings. I know of one or two who have no problem because dad is the primary educator and mom has the career. Of course it’s an entirely different calculus if both parents must work in order to make ends meet. Like Jill, I think that’s fewer families than think they need it, but there are many who do. When we lived in the DC area and started our family… there’s no question that it was a sacrifice.

Having said that… there’s no question that it’s a factor. But I would say that it’s the same decision that moms face when deciding whether to stay home with the kids while they’re young or continue on a career path. I think that those who do so (my wife included and Jill above) are following God’s calling and they should be honored for it. They sacrifice personal fulfillment for their children. Giving up their lives day by day rather than in a moment.

Mothers stand in the gap between “the world” and their children. There is no greater calling whether they have careers or not. For some (and this doesn’t have to include you) their local schools are too great a risk to their children for them to bear. In such cases, “I gave up my career” is the right and noble thing to do.

First Lift High is defensive about not homeschooling so she starts an argument that did not even exist here.  NOW she wants to pit homeschooling mothers against career women?  Sigh.  Can we not just say that there are different choices in life?

Personally, I have a perfectly good M.A. and always thought I would get the kids in school and then work.  However God had different plans.  Instead of all the kids ending up in school, I ended up homeschooling.  When my husband was laid off at one point, I decided to look for a job and promptly got a herniated disk which it took several months to recuperate from.  By that time my husband’s job situation was past.  Then I thought that after all the girls were done homeschooling I would look for a job.  But I got breast cancer instead.  Oh well.  So now I am old and do not want to know what my next consequence would be.  At any rate, I am so busy with other things, including elderly relatives, that as my oldest daughter said, she did not know what would happen if I did have to work.  Perhaps others of you are more sensitive to God’s leading, but evidently *I* have to get hit over the head with a club in order to notice what God is trying to say.

I do believe that God says different things to different people.  I am not at all saying that all women are supposed to homeschool.  I am not at all saying that no women should be in the workforce.  What God says to other women is between Him and them.  I am only saying what my experience has been.

I would like to give kudos at this time to one single mom I know who took on the task of homeschooling.  She had a profession that she could practice at a pretty good pay rate and worked the minimum hours she could to keep herself and two daughters going.  When the girls were small they had a babysitter when she was working.  The first has now graduated college and the second is just entering.  She can work more hours now to pay tuition. 

Dear Old Lady: Truly, I was just curious as to how the moms on the thread might react to the question—not trying to start and argument. I do think it is a question worth asking, as more and more young women are attaining high degrees of education and contribute significantly to the household income. And I am sorry to hear of your struggles along the way. I lost my own mother to breast cancer and so have seen first hand the devastation caused by that disease. Every blessing of good health to you. It sounds like your family needs you—I hope they have you for a good, long time. +LHTC+

[49]:  Like Lewis, I’ve also spent my whole life in school (though I’m still quite a bit younger than when he wrote).  I deeply value learning and truth.  Education as an institution I have some ambivalence about

My kids are young enough that I would be uncomfortable expecting them to be brave apologists in what can be the bombardment of an ungodly environment.  Deuteronomy 6 (“when thy son asketh thee…”) comes from an agrarian time when kids work alongside parents, but it does point to an ideal that parents raise their children alongside them, teaching them about the faith through daily life.  This doesn’t always translate directly into modern society, but I think homeschooling can provide some of these opportunities.  I think of this, rather than “witness” as a more primary responsibility of Christian family.

We need kids to learn how to be Christians in a non-Christian world (we often need to learn that for ourselves).  But we need them to know how to be Christians first.  There is a time to nurture, and a time to turn loose.  At my kids’ ages, I lean very heavily on the nurturing side.  Parents need wisdom in discerning when kids are ready to be more “in the world”.  Some Christians kids serve as admirable witnesses in the school system and have their faith strengthened in the experience.  Others don’t do as well.  And the age at which kids are ready varies greatly…

It’s been a few years since I reread Narnia.  I had thought kids were saved from school in one of the later books.  But at any rate, it doesn’t take much reading between the lines in Narnia to see what Lewis thought of progressive education.  And if Narnia isn’t explicit enough, we can always go into The Abolition of Man…

My reply to those raising the socialization question, “if we were any more socialized we would never have time for school.”

Our family are now second generation homeschoolers.

What kind of school reform would people here like to see?
Many commenters have said that public schools, or at least their local public schools, are not appropriate places for their own children. Is there anything your local schools could do to change your mind? (Given, of course, that a public school will never be an “all Christian” environment. Is that a deal-breaker?)

#61… actually I blogged my answer to that question a while back… if you’re curious, its here:
http://kessepha.livejournal.com/39436.html

Nothing would change my mind.