Episcopal Diocese Of VA Endorses Workshop For Way Forward To Instituting SSB

The diocese of Virginia has lost 11 percent of Members, 24 percent of ASA, and 19 percent of Plate & Pledge in real (inflation asjusted) dollars from 2002 through 2008. And yet they press on with blessing disordered behavior. Hide your children!  Statmann

Members of parishes who participated in the Diocese’s listening process last spring and summer have been invited to discuss their experiences. We will also discuss the next steps in our discernment for “the way forward.” One and all are welcome!!

Seeing as the general direction of “the way forward” has already been “discerned”, then although “all are welcome” only some will be heard.  The rest can vent, and then sit quietly while important decisions are being made by those authorized to make such decisions.

carl

This is known as Leeway, is it not?  The PB told Lee how it would be.  Lee caved.  This is, of course, what he wanted - SSBs.  Wonder how that cathedral pass-time job is working out for him whilst his old diocese goes down the Sewanee river?

Didn’t the PB herself reassure the Primates that C056

“does not authorize public liturgical rites of same gender unions”

in her letter of 07/17/2009?

I guess “the way forward” isn’t technically going “all the way.”

And of course, this “way forward” will have no deleterious effect whatever on the standing of the Episcopal Diocese of Virginia as a full member of the Anglican Communion. No way. Never happen. No problem. Really. Trust us.

Nothing to see here.  Move along.  Move along.

Wonder how that cathedral pass-time job is working out for him whilst his old diocese goes down the Sewanee river?

His old diocese is Mississippi, which is a part owner of Sewanee Episcopal University. Mississippi seems to be getting along fine without him and is stoking the fires hotter and hotter.

Historic Natchez Conference Continues Exploration of Slavery and the Episcopal Church in Mississippi
http://www.dioms.org/digital_faith/news/382

And he did attend Sewanee Episcopal University. His bio on the Diocese of Virginia website is a perfect example of damaging a Sewanee education can be and how embarrassing Sewanee has become for our local community and for attentive donors.

Former and resistant donors are confirmed and justified everytime they see this kind of Episcobonics.

While uncomfortable with the current “labels” in today’s Episcopal Church, Bishop Johnston is a vocal centrist, although he freely admits to being “on the Left” for the personal and societal questions besetting the Church, while standing “on the Right” for Anglicanism’s ecclesial life and present concerns.  Holding such positions simultaneously is testament to his commitment to a preeminent theology of community in the Church’s life—a community in which our commitment is to one another in the Lord Jesus Christ rather than to like-mindedness in our own associations, even as disagreements over the nature and interpretation of Scripture continue.

He can hold two opposing ideas in his head at once, indicating severe mental psychosis, a typical Episcopal malady and sickness.

Bishop Johnston was born in Florence, Ala., on October 20, 1958.  After attending public schools in Florence, he entered the University of the South in Sewanee, Tenn.

http://www.thediocese.net/diocese/ssj.shtml

We are watching for the next Sewanee educated bishop who delcares that they are “leading the way forward” into SSBs.

Members of parishes who participated in the Diocese’s listening process last spring and summer have been invited to discuss their experiences.

Notice how the “listening process” is itself being viewed as a step toward “The Way Forward”—there is no assumption that the listening process might lead to just saying no (which is what some bishops were led to believe when the “listening process” was first introduced at Lambeth).

The 11% drop in membership cited by Statman (#1) is deceptive because parishes often lag in pruning the membership roles.  The 24% drop in Average Sunday Attendance in such a short period, however, is extremely significant and, unless the trend is reversed (and there is not even the slightest sign it can or will be), will ultimately result in the demise of what was for a long time one of TEC’s most solid dioceses. 

It’s very sad, but it is what happens when you lose sight of the Gospel.

there is no assumption that the listening process might lead to just saying no (which is what some bishops were led to believe when the “listening process” was first introduced at Lambeth).

That is more of an indictment against the bishops than those who have been successfully pushing gay SSB into the mainstream of TEC. 

These are the same bishops who probably would have said that since we didn’t revisit the Lambeth98 1.10 prohibition against gays, then all would be well and the center will hold.

Sewanee’s then Chancellor Parsley said the “strong center held” at Lambeth08, then we had GC09’s “nuanced” pro gay legislation.

The Lambeth08 “strong center” acted like they really believed 1.10 meant something. Everthing they do and don’t do is an indictment against them for their refusal or inability to defend the faith once delivered.

We crave Anglicanism, but can you really trust it? It’s run by bishops!

What has ABC Williams done recently to fortify your faith in the mission of the Church Universal?

#7 says that Bishop Shannon Johnston of the Diocese of VA suffers from a “severe mental psychosis,” then extends this diagnosis more broadly by characterizing it as “a typical Episcopal malady and sickness.”

Are such ad hominem comments morally appropriate on a website which quotes, at the top left-hand corner of the page, the apostle Paul’s counsel: “Be loving in everything you do” (1 Corinthians 16:13-14)?  And which asks us, before we post, to “please remember Matthew 5:42-45”?

#10, I didn’t give him the confused mind- Sewanee and TEC did that. I’ll love him if Paul and Matthew tell me to, but will that be enough of a cure to help him regain his senses?

Surprise, surprise. 
2 Tim. 3:1-9
“But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9 But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.”

Yeah…heh I’m excited too. Bless those sins compadre and bless the virtues of sodomy in front of all those progressive families.
Maybe ice cream later if you are good.
All is Well…
Intercessor

TOALLTHEWORLD: Good observation about Members and ASA. It is quite common for a diocese to have a Member decline only about one-half of the ASA decline. Quite a few dioceses have parishes that carry Members who have long departed.  Statmann

Geez,  The Dio of VA is so far behind times.. the Dio of Wash. D.C. had their diocesan sponsored Workshop on same sex blessings several years ago when Ron Haines was bishop. I attended the workshop out of curiousity, and was appalled by what I heard and saw. The priest and his senior warden out of a well known homosexual haven parish in downtown D.C. led the workshop. All one sided views of homosexuality and same sex relationships being natural and morally neutral relationships. I sat there and listened attentively for about 15 minutes and then stood up and challenged their false teaching.

When you continue to compromise and commune with evil as TECUSA has done decade after decade, you end up with a weak, compromised, polluted, worthless message and witness.

Scripture says, ‘Do NOT give place to the devil.’

The longer I live, the more I understand, like Origen, that every jot and tittle in Scripture is there for a reason.
God speaks the same consistent Word from the Whole Counsel of Scripture: 
Worship, love, believe, follow ME, the Holy, True IAM, only - it’s the only safe way through this evil world and out of this world.

Re: #8, it must be remembered that in the Revisionist Dictionary, “Listening” is a synonym for “Reception.”

Floridian, from whence do you get the verse that “Scripture Says”?

While uncomfortable with the current “labels” in today’s Episcopal Church, Bishop Johnston is a vocal centrist, although he freely admits to being “on the Left” for the personal and societal questions besetting the Church, while standing “on the Right” for Anglicanism’s ecclesial life and present concerns.  Holding such positions simultaneously is testament to his commitment to a preeminent theology of community in the Church’s life—a community in which our commitment is to one another in the Lord Jesus Christ rather than to like-mindedness in our own associations, even as disagreements over the nature and interpretation of Scripture continue.

If we are all called to the mind of Christ (Philippians 2:2), would we not be like-minded (unless, of course, Christ were double-minded)?

We have a situation like this in the Diocese of Southern Ohio, where the bishop had put together an indaba-style focus group to talk about the reality that he’s moving forward on SSB’s.  One of my associates has a worm’s-eye-view of what’s going on.  A lot of this stuff is breaking, even as I write. 

Would it be okay to send a couple of links to my blog for the good people at StandFirm?

I’m shocked!  Shocked!  But there was no reason for the CANA churches to leave the diocese (I’m sorry - “The Diocese”) because it was so moderate, and nothing like this would ever happen there!

Br_er Rabbit,
There are many verses that speak to this because all Scripture is of One Mind on sin and evil, but here is the one I quoted: Ephesians 4:27

More on this topic:
James 4:7
II John 8-11
Ephesians 5:7
Hebrews 12:15-16
I Corinthians 5:11-20

To correct and discipline those in the church (and in our families) who have fallen into sin and error if they do not repent is a hard thing to do, but it is necessary to preserve the truth.  We are to set them apart after teaching and explaining their error until they repent.  This should be done in love. 

Jesus did not teach us to imprison, burn, torture or decapitate them as mohammedans and hindus and other pagans do or as the church once did.  Jesus did not approve of this. (Luke 9:55; Matthew 26:51-52; Ephesians 6:12; II Corinthians 10:4).

It is hard to discipline for other reasons:
- we love the person/s and care about them. 
- we are compromised ourselves and have lost our holy boldness and the righteous indignation and hatred of sin. 

For the Christian church and family to work as Christ intended must remain perpetually penitent, watchful lest we enter into temptation and fall into sin that darkens our spiritual and moral sight and ability to exercise leadership in the church.

To survive as Christians in this world, we have to continually watch ourselves and each other, resist and never compromise with evil, renounce, repent, resist all sin and abhor and hate its effects on our whole beings, body, soul (mind, will, emotions) and spirit. 

Accountability and transparency are vital. Unfortunately, church leaders are often isolated and separated from the rest of humanity and do not have these two safeguards in operation to protect them from the enemy within and without. 

From what we have seen in the last several years, frequent computer examinations, drug tests, chaperones and accountability groups would be helpful to help our church leaders maintain the purity necessary to minister in the power of God effectively and credibly.

Priests, pastors and church leaders should not be put on pedestals, given power without transparency and accountability and idealized, separated from the rest of the flock.
 
Acts 2:42 relationships and groups should also be James 5:16 groups.  We must “confess your faults (temptations, weaknesses, conflicts, dilemmas, etc.) and pray for one another, that you may be healed.”
See also:
Ephesians 5:21
1 Thessalonians 5:11
Hebrews 3:13
Hebrews 10:24
Proverbs 27:17
1 Peter 5:5
1 John 1:7
Ephesians 4:32
1 John 4:12

“Listening process” = “Persuation process”

“Listening” is the process the other side is to go through so that you can inform them of what you have decided to do, without interruption.  It is often accompanied by power point slides.

The Listening Process ended some time ago. There’s no longer anything to listen to except the same tired, old shallow arguments.

If it’s inappropriate for me to do this, let me know. 

Bp. Briedenthal of Southern Ohio is moving forward with SSB’s as of Easter, 2010. 

http://elderoyster.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/breaking-ssbs-theyre-heeeeeeeereeee/

Fr. David Bailey, a member of the “focus group” that our bishop put together prior to our convention regarding SSB’s reports from inside of the focus group (report on the 2nd focus group meeting is upcoming).  There was nothing he could do to stop this, but he did stand up tall and clearly for the Gospel of Jesus Christ. 

http://elderoyster.wordpress.com/2009/10/15/same-sex-blessings-focus-group-by-revd-david-bailey/

Other articles about this can be found here:
http://elderoyster.wordpress.com/category/ssbs/

Thanks, Floridian.

KJV: Neither give place to the devil.
NKJV: nor give place to the devil.
NASB: and do not give the devil an opportunity.
ESV: and give no opportunity to the devil.
NIV: and do not give the devil a foothold.
CEV: and don’t give the devil a chance.
NCV: Do not give the devil a way to defeat you.
Worldwide: Do not let the devil control you.
Darby: neither give room for the devil.
Amplified: Leave no [such] room or foothold for the devil [give no opportunity to him].
Message: Don’t give the Devil that kind of foothold in your life.

The Word for Today.

The only “listening” TEC is interested in is for THEM to do all of the talking, and for EVERYONE ELSE to do all of the listening.  They’ve proven that so many times that I’ve lost count.

The voters in Maine have spoken very clearly.  Accept their decision. ~ Cennyd

The voters at General Convention have spoken very clearly.  Accept their decision.

General Convention is trumped by the Holy Trinity who revealed His Truth about human sexuality.  Florida is a mere political oraganization with no higher authority than a voter.

General Convention is accountable to God.  They need repentance, penance, apologies, and restoration to all whom they have harmed, not least the homosexuals.

I can no longer support my Diocese of VA Schools alma mater which in being a part of the diocese has embraced the “new thing.”  This is a k-12 school and I would not want any child I cared about in this once wonderful school where I grew in the true faith of Jesus Christ.  This is all so very sad.

Is it true this conference is sponsored by Trojan, Ben & Jerry’s, and Demokratic Kommittee for 10 Year Planning?

<blockquote>The voters in Maine have spoken very clearly.  Accept their decision. ~ Cennyd

The voters at General Convention have spoken very clearly.  Accept their decision. ~ Vintner</blockquote>
God has spoken very clearly. Accept His Word.

Guess it’s not a “Windsor Diocese” anymore, huh, Bishop Lee?

Was it ever?

#26 Elder Oyster,

Thanks for the links, but I think that needs a post of its own. In particular, the money quotes.

The time for listening in this endless nonsense is over. They have no facts, no scientific evidence, only selected exerpts from the bible and experience.

#37 wrote:
“They have no facts” - true
“no scientific evidence”  - true
“only selected exerpts from the bible and experience.”
Sadly, they distort the Scriptures with the lense of their experience and sexualize every Biblical same-sex relationship.  David and Jonathan, Ruth and Naomi, Jesus and John the Apostle.

There is no sociological, scientific, clinical, statistical or theological basis for their assertions…so they had to go with the political agenda tactics… shaming, name-calling, intimidation, threats, etc.

As someone who has lived in VA for most of the last 20 years, let me echo and underline the tragedy of the demise of what was once a truly great diocese.  As Dean Munday rightly pointed out back in his #8, “It’s very sad, but it is what happens when you lose sight of the Gospel.”

The way the Diocese of VA has lurched far to the left since the departure of so many of its strongest, healthiest, and most orthodox congregations is a sobering, discouraging lesson indeed.  It all happened so fast that it left my head spinning in disbelief. 

For me, the most telltale sign of that rapid degeneration was the astonishing fact that the Standing Committee of VA actually voted FOR confirmation of Kevin Forrester, the infamous Buddhist and ultra-liberal “elected” in N. Michigan.  Good grief.  Even lots of traditionally liberal dioceses didn’t do that. 

So much for the vaunted tradition of centrist moderation in the Diocese of VA as representing the “Center Aisle” or “broad center” of TEC.  Alas, those days are gone, and humanly speaking, will probably never return.

“How are the mighty fallen!”

David Handy+

#39 and others, if you find the events in Virginia to be upsetting, perhaps this should be seen as a lesson about what happens when groups become more ideologically monochromatic.  I personally am glad that Virginia is becoming more progressive, but it is unfortunate that it had to come at the expense of a number of congregations.  It’s unfortunate for two reasons.  One, it’s too bad those people didn’t feel comfortable at the same table as their more progressive and moderate sisters and brothers.  Two, it’s too bad because in leaving to form their more ideologically pure organization, they left behind their fellow conservative sisters and brothers who felt it was important to stay and witness to what they see as the truth in a church and diocese they care about.  If the CANA congregations had stayed, they could have prevented any shift in diocesan policies and probably could have caused a more conservative bishop to be elected.  And they were certainly not being persecuted and wouldn’t have been forced to accept any changes in their congregations.  That being said, it’s understandable that conservatives sometimes get burned out from the fighting and want to go do their own thing.  People who are more liberal than their churches, dioceses, seminaries, national church, and global communion also sometimes feel that way, whether they are Episcopalians, Catholics, Baptists (substitute state conventions for dioceses), or whatever.

And one clarification.  I was told personally by one of the people helping organize this workshop that this does not have the official support of the diocese.  For what it’s worth, this person said, “If only that really were the case.”  It is merely a group of people getting together to try to influence diocesan policies.

Actually, Chase #40, its important for another reason: because without those whom you label “conservative” (actually just christians who believe the bible), this diocese is doomed. The churches of Virginia survived on their contributions, resources, effort and prayers

These faithful christians are now shaking off your dust from their sandals and going elsewhere. This is not a matter of minor differences that separate e.g. baptists from methodists, but a matter of obedience to the Lord in the most fundamental matters.

And one clarification.  I was told personally by one of the people helping organize this workshop that this does not have the official support of the diocese.  For what it’s worth, this person said, “If only that really were the case.”  It is merely a group of people getting together to try to influence diocesan policies.

Nice try. This is condoned by all liberal clergy from KJS down through +Lee and many others. They bear the responsibility and all their attempts to try to hide from it will fail. Through their foolishness they have driven faithful Christians, congregations and now even whole dioceses to seek shelter elsewhere: in alternative oversight from foreign primates, and more recently in ACNA. Don’t think that this tsunami has spent its force - it has hardly started. The liberals and their sympathisers have condemned TEC to a slow but certain death.

Beautifully succinct, MichaelA.

#42 Chase at VTS,
You certainly are at the Right, err Left, Seminary preaching these views. I don’t agree with a thing you say. You view this as unfortunate? “Unfortunate that it had to come at the expense of a number of congregations” Good grief man, it appears you have no understanding, or you refuse to acknowledge the actual happenings of this mess brought to the church by a very few not interested in the objective truth, the scientific evidence, and the common good,or the consequences, only interested in their being.

This is why we (St. Margarets Anglican Church - Woodbridge, VA) and the rest of the “gang of Eleven” left….

Live free or die…

#7

ly is testament to his commitment to a preeminent theology of community in the Church’s life—a community in which our commitment is to one another in the Lord Jesus Christ rather than to like-mindedness in our own associations, even as disagreements over the nature and interpretation of Scripture continue.

Acts 4.32:  All the believers were one in heart and mind
Rom 12.2:  Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.  then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is - his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Eph 4.22-24:  You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, whihc is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; (23) to be made new in the attitude of your minds; (24) and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. 

But, then, being of one mind is tantamount to being sucked in to a cult and not being able to think for oneself (unless, of course, the singlemindedness is congruent w/ TEC?).....