March 23, 2017

October 19, 2010

So How Is The Inclusive, Open-Minded Left Coast Doing With 815’s New Gospel?


Augering into the ground.

This is the most left-wing part of the nation. The most liberal. The most gay-friendly. 

When you see these devastating losses—recalling that many of the losses for those dioceses which have merely lost parishes have not yet been counted on the church stats pages—you just realize that if the liberal activist 815 gospel can’t get off the ground in California, it’s just not going to make it anywhere. 

The numbers are simply staggering.

In California, we have an ASA drop from its highest in 2001 of around 11,500 to its current ASA of around 8700.

In El Camino Real, we have an ASA drop from its highest in 2000 of around 6500 to its current ASA of around 4600.

In Los Angeles, we have an ASA drop from its highest in 2002 of around 23,500 to its current ASA of around 20,000—statistically the least percentage drop, which I suppose is some comfort.

In Northern California, we have an ASA drop from its highest in 2000 of around 7900 to its current ASA of around 5600.

In San Diego, we have an ASA drop from its highest in 2003 of around 9000 to its current ASA of around 7500.

And in San Joaquin—where they have taken their statistical lumps—have have an ASA drop from its highest in 2000 of around 4600 to its current ASA of around 1000.  But hey—who could have imagined that there were so many [heh] fundamentalist right-wing neanderthals hiding out in The Episcopal Church in California to cause that much of a gap after their departures anyway!!!???

So all told, we have, over a ten year span, gone from ASA highs of around 63,000 to the current meltdown of 47,400.

The fact is . . . a bunch of liberal activist loons have acquired some collars and are hawking a product that nobody wants to buy.

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Sarah, we hear from the liberal activist loons who have acquired collars (albeit without a substantial theological education) that all this is merely the cost of discipleship.

But, it’s not like nobody wants to buy their product. There certainly is a market for cheap grace - the kind that affirms the behavior depicted in a Gay Pride Parade, for example.

Any self-avowed, practicing, and unrepentant sinner would want to buy some cheap grace and/or universalism.

[1] Posted by Ralph on 10-19-2010 at 08:23 AM · [top]

Augering into the ground.

No, no, no.  It is “getting prophetically smaller.”


[2] Posted by carl on 10-19-2010 at 08:29 AM · [top]

People are HUNGRY to hear’s God’s Word preached without apology.  “He spoke to them, and their hearts burned within them”.  They didn’t know it was Christ speaking the Truth to them, yet their hearts KNEW.

We were DESIGNED to be filled with God’s Word, His Love and His Truth.  Speak the Truth in Love to all.

[3] Posted by B. Hunter on 10-19-2010 at 08:34 AM · [top]

Theology aside: what’s the point?  You don’t need the church to tell you that you’re fine the way you are.  If whatever one believes is okay, you’re by definition not going to learn anything useful.  You can do political things more effectively through political parties and groups.  And why should you pay for any of this when the plate is passed?  Truly, why bother?

[4] Posted by RomeAnglican on 10-19-2010 at 08:42 AM · [top]

I suspect Jerry Brown will receive the call as soon as November 3 to turn TEC around.

[5] Posted by Festivus on 10-19-2010 at 08:43 AM · [top]

One read of these stats might be that the church chose to go from an embassy of the kingdom of God to a museum of Satan’s glorious revolution against the kingdom.

Pretty cleary, the church had thousands of folks who were not bending the knee to the surrounding culture.  They were purged.

[6] Posted by Timothy Fountain on 10-19-2010 at 08:47 AM · [top]

No one has ever needed a church to teach them how to be more secular. Anyone who wanted a church for spiritual reasons has left, or will eventually leave TEC. My guess is that some have left for the former reason, and others have left for the latter reason.

[7] Posted by Old Pilgrim on 10-19-2010 at 08:51 AM · [top]

Well, at least in our huge part of the state, 815’s message has fallen on deaf ears….aside from the phony make-believe Episcopal ‘diocese’ of the same name.  We’re growing, and they’re not doing so hot!

[8] Posted by cennydd13 on 10-19-2010 at 08:54 AM · [top]

But at least they’re living into the happiness.  rolleyes

[9] Posted by The Lakeland Two on 10-19-2010 at 08:54 AM · [top]

Theology aside: what’s the point?  You don’t need the church to tell you that you’re fine the way you are.  If whatever one believes is okay, you’re by definition not going to learn anything useful.  You can do political things more effectively through political parties and groups.  And why should you pay for any of this when the plate is passed?  Truly, why bother?

Why bother, indeed?  I work with a VERY liberal woman who is vaguely looking for a place to go with her family.  She wants a church that matches her politics but doesn’t want to go to the Unitarians (which would match her politics exactly) because it’s too much like going to a lecture on Sunday morning.  She has just enough vague spiritual yearning to want something “churchy” feeling.  But not enough to actually get out of bed and hustle the family out the door on Sunday morning or to subscribe to Biblical teaching. Why bother developing the habit of Church going when you don’t believe in anything in particular? (Except recycling, not shopping at Walmart & same-sex marriage)

[10] Posted by slanehill on 10-19-2010 at 09:03 AM · [top]

One should note that LA’s numbers at least are worse than shown, as they keep a bunch of paper parishes on the books.

[11] Posted by C. Wingate on 10-19-2010 at 09:07 AM · [top]

Tim Fountain (#6),

As a refugee from the Diocese of LA, you know firsthand just how sick Los Angeles has become.  Even so, there may yet be 7,000 on the West Coast who haven’t bowed the knee to Baal (literally, since Baal was a fertility god).  But they will eventually die out, leave reluctantly, or be expunged.

If TEC were a Fortune 500 company, and it had this kind of terrible track record, with horrific losses mounting from year to year and a constantly declining market share, who can doubt that the Board would step in and fire all the incompetent managers and institute radical changes in the way of doing business?

But carl nailed it.  For our “progressive” foes, this is merely the cost of being faithfully prophetic (sic).

But any day now, they vainly imagine, the tide will surely turn…

David Handy+

[12] Posted by New Reformation Advocate on 10-19-2010 at 09:13 AM · [top]

Here in San Jose we are trying to find people in the Bay Area and in Northern California who have left TEC.  We are organizing parochial missions in an effort to replant a vibrant Anglican presence in Northern California.  St. John’s is located in Orinda, just east of Berkeley, Amazing Grace is in Roseville, we are about to launch a mission in Los Gatos, are in conversation with people in San Mateo and in several other communities in the Bay Area, and of course my parish St. James is in San Jose.

If you read this and live in Northern California, please contact me.  One of the big reasons the founding group of St. James left TEC was to care for the thousands of people who left TEC in Northern California.

[13] Posted by Ed McNeill on 10-19-2010 at 09:16 AM · [top]

Not to generalize too much, but that would be a 25% drop in the region, which, if replicated in the other parts of the country, would mean that the 800,000 ASA of circa 2003 is now about 600,000.  I suspect that is about right, or if anything, a bit high.  And dropping.  I used to think they might level off aroung 4-500,000, but I’m now not so sure they can overcome their age demographics enough to stop there.  Because of the fixed costs of running a parish with a physical plant, they may have to shrink back to the major metropolitan areas.  Absent a change in TEC’s direction, of course, which, which it is difficult to see.

It also makes one wonder how much longer some of the smaller and still shrinking diocese will be propped up.  Certainly, it is embarrassing to admit failure and merge them into other diocese, but there is a point at which even TEC does not want to waste money for appearance’ sake.

[14] Posted by pendennis88 on 10-19-2010 at 09:25 AM · [top]

pendennis88 #14 visit “Not Another Episcopal Church Blog” (Underground Pewster).  Bishops are out appealing for more money to 815 as a way to help South Dakota’s Reservation missions and the people in Haiti.  Yet here in SD, every discussion of national church funding (still at 6 figures here) includes the caveat, “But we expect this to be decreasing.” 

TEC’s going to be the PB and a few friends flying around to hotels to issue statements and sue people - but pulling on nostalgia and tales of human need to wrangle the $$$ for this hobby.

[15] Posted by Timothy Fountain on 10-19-2010 at 09:36 AM · [top]

RE: “this is merely the cost of being faithfully prophetic (sic). . . . “

Well . . . . at least . . . now that’s what they are saying.

Back even as recently as three years ago it was all “just a flesh wound” and as soon as the teensy number of primitivist fundamentalist homophobes left, everything would be rosy and TECusa would be thriving and growing, growing and thriving.

So the rhetorical shift has been an interesting roundabout acknowledgement of the facts on the ground.

[16] Posted by Sarah on 10-19-2010 at 09:40 AM · [top]

It’s not downsizing, it’s rightsizing. After those who are not receptive to the new movings of the spirit have departed, why the Episcopal church will be strategically positioned to ... rightsize some more.

There is a spirit of prophesy moving in the new Episcopal Church. Unfortunately for those who are proclaiming it, it is the Old Testament one about hard hearts, stone ears, stiff necks and an unwillingness to repent and hear the Word of the Lord. They are reaping what they have sown and rather than repenting, plowing weeds over and replanting with good seed, they are resowing the fields with the same bad seeds.

Small wonder the bad news continues.

[17] Posted by Matthew A (formerly mousestalker) on 10-19-2010 at 09:40 AM · [top]

Personal aside to Fr. Ed McNeill (#13),

Keep up the good work, brother.  But may I suggest that you contact a dear friend of mine who just moved to the Bay Area?  Not that he’s former TEC or a prospective church member, but because he is an expert on expanding your base of church leaders (with a D. Min. on the subject), and when it comes to church growth and church planting, I think leadership development is the name of the game.

My friend is Wayne Mancari, and he’s an Assembly of God pastor (age 56 or so), who just joined the staff of the huge Pentecostal outfit, Cathedral of Hope, with the mandate to raise up enough new leaders to start 20 new satellite churches in the next few years.  If anybody can do that, my friend Wayne can (or rather Christ can do it through him).  Wayne also has a special fondness for liturgical Christians and especially Anglicans.

Rev. Mancari pastored the local Assembly congregation in my Richmond suburb (Chester) for some 23 years, and the Lord grew that church from an ASA of about 100 to around 700 in that time.  He could be a valuable consultant.  Tell him I sent you.

David Handy+

[18] Posted by New Reformation Advocate on 10-19-2010 at 10:04 AM · [top]

13.  Having left St Francis’ in San Jose seven years ago, this is truly great news, Fr Ed!  I wish all of you the best of luck!

[19] Posted by cennydd13 on 10-19-2010 at 10:09 AM · [top]

Sarah—Here’s the real lesson in all this:  Don’t let draft dodgers become priests. My antecdotal experience is that most of the whack nuts who got us where we are were men in the 1960’s who became priests to do good works, get paid for it and avoid the military.

[20] Posted by David Keller on 10-19-2010 at 10:11 AM · [top]

Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had “new movings of the spirit” which led to Islam and the LDS religions.  I would love to see what the TEC religion is in 50 years if it hasn’t completely dissappeared.  Maybe I will be informed on the other side of the grave as I don’t think I will live to 110.

[21] Posted by BillB on 10-19-2010 at 10:18 AM · [top]

[20] David Keller

Here’s the real lesson in all this:  Don’t let draft dodgers become priests.

LOL I am standing and applauding.


[22] Posted by carl on 10-19-2010 at 10:26 AM · [top]

Thank You David+,

I will look him up!  Leadership development is the name of the game.

Thank you cennydd13,

Do you have any friends you can send my way?

[23] Posted by Ed McNeill on 10-19-2010 at 10:34 AM · [top]

Most of them left when my wife and I left for St Alban’s in Los Banos.  Some went to other areas of the state, and I think one or two left for other churches.

[24] Posted by cennydd13 on 10-19-2010 at 10:42 AM · [top]

I think this could be making the case for a Government bailout!

[25] Posted by Capt. Father Warren on 10-19-2010 at 10:43 AM · [top]

#20 - As my JROTC Marine Instructor used to say: OUTSTANDING!

I have heard this said as well, and can certainly believe it.  Given the quality of theological formation in the ‘50’s, ‘60’s and ‘70’s, it is no wonder that many progressives (read: hippies) found their way out of the world which required a certain amount of responsibility and personal courage and into a safe environment that was “non-judgmental” and didn’t require any kind of self-sacrifice or devotion.  I know, that is harsh, but am I wrong.  With the exception of Nashotah House and Trinity, do any of our seminaries today stress personal, spiritual formation and discipline?  I doubt it.  If our priests and bishops are never taught how to discipline themselves, how can they ever provide spiritual discipline for their flocks or for the Church?

[26] Posted by Sacerdotal451 on 10-19-2010 at 10:48 AM · [top]

Sarah (16): Do you think the “magic moment” came at General Convention 2009 when the triennial budget was unleashed? It seems to me that was the point where a convention’s worth of feel-good rhetoric about expanding mission met the harsh reality of shrinking numbers and dollars. Also, I’ll be curious to see how those further up the left coast, in Oregon and Olympia, are doing.

[27] Posted by polycarp on 10-19-2010 at 10:49 AM · [top]

I ran some statistical forecasts a few months back, using a variety of statistical modeling methodoligies, which I won’t bore you with.  Using rather benign assumptions, (about baptisms, confirmations, death rates, etc.,) applied by province, I came up with the following estimated ASA:
2010 ~670K
2015 (next Presiding Bishop election) ~570K
2024 (PB election) ~437K
2033 (PB election) ~250K

Of course, as a starting point I used the dubious red-book figures, so the entire process was based on TEc’s falsely inflated data. 

Also, attrition will be further accelerated, as no account was given for the “lumpiness” of losses as parishes drop below sustainable levels.  My methodology assumed parishes continued even with ASA of fewer than 10 people.  Clearly, this isn’t the case, but I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt.

I believe it quite possible, using more realistically aggresive assumptions, to forsee an ASA of ~375K by 2020.

[28] Posted by R. Scott Purdy on 10-19-2010 at 10:50 AM · [top]

The losses in the Dio. of California (top chart) reflect the City of San Francisco.  No positive bump from VGR or any of the rest of it - it is likely that the losses include at least some gays and lesbians who were grappling with questions of sexual identity and Christian faith, or who had found in TEC a place to “work out their own salvation with fear and trembling,” but who were not down with the loon activist clergy caste or the fetishists and exhibitionists with whom Andrus rolls on parade.

[29] Posted by Timothy Fountain on 10-19-2010 at 10:54 AM · [top]

One of the great ironies of TECs impending implosion is that Dead Men’s Money was the critical enabling factor in TECs self-destruction.  TEC is rich with endowments, and this fact tempted the leadership to pursue its agenda in the face of the inevitable turmoil.  Other denominations might have to be tread lightly less they spook the horses, but TEC had means at its disposal.  The money in the bank (it was thought) could ‘finance’ the transition from one gospel to another.  Reactionaries would surely leave, and money would be tight for a while.  The endowments could bridge the resulting gap in funding.  Then the new masses would flood the church once the old dogmas were put away.  Membership would rebound, and new contributions would pour into the coffers. 

It has not turned out as planned.  TEC didn’t correctly account for the fact that the people who share their worldview don’t see much need for organized religion.  It drove away the people who cared, and then turned to receive the applause of the crowd.  The crowd did indeed applaud, but it also curtly declined the offer to join the congregation.  It didn’t care about TEC or its ideas.  The crowd simply wanted to see the old religion put down lest it trouble the conscience.  When the show was over, the crowd went home and sought after other distractions.  Now TEC is mired in multitudes of lawsuits with spiraling legal costs even as its membership hurtles toward a demographic cliff.  I have often wondered whether the lawsuits are simply a providential way of delivering all of TECs carefully-hoarded assets into the hands of lawyers.  Even what they have will be taken from them.


[30] Posted by carl on 10-19-2010 at 11:20 AM · [top]

Excellent summary, carl.

[31] Posted by Timothy Fountain on 10-19-2010 at 11:25 AM · [top]

This is all very simple. The Episcopal Church since 2000/2003 has lost a lot of credibility. It’s not only liberal loons’ who have done this. To my mind it’s even more obvious that TEC’s affirmative action recruitment and deployment policies, which resulted in KJS as PB and VGR in NH, put a bunch of incompetent people in the driver’s seat.

[32] Posted by A Senior Priest on 10-19-2010 at 11:47 AM · [top]

A Senior Priest - you are right about the leadership outcome, but what horrifies me is that they were all elected and affirmed over and over and over again - by vestries, commissions on ministry, standing cmtes., conventions, etc. etc. etc.

The ascent of loons and incompetents required the laity of the church as the steady wind beneath their wings.

[33] Posted by Timothy Fountain on 10-19-2010 at 11:54 AM · [top]

The cause and consequence of the San Joaquin drops are obvious, though I’m not sure if it speaks worse for the ACNA or the honesty of TEC’s counting that the numbers show that roughly a quarter of the diocese choose to stay with TEC.  The “cost of discipleship” thing works both ways.  Is the drop in LA, for example, any worse than the drop in the Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin’s attendance once it left? 

Also, outside of the dioceses that left, how much of the drop represents conservatives leaving and how much represents decline through deaths people moving away not being replaced by new members?  Not, mind you, that having more burials than baptisms is a sign of a healthy church.

I’m not trying to argue for the liberals, but be careful with the numbers game.  TEC can still claim more members than the ACNA and the various Continuers combined.  We also don’t know yet what the ACNA’s future growth patterns will look like when the supply of TEC defectors dries up.  Lots of churches are experiences decline, even conservative, orthodox and evangelical churches.

[34] Posted by AndrewA on 10-19-2010 at 01:43 PM · [top]

The ‘drop in attendance’ in our Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin was a drop in the bucket compared to Episcopal dioceses….and that is a fact.  And ‘TEC defectors” still are most certainly welcome, but they’re not the only source of new Anglicans.

[35] Posted by cennydd13 on 10-19-2010 at 01:54 PM · [top]

And by the way, we are admitting some new congregations at our convention this coming weekend, I believe.

[36] Posted by cennydd13 on 10-19-2010 at 01:57 PM · [top]

Come on folks.  Give them a break.  The plates and pews are going to fill up with the GLBTQXYZ crowd just as soon as they all wake up from their all-nighters at the raves, foam parties and bathhouses.

[37] Posted by midwestnorwegian on 10-19-2010 at 02:05 PM · [top]

Carl (#30) is spot in with his analysis.  TEC went after applause from the secular left crowd, but hasn’t yet realized that the secular liberals see TEC as “useful idiots”.  In other words, TEC is the group that the liberal activists can use to undermine Christianity.

Liberal activists might applaud TEC’s liberal stands, and TEC members may be considered to be “acceptable” but the liberal activists would have no interest at all in joining TEC.  It would be like us comparing extremist Muslims to moderate Muslims.  We would, no doubt, applaud the moderate message of the moderate Muslims, but in so doing, we would have no motivation whatsoever to actually become Muslims ourselves.  The “Muslimness” of the two competing groups would have no interest for us at all - rather we would be applauding the political stand of the one group, because that political stand is advantageous to us.

TEC has been played for fools - they actually think that liberal activists care what they think.  They don’t.  Liberal activists will use TEC for their own purposes (i.e. to undermine Christianity on certain issues) and once they have succeeded politically, TEC will be tossed in the trash.

Speaking to Ed (#13), it is my sense that the decline in California TEC parishes (at least in Northern California) is primarily explained by the fact that the baby boomer children stopped coming to or caring about TEC and/or church, and TEC has been so insular that it has never reached out beyond to draw in new people.  Now the older folks are dying off, and there isn’t the next generation to fill the churches.  Secondarily, there have been some conservatives who have left TEC, but my experience with such folks is that the vast majority of them have simply joined another conservative denomination.  I think that “post-denominationalism” is more advanced here then perhaps in other parts of the country.

That’s not to suggest that I don’t think Anglican church planting is important.  I most definitely think it is.  After all, I don’t see any long term future in TEC as a viable future expression of Anglicanism.  And I think that Anglicanism has much to offer.  What I do think, though, is that future Anglican church plants will be drawing much more from the general public then they will from former TECers looking for another Anglican alternative.

[38] Posted by jamesw on 10-19-2010 at 02:58 PM · [top]

And we’re doing this already, as I said earlier.

[39] Posted by cennydd13 on 10-19-2010 at 03:07 PM · [top]

#38 jamesw,

I agree about the future growth coming from the general population.  I simply do not want to overlook the people most wanting our presence.  In CA TEC accounts for less than 0.01% of the population. We need to focus on the 75% - 85% that are unchurched.  To reach these people we need communities of faith throughout the area.  That is why I am looking for people with a vested interest in helping start missions. Every Mission we begin increases our reach.

I’m currently in conversation with six people about beginning a mission.  Four are formerly Episcopal.

[40] Posted by Ed McNeill on 10-19-2010 at 07:03 PM · [top]

The choices for most disaffected Anglicans is often simply one of logistics.  I have just left my uber-left parish in central Massaschusetts and find the nearest anglican (conservative) service is 20+ miles away and here in congested New England, 20 miles is not 20 minutes.  With 2 kids, husband, job, 2 school committes my available time is at an all-time minimum.  A church must be close by for my attendance.  However, was glad to see one existed;  it is ACNA, which I have just learned of through this standfirm site.  Grateful.

[41] Posted by episcopal100 on 10-19-2010 at 08:28 PM · [top]

“I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes…” (Romans 1:16)

America is becoming post-Christian (more quickly in some places than others) after the manner of Europe, and for the same reason.  In the face of modernity, the church retreated and became ashamed of the Gospel.  Liberal and mainline Christians felt that society’s advances would provide the answers to society’s ills.  All the church needed to do was provide the spiritual component (for those who still required it). 

Well it hasn’t worked. The Brave New World doesn’t need chaplains.  And a purely horizontal “gospel” overlaid with a religious veneer just isn’t appealing to anyone.  If people want to support gay rights and the Millennium Development Goals, all they have to do is vote Democrat, and they can sleep in or take the kids to soccer on Sunday morning.  And they can probably feel better after a Yoga session, an hour of transcendental meditation, a walk on the beach, or a work-out at the gym than they will after a service at the typical liberal church.

If we don’t preach the everlasting Gospel of Jesus Christ that can save souls and transform lives, then we need to give up, period.

Fortunately there are churches that preach the authentic Gospel on the “Left Coast.”  A few of them are Anglican, but hardly any of them are Episcopal (sadly).  But the ones who do so are growing.

[42] Posted by ToAllTheWorld on 10-19-2010 at 10:04 PM · [top]

#27 Oregon and Olympia.  I can’t speak about Olympia.  But, I know that Cascadia, the ACNA diocese in formation which covers OR, WA, ID, and AK, is growing nicely.  Our own little church plant has grown from 12 people in a Sunday night prayer group to an ASA of 65 or so in 3 years.  About 20 of these are former TEC.  The rest are from elsewhere.  We have also spawned to additional plants in Tacoma and Prescott, AZ. Our parish has raised up two new priests and accepted one transfer from another denomination.  As Gamaliel warned the council in Acts: if it is of men, it will fizzle.  If it of God you will not be able to stop it. {Paraphrase}
Thanks be to God!
NW Bob

[43] Posted by Northwest Bob on 10-20-2010 at 05:45 AM · [top]

Whoops!  Make that two additional church plants.

[44] Posted by Northwest Bob on 10-20-2010 at 05:48 AM · [top]

Speaking of failing churches, apparently the Crystal Cathedral has gone bankrupt.  Just goes to show that replacing solid gospel preaching with “The Power of Positive Thinking” and extravagent spending isn’t exactly a sure path to success.

[45] Posted by AndrewA on 10-20-2010 at 06:23 AM · [top]

Is getting prophetically smaller the same as rightsizing?  Is anyone going to protest the CA Dioceses outsourcing of disciples?

[46] Posted by Recently Roman on 10-20-2010 at 06:33 AM · [top]

Good job, Sarah!  I love it when you confuse the “new and prophetic” gospel proponents with the facts.  And you have done that so well here, again.

Way to go Ed McNeill!  Keep up the Kingdom work out there.

This is a good thread, haven’t signed in here for awhile and glad to see things are still cookin’.

I have always been interested in the term for this backwards gospel movement, “progressive Christianity.” Can you imagine someone (was it perhaps at the Jesus seminar?) deciding what to call it when you no longer believe the faith revealed in the Bible and through Jesus Christ and you have decided it needs to go, but you want to believe you are on the forefront of something new and better, and you for some odd reason, like the association that the broad term “Christianity” gives you. So you keep the term “Christianity” (so it won’t be too startling or obvious what you no longer believe to be true) and tack on the word “progressive” because doesn’t everyone want to make progress or be “progressive??”  Voila!  Two words to define a movement which has nothing to do with either word! As Matt has said, “progressive Christianity is neither.”  The facts of the regression that Sarah has put before us: in California no less, cannot be denied.

Please pray with me for my children and grand children, still in the Diocese of Los Angeles. That they will somehow be fed and nourished in the faith once for all entrusted to the saints through some of those saints and servants of the living God in LA.

Blessings dear friends in Christ Jesus.

[47] Posted by BettyLee Payne on 10-20-2010 at 03:01 PM · [top]

Meanwhile, Anglicanism is growing elsewhere:
“What is equally astounding is what I call “Anglican fever” on university and seminary campuses.  Five weeks ago, Dean Timothy George of Beeson School of Theology in Birmingham, Alabama, a school of Baptist foundation, informed me that “the fastest growing group of students are the Anglicans.”  I met with twenty eager Wheaton College students in August.  All are part of newly formed Anglican congregations in the Chicago area.  None of them were raised as Anglicans. All believe themselves called to some kind of missionary life as committed disciples of Jesus. They want not only to tell about Jesus, but to do what Jesus did.  These are by no means isolated North American stories.”
From Apb. Duncan’s address at the Lausanne Congress

[48] Posted by St. Nikao on 10-20-2010 at 04:09 PM · [top]

Carl’s #30 is excellent analysis.

[49] Posted by The Lakeland Two on 10-21-2010 at 08:45 AM · [top]

In addition to #30’s other points, I think a large part of TEC’s national leadership thought that the TEC “brand” would continue untainted even as they pulled it into an odd mix of intolerant universalism with vestments and litigation.  And they also thought that the brand would continue to pull in, or at least retain, “the right sort of people” as the chaplaincy to the upper middle class that it had been up to my generation.  Both thoughts were wrong.  “Episcopal” now carries more negative connotations than positive, and at the same time as the culture has changed, many of the people they thought would be held in by the social aspects of the old denomination ceased to care about that.  This was all predicted, even by some in 815 at the time, but few in the TEC leadership would listen.  And you only have to look at some of the blogs to see that some in TEC are still under the delusion that winning a few more lawsuits will just turn things around, as opposed to further burying their reputation.

The new Anglicanism as in the ACNA, on the other hand, has a positive image (outside of TEC), and does not carry TEC’s elitist bent and baggage.  Their growth has not been thwarted by losing lawsuits.

[50] Posted by pendennis88 on 10-21-2010 at 09:21 AM · [top]

I would say, then, pendennis88, that TEC has failed miserably, wouldn’t you?

[51] Posted by cennydd13 on 10-21-2010 at 10:05 AM · [top]

These statistics should not be terribly surprising to anyone whose been watching TEC over the past decade. It is easy for anyone to believe in anything they want in any manner they wish. The problem is anyone able to believe whatever they want will have little need of an institution telling them they can do so. They will simply cut out the middle man. Meanwhile, while many of our parishes and missions become little more than a cross between social clubs and community outreach organizations, those parishioners still desiring to pursue faith and religion inside these churches are left in the difficult position of either going with the flow and keeping quiet or standing up for truth in the face of criticism from their fellow parishioners, and possibly having to seek their religious expression elsewhere.

[52] Posted by ILAnglican on 10-21-2010 at 05:49 PM · [top]

Spot on ILLAnglican: 
<The problem is anyone able to believe whatever they want will have little need of an institution telling them they can do so.>
Totally agree.

[53] Posted by episcopal100 on 10-23-2010 at 01:07 PM · [top]

Just a very late note that we have launched a new website for San Francisco in the hopes that people searching for an Anglican Church will find us so we can help them launch a new mission.

Check it out San Francisco Anglicans   We are now working on the SEO. You can help us by visiting the site.  grin

[54] Posted by Ed McNeill on 10-26-2010 at 02:13 PM · [top]

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