November 24, 2014

February 27, 2013


A Prediction

The writing is on the wall I think. The Archbishop of Canterbury will link the ACNA’s communion recognition to the ACNA’s willingness to participate in his “reconciliation” process. “Reconcile with the Episcopal Church and you will be rewarded with a place at my table.”

The question, I think, will be whether or not the ACNA bishops possess the fidelity to refuse the lure and stand firm. I think they do and pray they will.

If they don’t - and this is predictive not a declaration - then the ACNA will begin to come undone.


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19 comments

Reconcile on what basis?  Accept the heresy they are teaching now?  I think not.  I HOPE not!

[1] Posted by Goughdonna on 2-27-2013 at 11:00 AM · [top]

Matt, I also pray they will stand firm.  So many good folks in ACNA [eg, YOU] have worked so hard, fought so hard to create an orthodox place in North America for Anglicans.  Pray it is not sold for the mere approval of men.

[2] Posted by Capt. Father Warren on 2-27-2013 at 11:02 AM · [top]

I have doubts about what the ACNA will do. The Baucum/Shannon thing makes me wonder about whether ACNA will stand firm. No one seems to have the will - the hearrt - to stand firm these days. It’s very discouraging. The approval of men - or at least not offending men - seems ot be more importnat than the approval of Jesus.

[3] Posted by Nellie on 2-27-2013 at 12:09 PM · [top]

I do hope the ACNA leadership stands firm and says no to this proposal.  We are doing fine without Canterbury, thank you very much.  We don’t need Canterbury.  If the ABC wants to keep TEC in the A.C., fine.  Count us out.

David Katzakian

[4] Posted by sactohye on 2-27-2013 at 12:26 PM · [top]

Well, Matt—you were certainly accurate in your predictions back in October/November. Kudos to you for sounding the warning months ago.  Your predictions of last year are unfolding before our eyes.

[5] Posted by Sarah on 2-27-2013 at 12:29 PM · [top]

I also hope that ACNA will stand firm, for many reasons.

As TEC continues to circle the drain, ACNA is one option we TEC-ers have for escape. But, since ACNA is mostly made up of people who will leave a non-hierarchical national confederation of dioceses over an important disagreement, it is (to me) inherently unstable.

If they stand together, without caving, I suspect they will have the full backing of the Global South in a battle of wills with Canterbury. And, if Canterbury aligns with TEC, the schism will be complete, and I’m sure that ACNA and GAFCON-FCA will be a fine alternative Anglican Communion.

I’ve read elsewhere that Mrs. Schori has been invited to ABp. Welby’s enthronement. Given that a chunk of the Anglican Communion doesn’t recognize that she is even in Holy Orders, I would hope that they have also invited ABp. Duncan.

[6] Posted by Ralph on 2-27-2013 at 12:55 PM · [top]

We need to be careful that we aren’t falling into another hole by giving a blanket endorsement to GAFCON/FCA:

http://livingtext.blogspot.com/search/label/Rwanda

ACNA should speak up loud and clear on human rights violations by member governments.

[7] Posted by Joel on 2-27-2013 at 01:11 PM · [top]

The whole thing is very discouraging. It’s looking more and more like there’s nowhere to go. One of our sons is completely disillusioned with organized religion and no longer attends church. I can’t think of a good argument to counter that with.

[8] Posted by Nellie on 2-27-2013 at 01:12 PM · [top]

I believe there is little chance of recognition by the ABC or the other Communion instruments as a constituent member of the Anglican Communion.  TEC would not permit it, even if it was otherwise desired.  It’s a pipe dream.
It is the height of naiveté to chase after a promise that recognition could occur after some ill defined reconciliation process.  It’s unseemly. Desperate.
If you felt called to join the ACNA, then get about doing God’s work, spreading the Gospel and building churches and domestic structures that will last.  Get beyond Canterbury. It that was over overriding importance, you shouldn’t have left in the first place.

[9] Posted by Going Home on 2-27-2013 at 05:37 PM · [top]

I tend to agree with Going Home’s opinion:

I believe there is little chance of recognition by the ABC or the other Communion instruments as a constituent member of the Anglican Communion.  TEC would not permit it, even if it was otherwise desired.  It’s a pipe dream.

Any recognition would be from the Church of England and ABC only.

I think, Matt, that your mistake here is thinking that this is about TEC and ACNA.  It’s not.  It’s about the Global South and the Church of England.  I seriously doubt that Welby would agree to legitimize the ACNA, when what he is trying to prevent is something like the ACNA happening in England.  That said, you might be correct in that he would be willing to sell ACNA some sort of pseudo-recognition (i.e. recognizing the orders of ACNA clergy but have that as the limit).

If you really think of it, I don’t even know that there will be an “end” to this reconciliation.  Women bishops and gay “marriage” are set to hit England by 2014.  Thus, if the reconciliation process can grind on for 3-4 years, then Welby might hope that some new sort of status quo will have settled in, and the process can safely be wrapped up.

Really, what is Baucum or Truro getting out of this, other than Baucum’s 20 minutes in the warm, glowing sun of Welby’s admiration?  From Welby’s perspective, if Baucum will dance for pennies, why toss him nickles?

[10] Posted by jamesw on 2-27-2013 at 07:14 PM · [top]

Nellie,

This is why we are now very happy, tho’ not as ordained, in Missouri Synod Lutheran.  The local LCMS is a very welcoming community, not nearly as closed minded and closed communion as they were years ago…all told, an enjoyable place to worship and work.

[11] Posted by Fr. Chip, SF on 2-27-2013 at 10:17 PM · [top]

Matt+
Let’s agree to “Stand Firm’ in the ACNA. The price of an invitation to Lambeth is 23 pieces of silver.

[12] Posted by Fr. Dale on 2-27-2013 at 10:52 PM · [top]

“If you felt called to join the ACNA, then get about doing God’s work, spreading the Gospel and building churches and domestic structures that will last.  Get beyond Canterbury. It that was over overriding importance, you shouldn’t have left in the first place.”

Excellent advice, Going Home.

I also generally agree with Jamesw’s post, but I would add the caveat that ABC may well offer recognition to ACNA at some point.  Simply put, ABC and the CofE establishment that elected him feel no more loyalty to TEC than they do to ACNA or anyone else.  They share similar but not identical doctrinal positons with TEC, and in any case their first loyalty is to themselves. 

For instance, local events in England will carry far more impact with the CofE establishment than anything overseas.  Note that TEC’s contributions to the Anglican Communion Office really fall into the former category, because they provide employment and sinecures to Lambeth bureaucrats and CofE bishops.  But as TEC’s capacity to contribute to ACO’s coffers diminishes, so draws closer the day when ABC will dirk them.

[13] Posted by MichaelA on 2-27-2013 at 11:18 PM · [top]

Good points Jamesw…you may be right about recognition never actually being on the table…but here’s where all that wonderfully useful English “subtlety” comes into play. rW was adept at making things seem to be on the table that really weren’t. My guess is that Welty will do the same.

[14] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 2-28-2013 at 05:42 AM · [top]

>The Archbishop of Canterbury will link the ACNA’s communion recognition to the ACNA’s willingness to participate in his “reconciliation” process. “Reconcile with the Episcopal Church and you will be rewarded with a place at my table

Ya think?

Now who’s going to try kicking the ball from Lucy again?

[15] Posted by jedinovice on 2-28-2013 at 06:42 AM · [top]

If ACNA intends to be orthodox and abide by Scripture and Tradition, then communion with Canterbury and the CoE, Scotland, Ireland would not be a very desireable situation, especially having left TEC.  To join with another heretical/apostate body is ludicrous and would negate all the last ten years pain, hard work and money…of hundreds of priests and thousands of laity.  To be in the Canterbury Communion would put ACNA back in communion with TEC and the CoE.  Which is not a good thing at all.

The CoE/Scotland/Wales/Ireland are suffering from the same cancers as TEC.  Welby is trying to reconcile good and evil and the Anglican Communion from a businessman’s perspective as a sort of corporate merger and it looks as though may not fully understand the spiritual nature of the church and the faith.  Williams was a theologician (theologian-magician) grasping at straws trying to find a way to philosophically and doctrinally reconcile the work of the natural mind (gay and muslim agendas) with the spiritual mind and Scripture and he, for all his supposed intellect, missed the mark as well.  Shori and Robinson don’t understand Scriptures or the Holy Spirit or the Gospel at all - they see everything on earth, including the church, through the lense of their emotions and nether parts.

The fact that Welby and Baucum and possibly Duncan and the ACNA can’t see this is disturbing and discouraging to say the least.

[16] Posted by St. Nikao on 2-28-2013 at 09:24 AM · [top]

The AC is way over rated. What does membership get you? Confusion, obstruction, open communion and sexuality. I could go on.

[17] Posted by Festivus on 2-28-2013 at 04:44 PM · [top]

Perhaps we can chalk this up as another consequence of unsuccessful property litigation.  They were so invested in the litigation that when it didnt turn out as hoped they essentially sued for peace.

[18] Posted by Going Home on 2-28-2013 at 07:31 PM · [top]

Going Home, I wonder.  Large evangelical Anglican churches tend to be good at dealing with property and logistic issues. 

It seems equally plausible that Baucum+ is happy to deal with +Johnston because it suits his values and beliefs.

[19] Posted by MichaelA on 2-28-2013 at 09:06 PM · [top]

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