I thought that the ABC three years ago pronounced that a federation was a step down from communion. Maybe this federation is a step up from the separation among continuing churches and a step toward full communion with the Anglican Communion sans ecusa?
[1] Posted by Tony on 8-9-2006 at 06:51 AM · [top]
I think that is precisely what is happening here Tony, they are moving toward a closer form of relating to one another. This is not intended as a model for the wider communion.
For the Communion a federation model would indeed be a step down.
[2] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 8-9-2006 at 07:17 AM · [top]
The Federation represents the church members, aka ecclesial jurisdictions, that make up the Common Cause partners. I believe it is a down payment on a new North American Anglican province. How that plays out is dependent upon the form and substance of what the primates do. It’s the fruit of the Anglican Essentials and Anglican Congress movements in the 1994-2003 time frame. The Anglican Congress had a website till a few months ago, but movements like that still leave traces - here is a small trace for your enjoyment.
[3] Posted by Andy Figueroa on 8-9-2006 at 07:42 AM · [top]
Listed as a sponsor of what Andy cites above is:
The Episcopal Church of the United States of America
Is this ecusa/tec? If so, who represented ecusa/tec?
[4] Posted by Tony on 8-9-2006 at 08:09 AM · [top]
Andy,
I found some other items of interest. In 2005 there was a covenant union formed between the REC, APA and the Church of Nigeria. In October of 1999, Articles of Ecclesiatical Fellowship was formed (called the Bartonville Agreement) between the American Anglican Church, Anglican Church In America, APA, Anglican Rite Synod of the Americas and the Orthodox Anglican Church. REC Bp. Royal Grote was in the picture but the REC was not a signor.
[5] Posted by Gayle on 8-9-2006 at 08:19 AM · [top]
Tony, this was before 2003 (December 2002 in fact - and I had the great priviledge of being there). ECUSA was represented by a good body of orthodox Episcopalians. +Duncan was one of the co-conveners. Richard Kew+ ran it. It looked like a Network/AAC gathering with extra friends.
[6] Posted by Andy Figueroa on 8-9-2006 at 08:31 AM · [top]
Gayle, thanks for the note. There has been a movement towards godly unity for some time now that warms the cockles of my heart. (What are cockles, anyway?) +Royal Grote (REC) is the bishop of the Diocese of Mid-America. +Ray Sutton is one of his suffragans. Can you see the plot thickening? It’s not soup yet, but soon.
[7] Posted by Andy Figueroa on 8-9-2006 at 08:37 AM · [top]
Well, Andy. Technically, a cockle is a type of mussel, a bivalve. According to the medical dictionary, the cockles of one’s heart are the vetricles, which makes sense considering they are bivalve and prehaps resemble a cockle.
It’s this quiet, behind the scenes movement and gathering that reminds me that God is in control.
[8] Posted by Gayle on 8-9-2006 at 08:56 AM · [top]
This looks to be an effoprt to Create a CAPA like organization in N. America…There was something similar “created” a year or so ago involving The Bahamas under ++Gomez…similar anacronym…
Similarly, we also have this LEAC group seemingly competing with the AAC for organizing and involving laity.
I am at the point where it is clear we have too many groups doing similar things for our own good I think
Doug
[9] Posted by aacswfl1 on 8-10-2006 at 09:52 AM · [top]
Here’s an article I found this morning that asks the question, can Anglicanism find and maintain unity and stability, doctrinal and Scriptural integrity without authority? http://andalsowithyou.blogspot.com
I ask the question a different way, ‘Can the Holy Spirit govern and keep Christ’s Church individually and corporately (ie, through adherence to a voluntarily ratified Anglican Covenant and) to Scripture without organizational authority?’
[10] Posted by Theodora on 8-12-2006 at 07:47 AM · [top]
Dear aacswfl1,
Different organizations have different purposes, just like the AAC = an advocacy organization, and the ACN = an ecclesial (organized church) organization. CAPA and it’s western equivalent are geographically specific affiliations of ecclesial organizations, as is the Federation of Anglican Churches in America. They are not redundant or excessive in any way. Each has its important niche, and are in fact, in unity with each other through the Anglican Communion.
On the other hand, LEAC is definitely setting itself up to compete with the AAC. The best way to deal with the LEAC upstart is probably to ignore them in substance while being aware of the situation. Oh, and also pray that they might also fill some important niche while not harming the essential AAC effort.
[11] Posted by Andy Figueroa on 8-12-2006 at 08:50 AM · [top]
Floridian- concerning your question: “I ask the question a different way, ‘Can the Holy Spirit govern and keep Christ’s Church individually and corporately (ie, through adherence to a voluntarily ratified Anglican Covenant and) to Scripture without organizational authority?’”
I hope so, or we might as well join the RCC. The centralization of ecclesial power has led to an “office” that can be wielded to abuse the righteous. The canonical fascism that we are witnessing is a case in point.
I would rather be a remant outside the door of an institution than a senior Bishop of TEC.
[12] Posted by Christoferos on 8-12-2006 at 10:22 AM · [top]
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I thought that the ABC three years ago pronounced that a federation was a step down from communion. Maybe this federation is a step up from the separation among continuing churches and a step toward full communion with the Anglican Communion sans ecusa?
[1] Posted by Tony on 8-9-2006 at 06:51 AM · [top]
I think that is precisely what is happening here Tony, they are moving toward a closer form of relating to one another. This is not intended as a model for the wider communion.
For the Communion a federation model would indeed be a step down.
[2] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 8-9-2006 at 07:17 AM · [top]
The Federation represents the church members, aka ecclesial jurisdictions, that make up the Common Cause partners. I believe it is a down payment on a new North American Anglican province. How that plays out is dependent upon the form and substance of what the primates do. It’s the fruit of the Anglican Essentials and Anglican Congress movements in the 1994-2003 time frame. The Anglican Congress had a website till a few months ago, but movements like that still leave traces - here is a small trace for your enjoyment.
[3] Posted by Andy Figueroa on 8-9-2006 at 07:42 AM · [top]
Listed as a sponsor of what Andy cites above is:
The Episcopal Church of the United States of America
Is this ecusa/tec? If so, who represented ecusa/tec?
[4] Posted by Tony on 8-9-2006 at 08:09 AM · [top]
Andy,
I found some other items of interest. In 2005 there was a covenant union formed between the REC, APA and the Church of Nigeria. In October of 1999, Articles of Ecclesiatical Fellowship was formed (called the Bartonville Agreement) between the American Anglican Church, Anglican Church In America, APA, Anglican Rite Synod of the Americas and the Orthodox Anglican Church. REC Bp. Royal Grote was in the picture but the REC was not a signor.
[5] Posted by Gayle on 8-9-2006 at 08:19 AM · [top]
Tony, this was before 2003 (December 2002 in fact - and I had the great priviledge of being there). ECUSA was represented by a good body of orthodox Episcopalians. +Duncan was one of the co-conveners. Richard Kew+ ran it. It looked like a Network/AAC gathering with extra friends.
[6] Posted by Andy Figueroa on 8-9-2006 at 08:31 AM · [top]
Gayle, thanks for the note. There has been a movement towards godly unity for some time now that warms the cockles of my heart. (What are cockles, anyway?) +Royal Grote (REC) is the bishop of the Diocese of Mid-America. +Ray Sutton is one of his suffragans. Can you see the plot thickening? It’s not soup yet, but soon.
[7] Posted by Andy Figueroa on 8-9-2006 at 08:37 AM · [top]
Well, Andy. Technically, a cockle is a type of mussel, a bivalve. According to the medical dictionary, the cockles of one’s heart are the vetricles, which makes sense considering they are bivalve and prehaps resemble a cockle.
It’s this quiet, behind the scenes movement and gathering that reminds me that God is in control.
[8] Posted by Gayle on 8-9-2006 at 08:56 AM · [top]
This looks to be an effoprt to Create a CAPA like organization in N. America…There was something similar “created” a year or so ago involving The Bahamas under ++Gomez…similar anacronym…
Similarly, we also have this LEAC group seemingly competing with the AAC for organizing and involving laity.
I am at the point where it is clear we have too many groups doing similar things for our own good I think
Doug
[9] Posted by aacswfl1 on 8-10-2006 at 09:52 AM · [top]
Here’s an article I found this morning that asks the question, can Anglicanism find and maintain unity and stability, doctrinal and Scriptural integrity without authority?
http://andalsowithyou.blogspot.com
I ask the question a different way, ‘Can the Holy Spirit govern and keep Christ’s Church individually and corporately (ie, through adherence to a voluntarily ratified Anglican Covenant and) to Scripture without organizational authority?’
[10] Posted by Theodora on 8-12-2006 at 07:47 AM · [top]
Dear aacswfl1,
Different organizations have different purposes, just like the AAC = an advocacy organization, and the ACN = an ecclesial (organized church) organization. CAPA and it’s western equivalent are geographically specific affiliations of ecclesial organizations, as is the Federation of Anglican Churches in America. They are not redundant or excessive in any way. Each has its important niche, and are in fact, in unity with each other through the Anglican Communion.
On the other hand, LEAC is definitely setting itself up to compete with the AAC. The best way to deal with the LEAC upstart is probably to ignore them in substance while being aware of the situation. Oh, and also pray that they might also fill some important niche while not harming the essential AAC effort.
[11] Posted by Andy Figueroa on 8-12-2006 at 08:50 AM · [top]
Floridian- concerning your question: “I ask the question a different way, ‘Can the Holy Spirit govern and keep Christ’s Church individually and corporately (ie, through adherence to a voluntarily ratified Anglican Covenant and) to Scripture without organizational authority?’”
I hope so, or we might as well join the RCC. The centralization of ecclesial power has led to an “office” that can be wielded to abuse the righteous. The canonical fascism that we are witnessing is a case in point.
I would rather be a remant outside the door of an institution than a senior Bishop of TEC.
[12] Posted by Christoferos on 8-12-2006 at 10:22 AM · [top]
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Comment Policy: We pride ourselves on having some of the most open, honest debate anywhere. However, we do have a few rules that we enforce strictly. They are: No over-the-top profanity, no racial or ethnic slurs, and no threats real or implied of physical violence. Please see this post for more explanation, and the posts here, here, and here for advice on becoming a valued commenter as opposed to an ex-commenter. Although we rarely do so, we reserve the right to remove or edit comments, as well as suspend users' accounts, solely at the discretion of site administrators. Since we try to err on the side of open debate, you may sometimes see comments which you believe strain the boundaries of our rules. Comments are the opinions of visitors, and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of Stand Firm site administrators or Gri5th Media, LLC.