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July 2, 2008


A Thread To Document The Heresy

Several commenters on this thread have made an excellent suggestion.  They are asking we open a thread for the purpose of documenting the various heretical actions and sayings of leadership of The Episcopal Church.  Of course, we know that Canada has a great deal to offer to this as well, not to mention quite a few in the UK.

Here’s how it will work.  Post a brief summary of the action or saying in the comment section.  All posts will need a specific reference or link.

When it is all said and done, think what a handy reference tool this will be for the Primates at Lambeth!


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251 comments

A complete rejection of the uniqueness of Christ by the Rev. Dr. George F. Regas Rector Emeritus, All Saints Church, Pasadena in a sermon at the Washington National Cathedral on April 24th, 2005. 

“I am the way, and the truth and the life. No one comes to God except through me.” The first thing I want you to explore with me is this: <u>I simply refuse</u> to hold the doctrine that there is no access to God except through Jesus.  <u>I personally reject</u> the claim that Christianity has the truth and all other religions are in error.

Sermon

carl

[2] Posted by carl on 7-2-2008 at 08:19 AM · [top]

#1 (and others in the future): It’d be best to cite the primary sources instead of blogs. The “gang” article is in the New York Daily News, June 15. Online at:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2008/06/14/2008-06-14_new_blood_violent_gang_life_is_passed_do-1.html?page=0

[3] Posted by WoCoNation on 7-2-2008 at 08:22 AM · [top]

Well, it is old news but, I guess I would not be doing my duty if I did not post the local
Exhibit A
and
Exhibit B
although the latter was brought into the bright light of day in +Bob Duncan’s address to the Gafcon organizers.

Please submit to the theology committee.

[4] Posted by tjmcmahon on 7-2-2008 at 08:22 AM · [top]

[5] Posted by Ameryx on 7-2-2008 at 08:23 AM · [top]

[6] Posted by Ameryx on 7-2-2008 at 08:26 AM · [top]

[7] Posted by Ameryx on 7-2-2008 at 08:29 AM · [top]

T.J. - Thank you, (I think) for displaying this incredible tripe which is tried to pass itself off as “theology” of some kind.  What is evident in Exhibit A, is the “cosmic” nature of document and the author’s who penned it. . .but it can’t be called “Christian” in the historic sense of the word.  (Though according to the author’s, that too may be understood in a way which accommodates our feeble understanding). NLOL

[8] Posted by carloarturo on 7-2-2008 at 08:31 AM · [top]

You don’t have to look very far. Just go back one space to “The Picture of Compliance”. HINT: It’s the thread just before this one.

the snarkster

[9] Posted by the snarkster on 7-2-2008 at 08:31 AM · [top]

The original article is blocked, but I’ve got the goods on the Islamopalian “priest” here, here, here, here, and here.

[10] Posted by David Fischler on 7-2-2008 at 08:40 AM · [top]

Then there’s the Episcopal-Hindu syncretism described here and here.

[11] Posted by David Fischler on 7-2-2008 at 08:43 AM · [top]

And who can forget this emission from John Spong? Martin Luther took 95 Theses to start the Reformation, but JSS only needed 12 to deny Christianity altogether. Last I heard, he’s still a member in good standing of the House of Bishops? Have I missed something?

[12] Posted by David Fischler on 7-2-2008 at 08:46 AM · [top]

[13] Posted by martin5 on 7-2-2008 at 08:58 AM · [top]

While this is not heresy (at least overtly) I think one must include the “Philadelphia 11.”  If memory serves me there was a rather healthy debate going on over the ordination of women.  This is not to debate those merits or their lack.  The group, led by Bishop Moore I beleive, took it upon themselves to breach the Constitutions & Canons and proceed with the irregular ordinations.  This had the effect of unilaterally ending the conversation, it also enshrined for revisionists the agenda tactic of “prophetic action”: Do whatever you want regardless of theology or the C&C;and when caught claim “prophetic action.”

[14] Posted by Nikolaus on 7-2-2008 at 09:13 AM · [top]

Will someone then arrage this into a chronological time line?

[15] Posted by Nikolaus on 7-2-2008 at 09:14 AM · [top]

#15 - Someone has a good Wiki time-line as a base with much already added on.

http://walkingapart.us/tiki-index.php

[16] Posted by Hosea6:6 on 7-2-2008 at 09:17 AM · [top]

The Word became incarnate in Santa Claus.

[17] Posted by William Witt on 7-2-2008 at 09:19 AM · [top]

On the way to God
Schori:  Christians understand that Jesus is the route to God. Umm—that is not to say that Muslims, or Sikhs, or Jains, come to God in a radically different way. They come to God through… human experience… through human experience of the divine. Christians talk about that in terms of Jesus.  (NPR interview, Oct 2006)

Schori:  Uhh… human communities have always searched for relationship that which is beyond them.. with the ultimate.. with the divine. For Christians, we say that our route to God is through Jesus. Uhh.. uh..that doesn’t mean that a Hindu.. uh.. doesn’t experience God except through Jesus. It-it-it says that Hindus and people of other faith traditions approach God through their own cultural contexts; they relate to God, they experience God in human relationships, as well as ones that transcend human relationships; and Christians would say those are our experiences of Jesus; of God through the experience of Jesus.  (NPR interview, Oct 2006)

Reporter: It sounds like you’re saying it’s a parallel reality, but in another culture and language.

Schori: I think that’s accurate. I think that’s accurate.  (NPR interview, Oct 2006)

On Jesus
Schori:  “We who practice the Christian tradition understand him as our vehicle to the divine.  But for us to assume that God could not act in other ways is, I think, to put God in an awfully small box.”  (Time Magazine, Jul 2006)

On the message of Jesus
Schori:  “The Bible tells us about how to treat other human beings, and that’s certainly the great message of Jesus—to include the unincluded.”  (CNN, Jun 2006)

On making faith decisions
Schori:  “Making any kind of faith decision is based on accumulating the best evidence one can find—what one’s senses and reason indicate, what the rest of the community has believed over time, and what the community judges most accurate today.”  (The Witness Magazine, Aug 2005)

On theology
Schori:  “Our heritage and context shape our theology.  The ways in which we understand scripture and appropriate gospel response to social realities are shaped both by our roots and our current circumstances.”  (Speech in Seattle, Nov 2005)

On her convictions
Schori:” I tend to come to a situation with a hypothesis, rather than a set-in-stone agenda. It’s a spiritual practice of mine to hold my convictions lightly in order to be open to the leading of the spirit.”  (The Living Church, Jul 2006)

On the Reign of God:
Schori:  I think of the scripture from Isaiah read by Jesus in the synagogue, the blind see, the lame are healed. . . . our vision is one of social justice like the vision enshrined in the millennium goals.  The millennium goals are our vision of the reign of God.”  (ENS News Conference, Jun 18, 2006)

Asked about life after death:
Schori:  “But what’s important about your life? What is it that has made you a unique individual? What is the passion that has kept you getting up every morning and engaging the world? There are hints within that, about what it is that continues after you die.”  (CNN, Jun 2006)

[18] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 7-2-2008 at 09:19 AM · [top]

This may not qualify as “heresy” per se, but it’s certainly indicative of a general drift: Diocese of Western Michigan rejects/rewrites Resolution R-2 at its 2007 Convention. The parts which accepted the Dar Communique were taken out, as was the resolution to refrain from SSB’s until a new consensus emerged. (Note: Dio. W. Mich has not approved SSB’s at this time.)
See here: http://www.edwm.org/DiocesanConvention2007.htm
Also, as a side note, at its 2008 convention, a priest in the diocese stood right next to Bp Gepert and said that in the name of “radical inclusiveness” she welcomed all to Eucharist at her parish, even if it was against the canons.

[19] Posted by DavidSh on 7-2-2008 at 09:22 AM · [top]

Charles Bennison said Jesus was a sinner (not sinless) who forgave himself - becoming the first bishop in the 2,000-year history of the church to make such a statement. (Not even Arius said such a thing.) It was Bennison who said the church wrote the Bible and can therefore rewrite it, and it was he who said that Jesus is “a Christ” but not the Christ. His latest inanity, that Jesus “winked at sin,” was uttered two months ago. In the “Pennsylvania Episcopalian’ (February 2006), Bennison doubts the “historical accuracy” of the four gospels and compares Mark, Matthew, Luke and John to the words on the Soviet War Memorial in Berlin calling both “propaganda”!

[20] Posted by DaveG on 7-2-2008 at 09:23 AM · [top]

Did Jesus really rise from the dead?  Not quite.

“The Easter is most profoundly about meaning, not mechanism.”

[21] Posted by William Witt on 7-2-2008 at 09:25 AM · [top]

What about Charles Bennison’s comment on the Bible:  “The church wrote the Bible and the church can re-write the Bible.”

[22] Posted by Goughdonna on 7-2-2008 at 09:27 AM · [top]

Guys - just a reminder - we need the links for this thread to be useful.  If at all possible please give us the original link.  Adding the year in your summary would be great. 
Thanks for the participation.  I really think this will be a helpful resource when it is done.  And don’t worry, if the thread gets too long, we’ll start a new one.

[23] Posted by JackieB on 7-2-2008 at 09:28 AM · [top]

St Philip’s in the Hills, Tucson, AZ—rarely uses the word “Lord” in come-and-see service because of its power imagery—Arizona Daily Star, 4-22-07.

[24] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 7-2-2008 at 09:31 AM · [top]

From the Bill Moyer Interview:

Pan(en)theism—all of creation = God’s body

“Christians talk about the body of Christ. A theologian named Sally McFague talks about the body of God as being all of creation. When one part of the body suffers, the whole body suffers. That’s an essential piece of Paul’s theology. If we’re not caring adequately for the other parts of the body, we are not only destroying ourselves, but we’re destroying our neighbors here and across the world.”

Davie and Johnny were lovers . . . . He was his man, but he was doing him wrong.

“I’ll give you, a loaded example. The story of David and Jonathan. You know, Canonically, the traditional way of reading that has been about the friendship between two men. It says in the Scripture that David loved Jonathan with a love surpassing women. Many gay and lesbian people in our church today say, ‘This is a text that says something constructive about the love between people of the same gender.’ Yet our tradition has rarely been able to look at it with those eyes. I think that’s a fertile ground for some serious Biblical scholarship and some encounter from people who come to different conclusions.”

[25] Posted by William Witt on 7-2-2008 at 09:37 AM · [top]

If “only begotten of the Father” means “unique in some way”, according to the Muslim Priest woman, that makes me the “only begotten of the Father”.  Wow, I’m so impressed with myself!  Who would have thought that being quirky was so important.  I think that if I was God, my friends would have told me by now.  There has to be something wrong with this formulation (or my friends) as I’ve been getting distinctly contrary feedback. smile

[26] Posted by monologistos on 7-2-2008 at 10:10 AM · [top]

How about turning over SJD for the Sir Elton birthday bash?

http://www.getreligion.org/?p=2309

[27] Posted by Steven in Falls Church on 7-2-2008 at 10:24 AM · [top]

This diocese newsletter from Northern Michigan… just pick a spot.
http://www.upepiscopal.org/Hiawathaland/April08CIH.pdf

[28] Posted by Lawrence+ on 7-2-2008 at 10:26 AM · [top]

First, here is the link to the item I posted earlier off of MLP, it might have been their members, but it was done in a TEC building…..

http://www.mlp.org/article.php?story=20080627004318152

Stu

[29] Posted by Stu Howe on 7-2-2008 at 10:51 AM · [top]

Jack Spong’s Twelve Feces (I mean theses)
http://www.stpetersnottingham.org/theology/spong2.html

[30] Posted by DaveG on 7-2-2008 at 12:36 PM · [top]

How about this recent and blatant disregard for the “authority” of ABC.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2232121/Gay-bishop-Gene-Robinson-to-preach-at-London-church.html

[31] Posted by PaulStead on 7-2-2008 at 12:42 PM · [top]

How about the “women’s eucharist” and “divorce rite”? Just re-read about it here

[32] Posted by Or2Dox on 7-2-2008 at 01:09 PM · [top]

The present Bishop of Newark declares that Pentecost is all about diversity—and puts the Holy Spirit in a very small box, indeed:
<a > dioceseofnewark.org/mmb_pre_pent07.html <h/a>

[33] Posted by In Newark on 7-2-2008 at 01:26 PM · [top]

Are there any devotees of St. Therese of Lisieux reading this thread?  +Newark places this “quote” at the end of his recent pastoral letter, and I’m wondering how far from the original his “translation” falls.  Somehow, I can’t imagine her referring to God as “your highest power”.

A final thought for the summer from St. Theresa of Lisieux:

May today there be peace within.  May you trust your highest power that you are exactly where you are meant to be.  May you not forget the infinite possibilities that are born of faith.  May you use the gifts you have received and pass on the love that has been given you.  Let this presence settle into your bones and allow your soul the freedom to sing, dance, praise, and love.  It is there for each and every one of you.

[34] Posted by In Newark on 7-2-2008 at 01:38 PM · [top]

Note the article by Dr. Moheb Ghali on Why I Left the Episcopal Church.

[35] Posted by Stephen Noll on 7-2-2008 at 01:42 PM · [top]

In Newark - I believe the quote is actually: 

May today there be peace within. May you trust God that you are exactly where you are meant to be. May you not forget the infinite possibilities that are born of faith. May you use those gifts that you have received, and pass on the love that has been given to you…. May you be content knowing you are a child of God…. Let this presence settle into your bones, and allow your soul the freedom to sing, dance, praise and love.  It is there for each and every one of us.

  I need to do further research but this is very interesting indeed.

[36] Posted by JackieB on 7-2-2008 at 02:15 PM · [top]

Two words…“Mother Jesus”
Shalom,
Intercessor

[37] Posted by Intercessor on 7-2-2008 at 02:23 PM · [top]

“Your gonna need a bigger boat”

[39] Posted by Paula Loughlin on 7-2-2008 at 03:06 PM · [top]

How about the Female Corpus on the Cross at St. John The Divine.  I don’t know the timeline.  Or what about the Gaia masses or the Rave masses.  I know both have been pemitted and encouraged at various TEO parishes. 

The whole raisin cakes women’s liturgy comes to mind.  Are there any links still available on the subject?

[40] Posted by Paula Loughlin on 7-2-2008 at 03:11 PM · [top]

The wiki-time line cited in #16 above is seriously excellent up to the Jefferts-Schori era.

[41] Posted by Nikolaus on 7-2-2008 at 03:52 PM · [top]

How about weak coffee at coffee hour? Pick a parish, you’ll find that heresy…

Or…acolytes in white *gasp* sneakers—worse yet, in flip flops!

And then there’s always priests in pale blue “clergy shirts”

(Just trying to inject a little levity into this rant.)

[42] Posted by PadreWayne on 7-2-2008 at 03:54 PM · [top]

Couple of requests:
1) could posters please add a phrase identifying the heresy along with the post?  Some readers (ie me!)don’t have time to keep clicking on each link to find out what the heresy is; but we do need the link to verify it.
2) make clear the connection with TEC—eg the post re: denying the virgin birth - I skimmed the article twice and still didn’t see the TEC connection.
Thanks!  Certainly makes for intersting reading . . .

[43] Posted by Kathleen C on 7-2-2008 at 03:55 PM · [top]

Padre Wayne, I think those are heresies to revisionists. grin

[44] Posted by oscewicee on 7-2-2008 at 04:00 PM · [top]

We all have been told numerous times that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality.  Did you also know that Jesus never said anything about premarital sex?  According to Rev. Astrid Storm, it is no longer a problem.

In my six years of being a priest, I’ve encountered a few people who felt premarital abstinence was right for them, and I’ve encouraged them in that. But more often than not, I’ve found that it’s something people choose not to practice. Since it’s not a divine mandate as far as I can tell, I’ve encouraged those people in their decision, as well. And as for me, I’m no longer a student of virginity, but I’m still a student of Christianity. Maybe even a better one than I was before.

Read it all here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-astrid-storm/students-of-christianity_b_94509.html

[45] Posted by Think Again on 7-2-2008 at 04:06 PM · [top]

Below is a good article that sums up in one place much of what has been identified above.

The Problem of Heresy
The Rev. Christopher M. Klukas
May, 2008

http://www.saintmartins.net/TheProblemofHeresy.pdf

[46] Posted by Think Again on 7-2-2008 at 04:21 PM · [top]

I found this 1995 report from googling “rave mass.”

Here is a summary of the goddess mass, the 1993 Missa Gaia, and the Melnyk thing.

Don’t forget that in 1998, the GOE included a question regarding teaching a parishioner about Sophia.

[47] Posted by tired on 7-2-2008 at 04:39 PM · [top]

In 2000, the official newsletter of the Diocese of El Camino Real published an article by the diocese’s Communications Director advocating that the church should embrace Wicca and Neo-Paganism. It concludes, “The vitality of Neo-Paganism, the revival of ancient pre-Christian religious practices, including shamanism, suggests to me that the Living Water we seek might also be found in sources other than in official Church doctrines, fables and rituals, which remain in desperate need of renewal.”

The article can no longer be found on the diocesan website, but the complete text is still here: http://listserv.episcopalian.org/wa.exe?A2=ind0005d&L=news&T=0&O=D&F;=&S;=&P=431

[48] Posted by LongGone on 7-2-2008 at 04:55 PM · [top]

Tom Woodward of The Episcopal Majority.

“When some church leaders from around the world charge homosexual people in loving, committed relationships with sexual immorality or rebellion against the will of God, they undermine the very basis of our faith – not just as Episcopalians, but as Christians.”

“Doesn’t that mean that St. Paul may not have gotten homosexuality right?

Given all we know about real people in real relationships, living out their lives with all the marks of the Holy Spirit and in full dedication of their lives together to Jesus Christ, do we even have to ask? Our inherited moral codes regarding homosexual relationships were based on little more than a few verses from the Jewish purity code and the feeling that such behavior was ‘sick’ or ‘nasty’ or ‘dirty.’ Today we have a choice. We can choose to hold on to that inheritance, or we can base our morality in the context of observing the loving, caring, and committed relationships among people we know. Sexual and interpersonal morality should be no different for married heterosexual couples than for partnered same-gender couples; there is behavior that is hurtful and cruel in both, as well as behavior that is loving and life-giving in both. We can tell the difference. Really, we can.”

“When you get right down to it, ‘the faith once delivered to the saints’ usually translates to ‘What I wish Jesus had established as an ethic for all time.’ However, as noted above, Jesus’ ethics bear little resemblance to what those who nowadays call for ‘the faith once delivered to the saints’ have in mind. The use of the phrase, ‘the faith once delivered to the saints’ can mean only one thing: ‘Beware! Christian hoax ahead!’”

[49] Posted by William Witt on 7-2-2008 at 04:58 PM · [top]

On April 21st of this year, the president of the House of Deputies, Bonnie Anderson said, “In the Episcopal Church the belief that God speaks uniquely through bishops, laity, priests and deacons, enables our participatory structure and allows a fullness of revelation and insight.”
On June 1,she reiterated this principle.

[50] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 7-2-2008 at 05:42 PM · [top]

Bishop Chanwe in article for the Guardian
“Christians who want to deny others the blessings they claim for themselves should not assume they speak for the Almighty.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/26/anglicanism.religion

[51] Posted by art+ on 7-2-2008 at 06:27 PM · [top]

The Chicago Consultation, a group of some 50 bishops, clergy and lay people, supports the full inclusion of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered Christians in the Episcopal Church and the worldwide Anglican Communion. 
Bishops who have participated in the Consultation include: The Most Rev. Martin de Jesus Barahona, Primate of the Anglican Church of the Central Region of America (IARCA) and Bishop of El Salvador; the Most Rev. Carlos Touche-Porter, Primate of La Iglesia Anglicana de Mexico and Bishop of Mexico; the Rt. Rev. Mark Beckwith, Bishop of Newark; the Rt. Rev. Bruce Caldwell, Bishop of Wyoming; the Rt. Rev. Sergio Carranza, Bishop Assisting of Los Angeles; the Rt. Rev. John Chane, Bishop of Washington; the Rt. Rev. Tom Ely, Bishop of Vermont; the Rt. Rev. Celso Franco de Oliveria, Bishop of Rio de Janeiro, Igreja Episcopal Anglicana do Brasil; the Rt. Rev. Michael Ingham, Bishop of New Westminster, Anglican Church of Canada; the Rt. Rev. Jeff Lee, Bishop of Chicago; the Rt. Rev. Gene Robinson, Bishop of New Hampshire and the Rt. Rev. Orris (Ja) Walker, Bishop of Long Island.

The Chicago Consultation, a group of some 50 bishops, clergy and lay people, supports the full inclusion of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered Christians in the Episcopal Church and the worldwide Anglican Communion. 
The Chicago Consultation, a group of some 50 bishops, clergy and lay people, supports the full inclusion of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered Christians in the Episcopal Church and the worldwide Anglican Communion.

[52] Posted by art+ on 7-2-2008 at 06:30 PM · [top]

There are numerous quotes in the Remain Faithful position paper which can be found on our website- http://www.remainfaithful.org/.

Please also consider joining with us- there is no cost and there is strength in numbers- we are growing rapidly into the largest voice of the laity- it is about time the Silent Majority stand up!

[53] Posted by cbates on 7-2-2008 at 06:44 PM · [top]

June 1 2004 letter to clergy
Given the actions of General Convention meeting in Minneapolis last summer relating to such blessings, I am ready to move forward as your bishop to affirm and bless Michael and John’s relationship and also to provide the diocese with an order of service for the blessing of covenanted relationships that could be useful to clergy of the diocese who choose to bless such relationships.

[54] Posted by art+ on 7-2-2008 at 06:46 PM · [top]

Two quotes from Bp. Michael Ingham, New Westminster, Canada:

‘It’s time for Christians to drop the idea that Christ is the one sure way to salvation’.
—Ottawa Citizen in September 26, 1997. (documented here)

And then there was a well-known lecture +Ingham gave in 1998 to the Ottawa School of Lay Theology extolling the virtues of Pluralism:

  Can modern Christians learn to sing two religious tunes at the same time? Can we sing the song of the Christian tradition, the Nicene Creed, the hymns, songs and poetry of our ancient and lovely tradition, which proclaim Jesus Christ as redeemer of the world and saviour of all humanity - and can we at the same time sing the song of the inter-faith movement, which proclaims the saving activity of God in other ways, an infinite variety of ways, in this diverse and complex world? Can we sing the Lord’s song as we have come to learn it, and a new song which places God at the heart of the universe, God at the centre of other ways of believing, God who is ultimately beyond our knowing and even perhaps beyond our religion? Are they in fact different songs?

  Well, one will be a Christocentric song - that is, a song centred in Jesus Christ as the final revelation of God for us. The other will be a Theocentric song, which we will learn to sing with others who love, worship and obey God by a different name. If you say this is intellectually dishonest, that these songs are disharmonious and incompatible, a blasphemy against Christ, then I would say, try it and see. God works much more effectively through music than theology in my experience.

  In fact, we do sing different songs all the time. We couldn’t live in the modern world unless we did. We sing ancient hymns written when people thought the earth was flat, and we translate them in our minds. We read sacred texts that presuppose ideas we no longer believe in, but we search those texts for eternal truths which still illumine and inspire us. We listen to language that excludes but hear it as including us, inviting us in. We are modern technological people, computer nerds, scientists, or at least deeply influenced by a scientific world, and yet we dance in circles, we pray to the invisible depths, we hold truths that are incapable of verification by anything except the soul.

source

And yup, he’s invited to Lambeth in spite of these heresies and all the damage he has done to the Anglican Communion through his unilateral push to bless same-sex unions and his rampage against traditionalist clergy and parishes.

[55] Posted by The_Elves on 7-2-2008 at 07:21 PM · [top]

In my comment just above, I linked a VERY helpful source which documents many instances of heresy with detailed footnotes as to sources and dates.  I’m not sure if any one else has linked it as I’ve only skimmed the comments here.

Check it out. It’s from the Anglican Church League Sydney, and is entitled The Anglican Debacle

—-
Great thread Stand Firm!  Thank you for setting this up.  It’s important.

[56] Posted by The_Elves on 7-2-2008 at 07:26 PM · [top]

Wayne injects some “levity” into the discussion:

How about weak coffee at coffee hour? Pick a parish, you’ll find that heresy…
Or…acolytes in white *gasp* sneakers—worse yet, in flip flops!
And then there’s always priests in pale blue “clergy shirts”
(Just trying to inject a little levity into this rant.)

If you thought that was funny, here’s some more levity. 

I’m glad Wayne’s here, to keep us from getting uptight about the possibility of some people not spending Eternity in the Presence of the Lord, and to keep us from apoplexy over the folks who help send them there.

[57] Posted by J Eppinga on 7-2-2008 at 07:54 PM · [top]

That is the sad part, Moot.  People are being led down the primrose path to perdition by these apostate clergy and bishops.  They are being taught false doctrine by people they trust—-the ordained. 

There are some very good links on this thread.  Thanks for the information.

[58] Posted by terrafirma on 7-2-2008 at 08:22 PM · [top]

[59] Posted by Uh Clint on 7-2-2008 at 08:30 PM · [top]

Feminism eucharist—“Pearls:  God’s Holy Irritants”
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/1071

[60] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 7-2-2008 at 09:01 PM · [top]

Saving Jesus. Alpha for Liberals. Running at a local Episcopal (and others) church near you.

Some sample material:
http://www.livingthequestions.com/xcart/files/dvd/saving_jesus/03_What_can_we_know_.pdf

“I’m struck by how creative the early Christians were. They put so many words in Jesus’ mouth—I think that’s very exciting. It shows that the early Church was totally turned on with this creativity. Where has all that creativity gone? Where has it all gone? We’ve got to bring it back alive.”

Some comments from someone who attended:
http://www.jendireiter.com/2007/04/01/saving-jesus-episode-10-bad-news-for-people-who-love-good-news.aspx
“But then they leap from this story to rejecting the entire idea of Christ dying for our sins”

“This is why it’s such a travesty to be showing this DVD series under the auspices of a church. Its whole agenda and methodology are about subordinating Christianity to modernism, treating the faith as a wholly human creation to be reshaped for our changing purposes, not as a revelation from God that also reshapes us. If the church can’t make the case for God’s sovereignty, who will? !”

Thats only one installment. Jendi Reiter has a write up on nearly every week of the course.

http://jendireiter.com/2007/01/25/saving-jesus-episode-3-book-em-danno.aspx
“Last night’s Saving Jesus DVD was titled “What can we know about Jesus and how?” but the real topic was the unreliability of the Bible. “

Do a google search on “saving Jesus” to find a church running this heresy near you. There are thousands of them.

From their website:
http://www.livingthequestions.com/xcart/pages.php?pageid=4
“Despite its humble origins, the response to LtQ has been remarkable. With the original program alone being used by well over 2500 churches and other groups across the U.S., Canada, the UK, Australia and New Zealand (as well as several other countries), it’s clear that a nerve has been struck!”

[61] Posted by Observing on 7-2-2008 at 09:08 PM · [top]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2007-02-04-jefferts-schori-cover_x.htm

“She sees two strands of faith: One is “most concerned with atonement, that Jesus died for our sins and our most important task is to repent.” But the other is “the more gracious strand,” says the bishop who dresses like a sunrise.

It “is to talk about life, to claim the joy and the blessings for good that it offers, to look forward.

“God became human in order that we may become divine. That’s our task.”

[62] Posted by Observing on 7-2-2008 at 09:30 PM · [top]

The ‘almost’ Bishop of Oxford
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54974

“Rev. Jeffrey John, who was forced to withdraw before assuming a position as bishop in 2003 after it was learned he was in a longterm homosexual relationship, is scheduled to appear on Wednesday and will criticize ministers who use their Easter messages to preach that Jesus was sent to earth to die as an atonement for sin, reported the London Telegraph.

Christian theology has taught the doctrine of “penal substitution” – that humans, alienated from God by their sins and unable to save themselves, could only be forgiven by God sending Christ as a substitute to suffer and die in their place.

“In other words, Jesus took the rap and we got forgiven as long as we said we believed in him,” said John. “This is repulsive as well as nonsensical. It makes God sound like a psychopath. If a human behaved like this we’d say that they [sic] were a monster.”

[63] Posted by Observing on 7-2-2008 at 09:35 PM · [top]

It is all so damn sad.  How did this happen?  How did so many God fearing people get blindsided by this outright assault on their faith and church?  Why did the shepherds not protect their sheep?  Why did so many of them invite the wolves in?  Why were so many themselves wolves? 

How long oh Lord, must your people wait for you to hear their cry?  Answer them oh Lord and pull them out of the depths.  Their hope is in You alone.  Make haste to save them oh Lord.  They trust in your mercy and justice.

[64] Posted by Paula Loughlin on 7-2-2008 at 09:40 PM · [top]

This is quite a catalog of heresies among the bishops, priests, and deacons of the TEC.  Sufficient to merit charges, that is if the TEC had any official doctrinal standards.  While individual charges may have some benefit, the real heresy is that the TEC is unable to defend the Gospel (in part because it is unable to think or work theologically).  The lack of discipline in defense of the Gospel presents a theological failing of the first order.  This failure is one of denying Christ.  Failing to stand-up for the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the same as denying both the reality and truthfulness of the Gospel.  The orthodox bishops should present charges on this basis against the leadership of the TEC.

[65] Posted by Firm Tractarian on 7-2-2008 at 09:46 PM · [top]

Try Googling - “Anne Fowler” Episcopal

She needs our prayers.

[66] Posted by Dr. N. on 7-2-2008 at 09:50 PM · [top]

Folks, if anyone understands the need to vent after reading all this, it’s me, so don’t take this personally, but let’s keep the comments to descriptions and link. Save discussion for elsewhere.

[67] Posted by Greg Griffith on 7-2-2008 at 09:52 PM · [top]

Another from Father Gawain - St. Bartholomew’s
http://stbartswp.dioceseny.org/node/292

[68] Posted by Jeff Weiesnbach on 7-2-2008 at 09:57 PM · [top]

Michael Ingham on same sex blessings.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070626.wanglicanQA/BNStory/specialComment/home

Michael Ingham on his book Manions of the Spirit and response by Packer:

http://www.canadianchristianity.com/cgi-bin/bc.cgi?bc/bccn/1297/phipps

I love this one from Christianity today and the now removed “Women’s Eucharist”:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/octoberweb-only/10-25-21.0.html

[69] Posted by justice1 on 7-2-2008 at 09:58 PM · [top]

Greg, I apologize but after a while one does get overwhelmed with there being so many examples.  You can almost do a random google of Episcopal Parishes and pull forth evidence of the heresy circus playing in town.

[70] Posted by Paula Loughlin on 7-2-2008 at 09:58 PM · [top]

In the Dioceses of Niagra newspaper you linked in another thread . There was an article where the author claimed God was not only incarnate in Jesus but in all of Creation.  I wish I could remember the title but that part did stand out in my mind.

[71] Posted by Paula Loughlin on 7-2-2008 at 10:01 PM · [top]

1993…

Don’t forget the 1800 MANFINDER drama from 815…documented by the then Director of Episcopalians United (Todd Wetzel), when I was the Chairman.

The Youth Ministries Office at Episcopal Church Center.  Some time ago, this office released a brochure entitled “What Young People Should Know About Aids.” 

Incredibly, it was sent at Church expense to thousands of youth
across the nation.

The back cover of the brochure instructs young people to call 1-800-767-4297 for “vital life and death information” provided by a “counseling” hotline operated by the National Gay and Lesbian Task force.

However, the number is actually that of “Manfinder.”  It advises callers to stay on the line for “the hottest gay phone sex around.”  A mistake?  Maybe. 

[72] Posted by DHR on 7-2-2008 at 10:12 PM · [top]

Almost anything on Louie Crew’s website - especially the poetry.

http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~lcrew/

[73] Posted by R. Scott Purdy on 7-2-2008 at 10:13 PM · [top]

Labyrinths:
They are at 100’s of Episcopal churches. New age nonsense.
Find all the episcopal churches with them:
http://wwll.veriditas.labyrinthsociety.org/
Whats wrong with them:
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/04/labyrinth-muse.htm
http://eternalpath.com/labyrinth.html

[74] Posted by Observing on 7-2-2008 at 10:41 PM · [top]

Doesn’t the Executive Council’s affiliation with the RCRC count?  Their unlimited abortion policy is not in keeping with the Episcopal Church’s own resolution that (as I recall) frowned on abortion except in a few unusual circumstances.  I really don’t know why the change in abortion policy (decided by fiat in the council and withheld from the floor at the last GC) has not been a presenting issue in statements of our difference from TEC.  I know it has been THE reason that some of us   could not stay in the Episcopal Church, yet we seldom hear anything about it in terms of a separative issue.

[75] Posted by Paula on 7-2-2008 at 10:50 PM · [top]

Oh, and it’s been so long since I thought about this one! See the Center For Progressive Christianity. It defines itself by Eight Points, including that they “Recognize the faithfulness of other people who have other names for the way to God’s realm, and acknowledge that their ways are true for them, as our ways are true for us.”

There are currently 82 Episcopal Parishes that identify themselves as affiliates of this organization.

[76] Posted by LongGone on 7-2-2008 at 11:31 PM · [top]

Brian McLaren is teaching at Lambeth in a few weeks and delivered the keynote at the Diocese of Washington evangelism conference http://www.edow.org/news/window/2008/may/mclareninterview.html

Some samples:
http://www.brianmclaren.net/emc/archives/McLaren - John 14.6.pdf
Where he explains his theory that Jesus is not the only way.
Some other thoughts:
http://jamespressgang.blogspot.com/2008/02/reflections-on-brian-mcclaren-emerging.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_McLaren

[77] Posted by Observing on 7-2-2008 at 11:37 PM · [top]

Photos of Bishop Shaw, Bishop Cederholm and Bishop Harris listening to Marcus Borg:
http://www.diomass.org/multimedia/photo_galleries/0803-Borg
More about what Borg teaches:
http://www.ucmpage.org/articles/jmiles5.html
“Of this popular image he writes, “In short, the image of the historical Jesus as a divine or semi-divine being, who saw himself as the divine savior whose purpose was to die for the sins of the world, and whose message consisted of proclaiming that, is simply not true.“pg. 6

Jesus according to Borg is not the ‘only son of God’, “If ‘beloved Son’ is taken to mean ‘unique’ Son of God in the sense in which the church uses that term, then the phrase must be viewed as historically suspect.” pg. 41

Further, Borg states that Jesus did not view himself as the Son of God, “If ‘Son of God’ is used in the special Christian sense which emerges in the rest of the New Testament (by the time of Paul and John, preexistent with God from before creation; by the time of Matthew and Luke, conceived by the Spirit and born of a virgin), then almost certainly Jesus did not think of himself as the Son of God.” pg.49

Jesus did not die because he wanted to atone for the sins of the world rather, “He was killed because he sought, in the name and power of the Spirit, the transformation of his own culture. He issued a call for a relationship with God that would lead to a new ethos and thus a new politics. For that goal he gave his life, even though his death was not his primary intention.” pg.184

He goes on to reject the resurrection as an objective historical event, “Though the story of the historical Jesus ends with his death on a Friday in A.D. 30, the story of Jesus does not end there” pg.184

Borg rejects the Christian claim that Jesus is the Son of God, Rather he is one, presumably among many icons of God. He writes, “As such, he was an ‘image’ of God, an ‘icon’ of God, revealing and mediating the divine reality”. pg 191

For Borg the picture of Jesus found in the Apostles and Nicene Creeds are simply wrong pg. 3. Jesus is not THE image of God but rather AN image of God. According to Borg Jesus did not go to the cross as an act of atonement for sin. Indeed sin is never mentioned in Borg’s, new vision. ”

[78] Posted by Observing on 7-3-2008 at 01:08 AM · [top]

More ‘education’ of the clergy

http://transfigurations.blogspot.com/2006/07/central-new-york-episcopal-diocese.html

“Last summer the diocese brought Jesus Seminar theologian Marcus Borg to Syracuse to teach the clergy of the diocese. Since Borg openly rejects many of the teachings of the Christian faith, such as the Trinity, the virgin birth of Jesus, and the resurrection of Jesus, relations between St. Andrew’s and the bishop have deteriorated. “They simply believe a new religion which is foreign to the historic faith of the Church,” said Dague.”

[79] Posted by Observing on 7-3-2008 at 01:31 AM · [top]

1. The 1987 publication and distribution of “Sexuality: A Divine Gift,” funded and published by the national church, for use with teens among others. It contradicted traditional teaching on sexuality, including only pro-gay references, and encouraged experimentation.  Syndicated newspaper columnist Mike McManus exposed it nationally before the internet and sites like Stand Firm. When one “moderate” Southern Bishop sent a letter to all members of his Diocese disputing McManus’ claims as uninformed, McManus published a follow up column with direct quotes from the publication. The Bishop, and Church leadership, was busted.

2. Bishop John S. Spong’s 1990 ordination of J. Robert Williams as the first publicized, openly homosexual man into the priesthood of the Episcopal Church.  Spong proclaimed he had carefully vetted Williams and was “proud” of the breakthrough. Within a few weeks, Williams appeared at a forum and called celibacy ‘‘inherently negative’‘, monogamy as “unnecessary” and “as unnatural as celibacy.’’ He topped topped it off with a vulgar reference to Mother Teresa. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE7D8173CF931A25751C0A966958260

3. The circumstances discribed in Penthouse magazine’s 1997 December issue, in an article called, “The Boys from Brazil.” The magazine alleged that it had uncovered a “secret cadre of gay and bisexual cross-dressing Episcopal priests whose private lives include the most bizarre rituals imaginable.” http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_n36_v113/ai_18962917. Even a subsequent Diocisian “investigation” conceded that some of the allegations were true.

4.  Revelations that the late NY Bishop Paul Moore, a liberal Church icon, engaged in multiple relationships with men while a married Bishop.http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/03/03/080303fa_fact_moore

[80] Posted by Going Home on 7-3-2008 at 02:07 AM · [top]

#80. That article in number 3 appears to have been retracted:
http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~lcrew/penth2.html

[81] Posted by Observing on 7-3-2008 at 03:17 AM · [top]

Spong overview article

[82] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 7-3-2008 at 04:30 AM · [top]

We are called to bles

[83] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 7-3-2008 at 05:04 AM · [top]

We are called to bless Israel (Genesis 12:3, Numbers 22-24, Psalm 122).  There are many instances of TEC doing the opposite. 
media
Khatami speech at Washington National Cathedral
Bp Chane makes multiple visits to nation committed to annihilating Israel and participates in anti-Zionist conference

[84] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 7-3-2008 at 05:15 AM · [top]

Not so much an affirmation but a bureaucraticly enabled dismissal, but don’t forget what happened to General Convention resolutions B001 (recognition of historic documents) and D058 (salvation through Christ alone).

[85] Posted by Boring Bloke on 7-3-2008 at 06:10 AM · [top]

Scotland: T19 recently posted an article by the Bishop of Edinburgh. It’s full of goodness, but perhaps the “best” bit is his suggestion that the three persons of the Trinity are in a state of “painful” “conflict” against each other, and therefore it is good and right that we have this conflict in the church.

[86] Posted by Boring Bloke on 7-3-2008 at 06:19 AM · [top]

[87] Posted by Edwin on 7-3-2008 at 07:55 AM · [top]

Someone already posted a link to Spong’s “Twelve Theses”, but here’s another one, showing them still hosted on the official website of the Diocese of Newark: http://www.dioceseofnewark.org/jsspong/reform.html

(My favorite: “The view of the cross as the sacrifice for the sins of the world is a barbarian idea based on primitive concepts of God and must be dismissed.”)

[88] Posted by LongGone on 7-3-2008 at 11:51 AM · [top]

I really don’t have a problem with Spong believing what he does. He’s a bit muddled and there’s absolutely nothing original there at all.

What I do have a problem with is that he believes what he does and then remains a bishop. His beliefs are not compatible in any sense with what he promised to do when he became a bishop.

Further, knowing that the man is and has been lying and certainly is a hypocrite, how could anyone possibly believe anything he says?

Lastly and much more snarkily than usual, I would pay good money to see a steel cage match between Bishop Robinson’s ego and Bishop Spong’s ego. Always assuming that a large enough venue could be found.

I have finally reached my plateau

[89] Posted by Matthew A (formerly mousestalker) on 7-3-2008 at 12:01 PM · [top]

Observing, even the Long Island Diocese’s own “report” on the affair, which spun it in the best possible light, confirmed some of the most disturbing allegations. http://www.villagelife.org/church/archives/eps_penthouse.html

[90] Posted by Going Home on 7-3-2008 at 01:07 PM · [top]

But to be clear, Observer, you are correct that Penthouse retracted the article as part of a settlement of a lawsuit. It is clear that many of the most sensational allegations, such as the orgies, were not substantiated. I would just let the Diocisian report speak for itself and be the source. Thanks for pointing out the retraction.

[91] Posted by Going Home on 7-3-2008 at 01:11 PM · [top]

#91 - Agree the diocese report is probably the best source.

At this point its probably also worth referencing Matt’s series: “Has the Episcopal church been falsely accused?”

To ensure someone reading this cannot argue:
- that we are just picking out isolated cases which any church would have
- that someone reading this doesn’t just pick out a few cases above and find a problem with those and therefore dismiss the whole list.

http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/has_the_episcopal_church_really_been_falsely_accused_part_1/
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/has_the_episcopal_church_really_been_falsely_accused_part_ii/
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/1090/
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/1093/
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/1116/

I would argue that this list does not represent all TEC churches. But it represents a considerable number of them - and the fact that no action is taken, and that in many cases its leaders are participating means there is a problem.

[92] Posted by Observing on 7-3-2008 at 01:43 PM · [top]

An example of modalism in the 79 BCP.

[93] Posted by tired on 7-3-2008 at 02:03 PM · [top]

To add to #66 : Rev Anne Fowler’s justification of abortion:
Abortion as a Moral Choice

The key paragraphs :

At another point, a few years later, I did have an abortion. I was a single mother, working and pursuing a path to ordination in the Episcopal Church. The potential father was not someone I would have married; he would have been no better a candidate for fatherhood than my daughter’s absent father. The timing was wrong, the man was wrong, and I easily, though not happily, made the decision to terminate the pregnancy.

I have not the slightest regret about either of these decisions, nor the slightest guilt. I felt sorrow and loss at the time of my abortion, but less so than when I’d miscarried some years earlier. Both of my choices, I believe, were right for me and my circumstances: morally correct in their context, practical, and fruitful in their outcomes.

[94] Posted by Kevin S. on 7-3-2008 at 05:02 PM · [top]

Kevin S. [94], check the website of her church - there are sermons, pictures, etc. She and her “church” have other interests.

The quote you point to is the one that first disturbed me and led me from TEC. Now I find so much more that is troubling about her “ministry”.

[95] Posted by Dr. N. on 7-3-2008 at 07:46 PM · [top]

I went to the Dio of Washington’s website to check out +Chane. Their daily readings page is now linked with Episcopal Cafe. Today’s readings is on Benjamin Franklin.
Daily Reading for July 3:
[Benjamin] Franklin was also among those Deists who remained open to the possibility of divine intervention or special providence in human affairs. . . . Unlike radical, or anti-Christian Deists, Franklin perceived that organized religion could benefit society by encouraging public virtue as well as by promoting social order. He believed in a benevolent Creator, whom humans should worship through virtuous behavior. Thus Franklin urged his daughter Sarah to “go constantly to church.” He himself was an infrequent churchgoer. But because he developed a certain fondness for ceremony and ritual, the church he most frequently attended was Christ Church, one of Philadelphia’s three Episcopal churches. . . .

Insatiably curious, ambivalent about religion, prudent in his declarations about it, offended by dogmatism and intolerance, opposed to the highly emotional conversion experiences of the Great Awakening, Franklin made morality primary in his interpretation of religion. Like other Deists, he believed that humans served God best when they performed good works on behalf of humanity and society. “I think vital religion has always suffered,” Franklin wrote to his parents shortly after his thirtieth birthday, “when orthodoxy is more regarded than virtues.”
http://www.episcopalcafe.com/thesoul/daily_reading/the_faith_of_franklin_1.html
Sounds familiar. +Schori also believes that salvation can be achieved through good works.
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/11/22006a.asp

[96] Posted by martin5 on 7-3-2008 at 11:54 PM · [top]

I had posted this on the Chane thread, but I’m afraid it will get lost in the shuffle.  So, here goes again:
6/08 Episcopal Life letter to the editor by Rev. John Beverley Butcher, author of The Tao of Jesus, recommends omitting the Nicene Creed
6/08 “I urge you to encourage all couples, regardless of orientation, to follow the pattern of first being married in a secular service, and then being blessed in the Episcopal Church,” Bishop Marc Handley Andrus wrote his clergy June 9.
6/08 Find webpage of All Saints, Corpus Christi.  The purpose statement is “Celebrating the Divine in prayer and action.”  Core values include “We are committed to finding innovative ways of experiencing God’s presence in all Sacred Traditions.”
1/08 Hindu-Christian interfaith service
1/08 Buddhist mandala constructed at Philadelphia cathedral
1/08 Native American smudgers at bishop consecration
12/07 [url=“http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/8199/“href= “http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/8289/”> “Trans-Spirituality, Trans-Gender, Trans-Spirit, and Transforming”</a> workshop offered by Oasis, Newark
12/07 Sacramento cathedral hosts<a ]Tibetan Buddhists [/url] to construct mandala and hold Medicine Buddha Healing Ceremony
12/07 Seattle parish offers astrology workshop
10/07 Sufi dance taught in Seattle cathedral
9/07 Navajo teachers and medicine men help with a Navajo blessing ceremony during consecration of bishop
6/07 Interfaith baptism in Newark (Muslim and Jewish prayers added to Christian liturgy)
5/07 A liberal Episcopal layman/ordained Sufi leads Sufi healing circle meetings at St. Philip’s Cathedral, Atlanta, GA
4/07 A copyrighted Liturgy of Invitation was celebrated by the Episcopal Committee on Science, Techology, and Faith.  Readings included antitheistic philosophy.  (Not on SF.)
9/06 A Tibetan Buddhist lama leads a guided meditation for EDS seminarians & faculty.
5/06 Episcopal Bookstore offers pagan book Love Potions for sale online.
4/06 Wiccan priest/Episcopal layman surfaces, having had essays published on the Oasis blog and Father Jake’s blog and Louie Crew’s blog.
4/05 Two Druid/Episcopal priests exposed in Pennsylvania.
5/04 A transgender shaman/pagan priest and a witch are featured speakers at a conference partly sponsored by the Episcopal diocese of Michigan GLBT outreach group
1/95 Gaia mass in Grace Cathedral, San Francisco

[97] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 7-4-2008 at 07:38 AM · [top]

Rev Clayton Morris, liturgical officer for TEC, explains the Eucharist.

[98] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 7-4-2008 at 07:52 AM · [top]

I can’t find the link, but there was an article in Episcopal Life, I think, where a priest had members of his congregation stand for each phrase of the Nicene Creed they actually believed.  It was sort of a liturgical variation of musical chairs.

[99] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 7-4-2008 at 07:59 AM · [top]

Jill I hope you keep back-ups of your computer hard because you have managed to document so much. I’m sure the revisionists would like to see all of this just disappear.

[100] Posted by bob+ on 7-4-2008 at 08:16 AM · [top]

Jill - [99] - I believe that was our old buddy Tom Woodward.

[101] Posted by Greg Griffith on 7-4-2008 at 08:32 AM · [top]

“If you must make a choice between heresy and schism, always choose heresy,” said the Rt. Rev. Peter J. Lee to 500 Episcopalians meeting for the annual diocesan council at the Hyatt Regency in Reston.
http://www.washtimes.com/news/2004/jan/31/20040131-120323-2290r/

[102] Posted by Doug L on 7-4-2008 at 08:35 AM · [top]

Many of the teachings of the Revd Canon Professor Marilyn McCord Adams, Regius Professor of Divinity at Oxford University—there is so much heresy, one doesn’t know where to begin, and it is frankly bizarre at times.  This link is where I first was aware of her, but after reading the comment thread, I realized it only scratched the surface.

[103] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 7-4-2008 at 08:47 AM · [top]

bob+, thanks for the tip.  Done.

[104] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 7-4-2008 at 09:08 AM · [top]

One of my favorite unintentionally ironic examples is Tom Woodward’s defense of the Episcopal Church against being falsely accused of endorsing various heresies, only to admit that in all but one accusation that there are indeed plenty of examples of Episcopalians who embrace the various heresies. 

So, Tom says that “most in our church believe Jesus to be the sole path to salvation.”  Of course, a lot don’t, and that’s okay because Paul didn’t believe that either.

Tom says that Episcopalians have been falsely accused of believing that “The Holy Scriptures are historical relics and are not be taken seriously.”  Then, throughout the article he says that Paul was wrong about homosexuality, that Paul contradicts Matthew’s doctrine of the resurrection, that Paul contradicts John 14:6, that there are “conflicting notions” of heaven and hell in the Scriptures, that Marcus Borg and John Spong “have [both]contributed to the welfare of the whole spectrum of our church, that Borg “has few peers,” that “[t]hose who have the most trouble with theologians and Biblical scholars like Marcus Borg are those who insist on the literal meaning of Scripture or something close to that,” and those who do take the Bible literally practice a “quasi-Fundamentalist approach” to Scripture.

But the Episcopal Church has been “falsely accused.”

[105] Posted by William Witt on 7-4-2008 at 09:16 AM · [top]

How about this from Church of England Bishop Stephen Lowe:

Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation for me”, he said, “but I don’t want to impose that on other people

[106] Posted by English Jill on 7-4-2008 at 09:42 AM · [top]

English Jill,
Happy Independence Day.  : )
Bp Lowe’s statement isn’t heresy; it is evidence of the fear to be obedient, and, thus, without metanoia, blatant disobedience of God’s will (sin).

[107] Posted by Rob Eaton+ on 7-4-2008 at 11:38 AM · [top]

Jill (98), I think the fwepiscopal link had so many hits that the site went down (at any rate, couldn’t get the link to work.  But I think this is an alternate for the Rev. Morris’ opinions on the Eucharist-

http://www.episcopalchurch.org/81834_96113_ENG_HTM.htm

[108] Posted by tjmcmahon on 7-4-2008 at 11:54 AM · [top]

Re: #88 “...Lastly and much more snarkily than usual, I would pay good money to see a steel cage match between Bishop Robinson’s ego and Bishop Spong’s ego. Always assuming that a large enough venue could be found…”

Nah - remember, VGR is a “humble country bishop” - - no big ego there….

[109] Posted by Opie56 on 7-4-2008 at 12:40 PM · [top]

June 22, 2008.  Schori to South Dakota Native Americans: New life is not in Christ but in our own actions.

“I have been struck by a couple of things during my time here,” she said. “The great tradition of giveaway—it’s a sacramental way that when we lose our life for God we find it again. No one can kill the soul in this place as long as you know that.”
She added, “And your deep rooted sense of humor,” which evoked bales of laughter.
Jefferts Schori concluded: “No one can kill the soul as long as you can find new life in the midst of what the world brings. I give thanks for you for your witness and I am utterly confident that God is in your midst and life abundant is present in this place, and you are witnesses to that. May God continue to fill you with the confidence that he’s always doing a new thing in your midst.”

From here: http://www.episcopalchurch.org/79901_98326_ENG_HTM.htm

[110] Posted by Timothy Fountain on 7-4-2008 at 04:02 PM · [top]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/features/20080621-9999-1c21deacon.html
open gay deacon makes headlines in San Diego. Do all new deacons make headlines?

[111] Posted by martin5 on 7-4-2008 at 05:19 PM · [top]

More on South Dakota ....
“It’s a time of ferment, which can be enormously positively,” Jefferts Schori said. “You look at a vat of beer and sometimes it doesn’t smell very good – but there’s a lot of good work going on there, and the product smells better than the process. Something like that’s going on in the Anglican Communion.”

http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2008/06/19/news/local/doc485aea18c6aef963057361.txt

[112] Posted by martin5 on 7-4-2008 at 05:22 PM · [top]

*BISHOP PLUMMER CHARGED WITH SEXUAL
MISCONDUCT: THE CHURCH AND THE MEDIA
REACT*

THE PRESIDING BISHOP’S LETTER

May 26, 1993

To the members of the House of Bishops

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

I write to share with you a painful matter in the
life of our House and our church. I also want to ask
your prayers that we may approach these difficult
realities as God would have us do, and that healing will
proceed for all concerned.

More than two years ago the Rt. Rev. Steven T.
Plummer, bishop of Navajoland Area Mission since
March 1990, contacted me to tell me that he had
engaged in sexual activity with a male minor in a breach
of a trust relationship over a period of time ending
approximately four years ago.

I requested a thorough medical and
psychological evaluation of Bishop Plummer at a highly
respected medical institution. The evaluation indicated
that he was not “at risk” for repeating the behavior. He
has been undergoing therapy since that time and I have
continued to monitor the situation and to keep in touch
with Steven and Cathy.

At the time Bishop Plummer brought this matter to me
the young man was no longer a minor and unwilling to
pursue this any further. As is always the case in
instances of sexual misconduct, the protection of the
right to privacy of a victim is a primary consideration.
The healing of the young man continues to be of grave
concern to me.

This situation was discussed at a meeting on May
8, 1993 in Farmington, New Mexico of the Council,
Standing Committee and Staff of the Episcopal Church
in Navajoland. At the meeting, the Rev. Gary Sosa, a
deacon of Navajoland, made a statement that included
a report that some two years ago Bishop Plummer had
told him in confidence of the relationship with the
young man. Bishop Plummer made a brief response
and asked for prayers. He indicated that he is taking
responsibility for his healing, and that he believes God
has forgiven him.

After a two-week period for prayerful
consideration, the Council reconvened for a special
meeting at my request on May 22. The purpose of the
meeting was to review all of the information and to
discuss their recommendation to me concerning the
ministry of Bishop Plummer amongst the Navajo
people. Enclosed is a copy of a resolution they passed
unanimously. I commend the Council for moving to
consensus around a painful issue. The spirit of their
resolution and the compassion they have shown
indicates to me that a process of healing is beginning.

The recommendation of the Council has been
helpful to me as I have made some decisions concerning
the next steps. I note that in addition to my pastoral
concern for Steven and Cathy Plummer, their families,
the victim, and others most closely involved, also of
tremendous concern is our Indian ministry, and
specifically the ongoing ministry of the Episcopal
Church in Navajoland.

At my request Bishop Plummer has commenced
a one-year leave of absence during which time he has
agreed not to perform any priestly or episcopal
functions without my permission. He will continue in
closely monitored program of therapy. In addition, I
have asked the Rt. Rev. Stewart Zabriskie, who as
Bishop of Nevada is in a neighboring area, to serve as a
mentor for Steven and his family.

In the meantime, I have appointed the Rt. Rev.
William Wantland, Bishop of Eau Claire, who is the
senior active Native American bishop, as the Interim
Bishop of the Navajoland Area Mission. Bill has
graciously accepted this responsibility. I have also
conferred and will continue to be in consultation with
the Native American leadership of the church about the
ministry of Navajoland. Specifically, I have been in
consultation with the Episcopal Council of Indian
Ministries and asked their help in the evaluation both
long and short range of the mission and ministry of
Navajoland.

Prior to the end of the one-year period the situation will
be reviewed to determine most appropriate next steps
for Steven and his ministry, and for the ministry of
Navajoland. As the House of Bishops has ultimate
responsibility for the program and oversight of the
Navajoland Area Mission, I will then communicate with
the House concerning any actions that might be needed
as the 1994 General Convention.

In closing I again ask for your prayers. Let us
pray that the healing love of Christ will transform the
pain of this situation and that redemption can be found.

Faithfully yours,
The Most Rev. Edmond L. Browning
Presiding Bishop

Quoted at http://titusonenine.classicalanglican.net/index.php?p=5852 ,  comment 12

[113] Posted by Jim the Puritan on 7-5-2008 at 12:30 AM · [top]

The updated wiki timeline in #16 should become a permanent product of this Site which is constantly updated.  What a valuable resource.

[114] Posted by Capt. Father Warren on 7-5-2008 at 09:07 AM · [top]

Another Tucson priest (Grace St. Paul’s) avoids using word “Lord” because of its power imagery.  See #24.

[115] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 7-5-2008 at 11:16 AM · [top]

Guys, the Wiki timeline was done by Andy Figueroa, a former poster here at Stand Firm.  It was introduced here.

[116] Posted by JackieB on 7-5-2008 at 04:29 PM · [top]

Jackie, add to all of this the AAC’s “Equipping the Saints” Vols. 1 and 2 and “Walking Together, Walking Apart” and all of the “In their own words” quotes in those excellent publications.  These were all sent to Rowan Williams, but obviously were either never read or have been “forgotten.”

[117] Posted by BettyLee Payne on 7-5-2008 at 11:03 PM · [top]

Still on Patrol website:
PARISHIONER: Do you believe the Bible is the inspired word of God?
SAULS: I believe the Bible is a book of poetry with a lot of history in it. I believe the Prayer Book has all that one needs for salvation
PARISHIONER: Do you believe there is a Satan?
SAULS: Not metaphorically speaking, no.
PARISHIONER: Do you believe in heaven and hell?
SAULS: I believe that an all-loving God would never send anyone to hell for eternity. I believe he works it out in the end for everyone.
Here is the link for this and more of on +Saul.
http://stillonpatrol.typepad.com/still_on_patrol/2008/03/is-stacy-sauls.html

[118] Posted by martin5 on 7-6-2008 at 01:20 AM · [top]

Jesus and Followers gay?  The world according to recent June bride and simple country bishop.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43618

[119] Posted by Enlightened on 7-6-2008 at 07:45 AM · [top]

St. Cuthbert’s in Oakland, CA:
Their Contemplative Mass:
Here we are trying to blend both the Christian and Buddhist Contemplative traditions. At our 8 a.m. Contemplative Mass, you can sit Zazen on the floor, on Zafus and Zabutons if you wish, or chairs. This service is half meditation and half Eucharist. No creed is said, nor is there a sermon. We do body work and stretching, we chant, we have 20 minutes of silent meditation, intercessions for others and ourselves, then Holy Communion, then more silence, a joint prayer and then we meet for coffee.

Communion:
Officially, you have to be baptized in order to receive Communion. It doesn’t have to be an Episcopal/Anglican baptism; any branch of the Christian Church will do, but we have been known to bend the rules according to each situation. Also, this applies to people of all ages – baptized babies can receive Holy Communion. After all, babies are not excluded from your dining room table at home – nor should they be excluded from the Supper of the Lord.
Here is the link:
http://www.stcuthbertsoakland.org/expect.html

[120] Posted by martin5 on 7-6-2008 at 12:48 PM · [top]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03252007/news/worldnews/eltons_bday_simply_divine_worldnews_elizabeth_wolff.htm

Elton John’s birthday bash at St. John the Divine.
The altar was clearded for the band.

[121] Posted by martin5 on 7-6-2008 at 03:25 PM · [top]

The death, birth and miracle narratives about Jesus of Nazareth are almost certainly confections that emerged from the collective imagination of late first-century C.E. communities of Jews and Gentiles, which had found common ground in a devotion to the ethical teachings of an itinerant street preacher from Galilee. It was apparently the radically countercultural nature of that teaching — as in “love your enemy” — that set Jesus apart from the countless other street preachers of the time, who may have been something like the first-century version of today’s pundits and talk-show hosts.

Harry Cook, rector of St. Andrew’s Episcopal Church in Clawson, Michigan.  He’s still a priest in good standing within TEO.

[122] Posted by Jeffersonian on 7-6-2008 at 05:13 PM · [top]

Bill+ provided this on “The Big Guy in the Sky” thread:
Marcus Borg is slippery like an eel.  He wants his readers to imagine that he believes in the uniqueness of Jesus in some authentically/historically Christian sense in his book *Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time.* But in his footnotes he clarifies his meaning.  In fact, the whole approach could be subtitled “How to Play Games with Words and Mislead the Ignorant Masses Who Don’t Bother to Read the Footnotes:”

p. 37 “The sketch affects how we see Jesus in another way as well.  Imaging Jesus as a particular instance of a type of religious personality known cross-culturally undermines a widespread Christian belief that Jesus is unique, which most commonly is linked to the notion that Christianity is exclusively true and that Jesus is ‘the only way.’[f.n. 42] The image I have sketched views Jesus differently:  rather than being the exclusive revelation of God, he is one of many mediators of the sacred.  Yet even as this view subtracts from the uniqueness of Jesus and the Christian tradition, it also in my judgment adds to the credibility of both.”

pp. 44-5 f.n. 42 “ To amplify slightly, I would agree that Jesus is unique in one sense of the word, and deny that he is unique in another.  In the sense that Jesus is not exactly like any other religious figure, he is unique (and so are the Buddha, Muhammad, Lao-tzu, and, for that matter, every person).  But in popular Christian usage, the ‘uniqueness’ of Jesus is most commonly tied to the notion that he is the uniquely and exclusively true revelation of God. It is this meaning of his uniqueness that I deny.”

p. 43 f.n. 29 “I agree with those who speak of each religious tradition as a ‘cultural-linguistic world’; see, for example, George Lindbeck, The Nature of Doctrine (Philadelphia:  Westminster, 1984).  Thus the religions of the world are clearly not all the same; they are as different as the cultures out of which they come.  Yet I remain convinced that the impetus for creating these cultural-linguistic worlds comes out of certain kinds of extraordinary experiences that are cross-cultural.”

p. 131 “The notion that God’s only son came to this planet to offer his life as a sacrifice for the sins of the world, and that God could not forgive us without that having happened, and that we are saved by believing this story, is simply incredible.  Taken metaphorically, this story can be very powerful.  But taken literally, it is a profound obstacle to accepting the Christian message.  To many people, it simple makes no sense, and I think we need to be straightforward about that.”

[123] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 7-6-2008 at 05:53 PM · [top]

From page 11 of the Styles section of the Sunday New York Times: “Dr. Aimee Der-Huey Shu, a daughter of Virginia and Frank Shu of Basking Ridge, N.J., was married there on Saturday evening to Dr. Tarek El-Sawy, the son of Selma and Tewfic El-Sawy of New York. The Rev. Winnie Varghese, the Episcopal chaplain at Columbia University, officiated at a nonreligious ceremony at the Basking Ridge Country Club. . . . “

      Nonreligious ceremony?!  Episcopal clergy make a solemn promise to conform to the worship of the Episcopal Church. I think that requires us to use an authorized rite for marriages.  Even the Order for Marriage (Prayer Book 1979 pages 435-436) requires vows that use the name of God.

[124] Posted by TomRightmyer on 7-6-2008 at 07:56 PM · [top]

Dear Paula,
I’m so sad with you. As we look for signs, reflect on 2Tim chapter 3 - sound familiar?

[125] Posted by el paso texan on 7-6-2008 at 09:57 PM · [top]

Can’t believe this isn’t in the thread already. Yes, there’s an Islamopalian priest. But there’s also a Mormopalian Bishop. +Irish, that is, who was baptized Mormon and never baptized Christian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolyn_Tanner_Irish

[126] Posted by Siangombe on 7-7-2008 at 05:47 AM · [top]

So many possibilities, so little time.  A few more entries come to mind this morning:

Church of the Redeemer Morristown:
http://www.redeemermorristown.org/

Everything below is copied verbatim from various pages on the church’s website. This is a parish in good standing in the Diocese of Newark and well-known to Episcopal leadership.

Vision Statement

The Church of the Redeemer is a Christian Liberation Community in the Episcopal tradition. We experience God, the sacred, the Spirit, primarily within those actions and events that liberate people from that which prevents them from reflecting their dignity and value as daughters and sons of God. Building on our valued Christian and Episcopal roots, this parish is actively creating a contemporary model of what it means to be a community of faith.

Redeemer is a “come as you are party” that takes the word “family” seriously. Our diversity is our wealth. Our questions and dreams, rather than our answers, unite us.

Everything we do through our worship, ministries, education programs, and business affairs is guided by this vision.

Specific Ways our Worship Reflects our Vision

  * The signboard in front of the church states the Redeemer vision: “We Are One Family.” A picture of this signboard is found on the home page of this website.
  * A large painted banner often hangs in front of the church, advertising: “It’s a Come as You Are Party.”
  * The Rainbow and Black Liberation flags are prominently displayed in the church.
  * A large picture of Martin Luther King, Jr. hangs on the back wall of the church.
  * Both the Episcopal Prayer Book and an Inclusive Language Eucharist are celebrated each Sunday.
  * All people, regardless of their tradition or age, are invited to receive Communion.
  * No formal church instruction is required to receive communion.
  * Grape juice is consecrated in consideration of those people who do not wish to receive wine.

# One of the three Sunday lessons is taken from either a secular source or from the sacred writings of a tradition other than Christianity.

# Collects in the inclusive language service are taken primarily from Janet Morley’s All Desires Known and often end with the wording “through Jesus, our Christ.”

# Rather than the Nicene Creed, the inclusive language service often includes a musical setting of the very first Christian creed, “Jesus is Lord,” as a meaningful way of expressing our belief.

# During the liturgical seasons when a confession is used, the priest first absolves the people and the people then absolve the priest.

# The celebrant always receives communion last to model servant leadership and to discount images of hierarchy.

# Female imagery and references to God are used in conjunction with male imagery and references.

# The United Church of Christ hymnal, The New Century Hymnal, which intentionally uses inclusive language, is the pew hymnal at Redeemer. Specially written inclusive language hymns are also used.

# Redeemer intentionally uses the traditional form of The Lord’s Prayer, but begins with the words, “Our Mother, our Father.” People often join hands during this prayer.

# Redeemer’s stated music policy requires inclusive language and images God in both male and female forms. At Redeemer, language is seen as a justice issue.

# Lay and ordained people from various religious traditions are invited to preach in the Redeemer pulpit. In addition, members of the parish, on a regular basis, tell stories which illustrate God’s liberation within their lives. They speak as women, African-Americans, people in recovery, Holocaust survivors, Gays and Lesbians, and people living with AIDS.

# Contemporary Maundy Thursday and Good Friday services have been created so as to honor the Christian tradition and at the same time speak to the issues confronting the modern world.

# A series of Liberation Holy Days are celebrated. These make clear that God’s work of liberation continues into the present time. Examples of these days are Martin Luther King, Jr. Sunday, Recovery Sunday, Holocaust Remembrance Sunday, Celebrating Women’s Journeys Sunday, Gay and Lesbian Liberation Sunday, Celebrating Men’s Journeys Sunday, and Blessing of the Animals Sunday.

[127] Posted by Karen B. on 7-7-2008 at 06:46 AM · [top]

Communion without Baptism: (CWOB)

This thread at T19 documents some of the instances and also gives results from a survey of TEC done by a task force in Northern California a few years ago:

http://www.kendallharmon.net/t19/index.php/t19/article/4150

Here is a summary of the prevalence of CWOB:

Summary of results:
—48 dioceses (47%) responded.
—24 (50%) reported that they have parishes in their dioceses who practice CWOB
—another 7 dioceses were considered to “probably allow CWOB,” bringing the total of “YES + Probable” responses 31 dioceses, or 65% (i.e. just about 2/3rds of all the dioceses which responded)

Even if the other 55 dioceses which did not respond did not allow CWOB (not likely!) that would mean a minimum of 23 - 30% of ECUSA dioceses allowed CWOB back in 2004 - 2005. If on the other hand the dioceses which responded are representative of ECUSA dioceses, than we can report that half to two-thirds of ECUSA dioceses allow CWOB.

Here is one particularly egregious example of a parish in Key Biscayne, FL which not only practices “Open” Communion (i.e. Communion without Baptism), but also “Open Baptism”!

http://web.archive.org/web/20040904140842/http://www.stchriskb.org/

  Open Communion
  Anyone who seeks to encounter Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist is welcome to receive Holy Communion here at St. Christopher’s. Everyone is welcome, without reservation.

  Open Baptism
  In keeping with the understanding that the Holy Spirit moves people in different ways and at varying speeds, St. Christopher’s by-the-Sea is one of several Episcopal churches in the Diocese of Southeast Florida that offers Baptism “with no strings attached.”

  Anyone who seeks to be baptized, or to have a child baptized, is welcome without regard to their church membership, their faith tradition, or other factors. Our parish baptized 22 new Christians during 2002, a new record and a strong response to our first year of “open baptism.”

  Individuals requesting baptism for themselves or a child will be given a brief instruction on the nature of the sacrament so that they understand what they are requesting. They are not required to join the church, though everyone is welcome. Further spiritual growth can be expected as the newly baptized continue their journey in the community of the church, said Father Sinisi.  No one who desires to become part of the Body of Christ will be turned away, whether or not they or their families are members of the church. [...]

  The practice of Open Baptism has been growing in the Episcopal Diocese of Southeast Florida recently with the encouragement of the Rt. Rev. Leopold Frade, bishop of the diocese. The mobility of the population, along with high rates of interdenominational marriage and other factors, have led to the presence of a large number of residents who are “unchurched.” These families may include unbaptized adults, or the adults may be uncertain of where they can go to baptize their children if they are not members of a particular church or denomination.

  Open baptism is offered to remove any barriers and uncertainties and welcome these individuals and families without “strings”.

Note: after complaints, this webpage was changed, but there was never any discipline.

One other very public “in your face” example of Communion Without Baptism—at Seabury Western Seminary commencement

http://www.livingchurch.org/news/news-updates/2007/07/23/welcome-at-the-table

Here is a direct quote from the seminary’s dean in responding to criticism of the practice:

Fr. Montgomery also objects to the non-canonical open invitation to communion printed in our service leaflet. As ordinary of the chapel, I have articulated this policy in full awareness that it does not comply with the canonical provision about communion and baptism. One reason seminary chapels are traditionally “ecclesiastical peculiars” is so that they will have the freedom to push the edges of liturgical practice in the direction of the church’s emerging theology. There is a serious theological argument abroad these days about the relationship of baptism and Eucharist. To characterize the open invitation as “liturgical universalism” misconstrues the state of the argument. Those of us who favor open communion do so knowing that the church has historically seen one sacrament as a precondition for the other. We simply question, in the present pastoral situation, the propriety of following that practice.

There are MANY more examples of support for and practice of Communion without Baptism at all levels within TEC (and failure to censure the practice at General Convention) on this TitusOneNine Thread.

http://www.kendallharmon.net/t19/index.php/t19/article/4134/#comments

[128] Posted by Karen B. on 7-7-2008 at 07:07 AM · [top]

And one more for this morning.  A denial of the Fall and original sin.  Very prevalent among many TEC leaders, but the best example that comes to mind is the “marriage liturgy” used by Susan Russell and her partner Louise at their “in your face” ceremony held publically at All Saints Pasadena in Feb 2006 (in gleeful violation of the Primates and the Windsor Report)

First here are links re: the “marriage”
http://inchatatime.blogspot.com/2006/02/live-from-wedding-central.html
http://titusonenine.classicalanglican.net/?p=11481

The liturgy is here:
http://titusonenine.classicalanglican.net/?p=11821
http://www.integrityusa.org/samesexblessings/Susan&Louise;.pdf

Here is the section I’m remembering:

God dwells in you.
And also with you.

Come to the table with thankful hearts.
We open our hearts to God and to one another.

Let us give thanks to the Lord our God.
It is right to give God thanks and praise.

Creative God, source of all life and ground of our being, you are the vibrant energy dancing at the center of the universe! Through us you move, and through us you are made known to the world. Co-creators with you, we are emboldened to move beyond ourselves, to find the courage to let go of old ways and welcome new life. And so, in concert with those of every generation who have been touched by your redeeming love, we lift our praise to you:

Holy, holy, holy Lord, God of power and might, heaven and earth are full of your glory. Hosanna in the highest. Blessed is the one who comes in the Name of the Lord. Hosanna in the highest.

From the beginning we did not trust you when you called us “good.” In our arrogance, we placed ourselves outside your garden of love. Separate from you, vulnerable and unprotected, we feared one another and our diversity. Afraid of being ourselves, we distrusted your Word of love and forgiveness. But you did not abandon us to isolation and despair.

You sent your servant Jesus, baptized him with your Spirit, and infused him with your love and confidence. Healing, teaching, and sharing table with all manner of individuals, Jesus proclaimed your love for all humanity and called us forth to be ourselves.

No sign of the fall or sin.  No need of redemption anywhere here.

[129] Posted by Karen B. on 7-7-2008 at 07:31 AM · [top]

The head of the Church of Ireland has said if homosexuality is proven to be biologically predetermined then his church would have to allow gay unions.

“If such comes to be shown, it will be necessary to acknowledge the full implications of that new aspect of the truth,” said Archbishop Alan Harper.

[130] Posted by Boring Bloke on 7-7-2008 at 09:37 AM · [top]

I suspect that the C of E’s debate on Women Bishops will be very fruitful.

This one is more a heresy against logic than just Christianity:

Father David Houlding speaks to his amendment. He wants the church to be ‘honest’ about where it is. ‘I recognise that the priestly ministry of women has brought a great blessing to our Church. I want to get off the battlefield and onto the mission field.’ He wants provision for conscience but also for ecumenical sake. ‘It is also for giving an equal and honoured place in the CofE for those who cannot in principle accept this development. It was AB Rowan himself who taught me some 10 yrs ago when a group of Catholics on both sides went to Walsingham. He taught me how it was possible to hold both views in tensions together. There wasn’t a right or wrong, both sides were right. It is a matter of Scripture and obedience.’

And here we have the usual misunderstanding of Justice and eisegenesis of Acts 10-15:

Bishop of Bath and Wells, Peter Price, said the issue was one of justice. ‘Theologyn and justice go together in the ecology of God. Saving justice is marked among other things by a passion for those who are excluded.’ Spoke about Peter in Acts being invited to eat unclean food. ‘What God has cleansed you must not call common,’ said a voice from the heavens in this episode that was a prelude to the mission to the gentiles. This was how to understand the development of tradition today. ‘God’s saving justice called Peter into a new place… Christian faith cannot gain from human bondage. It is in being fully human that we are made in God’s image… The first rule of the Gospel is that you do trust.’

Which reminds me, has anyone mentioned To set our hope on Christ yet? Surely there is enough heresy in there to keep us occupied for some time.

[131] Posted by Boring Bloke on 7-7-2008 at 09:59 AM · [top]

I’m back again.  Got a great link which is a similar “document the heresy thread” from T19.  Check it out.

http://www.kendallharmon.net/t19/index.php/t19/article/4286

It reminded me of a few things.  Has anyone mentioned Bp. Swing’s leadership of the United Religions Initiative yet?  (Sorry, I’ve skimmed all the comments above quickly, but I may I have missed something).

Here are some links:
http://www.uri.org/About_URI.html
http://titusonenine.classicalanglican.net/?p=2000
http://www.episcopalchurch.org/3577_48087_ENG_HTM.htm?menu=undefined
http://web.archive.org/web/20000122153954/http://www.episcopalian.org/CCLEC/leepenn-newage.htm

[132] Posted by Karen B. on 7-7-2008 at 10:30 AM · [top]

Karen:

Would you tell Kendall to quit putting “Read it all” for his links - I always want to put in the comments “No, No and you can MAKE Me read it all!”

smile

Eclipse

[133] Posted by Eclipse on 7-7-2008 at 10:49 AM · [top]

can’t - I also don’t do preview buttons apparently… LOL!

[134] Posted by Eclipse on 7-7-2008 at 10:50 AM · [top]

The T19 thread I just link also has a passing mention of the Via Media course to explain Episcopalianism to seekers.  (How quickly we forget!  I haven’t heard anyone mention that series in a few years it seems).

http://www.everyvoice.net/

Via Media has been adopted by many dioceses, and maybe even recommended at a national level, I’d have to spend more time searching than I have available right now.  But here are a few links I found quickly:

http://titusonenine.classicalanglican.net/?p=4613
 

– Via Media presents “open communion”–by which it means offering the body and blood of Christ to the non-baptized and to non-Christians–as normative, though it is far from a churchwide (or officially approved) practice.

– The Rev. Susan Russell of All Saints, Pasadena, says Anglicans are “not limited by the language of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit” when describing the Holy Trinity.

– The Rev. Winnie Varghese, chaplain at Columbia University, rejects the doctrine that Jesus died for sinful humanity, asserting instead that goodness and love incarnate is killed, and that Jesus came to us in vulnerability rather than power. “There is actually a danger and idolatry in making an idol of Jesus,” she says in response to whether Jesus is the only way to the Father, as the Gospel of John records him saying of himself. “Jesus never asks us to worship him. Among all the gospels that we have, that’s not one of the stories. Jesus asks us to follow.”

– In a discussion of sin, the Rt. Rev. Stephen Charleston of Episcopal Divinity School and other participants agree that it’s wrong to compile lists of rules (especially about sex). Nevertheless, Charleston gives his own list of corporate sins: policies that cause homelessness, economic oppression, environmental destruction. He identifies the church’s sins as “blindness, an inflated sense of privilege, prejudice, sexism, racism, and homophobia.”

Other links:
http://titusonenine.classicalanglican.net/?p=1727
http://titusonenine.classicalanglican.net/?p=1120

[135] Posted by Karen B. on 7-7-2008 at 10:52 AM · [top]

Diocese of Arkansas FAQ page with terribly inadequate theology of the incarnation & resurrection:

Who are Episcopalians?
Episcopalians are followers of Jesus Christ. We say that God was uniquely present in the life of Jesus of Nazareth. One word we use to describe this belief is that God was “incarnate” in Jesus, that is, God’s own self was present in Jesus’ very body. Following his death, his disciples found that Christ still lived in their midst. Thus, they found themselves connected to God as they discovered themselves to be part of Christ’s resurrected body. And that is still the case today. We Episcopalians say that we human beings are united to God through Christ.

http://arkansas.anglican.org/who/faq.html

NOTHING about Christ’s physical resurrection, and the discussion of the incarnation way downplays if not denies any belief that Christ is/was actually God Himself (as opposed to “God being uniquely present” in Christ).

That reminds me of the TEC website “seekers” page, let me see what I can find there.  Stay tuned.

[136] Posted by Karen B. on 7-7-2008 at 11:01 AM · [top]

In the wake of the Ann Holmes Redding (Muslim Episcopal Priest) scandal, Greg G. wrote an excellent entry here at SF:  “Under the Radar and Over the Cliff” which has a number of key links to past examples of false teaching and doctrine and very troubling events, sermons, etc.  Go here:
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/3831/

It is MUST re-reading for us all, not only or even primarily for the events it documents, but it’s reminder of what we should DO whenever we come across such documentation.

[137] Posted by Karen B. on 7-7-2008 at 11:39 AM · [top]

Chunks of Forward Day by Day:

“Many prefer the path of conforming their lives to the Christ of faith and to the catholic doctrine and practices of the church. Some choose other ways, their spiritual journey marked by a different perspective, some even pushing the edges of accepted faith and practice. The church needs both witnesses—needs all—the staunch defenders and the prophetic voices that may, at times, make us uncomfortable.

The church faces heartache and schism only when sides emerge, when people refuse to respect and honor those with a differing understanding of the truth of the Gospel.”

Jan. 25, 2006

Some of the J2A materials are pretty rank, as well.

[138] Posted by tired on 7-7-2008 at 11:47 AM · [top]

Back in 1996, a group called AWAKE produced a long catalog of concerns about the state of the Episcopal Church under Presiding Bishop Browning.

You can read the whole thing at the archive of the CCLEC website here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000608095521/http://www.episcopalian.org/CCLEC/catalog-concerns.htm

Here’s how the letter begins:

January 1996

Dear Members of the Episcopal Church,

“A Catalog of Concerns: The Episcopal Church in the U. S. under Edmond Lee Browning” has been compiled to provide you, as Episcopalians, with a single document containing information and statements about what is taking place in our Church today and what has been occurring in our beloved Church for the past ten years since Bishop Browning was installed as Presiding Bishop. This compilation - assembled with input from laity, priests, and bishops around the country - is certainly not a complete recitation of all of these events. However, it is believed to be a fair representation of the types of issues which we must face and discuss as a whole Church.

Take some time to read it all and click through the links.  TEC’s slide into heresy has been a long and well-documented process.  Sadly, some combination of spiritual blindness and/or apathy has kept so many (including many of us here for many years) from seeing, understanding or believing these well-documented facts for so long.

[139] Posted by Karen B. on 7-7-2008 at 12:03 PM · [top]

Ok, how about some of those church newsletter columns from TitusOneNine threads a few years ago.  A bit of digging pulled up a few gems:

Understanding my problem starts with understanding my theology. I am a devotee of Jesus of Nazareth. The spirit driven Jew being uncovered by the scripture scholars as they remove layer after layer of words falsely attributed to him. I am not a devotee of the later generations of Christian mythologizing about him. This does not mean that I challenge or debunk their thinking. I find it irrelevant.

I am not interested in the Divinity of Christ. I don’t think Jesus thought
he was divine in the sense meant by the Nicene Creed, but I am unwilling to argue about it certainly not with you in this congregation to whom it is important. I would not disturb you but for me a much more critical issue is: am I aware of the divinity that I am? Or instead do I identify myself as the person others say I am?

I am not interested in the Resurrection of Jesus or even of me. I think the Hellenistic Jews who spread Christianity are responsible for that idea and it would not have occured to Jesus. But again, I am unwilling to argue about it and have no need to disturb you who feel otherwise.

from here:
http://titusonenine.classicalanglican.net/?p=224
–The Rev. John Cowan is interim rector of Saint Anne’s, Sunfish Lake, Minnesota

(all of his priesting info is here:
http://titusonenine.classicalanglican.net/?p=224#comment-1226
proving this was not some kind of spoof or satire)

[140] Posted by Karen B. on 7-7-2008 at 12:26 PM · [top]

Clergy Associate at All Saints Pasadena Anne Peterson on why she denies being a Christian in public:

Anne Peterson is Senior Associate for Leadership, Incorporation, and Communications at All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena, California. In a recent parish newsletter column she wrote this:

If one of your resolutions for 2004 is to exercise more, consider wrestling with The Big Questions of life and meaning. Not long ago, on a flight from the East Coast, I was working on a Sunday morning presentation at All Saints. The woman in the seat next to me leaned over and asked, “Are you a Christian?” “No,” I said, “I’m just doing some research.” Because the religious right has so co-opted the term Christian, I am reluctant to identify myself to a total stranger as being “a Christian.” I would have to answer, “Yes, I am a Christian, but it’s not what you think.” I would have to explain that Christianity is inclusive, not exclusive, that the Bible needs interpretation, not literal acceptance, and that the Christian story is not the only story of faith, although it is the story which inspires, challenges, and transforms me.

from here:
http://titusonenine.classicalanglican.net/?p=236
http://www.allsaints-pas.org/saintsalive/aSA040125a.pdf

[141] Posted by Karen B. on 7-7-2008 at 12:48 PM · [top]

A sermon on the Prodigal son by John Rettger, honorary canon of St. Mark’s Cathedral in Minneaoplis.

http://titusonenine.classicalanglican.net/index.php?p=732
http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~lcrew/dojustice/j180.html

21-March-2004

A total reinterpretation of the parable. It’s GOOD to be the prodigal.  No repentance is needed:

But Jesus was always calling people away from home. Maybe he thought that their discipleship would be more intentional if they left town. Maybe he recognized that journey was so important in the story of faith: Abraham, Joseph, and Moses come to mind. But there is more to journey. It is really about discovering who you are. The prodigal daughter who leaves home is the adventurer, the discoverer, the learner. She recognizes that there is much that she does not know, and she is not satisfied to remain in the world that she knows. The prodigal is the pioneer who left the old country to homestead the prairie in the last century, or the scientist who explored microorganisms that had never been named, or Jeannette Piccard who rode a balloon to the edge of the atmosphere. He is the entrepreneur who saw the niche and filled it, the Georgia O¹Keefe who saw flowers and painted them bigger than anyone could imagine, or the Beethoven who shocked the critics with dissonance and an interrupted theme in the 3rd symphony. The prodigal is anyone who leaves home to set up an alternate universe, challenging the conventional scheme.  [...] The so-called prodigal son is you and me, insofar as we think for ourselves and plan for a future that is different from the present. It takes boldness and creativity and courage to be a prodigal son or daughter on a journey. And right now in our church, we have embarked on a journey - working for justice for all our members including sexual minorities - that is risky, and in the news every day, and threatens to split our church.

[142] Posted by Karen B. on 7-7-2008 at 12:53 PM · [top]

Re [105] and [106]:

How about this from Church of England Bishop Stephen Lowe:

Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation for me”, he said, “but I don’t want to impose that on other people

I applaud this thread for documenting the problems we are facing, but I think, especially in our very charged setting, we should be careful with the term “heretic”. Language is a beautiful gift but can be horribly imprecise.

More fundamentally, the exclusivist/inclusivist discussion I’ve seen in the blogs has been not-too-nuanced.  How do we deal with the possibility (or lack thereof) for salvation for those of other faiths without giving over to relativism/postmodernism?

In CS Lewis’ The Last Battle, the whole book is spent belittling false religion and the notion that Aslan and Tash are two equivalent ways of experiencing the divine.  However, in the end, one of the Calormene boys is saved by Aslan despite his formally being on the other side.

That’s just a kid’s book smile, so what about Dominus Iesus?  As far as my layman’s perusal discerns, it tells me that
1.) If any saving gets done, Jesus does it—Christianity is objectively the real thing.  (There are some particularities claims about the RCC being the fullest way of relating to Jesus, but these are somewhat less relevant to the discussion).
2.) In some mysterious way, it is possible for people outside of Christianity to be saved by Jesus’ work.
(aside) 3.) It irks me that I have to go to Rome to get clear doctrinal statements on this stuff… (end aside)

So, when someone says, “Christians aren’t going to be the only people in Heaven,” they could really mean something like this, or they could mean something more.  I believe charity would have us to differentiate between a poorly worded statement and a Bishop denying that Jesus is Really Real.

[143] Posted by Via Mead (Rob Kirby) on 7-7-2008 at 10:35 PM · [top]

Helpful comment, Rob. IOW, belief in #1 and 2 (and yes, 3!) does not imply either heresy or even universalism, but a reasonable way of looking at God doing God’s business—and us getting out of the way. Mystery and grace.

[144] Posted by PadreWayne on 7-7-2008 at 10:38 PM · [top]

Rob, since we are temporally bound, and cannot know the exact way in which God choses to deal with those of other faiths - one assumes that a final effort, perhaps beyond the Styx and thus beyond our ken is offered. However, we can err mortally when we try to assume that <we> must address this in any way other than what we have been given Scripturally - that is bearing witness to the salvation made possible through Jesus Christ. C.S. Lewis also addresses this problem in the Chronicles of Narnia -elsewhere and in his other writings. Worse you seem to make the same error that characters in the book make - that somehow Tash and Aslan are divinely equivalent. Which obviously is not the case. No I do not think that nuance is lacking - clarity perhaps, yes.

[145] Posted by masternav on 7-7-2008 at 10:47 PM · [top]

- that is bearing witness to the salvation made possible through Jesus Christ. C.S. Lewis also addresses this problem in the Chronicles of Narnia -elsewhere and in his other writings. Worse you seem to make the same error that characters in the book make - that somehow Tash and Aslan are divinely equivalent.

masternav, I was trying very hard to reject that error.  Lewis spends much of the book mocking the idea of “Tashlan”, and relativism more generally is taken to task in the Abolition of Man (among other places).  I FULLY reject any equivalence between Tash and Aslan!
My point is that there is orthodox ground short of the narrowest possible reading of John 14:6 (one follower of Tash are mercifully saved by Aslan even though Tash is bad), and there is a VAST difference between such a view and the pluralism ravaging TEC.

The word “clarity” instead of “nuance” could be an improvement to my post.  At any rate, whatever mysterious working of God happens outside of the church in no way negates her job of calling the nations to faith in Jesus.

[146] Posted by Via Mead (Rob Kirby) on 7-7-2008 at 11:44 PM · [top]

Rob - my apologies for misreading your intent!

[147] Posted by masternav on 7-7-2008 at 11:49 PM · [top]

Rob - my apologies for misreading your intent!

No problem. 
On a “get the heretics” thread, it is important to get the “heretics”!  I am trying to point out an example of how the same statement (“Christians aren’t the only people in Heaven”) could be made with orthodox sentiment or otherwise, so as to
ask people to use the term “heretic” carefully.  Listen to what folks mean before labeling them.  Even with a little charity, I fear there will still be plenty to of links to post on this thread.

[148] Posted by Via Mead (Rob Kirby) on 7-7-2008 at 11:59 PM · [top]

<a >Jesus just didn’t get it,</a> but an assertive in-your-face woman sets him straight—the standard feminist interpretation of the story of Jesus and the Syrophoenician woman:

“Let’s not be too quick to let Jesus off the hook. After all, the Syrophoenician woman meets Jesus in the context of a society that subordinated women to the point of classifying them as property to be owned by men. . . .  As a girl, I couldn’t help but be aware of the patriarchal bias of the Bible, but I never paid much heed to the devaluation of women recorded there as holy writ. I didn’t buy it, and the Syrophoenician woman is one very important reason why. Some of you may be thinking, ‘Go figure!’ Here we see Jesus at his most bigoted. Sure, he talks to this woman, but he spurns her request, and he calls her and her daughter dogs. How empowering is that? . . . Maybe our Good Guy is speaking tongue in cheek to see how this supplicant will respond. But maybe, just maybe, the Syrophoenician woman confronts Jesus with his own cultural blinders that have no place in the Kingdom of God that he proclaims.”

[149] Posted by William Witt on 7-8-2008 at 06:48 AM · [top]

William Witt, that is the voice of a bitter angry woman.  But the pride or blindness of lifting oneself above the Lord Jesus Christ is mind-blowing.  Perhaps they have placed Jesus below themselves to use for their own purposes and service.  Gene Robinson sees Jesus Christ and all Biblical relationships through the homosex lense.

[150] Posted by Theodora on 7-8-2008 at 07:01 AM · [top]

I. The Person of Christ

“Our understanding as Christians is that Jesus is our salvation, that he died for the whole world. That said, we don’t necessarily know the mechanisms by which God saves the whole world. ... My understanding of idolatry includes the assumption that I can know and comprehend the way in which God saves people who are not overtly Christian. … I am unwilling to do more than speculate about how God saves those who don’t profess to be Christians.”
- Katharine Jefferts Schori, Presiding Bishop (at a May 25, 2007 meeting with the clergy of the Diocese of Virginia) 

The death, birth and miracle narratives about Jesus of Nazareth are almost certainly confections that emerged from the collective imagination of late first-century C.E. communities of Jews and Gentiles, which had found common ground in a devotion to the ethical teachings of an itinerant street preacher from Galilee. It was apparently the radically counterculture nature of that teaching – as in “love your enemy” – that set Jesus apart from the countless other street preachers of the time, who may have been something like the first-century version of today’s pundits and talk-show hosts.
-The Rev. Harry T. Cook, Rector
St. Andrew’s Episcopal Church, Clawson, Michigan
Detroit News, February 21, 2004

I am the way, and the truth and the life. No one comes to God except through me.” The first thing I want you to explore with me is this: I simply refuse to hold the doctrine that there is no access to God except through Jesus. I personally reject the claim that Christianity has the truth and all other religions are in error. . . . I think it is a mistaken view to say Christianity is superior to Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, and Judaism and that Christ is the only way to God and salvation.
-The Rev. Dr. George F. Regas, Rector Emeritus
All Saints Episcopal Church, Pasadena, California
April 24, 2005, Guest Sermon at Washington National Cathedral

II. The Authority of the Bible

“But there is a tradition in the church in the United States of a kind of pluralism. There has never been one interpretation of Scripture. …And while I think we would all say as our ordination liturgy has us say – those of us who are ordained – that we believe that the Old and New Testament contain all things necessary to salvation, there is a broad interpretation of what precisely that means in actual terms as one looks at various issues and concerns in the life of the Church. … So when we think about church, I think many of us think first of all about that sacramental experience rather than the Book as the absolute determinant of our ecclesial life …”
— Frank Griswold, Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church USA

Are (Protestant teenagers) more likely to be in teen Bible study groups? Well, you are if you’re a Southern Baptist. You’re probably not if you’re an Episcopalian. The Bible is very much present in our tradition, but its not the only thing we look to as authoritative. And that’s what distinguishes us from many Protestant traditions where the Bible is paramount in ethics, in everything, really.
-The Rev. Mary June Nestler, Dean
Episcopal Theology School, Claremont, California
August 2004

III. Pluralism/Goals of TEC
On April 16, 2005, at Grace Episcopal Church in Syracuse, NY, the Rev. James Knowles, dipped an eagle feather into cedar ashes and brushed the smoke towards worshippers who had gathered to honor a Native American saint, Oakerhater. Oakerhater had been baptized at Grace Church after converting to Christianity in 1878. Knowles asked the crowd to face the four different directions as he read a prayer praising the sun, the moon, the alligator and the turtle.

“The Presiding Bishop wants the Communion to understand the peculiar genius of the Episcopal Church.  If others understood ECUSA they would see us as holy….The New Hampshire consecration was not sprung on the Communion – it seems people haven’t been paying attention to what’s been coming for 30 years and that’s naïve.”
-David Booth Beers,
Chancellor for ECUSA
MEETING OF EPISCOPAL CHANCELLORS

[151] Posted by RLundy on 7-8-2008 at 01:01 PM · [top]

Poor Oakerhater. His conversion to Christ was commemorated with pagan rites in his own church. That is depressing.

[152] Posted by oscewicee on 7-8-2008 at 01:13 PM · [top]

commenter Dan Crawford on the smudger thread:

Smudging was used during the opening “Service of Reconciliation” at the October 2001 Wyoming Diocesan Convention in Dubois. The smudger walked through the convention room with the pot of burning buffalo and sweet grasses and sage; while smoke billowed from the pot, the smudger called on the four winds, and the sun and the moon, to “purify” the “sins” (described as “rigid thinking”, “judgementalism”, “intolerance” and the various “-phobias”) of the participants.

[154] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 7-8-2008 at 09:05 PM · [top]

[155] Posted by Nikolaus on 7-9-2008 at 08:45 AM · [top]

A blog entry at Still on Patrol today reminded me of this “gem” from +Desmond Tutu in the foreword to Gene Robinson’s book. 

For me, the question of human sexuality is really a matter of justice; of course I would be willing to show that my beliefs are not inconsistent with how we have come to understand the scriptures. It is not enough to say the “Bible says ….. “, for the Bible says many things that I find totally unacceptable and indeed abhorrent.

from here:
http://www.canterburypress.co.uk/bookdetails.asp?ID=4708&ISBN=9781853119026

The problem with heresy is not just limited to TEC & Canada.

[156] Posted by Karen B. on 7-9-2008 at 10:20 AM · [top]

A CoE woman priest totally denies the resurrection, and a CoE bishop contacted about her remarks doesn’t really care:
(hattip the Ugley Vicar)
http://ugleyvicar.blogspot.com/2008/07/reasons-to-be-cheerful-maybe.html

Take this interview on Radio 4’s Sunday programme, with Rosemary Lain-Priestly:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/realmedia/sunday/s20080316z.ram

Roger Bolton: [...] Do you believe it doesn’t matter whether [the resurrection] was about a body or not, or do you believe it definitely wasn’t?

Rosemary Lain-Priestly: The Scriptures tell us that the tomb was empty and it may well have been. Who am I to limit what God might choose to do? But my faith in the resurrection doesn’t stand or fall on whether there were human remains in Christ’s tomb. [...] So perhaps it doesn’t matter whether or not Jesus took his [physical body] with him.

RB: [...] Would it matter to you, would it shake your faith if a tomb was opened up and the bones in it were confirmed as those of Jesus? Your answer to that is it wouldn’t matter at all ...?

R L-P: I don’t think it would matter because the resurrection that I believe in, I think has continuity with what we experience in this life but in some very profound sense is about transformation, it’s about something other than what we have already experienced.

Is this anywhere close to what the Apostles preached or what the Creeds declare? Yet Rosemary Lain-Priestly is a Dean of Women’s Ministry. I therefore wrote to a relevant bishop and queried how this was possible. His reply was brief, “She’s a quite articulate and intelligent liberal. But she doesn’t speak for anyone apart from herself.”

[157] Posted by Karen B. on 7-9-2008 at 10:26 AM · [top]

Talking of Desmond Tutu, what he did for S.Africa, was amazing but his theology leaves a lot to be desired,

I give great thanks to God that he has created a Dalai Lama. Do you really think, as some have argued, that God will be saying: “You know, that guy, the Dalai Lama, is not bad. What a pity he’s not a Christian”? I don’t think that is the case — because, you see, God is not a Christian.

and who could forget this emission:

If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn’t worship that God.

Hope it doesn’t seem like i got carried away there, but wikiquote is a wonderful tool.

[158] Posted by PaulStead on 7-9-2008 at 01:46 PM · [top]

This is an “anti-heretical post.”  Stephen Sackur, once again, proves how irritating he can be.  However, Abp Venables parries every lunge and delivers his riposte with authority.  Touché , Greg++ !  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/hardtalk/7499395.stm

[159] Posted by Kale on 7-10-2008 at 05:27 PM · [top]

#159, yes, ++Venerables does a remarkable job.  It is a shame that such honesty and clarity has not been forthcoming from the ABC.  The interview does a remarkable job of demonstrating the divide of thought ... rancorous attack (Sackur) versus adult Christian (Venerables).  As far as I’m concerned, at this time, it is ++Venerables that speaks for the Anglican Communion.  The insistance that the Anglican Communion requires the ABC rather begs the question.  What we see today, if there is an Anglican Communion to speak of, is that Communion without an ABC that speaks for it ... so functionally if it exists at all, it exists without the ABC as anything more than a local bishop.FWIW, while I don’t know if I personally would remarry even in case of death of spouse, I agree with Venerables on his treatment of divorce.  Unfortunately, to avoid abuse of that generous second chance, we require people of good will and bishops who will say “no” when a second marriage is inappropriate or untimely ... and consequences such as maybe five years of time away from the sacraments if people choose to marry outside the obedience of the Church.  The priest and bishop have a responsibility to guard their sheep from participating without discerning the body lest the participation be made into a violation of that sacred sharing.  What hope is there for us when Eucharist is a stumbling block?  There is always hope but it is incumbent upon the Church to discern such things lest the people eat and drink condemnation upon their heads.  I don’t mean to make it sound magical ... but it is real as any promise, any covenanting of souls.  To eat and drink unworthily is akin to adultery.  The Church qua Church cannot invite people into adultery any more than God blesses sin.

[160] Posted by monologistos on 7-11-2008 at 08:43 AM · [top]

In this week’s bulletin announcements of St. Philip’s in the Hills, Tucson, AZ, there are two announcements of the Tacheria School (page 3).  The biographies of the board of directors include Eastern mysticism, Zen shiatsu, Reiki, Jungian depth psychology, and Zen Buddhism.

[161] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 7-12-2008 at 10:01 AM · [top]

I see the link for the newspaper article of the party for Elton John link was posted…I’d like to reiterate that it was a blasphemous act to use a Cathedral that was consecrated for worship of God and to allow a man to mock and use the name of the Apostle, St. John the Divine, in a clever play on words to allude that he possesses divinity. 

The article stated that Elton John had already renounced Christianity only four months earlier and is not a Christian. 

Well, duh, a Christian would not think of using a Cathedral to give himself a party, nor would a true Christian clergyman rent out a Cathedral under his charge for a party. 

What does that say about those in charge of the Cathedral of St. John the Divine?

Obviously, they do not revere/fear God and should have been removed from their office.
 
Perhaps they really worship Elton John and his idols: money, success, fame, power, parties, music, sexual and sensual gratifications, feelings, illusions, pretensions, fantasies, contrived and induced highs…themselves. 

Here’s the link to article again:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/03252007/news/worldnews/eltons_bday_simply_divine_worldnews_elizabeth_wolff.htm

[162] Posted by Theodora on 7-26-2008 at 06:16 AM · [top]

Dr Schori at the <A >Lambeth press conference</A> explaining that she is a pantheist:

KJS: I am the Presiding Bishop in the US, Taiwan, Micronesia, some south American dioceses (I missed her reference) Puerto Rico, Haiti, the Virgin Islands, and some churches in Europe. I say that for no other reason than to point out that we are all interconnected. My context reminds me of that daily. We spoke in our bible study this morning of Creation as the body of God. Creation reflects God and the tradition has a mixed history of affirming that understanding.

If we do not pay attention to the health of creation the other issues that beset the Communion will be of no importance.

Jesus walked the earth. He fed the hungry, healed the sick and announced good news to the poorest among us. Climate change effects all of this issues. It is the poorest who suffer most from climate changes. I can tell you stories of native Americans in Alaska who are losing their homes. I can tell you about the South Pacific where people are being moved because their homes are falling into the sea. We have heard stories of bishops from Sudan who experience desertification because of changes in rainfall patterns. Every part of this communion can tell you a story about this looming disaster that has already begun effects the poorest among us.

Salvation is about healing and wholeness and holiness, these words share a common root. If we do not pay attention to the reflections of the incarnation around us we have not engaged in our Christian duty and I am not just talking about human beings but the creation itself.

[163] Posted by Boring Bloke on 7-26-2008 at 07:38 PM · [top]

Get Religion has a post about various pastors in the Detroit area talking about how to mobilize prayer for the city’s problems.  They quote a TEC rector, Harry T. Cook of St. Andrews Episcopal, Clawson, MI who says this:

In Clawson, the Rev. Harry T. Cook, rector at St. Andrews Episcopal Church, a self-described agnostic, dismisses the idea of a group prayer day, saying “these are man-made problems that require man-made solutions.” The rector suggests politics: voting, mobilizing, taking action.

That’s all that’s quoted and Tmatt tries to give the TEC rector the benefit of the doubt… but the commenters dig up more proof that indeed calling this TEC Rector an agnostic is perhaps on the generous side.

In particular, the description of his confirmation classes has got to be read to be believed:
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/19438.htm

Preferring to have my church be known as a laboratory rather than a stamping plant, I have resisted such a process. I have wanted to expose the youths in my so-called confirmation classes to the kind of approach to things religious, which one hopes they experience in their study of history, literature and science.

Thus do I begin, proceed, and end with questions. I am engaging the current crop of 14-year-olds in a seminar called “Look B4U Leap,” which was designed to invite them into considering for themselves whether or not they wish to have anything to do with 1) organized religion, 2) Christianity and 3) the particular brand of Christianity in which their births or parents’ preference have landed them.

My readers will not be surprised to know that this method is not universally popular. It has been suggested to me that I ought to be in the business of convincing kids that our way is the right way, rather than essentially giving them permission to choose otherwise. My favorite response to that objection is to say, tongue slightly in cheek, that I want them to grow up to be heretics just like me - the word heretic, of course, meaning “one who chooses for himself or herself what to believe.”

What I’m really trying to do is raise a crop of agnostics. That term is likewise in need of definition. “Oh, so you’re trying to make atheists out of our kids,” went one j’accuse. Well, yes in a way. “Atheists,” I say, “are non-theists. That is, they don’t necessarily buy into the conventional belief in an objectified deity who (or which) is open to human communication through the medium known as prayer and who (or which) can and can be persuaded to intervene in natural processes to effect change.”

A bit of Googling reveals that Harry Cook has been the topic of the Anglican blogosphere before, particularly something he wrote for the Detroit Free Press back in 2004 when the Passion of the Christ was released.  The original link is dead, but Chris Johnson has the quote:

The death, birth and miracle narratives about Jesus of Nazareth are almost certainly confections that emerged from the collective imagination of late first-century C.E. communities of Jews and Gentiles, which had found common ground in a devotion to the ethical teachings of an itinerant street preacher from Galilee. It was apparently the radically countercultural nature of that teaching — as in “love your enemy” — that set Jesus apart from the countless other street preachers of the time, who may have been something like the first-century version of today’s pundits and talk-show hosts.

The resultant retreat of Judaism into the synagogue movement — and thus into eclipse — might well have been the fate of nascent Christianity had it not been for someone (or ones) who sat down sometime shortly after 70 C.E. to give the new movement a story of its own to go with the collection of Jesus sayings that until then had evidently sustained those communities.

What that person or persons produced is known as The Gospel according to Mark, which was the first thing of its kind to include a death or crucifixion narrative. The writers of Matthew and Luke would build on Mark by adding birth narratives and greatly expanding the death story by appending resurrection stories. St. Paul’s earlier assertion that Jesus’ death was part of a divine plan to atone for the sins of the world would help fix Jesus’ crucifixion (the Roman method of capital punishment in vogue at the time) as a central theme in the overall story.

[164] Posted by Karen B. on 7-26-2008 at 07:40 PM · [top]

Oops, correction to my comment above.  Harry T. Cook’s columns appear in the Detroit News, not the Detroit Free Press.

[165] Posted by Karen B. on 7-26-2008 at 07:41 PM · [top]

This Hook fellow should get a job with Screwtape.  In seeming he already does…

[166] Posted by monologistos on 7-26-2008 at 09:51 PM · [top]

SICK SICK SICK -
Episcopal Priestess: Abortion is a Sacrament
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Blog/Default.aspx?id=195054

[167] Posted by Theodora on 7-28-2008 at 10:59 AM · [top]

11/13/2008 Episcopal Divinity School (EDS) holds the Joanna Dewey Lecture in Feminist Biblical Studies “Baking Cakes to the Queen of Heaven: God, Goddesses, and Growing Up Black and Female in America.”  following this the Carter Heyward Lecture has Marvin Ellison, the William S. Bass professor of Christian Ethics at Bangor Theological Seminary in Maine, delivering his lecture titled “Is Marriage a ‘Must’ or a ‘Bust’?  Enlarging the Justice Agenda.”

[168] Posted by Undergroundpewster on 7-31-2008 at 07:52 AM · [top]

Bishop of Arizona’s sermon
As members of a body which was founded by Jesus to be radically inclusive. It is essential that we be a place which is totally welcoming and affirming to all sorts and conditions of people, especially those who have been historically excluded from society and the life of the church, women, gay and lesbian folk, children, and those marginalized because of race or class. I am very proud of what the American Episcopal Church has done to include all people. To me, our prayerfully early inclusion of women as priests and bishops, our outspoken involvement in the fight against AIDs/HIV, and our ordination of monogamous gay lesbian people as priests and bishop. All of this is mandated by our baptismal vows. To put it bluntly, if we disqualify certain groups of people from ordination, then why baptize them?

Our problem is not purity of doctrine but lack of Christian charity.
And now in the latest development, a group of very conservative Anglicans meeting in Jerusalem last week has defacto declared itself to be a church within a church. They have separated themselves, in spite of the rhetoric to the contrary, not because of theology, but because in their eyes certain of God’s children can never be loveable to God, even though one member of the conference claimed, “just because we think gay people should be in jail doesn’t mean we are homophobic.” So what we have left this summer is the Anglican Communion, meeting in Canterbury, and the Anti-gay-lican Communion meeting in Jerusalem.
It seems downright demonic to me that while Africa implodes in starvation, epidemic, corruption and genocide, so many of its bishops felt that the best use of their time and money was to travel to Jerusalem to help a small group of a handful of fat cat white churches in suburban Virginia separate from the American Church. The result of the preoccupation with doctrinal purity has resulted first of all in neglect of the desperate physical and needs of the rest of the world.

There is hope. I’ve seen that new spirit at work.

There is more but here is the link.
http://lambethdaily.blogspot.com/2008/07/preaching-at-cathedral.html

[169] Posted by martin5 on 8-1-2008 at 05:54 PM · [top]

John Beverley Butcher encourages dropping the creeds from our services and expanding the Bible to whatever. He is a UU-TEC Bi-ecclesial.

http://www.uucpa.org/sermons_07/sermon070114.html

http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/15472/#267527

http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/13106/

[170] Posted by Dr. N. on 8-16-2008 at 09:12 AM · [top]

http://www.episcopalchurch.org/documents/ToSetOurHope_eng.pdf
ECUSA’s presentation to Anglican Consultative Council meeting in Nottingham, England in June 2005.

[172] Posted by martin5 on 8-25-2008 at 10:28 PM · [top]

I think that this deserves a mention ...

Bishop Of Washington (Chane) Sues To Stop Sharing Of Gospel

Stand firm article

Link to legal file

Baby Blue report

[173] Posted by Boring Bloke on 9-22-2008 at 03:38 AM · [top]

More buddhapalians:

Tibetan monks scheduled to return to city 

ASHTABULA — The Tibetan monks of the Gaden Shartse Monastery in India will be returning to Ashtabula.

The Wellness & Total Learning Center invites the public to meet the monks and learn of their practices and experiences at 2 p.m. Sunday, Oct. 5, at St. Peter’s Episcopal Church, 4901 Main Ave.

They visited Ashtabula on two previous occasions and were found to be delightful, highly educated men. These monks delight in sharing their practices and paths to inner peace and compassion with all people.

This year they will sing, chant and explain the “Highest Concentrations of Bliss.” They will welcome your questions and happily will answer them.

The focal point of the academic program at Shartse is in-depth education in all aspects of Buddhist philosophy and practice. The duration of the monastic program is 24 years. The students interact with their teachers daily. Accommodations, food and instruction are all free and are provided by the monastic administration…

[174] Posted by robroy on 9-24-2008 at 09:28 PM · [top]

http://www.episcopalchurch.org/79901_101197_ENG_HTM.htm
full text: http://www.episcopalchurch.org/documents/Hobart_lecture_2008.pdf

+Schori tending to her flock

All I can say is “BAAAAAAAA not buying it”.

[175] Posted by martin5 on 10-1-2008 at 09:08 AM · [top]

From the book Wisdom’s Feast:

“A fifth liturgy, “A Wisdom Eucharist,” 162 to 168, places Sophia clearly in a formal eucharistic setting.  This eucharist, written by an episcopal priest, can be used in regular worship services as well as special women’s gatherings.”

[176] Posted by tired on 10-3-2008 at 04:53 PM · [top]

In the Winter 2000 issue of the Newsletter of Shalem, we find the following article by Tilden Edwards, an Episcopal Priest and the Director of Shalem:

“... As some have suggested, perhaps we should no longer speak of interfaith relations but of intra-faith relations as we come to realize that we share the same mysterious divine ground with different, evolving experiences of it.

“Contemplative traditions can be particularly helpful in showing us the inclusive ground that is deeper than words, structures and categories; a holy ground that is finally trustworthy, liberating, and pervaded by a mysterious love even drawing us.

“Jesus Christ has his own unique way of showing us that great, underlying, loving light.  Gautama Buddha illuminates some of its facets through his own profound experience.  Today, I think many of us are called to see them as special friends.  The world will be richer for it.”

Also available here, or Upanishad.

[177] Posted by tired on 10-3-2008 at 05:05 PM · [top]

“special friends”???? tired, the work is never done, is it?

[178] Posted by oscewicee on 10-3-2008 at 05:16 PM · [top]

[178] It is quite sobering. 

I am amazed at how such poor witness may easily be found using google and quoted phrases, such as “episcopal priest” and gaia.

rolleyes

[179] Posted by tired on 10-4-2008 at 10:01 AM · [top]

Here is another one for Mr. Naughton’s very own Bp Chane, who said the following in making his 2002 Easter sermon as bishop-elect:

“And yet, the Easter story of the resurrection, which defines the core of our Christian theology, is, at best, conjectural…. the concept of Jesus’ physical, bodily resurrection, was not even part of the early Christian experience…. At their very best, the stories of the resurrection of Jesus as contained in the Gospels and Acts of the Apostles are contradictory and confusing.”

“Easter Beginnings and Endings,” March 31, 2002 cited in 240 <u>Never Silent</u>, T. Barnum, 2008. Also available here.

[180] Posted by tired on 10-4-2008 at 10:02 AM · [top]

tired, I wondered how you were turning them up so quickly. It’s dispiriting.

[181] Posted by oscewicee on 10-4-2008 at 10:15 AM · [top]

Kendall has posted something today that deserves adding to this thread:
http://www.episcopalchurch.org/81840_101278_ENG_HTM.htm
http://www.episcopalchurch.org/81840_101300_ENG_HTM.htm
http://www.kendallharmon.net/t19/index.php/t19/article/16744/

John Butcher, a priest in California has now TWICE opined (in June08 and Aug08, published in Episcopal Life) that the Creeds should be trashed.  (See SF thread here for background, and also Creedal Christian’s two posts, here and here.)

Here are key quotes from Butcher’s letters:

CREEDS ARE LACKING
Perhaps you have noticed that the creeds speak of the birth of Jesus and then of his death. There is no mention of the life of Jesus, no mention of the teachings of Jesus, no mention of the healing power of Jesus.

The heart of the gospel is missing. The creeds are defective and need to be taken out of service. Instead, let us proclaim clearly the gospel of the Resurrected Jesus, “The seed of true humanity is within you. Follow it!” Gospel of Mary (Magdalene) 4:5.

The Rev. John Beverley Butcher
Pescadero, California

and (as posted at Creedal Christian):

In the June 2008 issue of Episcopal Life, we find ... a letter written by the Rev. John Beverley Butcher of Pescadero, CA, priests across our Church are encouraged to let go of the Nicene Creed in the Sunday Eucharistic liturgy. Fr. Butcher calls the Creed “a speed bump” that impedes the “natural flow from the ministry of the word into prayer.” And he notes (citing Marion Hatchett’s excellent Commentary on the American Prayer Book) that the Nicene Creed did not become a regular part of Eucharistic liturgy until the 11th Century. He concludes that the Creed “is not an essential part of the shape of the liturgy.” And he goes on to say:

Since 1979, I have quietly resumed the natural flow of worship by omitting the creed; none of the members of my congregations have missed it. I would encourage others to let go of the creed and feel the freedom.


However, as the latest letters to Episcopal Life (October08) reveal, Butcher is not alone in his opinions:

A ROMAN REMNANT
The Rev. John Beverley Butcher (“Creeds are lacking”) is not alone in sensing the creed’s complete exclusion of Jesus’ life and ministry, mentioning only his birth and death and nothing in between. In the flow of the liturgy, Scripture, passing the peace, prayers of the people, the sermon and the Eucharist, Jesus Christ’s ministry and gospel are present. The creed, instituted by Roman decree more than three centuries after the Resurrection, leaves out both entirely. The Council of Nicea’s purpose was to institutionalize Roman power and authority.

We are Episcopalians and have been open to the Holy Spirit to help us in the evolution of our worship from the beginning. In the Nag Hammadi discoveries, we are now fortunate to have the gospels of Thomas, Philip and Mary Magdalene to read. None of the four original Gospels nor these new findings contain the creed.

Women also have sensed the irony of referring to the Holy Spirit as “he” when it is a feminine word in both Hebrew and Greek and would best be translated as “she.” Patriarchal language is problematic in a church with a woman presiding bishop.

Judy Massey
Sedona, Arizona


PROPOSING A CREEDAL OPTION
Grateful thanks to the Rev. John B. Butcher’s (“Creeds Are Lacking” comments. The creeds are metaphysical abstract statements, probably relevant in the fourth century to philosophical arguing, but not understandable for Christian living or to anything Jesus lived and taught. What really does any of that speculative conjecture loved by theologians mean to the average person, those to whom Jesus ministered then and now?

If the creeds are sacrosanct and cannot be replaced, could an alternative be given as an option? Jesus’ summary of the law to love God and love your neighbor is mentioned several times in Scripture, the Old and New Testaments. Why isn’t that our creed, easily understood and a guide for living? It also seems to me to be truly the Great Commission from Jesus, not Matthew 28:19, which is mentioned only once and never was called the great commission by Jesus; that probably was the label put on by some Bible scholar when the Bible was able to be printed.

As a life-long Episcopalian, I am heartened by the Rev. Butcher’s letters the past two issues and appreciate his bravery in speaking out.

Isabel Ross Ogden
Santa Fe, New Mexico

So +Rowan, you still want to proclaim that there is not a widespread problem with doctrinal heterodoxy in TEC?

[182] Posted by Karen B. on 10-6-2008 at 06:32 AM · [top]

In case the link expires ... +Schori interview

Episcopal bishop assess church’s rift
She also predicted that openly gay bishops will be elected in the future, despite an agreement among bishops not to consent to such elections for the time being.

Jefferts Schori, the spiritual leader of the Episcopal Church, was in Columbus today to preach at Trinity Episcopal Church Downtown, where she was elected bishop in 2006.

She spoke to The Dispatch after receiving an honorary doctorate in divinity from Bexley Hall Seminary, which shares a campus with Trinity Lutheran Seminary.

Jefferts Schori spoke of her grief about the Pittsburgh Diocese’s decision to leave because of disagreements with the church over biblical teachings about homosexuality and salvation.

“That’s just profoundly sad,” she said. “Arguing about fine details of theology isn’t the main reason for our existence.” The focus instead should be on service and evangelism, she said.

The 2.2 million-member Episcopal Church is the U.S. branch of the worldwide Anglican Communion. The relationship between the two has been threatened since 2003, when an openly gay bishop, V. Gene Robinson, was elected in New Hampshire.

The Pittsburgh Diocese was the second in the United States to leave the church, after the Diocese of San Joaquin in Fresno, Calif. Next month, dioceses in Fort Worth, Texas, and Quincy, Ill., are to vote on leaving the Episcopal Church. Individual churches, including several in Ohio, have also decided to break from the denomination.

No other dioceses have expressed a desire to leave, Jefferts Schori said. “I think we’re well past the worst of the crisis,” she said.

The reorganization of the Pittsburgh Diocese has begun, led by diocesan officials who chose to remain with the Episcopal Church, Jefferts Schori said. The breakaway congregations still occupy church property, and the denomination will reclaim it through the courts if necessary.

“Our job isn’t to be vindictive about their departure but to say, ‘We bless your journey, we wish you all the best. And if you want to come back, the door’s open and we’ll keep the porch light on.’ “

As presiding bishop, her task is to refocus Episcopalians on the mission of the church, she said.

Part of that mission is to fight oppression in all its forms, starting with racism. On Saturday in Philadelphia, Jefferts Schori apologized for the Episcopal Church’s role in perpetuating and profiting from slavery.

There is a parallel between the historic oppression of black people and the challenges that gays and lesbians face, she said.

“It’s an age-old human struggle over who’s an accepted member of the community,” she said.

http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/08/bishop.html?sid=101

[183] Posted by martin5 on 10-10-2008 at 06:26 PM · [top]

“no other dioceses have expressed a desire to leave…....” YET!  Wait a while, Kate, and you’ll see!

[184] Posted by Cennydd on 10-10-2008 at 06:41 PM · [top]

Lest we forget,
[url=“http://arc.episcopalchurch.org/ens/GC2000-082.html”]Bishops call for inclusive Boy Scout leadership
(ENS July 16, 2000)[/url]

“Bishops concurred with the House of Deputies on the morning of July 14, their last legislative day, in a resolution (C031) that encourages the Boy Scouts of America to allow adult leaders to serve regardless of their sexual orientation.”

[185] Posted by Undergroundpewster on 10-11-2008 at 10:54 AM · [top]

There is that “regardless of sexual orientation” again.  When will they learn own dangerous such all encompasing terms are? 

Life will be very interesting 20-40 years from now when other groups learn to take advantage of laws and rules against discrimination based on sexual orientation.

[186] Posted by AndrewA on 10-11-2008 at 11:00 AM · [top]

Kendall has posted a sermon from the Cathedral in San Diego which is full of heterodoxy.  It promotes same-sex marriage as respecting the orthodox definition of marriage.

But what is most striking is the following.  It explains exactly how many progressives claim to “believe” the creeds—while at the same time radically reinterpreting them to mean whatever they want them to mean.  Note that it was a seminary professor who suggested to this priest that he do this!

So hold that story and come with me to General Seminary, New York City; 1988: I’m a Middler, a second year student, and I’ve grown tired of the creeds – Apostles and Nicene. I’ve had it; worshipping several times a day will do that to you. I complain to my Systematic Theology professor: Why do we have to endlessly repeat faith statements from the third and fourth centuries that answer questions few have asked since then? Why don’t we write our own creed? Why don’t we struggle together to define the core content of faith today?

Dr. Carpenter, a liberal thinker, stands aghast. My plan, he advises, will throw the church back into a period of theological chaos, an era not unlike those decades just prior to the formulation of the creeds in question. People died as a result of those debates. (That wouldn’t happen today – we’re more tolerant, more humane, and, frankly, we don’t care as much – but it’s still dicey.) Instead, he continued, let’s receive our theological inheritance with gratitude and allow ourselves to be radical in our interpretation of it.

Receive our inheritance with gratitude and be radical in our interpretation of it. That suggestion sorted me out in regard to the creeds and I’ve since found it to be helpful in a variety of arenas. This weekend we’ve been applying it to the topic of gay marriage.

From here:
http://walkingwithintegrity.blogspot.com/2008/10/rigid-conservative-and-wild-radicals.html
Sermon preached at St. Paul’s Cathedral, San Diego
RIGID CONSERVATIVE AND WILD RADICALS
October 12, 2008
Scott Richardson +

[187] Posted by Karen B. on 10-13-2008 at 04:31 AM · [top]

From an October 15, 2008 article in the San Francisco Chronicle which examines the differing views of conservative Christians vs. liberals on the issue of same-sex marriage—a doozy of a quote by +Marc Andrus, bishop of the Diocese of California:

Catholics, Mormons and evangelicals have been contributing millions of dollars and flying into the state from around the nation to lead rallies and services that preach support for the measure. [Proposition 8 which would define marriage as between a man and woman only]

There’s a reason for the intensity.

“As California goes, so goes the nation,” said Sarmiento, the Orlando preacher, encouraging worshipers to attend a rally referred to as TheCall California in San Diego on Nov. 1 that is expected to draw 100,000.

Liberal groups representing Christians, Jews and others are trying to defeat the measure. But their efforts have been far more modest, even though priests and rabbis in the Bay Area have played a pivotal role in creating and cultivating a theology that includes lesbians and gays as equals to heterosexuals. 

Conservatives and liberals generally use dramatically different lenses to interpret the Bible. Christian conservatives tend to emphasize an interpretation of the Bible that doesn’t change with the times. They say the Bible describes marriage as only between a man and a woman.

“You’ve got the California Supreme Court rewriting sacred heritage,” said Steve Madsen, pastor of Cornerstone Fellowship, an evangelical megachurch in Livermore.

Liberal Christians tend to emphasize that divine revelation can come from many places, even outside the church. For example, many denominations don’t allow same-sex marriages, while California law does.

“Culture is going to manifest Christ in a way that summons the church to new realities,” said Episcopal Bishop Marc Andrus.

Article link is here:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/14/MNNC13ELMC.DTL

The culture manifests Christ to the Church?!?!  Wow.  +Andrus admits that he wants the culture to lead the church, not vice versa.  So much for being light & salt, I guess?!  Scary.

[188] Posted by Karen B. on 10-20-2008 at 05:01 AM · [top]

I’m sorry if I seem over-eager to keep this thread alive, but it proves such a handy “one stop shopping” site for documentation of the huge problems in TEC.  From an article today (Oct. 20, 2008) in the Boston Globe.

A Diocese of Massachusetts survey reveals that THREE-QUARTERS of parishes in the diocese practice Communion without Baptism.  And this is acknowledged by the diocese as a fully valid “local option” despite the fact that it is a clear canonical violation.
———
from here:

A quiet revolution is taking place at the altars of many churches - in the form of bread and wine.

Communion, the central ritual of most Christian worship services and long a members-only sacrament, is increasingly being opened to any willing participant, including the nonbaptized, the nonbeliever, and the non-Christian.

The change is most dramatic in the Episcopal Church, particularly in liberal dioceses like Massachusetts. The denomination’s rules are clear: “No unbaptized person shall be eligible to receive Holy Communion in this Church.” Yet, a recent survey by the Episcopal Diocese of Massachusetts found that nearly three-quarters of local parishes are practicing “open Communion,” inviting anyone to partake.

“Who am I to say who should be at God’s table?” said the Rev. Gale Davis Morris, rector of the Episcopal Church of the Good Shepherd in Acton. “Most of Scripture is pretty clear about who the ultimate judge is, and it’s not anybody that’s human. And I would much rather err on the side of inclusion than exclusion.”

Supporters of open Communion argue that Jesus would not have turned anyone away; defenders of closed Communion say that’s a misreading of biblical history and that Communion is meant to be a sign not only of one’s faith but of one’s membership in the church. The debate is taking place as the number of Americans who describe themselves as religiously unaffiliated is growing, and church leaders are attempting to lure them in.

“Both sides will appeal to Scripture - those for open Communion will appeal to Jesus’ practice of having meals with tax collectors and sinners, while those who want to maintain the traditional practice appeal to the Last Supper, where Jesus was eating with his disciples,” said the Rev. Matthew Stewart, priest in charge at the Episcopal Church of the Holy Spirit in Fall River. Stewart led a study of Communion practices in the Diocese of Massachusetts.

Strikingly, the transformation is taking place with little public controversy, as parish by parish, Episcopal priests are making their own decisions about whom to invite to the Communion rail. The Episcopal Diocese of Massachusetts has taken a hands-off approach.

“Episcopal Church leadership recognizes that Episcopalians have varied interpretations from Scripture and early Church practices,” said the diocesan spokeswoman, Maria Plati. “At this time the decision to invite unbaptized persons to Communion is understood and accepted as a local option.”

[189] Posted by Karen B. on 10-20-2008 at 08:33 AM · [top]

Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori announced the appointment of the Rt. Rev. Herbert A. Donovan, Jr. as Deputy to the Presiding Bishop for Anglican Communion Relations. 

His voting recorded would make the LGTB crowd proud, but will probaby do more damage to the already frail Anglican Communion Relations.

[190] Posted by martin5 on 10-20-2008 at 06:33 PM · [top]

How sad. It is literally possible to discover a heresy a day when reading Episcopal / Anglican blogs.  Here is my entry for today.  It’s a doozy.

TEC retired priest George Clifford opines on the problem of Theodicy (the problem of suffering) and apparent “unanswered prayer” in a blog entry today at Episcopal Cafe.

His answer, one he says is embraced by MANY contemporary Anglican theologians is to deny the omnipotence of God.  But, he denies MUCH more than that.  Here are the key excerpts: (emphasis is mine)

From here

Unanswered prayers
By George Clifford

[...]
During further studies, I discovered an alternative explanation of continued suffering in the face of persistent, collective, godly prayer. Some contemporary Christian theologians, disproportionately Anglican, propose that traditional ideas about God’s omnipotence are incorrect. Perhaps in creating the cosmos, God lost (or never had) the power to do anything at any time. God must therefore rely upon human cooperation to accomplish God’s purposes on earth. God abhors evil and suffering, but both persist, even after we persevere in collective prayer, because you and I fail to act as God’s hands, feet, and voice.

Attracted to this new understanding of God, I did some research. Only two Bible verses explicitly speak of God’s omnipotence denoting a God for whom nothing was impossible. In Luke 1:37, Mary responds to the angel’s annunciation of her imminent pregnancy by saying, “For nothing will be impossible with God.” And Matthew’s gospel reports Jesus saying, “All things are possible with God” (19:26). Like most Christians, I am very skeptical of placing too much emphasis on just a couple of Bible verses. Perhaps both passages reflect a first century cultural and scientific worldview rather than timeless theological insight. I also found that the widespread practice of addressing God as the Almighty might not be a theological statement. Biblical scholars have concluded that ancient Israelites appropriated the term God Almighty, or in Hebrew El Shaddai, from their Mesopotamian neighbors. The Hebrews seem to have used the term to emphasize their monotheism rather than God’s omnipotence. [...]

In this post-Christian era, the Church must bravely and honestly admit points at which traditional conceptions of its faith no longer make sense. We do exactly what the Bible seems to tell us to do. We pray. We pray with one another. We pray according to the mind of Christ. Yet God does not always grant our requests. Not squarely acknowledging these difficulties leads us down the path of Benny Hinn, not of Christ Jesus. Too often, I have heard well-meaning but ignorant Christians tell those who grieve that God did not or will not heal a loved one because God respects human freedom. These words hurt rather than comfort. Dishonest or disingenuous answers to faith’s difficulties only push true seekers further from God.

A power exists that changes lives, a power that turns bread and wine into an encounter with absolute love incarnated in human community, a power that transforms despair into hope, defeat into victory, weakness into strength. When our puny human minds believe that we have successfully packaged that power into a well-conceptualized God, such as the omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent God of Christian orthodoxy, we invariably even if unintentionally imagine an idol. The controversy currently convulsing the Anglican Communion is the living God shattering one such idol as God’s people discover that God does not respect gender orientation any more than God respects race, nationality, or gender.

The Rev. George Clifford, a retired priest in the Diocese of North Carolina, served as a Navy chaplain for twenty-four years. He blogs at Ethical Musings.

Ok, to sum up:
1) God is not omnipotent.
2) Nor is He omniscient or omnipresent.  To say He is either is to make Him an idol.
3) Suffering is OUR fault.  We are to be God to the world, it is up to us to solve the world’s problem and defeat injustice, etc.
4) Note the incredibly weak / mushy theology of the Eucharist and the Incarnation.  God is a “power” incarnate in the absolute love found in human community. It is the absolute love of human community we experience in the Eucharist.

Blech Blech Blech!
Ok, I admit Theodicy is just about the toughest theological question out there.  Suffering DOES cause us to question both God’s goodness and God’s power.  But the answers this priest provides are far worse than the “simplistic” answers he seems to mock. He derides “certainty,” and yet he seems to be very certain as to what bits of our faith were “made up” / “context bound,” and he doesn’t hesitate to declare God’s mind on various topics, notably:
“God does not respect gender orientation”

He puts himself in God’s place.  Not only is it up to us to act as God to redeem and transform the world, we know what is an “idol” and what is truth.  Incredible.

[191] Posted by Karen B. on 10-22-2008 at 07:55 AM · [top]

The picture says it all.

[192] Posted by Undergroundpewster on 10-22-2008 at 08:04 AM · [top]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08308/924886-52.stm
During her sermon and in a later time for questions, Bishop Jefferts Schori addressed the divisive issue of whether Jesus is the only way to God.

She said she believes Jesus “is the vehicle of salvation for all those living and dead and those to come after us.”

But the Bible also recorded promises to Jews and others, she said.

“Those promises were not broken by Jesus’ life, death and resurrection,” she said. “Therefore, Jews have access to salvation without consciously saying ‘Jesus is my Lord and savior.’ I didn’t do that; God did it. I also see that God made promises to Hagar and Ishmael, who Muslims claim as their ancestor. I don’t think God broke those promises when Jesus came among us.”

She sees evidence of holiness in people of other traditions.

“I have to assume that in some way God is present and at work in those people who may not ... know Jesus. It’s really God’s problem to figure out how to deal with that,” she said, to applause.

[193] Posted by martin5 on 11-3-2008 at 11:47 AM · [top]

<a href=“http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/20611/”>Northern Michigan elects Buddhist Bishop<a>.

[194] Posted by Undergroundpewster on 2-23-2009 at 10:51 AM · [top]

Ernest W. Cockrell+ from El Camino Real claims

“Jesus was not God”

[195] Posted by Undergroundpewster on 2-23-2009 at 03:29 PM · [top]

Amazing! Three for this thread in one day, a hat trick! Thanks Pageantmaster.

A Weekend of the “Feminine Divine” at National Cathedral

[196] Posted by Undergroundpewster on 2-23-2009 at 07:42 PM · [top]

If this isn’t heresy, it’s travesty:

A new Episcopal ‘ministry’ in Wichita, Kansas for post-aborted babies:
http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=10026

[197] Posted by Theodora on 3-2-2009 at 09:24 PM · [top]

Priest calls social activism duty to our goddess:
The Rev. Luis Barrios arrested for trespassing on Military property during a protest:


In an open letter to supporters after his conviction, Fr. Barrios said that the ultimate goal of his social activism is “being able to organize the religiosity of the people, so they can reach their liberation.” He said it is his “duty to our Goddess to build a better world.”


“Though I may disagree with elements of your actions, I consider those actions to be a living out of your vows as a priest rather than a violation of them,” Bishop Sisk said.

[198] Posted by Boring Bloke on 3-4-2009 at 09:01 AM · [top]

Some examples taken from a later post:

“When the Laotians first came to St. Philip’s in 1980 we placed a statue of the reclining Buddha on the Asian altar. Saturday by Saturday the directress of the Altar Guild, at that time, would hide the Buddha because she felt it was too sensual and inappropriate for the church. Sunday morning I would have to go find the Buddha. It was only after Bishop Mallory preached a whole sermon on Buddhism and the gifts that he saw the Laotians bringing to St. Philip’s that she finally got the message. His concluding statement was, “The day the statue of the Buddha moves to the high altar will be the day we will know that the gifts Buddhism has to offer will have been truly integrated into this parish.””

http://www.stphilips.org/documents/04-09-12.landandpeople.htm
St. Philip’s San Jose - along with a recent photo:
http://www.stphilips.org/50th/photos/DSCF1961.JPG

“What’s a Contemplative Mass?
Here we are trying to blend both the Christian and Buddhist Contemplative traditions. At our 8 a.m. Contemplative Mass, you can sit Zazen on the floor, on Zafus and Zabutons if you wish, or chairs. This service is half meditation and half Eucharist. No creed is said, nor is there a sermon. We do body work and stretching, we chant, we have 20 minutes of silent meditation, intercessions for others and ourselves, then Holy Communion, then more silence, a joint prayer and then we meet for coffee.”

http://www.stcuthbertsoakland.org/expect.html
St. Cuthbert’s Oakland

“Parish Life and Outreach Pillars

5. BUDDHIST MEDITATION

In Lent Monday nights, 7:30 to 9:00 pm in the nave. There are significant similarities between the lives of the Buddha and Jesus Christ, particularly in their wilderness retreats. These similarities will be highlighted through meditation and discussion during the Lenten season. Accordingly, Monday night meditation will add a quiet perspective on understanding the meaning of Lent. For information, call Nnnnnn Nnnn: NNN.NNN.NNNN.”

(From the same source)

“Open Communion is our invitation to everyone to gather around the altar for spiritual and communal nourishment. We believe this meal is a manifestation of God’s love for each of us, regardless of our religion, beliefs, or doubts.”

http://www.stmarks.net/worship/weekly.pdf
St. Mark’s Capital Hill (pdf)

[199] Posted by tired on 3-9-2009 at 01:34 PM · [top]

That Open Communion is a call to Death.
Flee, high thee away!

[200] Posted by Bo on 3-9-2009 at 02:26 PM · [top]

This was advertised in the Los Angeles Diocese’s e-mail on March 13th.
http://www.transformingtheology.org/

[201] Posted by martin5 on 3-12-2009 at 09:18 AM · [top]

Re. #33

I have read a lot of Therese of Lisieux. I have never seen any reference to a “highest power”. That sounds like something from a 12 step program.

Therese of Lisieux was an Orthodox nun of the RCC of deep faith in the power of Jesus Christ, not one’s own personal higher power.

[202] Posted by FenelonSpoke on 3-12-2009 at 10:07 AM · [top]

Re #89 I agree with the poster Mousestalker? Spong is welcome to believe whatever he wants, but it’s hypoctrical for him to remain a Bishop in the Episcopal church when he’s really a Unitarian.

[203] Posted by FenelonSpoke on 3-12-2009 at 10:13 AM · [top]

It might be more encouraging to the body of Christian believers on this forum if we posted about books or devotional practices that have increased our love for the Lord Jesus Christ. I woulld start a new thread but I don’t know how to do that; I’m new here.

[204] Posted by FenelonSpoke on 3-12-2009 at 10:19 AM · [top]

Hi FenelonSpoke - Only the blog owners can start new threads here, and this particular thread happens to be a very important one for Episcopalians who wish to know - and be able to document - what the church has come to. We all need sustenance, too, of course, but there is a very good reason for this thread to be here.

[205] Posted by oscewicee on 3-12-2009 at 10:26 AM · [top]

Thanks, Oscewicee-

That answers my question. :^) Only blog owners can start new threads. I wasn’t disputing that this heresy thread as its stands is important to Episcoplians. Not was I suggesting it shouldn’t be here.  I just have the same lament that I have with lots of other religious sites. The negativity is not balanced by the positive. I would love to hear about books people read (in addition to Bible) or other resources people use that increase their faith and trust in God. I have found with over 7 years of being on religious sites that most people don’t want to share that info.
I guess I’ll continue to hang around here, but look for that elsewhere-if it even exists on the internet.

Peace be with you in the Lord Jesus Christ

[206] Posted by FenelonSpoke on 3-12-2009 at 10:36 AM · [top]

I just have the same lament that I have with lots of other religious sites. The negativity is not balanced by the positive. I would love to hear about books people read (in addition to Bible) or other resources people use that increase their faith and trust in God.

I share your feeling on this - I think for our souls’ sakes we need to have that sharing, too. Are you familiar with Lent & Beyond? There are some wonderful resources there:

http://anglicanprayer.wordpress.com/

[207] Posted by oscewicee on 3-12-2009 at 10:42 AM · [top]

Thanks; I appreciate that I will take a look at that.

[208] Posted by FenelonSpoke on 3-12-2009 at 10:52 AM · [top]

It’s tempting not to bother to keep adding to this thread, but I know it’s helpful for many of our leaders to have evidence of false teaching easily at hand.  So, here’s a new example.

The Rev. Dr. Anne Bowers is a chaplain at the National Cathedral in Washington.  She wrote the following for the “On Faith” website run by the Washington Post & Newsweek.  She blatantly dismisses as primitive the belief in Jesus as the only Savior of the world. She clearly believes that all religions are equal and that there are many gods.

Most Christian institutions cling to the dogma and doctrine established in 325 A.D. by a religious minority. They are not incorporating all the new facts that we have found in recent archeological digs or in recently discovered writings from the periods written about in the Bible. For instance, The Gospel of Thomas, written at the same time as the Gospel of John, yet excluded from the Bible since Thomas did not include the Passion of Jesus Christ, gives us a different insight into salvation.

  Fundamentalism in Christianity, or belief in the literal translation [sic] of the Bible (or belief in Jesus Christ as the only way to salvation), while providing a safe haven for many, EXCLUDES the majority of spiritual people. Progressive believers by living a metaphorical translation [sic] of the Bible are INCLUSIVE. They acknowledge the legitimacy of all religions.

  The United States is part of the whole world, economically, politically, socially and environmentally. It must be. Why should we isolate ourselves religiously? We need to be inclusive of all religions. According to Houston Smith, author of “The World Religions,” they all lead to the same end.

  The late, great theologian Paul Tillich suggested that we get rid of the word “God”, since that word begins to define the unknowable. God is unknowable. God is a mystery, not one to be solved, but one to be lived into. How I perceive God is different from how another perceives God.

  To paraphrase Bill Moyers, in every community there are thousands of Gods, because of our differences in perceptions. Until religious institutions understand this and change to become inclusive of these thousands of God, they will continue to die.

March 18, 2009

here’s the link:
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/faithandhealing/2009/03/losing_faith_in_institutional_religion.html

hattip to Reformed Pastor:
http://reformedpastor.wordpress.com/2009/03/18/a-reason-to-sleep-late/

[209] Posted by Karen B. on 3-19-2009 at 07:01 AM · [top]

Inclusive of the thousands of goys Does that mean everytime I pray I need to pray to Freya and Freda and Thor and Kali, and and and….. as well as Jesus. Suppose I find some of the other theologies objectionable? I am a Christian; I am unapologetically a Christian, not a UU. That doesn’t mean that I can’t appreciate learning about other faiths, (I have been involved in interfaith dialogues)and even think that they have a measure of light in them. I don’t even know what is meant by other faiths being “legitimate”. I also find it personally disatasteful to browbeat people over the head with comments like “Accept Jesus as Lord or you’ll be damned to eternal hellfire”. I find a more winsome approach to Christianity more appealing. I also believe that it is possible that Jesus as Lord will save people who don’t know Him. I also think being inclusive does not mean saying “All faiths are equally valid”. I will respectfully listen to people of other faiths and find areas of commonality. I will through the grace of God offer fruit of the Spirit to them and we can work together is areas of helping the poor and hungry, etc. But this sort of approach that Rev. Anne Bowers suggests does not resonate with me. Everytime someone says “All religions are about the same thing, aren’t they?” I say “No.” My assumption is that being the National Cathedral they pride themselves on being a house of prayer for all people. At least that is what the Cathedral Church of St. John the Divine” in NYC which is affiliated with the Episcopal Church calls itself.

[210] Posted by FenelonSpoke on 3-19-2009 at 08:26 AM · [top]

Whoops; Meant Thousands of “gods”.

[211] Posted by FenelonSpoke on 3-19-2009 at 08:37 AM · [top]

http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=10164
‘Married’ gay man is ordained in the Diocese of San Diego.

[212] Posted by martin5 on 3-27-2009 at 08:49 AM · [top]

[213] Posted by Theodora on 4-29-2009 at 03:51 PM · [top]

This from the Los Angeles Diocese 2009:

St. Luke’s to host LGBT pride forums beginning May 24
St. Luke’s Church, Long Beach, will host a series of gay-lesbian-bisexual-transgender (LGBT) pride forums this spring. Dates and topics are:

Sunday, May 24:  Becoming an LGBT Parent (11:30 am - 12:30 pm) A panel discussion led by those who have gone through the adoption process (private, public, and out of country), as well as those who have experience with artificial insemination, surrogacy, and in-vitro fertilization. A family potluck will follow.
Sunday, May 31:  Breaking Free From Spiritual Abuse (11:30 am - 12:30 pm) Many LGBT people have come from spiritual backgrounds where they were deeply wounded by the messages of their faith communities. Spiritual abuse occurs when LGBT people are taught that God does not love and accept them as they are. Examine the ways that spiritual abuse is perpetrated and how to learn the truth of how God welcomes and affirms who GBT people are. Spanish translation will be available.
Sunday, June 7: Coming Out to God (11:30 am - 12:30 pm) Reconciling spirituality and sexuality can be a difficult journey. Panelists from diverse faith backgrounds share stories of their journey from fear and ridicule to acceptance of God’s powerful and inclusive love for all people, regardless of sexual orientation. *Spanish translation will be available.
Sunday, June 14 - The Bible Revealed: God’s Love For the LGBT Community(11:30 am - 12:30 pm).  Reading the Bible with “new eyes” and “new understanding” can be difficult in a world in which a literalist view of the Bible has caused so much hatred towards the LGBT community. This forum will focus on how the Bible reveals God’s inclusive love, promotes spiritual healing for those who have been “Bible bashed,” and provides people with a way to address the passages typically used to alienate LGBT people from God. *Spanish translation will be available.

I am not sure how heretical it is, as it is misleading.

[214] Posted by martin5 on 5-7-2009 at 09:33 PM · [top]

Here is the link for more information on T.I.D.E.:
http://stlukeslgbtandallies.ning.com/

[215] Posted by martin5 on 5-7-2009 at 09:38 PM · [top]

subscribe

[216] Posted by TLDillon on 5-7-2009 at 09:39 PM · [top]

From +Schori - this really makes me want to rant,

Q: Oregon seems far removed from the big Episcopal controversy over gay ordinations—

A: That’s a good thing. The controversy isn’t that big; it’s just noisy in some places.

http://www.oregonlive.com/living/index.ssf/2009/06/top_episcopalian_returns_to_or.html

[217] Posted by martin5 on 6-9-2009 at 11:05 AM · [top]

http://www.standfirminfaith.com/?/sf/page/23871
Schori at it again. I guess now I am a heretic according to her.

[218] Posted by martin5 on 7-7-2009 at 11:55 PM · [top]

Bishop Dan Edwards of Nevada, August 2009, writing to his diocese following General Convention, affirms that doctrine is optional in TEC.  One can believe whatever one wants.  I’m ok, you’re ok.

But none of this, or the many other important and constructive things we did at Convention, will capture the headlines. The journalists are exclusively interested in our actions dealing with the inclusion of partnered gay and lesbian couples in the life of the Church. We passed two such resolutions. I voted for both of them. Some of you may think we went too far. Others may think we did not go far enough. That is perfectly ok. As Episcopalians, we are free to hold different beliefs about issues of doctrine.

(emphasis mine)

From here: http://bishopdansblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/pastoral-letter-to-nevada-episcopalians.html

[219] Posted by Karen B. on 8-4-2009 at 10:40 AM · [top]

This citation needs more data (speaker, date…), but today at T19, Kendall has an article by Al Zadig in which he recounts something preached at the Diocese of Washington diocesan convention:

I will never forget the moment I knew The ... Virus had hit the National Episcopal Church. It came as I sat in attendance at the convention of the Diocese of Washington in the National Cathedral. The convention preacher stood up and said these words:

  “We live in a pluralistic world. A world of peoples with many belief systems and values. Our Christian, especially evangelical mission no longer can be as simple – as if it ever was – as telling people about Jesus, so that thy may be as we are and believe as we do. Perhaps our mission, by necessity, must continue to focus on more common human, not especially Christian concerns – alleviating poverty, civil rights, the ill, economic exploitation, environmental devastation…”

As I sat in stunned silence, I was shocked to see the preacher receive a standing ovation!

From here: http://www.kendallharmon.net/t19/index.php/t19/article/24748/

[220] Posted by Karen B. on 8-11-2009 at 01:31 PM · [top]

Concerns such as those listed are important. However, if churches are not going to be foundationally about preaching the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and his Lordship as well the presence of the Holy Spirit at work in the world, and the practice of being transformed into the image of Christ, they shouldn’t call themselves a church; They are a social service agency, not a church. Social service agencies perform good works but they don’t declare Jesus as Lord. Can we find common ground with people of other traditions in working towards helping people yes the question is “Are we calling people to be deeply devoted disciples of Jesus Christ the Lord or are we not?”

I would have been stunned too, Karen.

[221] Posted by FenelonSpoke on 8-11-2009 at 01:44 PM · [top]

“A highlight for me was being asked to perform a ‘traditional Wiccan foundation blessing’ in the closing ceremony…. I specifically invoked Hekate and Hermes by name, and [Episcopal] Bishop Swing was right there raising his arms in invocation with the rest of the Circle! We have, indeed, come a long way.”
http://www.cog.org/interfaith/cogdf00.html

[222] Posted by Festivus on 8-11-2009 at 02:02 PM · [top]

“...and [Episcopal] Bishop Swing was right there raising his arms in invocation with the rest of the Circle! We have, indeed, come a long way.”

Indeed they have fallen a long way.

[223] Posted by TLDillon on 8-11-2009 at 02:09 PM · [top]

Tried Festivus’s link, didn’t work for me.  Went to the site and found this link instead.

http://www.cog.org/interfaith/pwr/cogdf00.html 

Difference is the /pwr/

[224] Posted by The Lakeland Two on 8-11-2009 at 02:27 PM · [top]

You know, in reading through these, I’m think most of these rise to the level erroneous judgment, imperfect apprehension, poor comprehension.

St. Thomas defines heresy: “a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas”. “The right Christian faith consists in giving one’s voluntary assent to Christ in all that truly belongs to His teaching. There are, therefore, two ways of deviating from Christianity: the one by refusing to believe in Christ Himself, which is the way of infidelity, common to Pagans and Jews; the other by restricting belief to certain points of Christ’s doctrine selected and fashioned at pleasure, which is the way of heretics. The subject-matter of both faith and heresy is, therefore, the deposit of the faith, that is, the sum total of truths revealed in Scripture and Tradition as proposed to our belief by the Church. The believer accepts the whole deposit as proposed by the Church; the heretic accepts only such parts of it as commend themselves to his own approval. The heretical tenets may be ignorance of the true creed, erroneous judgment, imperfect apprehension and comprehension of dogmas: in none of these does the will play an appreciable part, wherefore one of the necessary conditions of sinfulness—free choice—is wanting and such heresy is merely objective, or material. On the other hand the will may freely incline the intellect to adhere to tenets declared false by the Divine teaching authority of the Church. The impelling motives are many: intellectual pride or exaggerated reliance on one’s own insight; the illusions of religious zeal; the allurements of political or ecclesiastical power; the ties of material interests and personal status; and perhaps others more dishonourable. Heresy thus willed is imputable to the subject and carries with it a varying degree of guilt; it is called formal, because to the material error it adds the informative element of “freely willed”. A man born and nurtured in heretical surroundings may live and die without ever having a doubt as to the truth of his creed. On the other hand a born Catholic may allow himself to drift into whirls of anti-Catholic thought from which no doctrinal authority can rescue him, and where his mind becomes incrusted with convictions, or considerations sufficiently powerful to overlay his Catholic conscience. It is not for man, but for Him who searcheth the mind and heart, to sit in judgment on the guilt which attaches to an heretical conscience.

[225] Posted by Festivus on 8-11-2009 at 03:09 PM · [top]

The Wiccan “Crone Liturgy” from the Diocese of Washington certainly needs to be added to this thread.  All the awful details here:
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/?/sf/page/24720

[226] Posted by Karen B. on 9-23-2009 at 03:50 PM · [top]

Table of how the Bishops and delegares voted on C056 and D025:
http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~lcrew/d025_c056.html

[227] Posted by martin5 on 9-28-2009 at 11:51 AM · [top]

San Francisco: Buddhist monks lead prayers at Episcopal Grace Cathedral.

h/t Perpetua of Carthage.

http://perpetuaofcarthage.blogspot.com/2009/09/san-francisco-buddhist-monks-lead.html

[228] Posted by Undergroundpewster on 9-28-2009 at 12:17 PM · [top]

Buddhist monks lead prayer in Grace Cathedral.
From Perpetua of Carthage: http://perpetuaofcarthage.blogspot.com/2009/09/san-francisco-buddhist-monks-lead.html

[229] Posted by Theodora on 9-29-2009 at 03:15 AM · [top]

Here’s the Easter sermon at one TEC parish in Augusta Georgia:

http://saint-augustines.blogspot.com/2010/04/easter-day-year-c-sunday-april-4-2010.html

Basically it says:
- The Gospels are made up by men.
- The idea that Jesus rose from the dead is ridiculous and there is no proof whatsoever.
- Believing in Jesus’ literal resurrection basically is only for those with brain damage.
- It doesn’t even matter if Jesus rose from the dead.  All that matters is our subjective religious experience.
- God is a she….

Here’s the text in full in case it disappears:

The Jesus Seminar, preached by Rev. Peter Courtney

Every year around this time the media magi think it would be a good idea to present any scholarly evidence they can find to prove that church goers are a sorry, deluded lot. I suspect they don’t care about the questions, but they hope the headlines will sell papers or advertizing. Part of their arsenal is the large number of biblical scholars who basically tell anyone who will listen that the church made up most of the stories about Jesus.

The truth is that the scholars are correct. The church did write the gospels and the gospels other people wrote with whom the powers didn’t like got excluded. Winners have always written history. But we have these stories have endured and here we are hearing them again. What are we to make of them.

I was sitting in St. Peter’s Church, Charlotte, NC catching my breath between Good Friday mediations. I was kind of drifting during the periods of silence between my remarks and the music.

Suddenly I was aware of an angel. A curious sort of angel, really, but an angel nonetheless. A young man of about 25 was lurching up the chancel steps holding onto the rails for all he was worth. He was trembling violently as with palsy. He clutched several pieces of Xeroxed paper in his hand.

He could have turned towards the rector who had invited me to preach on his left, but it was me he wanted to deliver his message. He was an angel, and angels deliver messages. He proffered the Xeroxed sheets which I accepted, and then he spoke in a low, trembly, but clear voice: “I am David Johnson Bullock. It is a miracle that I am alive. I had a near fatal motorcycle accident and Jesus brought me back from the dead. I give you these papers to prove that Jesus is alive and that he is raised from the dead that all might believe.” I thanked him. He turned on his heel and stumbled back down the steps and out of my range of vision. David be a brain-damaged angel, but an angel he is.

According to the Jesus Seminar, we must be brain-damaged to be here today celebrating an early church ruse and delusion. Many of us know different. We know by the message of an angel or a host of other experiences too numerous to fit in all the books of the world, that Jesus is alive. He is risen from the dead. We know further that we have been raised with him as the Apostle Paul proclaimed we would be. We know it because we gather weekly for the Prayers and the Breaking of the Bread. We know because we have seen miracles or lived them. We know because we have experienced holiness in ourselves and others. We know because we have been represented at the throne of God in worship. We just know by faith.

We don’t think the Jesus Seminar folks are bad or stupid. They are scientifically correct. They are also myopic. They ask questions that really don’t matter very much to those who are of the household of faith. When they solve all the rational problems of biblical interpretation, we will still be praying and breaking bread. We are brain-damaged, but hardly heart broken.

Every year someone asks me if I believe that Jesus was raised from the dead. I have several answers. One is: “It certainly seems like a very good idea!”

On a more serious note I usually say: “I don’t know about Jesus, but I know that I am raised from the dead.” Lots of us were lost and now are found. Lots of us were dead, or left for dead, or written off, or counted as nothing and then came back to life. These miracles happen all around us, often to us. What kind of God would we have who couldn’t do at least as much for his son and she does for so many of us?

[230] Posted by Karen B. on 4-27-2010 at 10:35 AM · [top]

Bishop Briedenthal of Southern Ohio embraces universalism, denies the uniqueness of Christ as THE Way, the Truth and the Life, and the only Way to the Father.  Good manners are more important to him than truth.

May 2010 Diocesan newspaper (page 2)
http://s3.amazonaws.com/dfc_attachments/public/documents/998/Interchange_-_May_2010.pdf

“... we may want to avoid linking eternal well-being to specific belief in Jesus. (It is a fact that it is courteous not to use the word “salvation” in inter-religious settings, since it is often heard as referring to specifically to Jesus as the only way to have any access to God.)”
[...]
“It is good to be clear that God loves everyone. It is a good thing to enter into dialogue with other faith communities, respecting their own life-giving experience of God. It is good to keep in mind that the primary object of salvation is the human race as a whole, along with the physical universe.”

[231] Posted by Karen B. on 5-11-2010 at 08:42 PM · [top]

From the UK this time, the Bishop of Gloucester, advocating without argument that ethics and holy orders are only “second order” issues for the Church (even the language of “first” and “second order” is to me far too simplistic), that we should all get along nicely, etc., and states that Church doctrine should come from a dialogue between “the biblical tradition and the cultural realities if the Church is to have any chance of ministering to people in the complexities of contemporary life.” A standard example of moral relativism.

http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/2010/05/13/michael-gloucester-advocates-pluralism/

[232] Posted by Boring Bloke on 5-14-2010 at 03:37 AM · [top]

The Pb’s Pentecost letter should be here as well but here is where she says that love has saved us ... This is the sermon preached at the Cathedral in Southwark.
http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/2010/06/13/presiding-bishop-preaches-at-southwark-cathedral-in-london/

[233] Posted by martin5 on 6-13-2010 at 03:39 PM · [top]

Not news in any way, but a thorough explication of the PB’s words where she denies the doctrines of the resurrection and the divinity of Christ: http://anglicanecumenicalsociety.wordpress.com/2010/02/08/what-do-people-mean-when-they-say-that-presiding-bishop-schori-has-denied-the-resurrection-or-the-divinity-of-christ/

[234] Posted by Wilf on 6-13-2010 at 04:28 PM · [top]

Something Kendall Harmon has posted at T19 merits inclusion in this thread.

http://www.kendallharmon.net/t19/index.php/t19/article/33742/

The Episcopal Cathedral in Seattle hosted an interfaith event in November 2010.  A pagan, a Muslim (Ann Holmes Redding, maybe?), a Jew, and an Episcopal priest all shared about the “tree of life”.

What was most sad was that although the Episcopal priest makes a good beginning by citing Jesus’ promise that He came that all might find abundant life in Him, she then goes WAY off the rails by telling others they can find life in Raven, and in the wind, that they are ways to Christ - even though she had quoted John 14:6 that Christ is THE Way, truth & life.  Oh so sad.  She contradicts the very Scriptures she quoted and fails to acknowledge that Jesus IS the One people must come to know abundant life. 

May the Lord protect all who attended this event from being deceived.  May all the false teaching fall away and only the words of Scripture, of truth stay in their minds.

[235] Posted by Karen B. on 12-14-2010 at 10:13 AM · [top]

Tec: This Good Friday, Let’s Celebrate Earth Day
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/sf/page/27356/
Good Friday and Earth Day become one for Tec.

[236] Posted by martin5 on 4-9-2011 at 09:16 PM · [top]

Just to add more to the earthen Lent of Tec…..
http://articles.courant.com/2010-02-16/news/hc-green-lent-0216.artfeb16_1_lent-carbon-fast

A green Lent could mean “thinking about the environment and doing things to save it for yourself and those who come after us,” said White-Hassler, whose church possesses the mind-set year-round. Since the summer, Grace Episcopal has been undergoing eco-friendly renovations and is considering solar panels.

http://articles.courant.com/2010-02-16/news/hc-green-lent-0216.artfeb16_1_lent-carbon-fast

Congratulations to Saint Matthew’s Episcopal Church in Fairbanks, Alaska, our newest Cool Congregation! Saint Matthew’s was nominated by Mary Walker, the Project Coordinator of Alaska IPL, for implementing a successful Carbon Fast during Lent last year.

http://interfaithpowerandlight.org/2010/01/success-stories-saint-matthew’s-episcopal-church/
More here:http://staugustineuri.com/
Here and they have a St. Pauls Gaia Guild http://www.stpaulsfay.org/id438.html
Even in England .....

[237] Posted by martin5 on 4-9-2011 at 09:29 PM · [top]

A revised version of the Good Friday Solemn Collects in the Diocese of Massachusetts can be found here:
http://www.diomass.org/webfm_send/1738

These will be used in a Good Friday celebration at the cathedral, so are apparently fully approved.

The BCP 1979 version of the Solemn Collects is here:
http://www.justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/Special_Days.pdf
(p. 276 - 282)

Throughout the new version of the Good Friday prayers, the need to believe in Jesus is consistently edited out, and there is a strong theme of universalism.

Just a few “highlights” or lowlights of the the revised prayers:

Old version:
Let us pray for all who have not received the Gospel of Christ; For those who have never heard the word of salvation.

New version:
I ask you to pray for all who have no faith, living lives without any sense of holiness or divine presence;
For those who have never heard words of hope or salvation

Old version:
... That God will open their hearts to the truth, and lead them to faith and obedience.

New Version:
That God will open their hearts to truth and love, and lead them to faith and obedience.

Old version:
Merciful God, creator of all the peoples of the earth and lover of souls: Have compassion on all who do not know you as you are revealed in your Son Jesus Christ; let your Gospel be preached with grace and power to those who have not heard it; turn the hearts of those who resist it; and bring home to your fold those who have gone astray; that there may be one flock under one shepherd, Jesus Christ our Lord.

New version:
Holy God, you created man and woman in your image: draw all people to yourself, that they may acknowledge you as the maker and redeemer of all; let your Gospel be preached with grace and power to those who have not heard it, that all people may know of your saving grace.

——-

On the surface, the new prayers may not seem so bad until you specifically look and see the pattern of what’s been cut, lots of VERY SPECIFIC references to the exclusivity of salvation through Christ, and definite articles “open their hearts to THE truth” becomes “open their hearts to truth and love”

There is a prayer ADDED about all life “co-existing” together in peace, and also, a prayer added for the peace of Jerusalem, which seems to include the children of Hagar as members of the Covenant! 

Holy God, long ago you gave your promise to Abraham and Sarah. Bless the people you first made your own; keep them and all who are descended from Abraham, Sarah and Hagar in the love of your Name, and in faithfulness to your covenant. Amen.

[See Galatians 4 for a refutation of that idea that children of Hagar are included in the covenant with children of Sarah ...!)

Throughout the need for conscious faith in Christ is downplayed.  God becomes the loving redeemer of all, and “the Gospel” as much or more about protecting Creation and working for social justice as proclaiming salvation through faith in Christ and His work on the Cross.

Very sad.

[238] Posted by Karen B. on 4-10-2011 at 03:28 PM · [top]

Episcopal church in Montclair (Diocese of Newark) inserts prayers from the Holy Qur’an into Communion service:

“During the interfaith service, verses from the Holy Qur’an will complement readings from the Holy Bible, including during Communion, embracing the traditions of both religions.”

“The Reverend went on to say, ‘We are trying to find ways to blend our community through religion. It’s hard, but we can accomplish it through this organic event and working together through outreach and other ministries of compassion.’”

Full story here.

[239] Posted by Undergroundpewster on 5-23-2011 at 02:00 PM · [top]

Atlanta to vote on rehabilitating Pelagius:

http://www.episcopalatlanta.org/Content/Resolutions_submitted_by_10_5_2011.asp

Stand Firm discussion here: http://www.standfirminfaith.com/?/sf/page/27952

I will try and remember to confirn after the vote on 11/5/11.

[240] Posted by Nikolaus on 10-23-2011 at 10:34 AM · [top]

Just catching up on reading a few blogs.  Underground Pewster’s blog entry about a bunch of TEC churches offering “solstice liturgies” very definitely deserves inclusion here:

http://lowly.blogspot.com/2011/12/solstice-liturgies-chasing-away-dragons.html

Here is part of the description of the solstice event at St. John the Divine in New York: [see here: ]http://solsticeconcert.com/]

The Cathedral of Saint John the Divine NYC Dec 15, 16, 17 2011

  [In 1980] the Cathedral hosted our first winter solstice. Over these 30 years, the event has evolved into a theatrical celebration that inhabits the entirety of this great space. Of all the places I’ve played in America, only two could host a concert on this scale: the Grand Canyon, and this Cathedral.

  This year, our 32nd annual show, will feature a special program by the dynamic Forces of Nature Dancers, as well as other special guest musicians. For me this solstice celebration is an ever-renewing thrill — whether watching the sun gong ascend 12 stories with its player to the vault of the Cathedral; or hearing the “tree of sounds” as it slowly turns, reflecting a myriad of lights from its hundreds of bells, gongs and chimes.

  Please join us as we celebrate the return of the sun. We celebrate not only the rebirth of the sun, but the community of life on earth.

[241] Posted by Karen B. on 12-28-2011 at 09:30 AM · [top]

After the FOX news story on Ragsdale and her abortion blessing. I was reminded of another priest who was welcomed at Ragsdale’s school:
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2011/3/prweb8236861.htm

Christians must reinterpret the bible. With the help of biblical scholars and God’s Spirit, we must reject the authority of those passages and interpretations that hurt human beings, other beings, and the Great Source of all being,” writes feminist theological scholar, Carter Heyward. Heyward will speak at Episcopal Divinity School in Cambridge on April 14*, and writes in her new book, Keep Your Courage: A Radical Christian Feminist Speaks, “No reading of the Bible should ever be used to demean, violate, or terrorize any brother or sister.” She stresses: “To love our enemies, regardless of how we may feel about them, is the most radical act in the realm of God.”

[242] Posted by martin5 on 2-13-2012 at 07:49 PM · [top]

Yet again, the blogger Underground Pewster has news of very disturbing developments in the Diocese of Upper South Carolina.  Children are being taught to make “talismans” at the Diocesan camp.

I have not had a lot of faith in Camp Gravatt since I posted a story earlier about creating fairy gardens there, but as if that wasn’t enough,  I recently got an alert from a number of concerned Upper South Carolinians about more “novel” activities that were coming to the conference center. The people at Camp Gravatt, the Episcopal Camp and Conference center in upper South Carolina are now making talismen,

  Arts Academy in the Woods
  Creating a Talisman with Mary How
  Thursday, September 20   4 - 6:30 PM

  “A talisman is an object held to act as a charm to avert evil and bring good fortune. Explore the act of creating meaningful art with intention. Learn to set a personal intention or goal, and create a talisman that can help you align with that intention. Bring 2 - 3 personal items that can be incorporated into your art. The $35 fee includes materials, instructor’s fee, and a light supper”.

Full blog entry with details here:
http://lowly.blogspot.com/2012/03/faith-formation-and-tec-budget-making.html

[243] Posted by Karen B. on 3-7-2012 at 11:11 AM · [top]

More information about the person leading the workshop can be found here:
http://angelfishcreations.com/about/

The website lists some other workshops here:
http://angelfishcreations.com/event/2012/03/15/arts-academy-in-the-woods/

I think I should refrain from comment about DioUSC and “Fairy Houses.”
grin

[244] Posted by Ralph on 3-7-2012 at 11:47 AM · [top]

What will be the final nail int he coffin of TEC as a “Christian Church”? Will it be hammered in at General Convention in July?

[245] Posted by Nellie on 3-7-2012 at 11:51 AM · [top]

One doesn’t need to be a rocket scientist to know what that final nail might be, Nellie; it’s been talked about for many months now.

[246] Posted by cennydd13 on 3-7-2012 at 12:13 PM · [top]

Yes. I fully expect that to happen. Our diocesan convention is in June - unfortuantely a month before General Convention. I wish it were going to be after it. I’m wondering what Albany will do about this.

[247] Posted by Nellie on 3-7-2012 at 12:19 PM · [top]

People, people, people,
If there hadn’t already been a “final nail”, as defined by so many already, there wouldn’t have been the wholesale departures of clergy and congregations up to this point.
And that’s just in our lifetime.  A “Final Nail” in the later 1800’s was the beginning of the Reformed Episcopal Church.  That’s not an excuse or justification.  It does point out, though, that what is being defined here as the end of a body determined to be “Christian” is brought forward from a precedent paradigm of division, that is, to make something else/new what “it” is supposed to be, rather than reform to bring “it” back to what it is intended to be.
Why should we define Heresy at all if it is not to say to ourselves, Wachet Auf!  Cuidado! Repent!, instead of saying “3 strikes and your out!?”  Isn’t that the purpose of this well-considered thread, that is, for apologetics and admonition?
“Final nails” get hammered into the Body of Christ every day, every way, in every place.  How is it that the Body of Christ suffers through that, continuing to be the Church?  And, directly related, how is it that we grow in perfection/holiness?  High minded and apostolically visioned, I know. But without a Christian organization actually saying “There is no Jesus Christ”, and completely removed from the Trinity, the real “Final Nail” has yet to be hammered.
In fact, it may be just the opposite:  are there any nails in this structure at all? And, How in the heck is this thing being held together?  Why doesn’t God just disregard his rainbow covenant and send another flood?

[248] Posted by Rob Eaton+ on 3-7-2012 at 04:17 PM · [top]

Words fail at describing this document (speech?) from Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori.

http://episcopalchurch.org/page/episcopal-church’s-opportunity-–-church-21st-century

The whole thing is awful, but the two most glaring points of concern were:

1. her non-Christian view of the Trinity (repeated over and over again)

The ancient church likened the trinity to a dance, a moving, dynamic, interdependent community – that is at the same time one.  It’s a circle dance (perichoresis), but not simple revolution.  It’s more like a transformative and evolving spiral in multiple dimensions.

2. her stated intention to totally reinvent how we “do” church, including baptism and the Eucharist.  This passage below is just totally incoherent, but yet also horridly disturbing if she is indeed saying that we can choose what baptism and the Eucharist and belief mean totally independent of what Scripture and tradition teach:

We are a people gathered by God to join the dance.  We’re challenged to respond to God’s creative work in local contexts, in continuity with the ancient tradition of the friends of Jesus.  We’re invited to imitate his way of living, to eat and drink it in, and then to share it with others.  We have tended to describe that as a linear sequence, as in “be bathed to belong to the body, be formed by eating, and then go and live like Jesus.”  The world around us seems to be leaning toward a far less linear mode, something like “behave, be formed, co-create” – rather more like that interactive dance with God.

There is a continual meme of God still creating, still revealing new things… but that’s no surprise.

This is just astonishingly AWFUL and shocking even though I / we should have long ago have lost the capacity to be shocked by her.  But she keeps plumbing new depths of horrid “theology.”

[249] Posted by Karen B. on 5-8-2012 at 08:27 AM · [top]

This thread may be almost irrelevant at this point, but surely we can’t neglect to add this heresy about Christ’s resurrection.

Bishop Marianne Budde of the Diocese of Washington (D.C.) wrote her diocese about Easter (and may have preached this too… I’m not sure)

Someone once asked me if I thought the resurrection was necessary. He meant it in the most sincere way, as a person of both faith and doubt who wondered if we needed to be bound by so unreasonable a proposition that Jesus’ tomb was, in fact, empty on that first Easter morning.

I hesitated in answering, because there seemed to be layers of argument behind the question. My answer was yes, resurrection is the foundation of Christian faith, but probably not in the way he meant it.

To say that resurrection is essential doesn’t mean that if someone were to discover a tomb with Jesus’ remains in it that the entire enterprise would come crashing down. The truth is that we don’t know what happened to Jesus after his death, anymore than we can know what will happen to us. What we do know from the stories handed down is how Jesus’ followers experienced his resurrection. What we know is how we experience resurrection ourselves.

That experience is the beginning of faith, not in the sense of intellectual acceptance of an outlandish proposition, but of being touched by something so powerful that it changes you, or so gentle that it gives you courage to persevere when life is crushingly hard. It is experiencing a presence so forgiving that you can at last forgive yourself for your greatest failings, and forgive those whose failings have wounded you, and so loving that your own capacity to love expands beyond your wildest imagining.

whole thing here:
http://www.edow.org/bishops_blog/2013/03/28/resurrection

[250] Posted by Karen B. on 4-6-2013 at 04:52 PM · [top]

Bishop Marc Andrus has some very questionable Christological beliefs to say the least…, and he eagerly embraces Eastern Mysticism:

http://bishopmarc.typepad.com/blog/2013/05/maximum-maternal-care.html

http://lowly.blogspot.com/2013/06/marcs-magical-mandala-tour-part-1.html

[251] Posted by Karen B. on 6-5-2013 at 07:09 AM · [top]

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