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Greg Griffith

Parish Settles for $42,500 Over Rio Grande Bishop Nominee’s Sermon

Monday, March 1, 2010 • 6:00 am

When Nieman subsequently became rector he was advised about the situation, according to Pompelio. The lawsuit says the rector met personally with “A.B.” in December 1993 and was told, “in confidence” that the father had agreed in writing to avoid bringing his lover to church. Nieman took to the pulpit before the congregation and, using the names of the people involved, criticized those in his flock who wanted the choirmaster to be discreet.


We’ve discovered some rather disturbing news about the Rev. John Nieman, a nominee for bishop of the Diocese of Rio Grande. The facts are described in two news articles we’ve collected and linked to here.

It’s important to get the sequence of events right, because it underscores the nature and depth of Nieman’s transgression.

Ready? The story is found in this article by the New Jersey Star-Ledger:

According to the lawsuit, the woman’s former husband, identified only as “E.F.,” was hired by St. Mary’s in 1982 as choirmaster and director of music. It notes that the woman is also a musician and music teacher and that the couple had three children.

The youngest child, a boy identified as “A.B.” and named as a plaintiff, is now 15.

The couple was divorced in 1992, two years after separating, says the complaint. “Subsequent to the marital separation, “E.F.” advised his wife and children that he had entered into homosexual relationships with other males and acknowledged that he was homosexual,” says the lawsuit.

The revelation deeply affected “A.B.,” according to the court papers. The lawsuit says the child “experienced emotional distress and was extremely self-conscious about his father’s homosexuality and the effect it would have upon him among peers in the community of Sparta Township.”

The lawsuit says the former husband, from 1992 to 1995 “invited his male lover to attend services.” It says the presence of the father’s new partner added to his son’s emotional distress.

The situation was brought to the attention of a former church rector in 1992 “by a church member and close friend of the family,” according to the complaint. The friend suggested the gay man “should not risk the emotional well-being of his son by having his lover present while performing his duties as choirmaster,” says the lawsuit.

It adds the former rector advised the choirmaster to use “proper discretion” and show concern for his son. After the advice was given, the man’s lover stopped showing up for Sunday services, says the complaint.

Got all that? Man leaves his wife, decides he’s gay, continues to come to church - where his 15-year old son and ex-wife still attend - only now with his gay lover at his side,

Teenage son is understandably devastated, after which a compromise - centered on the child’s well-being - is worked out between the gay couple and the rector who preceded Nieman.

Then Nieman arrives.

Remember, “A.B.” is the son:

When Nieman subsequently became rector he was advised about the situation, according to Pompelio. The lawsuit says the rector met personally with “A.B.” in December 1993 and was told, “in confidence” that the father had agreed in writing to avoid bringing his lover to church.

Let’s review: Nieman met with the teenage son. The teenager told him, in confidence, that a compromise had been worked out, a compromise evidently taken seriously enough by all parties that it was committed to writing.

What does Nieman do after this meeting?

The lawsuit said the father adhered to the agreement for about a year, but then showed up with his partner at Christmas Eve services in 1994. Pompelio’s client spoke with the Right Rev. Bishop John Spong, of the Diocese of Newark, seeking a meeting with the local church vestry, composed of the pastor and lay members elected by the congregation. Pompelio said the meeting was never scheduled.

Instead, on Jan. 15, Nieman brought up the whole affair in a long sermon Pompelio believes was heard by about 225 people. A copy of the 6-page sermon is attached to the lawsuit as an exhibit.

In the sermon, Nieman, who did not respond to a request for comment, said the issue had “plagued St. Mary’s for at least six years,” and should be faced openly.

“We have been in denial now for about six years,” said the priest, freely using the names of those involved. “And while we have been living in that state, accusations and innuendoes have continued to be hurled around, usually behind the scenes. ... Hatred has grown and hostility has festered.”

Nieman flatly stated he would take no part in asking anybody to refrain from attending his church because of their sexual orientation. “Nor will he or she be expected to hide his or her sexual orientation by, for example, leaving a partner at home,” said the rector. “The dignity of gay and lesbian people will be respected here because they are human beings.”

Pompelio stressed the lawsuit is not about “gay rights,” but about the rector’s violation of his client’s right to privacy.

And the outcome of the suit? St. Mary’s had to cough up over forty-two large:

An Episcopal church has agreed to pay $42,500 to a woman who accused a pastor of humiliating her and her family when he gave sermons urging tolerance of her gay ex-husband.
...
A former church rector persuaded the choirmaster to use “proper discretion” in church. But after Nieman arrived in 1994, Scott’s former husband again brought his companion to services.

During this time Nieman took to the pulpit before the congregation and, using the names of the people involved, criticized those in his flock who wanted the choirmaster to be discreet.

In settling the lawsuit, the church admitted no wrongdoing.

There you go, Rio Grande.

The Rev. John Nieman.

Nominated to be your next bishop.


Comments:

And your point is what?  He was speaking truth to power, man!  Those old fuddy-dudddies had it coming.  Being able to bring to your lover to church, be they male, female of she-male is a fundamental human right.  Why are you so filled with hate?

[1] Posted by Bill2 on 03-01-2010 at 05:58 AM • top

“Got all that? Man leaves his wife, decides he’s gay, continues to come to church”

Dead stop. That’s where the whole thing ought to have ended in either the repentance of the man and reconciliation with his wife Or excommunication.

This story, in addition to being a horrendous human tragedy made worse by a vowbreaking priest—is also a fine illustration of the need for church discipline.

[2] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 03-01-2010 at 06:48 AM • top

The proper thing to do would have been to ask the organist/music director to find another job after the revelation that he had left his family in order to pursue other sexual interests.  There was a case in a parish I attended at about the same time where a choir director was separated from her husband and began sleeping with the youth minister.  Both the choir leader and the youth minister were asked to leave their posts.  And this was a liberal parish in a liberal diocese!  There’s nothing about “gay” that should make the rules inapplicable.

[3] Posted by Katherine on 03-01-2010 at 07:01 AM • top

How things of changed. Marney patterson, the evangelist, tells in his book tells of a situation where a separated choirmaster was discovered to be sharing an apartment with a widowed President of the Women’s Auxiliary. Marney asked the choirmaster in for a discussion and the choirmaster, when he discovered what the discussion was to be about, told Marney to go staright to hell. Marney told the man to think about the situation and he would talk to him again in a month. At the meeting a month later, the choirmaster again told him to go to Hell. marney, not knowing what to do next, wrote to his bishop, Fred Wilkinson. A few days later he got a call from Wilkinson. Wilkinson said mrney, you asked for my counsel, but I’m not giving it, “I’m giving you an *order*. Dismiss both of those people from office before the sun sets, or you are out of the ministry.”

[4] Posted by Toral1 on 03-01-2010 at 07:21 AM • top

TEC, whether it acknowledges it or not (and whether or not the spineless revisionist AbC ever does anything at all except mollycoddle TEC) IS under discipline.  A spirit has entered TEC, and it is decidedly NOT holy.

TEC is beginning to reap what it has sown = declining numbers of all sorts, non-existent evangelism, non-existent leadership nearly across the board, horrible witness as a “church”, TEC’s multiple pretenses laying a bed of lies from which it cannot rise…

That being said, the only quarter from which one could actually expect discipline to come rigged the game at every turn, the AbC.

[5] Posted by Athanasius Returns on 03-01-2010 at 07:28 AM • top

RE: “There’s nothing about “gay” that should make the rules inapplicable.”

True—but the rules *are* inapplicable, because gay is a special sexual orientation for which various clergy and bishops of TEC have decided that rules don’t apply.

See, the folks who wanted the man not to come to his church with his gay lover were homophobic bigots, not morally outraged people who came up with their own version of church discipline to protect the wronged parties, which were in fact, the son and wife.

Heterosexual adultery—a sexual orientation towards another gender who is not one’s wife—is very different from homosexual adultery—a sexual orientation towards the same gender but who is not one’s wife.

In the case of the latter, the poor man was oppressed by the neanderthals in the congregation who didn’t properly understand just how special his orientation was.  He’s the victim here!

Remember, John Nieman applauded Gene Robinson’s approval at General Convention—http://web.archive.org/web/20050317035948/http://www.standrewsaa.org/tempfiles/sermons/02-18-2004-sexuality-jn.htm

—and apparently performed same sex blessings as well—
http://www.pridesource.com/article.html?article=9305

It’s all in keeping with his foundational worldview.

[6] Posted by Sarah on 03-01-2010 at 07:51 AM • top

There are many capable priests without a scandal like this in their background.  The fact that he was nominated speaks volumes about the bishop nominating committee of Rio Grande.

[7] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 03-01-2010 at 08:14 AM • top

The ironic part of this story is that progressives will read it and see John Nieman as the hero. Here is the competing narrative:

1.  The ex-husband (AB) is a victim of heteronormativity.  Because of the oppressive culture around him, he suppressed his natural sexuality, and entered into a marriage that should never have been.  It was a marriage induced by oppression.

2.  Changing cultural standards allowed AB the option of accepting his authentic sexuality.  He could no longer lie to himself or his wife or his children.  These now become the second, third, fourth, and fifth victims of heteronormativity as they now must endure the pain of separation.

3.  The agreement to keep AB’s partner away only serves to propagate forward the very heteronormative attitudes that caused this problem in the first place.  To attack the root of the problem, the attitudes at fault must exposed and excised.  The son (EF) should not be distressed by the fact that his father (AB) is gay.  The only reason EF would be distressed is that he has been pre-conditioned by homophobia in himself and his peers. 

4.  Silence is the enemy of exposure and the ally of oppression.  Enter John Nieman who decides to cast light on this situation and drive away the darkness.  He names the problem in public, and strikes a blow against heteronormative oppression. 

It may have been difficult for the wife (CD) and the son (EF) but there are larger stakes on the table.  The right to publicly display one’s homosexual preference has been affirmed.  Perceived stigma has been repudiated as a reason for hiding authentic homosexuality.  In addition, there will be fewer ABs and CDs and EFs in the future because homosexual men will no longer feel the pressure from a homophobic culture to marry.  Not a bad day’s work for $42,500. 

All the sins in this story - the betrayal of wedding vows, the adultery, the abandonment of children - they all get propitiated by the magic of authenticity.  Because AB was ‘truly homosexual’ he wasn’t really bound by promises he made under the influence of oppression.  He has a right to live the authentic life no matter the cost to others.  Authenticity is the prerequisite for happiness, and happiness as we know is the sole purpose of man.

carl

[8] Posted by carl on 03-01-2010 at 08:20 AM • top

Matt Kennedy:

Dead stop. That’s where the whole thing ought to have ended in either the repentance of the man and reconciliation with his wife Or excommunication.

Hmmm!  Excommunication for a man who leaves his wife to take up with another man, then flaunts it in Church.

In my parish, we let the blue haired old ladies handle stuff like that.  They’re all combat veterans and know exactly what to do.

Those characters would be taken off the guest list for their hen parties in a New York minute.  Practically guaranteeing that they’d never be seen again, not unless they decided to shape up.

We think the punishment should fit the crime.

What are you, some kind of liberal?  tongue laugh

[9] Posted by episcopalienated on 03-01-2010 at 08:25 AM • top

carl, as usual, a deft speaking of the other side’s agruments for them to show them as they truly are.  But “A.B.” is the youngest child, a boy, “E.F.” is the divorced now out-of-the-closet gay father, and the divorced wife/mother, to whom the $42K was apparently and justly paid, is not named in the blockquotes.

[10] Posted by Milton on 03-01-2010 at 08:50 AM • top

I think his first hand experience with litigation is an excelent preperation for being a TEC bishop.

Wasn’t Rio Grande supposed to be one of those somewhat conservative dioceses?  Or have all the conservatives already left in the lest 7 years?

[11] Posted by AndrewA on 03-01-2010 at 08:59 AM • top

AndrewA, after +Jeffrey Steenson retired as bishop and then crossed the Tiber the conservative exodus proceeded rather quickly, as I recall.

[12] Posted by Milton on 03-01-2010 at 09:04 AM • top

subscribe for now-thanks
Intercessor

[13] Posted by Intercessor on 03-01-2010 at 09:13 AM • top

Dead stop. That’s where the whole thing ought to have ended in either the repentance of the man and reconciliation with his wife Or excommunication.

If one employs that sort of standard (and believe me, I would be all for it) you would excommunicate (not to mention depose) every bishop who denied the Resurrection or voted to depose a fellow bishop illegally, and every priest who communes the un-baptized or removes the Creed from Eucharist services.  You would end up with some dioceses that would only have 5 clergy left.  And they would be retirees.

[14] Posted by tjmcmahon on 03-01-2010 at 09:14 AM • top

yeah

[15] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 03-01-2010 at 09:28 AM • top

It sounds like he would fit right in to the HoB. I agree with Carl’s notion that progressives will love this guy.

[16] Posted by Undergroundpewster on 03-01-2010 at 10:09 AM • top

[14] tjmcmahon,

Your assessment is probably only slightly exaggerated. And the reason that TEC has come to where it is, is the adamant and resolute refusal on the part of TEC bishops and PBs, including the current Prevaricating Bishop of TEC, to (a) live by, and (b) require those under their charge to live by, the established standards of Christian conduct.

I assume that, despite the dire consequences of your assessment, you would have little problem with the steadfast and consistent application of those standards?

Pax et bonum,
Keith Töpfer

[17] Posted by H. Potter (aka Martial Artist) on 03-01-2010 at 10:27 AM • top

In my church the grey haired old ladies have been terrified for years now!  Just trying to hold onto 15 minutes of time (usually at 0800 on Sunday morning) when they might again here the prayers of their faith. Of course might is the operative condition here—it really means they will get to use Rite II only if they do not resist what is going on in TEC. No more resistance in my old parish!

[18] Posted by lost on 03-01-2010 at 11:57 AM • top

More behaving badly in the Diocese of Newark. 

I feel deeply sorry for A.B.; his father is obviously a narcissistic dolt. 

Spong(or whoever was bishop in 1994) should at least have had a little chat with Nieman about violating all the privacy in the sermon, but you can’t expect anyone in that diocese to be objective or fair about anything where homosexuality is concerned, even if sexual orientation is a completely tangential issue. 

Somebody obviously agreed with me for $42,500 reasons.  I’m happy about that part of it for the boy and his mother.

[19] Posted by Anti-Harridan on 03-01-2010 at 12:17 PM • top

tjmcmahon (#14): “You would end up with some dioceses that would only have 5 clergy left.  And they would be retirees.”
And you say that like its a bad thing.

YBIC,
Phil Snyder

[20] Posted by Philip Snyder on 03-01-2010 at 12:28 PM • top

17 and 20-
Friends,
Please note: I prefaced my remarks with-
“If one employs that sort of standard (and believe me, I would be all for it)”
I believe this makes clear that TEC were to reduce its ranks of clergy tomorrow to those who believe in and preach the Word of God, I would completely support the move.  TEC has taken it upon itself to depose most of the real priests I know personally, and has made evident in their deposition of any of several bishops that they no longer desire to be in communion with the Church.  I, certainly, have no doubt that many of the episcopal sees of TEC are vacant, irregardless of some person using them as a chair from time to time.  And certainly no problem should the Church choose to recognize this fact formally.

[21] Posted by tjmcmahon on 03-01-2010 at 12:43 PM • top

It seems to me that the Bishop, at the very least, has a responsibility to convey to his flock the clear message as it is presented in Scripture.
Fallible humans (including Bishops) do not foresee all of the consequences of acting against Scripture but this is a good illustration of the damage people can do to their family and community when they simply don’t know, or overtly dismiss the Word of God as it is portrayed in Scripture. 
Now that the choirmaster has lost his family, I have to wonder if he ever wishes he had controlled his sexual feelings and stayed married.

[22] Posted by Betty See on 03-01-2010 at 01:21 PM • top

Bottom Feeder # 19, You said “I’m happy about that part of it for the boy and his mother”.  I agree, but the money won’t replace the love and respect that the child should be able to expect from his father”.

[23] Posted by Betty See on 03-01-2010 at 01:30 PM • top

If there’s another side to the story, it better be really, really, really good.

[24] Posted by James Manley on 03-01-2010 at 01:39 PM • top

Conservatives began to leave under and with the help of Steenson and his new junta.

[25] Posted by francis on 03-01-2010 at 02:05 PM • top

Betty See, I said “I’m happy about that part of it”...it follows that there are other parts I am seriously not happy about, as also evidenced by the fact that I called the young man’s father a “narcissistic dolt”. I’ve never said anywhere that money is a replacement for anything, least of all love and respect. 

Also for the record, all the narcissists I know have sucked as parents, as they usually have too much love and respect for themselves to give any to their children. 

AB has my most sincere prayers, and I understand it because I’ve had to live by a similar philosophy…sometimes what you cannot get from a lacking parent, you can find within yourself.

[26] Posted by Anti-Harridan on 03-01-2010 at 02:31 PM • top

Spong was involved with this? Why am I not surprised???

[27] Posted by bdino on 03-01-2010 at 03:13 PM • top

The family probably just wanted to put this behind them, and that’s why they settled for 42K.  If a priest did this to my family I’d be livid and want the whole damn place shut down.

[28] Posted by Nasty, Brutish & Short on 03-01-2010 at 03:35 PM • top

(To #12 Milton)
The “conservative exodus” was well under way BEFORE +Steenson actually retired and went to Rome.  He helped facilitate a Christian and collegial departure of the largest parish in the Diocese, St. Clement’s (with its property under a written agreement, and despite KJS’ interference) in 2007. The Standing Committee quickly slammed that door shut soon after he left….much to the chagrin and displeasure of many of our friends throughout New Mexico and West Texas!  Now, as other posts allude, the once-strong and controlling conservative bloc at DRG Convention is gone and there’s every indication the Diocese will slide deeply into the shadows of liberal and post-modern theology with this election.

[29] Posted by detzold on 03-01-2010 at 03:55 PM • top

BF, Post 24, I hope you didn’t think I was disagreeing with you in any way, I just wanted to add another aspect to what you had to say.

[30] Posted by Betty See on 03-01-2010 at 04:30 PM • top

I am the attorney who represented the young victim in this case.  I recall vividly how he had to sit through a long deposition from Neiman’s lawyer. His courage in withstanding the intense questioning by the lawyer while the person who caused him the harm sat nearby glaring at him is something that, as a lawyer, I will never forget.  There was one hero in the room that day.

[31] Posted by rpompelio on 03-01-2010 at 08:17 PM • top

tj wrote:

If one employs that sort of standard (and believe me, I would be all for it) you would excommunicate (not to mention depose) every bishop who denied the Resurrection or voted to depose a fellow bishop illegally, and every priest who communes the un-baptized or removes the Creed from Eucharist services.  You would end up with some dioceses that would only have 5 clergy left.  And they would be retirees.

chances wd be very high that those dioceses might start growing again….  “If we preach it, they will come,” cd be the motto of evangelical churches.

[32] Posted by maineiac on 03-01-2010 at 08:19 PM • top

Shameful.  Not that I’m suprised anymore, from the chuch that has no shame.

[33] Posted by Marty the Baptist on 03-01-2010 at 09:19 PM • top

The person being excommunicated also benefits tremendously from the process, or at least he may.

It is the Church’s way of telling him that things have gone horribly wrong, and that his misdeeds are part of a problem which now lies beyond the means of ordinary penitential discipline to address.

Done the right way, and for the right reasons (and I think the case under discussion here certainly qualifies), it can also be a loving pastoral response to the miscreant himself.

Entirely necessary and desirable for the life and health of Holy Mother Church, it is a “wake up call” of major proportions which includes an invitation to return to her embrace, upon evidence of sincere repentance and amendment of life.

A reminder that the One who came to seek and to save that which was lost is still interested, but only on His terms.  How could it be any other way?

I think that someone who responds in an appropriate manner has undergone a great work of grace in his life, and who could not rejoice over that?

He must humble himself in order to return to a Church which had the wherewithal to put him out.  The deadly sin of Pride being what it is in all of us, that is surely no easy task.

The exercise which he must undergo may prove to be one in which a merciful Providence has helped him to develop something like the heroic virtue that is called for in the Christian life, and he may even surpass the rest of us in that area.  I hope that such a person will always find a welcome in my Church.

The obstinate sinner receives, and provides, a great blessing too, although he may not think it.  He is preserved from doing any more harm to the Church than he has already done, and he serves as a salutary example to those who might otherwise follow in the direction he has gone.

[34] Posted by episcopalienated on 03-01-2010 at 09:21 PM • top

I can remember hearing about similar stories to this one, that occured when I was knee-high to a grasshopper.  The only detail that was different was that the adultery was between the man and another woman.  The husband and wife were left to scuffle about who had rights to friends and church affiliation, while the “pastor” sat on his hands. 

Such stories make me wonder - was it the cowardice occuring ad nuaseum in the ivory towers of Christendom that eventually sapped down to the parish level, or was it the cowardice at the parish level that eventually built up to the Indaba discussions of the Present?

[35] Posted by Moot on 03-01-2010 at 09:42 PM • top

The gay issue (and I’m not denying the sins of the boy’s dad) isn’t what’s important here. This is about a priest of the Church violating a confidence, violating trust, and quite possibly destroying the faith of a teenager, in order to make a political point. I can imagine the boy’s thoughts: ‘If Fr. Nieman is God’s ordained representative, why should I want to have anything to do with God?’

And Nieman, after seeing how he had damaged the youth, instead of resigning from the priesthood and taking a job with Greyhound, may now become a bishop?

A priest who cannot keep confidences has no business in the priesthood.  I can only hope that he’s low-church enough that he doesn’t hear confessions.

May God have mercy upon him.  I’m not sure I could, though.

[36] Posted by Conego on 03-01-2010 at 11:50 PM • top

And this guy wants to be a BISHOP?  My God!  I pity the poor people of that diocese if he gets elected!

[37] Posted by Cennydd on 03-02-2010 at 01:35 AM • top

Cennydd #37, what’s worse is someone in that diocese wants him as bishop.  I pray for AB and the others hurt.  May God guide the process so that His desires fills the position.

[38] Posted by The Lakeland Two on 03-02-2010 at 08:02 AM • top

rpompelio, I hope there’s a way for you to communicate with the young man…tell him there are people who deeply admire his courage, and pray for him in the aftermath of this situation.  The lawsuit might be settled, but he’ll probably deal with the family repercussions for life. 

I used to live near Sparta—it’s a wealthy, educated area where people should know better than to act like this…goes to show that education, especially in the case of some priests(revisionist and/or traditional) is not necessarily directly proportional to human decency. 

The young man and his family, especially his mother, have my prayers. 

And if Nieman is elected bishop, that will be simply a little more Peter Principle for The Episcopal Church.  Not surprising, but still disgusting.

[39] Posted by Anti-Harridan on 03-02-2010 at 09:06 AM • top

This man is perfect material for a bishop in TEC.  Let me list just a few reasons:

1. He is motivated more by sexual politics than faithfulness to the Christian tradition.

2. He shows a penchant for using the pulpit to promote homosexuality at any cost.

3. He obviously doesn’t care about pastoral ethics, so he will go along with whatever the PB wants.

4. What is best for children is not as important as the progressive agenda.

These are just a few preliminary thoughts, but I think he could be a wonderful compliment to a HOB that includes the likes of JJ Bruno, John Chane, Stacy Sauls, and Skip Adams.

-Jim+

[40] Posted by FrJim on 03-02-2010 at 10:27 AM • top

So, do y’all think that pastoral confidence will be a priority of Nieman’s if he gets elected bishop?

The greatest predictor of present and future behavior is past behavior.

[41] Posted by Anti-Harridan on 03-02-2010 at 11:44 AM • top

Conego #36—Watch it! Greyhound is a perfectly honorable place to work.

On the serious side—Mr. Pompelio #31—Thank you for this chilling testimonial:

[The young victim’s] courage in withstanding the intense questioning by the lawyer while the person who caused him the harm sat nearby glaring at him is something that, as a lawyer, I will never forget. 

To Rio Grande: Caveat emptor.

[42] Posted by Gator on 03-02-2010 at 02:34 PM • top

The Episcopal Church has become a joke.  A joke to us Romans and a joke to its own congregations.  I see many of my friends, who are Episcopal priests, wanting to leave and return to Rome due to the idiocy that is demonstrated through stories like this.

[43] Posted by donny1 on 03-02-2010 at 03:21 PM • top

Greg
I gave you this story a month ago:

John Nieman once got sued by a parishioner for invasion of her privacy.  Some of the story is here:  http://books.google.com/books?id=kGMEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA14&lpg=PA14&dq;=“john+nieman”+&+newark+&+sparta&source=bl&ots=hGa9LKBGch&sig=Q_sIeo1z0bJb9GJCX-pk1P-C8A0&hl=en&ei=1T5wS-mPG8zL8Qbch739BQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CBUQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=“john nieman” & newark & sparta&f=false
[23] Posted by DaveG on 02-08-2010 at 10:48 AM

[44] Posted by DaveG on 03-03-2010 at 06:34 PM • top

donny 1,  First take out the beam from your own eye! 
We have our own shameful stories, and some of them are worse than this story, by far.  Rod Dreher who did investigative journalism about the scandals was a Catholic convert who couldn’t stand to stay Catholic knowing everything he did know.  He became Orthodox, and said he would not investigate any Orthodox scandals,  because he had to have a church left that he could go to! 
Also I think your comment is discourteous to our hosts, and treading the edge of the comment rule that one is not allowed to come here and say “Everyone here should immediately….leave the Episcopal church,  join ACNA…become Catholic…become Orthodox…become Southern Baptist,....become Missouri Synod Lutheran etc.    On certain threads people can say why they in particular took the path they took. 
Just a word to the wise.
Susan Peterson

[45] Posted by eulogos on 03-03-2010 at 06:44 PM • top

Gater (#36): Of course Greyhound is an honorable place to work… but it’s also a place where the driver is supposed to not just know but make public and specific announcements about the physical location of his ‘clients’. Given that the priest is responsible for the spiritual location of his ‘clients’, but forbidden to make such announcements, I just thought that Nieman had missed his true calling…

No insult to Greyhound… although I don’t want to remember all the hours I spent in Greyhoound buses in my younger days.

[46] Posted by Conego on 03-03-2010 at 09:55 PM • top

DaveG,

Yes, thank you for the link, but there was a lot more we had to do in order to make this post the way we did.

[47] Posted by Greg Griffith on 03-04-2010 at 10:05 AM • top

Re:14
We didn’t,
We don’t,
and that is why we are in the mess we are in now!
Pax!!

[48] Posted by r3ussell on 03-04-2010 at 12:50 PM • top

Greg
Sorry if my post above made it sound like I was looking for some kind of credit.  I was not.  I merely wanted to suggest it took a long time to get the story to page one.  I have met John Nieman.  He is a loyal company man.  Unfortunately, the company is corrupt.

[49] Posted by DaveG on 03-04-2010 at 01:41 PM • top

#28   Nasty, Brutish & Short:

If you were in that position, I could recommend a find attorney to support your case.  His name is Beers and he would even come with a bishop to match

[50] Posted by Bill C on 03-04-2010 at 05:38 PM • top

#36 Conego:

I disagree with your statement that this horrible incident is about a priest breaking a confidence.  That is an issue indeed but the real ‘crime’ in my eyes is the complete lack of love and caring of a ‘father’ for his son -knowing how this would affect his the young man.  This is an issue, as many have said, that is not simply a homosexual shocker but would equally apply in the break-up of a heterosexual marriage.  The disgusting behaviour of the priest just rubs salt into the wound.

[51] Posted by Bill C on 03-04-2010 at 05:54 PM • top

#51 Bill C:
If you’ll note, I prefaced my comment by saying that I was not in any way denying the sins of the father, and went on to write about what was most important here.  “Here” in this case is a thread about a nominee for bishop who has demonstrated that he is not capable of keeping confidences and is willing to put his political stances over the feelings of a abandoned fifteen year old boy as well as the boy’s equally abandoned mother.

The father had seriously damaged his son a year ago and was continuing to do so by bringing his partner to church.  The rector and wanna-be bishop publically humiliated the boy in front of some 225 people, including, we must suppose, his fellow members of the youth group, etc.

The boy’s relationship with his father was already broken. The priest may have destroyed the boy’s relationship with his Father, and given that this is a thread about that priest’s suitability for consecration as a Bishop of Christ’s Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, I would still say that, here, the priest’s actions are what’s truly salient.

I would add that the fact that the search committee either didn’t research their candidates well enough to know about this case (and I think that typing a possible candidate’s name into ‘Google’ should constitute at least minimum “due diligence”), in which case they should be fired and the search process begun anew, or else they did know about this and just didn’t care, which is far more disturbing.

Would any priest in a diocese where this man was bishop be willing to tell him anything in confidence? Could members of a parish, concerned about their own priest, feel that they could talk to their bishop in confidence without having their names and concerns show up in the first paragraph of his monthly newsletter?

When this news broke, here and on VirtueOnLine (at least), Nieman gave a response, a response in which he expressed no remorse, no sense that he had learned anything, no hint that he might handle things differently now.

Given that this now all very much in the public, I can only think that if the Diocese of Rio Grande elects him, they’ll deserve what they get.

[52] Posted by Conego on 03-05-2010 at 05:38 AM • top

Conego, I understand why you think “that this now all very much in the public” but do you think it is publicly known in the Diocese of Rio Grande?  I still have to wonder if church members there know how their Bishop nominee, the Rev. John Nieman, treated this young boy who misfortunately placed his trust in him.

[53] Posted by Betty See on 03-05-2010 at 05:34 PM • top

53- Very good point.
One can only assume that if the Rev. Nieman thought convention delegates know (in any numbers), he would have withdrawn his name. (Of course, he obviously believes this was not only correct behavior, but indeed commendable, else he would never have submitted his name in the first place.)

One can also assume that if the nominating committee knows, they have withheld the information intentionally, because they think this is the sort of bishop they would like to have- the sort that will shove his agenda down the throat of teenagers and abuse anyone who stands in the way publicly in front of the diocese.

One would assume that if there were any orthodox Piskies left in Rio Grande, they would be mailing this story to the local papers.

But in all likelihood, in a few weeks, we will be hearing from convention delegates after they vote him in, saying, “we didn’t know.” (think Georgia, Upper South Carolina, etc.)  The real shame is that people go to conventions to vote in bishops, without having done an hour of homework googling these guys and their parishes.

[54] Posted by tjmcmahon on 03-05-2010 at 06:28 PM • top

#s 52, 53,
It may very well be that folks there don’t know… despite its obvious advantages, the disadvantage to the blogosphere is that for the most part we only hear and speak to people we already agree with, minimizing the sharing of information (even if incomplete or one-sided information) that was the case when most of America listened to the same broadcasts by Walter Cronkite or Huntley & Brinkley on the evening news. [And of course it’s not just the blogosphere, but expansion of news sources since cable—instead of three similar corporate-owned networks and maybe a local station or two, now there is a plethora of competing sources, each seeking its own societal niche, and those who get their news from FOX live in a different world from those who get their news from Public Television to those who get their news from Stephen Colbert or The Daily Show(and I wish I were kidding, but when I see things such as this: [url=http://www.amazon.com/Satire-TV-Politics-Comedy-Post-Network/dp/0814731996]http://www.amazon.com/Satire-TV-Politics-Comedy-Post-Network/dp/0814731996[/url], it’s hard not to despair).
 

Not knowing whether or not there are any “orthodox Piskies” left in Rio Grande, I hope that someone from outside the diocesan boundaries would write to some of those local papers.  I fear that I’m from too far outside those bounds… a letter on what might be seen as a local issue, but with a foreign postmark (I’m a missioner in northern Portugal—hence the “Cónego”) would appear to be too clearly “foreign meddling”.

[55] Posted by Conego on 03-06-2010 at 08:44 PM • top

#54 -TJM - Hasn’t anyone told you yet that “Googling” or researching on the internet is a sin in TEC?

[56] Posted by The Lakeland Two on 03-07-2010 at 04:47 AM • top

Lakeland Two-
Hmmmmmm…..during the Forrester debacle, I had a taste of just how a diocese (and the HoBD listserve) views “5 or 6 malcontents” who do things like quote what bishop candidates actually say, or write, or what they chose to alter in the Prayer Book.  Of course, we “malcontents” were unable to respond on the listserve or in the diocesan newsletter to various charges of “malicious” dispersal of the facts.
But we were able to find forums where we could be heard. And once there was a published “opposition” people came to our aid from literally all over the world. And who knew when all that started that +Tom Breidenthal of all people, would come along and utterly devastate Forrester’s candidacy.  Sometimes, if the truth gets out, you find assistance coming from the most unlikely places.
It takes people within the diocese as well as from outside.  And Frank Lockwood, you gotta have Frank Lockwood.
And don’t forget to pray- a lot.
From a purely tactical standpoint, it might be better if Nieman were elected- as consenting could be embarrassing for the bishops and standing committees as more information came out, and he might be “defeatable.” However, if there is an actual orthodox candidate in the bunch, the best option is to get him nominated and then hope to squeeze him through the progressive domination in TEC, and then you have one more real bishop in the denomination.

[57] Posted by tjmcmahon on 03-07-2010 at 10:02 AM • top

TJM - God bless you!  And what a great response to my sarcasm.

And God bless every one of us “malcontents” who stands firm for God.  Even in a “conservative” diocese sometimes it’s hard to speak out much less be heard.  But it takes every person to do just that instead of sitting on our hands in the pew.  The opposition is expecting us to stay in our comfort zones.

As Sarah pointed it out this week - there are a lot more people who haven’t registered but read StandFirm, as well as those who have.  Everyone of us/you need to be active - you will find there are others in the pew who are.  And there are others who are frustrated but don’t have an idea as to what to do.  Yes, there are some who just want to sit in the pew with their heads in the sand who resist you.  You try and move on.  It may be uncomfortable for you - maybe even outright rejection.  But if you are doing what the Lord tells you to do - you have done the right thing - even if you don’t wear a clerical collar.

Why do we fear to speak out?  Fear of rejection.  It was taught.  Don’t talk about religion - that’s rude.  Don’t talk about what’s going on - that’s just going to cause strife.  Yet, if we had all talked about it we wouldn’t be where we are now.  The only way to correct a wrong course is to help steer the boat.  It may still hit the rocks, but it feels a whole lot better knowing you’ve done all you can than having just sat there on your hands.  All I have to do is ask my mom who sat on hers.

By the way, the fact that anyone gets to StandFirm is that they have been called to do and not to sit - in my humble opinion.

</soapbox>

[58] Posted by The Lakeland Two on 03-07-2010 at 10:31 AM • top

One more thought.  monica wrote about Anglican fatigue on another thread - of waiting and waiting for action that never came/comes.  That resonated for us.  We may not be able to get our Church steered away from the rocks, but we all need to be working anyway for our youth because they are the seeds of tomorrow.  They may not be able to worship in the buildings we did, or even in a formal building at all.  But if we instill the Faith in our youth, it will grow and God will bless it.  Be active in your church however you can.  Spread the Faith you received.  It sounds simple, but sometimes we’re intimidated to do even that.

[59] Posted by The Lakeland Two on 03-07-2010 at 10:41 AM • top

If this clown is elected bishop this is only a taste of what will be to come.

IMHO, $42,550 is not nearly enough!

[60] Posted by priestwalter on 03-08-2010 at 08:55 AM • top

I can assure you that not many people knew of Nieman’s conduct that led to the lawsuit, but they are learning of it now.

[61] Posted by exspice on 03-26-2010 at 01:45 PM • top

All,
An orthodox candidate has been nominated for Bishop of The Rio Grande. Read about it at: Leander Harding’s Blog .

[62] Posted by SC blu cat lady on 03-26-2010 at 02:02 PM • top

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