March 22, 2017

April 9, 2010


Breaking: A Letter from Archbishop Orombi to “Archbishop Rowan and all Primates and Moderators”

I woke up this morning at 3:45am and found the letter (in full below) attached to an email in my inbox. My copy was sent as a forward. The original email seems to have been from Archbishop Orombi himself to the ABC and all the Primates and copied to Kenneth Kearon. Below you will find both the original email to ++Williams and the primates (not the forward) and the attachment:

Abp Orombi letter to Abp Rowan, April 2010.pdf (109KB)
From: Archbishop COU
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 10:26 AM
To: ‘Archbishop Rowan Williams’
Cc: ‘Kenneth Kearon’
Subject: Letter to Archbishop Rowan and all Primates and Moderators

Your Grace,

Please receive the attached letter from me.

Yours, in Christ,
+Henry

The Most Rev. Henry Luke Orombi
ARCHBISHOP OF CHURCH OF UGANDA
P.O. Box 14123
Kampala
UGANDA

Here is the attached letter:

The Most Rev. Rowan Williams
Archbishop of Canterbury
Lambeth Palace
London

Your Grace,

Easter greetings in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ!

In February I read with great interest Bishop Mouneer Anis’ letter of resignation from the Joint Standing Committee. I am grateful for his clarity and honesty. He has verbalized very well what many of us have thought and felt, and inspired me to write, as well.

As you know from our private conversations, I have absented myself for principled reasons from all meetings of the Joint Standing Committee since our Primates meeting in Dar es Salaam in 2007.

The first meeting of the Joint Standing Committee was later that year in New Orleans. At our Primates meeting in February 2007, we made certain requests of the Episcopal Church. In our Dar es Salaam communiqué we did not envision interference in the American House of Bishops while they were considering our requests. For me to participate in a meeting in New Orleans before the 30th September deadline would have violated our hard-won agreement in Dar es Salaam and would have been another case of undermining our instruments of communion. My desire to uphold our Dar es Salaam communiqué was intended to strengthen our instruments of communion so we would be able to mature into an even more effective global communion of the Church of Jesus Christ than in the past.

Subsequent meetings of the Joint Standing Committee have included the Primate of the Episcopal Church (TEC) and other members of TEC, who are the very ones who have pushed the Anglican Communion into this sustained crisis. How can we expect the gross violators of Biblical Truth to sanction their own discipline when they believe they have done nothing wrong and further insist that their revisionist theology is actually the substance of Anglicanism?

We have only to note the recent election and confirmation of an active Lesbian as a Suffragan Bishop in the Diocese of Los Angeles to realize that TEC has no interest in “gracious restraint,” let alone a moratorium on the things that have brought us to this point of collapse. It is now impossible to regard their earlier words of “regret” as a serious gesture of reconciliation with the rest of the Communion.

Together with Bishop Mouneer, I am equally concerned, as you know, about the shift in the balance of powers among the Instruments of Communion. It was the Primates in 2003 who requested the Lambeth Commission on Communion that ultimately produced the Windsor Report. It was the Primates who received the Windsor Report at our meeting in Dromantine in 2005. It was the Primates, through our Dromantine Communique, who presented the appropriate “hermeneutic” through which to read the Windsor Report. That “hermeneutic,” however, has been obscured by the leadership at St. Andrew’s House who somehow created something we never envisioned called the “Windsor Process.”

The Windsor Report was not a “process.” It was a Report, commissioned by the Primates and received by the Primates. The Primates made specific and clear requests of TEC and the Anglican Church of Canada. When TEC, particularly, did not clearly answer our questions, we gave them more time in 2007 to clarify their position.

Suddenly, though, after the 2007 Primates Meeting in Dar es Salaam, the Primates no longer had a role to play in the very process they had begun. The process was mysteriously transferred to the Anglican Consultative Council and, more particularly, to the Joint Standing Committee. The Joint Standing Committee has now evolved into the “Standing Committee.” Some suggest that it is the Standing Committee “of the Anglican Communion.”

There is, however, no “Standing Committee of the Anglican Communion” The Standing Committee has never been approved in its present form by the Primates Meeting or the Lambeth Conference. Rather, it was adopted by itself, with your approval and the approval of the ACC. The fact that five Primates are included in no way represents our Anglican understanding of the role of Primates as metropolitan bishops of their provinces.

Anglicanism is a church of Bishops and, at its best, is conciliar in its governance. The grave crisis before us as a Communion is both a matter of faith as well as order. Matters of faith and order are the domain of Bishops. In a Communion the size of the Anglican Communion, it is unwieldy to think of gathering all the Bishops of the Communion together more frequently than the current pattern of every ten years. That is why the Lambeth Conference in 1998 resolved that the Primates Meeting should be able to “exercise an enhanced responsibility in offering guidance on doctrinal, moral and pastoral matters.” (Resolution III.6).

What has emerged, however, is the Standing Committee being given “enhanced responsibility” and the Primates being given “diminished responsibility,” even in regard to a process begun by them. Indeed, this Standing Committee has granted itself supreme authority over Covenant discipline in the latest draft. Under these circumstances, it has not been possible for me to participate in meetings of the Joint Standing Committee that has taken upon itself authority it has not been given.

Accordingly, I stand with my brother Primate, Bishop Mouneer Anis, in his courageous decision to resign from the Standing Committee. Many of us are in a state of resignation as we see how the Communion is moving away further and further into darkness, especially since the Primates’ meeting in Dar es Salaam.

Your Grace, I have urged you in the past, and I will urge you again. There is an urgent need for a meeting of the Primates to continue sorting out the crisis that is before us, especially given the upcoming consecration of a Lesbian as Bishop in America. The Primates Meeting is the only Instrument that has been given authority to act, and it can act if you will call us together.

The agenda for that meeting should be set by the Primates themselves at the meeting, and not by any other staff in advance of the meeting. I reiterate this point because you will recall our cordial December 2008 meeting with you, Chris Smith, and the other GAFCON Primates in Canterbury where we discussed the agenda for the Primates meeting to take place in Alexandria the following month. None of our submissions were included in the agenda. Likewise, at the beginning of the January 2009 Primates meeting I was asked to present a position paper on the effect of the crisis in the Communion from our perspective, but I was not informed in advance, so I did not come prepared. Yet, other presenters, including TEC and Canada, were given prior information and came very prepared. I have never received a formal written apology about that incident, and it has caused me to wonder if there are two standards at work in how a Primate is treated.

Finally, the meeting should not include the Primates of TEC and the Anglican Church of Canada who are proceeding with unbiblical practices that contradict the faith of Anglicanism. We cannot carry on with business as usual until order is brought out of this chaos.

Yours, in Christ,
The Most Rev. Henry Luke Orombi
ARCHBISHOP OF CHURCH OF UGANDA.
xc: Primates, Moderators, and Members of the Standing Committee of the ACC

and a fine letter it is…


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128 comments

for the records, the 5 Primates of the Primates’ Standing Committee are Anis, Orombi, Aspinall, Morgan, Schori.

This now means both Global South and orthodox Primates have resigned.

Aspinall, Morgan and Schori are prime examples of the Western liberalism/revisionism.

[1] Posted by David Ould on 4-9-2010 at 04:26 AM · [top]

Praise God for this godly and gracious Archbishop.  He has clearly been on the receiving end of and witnessed considerable underhand manipulation yet he has responded in such a Christian way.
Please Lord, would you cause Rowan to listen truly and take wise counsel.

[2] Posted by naab00 on 4-9-2010 at 05:51 AM · [top]

W O W!!!  More comment later as I have a chance to absorb the impact of this brilliant misssive.

[3] Posted by Athanasius Returns on 4-9-2010 at 05:59 AM · [top]

A wonderfully clear letter in contrast to purposefully obfuscatory ramblings of Rowan.

I was struck by the revelation that all of the suggestions by GAFCon primates for the agenda of the Alexandria primates meeting were rejected.

The letter gives even more importance to the upcoming Global South meeting coming up on the 19th. I might ask that SF readers join Jill Woodliff in praying for the GS leaders on a daily basis up to and during that meeting.

[4] Posted by robroy on 4-9-2010 at 06:00 AM · [top]

What an awsome letter!  Thank you ++Orombi for your faithful witness and fearless stand for His truth!

[5] Posted by Henry on 4-9-2010 at 06:18 AM · [top]

Bravo!

Who will be the next bishop-primate to man up and speak out? The time for choosing sides has passed. These good folk need to attend (en masse) the faux ordination-consecration of Ms. Glasspool and object loudly. Maybe even the Bishop of Rome ought to come. grin

[6] Posted by Ralph on 4-9-2010 at 06:36 AM · [top]

Unfortunately, I expect he will get NO SUPPORT from the ABC. Coming back from Europe, I read in the London paper about a woman nurse who had wore a crucifix for 38 YEARS, who was told by her bosses to remove it or be dismissed, even though muslim doctors were allowed to keep symbols of their faith. She has been harrassed without respite or mercy, and is close to a mental break down, all in the defense of her faith. In desperation, she asked the ABC (she is an Anglican) and other clergy to help her. The ABC REFUSED. In fact, he PUBLICALLY CHASTISED the former ABC and the other bishops that answered her plea. And this is the man who is supposedly DEFENDING THE FAITH?!?!?!?

Yeah, right…

Live free or die…

[7] Posted by Amazed&Graced; on 4-9-2010 at 06:39 AM · [top]

A well written letter that summarizes the situation at hand.  It breaks my heart that the defenders of the faith are the ones who continue to resign. Why does everyone else have to “play by the rules” except the revisionists?
Pray for these faithful bishops and continue to pray that God will break the hardened hearts of the Primates of TEC and the Anglican Church of Canada.

[8] Posted by iambutone on 4-9-2010 at 06:45 AM · [top]

The power of this letter is all the more because of its graciousness.

[9] Posted by AnglicanXn on 4-9-2010 at 06:54 AM · [top]

Ralph,
That would be a sight.
I smile to think of it.

The Pope has been Baptised,
And was peer reviewed by election to the office.
If he wore the Tiara, he’d have the oven mitt beat..

A trifecta!

[10] Posted by Bo on 4-9-2010 at 07:06 AM · [top]

C-L-A-R-I-T-Y

Daniel

[11] Posted by Fisherman on 4-9-2010 at 07:26 AM · [top]

Yes, the Windsor Report was supplanted by the Windsor Process and since then it has been down hill ever since.

The Primates are being taken out of because they cannot be so easily manipulated by the ABC and the ACC.  Finally, a Primate has put the unbiased truth on the table.  The elephant is out of the living room in a way that is public for all to see.

The AC will either fall and realign.  If one studies Church History, we see that when the Church departs from God’s path He will make a dramatic correction and I see this happening in Anglicanism today.

For myself, Anglicanism is unique and is not to be lost.  However, its greatest strength to live into the tension and disagree on non-essentials has now becomes it greatest weakness as the essential foundations of the Faith and Doctrine have been question, attacked, and transformed into some new synthesis that is not the Christian Faith at all.

My our Lord bless this godly man and his faithfulness.

And I say in closing, “Thanks be to God.”

[12] Posted by Creighton+ on 4-9-2010 at 07:35 AM · [top]

Many of us are in a state of resignation as we see how the Communion is moving away further and further into darkness, especially since the Primates’ meeting in Dar es Salaam.

This comment should disturb the ABC greatly, especially since it is on his watch. The ABC’s continually nuanced responses and non responses suggest that he fails to appreciate what feedback he has received by “equals” within the communion and others in the church catholic. This letter indicates what we have all suspected that the ABC has orchestrated events behind the scenes to give an unbalanced voice to revisionists and thwart due process. Crystal clarity is now evident in TEC and dawning in the WWAC.

[13] Posted by Fr. Dale on 4-9-2010 at 07:47 AM · [top]

Orombi has expressed in detail and with clarity the deliberate mendaciousness of Abp. Williams.  Abp. Williams is now fully exposed, the JSC is exposed, and the faux Standing Committee of the Anglican Communion is exposed.

I expect very obfuscatory language from Lambeth in response to Abp. Orombi’s letter.  ...if there is a response.

This poem is a fitting allegory for what’s been going on.

[14] Posted by Athanasius Returns on 4-9-2010 at 07:49 AM · [top]

He gives the lesbian too much acknowledgment by capitalizing it “Lesbian”.

[15] Posted by midwestnorwegian on 4-9-2010 at 07:49 AM · [top]

But, I am grateful to this great Christian man for taking his stand.

[16] Posted by midwestnorwegian on 4-9-2010 at 07:51 AM · [top]

Thanks be to God !  Clear and concise and to the point !  Such a remarkable contrast to the obfuscatory ” emissions ” from the majority of TEC.  Bravo !

[17] Posted by AuroraBee on 4-9-2010 at 07:54 AM · [top]

What if the Archdruid of Canterbury gave a party and no one showed up?

What if ++Orombi, ++Anis, etc. gave a party and everyone who was not ashamed of the Gospel showed up?

What if everyone who thinks Glasspool+‘s consecration (let alone her ordination) is a farce and should be declared null and void showed up and said so en masse?

What a wonderful world this would be…! wink

[18] Posted by Milton on 4-9-2010 at 07:56 AM · [top]

Make no mistake about it, there are two standards at work.  We’ve all seen it played out through the years.  Previous threads have shown that the +ABC/Rowan did an runaround on the Windsor Report as well as the Windsor Continuation Group.  I would be willing to bet that all the legal chicanery that’s been done with the “Standing Committee”, etc., was to have it in place to eliminate any power of the primates, so when an event such as Glasspool finally arrived it will not be contested - or at least effectively.  Wouldn’t surprise me if there was a written plan that this is following.

Thank God for principled and Godly men like +Orombi and +Anis.  Do the primates have to wait for Canterbury to call for them to meet or can they meet without? 

If Anglicanism is going to survive, it’s going to have to do it without the likes of +Rowan.  Time to move on and forward.  Let the dead take care of the dead.

[19] Posted by The Lakeland Two on 4-9-2010 at 08:04 AM · [top]

Wow.  What a powerful letter that CLEARLY states the current state of the Anglican Communions. 

IF the ABC allows this path to continue there will be a split - those with TEC, and those who are not with TEC, plain and simple.

Very sad.

[20] Posted by B. Hunter on 4-9-2010 at 08:05 AM · [top]

Exactly, Archbishop!  Exactly!  Praise God!

[21] Posted by Katherine on 4-9-2010 at 08:11 AM · [top]

Oh, to be a fly on the wall in Singapore.

[22] Posted by The Lakeland Two on 4-9-2010 at 08:12 AM · [top]

I wonder if this serves as a confirmation of that someone in Lambeth or 815 leaked to their orthodox friends that, as had been rumoured, the ABC had already confirmed to Schori (through the usual back channels, apparently) that he did not intend for Glasspool’s consecration to have any effect on TEC’s role in the ACC, ACO, SC or anywhere else in the mis-named communion, save for a little handwringing for public consumption.  That seems to have lead to Schori’s feeling strong enough to write her letter, but has also now lead to Orombi’s letter. 

The global south meeting should be interesting.

[23] Posted by pendennis88 on 4-9-2010 at 08:29 AM · [top]

WOW!

I’ll bet that this letter is merely the visible portion of a carefully thought out, choreographed series of events that will occur at the meeting next week and thereafter. In effect, this letter gives an ultimatum to our esteemed ABC: convene a Primates meeting now, with no monkey business about the agenda, and without Schori, et. al.  The unstated implication is: if Rowan won’t comply, the Global South Primates have already decided what they will do. Whatever those actions might be, they will simply ignore Rowan.

Rowan is thus in a difficult position. If he does not comply with Orombi’s demand, part of the Communion will move without him. The Communion will fracture further, and his office will sustain additional damage. If he does comply, he will incur the wrath of TEC, the Canadians, and of his own revisionists in the C of E. 

I suspect Rowan will react tactically, to retain his position, while attempting to prevent anything substantive from happening. If substantive steps against TEC look inevitable, Rowan will also want to stay involved in order to retain the ability to sabotage those steps.

[24] Posted by Publius on 4-9-2010 at 09:01 AM · [top]

The year following DES (Feb 19, 2007), the Dar es Salaam communiqué was never again mentioned by the ABC or the ACC as a position of the mind of the mind of the Primates or the Anglican Communion. Many of us asked why. It’s now 37 months later. Why beat a dead horse NOW?

[25] Posted by Festivus on 4-9-2010 at 09:05 AM · [top]

At last!!! Someone has finally provided THE narrative behind the windsor process and how the primates were neutered. What’s been muttered in private amongst the GS primates has finally been stated in public. Orombi has also drawn a clear line for the moderate conservatives in the GS who’ve given their support to the ABC. The orthodox moderates are very influential but they are inscrutable and difficult to read at this stage.

This should also bury the nonsense about an ecclesial deficit in the Anglican Communion. The ecclesial deficit argument feeds the ABC’s strategy of intentionally protecting TEC. The ecclesial deficit argument is an interesting theological concept which has been hijacked to present a false narrative. The primates filled the “deficit” when the crisis broke and a discplinary process was in sight. The ABC stuck his oar in and intentionally skewered the process. This is the narrative behind what actually took place. The idea of giving more power to future ABCs conditioned by the constant need to take bearings from the gay lobby should send a shiver down our collective spine. This problem has revealed clearly that ABCs are creatures beholden to their cultural context.

[26] Posted by AhKong2 on 4-9-2010 at 09:09 AM · [top]

Glad to see ++Orombi politely call out Rowan for the way he and his allies have used the so-called stand committee to subvert the authority of the Primates.

[27] Posted by Newbie Anglican on 4-9-2010 at 09:13 AM · [top]

#26 - to those really following the happenings, we know what transpired. Many, many conversations on SF bear witness. When you’re yoked with someone who sabotages every thing you do, you have two choices: unyoke yourself or die. I chose the former; it was why I left the Anglican Church.

[28] Posted by Festivus on 4-9-2010 at 09:14 AM · [top]

When is the ABC going to resign already???  Things were relatively quiet before Glasspool.  That was the time he should have retired, then there would be fewer “resigning in the face of disaster” types of stories.  He needs to go on and assume his rightful place as amongst the worst ABCs in history.

[29] Posted by Nasty, Brutish & Short on 4-9-2010 at 09:15 AM · [top]

++Rowan Williams can not possibly respond to this letter in a positive manner.  To do so would undermine his sly, underhanded control of things in favor of TEC and the C of C.  All the more reason we will shortly have two Anglican Communions.

[30] Posted by David+ on 4-9-2010 at 09:25 AM · [top]

BTW - there are two dynamics that are at work in the late response by Orombi++. First, Orombi++, while an imposing figure, is very gentle in spirit. Second, the culture of Africa does not always lend itself western ideals about timeliness. The contrast between Africa and the west moving forward at great speed to impose its ideals has contributed to the depth of the crisis. If the Anglican Communion is to be salvaged (and I’m not sure it can as an orthodox entity), the Southern hemisphere bishops have to act with urgency by doing something like drafting an Anglican “95 Theses” with specificity of charges against church, dates required for resolution, and actions to be taken if not met - then stick to it. I know this seems very opposed to operating “in unity”, but the unity isn’t real.

[31] Posted by Festivus on 4-9-2010 at 09:28 AM · [top]

The gauntlets have been thrown down, by both “sides”.  Oodles of clarity this week. 

When is the Global South-to-South Encounter?  And who’s going to be there to cover it?

[32] Posted by Connie Sandlin on 4-9-2010 at 09:33 AM · [top]

I knew we could count on Henry Luke.

[33] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 4-9-2010 at 09:40 AM · [top]

robroy writes: “A wonderfully clear letter in contrast to purposefully obfuscatory ramblings of Rowan.”

Exactly - which is why this letter will be summarily ignored by said Rowan.

[34] Posted by GSP98 on 4-9-2010 at 09:47 AM · [top]

#28- Dear Festivus,

There are some well intentioned folk amongst the GS who either dont want to see what’s going on or who cant envisage the communion not being led by ABC and the neo - liberal cabal who’ve learned to use the language of orthodox christianity.

[35] Posted by AhKong2 on 4-9-2010 at 09:50 AM · [top]

4th Global South Encounter
19th – 23rd April 2010, Singapore

Theme: “The Gospel of Jesus Christ—Covenant for the People; Light for the Nations.”

[36] Posted by Floridian on 4-9-2010 at 09:51 AM · [top]

“And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
May your brave words by the Spirit of Christ help us be free, our faithful father in Christ. May you continue to speak the truth in love, and, unlike our Druid in Chief, act upon that truth as you have herewith done with such grace and élan.

[37] Posted by Fr.Theoden on 4-9-2010 at 09:54 AM · [top]

Praise be to our God for the faithful witness of ++Orombi.  He is a blessed example for those who would truly “stand firm in faith”.  My prayer is that Cantuar would pay great heed to this beautifully clear and faithful letter.

[38] Posted by Deacon Francie on 4-9-2010 at 09:55 AM · [top]

Rowan’s approach of “kicking the can down the road” and using political manoeuver to both marginalize the Primates and divert Lambeth could never amount to more than a mid-term delaying tactic.

The actions of TE"c” have now created a situation the GS cannot ignore nor defer. Further similar attempts of the ABC to buy time have little likelihood of success, as to date they contained neither plan nor hope for a resolution. Delaying tactics will likely produce not only a swift action toward separation from Canterbury by the GS, but will likely also accelerate division in the COE. (But perhaps that has been Rowan’s intention all along, after all, many tout his intellect and foresightful analytical prowess.)

[39] Posted by R. Scott Purdy on 4-9-2010 at 09:56 AM · [top]

Praise the Lord for Archbishop Orombi! How wonderful to hear him speak out with such courasge and clarity. It’s time to stop being conciliatory and start standing on principle, and this man and those like him are setting us an example of what true defenders of the faith should be doing now. I don’t see how anyone can believe that any kind of agreement can be reached with the liberals. They fully intend to follow their own agenda and have consistently been telling the orthodox to take a hike. They have no intention of backing down on gay marriage, gay ordinations, or anything else. Anyone who believes otherwise must have been living under a rock or in a cave for the past decades.

[40] Posted by Nellie on 4-9-2010 at 10:03 AM · [top]

Regarding Rowan, this whole sad affair again points out the necessity of watching what someone does, not what he or she says.

[41] Posted by Daniel on 4-9-2010 at 10:05 AM · [top]

“The process was mysteriously transferred to the Anglican Consultative Council and, more particularly, to the Joint Standing Committee…”

Must have been the Canterbury ghost, or something like that. 

“I was asked to present a position paper on the effect of the crisis in the Communion from our perspective, but I was not informed in advance, so I did not come prepared. Yet, other presenters, including TEC and Canada, were given prior information and came very prepared”.

Your Grace(Archbishop Orombi), I am simply an American Anglican, a small fish in a big pond, and of course I had nothing to do with the “paper” shenanigans above.  BUT I WILL BE HAPPY to offer you an apology for that sort of conduct, because I consider it reprehensible and do not condone it.

It is also the height of unChristian scum to have silenced a voice which would have described how American(Episcopal) actions have seriously complicated Christian-Muslim relations in the Global South.  Does Williams believe the American position(Episcopal) is helping the Nigerian Christians in Jos?  It sure as hell didn’t look like it the other day, when Christian babies were being murdered in their beds. 

It’s bad enough that RW has sold out to the revisionist agenda, but I don’t know where he gets off grossly violating Anglican polity in order to advance it.  On that score, the primates should now be calling for his resignation.  Williams and others seem to believe that appearing “papal” is a no-no but this man makes every effort to subvert his councils meeting. He’s working mainly behind the scenes, but he’s still working unilaterally(with the possible exception of a secretarial henchman). 

For all that Pope Benedict is of course the ultimate “papal” I haven’t noticed him lately violating his own polity.  But then again, there’s probably nothing wrong with acting “papal” as long as you do it with integrity.  Is it that “integrity” part that sticks in Williams’s throat? 

Abysmal, serpentine conduct. And thanks to Archbishops Orombi and Anis for shedding light on it.  The Global South has my prayers, as does Williams, because it doesn’t seem like anything else will help him. 

All of this, possibly for only MONEY? Think about getting your money somewhere else. 

And if you have to obfuscate and scheme to advance an agenda, then it looks to me like that agenda is WRONG.  Right is Right and Truth is Truth and both of those always stand and advance on their own.  The Triune God is NOT present in ANY lying manipulations; that instead is the FATHER OF LIES—

CHOOSE THIS DAY WHOM YOU WILL SERVE…

[42] Posted by Anti-Harridan on 4-9-2010 at 10:08 AM · [top]

Please see my update at the top of the post.

[43] Posted by Greg Griffith on 4-9-2010 at 10:08 AM · [top]

It’s about time that someone “official” remarked how the various “committees” stretch their authority by simply saying so!  People BELIEVE the leaders of “Christian” committees when they SAY they are something.  Unfortunately, in the Anglican Church, we have too many people who are not believable in what they say.  Three cheers for Archbishop Orombi speaking out!!!  It’s time to stop making “nice” with these people.  Why is it I have HUGE respect for almost all the Global South leaders, but NONE WHATEVER for the American and European leaders, including the ABC?  What a revolting development!

[44] Posted by Goughdonna on 4-9-2010 at 10:09 AM · [top]

UK leadership has hit bottom in palace, church and parliament:

“UK: Prince Charles and Gordon Brown funnelled nearly $850,000 to Hamas and other jihad groups”

From Transfigurations

[45] Posted by Floridian on 4-9-2010 at 10:13 AM · [top]

A very clear statement from Archbishop Orombi—no mincing words, tells it like it is. However, Archbishop Orombi does assume incorrectly that all Primates are metropolitan bishops.In fact that is not the case. TEC Presiding Bishop Katherine Jefferts Schori is the Primate of TEC but the TEC constitution and canons do not give her superintendency over all ecclesiastical matters in TEC and metropolitical jurisdiction throughout TEC, as custom, ecclesiastical law, and canon give the Archbishops of Canterbury and York in their respective provinces. See the ACI’s Statement on South Carolina: http://www.anglicancommunioninstitute.com/2010/04/statement-on-south-carolina/. Something for which conservative Episcopalians should be exceedingly thankful. Archbishop Phillip Aspinall, the Primate of the Anglican Church of Australia, is the Archbishop of Brisbane and the metropolitan of ecclesiastical or internal province of the Anglican Church of Australia of which the diocese of Brisbane is a part but he is not metropolitan of the Anglican Church of Australia. Presidng Bishop Gregory Venables is Presiding Bishop of Southern Cone and Bishop of Argentina. He is not the Metropolitan of the Anglican Church of the Province of Southern Cone of America. In that province the Provincial Executive Council has metropolitan responsibility. Presiding Bishop Venable is the president of that Council.

[46] Posted by AnglicansAblaze on 4-9-2010 at 10:16 AM · [top]

I think Archbishop Orombi has made it crystal clear to Canterbury that if TEC and the ACofC are included in the next Primates’ Meeting, it will be “all over,” “game, set and match” for the Anglican Communion as it now exists, and a new order will take its place.  Thanks be to God for his clear and unambiguous statement!  Now the ball is in ++Rowan’s court.

[47] Posted by Cennydd on 4-9-2010 at 10:20 AM · [top]

The can to be kicked has only grown a bit smaller. GS needs to rock the world and very very soon (on or before May 15th)and move on from this secular cancer. The time has arrived.

Intercessor

[48] Posted by Intercessor on 4-9-2010 at 10:23 AM · [top]

subscribe

[49] Posted by Theophilus on 4-9-2010 at 10:25 AM · [top]

I hope you’re right, Cennydd. I thought the Archbishop’s letter seemed to be saying that, too. We shall see. I’m hoping to hear more after the GS meeting this month. Our side had been patient long enough. Meanwhile things are going from bad to worse int he Communion.

[50] Posted by Nellie on 4-9-2010 at 10:26 AM · [top]

AA, Mrs Schori thinks and acts as if she is the metropolitan….which she most definitely is NOT!  She needs a very strongly-worded REMINDER, but she’ll never get it from TEC.

[51] Posted by Cennydd on 4-9-2010 at 10:27 AM · [top]

What will it take for our wonderful and orthodox Anglican leadership to learn!  How much more must they and we all endure from the revisionist before we will admit that the Anglican Way of life as we have known it is finished?  No Covenant will hold back the horrible things we have seen happen from continuing.  Not even a very loose definition of Communion Partnership or living by some notion of “achieving the highest level of communion possible” will hold back the evil tide that is changing the face of the Anglican Way.  We can serve no longer in the ways we have known.  The liberal scheme prevalent in the Christian West has penetrated so deeply into the fabric of the Communion, by way of its seminaries, pulpits, newsletters, blogs and more, our way of life as a true Catholic body is over.  The tide is pushing us out and it is bringing in a self-styled liberalism and varieties of self-styled protestantism that our Anglican fore-bearers never knew.  It’s over.  The only way forward that will allow us to live the dignity of the Anglican Way and exercise its patrimony and pastoral life and sacraments is in union with Rome.  How strange it is to finally realize that only under the Pope can we truly be Anglican.  God is healing His Church!

[52] Posted by Te Deum on 4-9-2010 at 10:32 AM · [top]

Oh my!!

An honest soul, speaking truth, plainly, so that even the ABC and Katie can understand.

PAX

[53] Posted by r3ussell on 4-9-2010 at 10:33 AM · [top]

Rowan is too busy promoting Phillip Pullman to bother with ++Orombi’s letter:
http://wannabeanglican.blogspot.com/2010/04/good-man-jesus-and-scoundrel-archbishop.html

One must have one’s priorities.

[54] Posted by Newbie Anglican on 4-9-2010 at 10:34 AM · [top]

Sorry, Te Deum….your sentiments are in the right place, but Rome has a few things to straighten out before they get converts from Anglicanism in any substantial numbers (at least from my perspective).  There has to be something better than what some call “second class Catholicism.”

[55] Posted by Cennydd on 4-9-2010 at 10:39 AM · [top]

Thank you Archbishop Orombi.

[56] Posted by Undergroundpewster on 4-9-2010 at 10:42 AM · [top]

The Anglican Communion as it is now contrived cannot survive.  It is only a matter of time before the CofE is disestablished and thrown on the ash heap of history along with ECUSA.  “Mainstream”, liberal Protestantism is dying on the vine.  Roman Catholicism remains a vital, although weakened, House of God because of its deep cultural roots and traditions which Benedict XVI is striving to strengthen despite the damage done by Vatican II.

The situation with the Anglican Communion is tragic to the point of absurdity.  Mrs. Shori wants desperately to be a prophet for the new age and consequently believes that she should be the voice for the whole Communion.  She does not want to break away because that would require her to work at building something from the ground up.  Her track record seems to indicate that she is incapable of building anything, therefore, she must appropriate it and make it over in her image.  The ABC basically agrees with Mrs. Shori; and, I believe, is afraid of her (or more to the point the withdrawal of her financial support) so he will not do anything in response to ++Orombi or any of the other orthodox Primates.

I believe it was King Henry II who opined, “Who shall rid me of this meddlesome priest?!”  Perhaps it is time for Her Royal Highness to ask the same question.

[57] Posted by Sacerdotal451 on 4-9-2010 at 10:42 AM · [top]

Te Deum

You may not be aware of our comment policy, but your comment above is way off topic. There will be no more comments on this thread urging departure to Rome, Constantinople, Geneva or anywhere else…this is your warning.

Thank you.

[58] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 4-9-2010 at 10:45 AM · [top]

I wonder if this presages a North-South (revisionist-orthodox) split that will result in 2 separate and unassociated Anglican communions.

[59] Posted by Edwin on 4-9-2010 at 10:55 AM · [top]

Te Deum #52
Rome is no sanctuary for Anglicans, especially if you are a Protestant Anglican, a conservative evangelical like myself. Rome really does not offer sanctuary for Catholic Anglicans either. Do you think that Rome will allow them to go on being Anglican once they become ROMAN Catholics? No! Rome will expect them to be that—ROMAN Catholics, not Anglican Catholics, Anglo-Catholics, or Catholic Anglicans. To seek sanctuary in the Roman Catholic Church is to surrender one’s Anglican heritage. I think that those who accept the Pope’s offer must do so with their eyes open. The first generation that accepts his offer may be Anglican to some degree due to their Anglican background but the second, third, and fourth generations will not be. They will be ROMAN Catholics. I am not going to say any more on the subject since we are going off topic.

[60] Posted by AnglicansAblaze on 4-9-2010 at 10:58 AM · [top]

Matt,
I did not see the warning before I posted. Otherwise I would not have posted my response.

[61] Posted by AnglicansAblaze on 4-9-2010 at 11:00 AM · [top]

To quote Eclipse in 2008-”++OROMBI ROCKS”

That’s my Archbishop (2005-2009)! We had the wonderful experience of having him at Anglican Men’s Weekend 3 years in a row. The teachings (12+ hours) are still available at http://www.AnglicanTV.org

btw, We have a fly on the wall at Singapore and he has a video camera. Can’t wait to see Kevin’s interview of Archbishop Henry!

[62] Posted by Keith Bramlett on 4-9-2010 at 11:01 AM · [top]

“The Windsor Report was not a “process.” It was a Report, commissioned by the Primates and received by the Primates.”

This is accurate and fully in accord with generally accepted rules of order.  To assert otherwise is out of order.

“That is why the Lambeth Conference in 1998 resolved that the Primates Meeting should be able to “exercise an enhanced responsibility in offering guidance on doctrinal, moral and pastoral matters.” (Resolution III.6).”

This too is accurate. To do anything else is to operate outside generally accepted rules of order, as well as precedent within the affected bodies. 

To recap: westerners proposed a diminished role for the rules of order under the guise of benefitting non-westerners - instead, westerners practiced subversion and sought to disenfranchise the non-westerners.

This letter is spot on.

[63] Posted by tired on 4-9-2010 at 11:03 AM · [top]

subscribe

[64] Posted by JustOneVoice on 4-9-2010 at 11:09 AM · [top]

Jerusalem Anglicanism. I’m not the first to say this and I won’t be the last. Rowan has his mind about things and God has His mind about things. I find it ironic that all this time the answers were in front of us. Had Rowan intervened, it would have only delayed the inevitable.

[65] Posted by Fr. Dale on 4-9-2010 at 11:13 AM · [top]

Lord, have mercy.  ++Orombi is a courageous and godly bishop, a sad rarity in the Anglican world.  May God bless him and his ministry and strengthen him for strong and vital witness in the instruments of the Communion.

[66] Posted by Steve Lake+ on 4-9-2010 at 11:42 AM · [top]

God will have His way, and ++Orombi is His servant.  God bless him!

[67] Posted by Cennydd on 4-9-2010 at 11:44 AM · [top]

Excellent and stunning letter.  Wouldn’t it be interesting if every Primate wrote a letter and made it public.  If the ABC won’t call a Primates Meeting, that would seem to be a very polite way of necessitating one.  If the ABC will not allow the Primates to participate in the “councils of the church” I think they would be being obedient to their vows to write and make public their opinion at this time.  Also, I must confess, it would make for awesome reading. grin

[68] Posted by Ed McNeill on 4-9-2010 at 11:45 AM · [top]

Thinking on my earlier post…it is critical that the GS make Global decisive irrevocable action in the next six weeks so that the battering of Christ on May 15th will not paint the GS as complicted like Rowan is.

Intercessor

[69] Posted by Intercessor on 4-9-2010 at 11:46 AM · [top]

An excellent letter, clear and to the point. I have only two regrets: first, that the words applying to the PB weren’t delivered in person, at a meeting of the committee, while staring straight into her eyes. Second, that he has not made clearer what Allison Barfoot said was his intention not to resign. His words can be interpreted as a resignation, and may be accepted as such, as we have seen in some recent cases.

A formal split at the international level seems the likely next step. But I don’t think we’re down to three hundred yet.

[70] Posted by Philip Wainwright on 4-9-2010 at 11:52 AM · [top]

Just because the ABC does not call a Primates’ Meeting does not mean the primates can not meet.

[71] Posted by JustOneVoice on 4-9-2010 at 11:53 AM · [top]

#63 - To recap: westerners proposed a diminished role for the rules of order under the guise of benefiting non-westerners - instead, westerners practiced subversion and sought to disenfranchise the non-westerners.

Spot on! And remember the cartoon that floated around about the African “Anglican Primates” - that they were as dumb as pan troglodytes? Guess what - they were far more aware what was happening and how it was happening, even if they were too gracious it for what it is.

[72] Posted by Festivus on 4-9-2010 at 11:55 AM · [top]

from http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/106

The Primates Meeting, which the Archbishop of Canterbury convenes, brings together the senior archbishop or bishop (sometimes called “moderator”) of each Province for prayer and reflection on matters of shared concern.

Though the quote seems to limit the power of the Primates Meetings as I understand them, it does make clear that the Meetings are convened by the ABC. It may represent the powers of the Primates Meetings as the ABC would have us understand them.  If the primates meet without the imprimatur of the ABC than it is extra-communion.
Not to say that the Primates cannot meet without the ABC, but that meeting would constitute a new organizational principle.

[73] Posted by Creedal Episcopalian on 4-9-2010 at 12:15 PM · [top]

Not to say that the Primates cannot meet without the ABC, but that meeting would constitute a new organizational principle.

Exactly what I’m hoping for.

[74] Posted by JustOneVoice on 4-9-2010 at 12:19 PM · [top]

Strikes me that there some confusion about the distinctions of ‘rule by council’ (conciliar) and ‘rule by committee’ hence some of the issues raised in the letter.

[75] Posted by Iona Pilgrim on 4-9-2010 at 12:29 PM · [top]

Re #73:  I believe it may be inaccurate to say that if the Primates meet without having been convened by the ABC it would be “extra-communion.”  As I understand it, the Primates’ Meeting has no written constitution or equivalent.  The statement that the Archbishop of Canterbury convenes the meeting is true as a statement of historical practice and probably normal future expectation and there are multiple reasons why this would be best.  But if in exigent circumstances all or most of them were to meet with due notice having been given other than from the usual source, the meeting would be no less a meeting of the Primates of the Anglican Communion.

Of course logistics and costs of a meeting are always a factor, the significance of which might be lessened by providing for participation of some by teleconference.

[76] Posted by Mike Watson on 4-9-2010 at 12:45 PM · [top]

As usual, great letter, which once again cuts to the chase and helps remind everyone what has happened. One new piece of info: “None of our submissions were included in the agenda.” This should be considered by anyone who still believes that Canterbury will be an agent for positive resolution of this mess.

What the letter doesnt do is provide a clear path out, since everyone knows the ABC will not agree to exclude TEC from any Primates meeting.

[77] Posted by Going Home on 4-9-2010 at 12:45 PM · [top]

Praise God for Archbishop Orombi and the clear statement.  I see many of the themes which Rev Dr. Stephen Noll described in his wonderful and hopeful paper on the Anglican Communion Covenant from 25 Feb 2010 (51 pages long):  Noll

Noll refers to the necessary role of Bishops in upholding faith and order, the sidetracking of the Primates by the Anglican Consultative Council and the Joint Standing Committee. He also indicates the need for the Primates to reassert their authority.  Thanks be to God for the leadership of ++Orambi at this time.

[78] Posted by hereistand on 4-9-2010 at 12:48 PM · [top]

A very interesting letter and released at a very strategic time.  I wonder at who the “real” target of this letter is?  I think not Rowan Williams, but rather his brother Global South primatesOrombi makes a number of highly significant points in this letter:

1. He shows how RW has systematically manipulated the Communion processes to emasculate the primates whilst transferring great power to the western liberal dominated Standing Committee in violation of the intent of Lambeth Conferences and the primates themselves.  He covers Dr. Noll’s important points about how RW has sought to undermine the conciliar authority of Anglican bishops, and replace them with something else.  He makes the solid argument that it is the bishops where the buck must stop on matters of faith and discipline.
2. He demonstrates how this manipulation has led to a situation in which TEC has disproportionate membership and influence on this new Standing Committee which is charged with implementing the Covenant.
3. He repeatedly refers to instances in which western liberals have sidelined or been dismissive of the Global South primates - Anis’ resignation, RW giving inside information to western liberal primates, RW’s hand-picked western liberal handlers drawing up the meeting agendas for the primates while ignoring GS concerns.

So the basic message to his brother primates is this:
1. It is the proper role of primates to defend the apostolic faith and discipline of the Anglican Communion;
2. Rowan Williams has not only failed to do this, but has actively undermined this important job; and
3. Just in case any of you are inclined to think that Rowan just needs more time, take careful note how Rowan has repeatedly marginalized Global South leaders and given preferential treatment to western liberals.

I hope and pray that the other Global South leaders heed Orombi’s call.  The time to act is NOW.  TEC is very much wants to set the precedent that there will be no serious consequences from continuing full tilt on its sexuality agenda.  TEC’s leadership obviously believes that no consequences will come from Rowan Williams, and I think that they are correct in this assumption.  Therefore, that leaves the Global South primates.  The time is NOW - either they act decisively now (and I realize that it won’t be easy) or they give Rowan more time, in which case TEC will have successfully established its precedent and the Covenant will not be worth the paper it is printed on.

[79] Posted by jamesw on 4-9-2010 at 01:39 PM · [top]

A truly watershed letter.  I have no expectation that it will be given any credence by Rowan et al, but it is excellent documentation added to the already existing paper trail that historians, when doing their post mortem on the communion will review when writing about the split of the Anglican Communion.

[80] Posted by no longer NH Episcopalian on 4-9-2010 at 01:54 PM · [top]

Orombi for ABC.
RW needs to be fired.

[81] Posted by AnglicanRN on 4-9-2010 at 02:21 PM · [top]

In the paragraph that begins, “We have only to note the recent election”...  ++Orombi says, “...TEC has no interest in “gracious restraint,” let alone a moratorium on the things that have brought us to THIS POINT OF COLLAPSE.”  [my caps]

“this point of collapse” is strong language.  Does anyone else find this significant or am I reading too much into this?

[82] Posted by Moving Forward on 4-9-2010 at 02:33 PM · [top]

AWESOME communication… Listen.

[83] Posted by Tom Dennis on 4-9-2010 at 02:54 PM · [top]

No, Moving Forward, I don’t think you are.  Matters are coming to a head, and ++Williams is going to have to face the truth….the facts.  He can’t stop things from happening.

[84] Posted by Cennydd on 4-9-2010 at 02:59 PM · [top]

Oh yes, it’s highly significant, MF (#82), but so is the telling admission that many GS primates are feeling a depressing sense of resignation about the AC slipping into darkness.  However, this powerful letter doesn’t sound like he’s giving up the fight, just choosing his battles.

This is a stunning letter.  Not a word wasted.  The piling up of damning evidence against those who have sought to manipulate the GS primates and to undermine the role of the Primates’ Meeting is like a series of hammer blows.

I agree with the hunch of jamesw (#79) that the main target audience of this open letter is probably the block of non-FCA GS primates who need some encouragement to follow the examples of ++Orombi and ++Anis and drop out of participating in the farcical, rigged games of ++RW and the ACO.  But it should also be helpful to GS reps who participate in the ACC as well.

Bravo, ++Orombi!  What a champion of the faith.

David Handy+

[85] Posted by New Reformation Advocate on 4-9-2010 at 03:08 PM · [top]

I too hope that a majority of the Global South will act decisively.  But what constitutes “decisive action”? A series of strongly worded letters or public statements? A continuation of the disfunctional status quo, where some orthodox Provinces are members but can’t in good consience attend meetings, while TEC and others promote an radical agenda with quiet support from the Communion apparatus?

There is just no practical way to accomplish an official Primate’s meeting without the cooperation of the ABC, and it has proven virtually impossible to hijack the ABC’s agenda (or non-agenda) when such Primate meetings occur.  The ABC, TEC and their allies will not allow another DAR outcome. The covenant debate has, predictably, become another Windsor process, sucking up time, energy and resources better spent on other initiatives. 

In light of this, what “decisive action” can be taken by the Global South leaders, other than to take major action toward the establishment of a seperate entity to displace the Canterbury centered communion?  I wonder if the support is there among enough Global South churches.

[86] Posted by Going Home on 4-9-2010 at 03:09 PM · [top]

Now?? really? This should have happened thirty years ago- 1977. At least some realized what was going on. The rest of us ...well… don’t we look foolish for hanging in there for 30 years. This nonsense should have been dealt with then - don’t bother now. Too late to save the WWAC.  I agree with #80, This letter and others like it will be important to future historians studying why the WWAC fell apart and died back in the early 21st century.

[87] Posted by SC blu cat lady on 4-9-2010 at 03:10 PM · [top]

Also, it’s worth noting that ++Orombi took time out to write this incredible letter not only with the 4th South to South Encounter coming up later this month in Singapore, but with the Ugandan primate bearing a very heavy load of responsibility as the international chairman of the group organizing the upcoming Third Lausanne Congress on Global Evangelization.  That major mission conference takes places in October (16th-25th) in Capetown, South Africa, and among other things is timed to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the legendary international missions conference that took place at Edinburgh in 1910.

That ++Orombi was selected to be the chairman of that extremely important event speaks volumes about how widely admired and trusted the Ugandan primate is by evangelical leaders all around the world.  Alas, ironically, it seems that just as “a prophet is not without honor except in his hometown,” it appears that ++Henry Luke Orombi may be more appreciated and respected by non-Anglicans than by the official leaders of the AC.

David Handy+

[88] Posted by New Reformation Advocate on 4-9-2010 at 03:19 PM · [top]

I sort of wish ++Orombi had resigned.  It would have been easier for us to see puppetmaster Schori’s hand up Rowan’s tunic making his mouth move.

[89] Posted by Bill2 on 4-9-2010 at 03:28 PM · [top]

Bill2

Although he has not resigned, he has not participated either, and he told ABC why:

As you know from our private conversations, I have absented myself for principled reasons from all meetings of the Joint Standing Committee since our Primates meeting in Dar es Salaam in 2007.

This approach shows he does not approve of the JSC, while allowing him to return if he sees a benefit in doing so.

[90] Posted by JustOneVoice on 4-9-2010 at 03:33 PM · [top]

subscribe

[91] Posted by off2 on 4-9-2010 at 03:39 PM · [top]

Going Home:  There is most likely a number of possibilities but they all need to present Rowan Williams with a stark and time-defined choice - specifically that he needs to take ACTION to discipline TEC or the Global South primates will take ACTION without him.  Now obviously the questions are “what is action” and “what is discipline”?  What I would suggest would be as follows:

To begin with, I would suggest that the Global South primates issue a Communique which sets out two things: (1) its plan of action with regard to the Covenant; and (2) its expectations and future conditions for ANY future interaction with ANY Anglican “Instruments of Communion”.

First the Covenant.  The main planned topic of the South-to-South encounter will be the the Covenant.  I remain of the view that the Covenant is theoretically a good thing, but that as it currently stands is not acceptable (per Stephen Noll’s reasoning).  Therefore, I think that the first major step which the Global South should take is to revise the Covenant to take out the “Standing Committee” and write in the “Primates” as the primary interpreters and administrators of the Covenant, and then begin a tightly time-defined adoption process.  Give Rowan Williams the fait accompli that THIS IS the Covenant which will be adopted by the Global South Provinces and no other.  Take the initiative AWAY from Rowan Williams and put him in the place of having to react, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, keep the pressure on.  Be specific, make deadlines, retain control of the deadlines.

Second, continued interaction with the Instruments of Communion.  The Global South needs to make it crystal clear to Rowan Williams that they will no longer play his games.  They will no longer be his dupes.  The Global South should agree that there will be NO FURTHER PARTICIPATION BY ANY OF THEM IN ANY LAMBETH SPONSORED COMMISSION OR THE ACC OR THE PRIMATES MEETING OR LAMBETH if ANY TEC or ACoC members are also invited - with the sole exception of representatives of those dioceses which have committed to adhere to the GS supported Covenant (and note I mean representatives OF those dioceses, not representatives of TEC FROM those dioceses - there is a big difference).  It must be clear that TEC is no longer welcome to participate in the Instruments of UNITY if they chose to ignore Communion discernment.

The Global South should not threaten to leave the Anglican Communion, but it should create some sort of provisional GS primates’ committee to act on its resolutions and monitor the situation.

The above two points are what I would consider essential.  Optional would be a statement on the ACNA.  What I would recommend here, would likely be criticized as “not enough” by ACNA supporters, but it would be thus:  The Global South primates should announce that they are fully in communion with ACNA bishops and parishes; NOT recognize it as its own Province but call for the ACNA to come under the aegis of the Global South primates’ committee (described in the above paragraph) as an extra-provincial jurisdiction currently under the protection of the GS primates; and call for the ABC to formally request that the GS primates undertake this oversight task.  This would go far to regularizing the ACNA’s position in the Anglican Communion, while bringing the ACNA under an outside authority which could then better shape it into becoming a unified nascent province devoid of egos and turf wars.

That’s what I would call for.

[92] Posted by jamesw on 4-9-2010 at 03:42 PM · [top]

#79 and 92 are spot-on and jamesw is his usual articulate self. 

Tiny excerpt:

“I remain of the view that the Covenant is theoretically a good thing, but that as it currently stands is not acceptable (per Stephen Noll’s reasoning).” 

The only Covenant drafts acceptable are 1) those implementing Dr. Noll’s recommendations and/or the original Ridley Draft.  Anything that demonstrates illegal manipulations of Anglican polity, and/or puts the corrupt fox in charge of the henhouse, is anathema.

[93] Posted by Anti-Harridan on 4-9-2010 at 04:21 PM · [top]

I see this as becoming documentation of how the new organization for the communion of Anglicans was born.

[94] Posted by JustOneVoice on 4-9-2010 at 04:33 PM · [top]

92- all good ideas.

[95] Posted by Going Home on 4-9-2010 at 04:39 PM · [top]

I say AMEN to all of your suggestions, Jamesw, and a new Communion is, in fact, a-borning.

[96] Posted by Cennydd on 4-9-2010 at 04:47 PM · [top]

Goodbye troll : )

[97] Posted by Luke Brown on 4-9-2010 at 04:53 PM · [top]

79 and 92:  Excellent analysis and commentary.

TEC’s leadership obviously believes that no consequences will come from Rowan Williams, and I think that they are correct in this assumption.”

I agree with the above and will be very interested see how Rowan Williams will respond to this gauntlet, thrown hard right at his his feet.  I’ve always thought a thrown gauntlet -especially a steel gauntlet a la ‘Knights of the Round Table’- to be a far more difficult challenge to ignore (despite the saying:  “the pen is mightier….”) than words.  Gauntlets lay in the grass in full view of the world and ++Orombi’s letter is truly a steel gauntlet.

[98] Posted by Bill C on 4-9-2010 at 05:07 PM · [top]

Mr. Brown—good job with the slander and talking points. Your friends in SC are also participating in that campaign. Its obviously the latest campaign. http://www.scepiscopalians.com/Other_SC_News.html

Exactly what “large sums of money” are you speaking about.  Or were the specifics left out of your talking point paper?

At lot of people here know Arbishop Orombi, and know he lives simply. 

In regard to the legislation, you have no idea what influence Archbishop Orombi is exerting in regard to the Uganda legislation. My hope—expectation—is that he is using his influence to push back against criminal penalties.  Lets see how it plays out. I also recall that until recent history there were anti-sodomy laws on the books of many of our states which were not invalidated until a 2003 Lawrence v. Texas Supreme Court decision. These types of laws still exist in about 40% of nations.  But I can understand why you would want to focus solely on the Ugandan Parlament.

[99] Posted by Going Home on 4-9-2010 at 05:26 PM · [top]

Also, 97, Archbishop Orombi has been an outspoken critic of government corruption in Uganda, most recently in a publicized speech to the graduating class at Uganda Christian University (UCU).

[100] Posted by Going Home on 4-9-2010 at 05:32 PM · [top]

A very important letter given the GS meeting in a weeks time - I am still thinking about its implications. 

[btw I wouldn’t get drawn in by what looks like the usual dirty tricks campaign from the Presiding Bishop and her stooges - it should not be given airtime.  If it is taken up by Simon Sarmiento it will just confirm my suspicion that these are ‘talking points’ from the Nasty Church.  Call the Commenatrix]

[101] Posted by Pageantmaster ن on 4-9-2010 at 06:21 PM · [top]

And it just the latest evidence to confirm what a number of people in the UK have been saying - the Presiding Bishop is not a fit and proper person and should not be permitted to sit on any committee or body to do with the Communion.  +Orombi is correct on that.

[102] Posted by Pageantmaster ن on 4-9-2010 at 06:24 PM · [top]

The Anglican Church is more divided than ever. Only a remnant within the North American Anglican Church Body are genuine Christians. Most high church Anglicans are Roman Catholic and many low church Anglicans have been deceived into secularization and liberalization to the point that there is no genuine biblical faith left. The North American Anglican Church is like the Titanic ... large and sinking fast!

Maurice Harting
.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

[103] Posted by Maurice Harting on 4-9-2010 at 06:31 PM · [top]

Just a practical note to all Bishops and Archbishops who intend to attend the ceremonies concerning the lesbian in Los Angeles:

(1) As a group, arrange for at least two California lawyers ahead of time, because there is always a chance the Bishop of Los Angeles will arrange for protesters to be arrested, whether inside or outside the Cathedral.  You will need at leasat one lawyer to stand in front of you and argue with the police, and another nearby, to get you bailed out of jail.  If you decide to split up into smaller groups to conduct your protest, you will need one lawyer for each little protest group.  The Cathedral is in the City of Los Angeles and the Los Angeles Police Department is the most “politically correct” you could imagine, with regulations requiring the police officers to “protect gays and lesbians”.  The LAPD has no particular respect for the concept of “the right to Free Speech” and have actually been videotaped fomenting riots twice in the last 10 years.  By the way, the Los Angeles Police Department has a huge contingent of lesbian police officers who, if I am guessing correctly, will be there to protect their “sister”, and may be in plain clothes rather than in uniform.  If the ceremony is in another, larger facility, follow the same procedures described above. 

(2) Make sure to have both still and video cameramen stationed both inside and outside the Cathedral or other facility to document what occurs.  Ideally, each Bishop and Archbishop should have an aide with him, with a personal video camera, to videotape any encounters with the police, or local church officials.  Make sure your personal videographer photographs the name tag and the metal badge of each police officer you encounter.  If they have their names or badge numbers obscured know they have come to do physical battle.  Remember that LAPD’s officers do not care how important you are in your own Diocese or country.  Have a little fun rhetorically baiting them about your right to stand in an Episcopal church to practice your religion.  Tell them your branch of the Anglican church is still handcuffed to TEC.

(3) Make sure to wear your most full and elaborate vestments so that there is very vivid photographic coverage of any interaction with the local police forces. Photographs or videos of LAPD officers clubbing or handcuffing Bishops and Archbishops would be quite useful.

(4) Remember that in the view of the Los Angeles Police Department, the Bishop of Los Angeles owns the cathedral (or will be the lessee of the larger facility) and if he tells the police you are trespassing in the cathedral or on its grounds, and that you have been asked to leave, the police will treat you as trespassers and haul you away, even as you shout out concerning your First Amendment right to freedom of religion while standing in the nave of the cathedral.

(5) The only place the Los Angeles Police Department does not have a right to arrest you for protesting the ceremonies is if you are standing on a publicly owned sidewalk.  Some sidewalks are privately owned, so it will be important to have some lawyer do a title search on the ownership of the sidewalk in front of the cathedral or other location of the ceremony BEFORE the fracas starts.  If it is a public sidewalk, make sure that everyone has the document proving it in hand.

(6) Be prepared for the Bishop of Los Angeles to try to obtain an emergency court order, just a few days before the ceremony, to keep you out of the cathedral or other location where the ceremony will be held.  You should consult a lawyer about whether to have him appear in court to try to defeat the issuance of the order.  If you are going to oppose such an order, instruct the lawyer to affidavit/disqualify whatever judge is first assigned to the case, because disqualification of the judge will delay the issuance of such an order.  Such an emergency stay-away order would have to be served on each of you personally, before the ceremony, so keep your pre-ceremony whereabouts secret so that no process server can serve you with any stay-away order.

(7) Be prepared for there to be armed, private security officers at the ceremony, male and female, not necessarily in uniform, who also may attack you.  This, for example, is how the “private security” operates at gambling casinos and shopping malls in the USA.

(8) If you believe what you say, and what has been written about TEC’s and ABC’s breaches of its agreements with the Bishops and Archbishops, don’t be your typical polite Anglican selves who do not want to make a scene.  Show up and object.  Don’t be cowards.  Jesus was not afraid in the Garden when he was arrested for his beliefs.

Obviously I am not writing these things to mock or frighten you.  As a lawyer, I have been through this drill with clients many times before.  I just want you to be prepared, not surprised, if you decide to protest at these ceremonies.

[104] Posted by JenniferK on 4-9-2010 at 06:37 PM · [top]

What a marvelous stand. 

Thank you, good Bishop!!

Love,
One of the Sheep

[105] Posted by cityonahill on 4-9-2010 at 06:41 PM · [top]

It is going to take some courage for those of us who consider ourselves as part of the mainstream Episcopal church to stand up against the likes of Bishop Orombi, who has both power and eloquence on his side but is short on tolerance and reason. I am sure many of the people on this website will be jumping on his bandwagon, but all I can do is try to stand firm with what I regard as the teachings of Christ regarding the outcasts and unloved. God help us all.
Warren

[106] Posted by wsmith on 4-9-2010 at 08:42 PM · [top]

Troll Banned…comment deleted

[107] Posted by Luke Brown on 4-9-2010 at 09:05 PM · [top]

wsmith
I’m glad that you will reach out to the outcast and unloved as Christ would want you to, and help them to repent of their sins and sin no more.  There can be no more loving thing to do.

However the rest of you post makes no sense.  You seem to have switched the charater of the “mainstream of the Episcopal Church” (by which I think you mean those in charge) with Bishop OrombiTEC has all the political and financial power, all Bishop Orombi has is his faith and faithful followers.  TEC is the one who will not toloerate anyone with orthodox beliefs.  TEC is the ones who have to redefine words like sin to argue their position.  Show me one letter from the leadership of TEC that is as clear and well reasoned as this one.

[108] Posted by JustOneVoice on 4-9-2010 at 09:14 PM · [top]

That second to the last paragraph is a damning indictment in itself.

[109] Posted by gkissel on 4-9-2010 at 09:21 PM · [top]

Luke
You claim:

...he has accepted large sums of money from President Museveni and gifts that have even included a new car.

The article said President Museveni donated money for the consecration ceremony and PLEDGED a car.  The Church accepting donations from a member is not a problem.  We don’t know if the car was ever given or what was done with it.  It that is the best you have, I bet there are much more substancial donations to TEC from questionalble people.

Then you state:

One of Orombi’s top bishops has said the Church would prefer life imprisonment for gays as a living warning to others who might consider same gender relationships.

  There was nothing on this in either article you referenced.  IF this is a correct statement, first, it was not made by Orombi, second it might be that the life imprisonment was prefered to a worse punishment, such as death.

You also failed to mention these quotes from the article:

We do not want to persecute them (homosexuals) because we know they suffer and need assistance.

“Please, do not give up on the peace talks and this is within your calling,” Orombi urged the President.

He also highlighted the need to address the HIV challenge in Fort Portal.

He said the church would partner with the Government to fight HIV/AIDS, promote chastity among the youth and fidelity in couples and encourage prayer to heal the sick

So you have article that report on generous donations by a bad person to the church, and statements about not wanting to persecute homosexuals, trying for peace instead of war and curing the sick.  Thanks for the information.

[110] Posted by JustOneVoice on 4-9-2010 at 09:37 PM · [top]

..psst, JOV, don’t encourage him.  Poor thing was sent over here to make ad hominem attacks, rather than address the letter, or the facts stated there - which I imagine make some people very uncomfortable.

Luke and Warren, do you have anything to say about the things that the Archbishop says in his letter?  Do you dispute the facts or have some information that we don’t have, or are you just flying by to throw stones?

[111] Posted by GillianC on 4-9-2010 at 09:55 PM · [top]

Sorry for the intrusion of the now departed troll “Luke Brown”. He has been eliminated.

[112] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 4-9-2010 at 09:57 PM · [top]

Thank you, Matt!  I was thinking of giving him a real roasting (diplomatically, of course), but you beat me to the punch.

[113] Posted by Cennydd on 4-9-2010 at 10:49 PM · [top]

Regardless of the “trying to force your partner instead of you to be the one to file for divorce” game, I hope RW realizes he has a big stake in this, too—no matter who may or may not “file”, his legacy will still be the breakup of the Communion on his watch. 

As another example(perhaps not a very polite one in the presence of our British brethren) of a phenomenon like this would be the recent Clinton presidency…whatever good Clinton did or may have tried to do, what will go down in history is that he is the only president besides Johnson to be impeached; would that it was also for something more intelligent than lying under oath about his indiscretions in the Oval Office(amongst other places)—right, wrong, or indifferent, you will always be remembered for the most notorious thing…on the score of that base little human phenomenon, I sure wouldn’t want the breakup of the Communion on my back. 

It might have been a lot smarter to call a primates meeting after the Glasspool election to sort a few things out—what’s the point of being a conciliar Church if you’re not going to allow the Councils to do their jobs? 

This dippy little game of chicken is truly not worth it…better start subverting the little extorters(probably) and get the train back on the track.

[114] Posted by Anti-Harridan on 4-10-2010 at 01:44 AM · [top]

and I will urge you again.

<sarcasm>
Wow. Lookout!  He’s urging Rowan. Again. Yay.
</sarcasm>
What a joke.

[115] Posted by paradoxymoron on 4-11-2010 at 02:12 PM · [top]

Do you have a better way?  If you do, please enlighten the rest of us.

[116] Posted by Cennydd on 4-11-2010 at 02:35 PM · [top]

Are you urging me to tell you?  Are things truly so desperate that you would resort to urging someone?

[117] Posted by paradoxymoron on 4-11-2010 at 04:57 PM · [top]

Deploy the shrubbery while you’re at it.

[118] Posted by paradoxymoron on 4-11-2010 at 04:58 PM · [top]

Sorry, being intemperate.  Standard gripe: bishops and priests choosing institutional loyalty over the tenets of the faith that they swore to uphold.  I think they should tell rowan the facts, rather than continuing to ask him to do things that he has consistently proven that he’ll never do.  Schism: I’m all for it.  Impaired communion is nonsense - it means whatever the person saying it wants it to mean, or the person hearing it wants to hear.  There’s no such thing as impaired communion.  They should turn their backs on rowan, and apologize for not having done it years ago.

[119] Posted by paradoxymoron on 4-11-2010 at 05:16 PM · [top]

I am extremely happy that Archbishop Orombi has written this letter.  The ABC may refuse to read it, but I believe with all my heart that Almighty God has read it carefully.

[120] Posted by RicardoCR on 4-11-2010 at 09:37 PM · [top]

Paradoxymoron at #119:

There’s no such thing as impaired communion.  They should turn their backs on rowan,...

Well, they could always turn their backs on the Communion as a number of anglican churches did in 1977 - who then proceeded to rip each other to shreds whilst the secular world watched with amusement. That would be a good witness…

There is also the issue of what is to happen to those in TEC and CofE who remain faithful, such as +Lawrence and +Howe in TEC, many individual parishes in TEC who withhold donations, and many anglo-catholics and evangelicals in CofE. Should the primates abandon all of them?

<sarcasm> Wow. Lookout!  He’s urging Rowan. Again. Yay. </sarcasm> What a joke.

You may be interested to know that the Apostles spend a lot of time in scripture “urging” erring brethren to repent. They seemed to think it was a worthwhile activity.

[121] Posted by MichaelA on 4-11-2010 at 09:42 PM · [top]

More prayers may be found here, here, and here.

[122] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 4-11-2010 at 10:16 PM · [top]

Samuel to King Saul:

1 Samuel 15:23 (New King James Version)
For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft,
And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the LORD,
He also has rejected you from being king.

I find the linking of rebellion to witchcraft intriguing.  We have not witnessed Anglican leaders dancing around a cauldron saying incantations, but we have certainly seen manipulation, intimidation, and domination.

[123] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 4-11-2010 at 11:05 PM · [top]

Thank you for your quotation from Matthew.  Many of us are definitely praying for those who persecute us for loving our neighbors - all of our neighbors.  After reading the attacks from both sides I am beginning to believe that Bruxy Cavey’s “The End of Religion” should be required reading for all involved.
llbrub

[124] Posted by llbrub on 4-14-2010 at 06:34 AM · [top]

Really folks, you don’t understand how useless this all is, for as he was reading the letter ++Rowen reached down with his left hand, gathered up the fiddle and bow he found at his side and thought about the happy tune he might play.

As he put the fiddle on his shoulder he drew the bow across the strings and it made an evil hiss; then a band of deomons joined in and it sounded something like this:

Know that this is not the decision of one person, or a small group of people. It represents the mind of a majority of elected leaders in The Episcopal Church, lay, clergy, and bishops, who have carefully considered the opinions and feelings of other members of the Anglican Communion as well as the decades-long conversations within this Church. It represents a prayerful and thoughtful decision, made in good faith that this Church is ‘working out its salvation in fear and trembling, believing that God is at work in us’ (Philippians 2:12-13).

Apologies to Charlie Daniels,
RS Bunker

[125] Posted by RS Bunker on 4-15-2010 at 08:58 AM · [top]

Yeah, RS, but “working out” their salvation this way isn’t going to save them.

[126] Posted by Cennydd on 4-15-2010 at 09:10 AM · [top]

llbrub (124)
I have never heard of Cavey’s book, so I had to look it up.  According to the capsule description at theendofreligion.org “Cavey contends that the Jesus described in the Bible never intended to found a new religion; instead he hoped to break down the very idea of religion as a way to God.”

I’m not sure how reading this could help the debate.  Were Cavey’s thesis to be true, all that stuff Jesus said about building His church in Matthew 16 must have been added to the Bible by the Roman church to further their wicked desire for power.  Jesus’ teachings about His unique sufficiency and the sacraments in John 6 also seems a bit problematic for someone who didn’t want to fopund a religion, but we know what the religious Left thinks of John’s gospel.

If the scriptures were required reading, and were read by everyone with an open heart of humble submission to God and His revealed will, we would never have come to this place at all.

[127] Posted by Fine Young Calvinist on 4-15-2010 at 10:06 AM · [top]

[128] Posted by Calhoun on 5-2-2010 at 07:39 PM · [top]

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