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Matt Kennedy

Soft Talk: Conditioning People to Reject Orthodoxy

Tuesday, May 11, 2010 • 9:43 am

So when the next rector search or bishop election comes along and two candidates who differ on this particular question are set side by side, the lay person/clergy who has been conditioned to see the controversy over same sex behavior as a debate "within" the Church rather than an attack against it will be willing to consider each candidate using technocratic measures like "experience" or "qualifications" rather than measures like, "does this person's life and doctrine measure up to that which is given as a requirement in scripture?"

I’ve been brooding over the loss of Rio Grande as stalwart conservative diocese. I became an aspirant for Holy Orders in the Diocese of Texas in 1997. At that time, Rio Grande, West Texas, Texas, Dallas, and Ft. Worth formed a kind of orthodox phalanx. There were wobbly bishops among them, Claude Payne for example—my bishop—was an institutionalist’s institutionalist, but the dioceses themselves appeared solid. I never would have imagined circumstances would devolve so quickly.

By my estimate Rio Grande is as good as lost. Texas is sinking fast both by virtue of an unfortunate bishop’s election and by an unfortunate willingness to compromise on the part of leading conservative rectors. Dallas is solidly led at the moment by Bishop Stanton but given some of the internal pressures in that diocese, I worry about the next bishop’s election. Fort Worth is gone. West Texas is perhaps in the best shape. She has recently elected able conservative leadership in Bishop Lillibridge and there seem to be far more conservative rectors than liberal ones but I fear the problem I discuss below may also be her undoing. In the last 13 years, the State of Texas has lost or is in the process of losing 3 out of 5 of her conservative dioceses. And I fear the remaining two are within a bishop’s election of falling. 

I was going to write simply about Texas but the situation in Texas is not unique. It is rather symbolic of the conservative plight across the scorched husk of the Episcopal Church. I cannot think of a single remaining diocese, save perhaps South Carolina, that is not more than one bishop’s election away from disaster.

The reasons for these losses are myriad—willful neglect of parish and diocesan politics; a reticence to teach doctrine and point out error; simple laziness…but lately my focus has been arrested by a rhetorical tactic that seems particularly characteristic of conservative Episcopalian bishops (with notable exceptions).

Describing their differences with revisionists to the people in their dioceses, these bishops will write something like this:

“I personally believe that the bible/tradition does not permit same sex blessings and/or the consecration of non-celibate homosexuals to holy orders and so I will not allow same sex blessings in this diocese. At the same time I recognize that many sincere Episcopalians disagree with my position and I am well aware that there are many faithful people in this diocese who either struggle with questions of with sexual identity or who live in committed relationships with partners of the same sex. I am committed to engaging in conversation with my brothers and sisters who disagree with me on these matters and to be your bishop/pastor despite our differences.”

That was not taken from any real letter but was rather an imaginary example cobbled up from my own experience reading many such letters.

The aim seems to be twofold: 1. To honestly express ones own opinion on the matter of human sexuality and 2. To reduce the necessity for true conflict between those who differ on the question by acknowledging the sincerity and faithfulness of both positions.

Here is a real example of such a letter from the Bishop of Northern Indiana:

“It is not the case, in the Episcopal Church or in any other, that you’ve got believers on one side and heretics (or apostates) on the other. I know many in my church who love Jesus, confess him as Lord and Savior, believe the articles of the Christian faith as summarized in the Apostles’ and Nicene Creeds, and seek to follow Jesus in costly ways – and who, at the same time, affirm the decisions of the 2003 General Convention. As a matter of principle, when people claim to be disciples of Jesus, I will treat them as brothers and sisters in Christ, Bishop Gene Robinson among them. He is not only a colleague; I count him as friend and fellow pilgrim. I will commit myself to him, and to them, even when I am convinced that they are wrong. I will seek to manifest a godly forbearance, and ask that they do the same toward me.”

This is a very nice sounding letter. I don’t know when it was written but I am sure it won Bishop Little the applause of polite Episcopalians everywhere. I have no doubt the bishop believes every word of it.

But here is what that message communicates to uninformed, theologically uneducated or otherwise undecided people in the pews (the majority I think):

1. Those who teach that sexual relationships between people of the same sex are legitimate stand fully within the bounds of of the Church. We certainly disagree about certain details of the gospel…but not the gospel itself.

2. Those leaders who claim to be followers of Christ and are able to profess basic creedal propositions must be accepted as brothers and sisters even when the content of their teaching belies their profession. 

So when the next rector search or bishop election comes along and two candidates who differ on this particular question are set side by side, the lay person/clergy who has been conditioned to see the controversy over same sex behavior as a debate “within” the Church rather than an attack against it will be willing to consider each candidate using technocratic measures like “experience” or “qualifications” rather than measures like, “does this person’s life and doctrine measure up to that which is given as a requirement in scripture?”

So Gene Robinson is just as much a Christian brother as Ed Little because he says the Creeds with sincerity and confesses that Jesus is “Lord and Savior.”

So, four years down the line, when Ed Little or a bishop like him, calls for a coadjutor and a bishop is elected who carries a great deal of experience and promises to ordain clergy living in same sex relationships and to allow same sex blessings and the predictable hue and cry arises from the conservative side and perhaps Ed Little himself is disappointed, whole swaths of people conditioned to think of this as a relatively minor disagreement among brethren will stare blankly like cows at a new fence and wonder aloud and to themselves “what all the fuss is about?”

Because over time whole dioceses are being conditioned to view the question of human sexuality as if it is adiaphoral fodder that various huffy people get upset about but that really doesn’t matter so long as we all gather round the altar and stand and move our lips together when the Creed is said.

Rhetorical softness pays immediate dividends in the sense that it fosters peaceful coexistence and makes one’s episcopal tenure more pleasant than it otherwise could be but at least among Anglicans once an issue is relegated to ‘non-essential’ status it is generally deemed “unimportant” and if the culture is moving firmly to one side of the “unimportant issue” there is no reason for the church to be a stick in the mud and resist.

For that reason, I think it inevitable that in every presently conservative diocese where this rhetorical tactic is used, there will, ultimately, be a revisionist bishop elected.

Those of us who regularly use the word “heretic” or apostate to describe an ordained leader who has publicly departed from biblical standards and is teaching other to do the same are often roundly criticised for our rudeness. And sometimes we deserve it. But I use the words not only because they are accurate (which in itself would not be reason enough—there are after all many accurate and true things we should not say about other people) but because I do not want my readers or the people I lead in my parish to confuse the two very different gospels that are presently at war in the Anglican world.

I want people to examine my life, words, and teachings and those of the leaders who will come after me by biblical standards and if that means conflict and contention then so be it. I think it is a good thing for people in a church or diocese to be suspicious enough of wolves that they look very carefully at the cut of the wool.

The way to condition them to do that, I think, is to define truth clearly, point out error definitively, and identify those who propound it by name. Rhetorical softness will only lead to conditioned complacency and, ultimately, to the loss of orthodoxy. It is happening before our eyes. 


Comments:

Neuhaus:

When orthodoxy becomes optional, it soon becomes proscribed.

TEC is dying as much from the “niceness” and refusal to engage in godly confrontation of believers as from the cunning, political savvy and ruthlessness of unbelievers.  Sic transit.

[1] Posted by Milton on 05-11-2010 at 09:10 AM • top

You’re right as rain on this one, Fr. Kennedy.  Give me fidei defensor over politeness any day.

BigTex AC

[2] Posted by BigTex AC on 05-11-2010 at 09:14 AM • top

I wonder whether, if one stands “downwind” from this blog thread, one will detect the scent of the Sage of Santa Fe approaching? I have an alliterative request. If anyone of you notices the stale smell of self-righteous sanctimony, could you please be so kind as to alert me. Thanks.

Pax et bonum,
Keith Töpfer

[3] Posted by H. Potter (aka Martial Artist) on 05-11-2010 at 09:43 AM • top

You are dead right on this one.  Anxiety minimization is not the gospel.

[4] Posted by Townsend Waddill+ on 05-11-2010 at 09:46 AM • top

Matt,

Though we disagree on some other important things, I fully agree with you about the danger of soft, conciliatory rhetoric like +Ed Little’s.  That was not the way of Paul, or Jesus!  Just recall Rom. 16:17-18, or Matt 23, where the Master blasts his opponents among the scribes and Pharisees with furious denunciations that are white-hot.

Of course, that kind of vehement language is polarizing and highly divisive.  But that’s not always bad.  Sometimes, it’s even essential.

David Handy+

[5] Posted by New Reformation Advocate on 05-11-2010 at 09:50 AM • top

Start the timers, NRA and I are in agreement (and supporting Matt+)... How long can it last?

[6] Posted by Bo on 05-11-2010 at 10:03 AM • top

The same war exists in Lutheranism.  The ELCA and LCMS recently discussed the ELCA’s actions at their 2009 Churchwide Assembly:

http://www.lcms.org/pages/rpage.asp?NavID=16933

A couple of quotes:

The LCMS believes that disagreements about the sinfulness of homosexual behavior “impact the Gospel itself,” since the Gospel is “the heart, center, and ultimate message of the Bible,” and that “a church body’s acceptance of homosexual activity promotes a false security about behavior and conduct which God has forbidden and from which He longs to redeem us.”

(From Rev. Nafzger of the LCMS) “The ELCA wants to respect the ‘bound consciences’ of both sides in this debate, but in our opinion, it cannot do this without having a different understanding of the authority of Scripture than that held by the LCMS.  The Missouri Synod regards consciences bound to positions that contradict the simple and plain meaning of Scripture as erring consciences in need of confession and absolution.”

ELCA news release on the same meeting is here:

http://www.elca.org/Who-We-Are/Our-Three-Expressions/Churchwide-Organization/Communication-Services/News/Releases.aspx?a=4520

[7] Posted by Harry Edmon on 05-11-2010 at 10:04 AM • top

They deliberate omitted the defend the Faith parts from ordinations so this niceness protocol would work.  The consequence is that far more Episcopalians will discover that they have the faith wrong and not just the fork.  The consequences will be owned by the choosers.

[8] Posted by dwstroudmd+ on 05-11-2010 at 10:08 AM • top

When the pew sitters do not trouble themselves to read and study Holy Scripture they cannot test what priests and bishops are telling them against what is clearly written because they do not know what is written.  How can the sheep recognize the voice of the false shepherd when they have not heard the voice of the True Shepherd?  The church is not spoiled by the leaders alone, but also by irresponsible followers.  This does not absolve the leaders of their guilt, but it does spread the guilt around a bit.  God help us all!
Frances Scott

[9] Posted by Frances S Scott on 05-11-2010 at 10:16 AM • top

Matt, I agree with you. But, as I was reading this, I had a thought (always a dangerous thing). Just as a matter of biblical consistency, should the same stand be made on divorce/remarriage, given the strong, consistent, and unambiguous biblical admonitions against it? Or is that battle lost?

[10] Posted by advocate on 05-11-2010 at 10:16 AM • top

I became an Anglican in the Diocese of Dallas, in an orthodox parish with a highly orthodox rector (St. David of Wales-Denton, Canon HW Herrmann). About 8 months ago, we received visits from both our Bishop and his Suffragan within 3 days (for his parish visit, and for our Red Mass). Certainly, they seem to be of the mold described above - personally orthodox, but only to the point where it doesn’t step on anyone’s feet. I fear for the diocese after +Stanton retires, which elected a staunch institutionalist as Suffragan not too long ago (who has stood at the altar with the PB in the rump dio. of Forth Worth). Certainly, the orthodox parishes in the diocese are on the edge of their seats, and the coming years could prove rough for those who decide to remain faithful within TEC. Prayers ascend for them.
For myself, I’m blessed now to be in a faithful body, the ACNA, under the leadership of +Guernsey, a faithful bishop, in one of the many mission parishes started through the work of the Holy Spirit.

FWIW,

Lubbock, Texas Anglican

[11] Posted by WestTxAnglican on 05-11-2010 at 10:18 AM • top

Underlying the “Rhetorical softness” is a false ideology that truth is subjective. Another way of looking at the temptation in the Garden is to put Satan’s question this way. “Is that what YOU heard God say”?Today the desire for unity drives the quest for truth. If we are not seeking God’s will we will have a false unity and a false truth.  Unity does not bring God’s will or truth. God’s will brings unity. At the heart of all of this is a willingness to exchange the will of God for our own will. When truth is subjective, the search then becomes a rationalizing process, not a rational process.

[12] Posted by Fr. Dale on 05-11-2010 at 10:22 AM • top

Advocate,
God Himself issued a certificate of divorce, and took a new bride.

[13] Posted by Bo on 05-11-2010 at 10:26 AM • top

#11-
Just look at the way that +Stanton dealt with(or didn’t) the whole +Robinson fiasco wrt the Cathedral of Hope. Good luck to you fellas on the other side of the Trinity, you’re gonna need it.

BigTex AC

[14] Posted by BigTex AC on 05-11-2010 at 11:01 AM • top

Having served during the entire episcopates of +Kelshaw and +Steenson, you described the decline that occurred when the then Cn. Steenson took my friend +Ed Little’s position and curried the support of the progressives in the DRG. +Jeff reaped the whirlwind as he had boundaries that he would not compromise. He chose to draw closer to the one, holy catholic and apostolic Church, not move laterally. For him it meant the Bishop of Rome or the Patriarch of Orthodoxy. As a Western Christian, he chose obedience to the Bishop of Rome.

The pieces were in place: a discouraged body of clergy and laity that knew that Trinity at the Market Place, St. Clement and Cloudcroft were faithful churches standing for the faith once delivered.; the progressives were entrenched, the moderates willing to be very polite and the remaining orthodox without any political power. A process to gloss over all differences and elect an inclusive bishop on a sandcastle process with a name equal to “Indaba,” began. For me, my last diocesan convocation was a sickening time of grief. 8/6/08, I requested a Letter Dimissory to the Anglican Church of Kenya. This request was denied by Fr. Colon Kelley who referred it to the Standing Committee. They tabled it as I had made it clear that in no canonical way was that request for a Letter Dimissory a renunciation of my ordination vows.

Abp Nzimbi of Kenya and diocesan of the All Saints Cathedral Diocese in Nairobi gave the DRG Ecclestical Authority sixty days to act and then he placed me on the role of CoK clergy. I served the CoK under the supervision of the Suffragan for International Relations, +Bill Atwood, and I chose to remain in the iDio [Int’l Dio.] of the ACNA serving with +Bill as my diocesan bishop.

After the canons were changed at GC ’09, in Dec. 2009, my name was removed by the DRG Standing Committee from the ministry in the Episcopal Church. Gutless.

Over two years later at the nominating the orthodox Anglican Leander Harding+ was nominated via a complex petition process; however, no way could an orthodox nominee be elected. A priest amenable to inclusive clergy and inclusive GC was elected to become bishop of the DRG. This will happen everywhere in TEC.

Many millstones now are neck ware in NM and Texas west of the Pecos. I pray for and love them all. . .

[15] Posted by Bob Maxwell+ on 05-11-2010 at 11:05 AM • top

Having recently returned to Anglicanism after forty-four years, I was greatly concerned about the direction the church had moved. It was not the church I remembered wherein if you were divorced you could not be married in the church. I’m sure my old priest has been spinning in his grave with all that has transpired of late. As for me I am in Ft. Worth with Bishop Iker and am glad of it. I feel as though I have found a good home, one strong in the true gospel of Christ. I am excited to be at the beginning of a new province and I look forward to see how ACNA grows and praises the Lord righteously. I pray that TEC finally comes to see the folly of their teachings and humbly asks God for forgiveness and repent of their wicked ways.

[16] Posted by michaelc on 05-11-2010 at 11:47 AM • top

#7. Harry, I totally agree. I know Lutheran faculty where I teach. We had a very interesting conversation about differences within both churches. We are agreed that are serious divisions in both churches. I do know that their bishop voted against the changes in ELCA.  However,  my fellow faculty is in a parish where the minister agrees with this nonsense.

In fact, this minister has decided to put a lot of time and effort into recruiting homosexuals for the parish to the detriment of other parishioners who may need counseling or visitations. Yes, this minister has said if you are not homosexual, don’t except me to visit you or counsel you anymore. PERIOD. This minister has swallowed the “revisionist”  line hook, line and sinker. When asked I why this minister was doing this, my friend told me that this is   the “party line” so to speak from the powers that be at ELCA headquarters.  This minister believes that homosexuals are nicer than other kinds of people.  My friend had tried to tell the parish this before they hired this guy. NOW, people are beginning to believe him. TOO LATE. 

Matt+, You are absolutely right. When the orthodox began to be respectful of the opinions of revisionists, the cause of the faith once delivered is in jeopardy.  You will *love* what was told me in a recent womens book group discussion. The book is N. T Wright’s “Simply Christian”.  When I mentioned Pantheism and Gnosticism as heresy and mentioned Bishop Allison’s book,” The Cruelty of Heresy”, I was told that heretics are “simply the losers of the argument”.  When I retorted with then why did the early church take so much time in defining what is Christianity and what is it not with one result being the Nicene Creed,  my fellow parishioner couldn’t answer.  Believe me, I will try to get ” The Cruelty of Heresy” as our next book. 

We all need to play our part in making sure that laity and clergy understand what is orthodoxy and what is heresy.  That is one strength of this diocese (SC). Many here are educated in what is orthodoxy and what is not.  However, that could go within a decade or two if things change. We too are at risk of electing a revisionist bishop. Mark Lawrence+ is not immortal.  I remember when the diocese was dealing with the task of electing another bishop. There was great angst in this diocese as who will be the next bishop (XIV).

[17] Posted by Blue Cat Man on 05-11-2010 at 12:50 PM • top

I would suggest reading or listening to Coptic Bishop Suriel’s address to the recent GS meeting as an example of how a bishop should confront evil. Conciliatory namby pambyness won’t cut it.

[18] Posted by via orthodoxy on 05-11-2010 at 12:50 PM • top

Fr. Matt, Your summary letter is perfect.

It is hard to pin the name apostate or heretic on these bishops when their letters sound so “nice.” Killing us with kindness, they might be better called “weasels” except that is disrespectful…to weasels.

[19] Posted by Undergroundpewster on 05-11-2010 at 01:13 PM • top

[7] Harry Edmon,

Whenever anyone introduces an appeal to conscience, (a) without qualifying that term with the modifier informed, or (b) fails to remark on the inescapable obligation of Christians to make the strenuous effort to inform their consciences, or (c) still worse, fails on both (a) and (b), they are engaging in misdirection, whether intentional or inadvertent.

Bishop Little seems to have abandoned the question of informed conscience altogether, except to use it in a manner that seems to imply some negative connotation with respect to those who deem themselves compelled by their conscience to depart.

Pax et bonum,
Keith Töpfer

[20] Posted by H. Potter (aka Martial Artist) on 05-11-2010 at 01:20 PM • top

+Ed Little is a man of personal faith and a friend of both [now] Fr. Jeff Steenson of the Archdiocese of Santa Fe and of mine. He read the epistle? at Jeff’s ordination as a priest which I attended. He teaches to inform consciences yet rightly expects each person to be responsible for the formation of their informed conscience.

I’m not a prophet; however, Fr. Jeff Steenson PhD, Patristics, Oxford, would be an excellent leader for the new Anglican Use communities that Pope Benedict sees in formation. He was assigned as the Visiting Lecturer inaugurating the Patristics Chair at St. Thomas Aquinas University in Houston, ‘09-‘10.

[21] Posted by Bob Maxwell+ on 05-11-2010 at 02:46 PM • top

#13 Bo, I have no idea what you are talking about. I am simply making the point that we have another equally biblical issue, one that also fundamentally touches on marriage and sexuality, and one that new testament scripture is clear in condemning that affects far more people than homosexuality. while I think that it is important that bishops speaks clearly and with authority on moral issues, shouldn’t we at least be consistent and demand that our bishops be equally consistent and vocal concerning a moral practice that Jesus in fact specifically forbade. I’m just askin’.

[22] Posted by advocate on 05-11-2010 at 03:09 PM • top

Matt hits the nail on the head here.  And note how the responses described by Matt play hand-in-glove with the approach used by the revisionists.  I hang out at some centrist blogs and have also conversed with some of the more moderate revisionists.  Very few of them will actually engage you or try to convince you that the Bible speaks conclusively in favor of homosexual behavior.  Rather, whenever they face a debate on the Bible and homosexuality, they will almost always revert to claiming that “serious Bible scholars have come down on both sides of the issue.”  What they are trying to do is get you to the position as Matt explains above - where you say “well, gee, I guess I don’t have to agree with SSB’s after all, in order for it to be okay that TEC blesses them.”  Once a liberal has successfully gotten you to this point, they have won the war.

[23] Posted by jamesw on 05-11-2010 at 03:31 PM • top

[21] Father Maxwell,

Just to be totally clear, I hold no brief for or against Bishop Little or Father Steenson. I, along with my wife, will be received into the Catholic Church at the noon Mass on Pentecost next. I was addressing what Bishop Little wrote. It struck me as being more generous to those who hold an opposing view on the subject being discussed than I would expect of a Bishop, given the teaching responsibilities of his office. But then again, Rome has both long- and continuously-held doctrinal teachings, expressed unambiguously through its Catechism, and a formal magisterium, while Anglicanism viewed as an ecclesial community (at least that portion of it which I experienced in the U.S. for 39 years, and remotely and vicariously in the UK in more recent days) seemed increasingly to lack both to some significant degree.

Further, if my memory is correct, I believe I have read a credible account of Bishop Robinson having acknowledged “crossing his fingers” (or the functional equivalent of doing so) at some unspecified portion of the Nicene Creed, while still a relatively junior priest. I fear that the Episcopal Church, again from my experience of it, has come to a state in which the fact that someone states that he or she

believe(s) the articles of the Christian faith as summarized in the Apostles’ and Nicene Creeds

is not sufficient evidence to confidently conclude that such a person’s belief as to what constitutes an accurate summary of them is consonant with that of the authors of those creeds, or of the faithful who first recited them, or of those who hold those same understandings today. There has developed too much “crossing of fingers” and assertions that “the language is figurative,” etc. But, undoubtedly, some may chalk that up to personal bias on my part.

Pax et bonum,
Keith Töpfer

[24] Posted by H. Potter (aka Martial Artist) on 05-11-2010 at 03:33 PM • top

I have a letter that was forwarded to me by a third party, written by a layperson who claimed that, “Jesus would have different priorities,” than the controversies generated by the national church. 

I looked at it and thought to myself, this layperson has just inadvertantly proven that the controversy over homosexuality is in fact, Christological.  For if Jesus came down and said, “I don’t care about this controversy,” then He’d be doing so based on His character.  Or, if Jesus said, “Uh, I care a lot,” then He’d be doing so (you guessed it) based on His character. 

So we really can’t get away from the Christological component, and we shouldn’t make the attempt.

[25] Posted by Elder Oyster on 05-11-2010 at 03:34 PM • top

#25 Oyster - good observation.  I will have a quote up on my blog on Thurs. (Ascension Day) which gets into the same discussion.  If we say “Jesus would have…” we are way into Christology, since that language implies that he’s a dead historical figure, a mere moral example, or just a myth with some symbolic value.  When the Church can’t say “Jesus cares about/doesn’t care about…”, it should just shut up.

[26] Posted by Timothy Fountain on 05-11-2010 at 03:44 PM • top

There is confusion about different kinds of “inessentials”. There are inessential matters where the Church has never had, does not have and will never have a definitive teaching, over which differences of opinion may continue forever. And there are inessential matters about which a false belief does not threaten salvation, but about which the Church has a firm moral teaching, so that those who deny the belief must continually be reproved and contended with, and not “engaged with” and dialogued with. When the two categories are confused a false ‘inessential’ belief may grow like a weed.

I also believe that there are some orthodox people who hold to some moral truths not because they are asserted by Scripture and tradition, but just because they are the conventional beliefs they have grown up with, just as within living memory one always wore a suit and tie to church. When the world drops and then vigourously attacks these beliefs, their hold on the conventional-orthodox believer evaporates.

[27] Posted by Toral1 on 05-11-2010 at 03:57 PM • top

#27. Toral1,

There is confusion about different kinds of “inessentials”.

Are you referring to confusion on this thread or confusion in general? I would not refer to wearing a suit and tie as “conventional beliefs”. I would call it custom.

[28] Posted by Fr. Dale on 05-11-2010 at 04:14 PM • top

Fr Dale: I was not alleging confusion on this thread. I was talking about confusion in the minds of the type of people who take positions such as those taken by the letterwriters that are the subject of the thread.

[29] Posted by Toral1 on 05-11-2010 at 04:20 PM • top

Diocese of Louisiana may well be on the way, too.  We just consecrated a new Bishop who is solidly in the ‘full inclusion / doing a new thing’ camp.  He has talked moderation and balance, but I do not expect that to last once he “grows” in his new job (why is turning Left always “growing”??).

[30] Posted by cliffg on 05-11-2010 at 04:25 PM • top

Matt,
When I think more about the title of the thread “Soft Talk: Conditioning People to Reject Orthodoxy”, I wonder how much is agenda driven and intentional(certainly by some)and how much is a result of those who have attempted in their own mind to rationalize remaining in a deteriorating situation. It seems like it is the tension between unity and truth that keeps bubbling to the surface. It seems like a Bishop trying to “live into” a changing situation affects a lot more folks than a single parishioner. I was reminded that as clergy, we speak for the church when I offered an “opinion” during my oral examination. It is still echoing in my ears.

[31] Posted by Fr. Dale on 05-11-2010 at 04:30 PM • top

Matt,
Wonderful analysis.  Yes, the people who don’t see, perhaps not wanting to see, are at the heart of it.  Fr. Dale is right on.
As to Rio Grande, they may not be a good example of your thesis, although West Texas surely is.  Please remember that the departure of the orthodox in Rio Grande began before Steenson left and continued afterward.  Trinity at the Marketplace started the exodus, followed by St. Clements and St. Francis on the Hill in El Paso, as well as churches in Farmington, Cloudcroft, Las Cruces.  More recently, Christ the King Anglican Church was formed when 70 percent (at least) of the St Marks on the Mesa congregation (ASA 200 plus) dramatically left last October, attracting the priest and much of the congregation from St. Francis in Rio Rancho as well as people from several other congregations in Albuquerque.  I do not know of any orthodox leaders, priest or lay, remaining in TEC’s NEW Diocese of the Rio Grande.

[32] Posted by GeneB on 05-11-2010 at 05:04 PM • top

Fr. Dale, I believe that you are so right about a bishop or a priest affecting a lot more people than a lay person would. “The hungry sheep look up and are not fed.” (John Milton)

[33] Posted by Nellie on 05-11-2010 at 05:25 PM • top

btw thanks, Fr. Matt, for taking the time to write this for folks in TEC now that you are out.  This is something you could just ignore.  So you’ve made a generous offering - I hope some folks will look but one of the problems is the barrier by which folks “Don’t read the blogs because they make people angry.”  It is part of the problem you describe, especially among the lay people.

[34] Posted by Timothy Fountain on 05-11-2010 at 05:27 PM • top

Yet another method was employed by our HERETIC bishop Creighton Robertson back in 2003. 

I sat in the cathedral and listened to him explain why he voted FOR Robinson:  “I decided that it was not my place to stand in the way of what the people of New Hampshire wanted in their bishop.”.  He made completely pushed away the Word of God, and made it about voting representation/polity/whatever you want to call it. 

It was that day, that service, that LIE spoken directly to our faces that put me on notice that it was time to get out.

[35] Posted by midwestnorwegian on 05-11-2010 at 05:43 PM • top

[30] cliffg,

You asked

why is turning Left always “growing”??

The answer to your question is very straightforward. The Left, often incorrectly referred to as liberal, is actually predominantly comprised of progressives. They generally hold to the idea that man continually progresses, makes progress. Some of them allow for the possibility of temporary and/or local regression, but by and large they are the people you will hear lauding the progress we (i.e., humanity) has made since some often unspecified time in past history. They also hold to the idea that we are now knowledgeable and smart enough to design solutions to the problems of mankind and society. This is an adherence to the progressive fallacy, which can also be stated as the proposition that if you put enough experts in a room and give them all the data (or information) those experts can come up with “the one best solution.” Which frequently begs the issue of whether one solution can possibly be best for everyone, viz., the recent health care reform solution. Not to mention the fact that by the time the data has been gathered, collated, analysed and conclusions drawn, that data has become stale, i.e., peoples’ priorities have changed.

Of course, if we examine this a little closer, that very worldview treads very close to the idea that we know enough to “know the difference between Good and Evil,” which quotation should put you in mind of a rather important passage in Genesis, and also pretty well defines what their real problem is—they think they don’t need God’s revelation, they “can be like God.”

So “growing” is a pretty good term to use to describe “progress.” And, in their eyes, anything that furthers human progress is a good thing, even if what is being discussed is, in reality, neither more, nor less, than an opium dream.

Pax et bonum,
Keith Töpfer

[36] Posted by H. Potter (aka Martial Artist) on 05-11-2010 at 05:48 PM • top

Fr. Tim (#26)

Thanks!  I look forward to your blog entry this coming Thursday. 

- EO

“Most anthologists of quotations are like those who eat cherries or oysters; first picking the best ones and winding up by eating everything.” 
- Sebastian Roch Nicolas Chamfort

[37] Posted by Elder Oyster on 05-11-2010 at 05:57 PM • top

#37. MA,

The answer to your question is very straightforward. The Left, often incorrectly referred to as liberal, is actually predominantly comprised of progressives. They generally hold to the idea that man continually progresses, makes progress.

That’s right we ban nuclear weapons and handguns and capital punishment but have killed even more people than those combined with “medical interventions”. How far have we really come MA?

[38] Posted by Fr. Dale on 05-11-2010 at 06:14 PM • top

The TEC in Texas has a lot of variation. In Fort Worth it’s a shambles. The only question is whether the ACNA will succeed. Northwest Texas is low on Money and long in the tooth for Aging. And very, very quiet since the election of a new bishop. West Texas appears quite normal with no severe Aging and a healthy percentage (48%) of churches with Plate & Pledge over $150K in 2008. Dallas took a real beating in 2002 through 2008 but is youngish and had 52 percent of its churches with Plate & Pledge over $150K in 2008. And then there is Texas which is quite youngish and with lots of Money given that 64 perceent of its churches had Plate & Pledge ove $150K in 2008.    Statmann

[39] Posted by Statmann on 05-11-2010 at 06:31 PM • top

[22] advocate
Jesus did not specifically forbid divorce and remarriage.

He forbade divorce for anything less than ‘‘pornea’ (rendered as fornication in the KJV).  Likewise the ban of remarriage applies only to those who were not divorced according to this limitation.

God gave Israel here certificate of divorce for her continued whoring after other gods.  He has taken the church as His new bride.

The importance of keeping the marriage bed pure, the ban on ‘convince divorce’, and the desirability of restoration, should all be preached, but to preach that ‘Christ forbids divorce and remarriage’ would be to preach a lie.

Matthew 5:32, Matthew 19:9, Jeremiah 3:8, II Corinthians 11:2

[40] Posted by Bo on 05-11-2010 at 07:05 PM • top

[24] Keith Töpfer,

without wishing to dissuade you on your journey across the Tiber I still want to point out that while Rome may have clear and unabiguous positions expressed in the Catechism and by the Magisterium, there are many clergy and even bishops on that side of the Tiber who hold and teach otherwise, and often without censure from their superiors.

An unwillingness to confront heresy is not the prerogative of TEC bishops by any means.

Wolf Paul
Vienna, Austria

[41] Posted by Wolf Paul on 05-12-2010 at 01:23 AM • top

You are quite right, Wolf Paul. That is exactly the situation in the Roman Church at the moment. Priests, nuns, bishops, cardinals - many have strayed from official church teaching, and taken many of the “faithful” with them. Since those disillusioned with TEC first began swimming the Tiber in larger and larger numbers, I have thought that those who crossed were going to be very disappointed when they found they had exchanged one mess for another. There are many clergy in the Roman church who have thrown aside orthodox beliefs, too.

[42] Posted by Nellie on 05-12-2010 at 07:53 AM • top

[38] Fr. Dale,

Your reply is precisely the point I was implying in my comment. My own views are quite the opposite of those of the progressives. None of us, individuals or groups, “knows” enough to design a “just society.” Some of us know just barely enough to design a society and its laws in such a manner that we can aim at justice, realizing both that we will almost certainly never completely attain it, because only God is truly just.

Pax et bonum,
Keith Töpfer

[43] Posted by H. Potter (aka Martial Artist) on 05-12-2010 at 09:18 AM • top

[41] Wolf Paul and [42] Nellie,

All churches, being comprised of sinful human beings, include laity and clergy who “(throw) aside orthodox beliefs.” However, both of you are overlooking two distinctive differences between most of those (including TEC) as compared with Rome.

Those differences are, first, that the teaching of the magisterium is, in essence, unchanged in the history of the church. None of the additions constitute contradictions of what she has previously taught. Second, while there are heretical priests, inadequate bishops, and disobedient and dissenting laity in the Catholic Church, they do not constitute a majority and they certainly don’t seem to be common amongst those in charge of her life.

I would strongly contend that the same cannot honestly be asserted for TEC, whether one considers General Convention, its two houses, their presiders, or even anything other than a very small minority of their bishops. Small difference in appearances, perhaps, but a very large difference in results.

Pax et bonum,
Keith Töpfer

[44] Posted by H. Potter (aka Martial Artist) on 05-12-2010 at 09:31 AM • top

[44] Keith Töpfer:

It would be absolutely pointless doing a country-by-country comparison of who has what majority; and in any case I am agreed that a major difference is that the Magisterium is still (from a Catholic perspective at least, Protestants will disagree) sound unlike the official authorities of TEC and other churches like that.

However, I am not convinced that in my country those Catholics who are both committed to Christ, their faith and the Church are in the majority. The majority are probably those who were sprinkled as infants, and although they have no faith could not be bothered to officially leave the church. Among the activists, the dissenters seem to be in the majority.

[45] Posted by Wolf Paul on 05-12-2010 at 09:37 AM • top

[45] Wolf Paul,

You may well be correct about Österreich. Although Cristoph Cardinal Schöborn certainly seems soundly faithful. I can only speak for my experience here in the U.S., and even then, mostly for the Seattle area. I have the good fortune to be in a very sound Dominican parish, and I am sure some of our parishioners are dissenters, but the parish is the most loving and faithful Christian community I have ever experienced and the leadership (clergy and laity) knows and loves Jesus, and He shines out in their lives.

Another factor that may affect our perceptions about who is the majority and who the minority can also be that the activists are, not infrequently, the loudest and most vocal, making them sometimes seem to be the majority even when they are not. Most of the faithful Catholics I have met are not “activists” in either temperament or comportment. But I only know those whom I have met and with whom I have shared experiences.

In the final analysis, God is in charge and knows who His followers are. The shepherd knows his sheep, and Jesus is our shepherd, so I will continue on to Rome and will continue to pray that all of us (faithful and dissenters, Catholic and non-Catholic, and those at all points on the “political” spectrum, alike) will have our eyes opened by God to His will for our lives.

Pax et bonum,
Keith Töpfer

[46] Posted by H. Potter (aka Martial Artist) on 05-12-2010 at 09:55 AM • top

H.Potter (24)

When Gene was in seminary he complained to an adviser that he could not accept many portions of the creed, he was told that it was ok and to just say the parts that weren’t a problem to him.

When priests are “educated” like this how could we expect different results?

Pax

[47] Posted by r3ussell on 05-12-2010 at 12:25 PM • top

[47] r3ussell,

You are correct, we shouldn’t expect a different result. I cited this because Bishop Little wrote [emphasis mine]

I know many in my church who love Jesus, confess him as Lord and Savior, believe the articles of the Christian faith as summarized in the Apostles’ and Nicene Creeds, and seek to follow Jesus in costly ways – and who, at the same time, affirm the decisions of the 2003 General Convention.

The oxymoronic assertion here is the suggestion that someone who doesn’t assert that they “believe the articles of the Christian faith as summarized in the Apostles’ and Nicene Creeds”, to wit Bishop Robinson unless he has overcome his earlier obstacles to belief, can still be greeted by Bishop Little, not simply as a Christian, or as a fellow pilgrim, which I could understand, but as an overseer, i.e., as a fellow επίσκοπος, one responsible to not only teach the Gospel, but to “safeguard” it. There is a very fine line that Bishop Little is attempting to tread and I, for one, am not convinced that his doing so places him on solid ground.

Pax et bonum,
Keith Töpfer

[48] Posted by H. Potter (aka Martial Artist) on 05-12-2010 at 12:53 PM • top

I may be wrong, but I think that Bp Robinson’s doubts about the Creed were expressed when he was an undergrad at Sewanee, not in seminary.  The chaplain told him to say what he could honestly say.  Of course, whether he ever got to the point of upholding the entire Creed (in its original meaning) is another question, but the doubts were not first expressed in seminary, but in college.  He probably did get to the place where he could justify saying each article of the Creed, I am sure - but whether he had to “redefine” some phrases or not, I do not know.

[49] Posted by AnglicanXn on 05-12-2010 at 01:29 PM • top

Fr. Matt is dead-on.  “The Church is divided on the issue” is a smokescreen…the Church is not divided on the issue and neither is the Gospel—it’s humans who are divided on the issue, especially those looking for a free pass or blessing on sin. 

And the more one sits in pews with blinders on, the more the Borg, not the Christ or the Gospel, gets assimilated.

[50] Posted by Anti-Harridan on 05-12-2010 at 10:26 PM • top

Welcome, H. Potter (or K. Toepfer—and I don’t know how
to type an umlaut so I’m doing it in the old-
fashioned way—hope you don’t mind!)!  And I truly
appreciate your comments, which mainly express my own opinions in a much clearer way than I ever could have.
  Surely God is protecting the Church of Rome in a way
that he can’t protect any denomination which is less
than fully the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic
Church, since I think you are correct about doctrine
never changing, and you seem to have far greater
intellectual knowledge than I do to back up that claim.
I will always treasure my Anglican heritage (as my
Catholic bishop urges me to do), but the Episcopal
Church which I grew up in has vanished forever,
and after three years I can honestly say I’m very
happy in the (Roman) Catholic Church and can’t imagine
ever leaving.
  Keith, I bet you’ll feel the same way, and you have
more book-learning than I do to defend the commitment
you’re about to make.  But then, the deacon who taught
our RCIA class told us, “You don’t have to defend your
faith to anyone!”  True enough.  Thanks.

[51] Posted by PaulA. on 05-12-2010 at 10:30 PM • top

Matt,
Good analysis. The problem of “soft” bishops, however, is not just a matter of being personally nasty or nice but of ecclesiastical politics. If a bishop declares another bishop heretical or apostate, he must logically consider crossing borders, as the Global South bishops have done since 2003.

This rubicon was not crossed as early as 1996 and remains uncrossed.

I described the issue in my 1999 essay on Broken Communion. Here is the relevant section:

“A Place to Stand”: Disassociating from the People or the Positions?

One of the gifts the American Anglican Council first offered Episcopalians in 1996 was a clear confession of Christian essentials adapted to our present context and endorsed by an Advisory Council of Bishops. It is called “A Place to Stand, A Call to Mission.” At the first AAC Board meeting in August 1996, convened just weeks after the Righter trial had concluded, members debated how to respond to those in the Episcopal Church whom they knew had and would continue to violate biblical doctrine and practice. The Board decided to take a “centrist” stance of disassociating themselves from false teachings and practices without breaking communion with the purveyors of those teachings and practices.

This decision has had consequences. On the one hand, it has helped the AAC to work within the system and avoid some of the most virulent accusations of being “schismatic.” On the other hand, it has raised the question of whether and when the AAC and its bishops will take action against revisionist leaders. This latter problem has been most apparent in the case of “frontline” parishes, who have turned for support to groups like First Promise and AACOM rather than to the AAC.

Therefore I proposed in February 1999 a change of wording for “A Place to Stand, A Call to Mission” that would reflect the view stated above about broken communion (changes in italics):

When teachings and practices contrary to Scripture and to this orthodox Anglican perspective are permitted within the Church — or even authorized by the General Convention — in obedience to God, we will disassociate ourselves from those [who hold and teach these] specific teachings and practices and will resist them in every way possible. They have broken communion with the catholic and apostolic faith.

I intentionally imported the language – “holding and teaching” – of Canon IV.1.1 that was ignored by the Righter Court. I also based broken communion on their actions. They have broken communion with the faith, and the role of orthodox leaders is to testify to a judgment that has already been made by God.

I presented this proposal to the Bishops’ Advisory Council at their meeting in Orlando on February 24-26, 1999. They listened respectfully but were clearly not of a mind to endorse such a change at this time. Since such excommunication of erring bishops has to come primarily from other bishops, I do not think it practical or responsible to ask other clergy and laity in the AAC to make a change in the charter at this time.

[52] Posted by Stephen Noll on 05-12-2010 at 11:40 PM • top

RE: ” The problem of “soft” bishops, however, is not just a matter of being personally nasty or nice but of ecclesiastical politics. If a bishop declares another bishop heretical or apostate, he must logically consider crossing borders, as the Global South bishops have done since 2003.”

I don’t see how a person declaring another bishop heretical or apostate means that such a bishop “must” “consider crossing borders” at all.

Of course, what’s actually being stated is “he must logically consider [leaving TEC]” since obviously “crossing borders” violates the canons of TEC and perforce means that the bishop will get inhibited and deposed.

Which gets us back to the same old chant—once a bishop discovers another bishop to be heretical or apostate they must Leave TEC Now.

I’d prefer a rephrase.  Once a bishop declares another bishop heretical or apostate he must either 1) decide that he can no longer live in the organization in which the heretical bishop resides or 2) decide that he will continue to live in the organization in which the heretical bishop resides.  Either decision then serves as the foundation for how he will respond tactically to the heretical bishop.

And so it has played out.

[53] Posted by Sarah on 05-13-2010 at 05:44 AM • top

#52. Stephen Noll,

If a bishop declares another bishop heretical or apostate, he must logically consider crossing borders, as the Global South bishops have done since 2003.

Are you saying that this is the only option? If a bishop declares another bishop heretical or apostate, wouldn’t due process be to move for presentment?

[54] Posted by Fr. Dale on 05-13-2010 at 06:25 AM • top

PaulA,
I could provide you with a rather long list of ‘novel innovations’ that are ‘required beliefs of the faithful’ who wish to remain in communion with Rome.  The Bishop of Rome hasn’t rejected the essentials, but he sure has tacked on an awful lot of fluff and error, such that the essentials are no longer considered the essentials.

[55] Posted by Bo on 05-13-2010 at 09:05 AM • top

#54

Are you saying that this is the only option? If a bishop declares another bishop heretical or apostate, wouldn’t due process be to move for presentment?

You are “logically” right, but after 1996 the Righter Presenters concluded that that option was off the table.

[56] Posted by Stephen Noll on 05-13-2010 at 09:50 AM • top

[51] PaulA.,

Thank you for the kind and generous remarks. With regard to our common joy at being Catholic, I am already with you on that my brother. For the first time in my life there is an inner confidence, not of my own making, that I am where our Lord wants me to be. All of the favorable aspects of our Church are comforting, inspiring and inspiriting. And I cannot imagine being anywere else, either, for as long as I live on this earth.

I have sent you a Private Message through this site, with some brief info on how to replicate the umlaut, and a bunch of other useful symbols and characters.

God’s blessings to you,
Keith Töpfer

[57] Posted by H. Potter (aka Martial Artist) on 05-13-2010 at 10:03 AM • top

Fr. Matt,
Thank you for taking the time and effort to write this piece, it is a clear analysis of what I have long thought was the major problem in the Church, or at least in our little corner of the Church.  There are times when you cannot take the easy road- the “I’m OK, you’re OK” approach to theology and church discipline.

Once upon a time, I sat a table with some officials from the diocese and some vestry members, and one of the people from the diocese came out with one of those “surely our Lord would want us to compromise on this issue, so why don’t we just….” 

The question that came to my mind was, “if our Lord wanted compromise, would He have chosen me to be part of this discussion?” It did not turn out to be a “nice” meeting. You can compromise between 2 legitimate positions, you cannot compromise when one position is legitimate, and the other is not. You can compromise on whether or not a chasuble should be worn.  You cannot compromise on whether Jesus physically rose from the dead.

[58] Posted by tjmcmahon on 05-13-2010 at 10:54 AM • top

#56. Stephen Noll,
I suppose there is a ton of ink on the Righter decision but it seems to me that the Righter decision wasn’t just a defeat for the orthodox. It became an important step toward the consecration of Gene Robinson. Were the bishops who rendered the 8-1 decision in favor of Righter representative of the House of Bishops at the time? If so, TEC was already lost.

[59] Posted by Fr. Dale on 05-13-2010 at 11:02 AM • top

I was committed to supporting and growing my own orthodox parish within the Episcopal Church; this created pressure on me minimize my characterization of the problems besetting the denomination.  I struggled with this delimna until about 2000, when circumstances got so bad within the denomination that it could not longer be sugar coated to others.

[60] Posted by Going Home on 05-13-2010 at 12:17 PM • top

“Wouldn’t due process be to move for presentment”?

Yes, and Dr. Noll has already stated(more politely than me) that the Righter trial demonstrated how effective THAT was going to be. 

And what you’re all describing is an organization that has lost the ability to discipline itself, hence its rot from within, which will continue till it’s dead. The demons laugh and the faithful Christians will eventually go somewhere else. 

TEC has been working towards its sad end for some time…and, it may not happen overnight, but it will happen, as it shows no desire whatsoever to change course.

[61] Posted by Anti-Harridan on 05-13-2010 at 12:31 PM • top

Under the revised provisions of the TEC canons before any bishop can be presented on the charge of “holding and teaching publically and privately, and advisedly, any doctrine contrary to that held by this Church” the House of Bishops must issue a Statement of Disassociation “from the doctrine alleged to be contrary to that held by this Church.” At least ten bishops must request such a statement. There is a number of other procedural requirements that must also be met in which the Presiding Bishop plays a major role. If the House of Bishops does not issue such a statement no further preceding may be taken against the bishop in question. Essentially the House of Bishops must consent to the presentment. As others have rightly observed, there is little likelihood of this happening.

[62] Posted by AnglicansAblaze on 05-13-2010 at 12:56 PM • top

Thank you Dr. Noll for chiming in.  I’ve printed out your 1999 paper and I welcome the opportunity to understand your perspective on sanctions against false religion and morality in TEC.

We seem to be getting to a new situation for the Communion Partner bishops where they may be in a position in which they can speak more directly against the heresy/apostasy of TEC than heretofore.

The GSE4 final communiqué exhibits a clear break with TEC until they repent.  It calls upon the ABC to follow through on previous agreements of the Instruments of Communion.  And it recognizes communion with the Communion Partner bishops and their dioceses.  It would thus seem that the CP bishops can speak truthfully about the errors in TEC and still be in communion with the majority of Anglicans in the world.

I would think that a CP bishop now could and should distance himself from heretical bishops in TEC.  The risk is that he could be disciplined out of TEC with all the pain of the consequences.  However, as Fr. Matt points out the soft approach will mislead the faithful and lead to the demise of the orthodox position in the diocese.

[63] Posted by hereistand on 05-13-2010 at 01:51 PM • top

Ummm, #63, NOT ALL of TECUSA needs to repent according to the Global South primates. They did recognize the orthodox who remain esp. Commuion Partner dioceses such as mine (South Carolina). Over all I agree with the views expressed here.

[64] Posted by Blue Cat Man on 05-13-2010 at 03:51 PM • top

#59
I wrote briefs for the Presenters in the Righter Trial and later revised them into two articles on The Righter Trial and Christian Doctrine and The Righter Trial and Church Discipline. The second article includes a brief analaysis of the Court decision.

[65] Posted by Stephen Noll on 05-13-2010 at 04:11 PM • top

#65. Stephen Noll,
Thanks for the links.

In an earlier submission to the Court, the Bishop claimed the right to break the Church’s discipline as an “apostolic pioneer.”

Those two words do not go together but neither do abortion and blessing. After reading the second article I can only wonder why things did not move along even faster than they did for the revisionists in TEC. It seems that the WWAC was to some extent a restraining force but now of course that is no longer an issue either.

[66] Posted by Fr. Dale on 05-13-2010 at 07:39 PM • top

There are are specific cases in which divorce and remarriage are permissible.  Even so, one has to admit that a good number of divorces and remarriages—even among the so-called orthodox—are not related to those reasons.  Further, scripture also sets a higher standard for leaders.  To look the other way on divorce/remarriage and yet hold homosexual men and women to a biblical standard of behavior is the worst kind of hypocrisy.  Scripture and tradition make serious demands of human beings regarding their sexuality.  That goes for gay and straight.

[67] Posted by AnnieV on 05-15-2010 at 07:25 PM • top

AnnieV,
We are agreed on the first three sentences.  The forth causes me just a tiny spot of trouble.  If the ‘rules’ were enforced with regard to to divorce and remarriage as a general principal, perhaps I’d get sympathy instead of suspicion.  However, just because I am divorced and remarried does not mean that I, nor the minister who presided at the wedding ‘looked the other way’.  Not all of us play ‘fast and lose’ with the rules we don’t like.

We were held to the biblical standard. 
If only that were always true. 
(Yes, I think that was your point, but as written sentence 4 kinda lumps me in with those who weren’t held to the standard).

[68] Posted by Bo on 05-15-2010 at 07:45 PM • top

I am in total agreement with you Fr. Matt on the very small box even orthodox Bishops are forced into to “keep the peace”.  In fact, we seem to have equated peace with salvation over and over again, when Scripture clearly teaches that orthodoxy does exist, and that Jesus came not to bring peace, but a sword.

Of course, this means that eventually even these orthodox bishops will be forced to embrace the theology of Brother Linus of Schultz, who on that fateful all Hallow’s Eve defined TEC in just a very few words when he said:

“It doesn’t matter what you believe, as long as you’re sincere.”

KTF!...mrb

[69] Posted by Mike Bertaut on 05-15-2010 at 08:10 PM • top

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