[Diocese of Georgia] Benhase Attempts To Soothe Parishioners Regarding the ABC’s Pentecost Letter

With +Benhase equating Glasspool’s consecration to border-crossings, is he saying that the former is just as bad as the latter?

So if the border-crossing stop, they’ll de-consecrate Glasspool? Have I got that straight?

My Rector says that the eCroziers go to the clergy, not to individual parishioners. However, they can all be seen in their glory, revealing the bishop’s intellectual depth and breadth, at:

http://georgia.anglican.org/?page_id=173

Indeed, a feast.

You can try to equate consecration of homosexual bishops with “border-crossings” and this may play well to the TEC crowd.  However, no one outside the AC really (a) cares, (b) understands or (c) views the issue of border-crossings as and ecumenical issue.  Even if the ABC removed one or two of the Global South Provinces from ecumenical discussions its not likely to “smart” as the removal of TEC representation.  This is a direct threat to the legitimacy of TEC, and the only type of discipline that they respect.

The polity of the archbishops is to recognize scripture and tredition. That puts them at odds with TEC.

The Communion operates in very different ways depending on the particular constituent Church. The Episcopal Church has a very democratic polity while other Churches in the Communion have highly hierarchical polities where archbishops alone make decisions for the entire Church.

In case you didn’t catch the thinly-disguised implication, he is suggesting that the ‘problem’ is a lack of democratic development in ‘certain parts’ of the communion where stuffy old reactionaries deliberately thwart the enlightened will of the masses by clinging to power.  And if they only wait it out, the dawn of progress will eventually arrive, and drive out the stuffy old reactionaries just as light drives away darkness.  Sort of like in the United States where the will of the enlightened masses was enforced by driving out all those masses who didn’t agree.

Ah, progress!

carl

I would love it if the Anglican Communion structures were truly democratic - where ASA would determine the number of bishops invited to Lambeth and the number of delegates to the ACC.  You could get one representative (plus your Primate) for every 500,000 ASA or portion thereof.  You could get one bishop for every 50,000 ASA invited to Lambeth.

Of course TEC would never go for such a true democracy as it would tend to elect the “wrong” people.

YBIC,
Phil Snyder

The democratic polity of DGA is demonstrated by the fact that the majority of the diocese is opposed to the ordinations of Robinson and Glasspool. The bishop does not represent their views.

The democratic polity of DGA is demonstrated by the fact that the majority of the diocese is opposed to the ordinations of Robinson and Glasspool. The bishop does not represent their views.

Then why is the “majority” writing checks to those who opposed their views? This does not add up for me.
Intercessor

#7 Pb,

Maybe he’s a Democrat (somebody out there knows the answer). Wouldn’t that be democratic enough?

Sorry for straying off topic, please don’t follow up.

<<The Episcopal Church has a very democratic polity >>
If they’re oh-so democratic, then what’s their problem with those who have democratically voted to leave?  I noticed something as a kid watching the Olympics: the nations that had “democratic” in their names, were the ones that weren’t at all democratic. Therefore, I suggest we make everyone happy and change TEC’s name to the Democratic People’s Episcopal “Church”.

“DPEC?”  Yeah, that looks about right.

The only persons with a vote in the Church are the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  Since the Beginning, every vote has been unanimous, as they between them only cast one.

Any votes, constitutions, canons or polities created by human beings that in any way, shape or form disagree with the One vote, are in error.

The Word will be here, long after TEC votes itself into oblivion. 

And in any case, it is organized not as a democracy, but as a socialist republic.  Each level of hierarchy votes for the next level up. Can’t have the riff raff deciding anything. Else you and I would have had some say in who the PB is. Parish votes reps to the diocese who in turn vote reps to GC which in turn determines who will rule.  And yes, rule is the word I meant to use.  If you can ignore the canons and do whatever you want, you are not a “president” or a “presiding” whatever, or an “executive council” but a dictator or oligarchy.  Wondering now if the term limit will hold up, or if maybe KJS will decide to succeed herself.  Assuming, of course, that she does not succeed ++Rowan, as appears to be the current goal.

Unless Parliament has changed the rules….which I doubt they have done….an archbishop of the Church of England must be a subject of Her Majesty the Queen.  That leaves Mrs Schori out in the cold.

“It’s the pledges that are our symbol of unity in diversity.”

Consise.

That made my day.

Does anyone have an up to date list of Georgia congregations that have left TEC? Any new additions that can be talked about?

Going home, the only church I am aware of that has left the Diocese of Georgia is Christ Church, Savannah, The Mother Church of Georgia.  No other churches have left due to the scorched earth litigation policy of the Presiding Bishop.  There may be others that are considering it, however most of the clergy in the Diocese are Institutionally loyal and probably won’t have the guts to leave.

15…St. John’s Savannah, a cardinal parish, is a conservative high-church 1928 parish, but has a historic building and too much institutional baggage.  If people left there, it would be analogous the group that left Christ Church San Antonio.  The best candidate for bishop in GA was Gahan+, but +Benhase won…alas.

Deacon Phil #6,it is that sort of setup that keeps the Methodist Church out of our trouble—their growth and numbers are in the parishes that hold to traditional views of Christian doctrine, and they are represented as such on larger scales in regional, national, and international meetings.  Giving the same democratic weight(at the GC level, or even above) to dying Dioceses like Newark that is had by thriving dioceses like South Carolina has helped sound TEC’s death knell. 

That’s a roundabout way of saying I agree with you.

+Benhase writes:

1. “The Archbishop of Canterbury has proposed, and the Secretary General of the Communion has acted, to withdraw our Church’s representatives from a couple of ecumenical committees, or in one case, to reduce our Church’s representative to that of “consultant.””

That seems about right - its a slap on the wrist.

2. “What strikes me as unfair is that other provinces (Nigeria, Uganda, Kenya, Rwanda, & Southern Cone) that have had recurring violations of the moratorium on cross-diocesan incursions for the past seven years are not being addressed as well. We will have to wait and see if this double standard persists.”

Right, so now the cross-diocesan excursions which were and are purely a reaction to gross and open apostasy by leaders of TEC, are to be viewed as morally equivalent to that same gross and open apostasy. That’s logical (not!)

3. “For example, The Compass Rose Society, which is a wonderful organization that supports the ministry of the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Anglican Communion, has nineteen board members, the majority of whom are from the Episcopal Church. Are we not being asked to withdraw from the Society because the board members are a prime source of funds?”

Now, this does seem like a fair question. What’s the answer, Canon Kearon?

4. The Episcopal Church has a very democratic polity while other Churches in the Communion have highly hierarchical polities where archbishops alone make decisions for the entire Church.

This is so funny I thought we had switched to an episode of Fawlty Towers. TEC democratic???? And orthodox churches dominated by autocratic archbishops???? Side-splitting…

I’m trying to get this right - the Bishop is in favor throwing more TEC representatives off bodies involved with the Communion?

Why the ABC hasn’t done more is something that many of us have been wondering about too. Glad to see the Bishop is finally thinking about this too. I’m sure if he like to write with his ideas to Lambeth Palace they would be dealt with as they deserve.

How’s this working for you Bishop.

People, let the Bishop know what you think…swamp him with calls, letters, email…let him know what you think and what you are willing to accept and reject.

Well, the only thing that matters—and I do mean The Only Thing—in these dioceses, including my own, is for parishioners to withdraw money and radically reduce pledging.

That is the Only Thing that will make a bishop care about what his people think.

Exactly, Sarah!  Right smack on the button!  If anyone thinks that bishops don’t think about the money angle and how it affects their diocese, think again.  People talk through their checks….and the lack of them on Sunday mornings….and the bishops know that.

Here we are talking about a diocese of small congregations in South Georgia. It will be interesting to see if there is any realization of this fact after a year of annual visitations.

Thanks, Seminarian, I thought I had heard of another recent defection, but it may have been in another diocese in the state.

Sarah is of course exactly right. Money is the only thing that matters at this point. The challenge, as has been discussed here at length, is how to effectively cause your church to give less to the Diocese. If you can convince your parish to cut off the flow to the Diocese, great, but in my experience that is easier said than done for several reasons. For most who stay, the only truly effective option is to just give less, or nothing, to their parish, and divert their giving to Christian ministries that do not have to pay a Diocesan assessment or pledge.  This is no longer an issue for me, but it’s too bad there isn’t a parachurch organization set up specifically for faithful Episcopalians to send their tithe.

GH# 25
You might be thinking of the overwhelming majority of St. Thomas’ in Thomasville, who left their building to form Trinity Anglican Church.  Otherwise, Seminarian is correct only Christ Church, Savannah has left thus far.