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[BUMPED] Episcopal Flagplanters: An Action Idea Regarding the Non-Canonical Actions of the HOB

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 • 8:24 pm

[I am bumping this post in case this action idea has slipped your mind during the site revision.]

From Rob Roy, who is my hero:

Anthony and RomeAnglican, I have written every newspaper reporter that has written on the so-called deposition of Bp Schofield about the deficiencies in the process. Have you? It would be helpful in the spokesman for the true diocese of San Joaquin to speak out. But then again, suppose a stink is made and the usurpers bite the bullet and accept the downsides of a re-do deposition as outlined by RomeAnglican on his blog. This would lose the issue for the eventual lawsuits. . . .

. . . Sarah, almost all the newspaper have a “Contact us” link or they simply give the reporter’s email address at the end of the story. I simply check google news for “Episcopal”, find the stories about +JDS and write to the reporter stating the the reporter needs to print a correction stating that +JDS was, in fact, not deposed and give them a link to the living church website article. Pretty easy thing for all the flag-planters out there.

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Well, I am blushing. When Sarah came out to Colorado and gave lectures on her excellent book, we had a small group exercise to determine what kind of reasserter we were: flag planters, spiders, etc.

Flag planters get up at meetings and say, “This is wrong. This must change.” They don’t tend to get elected to office. Flag planters are the ones that tend to get shot in battle, too. Sarah told me that I was most definitely a flag planter, one that would like plant his flag right into the chest of the nearest reappraiser. That got a chuckle from me.

[1] Posted by robroy on 03-16-2008 at 03:41 PM • top

Newspapers aren’t enough.  Every bishop, every delegate, every Anglican Province.

[2] Posted by AndrewA on 03-16-2008 at 04:10 PM • top

Another thing that I do is when I see an article that obviously the reporter didn’t just talk to EpiscoPravda but researched and presented a balanced article is write thanking the the reporter. Also, if Kendall or SF cite it, I will write and give a link so that the reporter can check out the discussion (and see that there is a whole orthodox Anglican world out there).

I agree with Anthony and AndrewA. It is quite easy to get email addresses off the internet. One should be writing to all the bishops. (Of course, that will quickly get you on the “Do not open” list in Montana.)

[3] Posted by robroy on 03-16-2008 at 06:10 PM • top

Oops! Been awhile since posting ...I need to brush up on my htmls….
My sincere apologies! Mea Culpa! smile

[4] Posted by TLDillon on 03-16-2008 at 06:20 PM • top

I posted this on a nother thread the, “Breaking: Deposition Votes Failed to Achieve Canonically Required Majority (+Cox and +Schofield”

Well, it was a glorious Palm Sunday at the Cathedral this am with Bishop John-David leading the serivces and to all’s surprise and wonderment at the audacity of Jerry Lamb sitting up in the front row!!!!!  When during the annoucement time our Dean made a clarification reference about our beloved Bishop not being deposed due to a “mistake”<b> on the HoB part and the fact that we unlike them who go about saying <b>“we follow our own interpretations and meanings”,>, but rather we in this Anglican Diocese follow God’s word, written rules, and essentially our own Bishop, John-David Schofield.  Then he asked if we would like to express our love for our Bishop and show him how much we appreciate his godly leadership in putting Jesus Christ first no matter what and following Him, our Lord and Savior! And the crowd that was there this am stood in applause for Bishop John-David right in front of Jerry Lamb! One would think that that standing ovaition would send a very clear message…..We will follow Jesus Christ the lover of our souls and we will follow Jesus Christ and our Bishop and you Jerry Lamb are not one we will ever follow!

The news media was there and I am quite sure that the Remain Episcopal people called them to make sure they were there to record us being taken over by Jerry Lamb. Alas, that didn’t happen and quite frankly as usual their attempts to disparge us Orthodox Christians in San Joaquin and our Bishop have yet again back-fired on them.

A few parishioners were interviewed and some went up to let them, the news media, know that Bishop Schofield indeed was not deposed due to the vote failing because the PB & her HoB failed to get the proper amount of votes and misinterpreted as usual the canons!

I am quite sure that Ron Orozco a Fresno Bee writer who seems only to interview the Remain Episcopal people will no doubt be trying to get some sort of interview from them in the next few days to get their <b>spin on things!

[5] Posted by TLDillon on 03-16-2008 at 06:20 PM • top

May I be the first, then, to welcome you and JDS back into The Episcopal Church? smile

[6] Posted by Vintner on 03-16-2008 at 06:28 PM • top

ROLTFMBO!!!!!! smile
Not quite Smuggs! But, you may by all means continue to live in your fantasy world! Who am I to keep you from it!

But I can say that there were those who more than likely went up to Jerry Lamb and welcomed him to the Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin! smile

[7] Posted by TLDillon on 03-16-2008 at 06:32 PM • top

Hey, ODC, I missed your postings for the past few days!  Glad I could get you laughing.

This is off-topic but, while I’ve got you smiling…

Check out the photo from here:

Now tell me if the outfit of the person on the left isn’t something you’d most likely seen worn on a person asking if you would like fries with your soft drink… smile

Now back to your regularly scheduled program…

[8] Posted by Vintner on 03-16-2008 at 06:35 PM • top

Well Smuggs…I must admit I am really on the floor LOL now! That person looks more like a Gay Pride promoter than the Queen to the King of Burgers!
But I did have to do a double take on the Bishop to the right of the Gay Pride Mitre. He looks an awful lot like a priest I know that is serving in Gilroy! Scary…very scary! smile
Thanks for sharing!

[9] Posted by TLDillon on 03-16-2008 at 06:40 PM • top


Wouldn’t that outfit (from the picture) belong better in the circus instead of a church?

Lookis kind of clowny to me.

[10] Posted by seminarian on 03-16-2008 at 06:42 PM • top

ODC, Have you seen the account by the Episcopal News Service?  What do you make of this claim that the church applauded Rev. Lamb?

“Applause erupted during the introduction of Lamb, who retired as bishop of the Diocese of Northern California in 2007 and most recently served as interim bishop in the Diocese of Nevada.”  (ENS today)

[11] Posted by Paula on 03-16-2008 at 06:56 PM • top

Well Paula,
That is a flat out lie! I was there…. I witnessed and participated in the applauding and it wasn’t for Lamb but For Bishop John-David! And since we have our services on CD I can prove it! For anyone wishing to hear it for themselves call the Cathedral Office and request a copy of the recorded services of today March 16th 2008 Palm Sunday and liten for your selves!

[12] Posted by TLDillon on 03-16-2008 at 07:02 PM • top

Paula, look again.  They aren’t talking about the same church.

“Continuing Episcopalians filled Fresno’s Holy Family Church on March 14 for a get-acquainted meeting with Bishop Jerry Lamb in preparation for the March 29 special convention where they will be asked to confirm him as their provisional bishop. ”

[13] Posted by AndrewA on 03-16-2008 at 07:02 PM • top

Basically, this boils down to the fact that we are all worshipping in a happy-clappy Church…

[14] Posted by Vintner on 03-16-2008 at 07:04 PM • top

Paula, the ENS story is not from today’s services.

That is some picture of KJS, she doesn’t look too happy.
The outfit is something too, and here I was thinking these is no way she could outdo that failed design for Gandalf’s robe in the LOTR movie that she wore to her consecration.
BTW…is that supposed to be a rainbow or a test pattern on her miter?
Maybe TEC Bishops will now have flat screen monitors in their miters for bored parishioners to watch tv during the sermons like kids in minivans?

[15] Posted by Rocks on 03-16-2008 at 07:05 PM • top

Paula…You need to get your news stories straight! See below:

Continuing Episcopalians filled Fresno’s Holy Family Church on March 14 for a get-acquainted meeting with Bishop Jerry Lamb in preparation for the March 29 special convention where they will be asked to confirm him as their provisional bishop.

Applause erupted during the introduction of Lamb, who retired as bishop of the Diocese of Northern California in 2007 and most recently served as interim bishop in the Diocese of Nevada.

That was one ofthe Remain Episcopal churches that did a meet and greet on Friday the 14th.
Not today at the Cathedral for Palm Sunday!

[16] Posted by TLDillon on 03-16-2008 at 07:05 PM • top

Jerry Lamb was never introduced and only a small collection of clergy knew who he was.  GREAT SERVICE led by the only Bishop of San Joaquin John-David Schofield.
Has anyone noticed the HOB has a Wolfe who is a lamb and a Lamb who is a wolf.

[17] Posted by Intercessor on 03-16-2008 at 07:06 PM • top

“Why are there so many…miters with rainbows?  And what’s on the other side? ~ +Kermit the Frog

[18] Posted by Vintner on 03-16-2008 at 07:15 PM • top

This going more OT I know but I can’t help it sorry:

“But when King Jesus comes to town, no police or soldiers line the streets; only people ready and eager for a different ruler,” she said. “What contrast between one who seeks and needs protection, and one who comes undefended. What contrast between the powers of this world, clamoring for an unchanging status quo, and the powers from above that urge change toward that divine vision of salaam and shalom.

From KJS’ Palm Sunday Sermon in Jerusalem.
Apparently it’s not reasserters vs. reappraisers but the “powers of this world vs the power from above”.....change is divine don’t ya know?

[19] Posted by Rocks on 03-16-2008 at 07:17 PM • top

...powers from above that urge change toward that divine vision of salaam and shalom.

I think I am going to hurl.

[20] Posted by robroy on 03-16-2008 at 07:25 PM • top

Wouldn’t that outfit (from the picture) belong better in the circus instead of a church? ~ seminarian

Off topic, last time, and I’m done for the night…

No.  Clowns have dignity.

[21] Posted by Vintner on 03-16-2008 at 07:29 PM • top

Yes, I see now that I had not noticed the different location where Lamb was introduced and applauded.  Of course, that gathering of the still-Episcopal group is the only one that the ENS would be likely to mention.  I’m glad to hear that the larger body (with Bp. Schofield) did NOT applaud Lamb.  (I had supposed that ENS was just lying.)  Does it seem significant that Lamb did not make any move to assert himself in Bp. Schofield’s service and was not (as you say) introduced?

[22] Posted by Paula on 03-16-2008 at 07:30 PM • top

Yes Paula, I think it says alot of both men. First that Bishop Schofield is very much the Bishop of the Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin and is continuing to shepherd his clergy and laity in the way of Christ and the Holy Scriptures no matter what TEc, KJS, DBB says, and what Jerry Lamb’s presence in his Cathedral on Palm Sunday after making appearances in other Remain Episcopal might seem to imply. It also shows our hospitality and polity to one sho is coming to us as a wolf dressed in sheeps clothing.
Secondly, is shows that Jerry Lamb was clearly there for intimidation purposes and only God knows what else. But again, our message was clear!

[23] Posted by TLDillon on 03-16-2008 at 07:39 PM • top

Unbelievable! KJS’ Palm Sunday sermon is a must read.
She directly compares President Bush to King Herod!

[24] Posted by Rocks on 03-16-2008 at 07:44 PM • top

I certainly never said, and I haven’t read anyone else sayng that Dr. Lamb or anyone else that KJS may send in isn’t welcome to come and worship with us and hear the Word of God preached. What I did say and meant is that Dr. Lamb or any other of her bishops she may send in is not welcome to come here and try to be our Bishop! We already have one, Bishop John-david Schofield.

[25] Posted by TLDillon on 03-16-2008 at 07:52 PM • top

Rocks says

Unbelievable! KJS’ Palm Sunday sermon is a must read.
She directly compares President Bush to King Herod!

You’ve got to be kidding.  Let’s look at this.

When I left the office that afternoon on my way to the airport, the driver told me we were going to have to take a different route. The President was in town. That was the reason for the big gathering of police—they had been getting their instructions. When George Bush comes to town, the police come out to pave the way, to make sure the streets are free from obstructions and the dissenters are kept at bay. The police line the street to prevent violence—and our President, whoever he is, seems to generate a lot of violent opposition. It seems to be true of most government leaders—witness the number of assassination attempts in recent years around the world.

Today we remember the arrival of another head of state. When King Herod came to Jerusalem at Passover, he used to have a similar kind of armed guard. But when King Jesus comes to town, no police or soldiers line the streets; only people ready and eager for a different ruler. Crowds clamor, hoping for a kingdom of justice, praising God, looking for an end to oppression. This is no military leader riding in a tank, or political despot in an armored limousine. Jesus comes openly and undefended, and the crowds respond by lining his path with branches of palm. That palm is called phoenix in Greek, a name that also points to the radical change of death and resurrection. Truly a different ruler is coming, promising radical and abundant change—the kind of change that prophets have taught us to seek for thousands of years.

Rocks, that fire won’t light.  The only connection that she is making is that both Bush and Herod, as public figures, were/are in need of protection from the crowds.  Jesus, on the other hand, rode into Jerusalem without needing such protection.  She is not saying that Bush is like Herod in the way that your post is implying.

[26] Posted by Vintner on 03-16-2008 at 08:03 PM • top

Really Smuggs?
and when just a little later she says this:

For this prince of peace will bring a kingdom that transcends earthly grasping, whether of power, wealth, or geopolitical control.

Are we not supposed to be thinking of the only world leader she bothers to mention, George Bush?
Isn’t she suggesting with her sermon that Bush’s policies are the same as Herod’s?
To me it seems she does.

[27] Posted by Rocks on 03-16-2008 at 08:12 PM • top

I’d call that an equivalency, Smuggs.  The mention of Bush was completely gratuitous and didn’t advance the Presiding Plaintiff’s argument about the contrast between Herod and Jesus.  It was yet another southpaw smear from a supposedly “courageous” harridan who wouldn’t say a discouraging word about Fidel Castro.

[28] Posted by Jeffersonian on 03-16-2008 at 08:14 PM • top

Yes, really.  Have you ever preached a sermon before?  Look, I don’t like the lady but you’re really pulling at straws here.  She opens with a real life illustration with a real life president.  She then goes from there to make her point that I mentioned before.  How many world leaders did she encounter that day?  I count one.  You’re reading WAY too much into this.

Illustration to prove my point:  “It’s been said that preaching a sermon is like throwing a stick into a pack of dogs.  The one it hits is the one that’s going to yell.”

Question to you: Do I mean by this saying that this sermon touched a nerve with you because you are sensitive about hearing any liberal religious figure use the name of George Bush, especially in the sermon where the despot Herod is mentioned?  Or did I just call you a dog?

[29] Posted by Vintner on 03-16-2008 at 08:18 PM • top

Jeffersonian, I will grant you that we both would agree with where her political sympathies lie.  I just don’t think it was as clear a connection as Rocks does.  In fact, I don’t think there was a connection at all.

[30] Posted by Vintner on 03-16-2008 at 08:20 PM • top

Then what purpose did the mention of Bush and his motorcade serve if not to draw equivalency between Herod and Bush?  There is no other purpose.

[31] Posted by Jeffersonian on 03-16-2008 at 08:21 PM • top

The story about Bush was the opening illustration.  Where was she preaching?  Jerusalem.  Who would have had to had a guard going through Jerusalem back in Jesus’ time?  Herod.  Case closed.

[32] Posted by Vintner on 03-16-2008 at 08:26 PM • top

If by nerve you meant my funny bone I would agree Smuggs.
I pointed out the comparison not because of the lame political points but because it’s ridiculous.
I’m no fan of George Bush but I don’t think he’s comparable to Herod, even just to illustrate a point.

[33] Posted by Rocks on 03-16-2008 at 08:27 PM • top

It was indeed an illustration, but of what?  We get that in the next paragraph: Herod.  QED.

Rocks is spot-on.

[34] Posted by Jeffersonian on 03-16-2008 at 08:37 PM • top

Folks, this thread has gone seriously off-topic.  It’s about conservative Episcopal flagplanters taking some actions regarding the non-canonical vote of our HOB.

In light of that, I’ve reposted the Primatial contact information:

[35] Posted by Sarah on 03-16-2008 at 08:57 PM • top

the item I find most objectionable about her Palm Sunday sermon was her assertion “...powers of the world clamor for an unchanging status quo and the powers from above that urge change” has been suggested we see and object to that which is most objectionable…well I hear her saying that her outrageous changes within TEC are from above whereas my wanting to see things remain Biblically correct are in fact are a result of the “powers of the world”...once again she is living in opposite world…

[36] Posted by ewart-touzot on 03-16-2008 at 09:45 PM • top

Dean Robert Munday’s blog site does an excellent job of pulling the arguments together—mostly from Stand Firm commenters.

This is a great link to which you might refer potential news writers—concise and authoritative stuff, including the historical analysis of Canon IV.9 by Chancellor.

Great idea, Rob Roy!  Shine the great light of truth on evil and watch ‘em scurry into their holes.

[37] Posted by hanks on 03-16-2008 at 11:28 PM • top

So far I’ve been unable to find any mention at all of the HOB votes on the websites for either of the Seattle newspapers (I don’t subscribe), other nearby newspapers, the three network radio/TV stations, or the local NPR radio station. If you’re in the Seattle area and saw a story about the votes please PM me with the contact info for the reporter. I’d like to plant a flag.

[38] Posted by kyounge1956 on 03-17-2008 at 02:19 AM • top

What a great idea!  I have e-mailed my contact at the Virginian-Pilot.  Am hoping that he will find this story interesting since SoVa’s interim bishop is connected to the story fairly closely.  Bishop Buchanan is the HoB Parliamentarian who worked with Beers to determine that the vote was in line with the canons.  Hopefully, this local connection will make the story even more interesting to the Pilot.

[39] Posted by Eddie Swain on 03-17-2008 at 09:37 AM • top

Look at who is writing reporters to correct their stories…here. Our own brother Rabbit! And he got an email response on his first try…here. I have written many, many reporters and gotten a handful of responses.

[40] Posted by robroy on 03-26-2008 at 10:09 PM • top

What you need is a frontpage story that cannot be ignored. Sorry to deflate the intentions, but a letter written to a liberal publication will not get much play. You’re lucky if it gets burried on page D13 in the editoral section below Dear Abby and the comics.

[41] Posted by Festivus on 03-27-2008 at 09:32 AM • top

The Anglican District of the Midwest (CANA) has launched a new website


[42] Posted by MidwestAnglican on 03-27-2008 at 03:53 PM • top


You are indeed a “flag-planter,” and a hero in my eyes as well.  Maybe you should consider resigning from the NRAFC and founding the RRFC (RobRoy Fan Club of course).  I’d join in a heartbeat.

I love the practical way you think.

David Handy+

[43] Posted by New Reformation Advocate on 03-28-2008 at 12:45 PM • top

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