Total visitors right now: 88

Click here to check your private inbox.

Welcome to Stand Firm!

Dan Martins: Repeating Lies Does Not Add Up to Truth

Sunday, March 30, 2008 • 4:41 am

Repeating Lies Does Not Add Up to Truth

From Episcopal Life’s coverage of today’s proceedings in San Joaquin:

Jefferts Schori had told the participants earlier that the convention had been called because Bishop John-David Schofield had been deposed or removed from his diocesan seat after having abandoned the communion of the Episcopal Church, and because the Standing Committee removed because it took actions “which violated their ability to hold office in this church.”

The first count is debatable, since the deposition of Bishop Schofield was canonically flawed—a reality clearly evident to any rational and literate person—and the second count is simply a lie. I hate to make such a bald statement, but there’s no way around it. If the Standing Committee took any such disqualifying action, no one has yet named it. Quite the contrary, they took actions which clearly demonstrated their intention to act as the Standing Committee of the Episcopal Diocese.


22 Comments • Print-friendlyPrint-friendly w/commentsShare on Facebook

It is simple…

There are no degrees of honesty.


[1] Posted by Tom Dennis on 03-30-2008 at 05:38 AM • top

Martins is appalled that the institution formerly known as ECUSA “lies” - where has he been for the past fifteen years?  Lying has been SOP for Presiding Bishops from Browning on; and it infects far too many of the members of the present HOB. The articles in Episcopal Pravda have consistently lacked any relationship with truth. Martins may “hate” to call lying lying, but lying is the characteristic behavior of the institution he prefers to cling to.

[2] Posted by Dan Crawford on 03-30-2008 at 05:42 AM • top

What say you ACI? How about the rest of the Institutionalists out there? Please explain again to us moronic untermenchen out here that heresy, apostacy, lies, savage persecution of old men, law suits against laymen and other Christians, theft of property, elevation of sexual deviants, contempt for the rule of law, perversion of the Canons, and all the other Hellish attributes of the Schori/Beers TEC, are preferable to schism.

How much more of this can you endure? Do you think the outrages will be over after their Potemkin Village Diocese of SJ is created? Do you really think Anglican Christians will wait until 2015 for a Covenant?

I am asking for Institutionalists to step to the plate and disavow their enabling submission to the Episcopal Church. You simply cannot any longer ignore what these people have done, are doing and will do. Your continued submission to Evil that the institution has become harms us all.

I am not saying for all to leave it now. I’m not. I am staying in place so as to be better positioned to help in its demise and welcome the New Anglican Reformation that will take its place. I do so, holding my nose, and with a clear consience.

[3] Posted by teddy mak on 03-30-2008 at 07:02 AM • top

The murderous deed is done.
Smeagol has put on the ring.
Gollum will slowly emerge.
The Rabbit.

[4] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 03-30-2008 at 07:15 AM • top

The Truth is shaped by
My desire for power
I say what truth is.  (TEC Leadership, 1960-present)

Sorry to Haiku so early in the morning, but this is better for me than ranting.

Phil Snyder

[5] Posted by Philip Snyder on 03-30-2008 at 07:36 AM • top

I believe that there are stages leaders go through in our journey through the Episcopal Church which I mused about here.  Dan is a leader who has believed that the structures were in place to hold the Presiding Bishop and others accountable.  When we realize that they are not playing by the same rules (oh, they have rules - but they are unspoken rules which is a sign of that the system itself is dysfunctional and toxic).  When we begin to understand that we are all not playing by the same rules (and as the Presiding Bishop reminded us early on - language (which would include the Canons since they are words) are metaphor and metaphors can be changed.  That attitude as well as an attitude of elitism permeates the inner circle of the Episcopal Church.

Who is in the inner circle?  Among those in the inner circle are those financing what the Presiding Bishop euphemistically calls “the mission strategy” of 815.  Where is the money coming from to finance all these extra expenses, like conducting lawsuits and creating shadow dioceses with puppet bishops?  It’s so shocking that we can’t really believe we are seeing this with our own eyes?  We too are like the frog who has jumped into a pot of water on a stove and slowly boils to death - when do we jump?

Case in point - just before Schori got on the plane to Lodi, she authorized David Booth Beers to file a motion to begin discovery on her lawsuits against the churches here in Virginia.  She did this even though the judge has not yet ruled on the Virginia Division Statute. What message this sends to the judge is open to speculation - but it was a mean, mean, mean thing to do.  It shows a contempt for the process and an arrogant assumption that she is a victor over the Commonwealth of Virginia’s Division Statute and the judge is taking too long for her taste. She could be right on all accounts - but it’s not the Virginia way.

We should be sitting at a negotiating table - as was planned until Schori and Booth Beers intervened.  We should be trying to prayerfully work through how we can remain in as closest communion as possible, as Bishop Lee once said.  But that is of no interest to this Presiding Bishop - I think her actions yesterday show us this. 

In the story of Dr. Seuss’ Yertle the Turtle, Yertle was able to get away with his accumulation of power until one of the turtles holding up his thrown had enough, the turtle named Mack.

Perhaps Dan is our Mack - we know how much he loves and respects the Episcopal Church, we know that about John Howe and Mark Lawrence and Kendall Harmon and Sarah Hey and many many others - even those who are in exile love this church.  All those Macks out there who are struggling to hold up the throne only to realize as Mack did that these efforts by the Presiding Bishop and her lawyer are doing more and more damage to the church’s structures and integrity and witness in their efforts to shore up their throne, primatial as it now appears to be.

My prayers are with Dan and others inside the structures of TEC, that their voices crying out in the desert will be heard.  “Look to the east,” Gandolf said, “Look to the east.”


[6] Posted by BabyBlue on 03-30-2008 at 08:13 AM • top

Posted before linking the Five Stages to Decision which is here.  It’s based on the stages of grief.


[7] Posted by BabyBlue on 03-30-2008 at 08:16 AM • top

The Ents of Virginia have been in lamentation about the fallen bridges and the violated boundaries and the naked betrayal for oh so long now. When will they wake up to the decimation of the forest, leave their lamentations (and yours) behind, and begin their assault on Saruman? When will they say, “This is War!”
The Rabbit.

[8] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 03-30-2008 at 08:41 AM • top

bb, discovery is “mean, mean, mean”?  Why?

[9] Posted by DavidH on 03-30-2008 at 08:49 AM • top

Don’t worry…as soon as TEO’s “STFU Canon” is passed, Dan will see the laser dot on his chest, too.  Or maybe criticizing Comrade Kate these days amounts to abandonment of communion…perhaps we ought to ask Bishop Cox about that.

[10] Posted by Jeffersonian on 03-30-2008 at 11:09 AM • top

As of this morning I became a Member of Christ the King Anglican Church (The Way Forward) Winchester, Tennessee.  I have stood firm for all together too long. I will no longer be a part of this mendacity that calls itself TEC. Fr. Dan is absolutely right that in “Repeating lies does not add up truth.”  If you happen to be orthodox they will try to make your life miserable. I desire to worship the risen Christ and not have to worry about all of the other non essential things. I had become so embroiled in the muck and mire of TEC, I was beginning to lose sight of the goal - the risen Lord!

[11] Posted by Denis on 03-30-2008 at 01:16 PM • top

The Virginia circuit judge all ready told TEC once that he would not rule on discovery until after he rules on the 57-9.  TEC is so confident that they are going to win on the Division Statute that they are ignoring the judge’s earlier ruling and slapping his hand hard for taking so long to rule.  Perhaps they are confidently correct - a ruthless high powered-type thing to do and this of course is Virginia, gotta wonder about that.  And of course - we are talking about churches, for God’s sake.  Why such a ferocious move late Friday afternoon as they got on the plane to Lodi?

But if they are so confident - why are they pushing for discovery against the judge’s ruling - they seem to be in an awful big rush, as these events in Lodi also confirm.  What is this rush all about?

Gotta wonder how their money supply is going - it’s a complete mystery to us all since we have no idea where the money they are using to pay for all these lawsuits and all these lawyers and to prop up shadow dioceses and shadow congregations is coming from - where are they getting all that money?  Is it an unending pipeline or is the well going dry?

It has to be about the money - it’s always about the money.  As Bob says, “Money doesn’t talk, it swears.”


[12] Posted by BabyBlue on 03-30-2008 at 01:26 PM • top

But if they are so confident - why are they pushing for discovery against the judge’s ruling - they seem to be in an awful big rush, as these events in Lodi also confirm.  What is this rush all about?

I wonder, too, BB.  Could there be rumblings of a Lambeth smack-down for TEO, pulling the Anglican rug from under them?  They might be trying to consolidate their plundering beforehand.

[13] Posted by Jeffersonian on 03-30-2008 at 01:33 PM • top

As Bob says,

“Money doesn’t talk, it swears.”

and going on (slightly emended),

Obscenity Outright lies, who really cares?

The Rabbit.

[14] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 03-30-2008 at 01:54 PM • top

BB: It is possible, in fact probable, that
they (TEC) have concluded they are on a loosing track and that they must consolidate and occupy whatever can be done quickly before the rulings start coming down.

Discovery is often used as a weapon by people like Schori and Beers, especially when the targets are not wealthy. It is intimidation, not discovery they are after. They want to terrify you, BB, into submission, to make you spend money you can’t afford. I think this is a summary of their entire tactical profile in the Virginia cases. They joined lay persons in the suit so as to threaten them with bankruptcy if they continued to support their escaped parishes. Even revisionists agree that the case of TEC in Virginia is anything but a sure thing, and I think Schori and Beers know it.

This Discovery thing is sure to grate on the judge, not wise if you actually think you will have to appear before him. Thus it indicates not confidence, but fear, on their part. It’s entirely possible that they have concluded they could loose, and are sending out the knee cappers to scare off the weak links. It’s what thugs do.

The money? They have about $200 million to waste in trust funds alone I am told. They got plenty cash to pay Cousin Vinny he should break ya legs, know wad I mean?

I still think GAFCON is poisonous to their Virginia case. It will be proof positive of an actual division.

[15] Posted by teddy mak on 03-30-2008 at 03:06 PM • top

You said it better than I could, teddy mak.  I keep praying that amongst our adversaries there will rise a Saul who will become a Paul.


[16] Posted by BabyBlue on 03-30-2008 at 03:54 PM • top

It’s possible I’m missing it (would it kill the ADV to put the legal documents in chronological order?), but it does not appear anyone has the discovery motion posted.  What was their rationale, bb?  Presumably they had some reasons to ask the judge to reconsider? 

Those posting here might want to consider that there’s no conspiracy at work and that the lawyers just want to have enough time for discovery.  Trial was set for October back in January.  Discovery in a large, complicated, and high-stakes case like this wouldn’t be the type of thing you accomplish in a few months.

teddy mak, 15, GAFCON is irrelevant to Virginia.  IIRC, it’s not even mentioned in the briefs, let alone put in evidence.  Whatever his ruling is, the judge is not going to base it on the latest Anglican news or blog chatter.

[17] Posted by DavidH on 03-30-2008 at 04:27 PM • top

“Repeating lies does not add up to the truth.”  Yes, but repeating lies does cast doubt upon the truth and that is precisely what TEC aims to do.  The other great flaw in all of this is that, while the Episcopal church was modeled after the US government, it lacks the checks and balances of the three branches of the government: the executive branch-the President (and in TEC that would be the episcopate), the legislative branch-the Congress (and in TEC that would be the episcopate), and the judicial branch-the Supreme Court (and in TEC that would be the episcopate).

[18] Posted by no longer an episcopalian on 03-30-2008 at 10:00 PM • top

Please explain again to us moronic untermenchen out here that heresy, apostacy, lies, savage persecution of old men, law suits against laymen and other Christians, theft of property, elevation of sexual deviants, contempt for the rule of law, perversion of the Canons, and all the other Hellish attributes of the Schori/Beers TEC, are preferable to schism.

Remind me again what your current mantra is?  Oh yea…”“Repeating lies does not add up to the truth.”

[19] Posted by FrJake on 03-30-2008 at 10:13 PM • top

Reading Father Eaton’s appearance, I was reminded of a book I just completed,   Dunkirk: Fight to the Last Man   by Hugh Sebag-Montefiore. The book focuses on those who fought a rearguard action so the bulk of the fighting force could escape to fight another day. The force that escaped became the bulk of the force that later dealt the Nazis their first defeat at El Alamein.

I can’t imagine being in Eaton’s shoes, remaining in a hostile Episcopal Church with no institutional support, a heretical church leadership and no access to the levers of power.  Its not a long term assignment. However, his continuing resistance may make it just a little harder for Schori and company, and may just by a little bit of time for those getting on the ships for the safety of the GS provinces. Those who have left, or who are on the way out, should say thanks.

[20] Posted by Going Home on 03-30-2008 at 11:10 PM • top

Thanks, Jake #19, for reminding us again of the one thing teddy mak left out of his list—denial.

[21] Posted by Craig Goodrich on 03-31-2008 at 12:35 AM • top

Ahhh - I love it when Jake does a drive-by!

But it is after a known political principle that if you repeat a lie often enough it “becomes” true. Besides and truly, the final demise of TEC will not be in our lifetimes, short of some unforeseen catastrophe. It will slowly wind down as the spring of money unwinds and there is no one left to wind it up again. And the revisionists will sit back, comfortable in their retirement accounts, wearing their episcopal collars and opine about the good old days when they brought down one of the most potent denominations in the US, praise BuddAllasophie!

[22] Posted by masternav on 03-31-2008 at 02:50 PM • top

Registered members are welcome to leave comments. Log in here, or register here.

Comment Policy: We pride ourselves on having some of the most open, honest debate anywhere about the crisis in our church. However, we do have a few rules that we enforce strictly. They are: No over-the-top profanity, no racial or ethnic slurs, and no threats real or implied of physical violence. Please see this post for more. Although we rarely do so, we reserve the right to remove or edit comments, as well as suspend users' accounts, solely at the discretion of site administrators. Since we try to err on the side of open debate, you may sometimes see comments that you believe strain the boundaries of our rules. Comments are the opinions of visitors, and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of Stand Firm, its board of directors, or its site administrators.