Breaking from TLC: Presiding Bishop’s Chancellor Threatens Fort Worth, Quincy Dioceses

Matt,
I find this very disturbing, filled with much chuzpa.  She is still two days out and this is the first salvo.  What concerns me the most is that this action comes as almost immediately after her meeting with ++Rowan.  Did she sense weakness on his part, an unwillingness of the part of the AbC to discipline TEC?

. . . or did she sense that Rowan isn’t going to participate in the deracination of the Anglican Communion under the auspices of 815, and has decided that she must begin the clampdown now?

Once again to those on the fence:  this kind of ‘tolerance’ is what you will have to expect after the 815 folks get through with the Conservatives.

Not that the idea of TEC playing hardball should surprise anyone but this smells like a bluff.  If Kate pushes this, she pretty much guarantees that Bob Duncan gets an invitation to the Dar Es Salaam Primates Meeting while she doesn’t.  And if that happens, it’s on.

Enter the goose-stepping jackboot of tolerance

I’m not surprised by this at all.  It’s been my opinion since her election, based on her various speeches, interviews and manner of speaking, that Mrs. Schori intends to destroy the orthodox in her organization and solve this “problem” once and for all.  It’s pretty clear that we are not dealing with another Griswold here, but someone with only the most thinly disguised contempt for traditional (= most) Christians.  Additionally, she will come to power riding a wave of rage from the progressive blogosphere, which will undoubtedly be demanding she produce a scalp or two to demonstrate there’s a new sheriff in town.

As I said a few days earlier, I’m sure the deposition filings are pre-packaged. +Iker might want to watch for the certified mail from New York, dated November 5.

Hmmmm,
Does the term “Jack-boot Jane” ring any bells.  Perhaps the BBE was a devotee of the former Bishop of Washington, since her reign in NV started at about the apex of +Jane’s tirade at Christ Church, Accokeek.
Inquiring minds want to know.

“Mr. Beers concludes his letter stating “should your diocese decline to take that step, the Presiding Bishop will have to consider what sort of action she must take in order to bring your diocese into compliance.”

Javol, kommandant!

But remember reappraisers, you’re the big bad meanies who are totally oppressing everyone else…

Well, well, well. The Grand Exalted High Priestess of TEC/ECUSA shows her true colors (not that we didn’t know them already). I do hope there is no one out there who believes this was not done at her request and with her enthusiastic support.

Ok, the gloves are off now. This changes everything. What’s next? Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

the snarkster

One wonders, having placed himself fully and enthusiastically under Schori’s authority, does Jim Stanton salute smartly and applaud this move to restore ECUSA’s good order and discipline?

As I commented on Drell:

Boy, +Iker is right about the timing of the letter being shocking. Amazing. It has the appearance of deliberately choosing a date on which basically noone has to claim responsibility. +Schori is no longer +Nevada, but not “quite” PB yet.

And +Griswold basically signed off over the weekend in London… And like Al Haig, David Booth Beers has suddenly stepped into the void with his letter which could be read as proclaiming “I’m in charge here!”

Yikes.

————————-
elaborating a bit further: while both +Frank and +Katharine can ALMOST both claim it “wasn’t on their watch,” of course Beers’ invoking +Schori (if you don’t comply she’ll have to decide what to do) indicates this is going out with her full approval.  But it can’t quite be said to be her first “official” action.  Oh so so sneaky.

I’m reminded of something she said in an interview after she was elected:

[Interviewer] As presiding bishop, will you need to set aside your personal convictions on gay rights for the greater good of the church?

[+Schori]That is a piece of who I am. I am not going to set that aside. It is a piece of my vocation.

From the Oregonian
http://www.oregonlive.com/printer/printer.ssf?/base/news/115172253994680.xml&coll=7&thispage=3

That told us then and there that she planned to play hardball.  She has not made a single effort that I can see since her election to reach out to reasserters, to ever speak to our concerns. 

But hey, we prayed for clarity.  We keep getting it in spades!

Bishop Jack, call on the Texas National Guard if you have to !!!!

(Just kidding)

(maybe)

*G*

And so the battle for Middle Earth began…

Thirty years ago I was told if you agree with Jesus, Sts. Paul and Peter don’t get involved with TEC because down the line you will be crucified by Judas!!!

Perhaps someone more familiar with ecclesiastical law can inform me, what exactly can Schori do to bring Dioceses into line that don’t recognize her authority?  As we are often reminded, ECUSA is not set up the way other Anglican bodies are, and our Presiding Bishop does not have the authority of an Archbishop/Primate.  Indeed, officially, there is not difference between the magnatude of power exercised by the PB and any other ECUSA Bishop—in fact, one might say a Diocesan has more, since they still precide over a particular geographical location while the PB presides over a suite in NYC.

I think we can begin referring to these events as the “liberal takeover” of the Episcopal Church with increasing reason.

More sabre-rattling. Schori and 815 can do nothing. Jack Leo will brush them off like so much lint.

Let’s hope Bishop Iker DOES brush ‘em off “like so much lint.”  But I’ll bet anything that this will backfire on +Kate, and I’ll also bet that +Duncan WILL get that invitation!  And if he does, it’s “all over” for Schori & Company.

How convenient that Bishop Ackerman is in the Holy Land right now.

Another thought…

Does this mean the amicable separation is off the table?

On the other hand, is this a signal that the London meeting wasn’t as cordial as TEC claimed and that Dr. Williams told Schori what was what?

A bit off topic, but hey, there are no elves here!

You all know that Beers is going to be one of the featured speakers at the Episcopal Majority gathering this weekend, right?  I hope we’ve got some Adventurers registered to attend and give us the full scoop on what he has to say.

But it’s going to be hard to do much undercover work, because it’s not like there will be throngs to hide in.  Last I saw, only 100 were registered.

All I have to say is I hope that all involved remember how Christ would deal with the problem and try to do the same for if we the ones that want to follow His complete doctrine disobey any part of it then we are no better than the ones that feel that it is alright for the church to say homosexual acts are not a sin. That is the key and we all need to remember that Christ died for not the rightous ones but for the sinners and I know that I fall into that boat big time and I am trying to do right and I hope and pray that everyone involved in this will remember and try to follow what He tells us is the only path to God. May God bless us all and forgive us for all our downfalls.

When I saw those pictures of ++Williams, +Jefferts-Schori, and +Griswold together, I noticed that the Archbishop was grinning…..not smiling…..and it was a tight grin at that!  A picture says a lot.

The last meeting that was “frank” (as Jefferts Schori described the meeting with Griswold and Williams) was New York (didn’t she use the same phrase there?) fleshed out by Iker and others as civilly butting heads, and then collapse.  If that’s the kind of meeting held with Williams, then this is no surprise.  In fact, if this nonsense escalates in some way, I would not also be surprised to see Rowan provide his own press release that we would need to read between the lines to see how exasperated he might be.
This is just nonsense.  Really: no sense to it at all.

Perhaps she should listen to the 4 Jacob Marleys in California about how successful they were trying to do that,oh well,here’s your chain dearie…...

And +Griswold basically signed off over the weekend in London… And like Al Haig, David Booth Beers has suddenly stepped into the void with his letter which could be read as proclaiming “I’m in charge here!”

Sounds like a perfect time for a palace coup

Sounds like Queen Jadis/White Witch has ordered Maugrim to go to the Beavers’ house and “kill everything you find there”.  (with apologies to C. S. Lewis, TLWW)

Watch for the deposition and election of a TEC shadow bishop of Fort Worth/Quincy stunt.  Using that as precedent, it’ll be useful to make sees on the fence come to 815.

That’s the way I’d do it, if I was advising the side of darkness.

Do I hear an emergency Prelate’s meeting alarm going off?

And so it begins.  Yes it seems the gloves come off.  Now it seems TEC is once again showing that it is willing go its own way and the Anglican Communion can get back to being church.  Not a day too soon!  Let it come!

Paddy;
Don’t hold your breath—if the Prelates didn’t do jack squat on the eve of VGR’s elevation in 2003, what makes you think they’ll be spurred to action by some “internal housekeeping” by the Nazis at 815?.  And can ANYONE say they’re surprised by the Gestapo-esque tactics already being employed here?  Get ready, folks…you only have to endure 9 years of this garbafe under the High Priestess.  Happy Reformation Day!

Do we know how the letters were delivered?  E-mail, Fax, Fed-Ex, USPS?  A small thing.  But the next question is are there more of the same for the other orthodox dioceses?  I.E., is San Joaquin next and hasn’t gotten it yet?

Sorry that Chip Johnson beat me to the “Jack-boot Jane” reference. Sooo similar. Maybe we can use “Kommandant Kate”? Or Kommisar Kate? The Chancellor has been doing dopey things on +Frank’s behalf for years. Why should we think he would stop when presented with an open reappraiser/revisionist as his new boss? He’s probably giggling at the latitude she is going to be giving him to make mischief.

It could be a good cop/bad cop setup.  Schori takes office and calls off her goon, saying, “We don’t have to be so unpleasant yet.”  And everyone says of Schori, “Ain’t she sweet?”  (Did I mention how Sam Giancana saved my life?  Two thugs were beating me up outide a casino, and they probably would have killed me if Mr. G hadn’t come by and said, “That’s enough, boys!”)

The Beers letter is dated Oct. 19th and came by regular mail to my chancellor’s law office.  When a copy was faxed to me from his office on the 27th, I then faxed it to Lambeth Palace, so the Archbishop would know what was in the works.  Alas, Katharine had been there for her visit with the ABC that very day but had already departed.

+JLI

Bp Iker notes:

The Beers letter is dated Oct. 19th and came by regular mail to my chancellor’s law office.  When a copy was faxed to me from his office on the 27th, I then faxed it to Lambeth Palace, so the Archbishop would know what was in the works.  Alas, Katharine had been there for her visit with the ABC that very day but had already departed.

If this is genuine, I am appalled. The level of false witness is so high as to make it impossible to scale. Has she no shame?

Bishop Iker

Thank you for the background information on this situation.  My family and I will be praying for you and your diocese for wisdom and grace in your response to this letter.

You are all wrong!

First this report must be incorrect. Surely the poster children of tolerance, diversity, and inclusivity wouldn’t try such a thing….. okay I am kidding on that one, we all know the tolerant diversity inclusive crowd are anything but i.e. intolerant, exclusive, and wanting only people who think and look the same!

So the question is why? Well in the words of Bill Clinton, “because I could” is the best description of why. What is the end goal of the new PB? The same goal across the dioceses, make life uncomfortable for conservatives in the hopes that they (we) will flee / abandon the fight for the little stone bridge. That is what this is about - an attempt to get the conservatives to leave - likely for southern cone bishops, etc.

Chapie+

“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them…...” Mt. 7:15

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies….. 2Pe 2:1

“I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers…..” Jn 15:5

Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes…..Ep 6:10

All together now, “Onward Christian soldiers…..”

I’m going to be praying hard for Bishop Iker and other faithful orthodox during Morning Prayer tomorrow. . . .  And I might pray an imprecatory psalm concerning the jack boots at 815.

I will be praying for you, too, Bishop Iker, and for all involved.  Please know that those of you in leadership from parish priests to Bishops have our sincerest thanks and appreciation for your steadfast leadership.

Blessings,
Liz Forman

someone used the phrase “intolerant champions of tolerance”.  How appropriate.  when do the tanks roll into the square?
DE in NH

I am relieved to hear the letter was delivered by regular post. I was afraid it had been dropped off by the nazgul.
Interesting, to say the least, that this was in the works before the sit down with +++Rowan.

Cordial? Hmmmm… As in, “You are cordially invited to kiss my ass.” Excuse my French, s’il vous plait.

the snarkster

OK, Sarah H!  I know you are there…..and I am waiting to hear from you, for I know it will be very astute.

And Snarkster, that is the funniest thing I have heard in awhile.  Even en francais, it is pretty much tellin’ it like it is!

Hmmm…an aggressive agenda being forced down our throats using courts…sound familiar?

The Church of the New Thing is unleashing its canonical fundies and they will brook no opposition.

May God have mercy on them… 

Bishop Iker,

Thank you for personally responding.  You are in our prayers as you already have been.  Please know that you will remain in them.  We look to you and your fellow bishops for Godly leadership even more now.  May His voice be loud and clear to you and all bishops.  God bless you.

David Booth Beers “Warning” to the Orthodox Christians in the Dioceses of Fort Worth and Quincy sounds strangely familiar.

He warns that certain statements which, in essence, recognize the supreme authority of God’s Holy Word are “cutting against an ‘unqualified accession’ to the Constitution and Canons of the General Convention of The Episcopal Church”

Such “Warnings”, which are properly rejected, have been given before by Legal “authorities” who have felt threatened by the Power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Here is a Prime Example:

Acts 4
Peter and John Before the Sanhedrin
1The priests and the captain of the temple guard and the Sadducees came up to Peter and John while they were speaking to the people. 2They were greatly disturbed because the apostles were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead. 3They seized Peter and John, and because it was evening, they put them in jail until the next day. 4But many who heard the message believed, and the number of men grew to about five thousand.
5The next day the rulers, elders and teachers of the law met in Jerusalem. 6Annas the high priest was there, and so were Caiaphas, John, Alexander and the other men of the high priest’s family. 7They had Peter and John brought before them and began to question them: “By what power or what name did you do this?”
8Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people! 9If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a cripple and are asked how he was healed, 10then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11He is
  ” ‘the stone you builders rejected,
    which has become the capstone.[a]’ 12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”
13When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus. 14But since they could see the man who had been healed standing there with them, there was nothing they could say. 15So they ordered them to withdraw from the Sanhedrin and then conferred together. 16"What are we going to do with these men?” they asked. “Everybody living in Jerusalem knows they have done an outstanding miracle, and we cannot deny it. 17But to stop this thing from spreading any further among the people, we must warn these men to speak no longer to anyone in this name.”
18Then they called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. 19But Peter and John replied, “Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God’s sight to obey you rather than God. 20For we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard.”
21After further threats they let them go. They could not decide how to punish them, because all the people were praising God for what had happened. 22For the man who was miraculously healed was over forty years old.

I see the motivation behind this…and it is the work of Satan!  The High Priestess could not make a bold statement FOR Christ last summer—and while I no longer consider myself an Episcopalian, it is the obligation of ALL Christians to fight the Dark One wherever he or his influence is felt.  And I most assuredly feel it in these actions.  She and her supporters are blasphemers, heretics, and worse…and must be treated as such.  If the bishops and clergy won’t act, the laity MUST.  Or would you all rather wait, complacent and cowering, until the High Priestess defrocks your priests, rewrites your liturgy, and teaches her GARBAGE to your children?  Must ANOTHER generation of American Anglicans be lost to the Revisionists? I rebuke Kathryn Jefferts-Schori as an enemy of Our Lord, as a false priest, and as a blasphemer.  I deny her authority over ANY church, and refuse to recognize ANY rights performed by her. May God have mercy upon her, should she recant…but may he have none if she does not. Sic semper tyrannis!

alle hagel der gruppenfuhrer von der Bischöflichen Kirche

<clicks heels>

Who is really surprised?

I am personally thankful for Bishop Iker, and upstate NY prayers are ascending for his continued leadership in the Diocese of Ft. Worth, ecusa and the ACN.

What I want to say is, “Tell us what to do.”  But I know that there is so much involved.

So, leaders in the Faith.  We and many are behind you and wait on God and you.

I’m going to go pray.

Seems I read something like this once before…. Oh, yeah, Orwell’s Animal Farm (or am I getting that confused with 1984 ?

Closed circuit to Bishop Keith- Pitch her high and inside.

This action is so peculiar as to raise flags for us.  Look behind the scenes in order to better understand what lies ahead.  A metereologist would probably warn us that the perfect storm is eminently upon us.  I believe this action indicates the PBE has finally acknowledged that we have passed the point of no return.  There WILL be two Anglican Provinces in North America. 

The stalling process has ended.  The PBE has knowledge that the orthodox camp is moving ahead swiftly.  Accordingly, she has begun her pre-emptive defensive strike.  I welcome it!  Please gather up your things as we will very shortly be leaving Egypt.

folks, as the new ex-pat, all I can say is this:

we lost, 90% to 10%.  our kind is not welcome in TEC.  I say toss the greedy good fer nuthins the keys, the notes, the debts and move to more faithful pastures.

Matthew 7:20
“Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”

Do you think she is specifically targeting the dioceses that do not recognize WO first?  That would seem to be a good battle tactic for her (I live in the land of secular liberals some of the time, and know how these strategies go…).  First attack those for whom there is the least sympathy, and for whom the most hate-speak can be produced (chauvinist, misogynist, etc.).  Next are the loudmouths, then the fence-sitters can be swatted like flies, as dioceses and parishes across the country reels in shock.  Too bad she didn’t count on GOD’s people being in the battle - doesn’t she know that the victory has already been won?  Oh, that’s right, she doesn’t - so sad…

On a canonical tact - is this what was being set up when the resolution passed - I don’t know when or which or the wording - that said that ALL dioceses MUST ordain women?  If people don’t see that as laying a trap for the present situation, they haven’t been paying attention.

Clay;
Welcome to the “Episcopal Alumni Association.”  Life as an Ex-piscopalian is good…and you can condemn the High Priestess and her cronies without fear of censure, presentment, or invoking the ire of the Revisionalists.  I will miss those strange sermons in TEC, though (my personal favorite is the one about Spunky the Donkey, preached at Transfiguration/Dallas a couple of years ago).  Our Lutheran pastor’s sermon yesterday was “The Reformation: Not For Weenies.”  The overall message was that the Reformation continues in each of us, daily.  I pray that those seeking to lead the remaining Orthodox out of TEC will be empowered by the Holy Spirit, and blaze a path that glorifies Our Lord.

I cannot make amends for the actions of another. That is on the individual to do. But, though I am not a traditionalist and part of me believes quite differently from the majority of you I do not and I can not condone the actions of anyone who pushes people away from the church. I see the pain that the most progressive members of the body of Christ so freely bestow upon the more traditional members of the body. It cuts me to the core. I cannot fathom how they are unable to discern the consequences of their actions yet they seem to be in some sort of self-righteous denial.

No one should be forced out. No one should be encouraged to leave. Perhaps, there must be a parting after all is said and done bcause of our diverse beliefs. But a substantial difference exists between one who chooses to leave and one who is tossed out forcibly. So many of us have stopped listening and started lashing out instead. May God have mercy on us all!

If she was looking for someone she could intimidate she sure made a poor choice.  I doubt +Iker really cares how much hate speech comes his way.  He is a man of principle, which is something KJS will never understand.

“But it’s going to be hard to do much undercover work, because it’s not like there will be throngs to hide in.  Last I saw, only 100 were registered.”

I wouldn’t be extra concerned as Phil has already made himself welcomed.

Whoa!  There are 55 comments on the thread.  Of those 55, there is one exhortation for Christ-like conduct, two quotations of scripture, eight declarations of intent to pray, and one prayer of rebuke of Satan.  A full 22% of the comments!  Oh yeah, there was also snarkster’s “Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!”

Relax, God is in charge.

Chapie+

At our convention this past weekend (Olympia) we were instructed that the national church could NOT tell a diocese what to do—hence the Convention voted in opposition to B033 saying National could NOT dictate our position on that issue.  Isn’t this the National Church dictating policy to a Diocese?  Aren’t the Dioceses independent in their policies as long as they do not contradict what the Canons of National say?

Bishop Iker,
Praying for you and Bishop Ackerman,and Ft Worth and Quincy dioceses.
Note to PB elect Schiori and co,Jeremiah 23:1-4

I will be waiting anxiously to see how “moderate” bishops respond.  This includes Bishop Gray, who may now be rethinking his earlier statements about KJS.

drjoan said: ‘Isn’t this the National Church dictating policy to a Diocese?  Aren’t the Dioceses independent in their policies as long as they do not contradict what the Canons of National say?’

drjoan, having rejected the formulary of Holy Scripture, TEC is functionally replacing that with it’s own canons and constitution.  This weekend The Episcopal Majority will hold their first conference in Washington, DC to discuss these things.  Thier keynote speaker is bp Jon Bruno and workshops will be by the likes of David Booth Beers (confronting parishes and dioceses), Christopher I. Wilkins of Viamedia (‘Waging Reconciliation’), and Rev. William R. Coats (‘Confronting the Covenant’).

The takeover of the Episcopal Church seems complete and the ‘Final Solution’ is in motion.

Andy

The Night of the Long Knives paves the way for the future style of “leadership”....

As I awakened this morning, I realized that there was a serious omission on this thread.  Several folks had committed to pray for Ft. Worth and Quincy.  No one commited to pray for PB-elect Schori and Chancellor Beers.  So in the spirit of Lk 6:28:  Lord, you know Katherine and David far better than we, and you can love Katherine and David far more perfectly than we.  Bless them, Lord.  Meet them at their point of great need.  We ask this in the name of Your Son, who taught us how to pray.  Amen.

My wife and her family are Episcopalians and I feel their anguish, sadness and disappointment as I pray alongside them for God’s mercy, guidance and peace. May Our Lord’s peace be among all of you at this hour.

Jill, a good, but hard reminder.  Thanks for your example and faithfulness in prayer, especially the hard ones like this.  I confess I don’t really want to obey Christ’s command this morning.  Isn’t it sad when one has to spend time in prayer wrestling with one’s flesh BEFORE one can pray…!

The Diocese of Fort Worth amended its constitution in 1997. 1997! First reading passed overwhelmingly a DECADE ago!

The revision of Article I, qualifying our accession reads thus: “The Church in this Diocese accedes to the Constitution and Canons of The Episcopal Church, and recognizes the authority of the General Convention of said Church provided that no action of General Convention which is contrary to Holy Scripture and the Apostolic Teaching of the Church shall be of any force or effect in this Diocese.”

Now you know why we are such a HUGE threat! A kinder gentler presiding episcopate….. yeah, right!!!

Over at T-19 William Tighe speculates that this is an attempt to divide the orthodox, using WO as the wedge. Looked at from the reappraiser perspective, that makes sense: attack Bp. Iker’s position about WO, and only WO, and hope that orthodox who favor WO don’t defend him. Clever.

This is a terrible way for Bp. Jefferts-Schori to begin her term as Presiding Bishop. Who will believe any claims about her tolerance and inclusion? She, and her advisors, must have calculated that the ability to claim that they are tolerant doesn’t matter now. Why?

When the Civil War started Lincoln went out of his way not to fire the first shot. He was determined that the Confederacy fire first. The Network, and the ABC, have adopted Lincoln’s tactical position. The new Presiding Bishop is adopting the stance of the “fire eaters” in 1861 South Carolina. This stance only makes sense if TEC has calculated that there is little or no benefit to continued accomodation of the orthodox. If that calculation happened, then we can infer that TEC has also calculated that their position with the GS (and even the ABC!) is bad and getting worse.

When is the first presentment going to be made against the quondam “Bishop” of Nevada?

There use to be a conscious clause for those opposed to w.o.  Now there is one for those who teach radical inclusion.  Inclusion except for those we lable exclusive.  Tolerance except for those we lable intolerant.  Enforcement over charity.  For those of you who hold control over TEC and are jamming this agenda down everyone’s throat, remember this:  “Blessed are the poor in spirit…” You know the rest.
The G.S. Primates began to open a door in September.  Now the PB elect is setting up to kick people through.

Leonardo Ricardo, actually, I welcomed myself to possibly have a drink with the Fr. Jake crew, not attend the EM conference.  Bottoms up.

someone used the phrase “intolerant champions of tolerance”.

That was me, DE—but feel free to use it! 

I’m doing this for you own good!
Any Establishment Executioner

I am confused by the “shock” expressed by some.
There are two churches under the TEC label, the Network churches and the most of the rest. (Those few parishes and Dioceses that are orthodox but can’t seem to take a public stand are thus with the TEC leadership by default).  These two churches are incompatable, they cannot stay under the same roof.  The minority Network Dioceses like Fort Worth will either have to seperate from the rest or conform.  This letter is just part of the pressure to conform.

+Iker acts surprised, but I am sure he expected this. Mrs. Schori is captain elect of a sinking ship. Don’t expect much from ++ Rowan: he has proven himself spineless as a jellyfish, which may endear him to TEC’s oceanographer high priestess.

It seems I may have offended Jill and I apologize. I have the utmost respect for Jill and her husband George+. I have made an effort over the past few months to try be a little less incendiary with my comments as some of you may have noticed.

Having said that, I must now say that this Beers letter, at least in my humble opinion, represents a dramatic escalation of hostilities against the traditional orthodox left in TEC/ECUSA. It is evident that moderation is not going to help us. At some point, we are going to have to become Christian soldiers instead of Christian patsies. I think that we have now reached that point. We can no longer afford to fight like gentlemen when our opponents have taken off the gloves and demonstrated their intent to fight bare knuckled.

the snarkster

Timothy, as one who echoed +Iker about the letter being “shocking” in my first comment here, let me note it is the TIMING I found shocking, not the actual action.

You know folks at ENS can’t be happy.  This has thrown a wrench into their ability to paint a nice happy picture of ECUSA as we celebrate “KJS Investiture week.”  And any image they wanted to paint of KJS as the wonderful reconciler now must be thrown out the window. 

Also, the HOB/D listserv has been shockingly quiet.  One regular posted the news, but so far there has not been a single reply.  (Fr. Jake, Mark Harris, Jim Naughton, and Susan Russell have blogged about it). 

It still seems stunning to me that they would stir up such a hornet’s nest practically on the eve of her investiture.  I honestly don’t know what to make of it.  It is either the most amazing hubris (damn the torpedos full speed ahead) or naivete (no one will care what we do with these mysogenist dioceses) or a remarkable honesty: here I stand, nail your colors to the mast kind of thing…  Or some combo of all three.  But to have these constitutional changes out in the public for 10 years and to choose now to act.  It really and truly boggles the mind.  [Ah, yes, there is also the possibility that there was some kind of external precipitating pressure that we don’t yet know about that forced +Schori & co to act now.]  Time shall tell.

I believe this action indicates the PBE has finally acknowledged that we have passed the point of no return.  There WILL be two Anglican Provinces in North America. 

No, I really do not see TWO Anglican ‘presences’ in the US. 
There will be one true presence and one historical, though apostate, relic of former glory.
The great white ‘snark’ is right, it is now time to take up arms and fight…not for the ‘Church’ in an institutuional sense, but for the glory of the Kingdom of God, and for the Crucified and Resurrected Christ, who, alone, makes all of it worthwhile; and, who alone empowers His Church.
Jill, being always in prayer, is right.  We must pray for the souls of all involved, since the souls of all are precious in His sight, until the last judgement.

Chip: “Great White Snark”? LOL! I am white and I am a “snark” but the great is certainly debatable.

the great white snarkster

One more thought to share on the timing of this.  Something I just read by Dr. Peter Toon caused this to crystallize for me.

I find myself thinking this is a HUGE miscalculation by 815.  According to Toon+ (and I am convinced he’s right) There is a very large percentage of ECUSA that would like nothing more to be able to hide from the crisis, pretend it doesn’t exist, and just get on with 1) their comfortable parish traditions andl life; or 2) mission and evangelism.

+Schori could have ensured the rejoicing and support of many had she taken a course that would have allowed her to appear as if she were “above the fray” and proclaim that she was going to “raise ECUSA above the mire of all this conflict.”  I thought that was the route she WAS taking given the incessant focus on the MDGs the past three months. 

Imagine if she’d done something like go to Sudan.  or Korea.  or South Africa.  (Kind of like +Frank’s Asia tour during the Global South Encounter meetings in Egypt last year.)  The kind of glowing press she would have gotten!  “THIS is what ECUSA truly stands for… It is all about MDGs, peace, justice, reconciliation… blah blah blah.”

We would have never heard the end of it.  But what does she do even before she’s officially PB?  She ESCALATES the crisis and turns the heat up from active simmer to full boil, ensuring that her name will be dragged into the mire, that ECUSA will remain page 1 news in many major newspapers, that the crisis will remain present and dominate the news for weeks and months to come, not be set aside.

As bemused as I am, and also as grieved as I am by this action against Godly leaders and faithful dioceses, I confess I find part of myself secretly glad because 1) Here is more of the clarity so many of us longed for and prayed for.  2) I think this cannot but help the reasserters to forge even closer bonds of unity and grow stronger in purpose and I think it will ultimately prove to be a big setback for the reappraising side.

drjoan way above seems to be on to something.

I am not a canonical expert, but a Diocese can’t have its own canons and by-laws that over-rule the national church?  If so, somebody better tell the Dicoeses passing anti-B033 motions.  I am sure those Dioceses are next on Schori’s hit list (ha!).

Terry Martin (Fr. Jake), Mark Harris, Susan Russell and all the rest are absolutely giddy over this!  Apparently they don’t see the destruction such a war will cause for the next 9 years in the Episcopal church.  9 more years of lawsuits, trials, lawyers, and so on.  The biggest benefactor will be David Beers himself.

The decline of the Episcopal church just got a little steeper.

Publius,
I haven’t been over to T-19 yet, but I respect much of William Tighe’s comments and observations.  I believe that this would be a grave miscalculation on Ms. Schori’s behalf, to try and divide the orthodox over WO.  And I use myself as example.
Some of us are no longer where we were with respects to WO as we were in August of 2003.  For some of us there has been a lot of prayer, study and observation regarding this issue.  I no longer support WO as I once did, I have come to the prayerful conclusion that it needs to come off the table and be put into a moratorium for some time, for the sake of unity among many of the orthodox Anglicans in this world and in deference to our brethern in RC, Eastern Orthodox church and other faith strains to whom WO is a violation of scripture.
This is from a women who, since 1987, believed and still believes that she has a calling, a true vocation from our Lord to the ministry of the priesthood.  I have related a bit of my story elsewhere on StandFirm and I am grateful that I was not able to complete that final step of acceptance 13 years ago. 
My prayers are with Bishop Iker and his diocese.  When I pray for Ms. Schori and her supporters, I pray that God have mercy on their wretched souls.  Our Lord told us to pray for our enemies, but make no mistake ladies and gentlemen, she is an enemy to the cross of Christ.

Karen B., I agree with you that this will be a miscalculation, as seen from our perspective.  Consider the vast middle that, as you say, just wants to go to church and think about nothing beyond the four walls.  To these people, if, say, Pittsburgh says it’s leaving, it is the exception and it appears to be the troublemaking schismatic.  On the other hand, if ECUSA is going around inhibiting bishops, it looks like the troublemaking schismatic.  I believe the people that may not agree with ECUSA’s innovations but want to live and let live are going to be deeply troubled that the same courtesy is not extended to people who think as they do.

The problem is, Mrs. Schori and her fellow-travelers do not think from our perspective.  What I think they are concerned with is silencing the bigots that would impede their march for justice - not conciliar decision making, not their place in the church catholic, not ASA numbers and not the opinion of the rest of the Communion.  At the end of the day, no matter what the Communion does, Mrs. Schori, Bonnie Anderson and the rest are going to have iron-clad control over this institution and will be free to do as they see fit within their self-constructed bubble, without carping from the sidelines - which is exactly what they want.

I appreciate professionally some aspects of the wording of the Beers letter, in that it preserves her options while inviting these dioceses to act of their own volition in anticipation of the undisclosed action: “the Presiding Bishop will have to consider what sort of action she must take in order to bring your diocese into compliance.”  Why go into more detail or action if you can get what you want with a vague letter.

I wonder if the context of this letter lies in Camp Allen.  If I were Schori, I would be more concerned about the potential of gradually losing a larger group of Windsor dioceses than rapidly losing what she must consider a few troublemakers.  If she can somehow quickly change the status of a subset of these troublemakers, then it may deter some of the less motivated of the Windsor group from any further action.

That is - putting aside issues of property - if she were to force the issue with these two in the very near future, then how many would be willing to go along with them?  What happens to “we are then real ECUSA” or “enduring ECUSA” arguments when only these two sees are declared vacant?  Perhaps the remainder of network dioceses might settle on similar terms, but who else?

From the perspective of a milquetoast Windsor bishop, if it took me this long merely to step out for Windsor, would I be ready to settle so soon? must I go along with those I may construe as more extreme?

Finally, those who encourage prayer for the threatened bishops as well as their persecutors are correct.  However, Fort Worth and Quincy do have cause to rejoice, for it apears that they may suffer persecution for Him!

These are interesting times…

Great white snark, I didn’t take offense.  Sorry it seemed that way.  I meant it in a jovial vein. 
It’s interesting to try to see this turn of events from Rowan’s perspective.  He has bent over backwards trying to allow TEC the time and space to find reconciliation on its own, and desperately wishing to avoid a battlefield of litigation.  Schori then lobs a grenade full of litigious promise before she even meets the ABC.  One can’t help but wonder if he’s very angry.

Jill, I would think the ABC would feel betrayed and certainly angry.  But the squid lady feels she has the money and therefore the power and doesn,t need Canterbury.  The historic traditions of the see are unknown and immaterial to her.  We here in Cowtown dio are mobilizing and she has a fight on her hands.

George

Having some time to recuperate from my initial shock, it seems to me DeBeers is doing just exactly what would be required of him should this matter go to ‘court”.. 
“Why, of course your Honor, I did warn them, here is my letter to prove it”....... 

We followed the exact steps that should be taken, giving them every opportunity to answer or change, and they did not do it”.

Therefor, we took the next steps, and here we are”..

Yep, gotta give him credit.He did exactly the correct thing to set up the overthrow of these dioceses.

Grannie Gloria

I have good news and I have GOOD NEWS!

The good news is the hostilities have escalated dramatically, so maybe we can finally just get on with whatever we need to do (like leave). There should be no question left in anyone’s mind about TEC.

The GOOD NEWS is things are becoming more out in the open, and less subversive, which is a much better way to fight a war, which I no longer care to fight. I am spiritually drained.

I am finally past caring about TEC. They can do as they wish. I will be an Anglican without TEC ties when I wake up Thursday morning. I will pray for those who choose to stay.

Doug, welcome to the club!  Now the hard work begins…

+Shori’s actions—should they be followed up seriously and not turn out to be a red herring—are breathtaking from several points of view.  She consecrates her opponents.  She all but declares war.  She does this with the faintest of base support (remember her election anyone?)  But most importantly she declares obsolete many if not most of the behaviour of bishops who voted for EVR because they didn’t feel right interfering in Dio NH’s business, they didn’t want someone doing likewise in theirs down the road.  It’s October—dreaded pledge time for many—and she is in bad need of shall we say: tribute?  What Matt+ derides as institutionalists have just been cut loose—if it’s not a red herring luring fools into overreaction.

Check out:  http://www.evangelicals.org/news.asp?id=534

EVNews reporting on a Radio 4 interview with John Humphreys:  “Williams has no answer to the questions of life”.  To these questions Williams was completely incapable of delivering a straight forward biblical answer, but instead gave very vague philosophical answers.
For instance:  “To the question ‘Why don’t you try to convert people of other religions,’ Williams said ‘The Church did not blaze out into the roman world and say here is the truth you must believe it, but what you say is what we say’.”
EVNews gives a link to the radio interview but I can’t get it.  What troubles me in reading this is that it fills me with troubling questions about the convicting authority with which ++Williams is able to speak (but should above all be able to speak with the convicting Authority of the Scriptures and of a man representing the Anglican communion) with Schori and Griswold about the troubles over here.  It upsets me when I think of this politically appointed man running/representing a business called the CofE in which 50% don’t believe in the purpose or the product.
What can Williams say to Schori and Griswald that would recommend that they deal leniently and with love with the orthodox, if he doesn’t represent our interests and share our beliefs.  How can a philosopher king be seen as anything but a sham by those who live and stand with the Fire of God in their hearts.
The excerpt of this interview has really upset me.

this “threat” idiocy SHOULD be the catalyst for the orthodox, that 10% minority, to do what must be done:

get out of a church that doesn’t want you - just your money.

I don’t know just where I’m going, could be CCP, could be the REC parish near me, or one of two Anglican missions also near me, but I am going to a church that is more respectful of propriety and “the old fashioned way”.

Pray for people stuck in TEC for whatever reason, pray for the heretics driving TEC down the river, but get yourself OUT and begin building a new, true Anglican organization on these shores.  TEC’s days are NUMBERED.  They are getting desperate, and will only be moreso as 10% hit the door.

The only way to make TEC see the errors of it’s ways is to leave it and let it suffer for it’s heresies.  At some point, if there’s a thoughtful person at HQ, someone will ask “maybe WE’RE the problem?”

This cannot and will not happen if you 10%-ers stick around.

Join me and PS in the alumni association!

Real sorry!
I placed this comment on the wrong post. ... should have gone on the Post regarding Schori, Griswold, and Williams’ cordial meeting.

Something to keep in mind amidst all the anger, confusion, etc., from a fellow Anglican across the pond:
“In many ways, it is good for us to be despised and rejected. I think of Jesus’ words, “Woe unto you when all men speak well of you.” “—John Stott, interviewed in Christianity Today.

Timothy, Thanks, and you are right. There is much to be done, but at least the harvest will be worth it!

One of the earliest things my father taught me was that we think like humans and do not have the capacity to question or even fully understand all that God does/has done.  I didn’t “get it” until I read in Exodus about God hardening Pharoah’s heart - understood it had a purpose and took it for granted God knew what He was doing, but sort of felt sorry for Pharoah.  There are times when I read the latest PB Shori insanity that I wonder if God isn’t hardening her heart for a purpose.  Despite being touted as one to bring us all back together again, every move she makes seems to widen the gap.  This is certainly clarity!

DA, are you joining an established Anglican parish or part of a start up?
The “decompression” process is an important one. We discovered that we had a lot of baggage to get rid of, and it took several months of a discernment and study process to get that process started.  We discovered that many of things we used to think were of great importance were not.  We also discovered that the disfunctional Episcopal relationships over the last few years masked other problems we needed to address, including how to make a difference as ambassadors for Christ in our community. Most Episocpal churches, even the orthodox ones, are lousy at evangelism and bringing others into the fold. It is requiring us to view much of what we do not by our own preferences but by what is the most effective of being God’s instruments.

edited

OK, that last comment wasn’t very “Christian”...but then sin no longer exists, so I’m a bit confused….

we don’t usually edit comments but that was over the top. I know times are difficult but let’s not let them overwhelm us

The comment to which you are responding has been deleted. Since you quoted the offending post in full, we have removed your comment as well to avoid confusion etc…

Ok, midwest, you beat me to it.  Obviously my posting skills need some work too.

Thanks for beating me to it, Miss Sippi.
midwestnorwegian:
The ... comment may have been said in jest, but it crossed the line for me….I hope as guest as I am you would honor the space you are using.

I think we all need to remember that we must minister Christ in all of our words and actions even though we are upset.  This is where Christ can really show through us to others.

edited to remove all reference to deleted remarks above

Guess I have to back down, too.  Thanks for apologizing, midwestnorwegian.

Yes, my earlier comment was in poor taste, but it does reflect my intense frustration.  I also find all of the earlier metaphors of “Jack Boots”, “Nazis”, etc. JUST as tasteless.

OK, I just got back in and Matt briefed me on the comments he edited.

midwestnorwegian - only because you apologized, and only because I was out and Matt handled things, not me, are you not banned. via orthodoxy, your comment on the other thread was over the line too.

People, remember - this site gets over 30,000 unique visitors a month. It’s read in Nigeria… Canterbury… 815 Second Avenue… 

It’s often said that character is what someone does when nobody’s looking. Extrapolate from there.

Here’s the rules again:

1. No threats of physical violence, period. This includes death threats, and this includes jokes.

2. No racial or ethnic slurs.

3. Profanity must be stylish, and used very infrequently.

Violation of Rule 1 will result in immediate baninng.

Violation of Rule 2 will get a warning; 2 strikes and you’re banned.

Violation of Rule 3 will get a yellow flag. Enough yellow flags, and banning becomes a probability.

After further review, I’m closing this thread. It’s run its course and run off track.