Breaking: The Falls Church vestry recommends disaffiliation from ECUSA

Thank you for this very important news.
What about Truro? Has it decided?

Tessa - yes, Truro’s vestry voted on Saturday to recommend disaffiliation.

Not I,  said the cat.

“I waited to post this news until this morning so that the information could be made public in other venues first.”

Sarah, could you post a link public release?

Truro has not officially released any information on the vestry meeting on last Saturday.

Agreed with Hosea6:6—please provide links to other news sources with this info.  As a Truro member I’ve known about the Truro vestry’s decision since Sunday morning, but those of us who knew were waiting for press releases before saying anything.

It’s important to know who’s reporting what and whether they have the details correct.  Thanks.

My apologies - I do not attend Truro but had heard of the supposed result elsewhere, so I assumed it was in the public domain.  Please treat my comment as an unsubstantiated rumor.

Hosea6:6 - thanks for your email a few days ago.  I had trouble replying to it for some reason, but I did receive it.

In fact, if any administrator is reading, please delete my comments.  I assumed this was in the public domain, and it clearly is not.

And for the millionth time, when do the captain and crew realize that the ship is sinking?
When one of the oldest, founding parishes (not to mention relatively large) of the entire church leaves, you know something is wrong, very wrong.

Fr. Yates letter to his parish is now up on Virtueonline.

This is interesting… Google News knows nothing of either recommendation, and the only site I’ve been able to find any reference to this on is here on Stand Firm… are you sure you haven’t let the cat out of the bag?

Phil, the cat is out of the bag. Your assumption that it was in the public domain is more or less confirmed by the fact that you knew it at all. No sense deleting comments now.

If this is really true, then thank God for it!  The rest of the show should be very interesting after February!

Then let me just say congratulations to both churches.  Though I can predict the result, remember these are recommendations that must be validated by a congregational vote.

News is coming soon.  Please stay tuned.

bb

I have said a prayer for those 2 (out of 15) Vestry members at TFC, and any that may have dissented at Truro.  As challenging as such a situation is for those who feel called to leave for a while, those of a contrary view face their own unique frustrations and sense of loss in this situation.  I pray that following after the congregational votes the leadership and membership can be united, regardless of their vote, in moving forward as an Anglican parish with new vigor and commitment. 
I also pray that a way is found to swiftly bring the African, Asian and South American connected Anglican churches in a new Province. 
There is a lot to be done.

Timothy: The vote of the Truro Vestry was unanimous.

And don’t forget, sports fans…. GS Primates are here in the States NOW.

Anxious, that is good news!

At our parish meeting on Sunday, Os Guinness gave us the exhortation that troughout Scripture God calls people to do things, but when the call is made all the answers are not given at that time. Abram was called out of Ur but not given all the answers.

However there were some dessent in the congragation. The best analogy is ironically divorce.  Yes this has become untenable, yes, Nov. 4 was very painful as pagan water ritual broadway show with token Christian references and a works based sermon made me want never confess to being baptised an Episcopalian.

The truth is that I was baptised an Episcopalian and that fond is at a parish I’ll probably no longer be connected. That is sad. Two decenting votes is actually representive of the congragation (don’t be too impressed with a Truro Vestry being unanimous).

It’s exciting to step out into the unknown with our hand the hand of Jesus. Also sad for this is like the papers being filed at the court, still things to go through, we can see where it is heading, but sad for George Washington never thought Christ Church and Falls Church might not be walking together one day. Just no one goes to an Alter thinking it will not work.

Does anyone have membership figures on these two churches? All told, how many DioVA Episcopalians are we talking about?

Truro and TFC each have north of 3,000 members. TFC may have even more. Truro also has church plants scattered around Virginia with additional members. And don’t forget All Saints Dale City and Church of the Apostles in Fairfax.

Greg,
Go to <http://12.0.101.88/charts.aspx>. You can call up graphs showing attendance, membership and giving for any Episcopal Church parish or entire diocese for the past 10 years. Very slick resource.

If anybody wants to see what the Diocese of Virginia is going to turn into absent the corrective voice of its most successful and faithful parishes, see here:

http://www.goingforwardtogether.org

The conference, sponsored by St. Stephen’s in Richmond, starts tomorrow and will lead Virginia into the glorious, post-Christian, labyrinth-walking future.

I believe TFC is about 2800 members/2200 ASA; Truro about 2400/1300. One of the members can provide more accurate info.  These would not be “large” by other denominational standards, but certainly are by ours.  But as you know the significance of these parishes goes beyond their numbers.  I would be interested in seeing the final numbers for the 40 Day of Discernment churches when the final decisions are made.  Viewed together, the defections will be the biggest single hit that TEC has seen to date.

Oh numbers everyone wants numbers. There are ways of getting a pretty good count online if you really wanted and I have my reasons for being vague.

Togethers I’m going to say 3000-4000 people on Sunday, budget together $7M to $8M.

Yes achor parishes. Historically important parishes

http://www.thefallschurch.org/templates/custhefalls/details.asp?id=29455&PID=203829

http://www.trurochurch.org/content.asp?contentid=507

Please, there are other smaller, “unimportant” parishes also in the decerment process. Please pray for them as well. Last night +Duncan exhorted us [meaning all still-TEC-at-this-one-moment people] to think about the whole and not just what is good for them (sandwhiched between Truth over accommodation and missions beyond ourselves).

We are not all of the same mind, we are not in lock step, but this is not TFC & Truro, please pray for those you may not have heard of before as well. The Lord would guide us and protect us as well as for the continued good relationship with those we have disagreement.

Virginia is a better Christlike model to this mess than other places in the US. Satan would love to destroy that. More than just good legal precedence, all the World sees are Christians fighting, so prayers for continued cordial ways to settle matters is important to our Witness.

Clarification: In context +Duncan was talking how those in NYC in Sept. could accept and offer that was good for them but did nothing for people, such as TFC. Needing to think about our actions on a level that’s good for our brothers in the battle. TFC & Truro have done this, thus my reminder of other parishes who may be voting in December.

Truro and the other Virginia parishes which have recently concluded their 40 Days of Discernment will be voting during the week of December 10-16 on vestry recommendations.  As with TFC, Truro’s vestry recommended disaffiliation with ECUSA and affilliation with CANA (until a formal American entity is established.) 

I expect that a clear signal will be sent once the ballots are counted after December 16.

RE: “Agreed with Hosea6:6—please provide links to other news sources with this info.”

Will be glad to provide links to other news sources, KarenB, when they are available.

The letter to the congregation of The Falls Church went out yesterday [Tuesday], and the parishioner [not in the Diocese of VA] who let me know on Tuesday morning had not received that letter then.

This morning, since the letter that had been mailed to the parish had also been posted to at least one online place I realized that about 4000 people now knew about it [not counting the layperson that emailed me on Tuesday morning].

The link to the charts of membership, attendance and giving failed to appear in my note above. I’ll try again. Go to: link

Hi Sarah, thanks for the clarification.  The news is now definitely public as confirmed by Truro vestry members.  Why I expressed concern above was the confusion a month or so ago about the agreement between +Martyn and +Peter Lee.  Truro’s internal e-mail got sent out and published before the Bishop could make a statement.  Obviously one can’t keep news that’s been shared publically with about four thousand parishioners quiet for long, but it was important that Falls & Truro leaders get a chance to talk to Bishop Lee and diocesan leadership about the vestry votes and congregational meeting at Truro.  That’s now happened.

Anyway, so no harm done.  But in any future instances, it really is important we bloggers think about the processes that are happening on the ground in the various dioceses and make sure to take the lead from those who are actually involved in the situation.  Sometimes a delay of a few hours in breaking a story can make a big difference in terms of helping to allow for adequate communications and organization on the ground.  That was all I was concerned about.

I’m glad to see folks also mentioning some of the other parishes involved in the discernment process and voting at this time.  Given their history, Truro and Falls get alot of attention.  But please also be praying for Church of the Apostles, All Saints Dale City, St. Peter’s in the Wood, Church of the Word Gainesville and other parishes in the midst of the same process.

I am absolutely HATING being some 4000 miles from Fairfax at this moment.  I had really been hoping to be at Truro during the voting, but God closed that door pretty firmly.  It is really difficult being far from my church family at this time, but I’m hugely encouraged at what’s been going on during the 40 days of discernment process, deeply thankful for the vestry and clergy leadership and confident that the Lord is and will be guiding in all these momentous decisions.  May He help us to obey Him and choose what pleases and honors Him, no matter how hard.

Any comment yet from +Lee and 815 yet? This should get real interesting real quick, paticularly with the GS bishops being in Va. this week.

the snarkster

Hosea 6:6:  You have Os Guinness at a parish meeting?  That is some parish.

pendennis - and he is something.  The guy at the mike after Os spoke kind of looked around and smiled like, “I’m the guy that has to follow Os Guinness?”  Laughs all around - and that gentlemen spoke powerfully, too.  It was a serious, thoughtful meeting, as Rev. Yates said.

Re: “But in any future instances, it really is important we bloggers think about the processes that are happening on the ground in the various dioceses and make sure to take the lead from those who are actually involved in the situation.  Sometimes a delay of a few hours in breaking a story can make a big difference in terms of helping to allow for adequate communications and organization on the ground.”

Hi Karen—I delayed 36 hours from the time of the vote and 24 hours from the time that the email appeared in my box—again I delayed until after I saw the letter to all the parishioners of The Falls Church *posted on another web site*. 

I’ll be honest—in future I will probably post this sort of news—news that obviously no one minded getting out by telephone—a bit faster than I did today.  It was pretty crazy to wait as long as I did.

Just a warning there . . . if an entity has sent out a mass mailing and if a random layperson in ANOTHER DIOCESE who is not connected with the church [and has not received a letter] has already been informed, I will probably not wait an additional 24 hours after that . . .

Sarah, it is very odd for the news not to be posted on either website—the 10/27 release was almost instantly. Then we have all these Archbishops in town, they’re probably distracted. Just TFC & Truro have us well trained:

“If a journalist wants your input about our discernment and the anticipated upcoming vote about our relationship with The Episcopal Church, please be considerate and cautious with your remarks. Please make it clear to the journalist that your remarks are yours as a parishioner and not on behalf of the clergy, vestry or the entire congregation. Our clergy and wardens are prepared to speak to journalists on a case-by-base basis.” (standard disclaimer)

The Os thread was more fun:

Yeah, you do have to feel sorry for any parishioner who’s in line just afterwards. Actually how would you like to be Tom Wilson, Senior Warden or Rev. John Yates? Having Os give you instruction.

While Os is the most famous, there are a few theologians who can make you feel sorry for those running a parish meeting.

Sarah, you boldness in posting this news is causing me to rethink your monicker.

Hosea 6:6 and all, No one has ever been baptized an Episcopalian but a member of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. That loyalty is first!

To Greg Griffin and John Geurnsey,
Or you can cut to the chase and go here which just gives you access to the charts without any of the other text:
<a href=“http://12.0.101.92/Charts.aspx”>
Hope this is helpful.

Truro’s website now has a letter to the parish from the Senior Warden, Jim Oakes:

http://truro.timberlakepublishing.com/content.asp?contentid=15342

TLC has an article with some numbers to put this in perspective here:
http://www.livingchurch.org/publishertlc/viewarticle.asp?ID=2758

“The conference, sponsored by St. Stephen’s in Richmond, starts tomorrow and will lead Virginia into the glorious, post-Christian, labyrinth-walking future.”

Know what the secret to walking a maze is?  Always turn to the Left! 

Bob Maxwell+ Thank you! Yeah, I know that. That’s what I affirm. I think I spent too much time trying to listen to the double speak & de-spin the spin to end up confused. I feel better already, what a difference a changed perspective makes.

Has anyone else taken a look at the “stuff” that the Executive Council came up with today?  Article on ENS.  It’s enough to make your blood boil.  Translation:  TEC prepares for battle.

“The horse is made ready for the day of battle,but the victory belongs to the LORD.”

The intercessors have been engaged in the battle already. We are gifted with many talented people, our counselor is wonderful, but this battle is not won by might or skill, but by God’s Spirit.

AMEN!!

Lakeland Two, yes that is exactly how I interpreted it too.

http://www.episcopalchurch.org/3577_79758_ENG_HTM.htm

So interesting to have that posted on the day the news from Truro & Falls breaks.  More clarity.

Does anyone know which 11th Circuit Court of Appeals Judge is referenced as a consultant to the TEC property dispute task force? I am very surprised that an active federal appellate judge, one step below the U.S. Supreme Court, would be advising TEC on disputes that could spin off federal claims—claims that could ultimately come before his Court.

What wonderful examples of godly leadership and behavior we have seen in both of these churches, from the rectors to the vestry to the congregations.  I pray that others out there will follow the model that The Falls Church and Truro have so faithfully and carefully provided.  This news is not unexpected, given the current reality of TEC, and should be an encouragement to all those seeking a faithful pathway forward.  Thanks be to God for the leaders in both of these congregations all the ways they have reflected His glory.

Timothy,

Don’t know which but here’s an alphabetical list of the judges for the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Judicial Circuit which is based in Atlanta and covers Alabama, Florida and Georgia.  The main office is in Atlanta with a satellite office in Miami, and two “unmanned” offices in Montgomery and Jacksonville.  Following this list is the list of the Executive Council, although this judge may not be officially on the roster.  I hope that whoever has to go through this court keeps this in mind (and my diocese–Cent. Fla.  is in it).

Hon. R. Lanier Anderson
Hon. Rosemary Barkett
Hon. Stanley F. Birch, Jr.     
Hon. Susan H. Black      
Hon. Ed Carnes
Hon. Emmett Ripley Cox
Hon. Joel F. Dubina
Hon. J.L. Edmondson
Hon. John C. Godbold (Chief Judge)   
Hon. James C. Hill    
Hon. Frank M. Hull
Hon. Peter T. Fay    
Hon. Phyllis A. Kravitch
Hon. Stanley Marcus
Hon. William H. Pryor Jr.
Hon. Paul H. Roney
Hon. Gerald Bard Tjoflat    
Hon. Charles R. Wilson    
   

Executive Council
Name/Position /Term Ending   Diocese/Province

Alvarez, The Rt. Rev. David /  Puerto Rico, IX
Anderson, Ms. Bonnie (Vice-Chair), President, House of Deputies~ / 0   Michigan, V
Anderson, The Rev. Cn. Tim / 2012   Nebraska, VI
Ballentine Esq., Rosalie Simmonds / 2012   Virgin Islands, II
Barnes, Mr. N. Kurt (Treasurer)~ / 0   New York, II
Beasley, Ms. Hisako Miyazaki / 2012   Olympia, VIII
Beers, Mr. David Booth, Chancellor to the PB~ / 0   Washington, III
Bowden, Mr. R.P.M. / 2009   Atlanta, IV
Bruno, The Rt. Rev. J. Jon / 2012   Los Angeles, VIII
Byham Esq., Edgar K. / 2009   Newark, II
Conboy, Ms. Marian , Staff Ass’t for Legislation+ / 0   Long Island, II
Crawford, The Rev. Dr. Lee Alison / 2012   Vermont, I
Dawkins, Ms. Cheryl J., Staff Ass’t for Administration+ / 0   Newark, II
Denton, Ms. Sharon F. / 2009   Western Kansas, VII
Douglas, The Rev. Dr. Ian T. / 2012   Massachusetts, I
Fuller, Ms. Dorothy J. / 2009   El Camino Real, VIII
Gamarra, The Rev. F. N. / 2012   Los Angeles, VIII
Garner, Mr. E. Bruce / 2012   Atlanta, IV
Glover, Dr. Delbert C. / 2012   Western Massachusetts, I
Gossen, Mr. Thomas R. / 2009   Kansas, VII
Griswold, The Most Rev. Frank T. (Chair), PB & Primate~ / 2006   Chicago, V
Harris, Mrs. Bettye Jo / 2012   Hawaii, VIII
Harris, The Rev. Cn. Mark / 2012   Delaware, III
Helt, Ms. Angela / 2012   Oklahoma, VII
Hicks, Ms. Josephine H. / 2009   North Carolina, IV
Holguín, The Rt. Rev. Julio Cesar / 2009   Dominican Republic, IX
Jefferts Schori, The Rt. Rev. Katharine , Presiding Bishop-elect~ / 0   Nevada, VIII
Jennings, The Rev. Gay C. / 2012   Ohio, V
Johnson, Dr. Ellie , Anglican Church of Canada - Rep.+ / 0  
Kimbrough, The Rev. Timothy E. / 2009   North Carolina, IV
McPhee, Ms. Sandra F. / 2009   Chicago, V
Mollegen Jr., Mr. Albert T. / 2009   Connecticut, I
Mordecai, Mrs. Patricia C., Chief Operating Officer, DFMS~ / 0   New York, II
Presler, The Rev. Titus L. / 2009   Texas, VII
Ramos-Orench, The Rt. Rev. Wilfrido / 2009   Ecuador, IX
Riley, The Rev. Canon Gregg L. / 2012   Western Louisiana, VII
Roberts, Ms. Terry / 2009   Minnesota, VI
Rodman, The Rev. Canon Edward W. / 2009   Massachusetts, I
Sabune, The Very Rev. Petero A. N. / 2012   New York, II
Sauls, The Rt. Rev. Stacy F. / 2009   Lexington, IV
Stark, Mr. Dennis E. / 2009   Rhode Island, I
Straub, The Rev. Dr. Gregory S., Secretary, General Convention~ / 0   Easton, III
Vanderstar, Mr. John / 2009   Washington, III
Varghese, The Rev. Winnie S. / 2012   New York, II
Wesley, The Rev. Andrew , Anglican Council of Indigenous People - Canada+ / 0  
Yumoto, Mr. Ted M. / 2009   San Joaquin, VIII
Zeigler, The Hon. Belton / 2012   Upper South Carolina, IV

Also, the ENS article states:

Lexington Bishop Stacy Sauls gave the council a written report about the work of the House of Bishops Task Force on Property Disputes, whose work began at the September 2005 House of Bishops meeting and was sanctioned by the council earlier this year.

At that time, the council appropriated $100,000 for the task force’s work. The group also has $25,000 available to it from the Church Pension Fund. The task force has not yet spent any of the money, according to the group’s written report.

Lawyers, including several diocesan chancellors and a judge on the 11th U.S. District Court of Appeals, serve as consultants to the bishops.

...Why is money from the Church Penson Fund being used at all, much less for “property disputes”.  Not that any objection would be heard anyway.

BTW - I made a mistake about the list of problem dioceses on the ENS site somewhere.  I was wrong in my assumption that the list was incomplete. 

The T19 Elf put it best:  The “and” after the semicolon is to introduce the final item in the list of bulleted points. See the next bulleted list in the ENS where EXACTLY the same thing is done. There is a semicolon and then “and” to introduce the final item in the list.

So to all, my apologies.

I know several of these Justices who I can say with certainty are not be involved because of age or religous beliefs, but I am reluctant to speculate about the identity of the Judge referenced by Bishop Sauls without more information.  I continue to be befuddled that a sitting 11th Circuit Judge would serve as a legal consultant on property matters to TEC, which is the implication of Bishop Sauls statement.  Something is amiss here.