Episcopalians Smarter than Catholics?

Have you ever noticed that people who think there are too many children in the world never seem to include themselves in the excess?

< Groan! >  I could not bear to read the entire interview.  :(  All I can say is Ms. Jefferts-Schori is one lost soul.  She needs our prayers like all non-believers, but in the meantime TEC is no longer a “C.”  It is an embarrasing abomination of desolation, if I may loosely use this morning’s Gospel reading.

Either NYT did their usual “credible” editing job (note the brevity of the answers), or this is really “stream of consciousness.”

To use one of my favorite phrases (as the PB says), “Oy, vey.”

I’m trying to identify the faces on the mug.  Is that GK Chesterton and Flannery O’Connor?  Who are the others?

Staying with the coffee theme, could you see the “Episcopalians/Catholics/Mormons” quote on a Starbucks cup? 

She’s “EXSHORIATING” the faith once delievered. 

EXSHORIATE:  to attempt to explain important aspects of the faith in short, uninformed, vapid responses…

The reason why Episcopalians tend to reproduce at lower rates is that they are on average FIFTY SIX!!

It just gets curiouser ad curiouser!

NYT: Episcopalians aren’t interested in replenishing their ranks by having children?

KJS: No. It’s probably the opposite. We encourage people to pay attention to the stewardship of the earth and not use more than their portion.

This is probably one of the more disgusting comments she has made. Not only does the Episcopal Church not encourage more children (because we are better educated) but we “do the opposite”??

She’s right, we encourage birth control for married couples and support abortion in order to be “good stewards of the environment”

Talk about a reversal of the created order. In Genesis being good stewards of creation included the command to increase and multiply.

At least we can be comforted that with this attitude revisionists won’t be around much longer. They are stewarding themselves out of existence for the sake of the trees.

We are rightly cautioned against stereotyping people, but this is the stereotype of the secular academic on display.  Highly competent, perhaps brilliant in their specialty, they show true cluelessness outside that area.  Alll that makes it remarkable is that she is the head of a denomination.

This is supposed to be an intelligent woman?  It does not seem that she thinks through the implications of what she says.  She may think that she is speaking to people who share her worldview and so will know exactly what she is talking about, because what she says is simply the blather of “progressives” affirming each other’s wisdom.  But she is talking to the whole country, and many will not share her perspective or her values.  It will be interesting to see how she is regarded by people at large a year from now.

Just when I think I can’t be surprised by anything else she or any other of our leaders says.  Oh my.

That mug is a work of pure genius.  I scared some folks in my office I burst out laughing so hard when I saw it on Amy Welborn.
http://amywelborn.typepad.com/openbook/2006/11/an_interview_th.html

+KJS could turn into one of the best recruiters for Rome yet.  Sigh.

Karen - you may have stumbled on the answer!  It is so clear now.  High level conspiracy.  Back room meetings.  I wonder ....  exactly how much commission per convert she is getting?

We’re about being comprehensive.

In the answer to the very next question:

but Episcopalians tend to be better-educated and tend to reproduce at lower rates than some other denominations.

Oh my, let’s forget theology for a second. Now what was the suggested penalty for violoation the Law of noncontradiction? Okay, they’re in two seporate answers, but back-to-back? Ouch! The PB keeps hurting my head, I’ve not even gotten to an analysis of the theology, the basic contructs are not making rational sense.

Thankfully there’s a vote coming up in my parish, where hopefully I can take my lower education outside her comprehensive domain, so she can be a little more inclusive.

Episcopalians aren’t interested in replenishing their ranks by having children?

No. It’s probably the opposite. We encourage people to pay attention to the stewardship of the earth and not use more than their portion.

All this nonsense about environmental responsibility is just eyewash.  The marginal impact of one child on the Earth is too insignificant to be noticed, and in any case must be balanced against what the individual produces during his life.  People not only consume. They produce.

On the other hand, the marginal impact of an additional child on a family is huge.  This additional child may not consume much in the way of global resources but he consumes an extraordinary portion of family resources.  As it is written “Where your money is, there your heart is also.”  I think we have to look elsewhere for the source of this idea that children are a curse upon the Earth.

carl

Good point carl,

I’ve met many Episcopalians with something like this attitude: What with our three car payments and mortgage on our expensive home, not to mention that we travel to Europeevery summer, well we just “can’t afford” a child.

Is it really that the “earth in balance” or is it that kids make it difficult to live comfortably?

In other areas of human endeavour, when someone even highly placed makes defamatory and inflammatory remarks their resignation often follows in short order. SO the question arises should the church be more like baseball, or should baseball be more like the Church?

There is only one reason to care about what Schori says and that is that she may continue to drive more people to finally respond to “Choose You This Day.”  Have you decided yet?  (Oh, did I say that?  I’m schori you were offended.)

CJ blatantly ripped off the Charlie Raingull image I did last week. I am drawing up presentment charges as we speak, and I plan to have MCJ declared vacant. Unless, of course, royalty pledges start flowing my way pronto.

I can’t get a good look at the lady on the mug, but I believe it’s Eudora Welty, not Flannery O’Connor (interesting trivia: O’Conno’r nephew Edward is rector at St.-Peter’s-by-the-Sea in Gulfport).

Is KJS REALLY so insulated that she does not understand that she is MAKING HERSELF a caricature by giving these [poorly thought-out, I hope] interviews?
Does she not understand that she comes across as a theological lightweight? 
As the head of a church, she is an embarrassment, but I suppose the whole idea over the past 40 years was to achieve congruency with the political far left and fulfill the HUMANIST MANIFESTO.
May God have mercy on her.

This is just wrong on so many levels, I hardly know where to begin.  The smugness, the arrogance, the typical liberal condescension toward others—and beneath it all, the increasingly desperate spin.  “Our church is dying out ‘cause, um, uh… we’re environmentally responsible!!  Yeah that’s it!”

This is going to come back to haunt her in a big way at the next ecumenical conference.  Assuming anyone invites her…

This is so offensive on so many levels that I feel justified moving beyond the bounds of courtesy, even after having reviewed the Matthew 5 text - because I certainly do not hate Mrs. Schori, and I do pray she will come to the Father.

SHE’S AN IDIOT.

And I always thought that Episcopalians were just too old to procreate.  How do a bunch of seventy and eighty year olds procreate?  Alas, I think that horse left the barn many years ago. 

Gimmie an A. Gimmie another A. Gimmie another A. Gimmie an R. Gimmie a G. Gimmie an H. Gimmie an exclamation point.

What’s that spell? AAARGH!

Funny, that didn’t make me feel a bit better.

the snarkster returns

Is it just me, or does the Presiding Bishop seem to be woefully unprepared for interviews?  In the interviews I have read/heard so far, she has managed to say something which would be offensive to any traditional Episcopalian - or Christian, for that matter. In each interview, the interviewer offered a chance, via follow-up question, for the PB to take her foot out of her mouth. In each interview, she insisted on inserting said foot further in. So I am left to conclude that the Presiding Bishop not only knows that what she is saying is deeply offensive, she does not care one whit! 

The metaphorical “Christ event”! ; I echo my friend, the Snarkster - AAARGH!!

I agree, Allen, and I issue a public plea for every major media organization to continue doing Schori interviews.

The image that springs to mind is of a zealous gunner in a helicopter who doesn’t realize he’s firing into his own tail rotor.  She has practically done more damage to the Episcopal Church in a few months than Griswold did in nine years.

From left to right, it’s Augustine, Anselm, Thomas Aquinas, Chesterton, Flannery O’Connor and Eudora Welty.

Save your effort, Griffith.  I’ve been vacant for a decade or two now. 

Ahhhh! Now I get it. The TEC is shrinking on purpose!!

Its got nothing to do with chasing people away with the “gospel of inclusion”  Nahhhhh…

She has practically done more damage to the Episcopal Church in a few months than Griswold did in nine years.

Phil: You may be on to something there. Maybe all those moderate/conservatives who voted for her at GC06 prophetically knew she was going to do just as she has. If you really wanted to move things along and get a little clarity, ++She’s your man.

the snarkster returns

The more Mrs Jefferts-Schori speaks, the further down her throat her foot goes!  My God, what hath The Episcopal “Church” wrought?!

Episcopalians Smarter than Catholics?

Not if this interview is any indication.

At least I didn’t catch her using the word breeder.

There goes Mrs. Schori showing off her keen intellect and listening skills. Looks to me as though Little Bo Peep is about to lose a whole bunch more sheep.

All the points are well-taken here, especially Matt’s and Carl’s. 

Let me see if I have this straight: 

1)  “Episcopalians tend to be better-educated than everybody else”...boy, it’s a shame about you Catholics, Baptists, Presbys, Lutherans, etc.—the autocratic elitists over here are thoroughly enjoying their masters’, PhD’s, omniscience, and egocentrism… 

2) Having a lot of kids = being a bad steward of the Earth and using more than your “portion”...

Thus, having a lot of kids is not a good thing. We’re so omniscient over here we’ll even dictate how many kids people should or should not have. 

Boy, these statements are just as pastoral and “inclusive” as the wonderful “this isn’t your grandmother’s church anymore”, despite the fact that the membership still consists of a vast majority of people over 50, with a lot of said people having the money that is paying the national church’s bills, and otherwise. 

What exactly is this, the MDG version of “Christian” evangelism?!! 

God Save Us All…

If smarter = less kids, then God must not be so bright.  He’s at a billion+ and counting, eh?

Reading the Rev’d Ms. Schori’s interview in conjunction with the lovely mash piece in the NYTimes Sunday Magazine on the natural superiority and excellence of gay parenting, I was led to a renewed hope for the institution once known as ECUSA. Sipping sherry (a sure sign of intelligence and Episcopal-hood) and “procreating” children, the great numbers of gay parents and their offspring will flood into the “church” in increasing numbers (as they have done these oh, so many years) thus reversing the decline in membership and average Sunday attendance. I’m surprised the usually perceptive Ms. Schori hasn’t already detected the trend.

Hey, that’s RIGHT!  Little Bo Peep IS losing her “sheep,” isn’t she!  Right along with her marbles!

So much for knowing a lot about science, reproduction, intelligence, or natural selection—if the smart don’t reproduce, their gene pool(i.e. including innate “brains”) dies with them…not a very good scenario/strategic plan for the perpetuation of the environment—Darwin’s buddy NS will eat up the weak and the stupid, right?  But, that doesn’t add much to the arena of appealing Radical sound bytes…

I’m out of here, before I get any more loony—Cheers to all and Prayers for all…

Jen

“Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?”

Schori presumes that Episcopalians advocate the practice of birth control, and links the level of education inversely to demonstrable fecundity. My question is, Does she speak for the majority of American Anglicans? (Presumably, Yes)

If so, and if the majority of American Anglicans thereby constitute a consensus fidelium and hence, evidence of magisterial authority, what does one make of its rather flip-flopping nature?

Or perhaps the consensus of ECUSAns, ie. that sex and intended procreation may licitly be separated, is evidence of their lack of divine favour and hence, magisterial efficacy?

The following article is insightful, linking Anglican equivocation on articifial contraception and a papal encyclical Casti Connubii:

<a href=“http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/mhull_marrfamily_mar05.asp”>

I must say I have serious doubts whether the Episcopal Church or even Anglicanism at large is reformable. Living amongst the ruins (Reno), admitting the Holy Spirit has abandoned the Church (Radner), seem rather like despair when there’s a Church out there that seems remarkably resilient against all this apostacy that characterised the ‘Church that Henry Built’.

But that’s just me.

[ meaning: how can WE rid ourselves of PB Schori]

“Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?”

“~Episcopalians tend to be better-educated and tend to reproduce at lower rates than some other denominations. Roman Catholics and Mormons both have theological reasons for producing lots of children.”
“~We encourage people to pay attention to the stewardship of the earth and not use more than their portion.”
“~I understand the great creation story in the scientific sense — big bang and evolutionary theory — as the best understanding of how we have come to be what we are: not the meaning behind it, but the process behind it.”
* Have you met Pope Benedict?
“~I have not. I think it would be really interesting.”
I wonder how interesting Pope Benedict would find meeting with KJS???  ...I guess TEC got what they asked for in their new PB.

The notion that an Episcopalians are curbing their families out of environmental concerns is the most absurd statement I have ever heard.

Glad she is not my Presiding Bishop!

If you really believe in nothing, you have nothing to pass on to the next generation and you have no reason to produce the next generation.  Look at Europe.

In a very small Mission, we have added three new families, with children, because word has gotten out that we are firmly standing for the faith handed down. This increases our 60 families to 63, probably explosive growth by TEC standards. The fact that we have 4X as many children as we had before had ignited new energy in our aging congregation. We are not stealing sheep, but our reputation of orthodoxy is making it much easier for young families to join us.

If this is her idea, we shall not have to worry about TEC too much longer. Just as some other heretical groups in the Church’s past with extreme views about having children, they will render themselves extinct in short order. Give Schori a Darwin Award! Darwin wasn’t completely wrong about Natural Selection.

cannyscot

Talk about a reversal of the created order. In Genesis being good stewards of creation included the command to increase and multiply.

In the creation account, God tells people to be fruitful and multiply, to fill the earth and subdue it. Don’t people now inhabit every region? Don’t human activities affect pretty much every square inch of the planet’s surface? How much fuller and more subdued does the earth have to get before this command can be considered to have been completed?

She’s never met Benedict…and she never will.
The ABC should thank her though because he is assured of a very warm reception from the Pope, after all the Anglican Church, especially TEC, has single handedly helped to dismiss the serious consideration of women’s ordination for the next 50 years at least.
Women priests=Women Bishops=Apostasy=Schism.
Religion isn’t about rights…it’s about what’s Right.

My husband and I have 4 adult children who have produced “many” grandchildren (I have a book to keep up with ages and birthdays there are so many!).  They were all “smart” enough to raise their children outside of the Episcopal Church where they were raised.  Our family has taken seriously “go forth and multiply” but TEC is not the beneficiary of these bright young Christians.  I use to regret that—now I am appreciating it.

bigjimintx:

“Staying with the coffee theme, could you see the “Episcopalians/Catholics/Mormons” quote on a Starbucks cup? “

I’d restate that as “Staying with the coffee theme, could you see ‘Episcopalians’ on the small size, ‘Mormons’ on the medium size and ‘Catholics’ on the large size” on a Starbucks cup.” (Perhaps vice versa on the last two!)  However, the small cup gets smaller and smaller each time you go to Starbucks.

As a Roman Catholic Cleric, who does not recoginize Anglican or Episcopal Orders, I find the Presiding Bishops comments funny and sad at the same time.  It is a though a clown is trying to be taken seriously.  As one Catholic Bishop once told me: The Episcopalians are simply to be likened as Chiropractors trying to be taken seriously by the Medical community”.

Sad,  so very sad.  My prayers are for those in TEC who are truly trying to keep themselves together throughout this very difficult time.  God Bless.