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Friday Morning Press Conference: The Covenant…No Rules, Just Relationship (important to read)

Friday, August 1, 2008 • 4:23 am


I’m sitting in the press room waiting for the morning briefing to begin. We are watching a video presentation on the concept of Covenant. These are brief, five minute videos, intended to provide a thematic context for the briefing and for the day.

Today’s theme, in keeping with the video, is “The Bishop, the Anglican Covenant and the Windsor Process.”

Canon Paul: Thank you for coming. It’s great to see you and have you do all the reporting you are doing. I come from the Anglican Church in Canada and am part of the communications team at Lambeth

The theme for today is “Fostering our Common Life: The Bishop, the Anglican Covenant and the Windsor Process.”

The spouses are running a parallel process.

Spouse briefing…they are thinking today about empowering themselves and others in their dioceses and provinces for services. The entire program today will be in French and they will be hearing stories from Burundi, about children with HIV there, and Latin America and from Madagascar who will be at the press conference later. They are moving toward how they can go home and take the things they have gained home with them after the conference.

Canon Paul: The program today is al little altered. There is another Reflection at 2:00pm and then they will go back into their indaba groups for a second session. This is not their usual pattern.
The 1:30pm conference will feature ++Drexel Gomez and ++Trevor Mwamba from Botswana to speak about the Covenant process.

As far as I know any outstanding questions have been answered. If you have more please let me know afterwards

As a guest this morning we have Gregory Cameron, the Deputy Secretary of the Anglican Communion Office

Cameron: Very good to see you all and to see a side of the Conference I have yet to see. I would like to say 4 things about covenant.

1. Why are we using the word “covenant”? Covenant is a strong biblical term and it is used in the bible to describe the committed relationship between God and his people. Christians talk about two biblical covenants, the first covenant between God and Israel and the second between God and Christ. So the word is about committed relationships. So the idea of the covenant is to talk about committed relationships that hold the AC together. What is the glue that makes the Anglican Communion hold together? And the idea of the covenant is to express that explicitly and in one document the glue that holds the churches of the communion together. The design group under Archbishop Gomez said there are three strands that hold the AC together and they will be my next three points.

2. The first strand is our common inheritance in faith, the Christian faith as Anglicans have received it. You will find in section 1.1 of the Covenant draft a brief explanation of the faith based on the Creeds and the sacraments and the scriptures.

3. The second theme is the Anglican mission. What is it the Anglican churches are called to do together? What is it that binds them into the future? The second section talks about the Anglican mission, it talks at bout the history of Anglican mission and the 5 marks of mission that were developed and these five are found in section 2.1

4. The third part talks about our interdependence. What are the things that hold us together? Recently the 4 Instruments of Unity, the Lambeth Conference, the ACC, the ABC, and the Primates meeting have been recognized. And so in section 3 there is a description of these mechanisms.

Across those three sections there are 2 parts:

1. The Covenant begins by affirming what Anglicans have received. The faith, the mission, the instruments of communion.
2. The second section articulates the commitments that need to be made to keep these things alive and fresh. Each of these sections asks churches to make a commitment to the above affirmations.

The Saint Andrews draft added an appendix because the question arose: if there is a dispute about whether the covenant has been violated, how do you resolve the dispute? The appendix was the first draft of an attempt to resolve that question. That attempt was advised by certain canon lawyers so we should not be surprise that it looks legalistic. They said that the laws need to follow the principles of natural justice. There is a great deal of anxiety about a juridical form of covenant because a covenant should not be about laws but about relationships.

So the present draft is with the provinces and it is being discussed here at the Lambeth Conference. The bishops here are not being asked to vote on a covenant but to add their own reflections, what they like and what they have reservations about.

That will be fed into the next meeting of the Covenant design group in September in Singapore

Questions

Q: What impact does the absence of the other bishops have?

A: People are very concerned that they should be drawn into the process of discernment, the Secretary General will be writing to them with an account of these discussions here and asking them to contribute their response. There is a strong feeling that if it is to work it must be owned by the whole of the Communion.

Q: Can you clarify what can change in the Covenant?

A: The bishops are not being asked to change or alter the draft. It is for the provinces to respond and they have to respond by next March and then a third text will be produced that could be radically different. It is the provinces that drive the process of decision. We are asking the bishops to advise the provinces and allow the provinces to take their commentary onto account in their considerations.

Q: can you say what will happen to any province that does not sign on to the Covenant?

A: That question has been asked theoretically in two papers. One, the earlier paper, was entitled “Toward an Anglican Covenant” and it asked that question in a preliminary way and that paper was developed by the Archbishop of Canterbury in a second paper, “Challenge and hope for the Anglican Communion” and both papers say if a given church does not sign on to the Covenant it does not cease to be Anglican but it will live in different relationship to the churches that do. \

No further reflection at the moment has been done on that. Right now, we want to test out whether all can sign up to a covenant in principle. The first question in the consultation with the provinces is: is your province willing to give into the “principle” of the covenant without necessarily giving in yet to a particular text. We want to know if the idea in principle is acceptable.

Conger: If a diocese or province is not willing to sign in principle, is the covenant process able to acknowledge that division? And, second question, since the process of decision making is so different in each of the provinces, why are you taking this at the provincial level rather than the diocesan level?

A: The group decided the covenant ought to be envisaged as existing between the churches of the communion, the provinces. The question was asked early on, what if a province signs on but a diocese does not? The answer was that at the moment we are playing specifically for provincial support. The covenant is a relational document and therefore I do not see why a diocese cannot declare itself in sympathy with the covenant if its province signs on but the aim, at this point, is to seek provincial approval

Q: Can you clarify the timeline in terms of when a final decision will be taken and which body will take that decision and whether that body makes final decisions

A: The St. Andrew’s draft is currently in two places: here at Lambeth with the bishops and in the provinces. What the Lambeth Conference will do today is compile a commentary which will be given to the meeting of the Design Group in Singapore and this will provide an authentic account from the bishops. The provinces will give their answers at the end of March next year and then there will be a third draft of the Covenant by May of next year. The ACC will then be given the answers to the tree questions being asked of the provinces:

1. Is the province willing in principle to sign on to a covenant?
2. What will a given province have to do internally in order to sign on to a covenant
3. What changes will they need to see in order to get a realistic prospect for signing up.

If 34 provinces come back and say we do not want a covenant then, most likely, we will not push ahead. But if a substantial number want to proceed, then ACC14 will decide whether to put the question to the provinces.

The process of acceptance would be different in each province. TEC, for example, may need to put it up to a General Convention or two General Conventions. The Canadian church would put it before their Synod or maybe two Synods. The provinces make the final decisions. There is no legal body forcing this on the provinces, they are the decision makers. 

Sugden: Is it true that the substance of the discussion is the nature of the culture of Anglicanism? In the video someone says ‘we don’t want a legal structure for relationships’. I have a list of hundreds of depositions here from TEC. Is it the case that some provinces operate strictly legally and others operate in a more relational way?

A: I would be cautious about commenting about the internal process of a given church. In a time of tension people slip into ways of relating that do not represent its best. As Anglican Christian we prefer a model of relationship. The covenant is about the holistic nature of Anglicanism and the relationships that one Christian has with another and about the way one church relates to another.

Q: If we start from an optimistic point that all subscribe to the covenant, who will be responsible for managing the thing if one part of the communion violates the covenant? Who will have the judicial responsibility?

A: It would be true to say, to get the right mechanism to deal with that problem, is the most difficult process of Covenant design. The section that deals with this is called, “The devil is in the details”. I think we need to go back to classic Anglican ecclesiology. The classic Anglican understanding of the church; and that understanding is that the church is embodied in national provinces.

And therefore the life if the communion is about these bodies living in relationship. The only people who can decide that relationships are broken are the 38 provinces themselves. All must have a way to speak with a clear voice, not with a judge over them, but a method where they can speak effectively and not be judged.

Q: The Anglican Communion is “messy” according to Steven Sykes. What would you say to the thought that the Covenant runs against the grain of that?

A: I do not see it as changing the nature of Anglicanism. It is only making explicit what was previously implicit in our lives. We have tended to cooperate on a relational level. There is no common understanding or answer to the question of how we come to a community discussion.

At the last General Convention in the TEC, they were asked to consider the WR requests and to express regret for breaking the “bonds of affection”. Speaker after speaker said “We do not know what the bonds are so how could we break them?” The Covenant is trying to articulate the answer to that question, to articulate the way the Anglican Communion operates, not create a new kind of church.

Q: Yesterday ++Orombi said that the Instruments of Communion have utterly failed. Since you represent one of those Instruments, what hope do you have when more than half of the Communion already says it will not sign on?

A: we must take very seriously the point of view of any primate or House of Bishops and I am saddened and disappointed that this is his understating at the moment. In the end it will only work if it is owned by the churches themselves. The question they must ask is, do they like what is being offered?

If the answer is no, that is the acid test, we cannot force this on anyone. It is a voluntary association.

Q: If Nigeria and Uganda will not sit down with you until TEC is disciplined what hope is there? (I missed this question but I believe that was the gist)

A: If the AC declines into legalism, calling each other into account through discipline we will have lost something vital. It is about striking a balance, giving enough substance to our structures that they exist but not so much that they bind us into a narrow straightjacket.

end


43 Comments • Print-friendlyPrint-friendly w/commentsShare on Facebook
Comments:

Partway through this as I am writing ... Again, the authority has been moved from the bishops and primates to committees appointed by Canterbury.

[1] Posted by Katherine on 08-01-2008 at 03:58 AM • top

What to do with a “process” that produces no results?  Even Rube Goldberg eventually got a light switch flipped.

[2] Posted by midwestnorwegian on 08-01-2008 at 04:58 AM • top

If the AC declines into legalism, calling each other into account through discipline we will have lost something vital.

Yeah, idjit.  Better to lose membership than the thrill of anarchy on a global basis.

The Decennial Circus closes in 2 days.
Thanks be to God.

[3] Posted by bigjimintx on 08-01-2008 at 04:58 AM • top

I just can’t take it anymore.  This is entire sordid event reminds of a book, I think it is titled WE WERE THE MULVANEYS

[4] Posted by ty1028 on 08-01-2008 at 05:10 AM • top

...if a given church does not sign on to the Covenant it does not cease to be Anglican but it will live in different relationship to the churches that do.

Nine years ago in an essay on Broken Communion, I devised what I called the “Baal test” of fellowship. If the Episcopal Church were to propose substituting the word “Baal” in the Prayer Book wherever “Christ” appears, would that, I asked, constitute grounds for breaking communion with the Episcopal Church?

If I understand the ABC and Covenant Group properly, such a Baal-confessing church could not in good conscience sign on to the Covenant and would “live in a different relationship” with covenanting churches. However, that would not change its Anglican and provincial status nor would it allow for an alternative Christ-confessing church to be recognized in its place as a member of the Communion.

For those who think that the blessing of homosexual unions is sin and soul-threatening to those involved (practicing or promoting), the analogy is apt.

GAFCON clearly has a different approach to the meaning of koinonia among the churches.

[5] Posted by Stephen Noll on 08-01-2008 at 05:54 AM • top

Ask yourself:  Do you think Canterbury is more willing to give up the United States, or Nigeria?  Do you think the designers of the covenant or more likely to bend over backwards to accommodate the United States, or Uganda?  Chile, or Canada?

The Global South is not truly part of the Anglican Country Club.  At best, they are only paid attention to so that the Anglican Country Club can say “Look, we care about all the brown poor people”.  Will they really be missed if they leave?  Just look at the posts of Mad Potter to get your answer.

[6] Posted by AndrewA on 08-01-2008 at 06:02 AM • top

The gist of his comments towards discipline amount to “Well, it would be really, really bad if we if we had to decide to discipline a church.”  I think TEC sees that, happily signs up, and keeps on trucking.  Of course, I guess we all knew the outcome before they had this big, expensive party.  There’s a lot more testosterone at a “Lesbians in America” summit sponsored by Integrity than at this jamboree.

[7] Posted by Looking for Leaders on 08-01-2008 at 06:03 AM • top

There is no joy in LAMBETH, the might ABC has struck out!

Come on home +Lawrence, its all over.

Grannie Gloria

[8] Posted by Grandmother on 08-01-2008 at 06:22 AM • top

A: If the AC declines into legalism, calling each other into account through discipline we will have lost something vital.
WE have already lost something vital.

[9] Posted by martin5 on 08-01-2008 at 06:23 AM • top

we cannot force this on anyone. It is a voluntary association.

There it is in full view.  Abp. Williams, the ACC, and TEC - the three actual instruments of communion (unity), the hyper-liberals decide that it is up to the orthodox to determine if they want to voluntarily associate with those in power who hold heretical positions.

Deputy Secretary Cameron, the hyper-liberals have indeed forced heresy on EVERYONE, so they now will accomplish what they set out to do some time ago, promote the departure of the orthodox to the point that their leaving looks like their own decision.

Can we now sum up the actions and statements of the 2008 Lambeth Conference (I know it’s not quite over yet):

Disingenuous
Duplicitous
Deceitful
Dastardly
Damaging

[10] Posted by Athanasius Returns on 08-01-2008 at 06:26 AM • top

Is it just me, or does the covenant appear to be shaping up like sort of special interest association crossed with the service mission of the Rotary Club? 

Then again, being a Rotarian may carry a greater level of responsibility… 

wink

(No offense intended to the good service provided by Rotarians.)

[11] Posted by tired on 08-01-2008 at 06:38 AM • top

“they bind us into a narrow straightjacket”

Yes, the Scriptures have a ‘frustrating’ way of doing that to us don’t they?

“It is about striking a balance, giving enough substance to our structures that they exist…”

If only Jesus had been as accommodating as these Anglicans we might never have had to split with the Pharisees and Sadducees.

[12] Posted by StephenSizer on 08-01-2008 at 06:50 AM • top

#5 Stephen Nolls+ said:

GAFCON clearly has a different approach to the meaning of koinonia among the churches.

  On that we surely agree.  GAFCON’s notion of church is entirely built on a confessing model.  Its invitation list was constructed on a model of orthodoxy and its primatial ruling body as arogated to itself the right to determine membership based on its decision on orthodoxy.  Its form of governance is a self-selected oligarchy. 

By contrast, the Communion seems to wish risking doctrinal pluralism for the sake of relationship/community There is an innate admission here that there may be an uncertainty, if not in scripture itself, our ability to interpret its meaning.  The Brothers Karamazov’s Grand Inquisitor offered a GAFCON like church.  It certainly is a lot easier and a lot less messy and certainly works for those who run it. 

GAFCON claims mem ership in the communion.  Will GAFCON submit to the will of the communion if the communion says no border-crossing?  Well +Nzimbi’s knee jerk reaction (He can do that he has “authority”) was no.

[13] Posted by EmilyH on 08-01-2008 at 06:56 AM • top

I may be wrong but I think both TEC and the African churches have said they will not sing this. Whats the point then. Just busy work and more time wasted. Matt whats your view?

[14] Posted by bob+ on 08-01-2008 at 07:06 AM • top

It would appear that if anyone wants to subscribe to the Covenant, you can be in a relationship.  If you want to break the covenant that’s okay to, because no one has the authority to do anything anyway.  So Let’s spin our wheels for another 4 years so that Tec can use it’s legalistic abilities to destroy what ever is left of the Orthodox/ Conservative / Evangelical / Anglo-Catholic.

It’s like seeing real life being lived out around the theme of Sesame Street.  Everyone is okay and what ever you do is okay. One, two, three, four, instruments of unity.  Five, five, five instruments of unity ha ... ha ... haaaaa ... If you want 6 or more that’s okay too.  Or perhaps just write your own, as everything has God in it anyway ... so write away ...  (sarcasm over)

Please Lord, Jesus, send your spirit down upon the faithful bishops to hear your word.  Let them do and act according to your word, not the word of heresy and damnation.  Let them all be wary of those addressed in 1 John 2:18-23. Then turn away and know that Jesus Christ is salvation, NOT the ABC or the PB.

[15] Posted by Fr. K on 08-01-2008 at 07:08 AM • top

sing= sign but them maybe they will not sing it either.

[16] Posted by bob+ on 08-01-2008 at 07:08 AM • top

O Lord,
I pray for a Church led by men and women with hearts like Zacchaeus—hungry for You, welcoming You into their homes, receiving You joyfully into their hearts, and loving You more than money.  Amen.

[17] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 08-01-2008 at 07:13 AM • top

A: If the AC declines into legalism, calling each other into account through discipline we will have lost something vital.

How odd Matt… from the way you transcribed that, it appears that he thinks that “legalism” and “calling each other to account through discipline” are the same thing.

Surely you got that wrong… right? < /sarcasm>

[18] Posted by Positive Phototaxis on 08-01-2008 at 07:19 AM • top

I have said all along that this is the direction things would go, not because I’m prescient, but because the ABC is far more straight forward and visionary than folks have given him credit. Just because he doesn’t dance every time a tune is played, doesn’t mean he has not been sincere about the covenantal relationship he wishes to establish in the AC.

[19] Posted by FrVan on 08-01-2008 at 07:25 AM • top

In RE the Anglican Covenant: no terms and conditions, just hugs and kisses.  Even God did better than that.  He gave Moses The Law.  The covenant relationship with Israel was given by the party of the first part to the party of the second part to accept or reject: no changes, no negotiations. “Choose ye this day whom ye will serve….”  Every relationship, no matter how intimate or friendly has it’s rules (laws) worked out by the parties in relationship.  If the rules get broken, a process of repentance and restoration of relationship ensues.  This is not legalism, this is how life in relationship works.
Perhaps we could have TEC as a guest on the Dr. Phil show. Maybe he could succeed where others have failed.  Barring that, when one party in a covenant doesn’t honor the covenant, they are no longer in that relationship.
++Cantuar, are you listening?
Dumb Sheep.

[20] Posted by dumb sheep on 08-01-2008 at 07:25 AM • top

What we see in the AC’s allergic reaction to “judicial” discipline is the working out of the Protestant principle of “private judgement”.

[21] Posted by phil swain on 08-01-2008 at 07:29 AM • top

It is the end of the AC and we are watching it happen. PRAY for the CHURCH.

[22] Posted by Sir Highmoor on 08-01-2008 at 07:31 AM • top

What an interesting world some must live in, where self governance equals arrogation of authority, doctrinal discipline is legalism, Anglicanism means uncertainty, and betrayal is building relationship.

wink

[23] Posted by tired on 08-01-2008 at 07:32 AM • top

Note that yesterday, Bishop John Howe said “one of the concerns we plan to share in the closing days of the Conference is the absolute necessity of having ratification of the Anglican Covenant take place at the DIOCESAN level, and not (just) the Provincial level.  We plan to remind our fellow Bishops of what the Archbishop of Canterbury wrote to me last October: “I would repeat what I’ve said several times before - that any diocese compliant with Windsor remains clearly in communion with Canterbury and the mainstream of the Communion, whatever may be the longer-term result for others in TEC. The organ of union with the wider Church is the bishop and the diocese rather than the Provincial structure as such…. “

I think Canon Cameron and the Anglican Communion Office just shot that down.  It is about the province, not the diocese.  I think the phrase would be that the Archbishop’s statement to Howe is “no longer operative”.

[24] Posted by pendennis88 on 08-01-2008 at 07:34 AM • top

Will GAFCON submit to the will of the communion if the communion says no border-crossing?  Well +Nzimbi’s knee jerk reaction (He can do that he has “authority”) was no.

What the communion says has never stopped TEC - are the rules different for the churches of GAFCon? I thought the only rule was that there are no rules?

[25] Posted by oscewicee on 08-01-2008 at 07:37 AM • top

A: If the AC declines into legalism, calling each other into account through discipline we will have lost something vital. It is about striking a balance, giving enough substance to our structures that they exist but not so much that they bind us into a narrow straightjacket.

What is left unsaid is: “We will allow liberal provinces to exercise any legalistic discipline they choose against their orthodox members, while restraining the orthodox from responding.” TEC is running out its orthodox clergy on rails, destroying orthodox congregations, and that is just fine with the folks at Lambeth, apparently.  This take on the Covenant is ENTIRELY different than that expressed both by (most of) the people who proposed it, and (most of) the people charged with developing it.

[26] Posted by tjmcmahon on 08-01-2008 at 07:39 AM • top

Tired, thank you for that succinct translation of the state of affairs. (#23)

[27] Posted by oscewicee on 08-01-2008 at 07:42 AM • top

#13, that is only your perception, but it is not the truth. 

The Jerusalem Declaration in no way sets up an oligarchy.  The fact is that an oligarchy already exists, and has from the first Lambeth on. 

The AC has been an ‘old boy’s club’ subject to political connivance and not holy convictions from the beginning.

I could go on and talk about the evidence fo oligarchy in last 5 years, but your perception is so oriented and slanted toward one position, I shall not.  Read the evidence. Read the Scripture. 
My prayers for you.

[28] Posted by Theodora on 08-01-2008 at 07:45 AM • top

It’s over.  Oh, it will take some time, but it’s over.  All that’s left is the recriminations, charges, counter-charges, haggling, fighting, etc….  It’s interesting that earlier Rowan said something to the effect that the church was not a bleeding, hunted animal with arrows sticking out of it.  I hate to tell him, but the church is about to get stuck with many more arrows in the weeks and months to come.

To string the analogy further, the church had some defenses available, it was just run by men who chose to stand in the middle of the field with a big X on their chest, and let all the enemies take free shots.  Given the lack of backbone to defend the church, what other outcome could have been expected? Weak people, weak structure, no spine, no courage, no vision.

[29] Posted by Looking for Leaders on 08-01-2008 at 07:55 AM • top

“The section that deals with this is called, “The devil is in the details”

This is a really unfortunate choice of words.

[30] Posted by PhilV on 08-01-2008 at 08:07 AM • top

As Ralph wrote on T19: 

“So much purple, so little purpose.”

[31] Posted by Floridian on 08-01-2008 at 08:22 AM • top

Honestly, they can’t get it together. The orhtodox bishops ought to leave and have a nice trip home to us and take us out of here. Classic anglicanism is the unit of the church is the province. Horsefeathers. It is the diocese. At least the ABC said so. Maybe he lied to Bishop Howe. It’s over. Just say NO and come home. It is time to pack. Kevin is right. It is the Last Lambeth in its sense of a united Anglican Communion. Now it is the Episcopal Communion. Bought and paid for. It is no longer a Christian Church. It is a brothal. Sex at the highest price. Or at the minimum a baal temple prostitution.

[32] Posted by Houseownedbythedog3 on 08-01-2008 at 08:22 AM • top

The orthodox bishops can come home and take us out of here, or we can pack our bags and leave on our own.  There are plenty of Continuing Churches around where we can worship the Lord with the Liturgy of the Word and have our souls fed by Holy Communion.  In my mind, that’s all that matters.

[33] Posted by CarolynP on 08-01-2008 at 08:29 AM • top

Amen.

[34] Posted by Houseownedbythedog3 on 08-01-2008 at 08:30 AM • top

Actually Rowan was right when he said the AC was not a hunted animal, bleeding with arrows sticking out of it.
The injuries are not from without. Akinola was right, it’s sick with cancer. The Doctors are meeting now and realize it is rapidly metastasizing.The cancer must be cut out, it can only spread now and there is no way for those cancer cells to revert. They do nothing because they do not wish to cripple the animal but the animal is already crippled.

[35] Posted by Rocks on 08-01-2008 at 08:32 AM • top

If the Anglican Communion is to survive, two things must happen:

1.  ++Orombi is correct, the ABC must be chosen by the greater body of the Communion, and not excluvisely by Her Majesty’s Government in Whitehall.  I commend the anecdotal evidence of the last two Popes.  JPII was the first non-Italian Pope elected by the College of Cardinals in…well forever it seems.  The Roman Church since then has been vibrant, active and (most of all) faithful to its dogma and doctrine.  (BTW: I do not make this assertion lightly.  I am big on tradition and recognize the importance of the ancient See of Canterbury.  I also recognize that in order for this to happen, the CofE will probably have to be disestablished; something that is not going to happen anytime soon.  But, reality is what it is.)

2.  The Anglican Communion must have a clearly defined means of enforcing dogma and doctrine across the 38 “autonomous” provinces.  Adiaphora is one thing, but matters of the faith must be of paramount importance to the Communion as a whole.

I know….many are screaming “PAPIST” at their screens right now.  May I respectfully request that you call me an “ANGLO-PAPIST” at least?  And, yes, I am still hoping for a reconciliation between the ancient Sees; but I’m not holding my breath.

[36] Posted by Sacerdotal451 on 08-01-2008 at 08:42 AM • top

3 money quotes that put the lie to Rowan Williams’ e-mail to Bishop Howe of Central Florida, USA, that said in effect that the diocese, not the province, is the foundational level of unity and communion with Canterbury.  How soon we forget! :

A: The group decided the covenant ought to be envisaged as existing between the churches of the communion, the provinces. The question was asked early on, what if a province signs on but a diocese does not? The answer was that at the moment we are playing specifically for provincial support. The covenant is a relational document and therefore I do not see why a diocese cannot declare itself in sympathy with the covenant if its province signs on but the aim, at this point, is to seek provincial approval.

So if TEC signs on to a milquetoast “covenant” then there is, in the mind of the covenant writers, NO legitimate alternate province (eg. CANA, AMiA, CCP, etc.) allowed thta would be considered in communion with Canterbury, and TEC is free to, even encouraged to, sue the hell out of dioceses and congregations and individual clergy, vestry members, church staff, and individual parishioners who don’t fall into line with its new non-Christian religion.  Think on that.  Let it sink in.  ++Orombi was right.  Rowan Williams has betrayed believing mere Christians into a Covenant design group that says that if wloves become the bishops and archbishop of a province, the sheep MUST stay in the wolves’ lair rather than flee to the safety of true shepherds.
Betrayal.  Betrayal.  Betrayal.

Sugden: Is it true that the substance of the discussion is the nature of the culture of Anglicanism? In the video someone says ‘we don’t want a legal structure for relationships’. I have a list of hundreds of depositions here from TEC. Is it the case that some provinces operate strictly legally and others operate in a more relational way?

A: I would be cautious about commenting about the internal process of a given church. In a time of tension people slip into ways of relating that do not represent its best. As Anglican Christian we prefer a model of relationship. The covenant is about the holistic nature of Anglicanism and the relationships that one Christian has with another and about the way one church relates to another.

Well, at least Greg Cameron understands, and apparently approves of, TEC’s poor, salndered, misunderstood, legitimate, all-excusing polity-god, whose only-begotten son is the Canons and Constitution of The Episcopal Church, may it be blessed forever.  I’m surprised the TEC bishops (most of them, anyway) weren’t high-fiving each other openly at that one.
Betrayal.  Betrayal.  Betrayal.

I think we need to go back to classic Anglican ecclesiology. The classic Anglican understanding of the church; and that understanding is that the church is embodied in national provinces.

And therefore the life if the communion is about these bodies living in relationship. The only people who can decide that relationships are broken are the 38 provinces themselves. All must have a way to speak with a clear voice, not with a judge over them, but a method where they can speak effectively and not be judged.

More confirmation of Rowan’s going back on his e-mail to +Howe.  As for the 38 provinces having the exclusive right to declare broken relationship, a majority have already declared themselves in broken or impaired relationship with TEC.  The only change is that where Rowan has before Lambeth subverted the attempts of the Primates of those provinces to discipline TEC for tearing the fabric of the communion at its deepest level, now the covenant would forever do away with the very possibility of discipline.
Betrayal.  Betrayal.  Betrayal.
Write “Ichabod”, “MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN” over the doors of Kent University and Lambeth 2008.
——————————————————————————
By the way, EmilyH, it’s the “Delphi Technique” we are seeing at Lambeth, not the “Delta Technique”, and since so many have attacks of the vapors when +KJS’ first name is mispelled, the correct spelling is “Stephen Noll” from his own comments, not “Stephen Nolls”.  But you speak more truth than you realize in your comment above and illustrate clearly that there really are two different, irreconcilable religions both claiming to be Christian and Anglican:
GAFCON’s notion of church is entirely built on a confessing model.  Its invitation list was constructed on a model of orthodoxy and its primatial ruling body as arogated to itself the right to determine membership based on its decision on orthodoxy.  Its form of governance is a self-selected oligarchy.”
Well, someone has to define and determine orthodoxy!  Might as well be believing believing, committed, sold-out-to-Jesus Christians as bishops!  And through its stuffing of seminaries with revisionists, barring orthodox candidates for rectors, refusing to send candidates to Trinity or Nashota, trying to declare the elections of orthodox bishops invalid and deposing others in violation of the sacred Canonical procedures, is not TEC truly “a self-selected oligarchy”?

“There is an innate admission here that there may be an uncertainty, if not in scripture itself, our ability to interpret its meaning.”
How honest of you, and how succintly definitive of TEC’s hermenutics!  But it’s not our ability to understand that is the problem.  More like what Mark Twain said, “It’s not the parts of the Bible that I don’t understand that give me a problem.  It’s the parts I do understand and don’t like!”

[37] Posted by Milton on 08-01-2008 at 09:04 AM • top

Matt+, love the title!  Were you thinking of Outback Steakhouse as the model for the Covenant?
“No rules, just right!” wink

[38] Posted by Milton on 08-01-2008 at 09:08 AM • top

This is not the voice of true Shepherds, this sounds like a statement coming from a joint meeting of the Fleece Cutters, Fleece Sellers and Mutton-mongers Unions. 

Or, from an old story: ‘Grandmother, what big eyes, nose, ears, and uh, teeth ... you have.’ said Little Red Riding Hood.

[39] Posted by Floridian on 08-01-2008 at 10:48 AM • top

Milton has it right in #37 above.

All orthodox in TEC, if not the entire AC, have been betrayed. 

Internet parlance:  We’ve been PWNED!

Shame on ALL responsible for this colossal travesty!!

[40] Posted by Athanasius Returns on 08-01-2008 at 11:17 AM • top

... living enough substance to our structures that they exist but not so much that they bind us into a narrow straightjacket.

Yeah, really, that would be like putting God in a very small box.

Does the gaggle of clerical twits in the ACO really think anybody will buy this rubbish?

[41] Posted by Craig Goodrich on 08-01-2008 at 02:08 PM • top

It’s really hard to believe that all the orthodox bishops let it happen AGAIN. It’s the old Charlie Brown and Lucy bit where she holds the football and then yanks it away at the last minute. How many times is it? Five, six, seven?

[42] Posted by Already left on 08-01-2008 at 05:12 PM • top

What is hard to belief is that Gomez is buying this.

[43] Posted by AndrewA on 08-01-2008 at 06:26 PM • top

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