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Bishop Andrus, Are You Listening?

Saturday, August 16, 2008 • 1:16 pm

Stand Firm has shown over the years that in the midst of those wearing collars are druids, witches and muslims. Not once have we seen the leadership stand up and exclaim shock and dismay (except that we would dare bring it to the attention of the world.) The only action we have seen was from Bishop Wolf who inhibited Ann Holmes Redding for a year (which year would have been up in July). Instead we were met with condemnation by those who should have rejoiced at being alerted to wolves among the sheep. If, in fact, as so many TEC bishops whined about proclaimed at Lambeth that it is a victim of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy to paint TEC as non-orthodox, why are they only burning up the presses with inhibitions and depositions of the Reasserters? Why wouldn’t a published statement such as this be evidence enough to remove the collar from Mr. Butcher unless and until he can embrace the faith once delivered.


Two recent posts have highlighted the words of Episcopal priest, John Beverley Butcher.  Reader, Dr. N.  points us to this very enlightening sermon.  (Following the link will alert you to the fact, I use the term sermon very lightly here.)

We Unitarian Universalists do not have a Creed, but we do have Principles and A Living Tradition which draws from many sources including “Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God’s love by loving our neighbors as ourselves.”

So what about this problematic word, “Christian”? I can easily say, “I am a Unitarian-Universalist,” and “I am an Episcopal Priest” because I happen to be Bi-ecclesial. But can I say, “I am a Christian?” That is very, very difficult for me; I have to ask, “What do you mean by the word ‘Christian’?” and get into a discussion first.

  Bi-ecclesial?  I realize TEC has elected the fast track on the road to destruction but when did we enter communion with the Unitarians?  Here is Mr. Butcher’s explanation of how this came about: 

Four and a half years ago when the United States started bombing the people of Iraq and destroying that country, something snapped inside me and I knew there would be significant changes in my life. I joined the Steering Committee of MultiFaith Voices for Peace and Justice. That is where I met the Rev. Kurt Kuhwald. I decided to visit the Unitarian Universalist Church and listen to what my new friend Kurt Kuhwald had to say.

I experienced his preaching to be intellectually stimulating: he selects carefully from many sources, Thich Nhat Hanh, Mary Oliver, and Jesus, for example. He speaks not just from the head but also from the heart. His message addresses what is going on in the world right now. He has a deep spiritual practice that backs up his social action. His delivery is with full body expression: it is clear to me that Kurt totally believes what he is saying. In short, when he preached he had me sitting on the edge of my seat. Six months later I joined this congregation.

Now I am delighted to learn that Kurt is returning to this congregation and will be serving in partnership with the Rev. Amy Morgenstern. In my opinion, I think Amy and Kurt will make a winning combination and a creative balance with each other!

Now I must tell you that when I walked in the door of this church on a Sunday morning for the first time, something happened that really surprised me: an usher handed me a copy of the order of service. When I sat down I noticed that there was going to be a “Lighting of a Chalice.” “What?” I said to myself. “You don’t light a chalice. You drink from it: usually wine or water. this is preposterous!” Then someone lit this extraordinarily beautiful chalice and I understood immediately. Then I got it: Yes, I am the chalice — so go ahead, “Light my fire!”

In view of these statements, some (not many) would be surprised to find Mr. Butcher in the clergy directory of The Episcopal Church for surely the Ecclesiastical Authority (Bishop Andrus) in Mr. Butcher’s life would have issued a pastoral directive and placed him on suspension for a period of discernment to determine if he wished to remain a priest within the Episcopal Church.  Alas, those slumbering members would be sadly disappointed as Clergy Finder brings the listing up immediately.  Even more telling are the words of Mr. Butcher

Those of us outside those systems also have responsibilities. On December 7th, my Bishop, Marc Andrus, invited the clergy of the Diocese of California to join him at Grace Cathedral in San Francisco and walk down to the Federal Building for a Eucharist of Remembrance for all the Dead of the U.S. War on Iraq. Over two hundred responded and joined him.  (emphasis added)

  Stand Firm has shown over the years that in the midst of those wearing collars are druids, witches and muslims.  Not once have we seen the leadership stand up and exclaim shock and dismay (except that we would dare bring it to the attention of the world.)  The only action we have seen was from Bishop Wolf who inhibited Ann Holmes Redding for a year (which year would have been up in July but has been extended to September).  Instead we were met with condemnation by those who should have rejoiced at being alerted to wolves among the sheep.  If, in fact, as so many TEC bishops whined about proclaimed at Lambeth that it is a victim of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy to paint TEC as non-orthodox, why are they only burning up the presses with inhibitions and depositions of the Reasserters?  Why wouldn’t a published statement such as this be evidence enough to remove the collar from Mr. Butcher unless and until he can embrace the faith once delivered.  After all, he can’t even say he is a Christian:

“Am I Christian?” My answer sticks in my mouth, but this I know and say freely: “I am a student of Jesus of Nazareth, Mary of Magdala, and Lao Tzu of China.” My heroes include Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, Desmund Tutu, Thich Nhat Hanh, the Dalai Lama, Wangari Maathai, Cindy Sheehan, Medea Benjamin and Katie Miranda, a young woman from this congregation with great courage working in the West Bank, and all of you who are doing your part!

We know Episcopal Life is listening to this man’s attempt to further erode the Christian faith but is Bishop Andrus?


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Comments:

I’m surprised he hasn’t been elected a bishop somewhere; in due course he would make a terrific PB….

[1] Posted by AnglicanXn on 08-16-2008 at 02:11 PM • top

re: The only action we have seen was from Bishop Wolf who inhibited Ann Holmes Redding for a year (which year would have been up in July).

The inhibition has been extended until September as explained by Bishop Wolf in a letter to the HOB.

[2] Posted by kyounge1956 on 08-16-2008 at 02:33 PM • top

btw, Glenda Melnyck is still a priest - http://www.ecdplus.org/clergy/?clergyID=05418
Progressive Episcopalians of Pittsburgh said in one of their documents (a response to a Q & A that dio Pittsburgh had put out) that the publisher of the pagan liturgy that made so many waves a while back was no longer an Episcopal priest.  This is not true - her husband is no longer a priest, but it was she who published the liturgy.

[3] Posted by j.m.c. on 08-16-2008 at 02:47 PM • top

kyounge, Thank you for the information.  I have updated the post to reflect the extension.

[4] Posted by JackieB on 08-16-2008 at 02:49 PM • top

The Unitarians merged with the Universalists some time in the 19th century. They are the remnants of Enlightenment Rationalism. It seems that this priest has heard his calling, a calling from multiple gods and gurus. (He seems to have left Islam out; perhaps he is studying that now.) To the extent that I understand it, the emerging “theology” of the TEC radicals fits rather well with that of the UUs. One would wonder what a UU service with liturgy would look like; I’m sure that incense would go over very well.

Perhaps there can be another merger, one that would allow these folk to do whatever they want, and allow faithful Christians to refocus on doing God’s will.

Perhaps this priest can take his bishop and those who think like them into this New Thing.

[5] Posted by Ralph on 08-16-2008 at 03:33 PM • top

Why on earth would Marc Andrus want to inhibit a guy whose politics are so very correct?  A little thing like not being Christian isn’t going to stand in the way of this fine fellow’s career in TEC.

Where’s Mad Potter when you really need him, eh?

[6] Posted by Jeffersonian on 08-16-2008 at 03:36 PM • top

Using his own words, he “joined” another religion and is “bi-ecclesial.”  The situation is analogous to that of Rev. Ann Holmes Redding.

[7] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 08-16-2008 at 04:44 PM • top

The simple answer is NO he is not listening.
Who is the man with the funny hat and the teapot?

[8] Posted by Sheep75002 on 08-16-2008 at 05:09 PM • top

Yes, Raevynfyre (Rev Glyn Ruppe-Melnyk) is still the rector of St Francis in Malvern Pa.  She lives at “RavenOak” with her husband Oakwyse (William Melnyk).  The Druid Network has the following listing:

OakWyse is a Druid Priest who also has 25 years experience as a clergyman in the Episcopal (Anglican) Church, USA. He has experience in designing and conducting Druid, Wiccan and Christian rites of passage, and eclectic rituals. He lives in Southeastern Pennsylvania, near Philadelphia. He is able to perform legal weddings/handfastings in the U.S. and currently has a flexible schedule. He is able to travel, if required. He is a member of The Druid Network, Order of the Yew, and a Druid member of OBOD.

Look here for her reflections on the Christian/Druid “ritual” that she led at Stonehenge along with her husband.  She’s currently on sabbatical traveling to her husband’s book signings…  Not sure how it happened that Bill got pushed out of TEC and she escaped his fate.

[9] Posted by Nevin on 08-16-2008 at 05:25 PM • top

It seems to me that the only reason the TEC does not merge with the unitarians is that it would not promote their agenda of legitimizing homosexual behavior.

[10] Posted by John A. on 08-16-2008 at 06:03 PM • top

The Unitarians are quite ahead of TEC on legitimizing all sorts of behavior.

[11] Posted by AndrewA on 08-16-2008 at 06:15 PM • top

I can easily say, “I am a Unitarian-Universalist,” and “I am an Episcopal Priest” because I happen to be Bi-ecclesial.

I think that’s sort of the spiritual equivalent of bisexual…

[12] Posted by st. anonymous on 08-16-2008 at 06:40 PM • top

I would say the reason TEC is not actively seeking communion with the Unitarians is twofold.  First, there would be too much risk of awakening those who are still sleeping in the pews.  I can’t see them sneaking that past the older membership.  Second, the Unitarians do not have the prestige (or money) that TEC has and the Unitarians have been doing this for years to which believers have only shrugged their shoulders and said Well it is the Unitarians, you know.  No, they snagged the richest, sleepest mainline denomination and don’t plan to let go until they have completed the conversion to a country club that supports the MDG’s.

[13] Posted by JackieB on 08-16-2008 at 06:50 PM • top

You can’t have communion with Unitarians-they don’t have communion. 
-an ex Unitarian-
Susan Peterson

[14] Posted by eulogos on 08-16-2008 at 07:08 PM • top

Susan -

smile

[15] Posted by JackieB on 08-16-2008 at 07:10 PM • top

I am a successor of the Rev. John Beverly Butcher as rector at St. Paul’s Church, Winslow AZ, and having hosted him on a tour around Winslow, a decade later, I’ve kept up with the his career in TEC.

The Rev. Butcher has several times in his ecclesial career acted in ways that +California could have inhibited him at the very least and probably deposed him.

As the Associate Rector in Menlo Park in the 70’s, he was forced to resign by the Rector when it was discovered that for over a year he was going home to his family at the end of the day and, after putting the kids to bed, John left the house to spend the night with his mistress. Within a year ? I received an invitation to their housewarming while they were yet still unmarried.

For many years John Beverly served as the rector of a parish in San Francisco where the faith he taught was not even liberal Christianity, but the Tao.

As a two decade reader of the Wittenburg Door http://www.wttenburgdoor.com, in Issue #154 July/August 1997, I was shocked to read the Interview and find the Rev. Butcher talking about his many years of teaching the Tao, not Christianity, in his parish. See: INTERVIEW: Rev. John Beverly Butcher – How now the Tao of Jesus? by Becky Garrison. http://archives.wittenburgdoor.com/doorstore/backissues/95-98.html#154. John Beverly spent most of his career leading people away from Trinitarian faith and Trinitarian focused Anglican worship.

Nothing will happen to him from +California.

[16] Posted by Bob Maxwell+ on 08-16-2008 at 07:44 PM • top

“when the United States started bombing the people of Iraq and destroying that country… I decided to visit the Unitarian Universalist Church”

Of course, It’s Bush’s fault!

[17] Posted by texex on 08-16-2008 at 08:23 PM • top

“Tash is only another name for Aslan.  All that old idea of us being right and the Calormenes wrong is silly.  We know better now.  The Calormenes use different words but we all mean the same thing.  Tash and Aslan are only two different names for you know Who.  That’s why there can never be any quarrel between them.  Get that into your heads, you stupid brutes.  Tash is Aslan: Aslan is Tash.”  C.S. Lewis, The Last Battle

[18] Posted by Ann Castro on 08-16-2008 at 08:43 PM • top

Very illuminating, #16.  The rot goes very deep, from all appearances.

[19] Posted by Jeffersonian on 08-16-2008 at 09:36 PM • top

At least he admits he is not a Christian in the historic and accepted meaning of the word.  If some of the rest would be that honest…

[20] Posted by Going Home on 08-16-2008 at 11:39 PM • top

A simple point of information here. In the Church of England under the Clergy Discipline Measure anyone could make a complaint to the bishop about the behaviour of one of his clergy (although I am uncertain what to do about doctrinal issues. A quick scan of the legislation didn’t clarify this…)

Is there a similar process in the Episcopal Church in America? If so, why not use it? Even if his bishop finds him innocent on all counts, that would be a very revealing position…

[21] Posted by Marcus on 08-17-2008 at 02:13 AM • top

Soon ministers with mistresses will be open about it and praised for their “honesty”.  We will be told there are many such in the Communion, but only a few rave souls have the integrity to flaunt it.  The fact that modern society is more lax about adultery will become the Church’s new “context”.  Biologists will explain that our brains are naturally wired for promiscuity, and theologians will cite this as “proof” that God created us to sleep around.  The scriptural passages on adultery will be re-interpreted in light of God’s continuously evolving self-revelation.

[22] Posted by st. anonymous on 08-17-2008 at 06:06 AM • top

“We” are an inclusive Church. Open to all, including the “bi-ecclesial.” They are welcome to worship, to learn, and to be healed, but they should be prohibited from preaching, teaching, and ministering.

Sign me up for the VRWC.

[23] Posted by Undergroundpewster on 08-17-2008 at 06:41 AM • top

In England, we have a curious institution called the Church of England. Its strength has always lain in the fact that on any moral or political issue it can produce such a wide divergence of opinion that nobody – from the Pope to Mao Tse-tung – can say with any confidence that he is not an Anglican. Its weaknesses are that nobody pays much attention to it, and very few people attend its functions.”

Auberon Waugh

[24] Posted by Jeffersonian on 08-17-2008 at 10:37 AM • top

Bron Waugh who I knew had a wonderful turn of phrase, whether or not it was strictly accurate.

[25] Posted by Pageantmaster [Free Archbishop Cranmer] on 08-17-2008 at 11:27 AM • top

It’s a pity so many people have gone to the great amount of trouble it takes to become priests—much less bishops or presiding bishops—when it is evident they would be much happier leading guided meditations at the end of yoga classes.

I have some experience with same, having practiced the stretching exercises several years to loosen up an uncooperative lower back.

In guided meditation, the student lies on his or her back, hands at the side and legs parted, eyes closed. It’s called the Corpse Pose, and the aim is to do absolutely nothing.

Which comes to think of it, sounds a bit like Lambeth…

[26] Posted by Romkey on 08-17-2008 at 12:16 PM • top

The term “corpse pose” is unfortunate. Let me be clear that I am not into syncretism, but the spiritual objective of yoga is mystical union with God. The various postures apparently have esoteric meanings for Hindus.

Mysticism is not for everyone. It can be difficult, and it is treacherous. But, there is a clear-cut Judeo-Christian mystical tradition that doesn’t rely on the mystical traditions of other religions. Christians just don’t talk very much about it, compared (say) to Hindus or New Age folk.

Mystical prayer begins with finding a good Christian spiritual director who can help you decide whether you are being called to this path, and who can help you learn the ancient prayer techniques, as well as deal with what happens to you as a result of using them.

Mystical prayer uses total body relaxation. While the yoga postures are apparently relaxing to easterners, they are painful to many westerners. One can simply sit in a comfortable chair, or lie in bed. The next step is to learn how to clear the mind so that one can hear the still, small voice of God. Indeed, the goal is to learn how to think about absolutely nothing.

[27] Posted by Ralph on 08-17-2008 at 02:00 PM • top

I can see the future coming down the track toward me! First, TEC will leave the Anglican communion.  Then TEC will split into conservative and liberal factions.  The conservatives will leave the TEC communion and create a new denomination out of a TEC-UUC merger.  The liberals will turn to the Dali Lama for guidance, and the conservative, former TECies will sue them for ownership of their properties.  Who says history doesn’t repeat itself? 
For a glimpse of a liturgical UUC church, go to King’s Chapel, Boston.  A former (200 years ago) Anglican parish.
Dumb Sheep.

[28] Posted by dumb sheep on 08-17-2008 at 03:50 PM • top

Mr. Butcher and Ms. Melnyck wander freely about TEC teaching their various heresies while faithful bishops like Cox and Schofield are deposed.  There is something wrong with this picture.  When will the PB and the HoB wake up and smell the coffee?

[29] Posted by terrafirma on 08-17-2008 at 07:38 PM • top

When God sends lightning bolts to zap them into reality.

[30] Posted by Cennydd on 08-17-2008 at 09:31 PM • top

terrafirma asks:

When will the PB and the HoB wake up and smell the coffee?

but doesn’t realize, they’re the barristas...

[31] Posted by heart on 08-18-2008 at 03:47 AM • top

Talk about an emission.

[32] Posted by gkissel on 08-18-2008 at 01:28 PM • top

Well, with Obama being a Unitarian…it’s just sooooooo trendy to want to be a part of that club.  The leadership of TEO probably is working toward a merger to keep those parochial reports inflated.

[33] Posted by midwestnorwegian on 08-19-2008 at 07:56 AM • top

re: “Obama being a Unitarian”

Isn’t he UCC, not Unitarian?

[34] Posted by kyounge1956 on 08-19-2008 at 08:37 AM • top

Bob Maxwell+ (#16),
What work you were given to follow that footprint! I am thankful to our Lord for giving your parish some relief and refreshment.
Perhaps it can happen to the parish that is currently under this lost priest, Butcher.

Of course the longer shot is that episcopalians will be rescued from these other butchers of the faith, +andrus, +schori, etc.

[35] Posted by southernvirginia1 on 08-19-2008 at 10:18 AM • top

Kyounge - same difference.

[36] Posted by midwestnorwegian on 08-19-2008 at 10:38 AM • top

Sorry, but none of these people are Druids. They are neo-Druids. Very little is known about the original Druids as they were part of ancient Celtic society, and were eliminated by the end of the Second Century of the Common Era (better known to us as the Anno Domini). The interesting thing about Celtic society is that they had no written language. What you see written in the roman alphabet (but with some diacritical marks) was done using a system developed by Christian missionaries, so it was after Constantine’s adoption of Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire. Therefore, the only documentary evidence we have is what was written down more than a century after the elimination of the Druids were eliminated, and its source is predominantly from whatever oral tradition was handed down in the intervening period (more than a century later).

In other words, if you want to be a Druid you can start with the little that is known and make up the rest to suit your own desires.

Seems like a perfect ecumenical match TEC + Druidism!

Blessings and regards,
Martial Artist

[37] Posted by H. Potter (aka Martial Artist) on 08-19-2008 at 10:55 AM • top

re: “same difference”
No, the Unitarians and the UCC are not the same thing. Or did you merely mean, one is as bad as the other?

[38] Posted by kyounge1956 on 08-19-2008 at 07:27 PM • top

Why do bi-ecclesials exist?

Following the current line, I must think druids (neo-druids) are like goths (neo-goths). I asked myself: Do we have a Bi-ecclesial Goth-TECer out there? I see there is a Goth Eucharist.

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/world/2007/06/08/finighan.rock.and.roll.religion.cnn&wm=10

I bring this to the attention of the thread because of the money line: “I still haven’t found what I am looking for.”

It doesn’t help to have a moving target.

[39] Posted by Dr. N. on 08-20-2008 at 08:09 AM • top

[39] Dr. N.,

I am not sure where the “money line” quoted in your referenced comment comes from, but presume it is coming from Mr. Melnyk. Something tells me that he (and, if stated by someone else, that person also) is the sort of person who (to rephrase it from the language we used in the U.S. Navy into a more polite form)

would be unable to locate his own gluteals despite being in possession of detailed and precise written instructions and being allowed the use of both of his hands.

But that is simply my surmise. grin

Blessings and regards,
Martial Artist

[40] Posted by H. Potter (aka Martial Artist) on 08-20-2008 at 09:13 AM • top

I expect that John Beverly Butcher is retired from stipendiary parish ministry as he is older than my 66 years. I’m also sure he hopes the increased publicity will enhance his speaking value in the San Francisco Bay area among certain markets, and this is often a source of income for “retired” clergy. Maybe they’ll fly him down to Disney Land.

[41] Posted by Bob Maxwell+ on 08-20-2008 at 01:32 PM • top

#40 The quote is from the linked CNN video showing clips from Goth and U2 Eucharists.

What interests me is that “new things” can be advanced with effort to hide Christian centering, often just to get people in the door. When the message is mixed up, changing, or hidden, both leadership and participants fail.

Just wondering how folks here respond to a Goth Eucharist, if the elements and messages of the orthodox Anglican Eucharist are followed.

[42] Posted by Dr. N. on 08-20-2008 at 02:09 PM • top

“I experienced his preaching to be intellectually stimulating: he selects carefully from many sources, Thich Nhat Hanh, Mary Oliver, and Jesus, for example. He speaks not just from the head but also from the heart. His message addresses what is going on in the world right now. He has a deep spiritual practice that backs up his social action. His delivery is with full body expression: it is clear to me that Kurt totally believes what he is saying. In short, when he preached he had me sitting on the edge of my seat. Six months later I joined this congregation.”

I understand Bishop Paul Moore was just like that and then his daughter told us the real story. Truth to Power wins out in the end.

[43] Posted by ctowles on 08-20-2008 at 02:23 PM • top

After bi-ecclesials, we’ll next see tri-ecclesials.

Slippery slope, you know.

[44] Posted by Siangombe on 08-26-2008 at 04:01 AM • top

So he’s bi, huh?  I guess that makes him an ecclesial pervert.

[45] Posted by gppp on 08-27-2008 at 04:48 AM • top

Now that you have torn Mr. Butcher to small pieces by your laughter and indiscriminate criticism, you are now
ready to devour his bones.

[46] Posted by St. James on 09-16-2008 at 12:08 PM • top

incroyable ...

[47] Posted by Armando on 10-01-2008 at 07:21 AM • top

Bi-ecclesial? Anglo + Catholic, maybe, or Pentecostal Holiness for that matter, but this chap is clearly bi-deistic, if that were possible…  Nope, Jesus says “No dice.” Easier to grow two heads.  Or actually, “Nobody can serve two masters, ..love one and hate the other.”  Hate the other?? 
Now this lighting of the chalice bit:  There’s one other symbol of our Faith that some fellows used to get a kick out of setting afire, but then they were a bunch of radicals, not like these sweet-natured clergypersons, huh?

Lemme loose in that church- I’ll preach ‘em a sermon they’ll take home with ‘em!

[48] Posted by Robert Easter on 10-08-2008 at 07:33 PM • top

Robert- If you read the HoBD listserve, they are all ready to toss the Creeds on this guy’s recommendation and make him a saint.  Assuming this is the same “Mr. Butcher” who seems to have the letter to the editor page of Episcopal Life to himself.

[49] Posted by tjmcmahon on 10-08-2008 at 08:08 PM • top

Armando said it.  Incroyable!

Also interesting, this “St. James,” who chimes in to condemn everybody in the conversation, which he/she obviously mis-judges, pretending that nobody can discuss ideas, doctrine, or behavior except as a cover for picking on somebody, while he/she is far too loving not to despise anyone who dares think propositionally.  Not to condemn the person out-of-hand, but doesn’t that kind of hypocrisy need to be seen for what it is?  SJ, please take the time to ask God, Himself, to show you what His Truth, regardless of what you or I may expect, really is.  He’s already given you access to a record of His witness to mankind in the Bible, and He’s a more than capable Teacher!

[50] Posted by Robert Easter on 10-08-2008 at 08:46 PM • top

Not sure I’d call Butcher ‘bi-ecclesial’ since he’s spread pretty thin between multiple ‘teachers’ and ‘disciplines.’

Butcher gushes: “Am I Christian?” My answer sticks in my mouth, but this I know and say freely: “I am a student of Jesus of Nazareth, Mary of Magdala, and Lao Tzu of China.” My heroes include Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, Desmund Tutu, Thich Nhat Hanh, the Dalai Lama, Wangari Maathai, Cindy Sheehan, Medea Benjamin and Katie Miranda, a young woman from this congregation with great courage working in the West Bank, and all of you who are doing your part!”

Second reason, there is only one Church so ‘bi-ecclesial’ would seem an actual impossibility.  I’m not talking RC or Orthodox being The One True Church, but the heavenly Jerusalem, the church of the saints of all ages.

If one was both Episcopal and Catholic (I know one woman who claims to be both and attends both), or Methodist and Presbyterian, then one could be bi-ecumenical…I guess.

[51] Posted by Theodora on 03-16-2009 at 02:53 PM • top

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