KJS Interviewed by NPR…The Episcopal Church’s Christology is fully orthodox

Dhimmi heard a fair portion of that interview.  But he didn’t hear anything about Humpty Dumptyism.  So he is not sure whether (i) the reasonable words he heard actually mean what they seem to say or (ii) are subject to reinterpretation without recourse.

Ms. Gross, perhaps the most overrated interviewer in NPRland, sets the stage for the rest of the interview by informing her audience that the struggle in the institution formerly known as ECUSA is all about the consecration of a gay bishop. What is remarkable is how easily Mrs. Schori accepts that explanation while insisting that she and her colleagues are really orthodox. Ms. Gross, ever anxious to please her guest and pursue her own agenda, lobs one big marshmellow after another at Mrs. Schori. Never once does she challenge the PB’s protestations of oehodoxy with Schori’s own words and the words and actions of the HOB and General Convention. I stopped listening to Fresh Aire years ago when I realized that Ms. Gross was one of most sycophantic and sad to say, intellectually dishonest interviewers in the media. She obviously does little to prepare herself in depth for her guests - unless they’re folks who share Terri’s views. Ms. Gross must have served on Mrs. Schori’s canonical exam committee.

If Bp. Jefferts Schori’s Christology is fully orthodox, then my name really, truly, and actually is Athanasius Returns.

by their ignorance of the fact that the Episcopal Church is completely orthodox

Her lies grow bolder.

Guess it depends upon what your definition of is . . er, I mean, orthodox is! 

There is a really great statement by Andrew Carey about the “deposition” and the silence of many of the evangelical bishops of England.

They have a blog after the article.  You can leave a comment here

She goes on to say that TEC believes that Christ is “fully human and fully divine” and that suggestions that TEC’s Christology is insufficient are untrue (heh).

Quick- somebody ship her up here to N. Michigan.  Maybe she can straighten out this bunch of pantheistic universalists before she regains her memory and remembers that she is one of the inspirations for the “affirmations” of the Dio. of N. Michigan.

I have news for you Madame.  You nor any of the liberal clergy in your church are orthodox.  You aren’t fooling the Christians. Nor are you fooling America.  You are not Christian.  You and TECWW are pagan, period.  So do not come up here saying such tripe. You are sinning against
The Holy Ghost and there is no forgiveness for you or your followers. This is plainly stated in St. Mark 3: 28-29. “Verily, verily I say unto you, people will be forgiven for their sins against The Father and The Son.  But whosoever sins against The Holy Ghost can never have forgiveness, for they are guilty of an eternal sin.”  So therefore God has already laid out His judgment for you and your followers right there in His Living Scriptures.

That would be “New Thang Gozpel Orthodox”, Bob, for 2 cents.

I turned it off 22 minutes into the “interview”. It began to remind me of Radio Hanoi (as I recall from an earlier point in my life).

The Christology of TEC IS orthodox.  It is the Christology of KJS and about 70 sitting diocesans and 2/3 of the clergy that is not orthodox.  Nothing wrong with the ‘28 BCP, and really not that many gross violations even in the ‘79 if you don’t count the catechism and some of the variant eucharists.

I don’t have time to listen to it just now, but I did skim the article and read this

Reason implies, as one old hymn puts it, that “new occasions teach new duties.” We believe that revelation continues, that God continues to be active in creation, and that all of the many ways of knowing — including geology, evolutionary biology, philosophy, and arts such as opera, punk rock or painting — can be vehicles through which God and human beings partner in continuing creation.

And all these years I thought reason was the best use of our intellect to discern most fully the meaning of scripture. Sigh…this is not Anglican.

Her lies grow bolder.

  Is her nose getter longer?

I hope NPR spends 40 minutes with ++Henry Luke Orombi next time he is in the neighborhood.

go ahead and listen for yourself.

I’m sorry to say this, but…. why bother?  Is there really anything new the Presiding Bishop is saying?

I have better things to do with my life than listen, yet again, to Katherine Jefferts-Schori tell me that my values, and my belief in God, is the problem.

My Lord and Savior:  Jesus Christ.  My vehicle to the divine:  427 Shelby Cobra.  In blue.

You’re not alone, cliffg!

Someone should post the heresy list on that blog.

Someone should post the heresy list on that blog.

What heresy list?  On what blog?

He asks quizzically….

Pilgrim (#7), thanks for the suggestion. I have availed myself of it! CliffG, just go to the bottom of the referenced link to find the comment section.

My brother heard this this afternoon - his first “encounter” with the pb. (He is not Episcopalian, lucky him.) He was not at all impressed with her delivery or how she sounded. But he was glad to hear that she is “orthodox” (wink, wink).

ClifG,
The Document the Heresies List is here at Stand Firm:
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/13902

Both CANA and Andrew Carey have published their support for Bishop Duncan.

“Tradition means the fruits of millennia living in community — our ways of worship and our ways of interpreting scripture, which include the analogical and metaphorical.”

What?  Silly me.  I thought Tradition was the faith and practice of the Church.

Let me call attention here to the important distinction that Dr. Philip Turner has made between the official theology of TEC and its “working theology.”  The official theology (or specifically its Christology in this case) is that formally taught in the Apostles’ and Nicene Creeds and implicitly taught or confessed in the liturgy contained in the BCP, and yes, it’s true that this formal kind of theology/Christology is perfectly orthodox, preserving the historic words that express amd enshrine the apostolic faith.

But alas, the gap between that official theology and the real or working theology of most leaders of TEC (i.e., in practice) is a gap so vast and deep that it rivals the Grand Canyon in size and depth.  In the Alice in Wonderland world of the PB and her liberal ilk, words mean whatever she whimsically says they mean, with no necessary connection whatsoever to their actual, accepted meaning.

So how can you tell when the Presiding Bishop is being deceitful and misleading?  It’s really not hard to tell, you know.  Just check to see if her lips are moving and sounds are coming out of her mouth.

David Handy+

If TEC’s current Christology is completely orthodox, then I am a large white rabbit.

I am perplexed by several things.  Two in particular.
1.) This was an amazingly bad piece of journalism by Terri Gross—poorly organized, pontificating instead of asking questions, revealing complete ignorance about your subject (such as—so the conservatives object to Jesus being human?)
2.) The PB stated her complete support for the orthodox doctrine of Christ.  Either she believes it but thinks it’s irrelevant to the mission of the Church, or else she’s equivocating (well, we’re all sons & daughters of God, just like Jesus).  [25] has it right that the church always changes the official teaching *last*.

Right off the bat we learn that the “repentance” service was timed to coincide with the Pittsburgh vote.  The thing is, the “repentance” thingy was buried because the Pittsburgh vote was for real and the “repentance” thingy was a publicity stunt.  The media weren’t fooled.  Sad, but true.

bb

I personally fired this lady as my spiritual advisor some time ago.  She is unquestionably a false teacher. Believe it or not, I actually got a response from 815 when I told them I was removing ECUSA from my trust. The ECUSA is in free fall. We can debate whether this is a good thing.

Terri Gross is so clueless about religion she doesn’t know when she’s being snowballed.  I’ve heard some excellent interviews she’s done (for example with some jazz musicians) but whoever at NPR let this air should be fired.  So much nonsense and fluff.

#15 tjmcmahon, I’m not sure if it’s the next time he will be in the States, but ++Henry Luke Orombi will be leading the Anglican Men’s Weekend May 15-17, 2009 in the mountains of southern California. Maybe NPR could come up to interview him. See last years videos at http://www.anglicanmensweekend.org

If PECUSA was orthodox in it’s theology, Katherine’s mother wouldn’t have left it to become *Orthodox*.  She doesn’t get it, does she?  Not then, not now.

Having listened to half of this interview, thus far, I am unimpressed by the PB.

1) Bishop Duncan did not say that Jesus referenced homosexuality in his teachings, but, that the prohibition was the will of God.  Bishop Duncan’s comment referred to the OT moral law, in the Pentateuch, which is reaffirmed in the NT. Judaic and Christian teaching for 2000 years or more has upheld this position based on the clear teaching of scripture.  The RC church, which constitutes half of the 2 billion Christians worldwide, calls homosexuality as “disordered” lifestyle. The evangelical churches, which constitute over 70% of Protestants reject it. Only the mainline Protestant churches advocate “LGBT rights” and they are declining rapidly.

2) The PB has not “bent over backwards” to reconcile with the dissident bishops.  The TEC rejected the recommendations of the Windsor Report although some individual dioceses have accepted it. KJS did not accept its recommendations, and is lobbying for gay rights in the church as we can see in this interview. No attempts have been made to reconcile or compromise with the conservative wing of the church, or these bishops, but, rather, a clear message of moving ahead with TEC’s political agenda has been stated and restated, which includes forcing women priests on the Anglo Catholic dioceses, such as San Joachin, Fort Worth and Quincy.

3) If a diocese is a “creation of General Convention” KJS is free to reconstitute the Diocese of Pittsburgh with what’s left, but the individual members and parishes also have the right to leave, to continue their relationship with each other, and to call themselves what they wish, e.g., the “Anglican Diocese of Pittsburgh” which is what they will do.  They will exercise their freedom of religious choose, despite what KJS thinks or wishes.

Katharine Jefferts Shori is failing in her role as PB, and needs to adopt a different strategy, than the cold, methodical procedural approach she is currently using. Other dioceses will follow, given the political agenda of TEC, and the litigation costs will become prohibitive.

Tradition means the fruits of millennia living in community — our ways of worship and our ways of interpreting scripture, which include the analogical and metaphorical

The devil is in the details.  While we believe in the finitude of creation and history: the goodness at the beginning of the creation, the Fall and the evil, the atonement death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and the eschatological consumation when the second coming of Christ, she sees these languages metaphorical, not ontological, i.e., they do not mean what you think, but rather mean what she thinks.  According to their historicism, Christ event is a singular event, a “used by” event that may have metaphorical and subjective meaning to modern times but there is no more than that.

#34 aka “My strength”  I am often surprised when I hear one person tell another what they think or believe in the politcal realm or religious.  In many cases, such “artculation” is inaccurate or misleading at best, at worst sets up a straw man that can then be beaten down and its alleged proponent proven to be wanting in intelligence, integrity, or faith.

The perfect combination of interviewer, subject, and target audience.

I do like the old radio shows, though…

She believes what she believes.  They are not lies to her.  In the Diocese of SC, at the end of the day she wondered why they (The Diocese of SC) and she could not communicate.  This is no longer an act of denial but embracing deception, self-deception.

Very sad, but this is the reality of TEC today.

Dear Heavenly Father, Holy Father,  I lift up Katharine Jefforts-Shori before you.  As You accosted and confronted another who was going against Your purposes, I pray you will blind her eyes to all else but the shining image of Your Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ.  Let all her zeal and agendas fade in the brightness of Your glory and Truth, Your holy redemptive power and purposes. 
Have mercy on Your Church.  Help all who claim Your authority and use Your Name to repent and renounce all evil.  Help Your Church to return to her first-love and to whole-hearted worship of You alone. 
In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen

One thing that Herself certainly did NOT address was whether Jesus was uniquely salvific.  That was left wide open.

Gross was a brilliant tactical choice of interviewer, because she is so ignorant of Christianity that it wouldn’t matter whether she were biased or not; she couldn’t challenge non-sense because she can’t recognize it.  She might as well have been interviewing Brian Greene on string theory.

I’m going to quit bitching and say a Rosary for you guys.  certainly more constructive than anything I’ve ever posted.

Thanks, Ed/

The Episcopal Church’s Christology is fully orthodox

Well… sure… as long as words suddenly mean whatever you say they mean.

Yup, those depositions were canonical and the moon is made out of blue cheese.

#35, EmilyH, what you say is a perfectly legitimate observation of human relationships.  However, in this case, we have a multitude of public experience of exactly what KJS’s words cash out to.  We don’t have to imagine what she might mean.  She has been very clear in word and action ... even if what she says and does is intellectually and spiritually bankrupt besides being inept.  If you are enamoured of her, why are you hanging out with a group of people who are not?

Oh dear, the Beach Party has a different take

I had some of my liberal counterparts( in my former episcopal parish ) say ” well I’m orthodox too” all the while believing the gay agenda should be fullfilled. Funny ain’t the word for this paticular person.

It’s the same ole thing: giving whatever definition the pb (and the other revisionistas) make up to words that have clear meaning which is quite different from those now assigned.  As many have said before, this is how they can recite the creeds.  If Terri Gross had just asked one question, some truth may have had a chance to peek through the interview:  “KJS, what do you mean by “orthodox?”

NPR lost any hope of objectivity long long ago.  It is now pretty much a leftist cheerleading squad.

#29 little searchers, you wrote:

Believe it or not, I actually got a response from 815 when I told them I was removing ECUSA from my trust.

Well, of course, you did!  815 was being entirely scriptural, too, even following the words of Jesus:

“Where your treasure is, there will your heart be.”
“You cannot serve both God and mammon.”

It is obvious who TEC serves and where its stone heart is, no?

Your Most Holy Oceanographer of Obfuscation: KJS.

More “squid theology” from the “squid leader”... very, very slippery, darts to the right quickly- NEVER to the left.  Known to have long reaching tentacles to grab hold of their prey… and known to thrive in the deepest and darkest areas…
And if all else fails- you will be shot with the darkest of squid ink (which the pb uses in the form of lawsuits) to try and steal property from the very laity that planned for, built and paid for these properties without a single dime from 815.  “Squid Theology” knows no boundaries- and has no clue what being “equitable” means.

I think she’s desperately wrong about the continuation of creation.  Creation does not continue and we do not participate in it.  Creation was the work of the logos in the beginning.  The incarnation addressed the distortion of that creation—of the image of God in the human person and of the physical creation—by sending the agent of creation to redeem it.  There may be recreation but that is about returning to an original state, in which the image of God shines in every man and woman and nature functions as it ought, without moral, spiritual, or physical decay or death.

The work of Christ is a work of restoration, of recapitulation, or return to what human beings and the world were meant to be.  It’s not about doing a new thing.  And in that regard, her understanding of the incarnation, and by extension Christ, is bankrupt.  Whether or not she’s willing to admit Christ was both human and divine.

Stop all the criticisms of the BP Schori.  DEPOSE HER AND DO IT NOW!!!  ABC wake up you Marist.  Do something Biblically correct for a change.

adamsmith, for the HOB to depose her, a large number would have to judge themselves complicit in her violations and depose themselves.

Tell me she understood oceanography more accurately?  She’s out of her depth here….and the bubbles keep rising around her.

Too late to response.  I’ll leave it.  Thanks to monologistos and AnnieV anyway.

AndrewA, I realize were the HOB to begin the process they would have have to depose themselves.  So what!!  Begin the process and let the members show who are the hypocrites.  Yes, we already know who they are, but we could cause some further embarrassment. The alternative is that more good bishops will likely be deposed.  Isn’t it time to fight back?