Largest Parish in Diocese Of Western New York Leaves Episcopal Church

No fear ... the worst is over ....just got it today from our enlightened PB.

In the church there seems to be a direct correlation between large and conservative, small and liberal…

“But Garrison said he would not try to block the move.”

And precisely how could he block the move?  They must be disappointed that there is nothing to sue since everything is being left behind.

” ‘I think we are moving forward and focusing on mission, on involvement in the millennium development goals, on being an inclusive part of the body of Christ,” [Garrison] said.”

That’s worth three beers in the HOB Buzzphrase Drinking Game.

Block the Move?? They are GONE!!Your worry should be how to pay the bills for the empty building. Three cheers for St. Barts and a big soggy bag of——for heretic Garrison.
Intercessor

I think there is a glut of church buildings on the market as thriving ones upgrade and declining ones close.
My Aunt goes to the former St Johns in New Braunsfel’s Texas 90% of the congregation departed and they now hold services in a former Lutheran Church now owned by Baptists. Interesting to see what will become of the existing St Johns property - can 10% of a midsize parish survive?

Is there a list somewhere on the Internet of parishes that have either left TEC entirely (like Plano), or where a large majority left like St. Bart’s in Buffalo?  I wonder what the current tally is.

The defections amounted to only a small percentage of Episcopal parishes nationwide, said Garrison, who is optimistic that the Episcopal Church is going in the right direction, despite all of the recent turmoil.
“I think we are moving forward and focusing on mission, on involvement in the millennium development goals, on being an inclusive part of the body of Christ,” he said.

The Episcopal mantra!

I was in the process of writing something snide about TEC, but perhaps that should be set aside in favor of…

Prayers for the good priest and people of St. Bartholomew’s.  May the Lord continue to guide you through this time of transition.

TJ

Let’s see,
The majority of parishes in DSJ, Pittsburg, and soon to be Ft. Worth and Qunicy.

I wonder when (or if) we will see the 2007 ASA numbers and the 2008 ASA and 2009 ASA and if they will reflect the realilty of what has occurred with the “handful” of parishes leaving.

YBIC,
Phil Snyder

“The gay issue is the straw that broke the camel’s back,”

I’m sorry but reasserters need to be very clear and very careful how they explain their actions.  Father may have provided the writer with a well reasoned response that got edited down to this quote.  As we have tried to say over and over: Scripture and Salvation are greater reasons that Robinson.  He is only a symptom of the disease who revisionists have turned into the poster boy.

So where is the money going to come from to keep the doors of St. Bartholomew’s open and the bills paid? Is 815 going to prop this church up like they are the psuedo diocese of San Joaquin? Is 815 going to prop up all these churches that leave and the leftover minority in dioceses that leave? Cannot these people see that the New Thing Theology is not of God and He is not blessing it? Well, sin does blind, doesn’t it?

It would be very interesting to see just how many people remain at St Bartholomew’s once the faithful Anglicans have left.  If the majority who left is 80%, then I just don’t see how the remaining congregation is going to be financially viable without a huge monthly infusion of cash from 815, because the diocese sure doesn’t have it, the last I heard!

The St. Bart’s congregation was beginning to outgrow its 13,000-square-foot facility, which was built in 1960, he said. At 37,000 square feet, the Temple Beth El site is nearly three times the size.

With average weekend attendance of more than 500 people, St. Bart’s ranks as the largest Episcopal congregation in upstate New York.

If all of those people leave, it could be a huge blow to the diocese. The parish accounts for about 10 percent of average weekend attendance throughout the entire diocese, which includes 63 congregations in Cattaraugus, Chautauqua, Erie, Genesee, Niagara, Orleans and Wyoming counties.

Garrison acknowledged that the loss would have a great impact, but he also said that the congregation had largely separated itself from the diocese back in 2003, when it began withholding “fair share” pledges in support of diocesan operations.

Feels good to read that.

I think this is the tip of the iceberg in upstate New York.  I am originally from Oneida County (Diocese of Central New York, and am now in the Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin)....having grown up there and attended Grace Church in Utica until I left for the service.  I can tell you that not all of the parishes and missions in the area and in the neighboring Diocese of Albany are “progressive.”  Once you get out into the hinterlands….especially in the northern parts….you’ll find a different story.  And this is true from one end of the state to the other.  Grace Church went gone completely off the deep end following Bishop Ned Cole’s retirement, and it’s no longer the Church that my wife and I knew….unfortunately.  There is an undercurrent of discontent throughout the entire area.

A year ago I posted some research at T19 which showed the trend towards the largest parishes in TEC leaving.

http://www.kendallharmon.net/t19/index.php/t19/article/6292

I think we could compile quite a list of dioceses where the largest parish has already left, or has clearly taken a stand against the current theology and practice of 815.  It’s interesting to me that in spite of all my research and blog reading, I’d never heard about this parish in W. New York, or known that there were any parishes there likely to leave.

On one level, I find this news encouraging.  There are other orthodox folks out there whom we may not have heard from much, but who are taking a stand, and who are making clear their opposition to the false teaching of TEC.  My prayers are with them.

oops, I meant to post the link to the comments on Kendall’s post, not the post itself:
http://www.kendallharmon.net/t19/index.php/t19/article/6292/#115378

Thank heavens “the worst” is over, I just hope we can survive “the better.”

#2 Caleb, there seems to be a direct correlation between Conservative and growing.

It’s marvelous how God provides for his people.  The growing congregation needed to relocate anyway to a larger facility, and lo and behold, this nearby synagogue building that’s three times larger becomes available at the right time. 

Yes, it’s sad that St. Bart’s couldn’t sell their current building to buy the new one, but this really does give them a fresh start, with a new Anglian identity and a new building and a whole new future.  God bless them.

With an ASA of around 500, this church instantly becomes one of the largest in the whole Province of the Southern Cone.

David Handy+

“St. Bart’s will join hundreds of parishes around the country that have abandoned the Episcopal Church…”

Waitaminnit…This article has to be wrong.  The PB says it’s only a handful of parishes that are leaving.

#21 - the PB must have some big freaking hands!! 

A godly priest in DioWNY tells me that there is a group of Christian clergy who regularly meet together and support each other. Perhaps St. B’s is just the beginning in that Diocese.

As the most junior Bishop of the Southern Cone says, “Courage breeds courage.”

They will probably sell the building to Arlo Guthrie who has a New Alice’s Restaurant in mind that he will lease back to 815…You can get anything you want at Alice’s Restaurant…

“You can get anything you want at Alice’s Restaurant
You can get anything you want at Alice’s Restaurant
Walk right in it’s around the back
Just a half a mile from the railroad track
You can get anything you want at Alice’s Restaurant

Now it all started two Thanksgivings ago, was on - two years ago on Thanksgiving, when my friend and I went up to visit Alice at the restaurant, but Alice doesn’t live in the restaurant, she lives in the church nearby the restaurant, in the bell-tower, with her husband Ray and
Fasha the dog. And livin’ in the bell tower like that, they got a lot of You can get anything you want at Alice’s Restaurant You can get anything you want at Alice’s Restaurant Walk right in it’s around the back
Just a half a mile from the railroad track You can get anything you want at Alice’s Restaurant

Now it all started two Thanksgivings ago, was on - two years ago on Thanksgiving, when my friend and I went up to visit Alice at the restaurant, but Alice doesn’t live in the restaurant, she lives in the church nearby the restaurant, in the bell-tower, with her husband Ray and Fasha the dog. And livin’ in the bell tower like that, they got a lot of room downstairs where the pews used to be in.  Havin’ all that room, seein’ as how they took out all the pews, they decided that they didn’t have to take out their garbage for a long time.

We got up there, we found all the garbage in there, and we decided it’d be a friendly gesture for us to take the garbage down to the city dump.  So we took the half a ton of garbage, put it in the back of a red VW microbus, took shovels and rakes and implements of destruction and headed on toward the city dump.

Well we got there and there was a big sign and a chain across across the dump saying, “Closed on Thanksgiving.”  And we had never heard of a dump closed on Thanksgiving before, and with tears in our eyes we drove off
into the sunset looking for another place to put the garbage.

We didn’t find one. Until we came to a side road, and off the side of the side road there was another fifteen foot cliff and at the bottom of the cliff there was another pile of garbage. And we decided that one big pile
is better than two little piles, and rather than bring that one up we decided to throw our’s down.

That’s what we did, and drove back to the church, had a thanksgiving dinner that couldn’t be beat, went to sleep and didn’t get up until the next morning, when we got a phone call from officer Obie.  He said, “Kid, we found your name on an envelope at the bottom of a half a ton of garbage, and just wanted to know if you had any information about it.” And I said, “Yes, sir, Officer Obie, I cannot tell a lie, I put that envelope
under that garbage.”

After speaking to Obie for about fourty-five minutes on the telephone we finally arrived at the truth of the matter and said that we had to go down and pick up the garbage, and also had to go down and speak to him at the police officer’s station.  So we got in the red VW microbus with the shovels and rakes and implements of destruction and headed on toward the police officer’s station.

Now friends, there was only one or two things that Obie coulda done at the police station, and the first was he could have given us a medal for being so brave and honest on the telephone, which wasn’t very likely, and
we didn’t expect it, and the other thing was he could have bawled us out and told us never to be see driving garbage around the vicinity again, which is what we expected, but when we got to the police officer’s station
there was a third possibility that we hadn’t even counted upon, and we was both immediately arrested.  Handcuffed.  And I said “Obie, I don’t think I can pick up the garbage with these handcuffs on.”  He said, “Shut up, kid.
Get in the back of the patrol car.”

And that’s what we did, sat in the back of the patrol car and drove to the quote Scene of the Crime unquote. I want tell you about the town of Stockbridge, Massachusets, where this happened here, they got three stop signs, two police officers, and one police car, but when we got to the Scene of the Crime there was five police officers and three police cars, being the biggest crime of the last fifty years, and everybody wanted to get in the newspaper story about it. And they was using up all kinds of cop equipment that they had hanging around the police officer’s station. They was taking plaster tire tracks, foot prints, dog smelling prints, and they took twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us.  Took pictures of the approach, the getaway, the northwest corner the southwest corner and that’s not to mention the aerial photography.

After the ordeal, we went back to the jail.  Obie said he was going to put us in the cell.  Said, “Kid, I’m going to put you in the cell, I want your wallet and your belt.”  And I said, “Obie, I can understand you wanting my
wallet so I don’t have any money to spend in the cell, but what do you want my belt for?”  And he said, “Kid, we don’t want any hangings.”  I said, “Obie, did you think I was going to hang myself for littering?” Obie said he was making sure, and friends Obie was, cause he took out the
toilet seat so I couldn’t hit myself over the head and drown, and he took out the toilet paper so I couldn’t bend the bars roll out the - roll the toilet paper out the window, slide down the roll and have an escape.  Obie
was making sure, and it was about four or five hours later that Alice (remember Alice? It’s a song about Alice), Alice came by and with a few nasty words to Obie on the side, bailed us out of jail, and we went back
to the church, had a another thanksgiving dinner that couldn’t be beat, and didn’t get up until the next morning, when we all had to go to court.

We walked in, sat down, Obie came in with the twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one, sat down.  Man came in said, “All rise.”  We all stood up,
and Obie stood up with the twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures, and the judge walked in sat down with a seeing eye dog, and he sat down, we sat down. Obie looked at the seeing eye dog, and then at the twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one, and looked at the seeing eye dog. And then at twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles
and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one and began to cry, ‘cause Obie came to the realization that it was a typical case of American blind justice, and there wasn’t nothing he could do about it, and the judge wasn’t going to look at the twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with the circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us.  And
we was fined $50 and had to pick up the garbage in the snow, but thats not what I came to tell you about.”

This is a beautiful story.  How blessed this congregation is that they were going to need a new building anyway.  Now they can depart from TEC with complete freedom and no retribution from the TEC hierarchy.  Wow!  This is truly wonderful.  May God continue to bless all of the people of St. Bartholomew’s as He leads them forward in Spirit and in truth!  He has already richly blessed them!

#25

They still may be sued by the Diocese.  As I understand it, there is the case of a parish in Massachusetts that was sued for leaving behind the building and other property.  Do not underestimate the greed of TEC.  I wouldn’t show suprise if TEC sued individuals leaving for the loss of income that TEC suffers.

Oh, you can be sure they’ll be sued for the startup money it’ll take to get the parish going, and all of the money they put aside for mortgage payments on their new building.  I wouldn’t put it past them to sue the departing parish for the gold fillings in their teeth!

And the judge threw Bishop Shaw’s lawsuit out of court in the Massachusetts case.

Can anyone PM me with Fr. Ward’s email address? I’d like to send him a note of congratulations.

#28

I had not heard that part.  What good news!  TEC’s gospel is the gospel of prosperity—getting as much money as they can.  Someone presented it to me today.

God is Good

Success is good

Therefore Success is some peoples’ god.

BillB, the judge’s dismissal of Bishop Howe’s lawsuit against the Massachusetts parish happened about seven or eight months ago, as I recall.  The judge said something to the effect that the lawsuit was “ridiculous.”

Cennydd, the diocese of Connecticut also sued a church that departed without their property. They asked for tens of thousands of dollars. They finally settled for ~$1000, which was the overinflated amount they put on some used prayerbooks. I imagine that given how fast Connecticut is declining (a loss of 3000 or ~13% in the ASA in the past 5 years), they are using prayerbooks to prop open doors, etc.

Sounds like the proper method is for the clergy and vestry to resign, the people just quit coming, and all of a sudden there’s a new Anglican church nearby.  Do not announce a plan.

Assuming that there just isn’t the largest RCIA class that anyone can remember, of course. 

More from the “All is Well” Dept: Two Episcopal Convents to Close.
http://7thspace.com/headlines/294667/episcopal_sisters_seek_new_ministries_new_witness_in_new_location.html

HT: La Keaton

They’re left-wing nuns (I doubt they started out that way) so it is not too surprising.

There have been 198 congreagtion that have either split or left TEC in the last 5 years. That does not include Pittsburgh since we don’t know who is staying/leaving yet but does include San Joaquin. There have been about 53 dioceses that have been effected, especially the Diocese of Florida - 17 either left or split.

I am sure that I do not have the best or most recent numbers, but there are now more than 1000 ‘orthodox’ Anglican churches of various affiliations now in North America. I just hope the great majority of them can get together in a new province recognized by the global south.

There are 1500 congregations that are part of the Common Cause Partnership. Not all are TEC but when a new province is created ... I wonder how many of those TEC congregations will opt out of TEC and join the new province.

There are a lot of differences among them….some squabbling among themselves, from what I’ve been led to understand….and if they could all come together, that would be good.  They DO demand a few things, though….such as getting rid of women clergy, which I agree with, the 1979 BCP, and adherence to the Affirmation of St Louis.  Otherwise, they’ll have nothing to do with the rest of Anglicanism.

They DO demand a few things, though….such as getting rid of women clergy,...

Is Bob Duncan a part of Common Cause?  And, if so, is he getting rid of women clergy?

I have no idea as to what he’s planning to do.

Sigh…

Cennydd, you are mixing up the Common Cause Parternship and the Continuing Church movements.

Well, in Cennydd’s defense…it is a little difficult to keep the acronyms straight. Too many alphabet’s in the soup!

Look Vitner, you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree! I am not trying to win you over on anything that I have an opinion on and you certainly are not going to persuade me on anything you have stated here. I truly feel after reading many of your posts that you have a venom about you. You are presuming to accuse me of lumping people into categories. Shame on you. You are adding thoughts that are not there into my posts. I personally think that you pick peoples posts apart in order to inject your venom. I will not respond to another of your posts as it is a waste of good time and typing! Blessings on you!

We at St. Bart’s are grateful for the love and support that we have received (and keep receiving) from the Christian community. Your comments are encouraging - all of them! Our three services today were filled with enthusiastic Christians who are looking forward to a bright future. Please keep praying for us.
Fr. John Commins - Associate Rector, St. Bartholomew’s, Tonawanda, NY

Thank you Father for the update.