Reformation Day

Thank you.  Reformation Day was celebrated last Sunday at church where it was treated as a Feast Day.  The paraments used were those used on Pentecost.  The service was quite powerful.

Thanks David.  I love Reformation Polka, though I know I will have “Papal Bulls, Indulgences and Transubstantiation” stuck in my head all day!!!

A Reformation would have been wonderful; unfortunately what we received was a re-invention, and it goes on in TEC and Sydney.

What a Glorious Day! Thank God for reforming His Church

Well, I thank you, David, for the dramatic historical portrayal from the 2003 film on Luther.

I admit to very mixed feelings about the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century.  I believe, along with the great historical theologian Jaroslav Pelikan, that it was “a tragic necessity.”  It was far more necessary than many Roman Catholics like to admit.  But it was also far more tragic than most Protestants like to think as well.  And Pelikan himself, one of the chief translators and editors of Luther’s Works in the justly renowned American edition (over 50 voumes), eventually changed his mind and departed from Lutheranism for (Russian) Orthodoxy by joining the OCA near the end of his long and prolific life.

The ironic fact is that many leading Lutheran scholars in America have done something similar, though far more have left Lutheranism for Rome than for Moscow etc.  Richard John Neuhaus, David Yeaggo, Maxwell Johnson, and more than a few other distinguished Lutheran theologians and biblical scholars have swum the Tiber.  And the irony is that in the vast majority of cases they testify that they did so because Rome is now more hospitable to classic Lutheran theology than the ELCA is, since it has capitulated to being just another liberal Protestant denomination that has more in common with the UCC than with the classic Reformation teachings enshrined in the famous Augsburg Confession of 1530 or the Formula of Concord of 1577.  Lord, have mercy.

As someone who styles himself “New Reformation Advocate,” I do believe the original Protestant Reformation of the 16th century was sadly justified, despite the grievous harm it also inflicted on the Church by rending the Body of Christ asunder.  And I’m fully convinced that the New Reformation of the 21st century is even more justified.  For TEC is now more heretical and even apostate than the medieval Roman Catholic Church ever was, and in even more dire need of drastic, root and branch reform.

So TWO CHEERS for Martin Luther, greatest of reformers.  A mere one cheer for John Calvin.  No cheers at all for Ulrich Zwingli.

But THREE CHEERS for +Bob Duncan the Lion-Hearted!

David Handy+

And a big rasberry for Martin Luther and the Diocese of Sydney from me.

#3 Now, now, hookemhooker, I’ve summarized elsewhere how the RCC was is sad shape at the time of the reformation and what is going on in TEC and Sydney was going on then.

Today’s irony is that I wish the ELCA walked as highly about Scripture as Catholic recently have. I doubt that would happen unless there was a Reformation to provoke men back towards the foundations. Then that means there also hope, for the Lord did break into the corruption then, He might again, but one warning is that all of this is on God’s time (so in five hundred years ... ).

PS—David+, what happen to can I have 24 hours to think about it? Oh well, got kept the film in budget I guess. I love the rap, the polka is fun too, but I was getting down to the rap.

ELCA walked as highly about Scripture
I meant talked, but I also wished they walked the talk too

I would guess that almost any institution would need some reforming from time to time (take Wall Street, for example).  That was probably true of the medieval Church, as well.  Luther, himself, was shocked and horrified by the excesses of his followers which he observed even during his own lifetime, and tried to get them under control.  It is highly doubtful that he would approve much of what has been done in his name, nowadays.  Would he approve of same-sex marriage (he was a monk who later married a woman), gay ordination, women’s ordination?  There is nothing in his writings to indicate that he disagreed with the Vatican on these matters.  Would he approve of TEC and the Sydney Diocese?

#10, that was my point about re-invention. Luther did not have protestantism in mind. He was pushed and forced by unwise Catholic Churchmen, if only they had said Amen to genuine reform, there would have been less deformation.
#4, Reformation has always been glorious. Look at the Triumph of Orthodoxy or the perseverance of Athanasius or the witness and final victory of Maximus, There is genuine Reformation.

#11 Well, after nearly 500 years the Vatican seems to agree with you.

(Maybe it was not Luther who would change his mind when sober)

I hope that as Protestants around the world celebrate the good things that the Reformation produced, it will be remembered that the Roman Catholic Church of today is much different than it was in the middle ages. I dare say if Vatican II had happened 500 years earlier, there would have been no Reformation—at least not from the Lutheran end.

Well said David+ (#5).

+Handy,
Another of your comments to which I can wholeheartidly concur.

David,
Thanks for the memories!  Now a heartfeld rendition of “A Mighty Fortress” and a clip from the older version of the movie- I am guessing it was made in the 50’s—would be great!

Ex-Lutheran, still Christian.

Thanks to farstrider (#14) and evan miller (#15) for your kind words.  And Elizabeth (#16), I also love that classic old black and white film about Luther.  As always, whether with movies or books or whatever, the newest is not always the best!  Take biographies of Luther, for example.  My favorite is still the classic old Roland Bainton version:  Here I Stand.  Marvelous.

David Handy+

Amen & Amen!

As I grow older I find that I am more inspired by remembering the Reformation and Luther’s bold questions/theses than I am with all the patriotic hoopla surrounding some of our national holidays.

Maybe its the election, maybe its the whole national scene, but the Reformers catch my breath in a way that I seldom feel from our national leadership.

BTW I heartily recommend Heiko Oberman’s Luther: Man Between God and the Devil.  Bainton is still good, but Oberman takes us back to the whole social/cultural/political/theological picture in Europe during the 15th and 16th centuries.

As one who grew up in LCMS, I miss the old Reformation Sunday services.  This church used to be the “Protestant Episcopal Church USA” - I’m not sure now how 815 styles itself.  I noted as a youngster that the liturgy we followed was practically identical to RC services; a friend of mine in Germany stumbled on an EKD Lutheran service, thinking it was RC.  He was not fluent enough in German to tell the difference, initially.  As beautiful as Anglican worship is, I think LCMS is closer to RC, less the smells and bells, of course.
I think the old “black and white from the 1950s” was the film “Here I Stand”, based on Roland Bainton’s book.  I saw it more than once, in Sunday School, and confirmation classes. 
I still get chills and a bit teary when we do “A Mighty Fortress”; I would wish that never changes.
Brother Martin was an imperfect vessel, loud and profane on occasion, some might say not acceptable in polite company,  but then that’s the type of person God usually calls to do His work, particularly in that time.

Thank God for the Protestant Catholic Reformation of the 16th century, and St. Martin Luther! We Orthodox Lutheran Christians rejoice in the annual Solemnity of Christ’s Reformation of His Holy Catholic Church!

BECAUSE of the Lutheran Reformation we KNOW the following:

1.) Justification/Salvation is by Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura, Solus Christus, Soli Deo Gloria!

2.) “Catholic” = “Christian” (LARGE case in every case)

3.) “Orthodox” = “Protestant” = “Lutheran”

4.) “Anglican” = A underdeveloped form of “Lutheran”

5.) “Lutheran” = “Orthodox Lutheran”, NOT “Lutheran In Name Only (LINO)”, “Pseudo-Lutheran”, or “Apostate”

6.) “Roman Catholic” = “Papist”

7.) “Eastern Orthodox” = “Byzantinist”

8.) “Corpus Doctrinae Christinorum” = “the Book of Concord, Bohemian Lutheran Confession of 1538, the Magdeburg Lutheran Confession of 1550, the 1548 & 1549 C of E Catechisms, the 1549 BCP, and the LATIN 39 Articles of 1571….all the Ruled Rule, referring back to the Ruling Rule of God’s Word (i.e., the Holy Bible)

9.) “Means of Grace” = “God’s Word and Sacraments of the Gospel (2 Gospel Sacraments, 5 Rites of Blessing)”

10.) “Real Presence” = “Consubstantiation”

Just some thankful considerations from a humble pastor! Happy Reformationtide to ALL!

I think you are one Sola shy of a six pack Pastor Mullen. A Blessed All Soul’s Day to you!

#21—ditto

Thank you #20; I agree with everything you say except point #4… I see alot of similarity between classic Reformation Anglicanism and Lutheranism.  To David, NRA #5, tis a pity that the ELCA scholars who swam the Tiber did not consider LCMS.  Why do you think that is so?  The LCMS theology is quite solid and faithful to the Lutheran confessions.

Thanks #23, Amen! Anglicanism is BASICALLY Confessionally Lutheran. But Anglican Lutheranism only went as far as Queen St. Elizabeth Tudor’s Lutheranism (following Melanchthon’s Outline of An Episcopal Church Order, sent to Queen Elizabeth) & the Augustana, via the LATIN 39 Articles — rather than explicitly excluding Calvinism/Arminianism & Syncretism/Latitudinarianism by means of the Formula of Concord. Of historical record, Good Queen Bess realised that the Formulators of the Concordia were Orthodox, and she begged that she and the C of E not to be condemned, but recognised as Lutheran….and they conceded this to Her Majesty, as stated in Concordia’s Preface.

Between the death of King Henry VIII & St. Martin Luther in 1546, and throughout the next one hundred years, thousands of Lutheran refugees (mostly Germans, including hundreds of priests) settled in England. Melanchthon & Brenz almost immigrated, and Anglicanism would have fined-tuned it’s Lutheranism if this had been the case. Yet despite such valiant Anglican Lutheran efforts as that of the KJV/AV Translator, Convert from Calvinism & Canterbury Prebend, Dr. Adrian Saravia, to King James — Calvinists gained dominance in molding Anglican identity.

By the end of the 17th century Wars of Religion, Anglican Lutheranism had almost faded out of the confessional memory of the C of E — in favour of a diluted Calvinism or rationalistic Latitudinarianism.
To the present, many Lutherans, and most Anglicans are woefully ignorant of their COMMON Reformation Confession of Faith. But there are hopeful signs of REFORM in this respect!

That’s fine #24.  YOU speak for Lutheranism.  WE’LL speak for Anglicanism.  (I think #21 meant to say three peas short of a casserole.)

#24 - It’s an interesting exercise to lay the Augsburg Confession next to the (39) Articles of Faith.  The early English Reformation was heavily influenced by Luther and his writings.  The Elizabethan compromise held Rome and Geneva in tension, and much of the Lutheran influence was absorbed or modified by the growing influence of Calvin, and later Knox. Luther himself managed to find common ground with Calvin, but not so with Zwingli.  I think reformation scholars will agree that the weakness of the Cof E is that it has no real doctrine, and what is expressed aside from the 39 Articles is ambiguous.  Germans, culturally speaking, dislike ambiguity, while the English seek it.  I really don’t understand why TEC appears to ignore or deny her protestant heritage.

physician without health (#23),

I don’t know enough about the stories of the ex-ELCA scholars who’ve gone over to Rome to give a thoughtful answer as to why they didn’t consider the LCMS.  But I do know that some of them were actually LCMS, not ELCA to begin with (most famously, Richard John Newhaus).  I have a book by eleven former Lutheran pastors (not scholars though) who converted to Catholicism called “Here We Stood,” but I don’t have it with me to consult and can’t remember how many were ELCA and how many LCMS.  What I do know, however, is that most of those who have submitted to the papal allegiance have:
1. Been part of the “evangelical catholic” movement in Lutheranism, represented by the splendid journal Pro Ecclesia, founded by those marvelous orthodox theologians Robert Jensen and Carl Braaten.
2. They weren’t biblical inerrantists, and thus would not have been at home in the LCMS.

I’m sorry I can’t really say much more in answer to your very natural question.  Maybe others can.

David Handy+

Having taught as a ‘Major Interpreter’ last summer at Concordia Seminary’s PhD intensive term; and as scheduled for the annual lecture at the Fort Wayne Concordia Seminary in January 2009, I would say I was very impressed with the quality of the LCMS. Chapel at Concordia last summer seemed far more catholic than evangelical (signs of the cross; singing; great catholic exposition) and the preaching was superb. PhD students had read Frei, Childs, and modern hermeneutics, and were very bright. Much more alert to modern challenges and intellectual vigor than what I have seen at other institutions. I benefited enormously from my two weeks. As an add-on, I read a paper on Rule of Faith in the ante-nicene fathers and had great exchanges from several faculty members trained with B Daley at ND. Having taught at the Lutheran Seminary in Philadelphia in 1985-87 and having done PhD work at U of Munich, I was aware of anglican mis-understandings of the catholic character of lutheranism (I was warned that if I was celebrating in the chapel, I should not use, because it would not be understood as anything but zwinglian, ‘feed on him in your hearts, etc…’) but also saw this as a way to explain the catholic character of anglicanism as something other than lutheran. LCMS benefits from having only two seminaries for a church now larger than TEC. This allows for a real sense of identity. I am sure there are problems and I saw indications of this. But the energy, good preaching, solid scholarship, awareness of the pain of former battles, active engagement intellectually with historical critical pluses and minuses was very promising. The two weeks I had there were very enriching.

#24—Charles, You speak for the Lutherans.  We’ll speak for the Anglicans.  Scholarly historians (of which I am one) certainly would not agree that the C of E has no real doctrine.  It is beyond belief that you would make such a statement about a body of fellow Christians with whom you have an intercommunion agreement both in England and the USA.  The summary of our beliefs can be found on page 15-16 of the 1928 Book of Common Prayer and all of it can be supported by Scripture.  The fact that we have heretical movements afoot in our communion does not differentiate us from modern day Lutherans.

Phillip Mullen (#20 & 24),

Thanks for chiming in here, and providing some helpful historical background with your #24 and some amusement with your #20, which I assume is at least partly tongue in cheek.  One of the ironies of the increasing convergence of Lutheranism and Anglicanism in North America is that the CCM document that established intercommunion between us (Called to Common MIssion) came at a time when, for all practical purposes, niether the ELCA nor TEC believed in anything anymore, so we might as well all disbelieve together.  The 1979 BCP and the 1978 LBW (Lutheran Book of Worship) share a lot in common, including the same translation of the Psalter.  But unfortunately both denominations have effectively become just variants on modern liberal Protestantism that resemble the UCC more than our own historic roots.

FWIW, I think the waning of Lutheran influence on the evolution of the C of E may be due to several facrors.  First, Lutheran influence was strongest during the lifetime of Henry VIII, especially when he was involved in delicate negotiations with the German princes and seeking to build political alliances with them.  After those talks broke down, Henry’s interest in tolerating Lutheran influence waned.

Second, Luther died in 1546, three years before the first BCP came out.  But Calvin’s star was still ascending at that time.  For instance, the classic edition of Calvin’s Institutes was published in 1559, the same year that Elizabeth’s momentous BCP was issued. 

Third, during the reign of “Bloody Mary,” reform-minded Anglican leaders that feld to the Continent went mainly to Geneva or Strasburg or the Low Countries (Netherlands etc.) where Reformed theology was dominant.  I don’t recall any major figures going to Wittenberg or other key Lutheran centers.  Now it may be a sort of chicken-and-egg question as to which came first, the selection of Swiss Reformed cities of refuge over German Lutheran ones or the growing dominance of Reformed theology among English reformers, but clearly the two things are related and reinforced each other.

But I think Lutherans and Anglicans still have a lot we could gain from each other.  And I hope our traditions do draw closer in the 21st century. 

We Anglicans certainly need to learn to care more about doctrine and to take it more seriously, and who better to do that than you Lutherans, Pastor Mullen?  OTOH, if I may say so, you Lutherans need to learn to care more about church polity.  It’s NOT a matter of adiaphora after all.  And yes, that last remark was a teasing comment.

David Handy+

#29: I’m not the only one to make this observation.  I believe it was when John Shelby Spong was accused of heresy, TEC declined to pursue the matter, saying something to the effect that there was no TEC doctrine to violate…I don’t recall the exact quote.  I first read that observation in George Mosse’s book, The Reformation, and aside from the Articles of Faith, and the three creeds, there really is no core doctrine as I understand it from my Lutheran upbringing, and my recent reading. I have heard too many Episcopal clergy, including my own bishop, say that TEC is not a confessional church, but a creedal one.  I mean no offense, after all I did swim the Thames, but all one has to do is lurk on the House of Bishops/Deputies listserv, and that conclusion is evident.

Honorable theologians all,

Greetings on Saturday night after I just finished dealing (successfully) with a clogged drain in the kitchen sink, following clean-up after a wonderful dinner prepared by my wife of 52 years, and that’s 52 years of married life, not 52 years-of-age.

I have found this thread interesting but frustrating.

I live in a gated community in a major U. S. city, somewhere between multi-million dollar castles and sub-standard human habitat, but a bit nearer the former than the latter.  My young male neighbor on one side lives in sin with a young woman.  Across the street, a homosexual man has overnight same sex guests. On the other corner, an M.D. who provides ample reason to believe that he is using illegal substances and being visited by prostitutes.  Around the corner, two homosexual men live together.

A former Episcopalian, I am now a spiritually struggling Anglican in a parish under an extra-territorial bishop,

I offer you theologians a challenge.

I will re-read and carefully analyze the comments on this thread of everyone of you priests/theologians who represents to me that you have personally participated in saving the soul, converting one non-Christian, to accept Jesus Christ as his/her saviour in the past 12 months.  Any takers?  That is what the Great Commission is about, isn’t it?  Nurture the theoretical theology, engage vigorously in apologia, but what are we personally doing to save souls, one-on-one?

Please, I implore you, tell me how to use anything you have said on this thread to help me deal with the people around me whose souls are being lost to Satan.  I don’t think mentioning N. T. Wright will help much.

Charles, I am afraid you swam a very polluted river.  Your bishop was correct in that Anglicanism is creedal, and not confessional.  I would imagine that Lutherans are the opposite, but I can’t speak for them.  Traditional Anglican thinking as represented on SF does NOT accept the notion that we have no core doctrine—even if a group of modernistic bishops did say that.  Spong, etc. is a source of shame to us—not an authority to judge by. (I meant no offense in my remark, either.)

The Solemnity of All Saint’s Sunday,
01-02-2008

Dear Ol’ Bob,

Amen! No worries!

You are absolutely correct about the corollary that Christian THEOLOGIANS must also be Christian EVANGELISTS. Christ The Word Speaks & Works, through His Infallible & Inerrant Written Word, to Create FAITH by the Holy Ghost through the Means of Grace—in the hearts of Christ’s Elect Saints.

We Orthodox Anglican Lutheran Christians are vitally EVANGELISTIC….through Christ’s Means of Grace: Preaching God’s Word of Law & Gospel and Administering the Gospel Sacraments. From carving Cross O’ Lantern Pumpkins & distributing Gospel tracts & treats to needy children during Reformationtide/All Saints’, to continually ministering at nursing homes for the elderly….and throughout the Christian Year, Our Lord’s Great Commission is PRIMARY….the Salvation of precious SOULS—by and for JESUS. This is the very sum and substance of Christ’s Reformation—God’s Justification & Sanctification, working in proper course….in due season….for Christ’s Elect Saint’s.

Heb. 6:10, AV/KJV!

+ Fr. Philip Mullen, Pastor
Ascension Orthodox Lutheran Fellowship
Columbus, Ohio, USA
http://www.netministries.org/see/churches/ch20800

Solemnity of All Saints’ Sunday,
11-02-2008

Dear Fr. Handy,

Thanks for your insight, and thoughtful commentary!

St. Elizabeth Tudor was certainly a champion for Anglican Lutheranism, and it is a real BLESSING of God that King Edward & Good Queen Bess remained in the Lutheran Fold. Despite the Calvinistic leanings of the 1552 & 1662 BCP in Eucharistic Doctrine (e.g., The Black Rubric)—the 1549 & 1559 BsCP are truly Orthodox Lutheran Liturgies, and Lutheran Confessions of Faith. It is a great joy and privilege for me to celebrate Mass every Sunday, & other holy days, using the 1549 BCP.

Anglican Lutheranism FADED—NEVER DIED—and is beginning to GROW again. Orthodox Anglican Lutheranism is beginning to reassert itself, thanks to such efforts as that of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of England (ELCE—formed in the late 19th century: 11 Orthodox Lutheran parishes in England, Scotland, and Wales) in dialogue with conservative Evangelical Catholics in the C of E, as well as other Orthodox Anglicans/Lutherans worldwide.

The nominal Christianity of TEC, ELCA, UCC, PCUSA, UMC, MCC, etc. as organisations is not CONFESSIONAL, but Syncretistic….and will be totally gone when the worldwide Apostate Church of Anti-Christ is explicitly gathered in the near future. Real Christians will continue to move out of Apostate denominations, into congregations & denominations which at least uphold the Primary Fundamental Articles of the Christian Faith. Christ’s Elect Sheep, of his Invisible Holy Catholic Church, will continue to hear the Shepherd’s Voice until He Visibly Returns at the Last Day. Come quickly, Lord Jesus!

God Bless & Cheers!

In Christ’s Love,

+ Fr. Philip Mullen, Pastor
Ascension Orthodox Lutheran Fellowship
Columbus, Ohio, USA
http://www.netministries.org/see/churches/ch20800

The Solemnity of All Saints’ Sunday,
11-02-2008

Dear Mr. Nightingale,

Sadly, TEC, ELCA, etc. are no longer Creedal/Confessional in any truly Christian sense. In the BROAD SENSE, doctrinally & historically, “Creeds” and “Confessions” MEAN THE SAME THING. However, in common Orthodox Lutheran/Anglican usage, “Creed” refers to one of the 3 ancient Catholic Symbols of our Christian Faith (i.e., the Apostles’, Nicene, and Athanasian Creeds) — while “Confession” refers to later Statements of Christian Faith from the time of the Reformation to the present. We “believe, teach, and confess” these Christian Creeds/Confessions, as stated in the Book of Concord, “BECAUSE THEY ARE THE TRUE EXPOSITION AND PURE SUMMARY OF GOD’S WORD”.

God Bless & Cheers! 

In Christ’s Love,

+ Fr. Philip Mullen, Pastor
Ascension Orthodox Lutheran Fellowship
Columbus, Ohio, USA
http://www.netministries.org/see/churches/ch20800

The Solemnity of All Saints’ Sunday,
11-02-2008

Dear via orthodoxy & GB,

According to #25, GB is now speaking for via orthodoxy, #21? But since you chaps mentioned it, I submit the following:

1.) The Distributor only OFFERS the SOLAS as a FIVE PACK.

2.) We Orthodox Lutherans LOVE Tuna Casserole in seasons of Feasting….or Fasting….with or without PEAS.

3.) We have heard it said that wherever there are 4 Episcopalians/Anglicans….there is always a FIFTH.
Given our common Reformation Heritage, this is certainly true of ALL Lutherans.

Happy All Saint’s Sunday To ALL!

In Christ’s Love,

+ Fr. Philip Mullen
Ascension Orthodox Lutheran Fellowship
Columbus, Ohio, USA
http://www.netministries.org/see/churches/ch20800

The Solemnity of All Saints’ Sunday,
11-02-2008

Dear Mr. Nightingale,

St. Martin Luther gave some acknowledgment to Calvin, mistaking him for a Lutheran! The same is true of Luther’s opinion of Bucer….at first….and other Bucer/Calvinists. This is due to Melanchthon’s screening all correspondence between Luther and Calvin, and a few other’s. Of Course, Calvin & Bucer both signed The Unaltered Augsburg Confession in Strasburg….and imposed their own understanding upon it. But Luther never learned of Calvin’s Calvinism, otherwise he would have condemned him as a Zwinglian! However, Luther did discover Bucer’s Bucerism/Calvinism—and condemned him as a trimming Zwinglian.

Moreover, Luther evidently did not know about Melanchthon’s quiet heterodoxy….a low-profile Synergism, increasing ambiguity on Consubstantiation, and a certain laxity towards both Popery and Calvinism (e.g., the Interims). Melanchthon was the greatest Reformer outside of England….who most influenced the C of E….and was Arminius’ theological precursor. Orthodox Lutherans accept Melanchthon as an Orthodox Lutheran only prior to his and Bucer’s syncretising Wittenberg Concord of 1536 (which Luther signed as a witness to what the Bucerians were confessing), but not AFTERWARD.

God Bless & Cheers! 

In Christ’s Love,

+ Fr. Philip Mullen, Pastor
Ascension Orthodox Lutheran Fellowship
Columbus, Ohio, USA
http://www.netministries.org/see/churches/ch20800

Okay, Phil, you win.  Unfortunately, you are right about there always being a FIFTH where four Anglicans are gathered.  When I am there I always insist that it be BYO_:)

Thank you to all who answered my query.  I am no historian of the church (I did participate in a group study of The Episcopal Ethos which came out of Trinity in Pittsburgh, but that is about it).  When I moved from Birmingham to Tucson, where the ECUSA is apiritually dead, I found that the closest to what I had been taught at Advent was in the LCMS, so I naturally gravitated to it.  The biggest differences to me have been a higher view of the Sacraments in LCMS, and a “bottom up” (with oversight from above) ecclesiology as opposed to a “top down” one.  I found the LCMS view of the Sacraments to be supported in Scripture (and actually not terribly different from my reading anyway of the 39 Articles) and as for the ecclesiology, I didn’t feel that the ECUSA Bishops were doing anything to propagate the faith and strengthen the church anyway, in fact, I found exactly the opposite.  I totally agree with the commenter who said that evangelism is the prime mission of the church, and in fact the LCMS parish here in Tucson is an active participant in Ablaze, a major outreach to the lost of the LCMS.  Anyway though thanks to all who took the time to respond and a blessed All Saints Day to y’all.

Dear GB, #39,

Many thanks for the laurel crown….love those peas!

God Bless & Cheers!

+ Philip

Solemnity of All Saints’ Sunday,
11-02-2008

Dear physician without health,

Welcome Home, my Brother-In-Christ (and fellow Southerner)! Thanks Be To God for Saints like YOU….fighting the GOOD FIGHT!

God Bless & Cheers!

In Christ’s Love,

+ Fr. Philip Mullen, Pastor
Ascension Orthodox Lutheran Fellowship
Columbus, Ohio, USA
http://www.netministries.org/see/churches/ch20800

Dear +Philip #42, thank you!

Also, to clarify, I left off a comma, Ablaze is an outreach to the lost of the World, not just to lapsed LCMS folk.

Dear Fr. Mullen and GB: thanks for your gentle correction and enlightenment. I perhaps misspoke when I asserted that CofE has no core doctrine or confessions.  I took the Articles of Faith to be doctrinal statements when I joined the Episcopal Church in 1990. I re-read the Augsburg Confession and then the 39 Articles, and decided that they were close enough.  Unfortunately, the spirit of syncretism had already begun to adversely affect the training of seminarians and preaching in the church. About 15 years before my wife re-affirmed her Episcopal identity, and I decided to go from Augsburg to Canterbury, the assistant rector of the parish in San Angelo remarked in the course of a conversation, that Lutherans were held together by a common doctrine, while Anglicans/Episcopalians were bound by a common liturgy.  I guess what I want to say is that while the Anglican Communion does have a core doctrine, it is not universally confessed or accepted within the communion,  especially within TEC and ACC, and even C of E. 
When I was in LCMS, I remember the liturgy “Let us now confess our faith in the words of the Nicene Creed”.  TEC notes that the Apostles Creed is “sufficient confession” of the baptismal faith.  I have some problem with the dynamics of semantics here, considering how closely related creedal and confessional seem to be.
One more point to follow #28: LCMS pastors are also alter Christus by virtue of their call and ordination.  Following the confession of sins, the pastor says “in the stead and by the command of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, I forgive you all your sins.”  I find that Lutheran liturgy and practice are closer to Rome than Anglican/Episcopal.  By the way, as I was growing up, we always heard the church referred to as the Evangelical Lutheran Church.  In Germany, both Lutheran and Reformed churches fall under the umbrella of the EKD, Evangelische Kirche Deutchland.

#44—the Anglican Articles of Religion should not be thought of as a Confession of Faith—though it is easy to make the mistake of doing so.  They were largely a political statement designed to end about a century of open warfare about religion. More like a peace treaty than a confession of faith.  While they are a definite part of our heritage as Anglicans, our core doctrines are contained in the Apostle’s and Nicene Creeds—and certainly in the Bible.  This is stated in the constitution of the TEC.  This is traditional Anglican thinking.  Our current modernist leadership in TEC barely qualifies as Christian and should not be looked to for any sort of guidance whatsoever.

GB,

I think you are quite wrong about this…or at least only half right…to say that the Articles are “political” is not to rule out that they are also part of a confession. In most Anglican provinces accession to the Articles as a confession is required for ordinands…as it should be

Reformationtide,
11-03-2008

Dear Charles, Matt, and GB—

Anglicanism is historically & doctrinally, Creedal/Confessional in it’s Lutheranism. From the reign of Queen St. Elizabeth Tudor to the 18th century, this Confessionalism was clearly and continually reiterated by Good Queen Bess—and numerous Anglican Divines in the 16th & 17th century. Sadly, the failure of the C of E to accept the Book of Concord, committed the C of E to the increasing Latitudinarianism which developed into the modern scandal of TEC, the C of E, etc.. As Calvin & Bucer proved, the Augustana/Latin 39 Articles were capable of being twisted in either a Calvinistic or Arminian (Melanchthonian) direction. But Providentially, after 30 years of Confessional turmoil in Lutheranism following the death of St. Martin Luther, the unifying Orthodoxy of the Book of Concord in 1580—brought peace for most national Lutheran Churches.

Tragically, Good Queen Bess was barred from accepting the Book of Concord—although she agreed with it—due to the power of the majority Calvinist Bishops within her Lutheran Church of England. This set the stage for the increasing doctrinal turmoil which has affected Anglicanism.

The Fienne’s “Luther” was the best movie yet, at 75% of what it should have been—Orthodox Lutheran Doctrine should have been better represented….and the actor should have been a Christian. Of course, that’s Hollywood! There is even more of a crying need for a GREAT FILM about the REAL St. Elizabeth Tudor….not a slut, politique, or shallow monarch….but a beautiful, brilliant, and PIOUS Lutheran queen of the C of E! I pray for the DAY!

God Bless & Cheers!

In Christ’s Love,

+ Philip

Matt, my point was that the articles do not stand on a level of importance with the creeds and Scripture.  I know that in England all ordinands are required to sign a copy of the Articles before ordination.  (They apparently do so with their fingers crossed, however.)  It amazes me, though, that we hear that Anglicanism has no core doctrines.  I was raised in a church which has no creed but the Bible—as if the creeds might contradict something in the Bible.  Which, of course, they do not.

For those (orthodoxy and GB) who commented on frphilipmullen earlier: I have to say that I don’t feel qualified to comment on his sanity (although I certainly have an opinion) but sadly I CAN confirm that he has recently begun posting offensive comments, including homophobic ones, on YouTube. For confirmation, just check my YouTube profile (same user name) and my video, “A rational analysis of the flood myth.” I’m afraid that he’s not doing too well as an ambassador for his faith.