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Our Worthy Opponents: Learning from the Best

Monday, January 1, 2007 • 3:26 pm

For the past six months of 2006 I have attempted to articulate how laity and clergy can work hard for renewal and reform within limited “territories” through the Strategery 101 series.  I plan to continue that series in 2007 as well.

But let’s see how gay activists in the Episcopal church used some of the strategies and tactics that we have all learned about this past year—only they were using them more than 30 years ago.


It’s always a good idea to begin the New Year recognizing where we went So So Wrong! 
; > )

It’s Sackcloth and Ashes Day for me—and I hope to spread the joy as we take a look at this article by Louie Crew titled “Changing the Church: Lessons Learned in the Struggle to Reduce Institutional Heterosexism in the Episcopal Church”.

This “brief history” of gay activism in the Episcopal church is so helpful and I encourage you to read the whole thing to gain just a part of an understanding of how the Episcopal church got to this painful and heretical place.

[You also might want to check out his history of Integrity as well.]

For the past six months of 2006 I have attempted to articulate how laity and clergy can work hard for renewal and reform within limited “territories” through the Strategery 101 series.  I plan to continue that series in 2007 as well.

But let’s see how gay activists in the Episcopal church used some of the strategies and tactics that we have all learned about this past year—only they were using them more than 30 years ago.

I’ve highlighted a dozen snippets from the article—although again, I encourage you to read the whole thing.

Note the Flagplanting & Networking here:

I founded Integrity in October 1974, out of tiny Fort Valley, Georgia, as a newsletter, Integrity: Gay Episcopal Forum. Almost immediately two called from Chicago, one a priest named Tyndale the other a lay person named Wickliff (historic names in the British reformation). I introduced these two to each other and to others who had written from Chicago. About a dozen met in Wickliff’s apartment in December and formed the first chapter.

Chicago as the site was likely not an accident. A joke popular in the Episcopal Church at that time asked: “How many straight priests in the diocese of Chicago does it take to put in a light bulb? Answer: Both of them.” Whatever the joke lacks in scientific accuracy it makes up by identifying a place known to have accumulated gay clergy, in this case, a critical mass ready to nurture a movement, a group with strategies for organizing.

Events are also a great way to flagplant and connect with others:

Within only six months, Integrity held its first national convention at the Cathedral of St. James in Chicago—a product of good strategies by leaders well connected in the diocese. Many of the members of the Chicago chapter were close to the Suffragan Bishop Quintin Primo, one of the first African American bishops, who presided over the main Eucharist. The dean of the Cathedral was extremely supportive. Several clergy members were close to prominent theologian Norman Pittenger, and they persuaded him to be the principal speaker. Dr. Pittenger, after retirement as a professor at the General Theological Seminary in New York, had identified himself as gay in a statement widely published in England, where he lived in at Cambridge University. Dr. Pittenger’s decision to take this risk led many of his former students to join us.

Interesting—here Dr. Crew and his ally decide to “go camo” in order to not hinder revisionist activism:

More “irregular” ordinations of women took place in Washington, DC, in September 1975, after our convention. In Washington at the time, on a missionary journey to our new chapters in the east, Jim Wickliff and I yielded to the counsel of friends who advised that our visibility at the ordination might put in jeopardy lesbians among all early ordinands.

A good use of “social butterfly” networking & all the usual tools of political lobbying:

In 1976, General Convention passed a resolution “Homosexual persons are children of God who have a full and equal claim with all other persons upon the love, acceptance, and pastoral concern and care of the Church.” Integrity members had proposed this specific wording a year earlier when we met with The Standing Commission on Human Affairs. Bishop George Murray, chair of the Commission, was not known for liberalism: he was one of the clergy persons whom Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. scolded by name in his “Letter from the Birmingham Jail.” Yet Bishop Murray had grown through that earlier confrontation. We got to meet with the Commission because I wrote to him as my former bishop, while I was a professor at the University of Alabama (1966-70). Others wrote to those whom they knew on the Commission. Constantly we knocked on doors, wrote letters, and made our presence known as lesbigay.

Sadly, the orthodox leaders in the 1970s and 80s were politically clueless.  This year I had a fascinating conversation with a diocesan bishop of that period and one of his comments [roughly quoted here] was telling: “We were not at all interested in engaging in political activity or that sort of thing—we were ‘gentlemen’ and gentlemen didn’t behave that way.  Of course, the other side was engaging in all sorts of political maneuvering and they cleaned our clocks.  We just had no idea.”

On Sunday at the beginning of the Convention in 1979, one of our strong local leaders in Denver, a priest named Ric Kerr, was host to the Presiding Bishop John Allin who came to see the marvelous work that Ric and his parish had done to reclaim a depressed neighborhood and create a multicultural congregation. Along with Bishop Allin came a large entourage to witness this “success story.” In his sermon, Ric came out, gently claiming gays’ place at God’s table. At the reception, Bishop Allin, with whom I had met several times earlier, said, “I knew you’d be here for this. You’re everywhere!”

Note that when a group wishes to influence an organization hostile to that group’s goals, that group decides to downplay “publicity”.  “Publicity” is used—or *not* used—as it is helpful to our Worthy Opponents.

Throughout the period from 1979 onward, many bishops have more actively ordained lesbians and gays who are open throughout the ordination process—to their sponsoring congregations, to diocesan commissions on ministry, to diocesan standing committees, and to their ordaining bishops. Few of these ordinations come to the attention of the press, nor do those in the process seek to publicize them as such. Integrity leaders now cite over 100 such ordinations, most of whom are members of Integrity.

Political influence and strategy—a cornerstone:

The secondary, but always present goal, is to affect the preaching and teaching of the Episcopal Church on the parish, diocesan, and national levels. In this, Integrity is probably unique among lesbigay ministries. For example, many members of Dignity, the organization of lesbigay Catholics, use the Dignity mass as their only church attendance. Dignity, too, has had little or no influence on the policies of the Roman Catholic Church; nor are they likely have much chance to do so in a non-democratic environment. On the other hand, most of the Protestant groups (Affirmation, Presbyterians for Lesbians and Gay Concerns, etc.), work as hard on the “political” front as the environment of their denominations permit, but they rarely have regular worship services outside a parish environment.

We really cannot underestimate the importance of Every Single Blessed Committee, Vestry, Commission, and Convention Out There—and the vast amount of time and effort it takes to participate and connect with allies:

From the beginning, Integrity has been blessed with numerous leaders who know how the Episcopal Church works, persons willing to invest the enormous amount of time and effort to connect. One of the reasons lesbians and gays have succeeded in the Episcopal Church is that we spend time learning how it operates, and then we teach one another. Almost every one of our leaders knows who’s who in the Church in her diocese, in her parish, and in the Episcopal Church Center. We know how to serve these people.

Note that they came with a list of actions—and requested specific further contacts in upper leadership:

Our board complained, and thereafter began a regular process of meeting with the Presiding Bishop. The board always brought a list of specific actions and asked him to connect board members personally to the persons at the Church Center responsible for actions of each type we brought.

How many of you are able to use just a quarter of these tactics in conventions and other venues?

Integrity began to wield real influence at the 1988 General Convention. Friends and foes alike credited us as having the best network at the convention, designed by Kim Byham, a brilliant New York attorney who served as our president at that time. He has coordinated our presence at all subsequent conventions, and he has also been extremely effective in getting Integrity’s message to the media.

For General Conventions since 1988, we have selected approximately 40 persons to represent Integrity from a pool of 80 or so volunteers. Integrity spends about $40,000, which goes to housing for the volunteers (transportation and food are dutch treats), a booth, a nerve center, a hospitality suite, publications, and other expenses. We divide the volunteers into a variety of task forces. Legislative volunteers, for example, monitor sessions of each House. Committee meetings begin at 7 a.m. Volunteers then report to our nerve center on the progress of all legislation, noting the dates of hearings at which our volunteers might testify. With computers, we generate reports far more accurately and faster than most official avenues of information. We do not limit our interests narrowly to lesbigay legislation, but put our people into the full range of venues where they may share expertise. For example, at all conventions, women of Integrity have served on the women’s caucus, as did its first male member, Integrity legislative leader Pat Waddell from California.

In 1991, enough people had infiltrated the upper echelons of deputies and committees that the activists could afford to go “non-Camo” and become “flag planters”:

For the first time [at the 1991 General Convention] openly gay and lesbian Integrity members serving as deputies identified themselves as such on the floor of the House of Deputies.

I agree with Dr. Crew that politics has not “driven” his “work in the church”.  His need for social acceptance and his ideology has driven it—and politics was but the tool that he used to achieve power, at least in the Episcopal church.

I realize that for many I am giving merely a political report; but politics have not driven my work in the church, nor I believe, have politics driven the work of most lesbians and gays in the Church. Why should they? The Church is not a significant political force today. The Church that codified heteroprivilege and heterocentric morality for the United States no longer exists as that powerful an institution.

Enough sackcloth for now.

Happy New Year!  It will probably get better, friends.  ; > )

 


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Comments:

These articles can be of real importance when talking to Beloved Moderates.  They are being led to believe that the orthodox are evil
schemers who have introduced politics into an irenic church.  Here is that proof that it was the revisionists who started it, and that we have been forced to fight fire with fire if we are to defend our Church.

[1] Posted by In Newark on 01-01-2007 at 05:36 PM • top

And so we see how the “Holy Spirit” blows the winds of change? As a RC that has always been the objection that has stumpted me - that somehow God Himself has been driving this.

[2] Posted by kailash on 01-01-2007 at 06:35 PM • top

It also shows that the GLBT movement is not grass-roots; it appears this is all driven by clergy.

[3] Posted by El Jefe on 01-01-2007 at 07:40 PM • top

Well I think that goes without saying, given that the majority of people are heterosexual, even hetersexist, if you want to play the language game. Why would Mr and Mrs Pisky-Joe Average suddenly decide that GLBT issues were of great importance?

[4] Posted by kailash on 01-01-2007 at 08:49 PM • top

It supports my thesis that the reappraisers are a political movement, not a theological movement.  Theology be damned.  Being unable to make a case for change based on Scripture or Tradition was completely irrelevant—indeed, such a case, if it could have been constructed, would have been superfluous to what they wanted to accomplish.

In that regard, the reasserters cannot use exactly the same strategy as the reappraisers, although some tactics can be adopted.

[5] Posted by Cousin Vinnie on 01-01-2007 at 09:26 PM • top

But then,having assimilated certain of the opponent’s methodology,can reasserters say ‘we refuse to practice cunning’(2 Cor.4:2)or the powerful words of 2 Cor.6:3-12?
I could be wrong

[6] Posted by paddy on 01-01-2007 at 10:43 PM • top

RE: “But then,having assimilated certain of the opponent’s methodology,can reasserters say ‘we refuse to practice cunning’ . . . “

We are to be as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves.

Too often we are the reverse: as wise as doves, as harmless as serpents.

; > (

[7] Posted by Sarah on 01-01-2007 at 11:11 PM • top

Sarah, this section haunted me after I read it this afternoon:

Sadly, the orthodox leaders in the 1970s and 80s were politically clueless. This year I had a fascinating conversation with a diocesan bishop of that period and one of his comments [roughly quoted here] was telling: “We were not at all interested in engaging in political activity or that sort of thing—we were ‘gentlemen’ and gentlemen didn’t behave that way. Of course, the other side was engaging in all sorts of political maneuvering and they cleaned our clocks. We just had no idea.”


<blockquote> On Sunday at the beginning of the Convention in 1979, one of our strong local leaders in Denver, a priest named Ric Kerr, was host to the Presiding Bishop John Allin who came to see the marvelous work that Ric and his parish had done to reclaim a depressed neighborhood and create a multicultural congregation. Along with Bishop Allin came a large entourage to witness this “success story.” In his sermon, Ric came out, gently claiming gays’ place at God’s table. At the reception, Bishop Allin, with whom I had met several times earlier, said, “I knew you’d be here for this. You’re everywhere!”

</blockquote>

I feel like Elrond of Rivendell.  I was there.  I heard Bp Allin say these things in his sermon.  I remember thinking ok, that’s nice.  I also remember the shock of my friends who were priests and deputies over that sermon.

27 years later, I can say that the confusion I overheard in the conversations with many conservative Episcopalians that derived from that shock can only be described as Biblical.  It was as if the people of Israel had been put to rout by the Philistines and Canaanites without a clue as to why their faith in God was being tested like this.

Looking back with 20/20 hindsight and a maturity (I hope) that I did not then possess, I can say I learned a valuable lesson.  Followers need leaders who give clear commands that demonstrate Biblical truth and fan the flames of Holy Spirit-driven faith.  We need buglers who sound clear notes to marshall us into line.

Mostly we need courage to publicly speak truth to power instead of whispering in hallways and backrooms criticizing and giving voice to confusion.  I well remember the latter at Denver ‘79, but I cannot think of any of the former.

I repent in sackcloth and ashes that it took this post to remind me of those days and my own place in those events.

[8] Posted by Rom 1:16 on 01-01-2007 at 11:39 PM • top

Excellent piece, Sarah, and I could not agree more with your citing our Lord’s words.  The method of influencing institutions and exercising good judgment within them is not some venal practice, left only to the devil and his minions.  It is for anyone who really believes that the message they carry is true and is worth standing for.  Stand firm!

Two thoughts, though, about the ease with which Integrity, Crew et al. worked within TEC’s structures.

1) TEC is not, and has never been a deeply theological church.  It is easy to motivate and move people more on social issues and political concerns because that is where many of Episcopalians have, traditionally, been.  In ‘03, I recall numerous conversations with fellow parishioners, cradle Episcopalians one and all, and most were very sympathetic to the reappraiser side.  When it got to Scripture and theological argument, they had little or no tolerance for the conversation and reverted, instead, to concepts of social inclusion and political rights.  But Scripture and theology is where this issue is won—and lost—and sadly, TEC is not very fertile ground for such thinking.  You might argue that the reappraisers helped shape that dynamic in TEC but I think they were ploughing and watering already fertile ground.

2)  The reappraiser cause has a built in bias in its favor.  In part, it is our society, with its drift towards social and political inclusion.  But if you stop and ask why even our society drifts that way, I think you have to admit a certain democratic logic at work that is very, very difficult to swim against.  (Again, particularly in a church that has longed to be ‘America’s church.’)  If a kindly but persistent person comes to most
‘normal people’ of ‘good will,’ no matter what the cause, they are inclined to try to make space for that person’s cause in their mental universe somehow.  And that is especially the case if all they are saying is, Hey, let me have the same privilege you accord yourself.  Again, people normally have a hard time resisting the tug that their own privilege seems to accord them.  Why not, they reason, extend that to this kindly, persistent person?  That, I contend, is what the reappraiser side of this issue inherently has in its favor: it seems unfair not to give these good folks what they are longing for.  They can count on people’s normal sense of decency and fairness to do half of the political work for them.

The reasserter side has, by contrast, a much tougher case to make.  It is, on its face, an appeal to resist this inclination, and to redraw the lines more clearly than to erace them in favor of a new line.  That is where the traditionalist always has to overcome the perception of defensiveness and, perhaps, anger.  Why?  Because it seems like you are not very generous to others, or at least less generous than you could be.

All I mean to say here is that I wonder if reappraiser politicking is by its very nature a more difficult task to undertake, and less likely to succeed, and in this church especially.

[9] Posted by Steve Lake+ on 01-02-2007 at 12:03 AM • top

I realize that for many I am giving merely a political report; but politics have not driven my work in the church, nor I believe, have politics driven the work of most lesbians and gays in the Church. Why should they? The Church is not a significant political force today. The Church that codified heteroprivilege and heterocentric morality for the United States no longer exists as that powerful an institution.

Thanks to Crew et al TEC is no longer a force, once a shining city on a hill it has slowly and steadily gone dark. Now even the PB is covering the last light in the steeple by removing Jesus. No light can shine brighter if we are all to be equal.
Before you agree with Lutibelle that his motives weren’t political think on this. If he knew that what he was trying to achieve would result in a weakening which would remove the voice of TEC from the ordering of society, it’s politics, aren’t his motives AS WELL as methods political?

The Holy Spirit has no need to hide or operate stealthily to prey on good Christians gullibilty. The Holy Spirit doesn’t need $40000 to show it’s present. But politicans do.

[10] Posted by Rocks on 01-02-2007 at 01:19 AM • top

RE: “If he knew that what he was trying to achieve would result in a weakening which would remove the voice of TEC from the ordering of society, it’s politics, aren’t his motives AS WELL as methods political?”

Rocks, I think that Dr. Crew did not want to “remove the voice of TEC from the ordering of society” but rather to harness the voice of TEC to influence society—only in Dr. Crew’s ideological direction.

In other words, he wants TEC to keep “influencing society”.  Just think, but for a few bands of renegades, TEC would entirely speak *his* viewpoints to society. 

No, I think he and other activists greatly value TEC’s influence on society, though I will grant that its influence has greatly waned.

[11] Posted by Sarah on 01-02-2007 at 06:33 AM • top

Sadly, I think it’s had a great deal of influence on politics. TEC in general has lost influence however Dr. Crew and company have used the same approach on federal and state politics to great effect.

His need for social acceptance and his ideology has driven it—and politics was but the tool that he used to achieve power, at least in the Episcopal church.

Change Episcopal church to be anything you want, including the Republican Party or anything else. I think Sarah has hit the nail cleanly on the head with this one.

It’s not about using any one single vehilce for their agenda, but acceptence using any and all route that can be influenced. TEC decline is merely consequential, +VGR made the newspapers and CNN, therefore the agenda was majorly advanced.

[12] Posted by Hosea6:6 on 01-02-2007 at 07:32 AM • top

Guys,

You know that I can’t agree with your interpretation of the Scripture relating to GLBT inclusion in the the church. But, in other issues I can see the concern.  A great difficulty in all of our mainline churches today is just the lack of knowledge among the laity of the word of God.  Even more importantly is the lack of conviction relating to the general inspiration and authority of Scripture for the faith and practice of the church.

Many folks can be easily led to accept heresy, as long as it comes clothed in Biblical sounding terminology with a concern for social
justice…

But, I personally do not think “the end can ever justify the means.” I do not think we should ever use manipulative or deceitful methods to influence the church.  As far as I’m concerned, we should be up front, loving people, and sharing the word of God.  Let the Holy Spirit do as He wills. Ultimately, Jesus Christ is building the church, and in the end, even

the gates of Hell will not prevail.

[13] Posted by Grace17033 on 01-02-2007 at 07:36 AM • top

Oh Grace: would you could be heard above all the fireworks.  Jesus’ message is a message of peace, brought to us all, not one single Peace is implied or even guaranteed.  21st century USA is having a lot of trouble getting this right: “if we can be personally rich, personally free, personally absolved from guilt emanating from our government’s sins, why can’t you and each of you get peace?”  Read scripture and this problem is quickly solved, and quickly laid before us all.

[14] Posted by terebinth on 01-02-2007 at 07:26 PM • top

” Read scripture and this problem is quickly solved, and quickly laid before us all. “

Oh how I so agree, in the Scripture the problem of 21st century USA can solved, for we do look to personal riches, yet in the Scripture the rich are told to take pride on low positions for like the wild flower he will pass away, we read how the slave is free in Christ, but the free are to be a slave to Him, and we read how His death was the payment for our sins. In that wwonderful passage in John 15 we are told not just about peace but how to have real joy.

[15] Posted by Hosea6:6 on 01-02-2007 at 08:23 PM • top

Hi, Terebinth,

You’re a blessing!! smile

[16] Posted by Grace17033 on 01-03-2007 at 08:19 AM • top

Amen to Grace!  The end does not justify the means. 

Yes we do need to be wise as serpents and I agree with Sarah’s suggestions to be mindful of the quality of vestry members, etc.  However, we do not need to become activists ourselves. 

We need to preach the Gospel!  We need the courage to stand firm which also means that we must confront heresy.  To the weak and lowly we love, support and encourage, but to the false teachers who lead astray, we must confront, admonish, correct and if necessary cast out.  We need to be able to be wise with regards to false teachers but we need to be gentle as lambs with God’s people.  This is a difficult line for all of us to walk it seems. 

I keep struggling with the Sermon on the Mount and its totally counter cultural message.  We must not behave like activists ourselves, we should primarily behave in accordance with Matt 5-8, but there are rare times when we also need to expel the wicked from among us.  This should have been done with Pike, Righter, Spong, etc…  The hard part is knowing when to love, forgive and accept one another, and when to admonish, correct and cast out.

My concern is that if we take up the practices of the left wing activists, then we become no better than they.  We become an army not doing God’s will, but seeking our own will.  Is this not akin to Boromir’s desire to use the ring of power against Mordor?  oh oh

[17] Posted by Spencer on 01-05-2007 at 09:26 AM • top

Spencer, maybe if I put it this way:  We are each of us citizens of a democratic republic.  Therefore each of us bears the responsibility and the benefits of the government’s actions.  When the government is profligate, or inept, or driven by narrow interests, each of us has the responsibility to see this, and correct it.  Otherwise the consequences of the government’s actions fall directly back upon us as citizens.  We delegated the responsibility to govern, if it is used wrongly we bear the consequences.

Now TEC is built on this model, and orthoox members are rightly angry at being ignored.  It is never easy or quick.  It requires a complex and nuanced effort on several fronts.  You must have a broad appeal and develop lots of allies.  You may not be 100% comfortable with some of those allies, but “the enemy of my enemy is…”  A one pony act won’t cut it.

[18] Posted by terebinth on 01-05-2007 at 09:46 AM • top

terebinth,
I’ll accept the analogy but I do not like the political terminology.  I would rather refer to it as the body of Christ and when one part suffers, the whole body suffers and therefore we need to build up the body.  Each one of us bears the responsibility to see such weaknesses and as you say, correct it.  If we fail, then we suffer the consequences.  That is certainly true and I agree.

However, we are also in a hierarchical church structure where we have laity, deacons, priests, and bishops.  Each has a specific role.  It is the primary charge of the bishops ( and to a slightly lesser degree the house of deputies in TEC ) to “run the church”.  This includes many things but theologically, it clearly includes upholding the faith of the apostles and the charge of discipline.  As a general rule, the dogma and discipline of the church does not belong to the laity.  Bishops give consent to Bishop’s elections.  Without being too judgmental, IMHO, the practice of rubberstamping all elected candidates is an abrogation of episcopal responsibility.  I have ZERO desire to be in a church where majority rules.  If episcopal consents were taken seriously, the HOB could (and in my view should) be able to maintain the church within the “faith once delivered” without activist groups having one iota of influence on the episcopacy, its doctrine or discipline.

Furthermore, I believe activism is fundamentally wrong and is actually anti-Christian.  It is always defined by a narrow interest and therefore using your analogy is one of the things we all need to guard against.  I suppose there might be times when using it as a tool might be justified, but I can’t think of any off hand.  I certainly do not object to “networking” by any means and even this very web site is part of that global networking.  My concern is that we might lose focus and spend too much time strategizing our agenda and not keep the main thing the main thing.

[19] Posted by Spencer on 01-05-2007 at 11:00 AM • top

Spencer: ” I suppose there might be times when using it (activism) as a tool might be justified, but I can’t think of any off hand…”  Slavery?  Civil rights?  Townshend Acts?  If you believe as I do that the HoB has gone into the ditch on basic belief, then we are in “those times.”  The problem is we behave as if it’s only +VGR that’s put ‘em there.  Look around you Spencer: it’s quite a ditch they’re in, and oblivious.

[20] Posted by terebinth on 01-05-2007 at 11:14 AM • top

You obviously misunderstand me.  Please let me try to clarify.  I know how bad the HOB is.  I also know that it started going wrong at least as long ago as the Pike affair.  Without trying to place blame on anyone, my assertion is precisely that it was the failure of the episcopacy over the last 40 years that has led to this utter collapse of TEC.  The episcopacy has failed to discipline over a period of 40 years, and it has failed to scrutinize people for the episcopacy to ensure that the episcopacy remained traditional for probably much longer than that.  Of course the problem did not begin with VGR.

The examples of activism you give are all socio-political.  I don’t have a problem with this.  I do with regards to internal church polity.  I do not believe the body of Christ is called to create factions which fight against one another.  I believe we are called to conciliar discussions resulting in a consensus.  The focus should always be “us”, and not “we” vs. “they”.  Now after 40 years of disintegration, there is certainly a “we” and “they” and IMHO, the necessary split will occur which will for the most part end this internal division and thus create a new “us”.  When this occurs (and I believe it will very soon), I believe we need to go forward with an “us” mentality in a conciliar mode.  My concern is that we not adopt the activism tactics as we rebuild the church.  If we do, I believe that there is no hope for the “Common Cause”.

[21] Posted by Spencer on 01-05-2007 at 12:45 PM • top

One more thing, I left out…
I was trying to make the argument that IF the HOB had done its job 40 years ago, then social activism would not have been able to infiltrate the church as it has.  I was simply doing a post mortem analysis of the demise of TEC and suggesting how we might do it differently the next time around.

[22] Posted by Spencer on 01-05-2007 at 01:05 PM • top

Your joke about how many straight episcopal clergymen it takes….etc.  is exactly the problem I have with this whole issue. Nobody cares if a clergyman is straight or not as long as he conducts himself in a Godly manner according to his vows. I assume gay clergy will not stress personal and private intimate conduct from the pulpit. Neither will heterosexual clergy stress last nights preferrences. We have to get over the sex part of this issue. Obviously VGR has decided to make his sins the point of his service to Christ. Having done it and not repented and asked for forgivness he is not qualified to serve. If I sought high office in the church the fact that I had multiple relationships with female members of the parish should eliminate me from consideration. Why is VGR different?

[23] Posted by Hank on 01-05-2007 at 02:22 PM • top

Spencer: I heard +Pike once.  And I have heard +Spong several times more recently.  I admit openly that it never occured to me at these times where these new ideas of theirs might actually lead.  But what you are now decrying as inappropriate “activism” would then have been—if I had been prescient—just good citizenship.  Well, OK: good lay tension, now called push-back.  Because of the absence of action (your “activism”) then—mostly in Diocesan conventions who choose bishops—HoB is in the ditch.  It can be pulled out.  Jesus saves.  One at a time.

[24] Posted by terebinth on 01-05-2007 at 07:56 PM • top

Nobody cares if a clergyman is straight or not as long as he conducts himself in a Godly manner according to his vows. I assume gay clergy will not stress personal and private intimate conduct from the pulpit.

And that is precisely why you have +VIR and the book of ‘79. You may make your assumptions but the truth, as usual, is otherwise.  The probelm with homosexual clergy was that, no matter how personally orthodox they might have been, they went places and did things which made them very, very blackmailable. And they were! Two of my clerical mentors were individually told by a once very influential bishop that he was blackmailed into pushing what became the ‘79 liturgy. And he would not have been the only one in the process. Both the Soviets and the Nazis knew the wisdom of using agents who would ensnare their victims in a sexually compromising relationship that would make them puppets for those holding the evidence.
And the rot in the Episcopal Church and in Anglicanism in general did not begin in the fifties. By then almost all of the major movers were in place. If you want to know the true history of what happened to ECUSA or the AC you will have to begin your search in the ‘30s. Someone like James Pike would never have made it to the position of the Dean of the Cathedral Church of St John the Divine or election as the bishop of California without a couple of decades of ground work. And that ground work was done by the usual suspects whose purpose was to use the Church politically, think the ‘Red Dean’ of Canterbury.
And, if you want to know who taught them how to manipulate episcopal elections, you have to look no farther than Virginia Theological Seminary who never knew a Virginia graduate who was unworthy of an episcopal see no matter how unorthodox his theology or how wayward his personal morals might be. The graduates of the other seminaries seemingly never had a clue which was very unfortunate for the rest of us. I’ve never meet Spong, but I saw too much of Pike, some of it by knowing the children of the wealthy communists who arranged his election to California and who continued to provide him with hideaways for his private sins after his election. It is amazing what money can do.

[25] Posted by Lee Poteet on 01-21-2007 at 01:33 PM • top

Hank—you are probably right in assuming that gay clergy will not talk about specific sexual encounters.  But some of them do talk a great deal about their sexual orientation, and related issues.  There are priests in my diocese whose whole theology is seen through the lens of their gay identity, and who seem to think that their “sufferings” as homosexuals give them some sort of elite insight, rather than seeing themselves as just part of a suffering and broken mankind.  There are celebrations of gay identity; churches that have regular “PRIDE” services.  I knew a straight seminarian who had some real gifts for ministry,but was properly turned down for ordination, because his current marriage was the product of double-adultery.  Elizabeth Kaeton+, on the other hand, is a power in the diocese, even though her lesbian partnership is also the product of double-adultery.  I have known gay priests of the type you describe; if all gay priests were good and Godly, one might shrug and say “Well, we’re all sinners, after all.”  But the GLBT movement in TEC is primarily a political movement, and Godliness has nothing to do with it.

[26] Posted by In Newark on 01-21-2007 at 02:29 PM • top

All of TEC is now primarily a political movement, and Godliness has nothing to do with it. That is the crux of the problem.

The Very Reverend William the Sardonic of Westley Waterless

[27] Posted by BillS on 01-21-2007 at 02:46 PM • top

If I sought high office in the church the fact that I had multiple relationships with female members of the parish should eliminate me from consideration. Why is VGR different?  

I am not sure that this is the best analogy; no one is accusing Bishop Robinson of having illicit relationships with members of his parish (other than his partner).  I for one don’t care what someone did in his or her past except to the extent it reflects his present intention.  We all give a head nod during our church service when we are reminded that Paul was a murderer, yet many people opposed the ordination of the inmate incarcerated in Florida for murder that was a lot more distant than Paul’s prior acts when he was commissioned by the Lord himself. 

No, what we are looking is repentance and amendment of life.  The tragedy of the church’s position on the Bible’s sexual standards, and the Bible in general, is that is it pushes its members away from repentence, and in doing so away from Christ.

[28] Posted by Going Home on 01-21-2007 at 02:58 PM • top

<i>You know that I can’t agree with your interpretation of the scripture relating to GLBT inclusion in the the church.</i>

Grace, you have made that comment several times, and of course the Bible’s teachings on this issue have been discussed here in great detail on multiple occassions. I am not sure here what you mean by inclusion in the church, but I assume you mean the ordination of gay men and women and the blessing of same sex relationships.  What I havent seen from you here is a detail of exactly why you consider it a matter of interpretation, rather than of rejection.

I mention this because when one gets into detailed debate about what Holy Scripture says about these issues, it generally starts with a claim that it is about interpretation, but usually ends  with a rejection of certain passages.  Once that happens, its impossible to obtain the “conviction relating to the general inspiration and authority of Scripture for the faith and practice of the church ” that you indicate you support. 

I agree with Terebinth that perhaps too much attention is placed on just a couple of presenting symptoms of this deeper disease within the church.  I am sure that some people are in this debate on the reasserter side for the wrong reasons.  But the significance of the Robinson consecration was that it provided irrefutable proof of the underlying disease, and presented it in a way that could not be swept under the table by Episcopbabble from the top.  (The internet played an important role as well).

[29] Posted by Going Home on 01-21-2007 at 03:19 PM • top

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