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Rector’s Journal: Failed Negotiations, Email Exchanges,  An Ambush, the Rest of the Story

Monday, December 8, 2008 • 8:44 am

...The Bishop and I are willing to meet with you, however, prior to the meeting, we will need to receive from you a written listing of the items we will be discussing and any requests you will be bringing to the meeting.  We will be unable to set a meeting date/time until we have had a chance to review your proposal.  As to the speculation and confusion, we are clear on what we understand the next steps to be and will be more than willing to share those with you…


On Friday December 12th, 2008, the Diocese of Central New York will attempt to takeover both the property and the assets belonging the Church of the Good Shepherd. In 2007 the Church of the Good Shepherd disaffiliated from the Diocese of Central New York and the Episcopal Church because the Episcopal Church with the full support of the Diocese, embraced teachings with regard to human sexuality that are contrary to scripture and that, if followed, will do grave harm to souls and bodies. As a result of Good Shepherd’s disaffiliation, the Diocese of Central New York filed a lawsuit claiming all parish property and assets. Though Good Shepherd sought to settle the matter out of court, making two formal monetary offers the diocese cut off negotiations and filed the suit. If the Diocese wins the lawsuit, the over 50 people we feed at our soup kitchen each week on the south side of Binghamton will go hungry, the message of the good news of Jesus Christ will be silenced on the corner of Livingston and Conklin, and there will be one more empty and darkened church in Binghamton…

The history is a lot more involved of course. My wardens, treasurer, and I sat in Bishop Adams’ office in October of 2007 and drew up a protocol for property negotiations. The protocol stipulated that before the diocese could hear any settlement offers, the Church of the Good Shepherd would have to formally disaffiliate from the diocese and the Episcopal Church. The timing of departure, then, was coordinated with the Bishop face to face.

Failed Property Negotiations with the Standing Committee:
We disaffiliated formally, in accordance with the protocol, on November 8th, 2007 by a unanimous vote of the vestry expecting, on the basis of Bishop’s Adams word, to engage in a process of negotiation whereby, if successful, we could depart with our property. The protocol, drawn up with the bishop’s participation, called on us first to present proposals to the diocese which, if accepted by the Standing Committee, would make it possible for the diocese to relinquish their claims to our property and assets.

Our first settlement offer was refused by the Standing Committee outright. No written explanation. No counter offer.

Our second settlement offer was, again, refused without explanation or counter offer.

We began to think about preparing a third. When this was mentioned, the diocesan representatives grew quite cold, suggesting that “the time had now come” to think about “surrendering” our property and assets and moving on.

The Standing Committee seemed a dead end. One aspect of our confusion was the assumption on our part, at this point still entertained, that we could use our assets to make offers for a property settlement. As this exchange of emails shows, the problem was basically that the Standing Committee rejected our offers because they were going to claim our assets as well. How could we offer to settle the property claims using what they considered diocesan money?

This was made clear by Bishop Adam’s Canon to the Ordinary, Karen Lewis in a conversation I had with her by phone.

Realizing what was happening, we decided to see if we could get a face to face meeting with Bishop Adams and perhaps find a way to negotiate regarding the assets first.

Hoping for a Meeting with the Bishop: The Struggle for Dialogue with Canon Lewis
In the past our negotiation meetings with the bishop had been warm and friendly. This time our request for a meeting was met with the following from the Canon to the Ordinary, Karen Lewis:

Matt,
The Bishop and I are willing to meet with you, however, prior to the meeting, we will need to receive from you a written listing of the items we will be discussing and any requests you will be bringing to the meeting.  We will be unable to set a meeting date/time until we have had a chance to review your proposal.  As to the speculation and confusion, we are clear on what we understand the next steps to be and will be more than willing to share those with you.
I realize xxxxx mistakenly sent you an email intended for me regarding the date of the 19th – again, we will be unable to set a date for a meeting until we have a chance to consider your proposal.  I look forward to receiving something in the mail or via electronic means sometime in the near future…

We simply wanted a face to face meeting to find out what was going on. The diocese would not meet without a formal meeting agenda and proposal of some sort. I wrote back:

Dear Karen,

I think this leaves us only more confused.

I understood that we were in a process of negotiation. Is that true?

The process you propose does not seem conducive to negotiation. If we met, you might tell us what you find objectionable about any proposal we bring and offer a counter and we could, perhaps, work something out together in a context of mutual regard and respect.

The problem so far, at least as we perceive it, is that we have put forward a number of proposals, under the impression that negotiation was a possibility, only to receive rejections with little or no explanation and no counter proposals at all. That does not seem like a process of negotiation.

Is this is a real process?

If so, please be assured we are more than willing, as we have already shown, to dialog and negotiate in good faith.

I think we need to speak face to face or at least over the phone before we send a proposal.

We need to know more about the process you are proposing.

In Christ,
Matt

She responded:

Matt,
Gosh, I’m now more confused than you.  I remember in our phone conversation approximately two weeks ago, I shared with you that I am not privy to the Standing Committee’s discussion or why they make the decisions they do.  I also said that I am not able to respond to your property concerns, that I only could be involved in conversations regarding the financial assets. And so I requested that we separate the two areas of concern: property issues and financial assets.  I further requested and I thought you had agreed, that what would be necessary was for you to provide in writing, your understanding/needs/concerns regarding the financial assets.  That would provide us something to be responsive to and the basis for further conversations.
Standing Committee’s have a canonical duty to approve all property sales.  Thus, I have no ability to influence or even deal with that situation.
Regarding the process of negotiations – any negotiation requires a basis from which to begin.  That is what we need and have requested from you.  Again, we need to have a basis for conversation prior to any face-to-face interaction.  I’m only trying to understand where you are coming from at this point in time.  A written piece will provide time for reflection on our part and clarity of your understandings.
Faithfully,
Karen

I had not agreed to provide in writing our “understanding/needs/concerns regarding the financial assets”. Rather I noted that we would like to try to work something out from the asset side rather than the property side and at this point I had no idea what that might be or how it might work. But to get a handle on just what possibilities there might be, we needed to meet face to face with the bishop. We really had no idea where we were in the process of negotiations or what was going on and to keep things from spinning out of control and into litigation we thought a sit-down would be best. I sent the following reply:

Thank you Karen,

That helps. Email conversations are sometimes difficult due to the medium.

I think I understand more clearly now and it does sound more consistent with our phone conversation although I do not believe you mentioned that a written proposal would need to be in hand before you would even agree to a meeting. We were hoping to meet in order to get ideas for framing the proposal.

The reason we requested to meet is that, as you might imagine, after working very hard on two proposals and receiving so little feedback, we would like to understand the parameters within which we are negotiating before sending another proposal up blindly.

Matt

Good Shepherd’s Treasurer, who had been copied on these exchanges, wrote back as well:

Karen,

Isn’t our position on our finances obvious from our second proposal to the standing committee?  Clearly, the desire is that we are working towards some sort of settlement here and I am pleased that we are still talking, but come on!?  You know what we want.

Our position is you have no claim to our finances, material effects, or property; your claim is that you have rights to all.  Currently, we have gone down the path of settling this outside of court with you by giving you our finances in exchange for you releasing your supposed claim to the property and material effects.  Since, the property is apparently off of the table based on the inability of the Standing Committee to make any compromise at all, where is the middle ground?  Where is the “settlement” that keeps us out of court on this?  I think it is obvious what our position is and I don’t think we need to send any more proposals, right?

I’m sorry if I appear a bit discourteous here, but I feel like we are getting the run around and somehow we need to come to a resolution.  I speak for the entire Vestry when I say we are still committed to coming to a fair settlement here.  However, based on the standing committee’s response, and your attitude (at least as I perceive it), the likelihood of this seems to be slipping away from us.  If we can’t even sit down and talk together like two Christians groups without stipulations how does this get resolved? 

Look, I know you feel you are in the right and that you believe you have rights to everything.  We disagree and you must know that everyone in our congregation has struggled hard to get us to the position our Good Shepherd is at right now.  We are growing; we are serving Christ in our community; we are making a difference and we desire to keep doing that.  Do you really want to try to crush that?  Is that in best interest of Christ’s Church as a whole? 

Even before we were split there were three Churches in the Binghamton area within 2 miles of one another.  Good Shepherd was always on the chopping block, but we have made it work to the betterment of our community and congregation.  What is the point of attempting to close us if the congregation wants to make it work?  If anyone disagrees that Good Shepherd should remain open, they left our congregation four years ago and there is only a vocal minority (two, I believe) within your district clergy that would see Good Shepherd burned to the ground.  I don’t understand why the Presiding Bishop’s opinion on selling the Church to us even enters into the equation when this Church should have been closed years ago as voiced by this vocal minority? 

We have approached this process with the hope that both sides have been honest and open with one another and I hope this desire still stands. 

Is your perception of what is going on here different?

In Christ,

Chris

To which Canon Lewis responded here:

Chris,

I have taken considerable time to reflect on your recent communication.  I am somewhat surprised at your choice of words and assumptions regarding what you believe I think or feel, but I choose to put those aside so that I may be responsive to your statements.

It is helpful that you have stated clearly your position – it has not been articulated with such clarity prior to this time.  My understandings are:

1)That you are the spokesperson for the leadership of the congregation,
2)That your position is that all financial assets, tangible personal property, and real property are legally those of Good Shepherd, and
3)That your understanding of a “fair settlement” is that the leadership of Good Shepherd receive the property in exchange for the financial assets you currently hold

If I have articulated the position of your leadership accurately, then our options have obviously narrowed significantly in scope.  Although a meeting is not out of the realm of consideration, I’m wondering as to what our meeting will entail since, as I stated previously, neither the Bishop nor I have an ability to deal with the property issue.  I would urge you to contact Holly Eden for a conversation on their decision-making process.

Please let me know if I have been accurate in understanding your recent email, and let me know what it is you hope to accomplish via a meeting.

Faithfully,

The Rev. Canon Karen C. Lewis

Now our treasurer did not write that he was the “official spokesman” for Good Shepherd. He wrote: “I speak for the entire Vestry when I say we are still committed to coming to a fair settlement here…”. Secondly, Canon Lewis’ suggestion that we return to the Standing Committee was a non-starter since, again, we received no word from that Committee regarding what an acceptable proposal might look like. With that dead end fresh in our minds, we simply wanted to meet with the bishop to assess where we were and where we might go next to avoid litigation. We just wanted a meeting.

Dear Bishop Adams and Canon Lewis,
Blessings. Just a brief note, sorry for the late reply…it’s Lent and a busy time for everyone I think. I did not hear Chris suggesting that he is “the spokesperson” for Good Shepherd. I understood him simply to be reiterating the position we have taken in our written proposals. We initiated our discussions with the bishop last year because we wanted and continue to want to do all we can retain our property while at the same time maintaining the high level of cooperation and respect between us and the diocese. I think, if nothing else, the email exchanges and phone calls we’ve had lately demonstrate the need for face to face discussions so that we do not misunderstand one another. How many conflicts, I wonder, might be avoided through clear charitable and respectful communication? That is all we were asking for with regard to the meeting, a chance to meet and talk and find out where we are.
May God bless you and keep you
In Christ,
Matt

Finally, we were granted our wish:

Matt,
I think you are accurate in saying that a face-to-face discussion will help clarify a number of things.  As such, the Bishop’s schedule is tight with HOB meetings and such, and my travel and such, but have cleared a time slot when we can both be present to you and whomever else you bring for conversation.  This time is next Wednesday, February 27, 2008 at 3:30 pm in the Diocesan Office.  I appreciate your willingness to come here for our conversations – both the Bishop and I have meetings on either side of that time slot.  Please let me know of your attendance at that meeting.  Thanks.
Faithfully,
Karen

We were grateful for this opportunity, but since my wardens and treasurer work, the day chosen was a difficult one. I wrote back:

Dear Bishop Adams and Karen Lewis,

Thank you for this. We are both grateful and appreciative. That date and time is quite good for me but not so good for Chris Jones or my wardens who, unfortunately, to a man, will be out of town.

If that is the only time you will agree to meet, then I will certainly be there.

However, it might be better for the process in general if I were able to bring my treasurer and/or wardens so that they would be in on the discussion as well and not have to hear about it second-hand. Would a later or earlier date be possible? We’d certainly be willing to wait for a convenient time.

In Christ,
Matt

Apparently rescheduling was impossible:

Matt,

I appreciate the difficulty of the nearness of the date and how that conflicts with the schedules of folks, however, we would like to go ahead with Wednesday’s meeting so we can move this conversation forward.  Unless I hear otherwise from you, we will see you then.

Faithfully,

Karen

Fortunately, some vestrymembers were able to fill in:

Dear Karen,

Weather permitting, we will be there today. Might you be so kind as to let me know how much time you have to meet with us. The vestrymembers attending our meeting today also have tight schedules.

In Christ,
Matt

Her reply:

Matt,

The roads are okay today and we’ll hope they stay that way.  We have an hour and one-half available before I need to leave for another meeting.  I believe that will be adequate time for our conversation.

Faithfully,

Karen+

An Ambush Meeting With Bishop Adams—and Bunches of Lawyers
We did make it up safely.

On previous visits with the bishop, we had been ushered into his office where we would sit comfortably and discuss matters informally. This time we were led into a conference room.

Bishop Adams and Canon Lewis, however, did not arrive alone. Two attorneys, the diocesan chancellor, Paul Curtin, and one of Syracuse’s best and most expensive lawyers, Jonathan Fellows, arrived.

Here is the report of the meeting I wrote to my vestry afterwards:

We did not have a good meeting with the bishop yesterday. Before going on, I will ask that everyone who receives this email not forward it or discuss it with anyone at least until after Sunday. As a vestry we will want to spend time on Saturday (at the retreat) thinking about how to present this to the parish in a united way and a way that communicates our trust in God. This passage in particular is, I think, important to study and digest at present:

Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice insofar as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. But let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a meddler. Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name. For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? (1st Peter 4:12-18)

John Chaney, Don Dean and I arrived in Syracuse at 3:30pm on Thursday for a meeting that was supposed to include the bishop and his Canon to the Ordinary, the Very Rev. Karen Lewis.

Every meeting we’ve had with the bishop in the past has been held in his office. This time we were ushered into a larger conference room where we were joined not only by the bishop and the canon, but by two attorney’s, Mr. Fellows and Mr. Paul Curtain (the diocesan chancellor).

In sum, the position of the diocese is that there has never been a process of negotiation and that this was our understanding, not theirs…this despite the bishop’s own words to the contrary. The proposals we offered were, they suggested, so far below what they could even consider as near acceptable that there was no way for the Standing Committee (SC) to do anything but reject them. Since the SC has rejected our proposals and since the bishop cannot make property decisions without their approval, they suggest we are at an impasse.

When asked whether they would consider an agreement according to which the ownership issue might be set aside and an agreement reached that the diocese would not to pursue the property legally in exchange for a certain amount of money (thereby circumventing the Standing Committee), the chancellor, Paul Curtain, stepped in along with Canon Lewis to say that such an arrangement is “impossible” and “illegal”. Of course, having discussed this plan with our attorney and others, I have serious doubts that it would be “illegal” and I am certain it is not “impossible.”

When discussing how and why the “tone” of our discussions has changed, Karen Lewis mentioned her email exchanges with our treasurer, Chris Jones and her telephone conversation with him in which he indicated that we are unwilling to simply hand over our property and assets. The bishop, also, expressed a sense of being “hurt” over the way that I have been writing on the internet regarding this crisis. While acknowledging that I have not named him nor specifically referenced him except in a positive way, he feels “hurt” that I consider the position of the Episcopal Church to be heretical and soul-destroying. I asked him why he would ever believe that I thought otherwise? If I did not think this matter one that has to do with the salvation of souls and the truth of the gospel, I would never have left the Episcopal Church nor would Good Shepherd have done the same.

I mentioned that from our perspective the tone changed when we began to suspect that we had been set up and handled deceitfully (though I did not use those words). We laid out to him the timeline of events from our perspective. 1. We came to him with our concerns last year and indicated that we would like to leave the Episcopal Church but wanted to find a way to do that together that would not hurt the diocese or us. 2. We were told that it may be possible to retain our property but in order to begin that sort of negotiation we would need to actually leave The Episcopal Church. 3. We did so in full communication and coordination with the diocese. 4. Subsequently there has been no hint of willingness to negotiate from the diocese. Instead we have sent two proposals and have received no counter proposals at all. 5. We received only a a letter from the chair of the Standing Committee letting us know that it is time to think of vacating the property and handing over assets.

t appears, from all of this, I said, that we have been misled. We were told negotiations would be possible if and when we left the Episcopal Church. We left and now we are told that negotiations are impossible and that it is time to hand over our property and assets.

Paul Curtain, again, suggested that “negotiation is your [meaning ours] word. It has never been ours [meaning the diocese].”

The meeting ended when it became obvious that the positions were not going to change on either side. We were somewhat hampered in our ability to discuss matters since our attorney was not present.

I suppose we ought to have been more cynical and distrusting going into this meeting. We assumed however, that the bishop would be a man of honor and the diocese would act with integrity.

For lack of a better word, this meeting was essentially an ambush. We ought to have walked out the moment we saw the attorneys but we were not yet sure where the conversation would go and still, at that point, had hope that perhaps there might be a way talk through the issues.

In any case, below you will find the “Settlement Agreement” the diocese would like us to accept. They wanted us to call a special meeting answer by March 14th.

I told them we would answer when we answered, probably after our next regularly scheduled vestry meeting. They cannot and will not dictate a time-line.

I think we will want to speak about it at the retreat on Saturday quite a bit.

My opinion is that the Settlement Agreement will make good lining for my kitty litter pans, but I am not quite pleased at the moment and you must make up your own minds.

Please read the attached documents.

Note: forwarded message attached.

The Stipulation gave us six months to vacate the building and the Rectory and relinquish all assets to the Diocese. The money we collected during that six month period we could keep for ourselves. After the completion of the first sixth month period, we might on a month to month basis, remain in the building for another six months if we agreed to pay the diocese a monthly “rent” of $1700.00.

This, as you can imagine, was not received well.

An Angry Bishop—Who Doesn’t Like Stand Firm Either
A few days later I received the following letter from the Bishop:

Dear Matt:

I wish to express my appreciation for the time you and your fellow parishioners spent in conversation with us last Wednesday, February 27, 2008, It was an opportunity to listen to your thoughts regard ting the future of the assets of Church of the Good Shepherd in Binghamton. Although we do not agree in respect to its disposition, it was helpful to hear forthrightly your opinions. Again, I encourage you to contact the Standing Committee with any questions you may have regarding their decision on your recent property proposal.

As we agreed at the end of the meeting, we expect to hear a report on the thoughts you and your leadership have regarding our settlement offer on or before March 14th, 2008. If you have any questions regarding the offer, please contact Canon Lewis at the Diocesan Office at your convenience. You and the people of Good Shepherd remain in my prayers.

In Christ,
+Skip Adams
Gladstone B Adams III
Bishop

I wrote back:

Dear Bishop Adams,
Thank you for your letter. It was good to hear from you.
Your memory of our meeting, however, is mistaken.
We said very clearly that the nearest date at which you might expect a response to your proposal would be March 26th, subsequent to our next regularly scheduled vestry meeting, not March 14th.
We are, moreover, grateful that you set aside time to meet with us but did find that Canon Lewis was somewhat less than transparent with regard to the context of the meeting and the list of participants.
I find it hard to believe that you would give your consent to conceal from us the fact that your chancellor and attorney would be present at the meeting (although, distressingly, others have reported similar experiences with you in the past) and therefore have every confidence that Canon Lewis’ lapse in forthrightness will not be repeated. At the same time, I hope you understand that the trust we once shared has been damaged in a significant way. 
May God bless and keep you,
In Christ,
Matt

He was not happy:

Dear Matt:

I received your letter on March 14, 2008 and find myself somewhat confused. My recollection of our conversation is that your regularly scheduled meeting was for this week, Holy Week, and you indicated you probably would have to move the meeting, but did not specify any date or time. Furthermore, I am well aware that you had a vestry retreat since our meeting and would be very surprised if the Stipulation of Settlement we presented you was not discussed during that time and was also part of the conversation you had with the congregation during Sunday’s Christian Education time.

I will remind you that you were the one who requested our meeting and also declined several times to provide us with an agenda for the conversation. My decision as to who would be present for our conversation was predicated upon the lack of knowledge as to what was to be discussed and therefore I believed it necessary to prepare for any number of concerns you might bring to the table. Given your lack of forthrightness and your continued writings on Stand Firm (which added an eleventh suggestion to the original 10 suggestions for resistance and differentiation: “Do Not Wage Reconciliation”) I regrettably agree that the trust we may have once shared has been significantly damaged.

Thus, I expect to receive a signed copy of what I perceive to be a very generous Stipulation of Settlement in my office by the close of business ( 4:30 p.m. ) on Thursday, March 27, 2008 . If it has not been received by that time, the Stipulation will be revoked and we will consider other options to bring closure to this situation.

Faithfully,

Gladstone B. Adams III

Bishop

Here is the summary I sent to the vestry along with a copy of the bishop’s letter above:

Dear Vestry,

We received this letter on Good Friday. You have probably already heard about it, but you should read it. The bishop is mistaken on several counts here and pretends that he did not know what he clearly knew all along with regard to our position vis a vis the present heresy, namely that we cannot be reconciled until the diocese recants her present unbiblical position

In Christ,
Matt

As a vestry, we sent the following response to the Bishop:

Dear Bishop Adams,
Thank you for your note dated March 20th, 2008. We received it on Good Friday.
You are mistaken on several counts.
First, Fr. Matt, Mr. Dean, and Mr. Chaney made it very clear during their meeting with you on February 27th that you would not hear back from the Church of the Good Shepherd until after our next regularly scheduled vestry meeting. Fr. Matt, Mr. Dean, and Mr Chaney did not then nor did they ever agree that we would send a response to your proposed Stipulation Agreement by March 14th.

Our regular March vestry meeting was postponed due to Holy week until Wednesday March 26th. You are correct that there was a vestry retreat in the interim and you are also correct that we discussed the proposed Stipulation Agreement with the congregation during Christian Education one Sunday morning. These meetings were not, however, for the purpose of articulating an answer to your proposal.

On the evening of the 26th the vestry of the Church of the Good Shepherd considered the proposed Stipulation Agreement and came to a decision. You should receive our written response via the postal service in the next few days.
Second, it is not true that Fr. Matt, Mr. Dean, or Mr. Chaney “declined” to provide you with an agenda for the February 27th meeting. Fr. Matt was very clear as to the reasons we requested that meeting. We were concerned that the once amicable relations we enjoyed together were worsening due to miscommunication and, given that our previous face to face meetings had proven fruitful, we hoped to reestablish respectful dialog. Fr. Matt made this very clear to Canon Lewis in the email note to her excerpted below:
“We initiated our discussions with the bishop last year because we wanted and continue to want to do all we can retain our property while at the same time maintaining the high level of cooperation and respect between us and the diocese. I think, if nothing else, the email exchanges and phone calls we’ve had lately demonstrate the need for face to face discussions so that we do not misunderstand one another. How many conflicts, I wonder, might be avoided through clear charitable and respectful communication? That is all we were asking for with regard to the meeting, a chance to meet and talk and find out where we are.”
To which Canon Lewis’ responded:
“I think you are accurate in saying that a face-to-face discussion will help clarify a number of things…”
Your decision to invite your attorneys to this meeting and then to conceal the fact that they would be present is both disappointing and, as Fr. Matt noted in his letter dated March 12th, less than forthright. As the excepts above show, your decision cannot be rightly attributed to any lack of clarity on our part with regard to the purposes for which we sought the meeting. Your decision to invite attorneys to the February 27th meeting and then conceal that fact has served only to escalate tensions at a time when we sought to alleviate and reduce them.
Third, it is somewhat surprising that you would point to Fr. Matt’s writings on Stand Firm as if his position and opinions on this matter have been held in secret. He has, from the very beginning, both in writing and face to face, let you know that he considers your position with regard to human sexuality heretical, wholly irreconcilable with the scriptures. This is why he, with our support, asked that you not preach or celebrate during your canonical visits to Good Shepherd. The Church of Good Shepherd has been equally clear with regard to these matters in writing and in person. We remind you of your last meeting at Good Shepherd when the vestry, out of a sense of charity and Christian duty, warned you that according to the clear teaching of God’s Word you are actively promoting and supporting false doctrine, endangering your own soul, and leading those who follow you away from Christ and into the darkness.

Together, for the last five years, we have said that so long as the Diocese of Central New York and the Episcopal Church continue to reject the clear teaching of scripture on this matter, there can be no reconciliation. If we did not consider your present course deadly to souls, we would not have thought it necessary to disassociate from the Episcopal Church.
That being said, should the Episcopal Church and the Diocese of Central New York recant and return to her biblical foundations, we will most gladly and warmly seek reconciliation. Until then, to do so would be to give the impression that this new false teaching does not, in fact, involve a betrayal of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Neither Fr. Matt’s position, nor that of the Church of the Good Shepherd, have ever been held in secret. We have been quite clear (as have you) both publicly and personally with regard to doctrinal matters. Nevertheless, this clarity has not been an impediment to our amicable, even charitable, negotiations with regard to property and assets up to this point and should not represent an impediment to our working toward an amicable negotiated settlement presently or in the future.

Notwithstanding our deep theological differences, we earnestly desire to continue our negotiations and invite you to continue our dialog, praying that the mutual respect and honesty that once marked our relationship might be restored.

Finally, we remind you of St. Paul’s words in his first letter to the Corinthian church with regard to litigation:

“Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers, but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers? To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded? But you yourselves wrong and defraud—even your own brothers!” (1 Corinthians 6:5-8)

Let us heed the Word of God together.

Despite the damage that has been done, we believe that the blood of Christ can heal every wound and bind every broken circumstance. We remain open and willing to restart our negotiations and hope that you will agree.

In Christ,

The Rector, Wardens and Vestry of the Church of the Good Shepherd

The lawsuit was filed soon afterwards.


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Comments:

Gosh! And I thought our troubles were bad!

[1] Posted by Sir Highmoor on 12-08-2008 at 10:40 AM • top

Thanks for posting this, Matt.  It is very painful to read.

This story, however, needs to be circulated as widely as possible.  The actions of Bishop Adams and the Diocese of New York need to be exposed to the light, and this should be read around the world.

DoW

[2] Posted by DietofWorms on 12-08-2008 at 10:44 AM • top

And to think that Skip has the nerve to call himself a “Christian.”

[3] Posted by Greg Sample on 12-08-2008 at 11:55 AM • top

Before all these coast-to-coast lawsuits and related behaviors began, I actually thought that it might be possible for some orthodox Anglicans in a solid parish to (in good consicience) remain (at least for a time) within TEC, as a green and pleasant island might persist in the middle of a polluted stream.

I do not think so now.

Thank you, Fr. Kennedy, for shining a light into dark places. It is not pleasant, but it is necessary.

[4] Posted by rkreed on 12-08-2008 at 11:56 AM • top

I am not a lawyer & I don’t play one on TV. If your legal counsel indicates that you can win your property/ assets in court then proceed & good luck.  I understand that you are endeared to your property. But it is simply a “thing”. I feel as you do that the new province & our way forward is from God & not by our own preference but if you are going to leave the church, then leave. God will provide.

[5] Posted by Mtn gospel on 12-08-2008 at 12:06 PM • top

Mtn Gospel,

We are under no illusions. Nor do we doubt the provision of God. Thank you.

[6] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 12-08-2008 at 12:08 PM • top

Matt,

Your treatment by the Bishop of Central New York is only too similar to what the parish and vestry of St. John’s, Bristol, and later, Trinity, Bristol, received at the hands of the Bishop of Connecticut.  You have my sympathies and prayers.  Be of good cheer. There is life after TEC.

[7] Posted by William Witt on 12-08-2008 at 12:18 PM • top

Matt+

The dishonesty of Bishops and dioceses is horrendous these days….They twist your words and seek to use them against you…..

Of course, the Bishop resents you posting on Stand Firm because it reveals the truth about himself.

Praying for you and Good Shepherd.

[8] Posted by Creighton+ on 12-08-2008 at 12:28 PM • top

I can’t get this thought out of my mind, “What kind of a bishop would even hesitate to meet face to face with one of his clerics or with members of his flock?”

[9] Posted by Michael+ on 12-08-2008 at 12:46 PM • top

Am I correct in the assumption that Good Shepherd planned to pay for the building with funds that the diocese believed were its assets and not Good Shepherds?  If that were the case, rather than, for example, independent funds not in dispute, (a major donor offering an independent Good Shepherd the funds to pay the diocese), I can at least see that the diocese would be concerned.  From its perspective, and admittedly, its perspective, it would be as if GM asked to pay off a loan from the government with funds it borrowed from the government and then asked the government to call the accounts clear?  Again, it foes back to the fundamental question.  To whom or what do the real and other property belong?  In New York, I think precedent lies with the diocese?

[10] Posted by EmilyH on 12-08-2008 at 01:37 PM • top

Emily, it would have been nice to have learned of the Standing Committee’s thinking after the rejection of our first proposal. They gave no indication that the money we offered for them to quit claim would be unacceptable. None. No where in the year leading up to the first proposal was their assumption articulated and we made it very clear to the Bishop and others that our proposals were necessarily going to come out of the money already at our disposal in our funds. If we had known that the diocese was going to claim this at the beginning, perhaps we might have been able to put something together…but instead we were told over and over again that such a deal was possible.

Of course, in any case the diocesan claim on our assets is tantamount to robbery and is morally repugnant, but perhaps, had they been honest and forthright, we could have worked around it.

[11] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 12-08-2008 at 01:49 PM • top

Moreover, it is when we realized the problem and sought a meeting to get clarity and think together about a new way forward, that the bishop ambushed us.

[12] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 12-08-2008 at 01:51 PM • top

EmilyH,
Owners of property are listed on Deeds.

[13] Posted by ctowles on 12-08-2008 at 02:14 PM • top

I’ve been asking myself why this is so painful to read.  It is not clear to me whether the bishop set out to lure you into this situation or whether he changed course after receiving counsel from other persons.  Either way, the action (of going from a protocol for property settlement to a denial that any negotiation had taken place) asks the question, “What is truth?”  And we all know where that question leads.
I think it important for readers to pray:

Father, we lift up to You Bp Adams, Canon Lewis, Mr Fellows and Mr Curtain, and all of the members of the standing committee of the diocese of Central New York.  You can love them far more perfectly than we.  You know their needs far better than we.  Bless them, Lord.  For the sake of Your precious Son, flagellated, crucified, resurrected, and now seated in glory, we pray, Bless them.  Amen.

[14] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 12-08-2008 at 02:24 PM • top

Fr. Matt,

Thank you for posting the messages and chronology.  It is very helpful,enlightening and saddening.

Mtn gospel (#5) said: “I understand that you are endeared to your property. But it is simply a “thing”.”

Fr. Matt, it is true enough that your church and rectory are just “things”.  The financial assets are just “things”, also.  In both cases, these “things” will be used to the glory of God if the Church of the Good Shepherd retains them.  On the other hand, if the Diocese of Central New York ends up with them, they are likely to be converted to funds to support the Diocese’s and TECUSA’s continued heresy and apostasy.

Winston Churchill was one of the great men of the 20th century.  During the dark days of the German bombing of London and other English cities and towns, Churchill said:  “Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never - in nothing, great or small, ...”

God bless you, Rev. Ann, your children and your parishioners as you continue to fight the good fight.

[15] Posted by Ol' Bob on 12-08-2008 at 02:37 PM • top

Thank you Ol’  Bob, our thought, and that of the parish and vestry is that if we do not resist this sort of thing when we have the resources to do so, then who will?

There may well be parishes after us that the diocese will go after. We cannot in good conscience acquiesce to the diocese and walk away without putting up the best defense we know how. We may indeed lose, but those behind us may be spared a bit longer and it may be more difficult for the diocese to steal the property of other parishes if we make it costly for them to steal ours.

[16] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 12-08-2008 at 02:54 PM • top

EmilyH (#10),

Wow!  Your areas of expertise seem to know no boundaries, either in geography or subject matter.  Last week it was the trust funds in Colorado and now real and personal property in New York.  ; < )

Reading your comments, your expertise is not quite as obvious to me as your bias.  ; < )

I look forward to your next lesson on these matters.  Keep’em coming!  ; < )

God bless.

[17] Posted by Ol' Bob on 12-08-2008 at 03:20 PM • top

[13] ctowles wrote

Owners of property are listed on Deeds.

This is true in the case of real property. In the case of funds, in an organization such as a parish church, the representatives of the owners are listed, typically by name, on the records of the bank accounts in which they are deposited and held.

The individuals representing the Diocese in this instance (and I do mean all of them involved in what Matt+ has described) are, at root, nothing but thieves with respect to any parish funds that were owed to the dioces as a part of an unpaid outstanding diocesan assessment at the time that Good Shepherd withdrew from the diocese.

Blessings and regards,
Martial Artist

[18] Posted by H. Potter (aka Martial Artist) on 12-08-2008 at 03:29 PM • top

Matt,

You, your family and Church of the Good Shepherd are in all of our prayers at St. Andrew’s.  God’s blessings on you all.

Warren

[19] Posted by Warren on 12-08-2008 at 03:33 PM • top

All I would ask, Fr. Matt, is that you continue, as legal intricacies allow, to continue to make this as public a fight as possible.  No more phone calls (unless you record them), no more casual conversations, the Diocese has already crossed the rubicon of good manners for you, it’s all downhill from here with them.

As I read these letters, analytically as I am capable, what I see is a Bishop who, much like Peter Lee, had charted a course within his own diocese in the fashion to which he was accustomed (without meddling from 815, BeerKat, and the Phips) and then as the national picture of churches and diocese leaving TEC took hold, received instructions from 815 that instantly transformed you and your congregation from a unneeded thorn in the Bishop’s side to a life or death struggle for control of the Church.  Unfortuntately, your property has become the rope and flag in a massive tug of war irrespective to what happens to the ground underneath it. 

Your dire mission, as this goes forward, shall be to make sure the ground underneath is not too trampled for new grass to grow after the battle.  A task for which you are solidly prepared, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually, if my judgment of character is still intact.

God Bless You and all the souls at Good Shepherd, and
Keep the Faith….mrb

[20] Posted by Mike Bertaut on 12-08-2008 at 03:40 PM • top

I take it EmilyH planted herself in the midst of StandFirm in order to be a disputer.  Isn’t that the sort of person Scripture warns us to have nothing to do with?

[21] Posted by monologistos on 12-08-2008 at 03:42 PM • top

[21] monologistos,

I believe you are correct, which is why I have suggested a fair number of times that she, as well as the trolls who sometimes visit, be, to use an old Briticism, sent to Coventry.”

Blessings and regards,
Martial Artist

[22] Posted by H. Potter (aka Martial Artist) on 12-08-2008 at 03:50 PM • top

I would echo William Witt #7.  Many similarities exist in the actions that Holy Comforter, Broomfield received from Rob O’Neill in Colorado.  Praise God for His faithfulness and give thanks especially in our trials and tribulations.

[23] Posted by Husker on 12-08-2008 at 03:54 PM • top

There must be a class these guys all take to get like this.

[24] Posted by Jeffersonian on 12-08-2008 at 04:32 PM • top

I fear the name of that class may be Law School. grin

[25] Posted by rkreed on 12-08-2008 at 04:54 PM • top

IMHO, it’s a combination of rkreed’s assertion in #25 and being bullied by 815.  Fear can cause a person to do so many things, generally not good things.

[26] Posted by Florida Anglican [Support Israel] on 12-08-2008 at 04:56 PM • top

But, Florida Anglican, I keep asking myself “Bullied with what??” 815 can’t do anything legally - that’s not how ECUSA is set up. Is it just the fear of inhibition or being deposed? I wonder about this especially with Bishop Lee in Virginia. They had a protocol created by the churches and the diocese that they had spent two years (I think) working on, one church already departed under the protocol, to everyone’s agreement, then +KJS is elected, and Peter Lee “goes legal.” What could she possible have threatened him with to create such a toxic atmosphere? Are the bishops so weak they can’t push back against strong pressure? Or are they so afraid of losing (what?), that they cave? Are they so bound to the club of the HOB that they can’t bear to be kicked out? I really wish at least one of these bishops would be honest and tell us what is going on here between diocese and 815. There’s something really wrong when those of good intention, even if on opposite sides, end up in such turmoil because of the office of the presiding bishop.

[27] Posted by Branford on 12-08-2008 at 05:27 PM • top

“The floor of hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.”
St. John Chrysostom

(The skulls of Canons make good paving material, too, I bet.)

[28] Posted by Dilbertnomore on 12-08-2008 at 05:50 PM • top

Observations:
1) It appears to me that most of the correspondence (in this entry) received by Matt from the Canon and the Bishop was written by lawyers.
2) Reading this for what it is brings tears to my eyes.
3) “His speech was smoother than butter, But his heart was war; His words were softer than oil, Yet they were drawn swords.” Ps 55:21
4) The night before his betrayal Christ said these words: this is my body given for you…this is my blood of the new covenant…

Lord have mercy on these bishops and canons. Matt my prayers are with you and Good Shepherd.

[29] Posted by Mana Holman on 12-08-2008 at 06:00 PM • top

(A couple flippant remarks about bishops, for which I hope the good folks at Good Shepard will forgive me, this being a very serious time for them).

“The floor of hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.”
St. John Chrysostom

I am tempted to ask what it would cost to get that printed in Greek on 88 T-shirts. The study of Greek no longer being requisite to the office of bishop, having been replaced by Property Law 405, I bet 3/4 of the shirts would be worn around by the recipient.  For years I had a sign on my desk: “Illegitimi non carborundum.”  None of the senior members of the firm knew what it meant.

[30] Posted by tjmcmahon on 12-08-2008 at 06:17 PM • top

Emily, while you, like the PB and her minions might feel that everything TEC has is it’s, and everything every individual congregation has, has paid for, has maintained, etc. is TEC’s as well, it simply isn’t. Nor is it Christian, it is in fact criminal, and corrupt. I pray each day for all of you to be exposed for what you are, as soon as possible.

[31] Posted by mari on 12-08-2008 at 06:23 PM • top

Now that (30) is out of my system….

Matt, you and your family and your congregation will be in my prayers in the coming week.  It seems that we know many who will celebrate their Christmas Mass this year in grade school auditoriums, living rooms and probably, somewhere, in a barn.  But maybe that is more fitting than a cathedral.  The Church did not begin in a cathedral.  I hope and pray you can keep your building, but even if you lose it, know that you will keep your Faith.

[32] Posted by tjmcmahon on 12-08-2008 at 06:27 PM • top

Brandon,

I would imagine any number of fears could be realized:
loss of position
loss of power
loss of pension
loss of prestige
possible inhibition
possible deposition

Anyone else?

[33] Posted by Florida Anglican [Support Israel] on 12-08-2008 at 06:30 PM • top

Well, the bishops can’t lose their pension no matter what they do. I can see the other areas as possibilities - but I just can’t get my head around Bishop Lee in Virginia - moving ahead with the protocol agreement and then doing a 180 when +KJS is elected - and only then. For some reason, that really perplexes me. There’s something more there, I just wish I knew what it was. I can’t believe all of these bishops are this weak, but maybe they are. I don’t know Bishop Adams’s story - he just sounds extremely weak from Matt’s+ description here. What a sorry story.

[34] Posted by Branford on 12-08-2008 at 06:38 PM • top

Since the SC has rejected our proposals and since the bishop cannot make property decisions without their approval, they suggest we are at an impasse.

It was my understanding that the Bishop was the highest authority in the Episcopal church but it now seems that the Standing Committee has more authority than the Bishop. This is somewhat like finding out that the Anglican Consultive Council has more authority than the Archbishop of Canterbury.
How did committees become more powerful than the leaders of our church?

[35] Posted by Betty See on 12-08-2008 at 06:39 PM • top

35- Actually, it varies by diocese.  In a “catholic” diocese, the bishop has more authority than in a “congregational” diocese.  Many of the questions in the formation of TEC in the 1780s revolved around whether it would be more bishop centered (Seabury in Connecticut) or congregational (Virginia).  However, as has been pointed out by a couple of the legal experts, under a strict interpretation of the national canons, you can arguably have a diocese without a bishop at all, so long as one comes through periodically to confirm people (although in the modern day, this is a mere formality in most places), and the presbyters are ordained by a bishop, somewhere.

[36] Posted by tjmcmahon on 12-08-2008 at 06:49 PM • top

Branford,

Please accept my humble apologies for calling you “Brandon”.  I am quite ill with a 99.5 temp (my “normal” is 97.7) so I’m “not all there”.  Mea culpa!

[37] Posted by Florida Anglican [Support Israel] on 12-08-2008 at 07:33 PM • top

“Illegitimi non carborundum.” None of the senior members of the firm knew what it meant.

Maybe they knew Latin? wink

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

(‘Carborundum’ is a made-up modern trade name, and the Latin for ‘bastard’ is ‘nothus’.)

[38] Posted by gone on 12-08-2008 at 08:06 PM • top

Father Matt, just for fun, do you have a total of how much of Good Shepherd’s assets were contrubuted by the diocese or 815?  I cannot see why the church’s assets could not be used to purchase the property.  If your congregation contributed the funds, why doesn’t your vestry have the power to spend them?

[39] Posted by terrafirma on 12-08-2008 at 08:48 PM • top

I was also struck by Jill’s question (#14): why is this so painful to read? For me, it’s due to the anger it raises up in me. Anger at deceit, anger at the misuse or abuse of faithful people, anger at losing my trust of other Christians, anger at the injuries being done to Christ’s Bride, the Church, and to Christ Himself. My Advent journey is to leave these awful things behind, to prepare for His coming, both as a child and later as Christus Rex. I grieve what is happening to your good people, Fr. Matt, and to faithful parishes across North America. Pray that we can leave behind anger, and forgive those who hurt us. Pray they might all may heed Our Lord’s teachings and know His love and grace, once again.

[40] Posted by old believers on 12-08-2008 at 08:54 PM • top

Phil,
That was part of the joke.  I was given the sign by high school buddies because I was the kid who corrected everyone’s grammar (“Abutebaris modo subjunctivo, etc.” [I think- been a long time]).
Noli nothis permittere te terere.
for more amusing Latin:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/omnibus.html

[41] Posted by tjmcmahon on 12-08-2008 at 08:56 PM • top

But, Florida Anglican, I keep asking myself “Bullied with what??” 815 can’t do anything legally - that’s not how ECUSA is set up.

Actually it may be.  I was told that one of the tactics 815 can use it to sue the Standing Committee, or here in Dio Dallas more likely the Board of Directors of the Corporation of the Dio Dallas, for not adequately protecting the assets of the Diocese and the financial interest of The Episcopal Church.  815 may very well not win a personal law suit against members of either body, but it costs a bundle to defend and most individuals don’t have access to TEC’s war chest.

[42] Posted by Edwin on 12-08-2008 at 09:31 PM • top

14 and 40,
I will apologize for being in that state of cynical humor that often follows anger, for me, when I feel there is nothing I can do about a situation.
You could discern the state of this church from my email inbox.  One from an ACNA priest trying to organize a Christmas Mass for the small congregation that meets in his living room. A couple from another priest downstate on what is going on in his parish (kicked out of its church by the bishop in a scenario similar to what Matt+ and his congregation are going through) and a report from Wheaton. All the others I have had recently from clergy (TEC or Anglican, liberal or conservative, priest or bishop) contain the words “Please keep this confidential”.  Which by itself tells me things about the state of the church, even without reading the contents of the emails.
Still, I don’t believe that our Lord called saints and martyrs to guide the church through the last two millenia to see it broken by TEC and a few fallen bishops.  All my training in planning and statistics tells me that TEC may not outlive me- it will be gone in a generation.  Whether the Anglican Communion will survive this agony (the AC is certainly taking its time pulling the knife out and sewing the wound- or maybe ++Rowan sees the same thing in the statistics I see and sees the problem evaporating in 10 or 15 years) is hard to predict, but the Church will survive.

[43] Posted by tjmcmahon on 12-08-2008 at 09:32 PM • top

Phil,
That was part of the joke.  I was given the sign by high school buddies because I was the kid who corrected everyone’s grammar (“Abutebaris modo subjunctivo, etc.” [I think- been a long time]).

TJ,

Sorry to be so literal-minded.  I’d spent half the evening arguing with Calvinists. wink

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

[44] Posted by gone on 12-08-2008 at 09:36 PM • top

I don’t think that EmilyH’s comment was particularly contentious.  Nor do I think that it’s helpful when a dissenting voice gets attacked and shouted down.  If you don’t like what she has to say, either ignore her as a troll, or write back and refute it.  There is no virtue in the personal attack approach that commenters above have chosen instead.

Matt, I do sympathize with your parish.  I fervently hope that your congregation and those in the community that depend on it will find new property (New York law seems to make the struggle to retain current property a hopeless one) and continue operating and growing.  I also think that you have been treated in less than an open, honest, and Christian way by your former diocese.

That said, there is an important and basic legal principle illustrated here:  an agreement to agree means nothing.  I don’t question that there was some reason to conclude that you’d be able to reach a deal with the diocese.  But I do not see in your Rector’s Journal entries where the diocese promised you something concrete or enforceable.  And although I can understand why you feel misled, it also does not appear that you’ve been harmed by or have a cause of action related to the diocese’s advice.  (Had they not advised you to disaffiliate first, you still would have left TEC, and the diocese still would have declined to relinquish their claims on your property.)

Lastly, those in this thread who assert a parallel with Virginia do so understandably but are wrong about the facts in Virginia.  I won’t say any more because even I am tired of that same old debate again.

[45] Posted by DavidH on 12-08-2008 at 11:26 PM • top

Fr. Matt,
What comes to mind when I read through the letters and the comments is what my patron saint did when he was told to hand over the treasure of the church.  His name was Laurence and he took all the people to be turned over.

So literally, gather ALL the parishioners of Good Shepherd and take them and go to the bishop and ask him what he wants you to do with the treasure, per his direction!  His response will very telling and would make for an incredible story of rejection of the church’s wealth!  Please keep us posted as to what happens and if you would so choose to take this challenge.

All our prayers are with you during this trial,
Fr. Laurence Kirchner

[46] Posted by Fr. K on 12-09-2008 at 01:35 AM • top

DavidH,

The point of these journals has not been to build a legal case against my former bishop and diocese’s actions. I do not care whether an “actionable” cause might be found. I would not bring it. I care that those who call themselves Christian have acted so deceitfully and, indeed, ruthlessly to destroy a flock. There may not be a court in this land that will be able to judge between us. There is, however, a Judge in Heaven and nothing lies beyond his sight and purview.

[47] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 12-09-2008 at 04:27 AM • top

ctowles, 13, wrote: “Owners of property are listed on Deeds.”

Funny how that changes when the breakaway folks need it to.  Just ask The Falls Church, Church of the Word, and St. Stephen’s Church, each of whom has expended significant effort this fall to claim land for which their names are not on the deeds.

Matt+, 47, I don’t doubt it that you have higher motivations or dispute your last sentence at all.  As I said above, my best wishes to you and those in your care.

[48] Posted by DavidH on 12-09-2008 at 06:31 AM • top

DavidH (#45 & 48),

You said:  “Funny how that changes when the breakaway folks need it to.”

In this and another thread on the same subject you sound suspiciously like a lawyer.  If I have misinterpreted your comments, I apologize for possibly defaming you.

Assuming you are a lawyer, it seems a bit disingenuous to attribute legal pleadings to clients.  I rather doubt that the clergy or parishioners in the cases you mention chose or drafted the pleadings you cite.

Again, assuming you are a lawyer, a litigator, I would be surprised if you would sacrifice a client’s best chance of prevailing for the sake of consistency.

Economics is one of my areas of interest.  I read an article recently by a prominent geo-politician who, perhaps in jest, hypothesized that the reason for several major economies being in trouble was that the leaders had too many economists as advisors.

I sometimes think that among TECUSA’s several problems may be too many theologians, too many lawyers and too many lawyer-theologians or too many theologian-lawyers and not enough parish priests dedicated to bringing Christ’s salvation to the unsaved.

God bless.

[49] Posted by Ol' Bob on 12-09-2008 at 08:09 AM • top

#49, if I remember correctly, DavidH is not an attorney. He does however live in Virginia.

It is my understanding that EmilyH is an attorney. The whole H family seems replete with legal opinions.

smile

The Episcopal Church: We blink at reality more than fifteen times a minute.

[50] Posted by Matthew A (formerly mousestalker) on 12-09-2008 at 08:13 AM • top

I sometimes think that among TECUSA’s several problems may be too many theologians, too many lawyers and too many lawyer-theologians or too many theologian-lawyers and not enough parish priests dedicated to bringing Christ’s salvation to the unsaved. 

TEC’s problem may be too many lawyers.  It is definitely not too many theologians!

[51] Posted by William Witt on 12-09-2008 at 10:43 AM • top

#51 William Witt,
I think you are onto something as I feel that the USA has too many lawyers and not enough true Christian! smile

[52] Posted by TLDillon on 12-09-2008 at 10:50 AM • top

I resemble that remark.

[53] Posted by Moot on 12-09-2008 at 11:52 AM • top

Matt, thanks so much for the boldness and time involved here in recounting these painful incidents.

Someone above suggests that you mention how much of your assets came from the congregation and how much from the diocese.  That would be interesting to hear, along with when the church was built, how long most of the parishoners have been with you, your ASA history, etc. - your chart isn’t in the Episcopal Church stats any more.  This information is good for having some concrete details when discussing with others - even if, e.g., the building was constructed ages ago, it’s still good to know just to be able to pad the story out a bit more with some live detail.

I do hope more get over the “do not publish” scruples.  This alone I suppose makes me warmer on the notion of a new province - once people who are either doing ministry, or considering doing ministry, are out of reach of the TEC apparatus, they are more free to shed some light on the inner workings of the TEC apparatus - and attempts at reform will be better informed, and better targeted.  I myself am not such a good example when it comes to the “do not publish” scruples thing, I’m afraid - but I am very much heartened by seeing what others write.

[54] Posted by j.m.c. on 12-09-2008 at 01:08 PM • top

Here is an interesting entry from the Chapel of the Cross website.  As many of you know, both Peter Lee and Robert Duncan were clergy there.  This is the first I read about this.  Comments below.

“St. Ives Fund
The Episcopal Church has been forced to litigate in many cases around the country to maintain ownership of its property for present and future generations. This effort is expensive, and to underwrite it the Church has established the St. Ives Fund, named in honor of the patron saint of lawyers. If you wish to contribute, make out checks to The Domestic and Foreign Missionary Society (the corporate name for the Episcopal Church) with “St. Ives Fund” written in the memo line, and send it to The Episcopal Church Center, 815 Second Avenue, New York, New York 10017, Attention The Rev. Susan McCone.”
http://www.thechapelofthecross.org/content/view/334/352/

(1) Fortuantely for St. Ives, he now sees God face to face, so he is no position to be disquieted over his name being used for unworthy purposes.

(2) I propose that, in response, Catholics form the Levi Ives fund for the purpose of defraying the legal cost of Episcopal parishes and other institutions from joining the Catholic Church.

[55] Posted by Violent Papist on 12-09-2008 at 03:10 PM • top

Hi JMC,

1. None of our assets came from the Diocese or the Episcopal Church.

Good Shepherd was incorporated in 1873. There have been times when the diocese made loans to the church but all were paid back long ago. And, moreover, the assessments we have paid to the diocese in our history could pay the value of the property many times over. The initial gift that caused Good Shepherd to be built was by an individual female layperson who wanted a church on the south side across the river from Binghamton.

2. When I arrived in 2002, there were 47 regular worshippers…that was our ASA. I would say about 15-20 of them remain.

3. Now we have an ASA of around 90-100 and most of those who worship here are: new converts, Christian non-Episcopalian from other traditions, college students from evangelical backgrounds. About 20 are from the congregation in 2002. Many left in 2003 because they agreed with the dioceses position.

4. If you were to average the ages out you would probably come to a number around 35-40

5. Most, saving the college kids and a few professors, are not college educated.

[56] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 12-09-2008 at 03:15 PM • top

More “St. Ives” curiosities.  The seaside resort of St. Ives, Cornwall - named after a different St. Ives from St. Ives the lawyer - was the site of an infamous atrocity during the uprisings against the imposition of the Book of Common Prayer.  Some things never change.

In honesty, I suspect whoever came up with the name the name “St. Ives” was a snooty Anglophile who thinking of the seaside resort and pleasant vacations and conflated the two people.  The Cornish “St. Ives” was actually an Irishwoman, St. Ia (if she even existed) while the lawyer St. Ives (or St. Ivo) was a medieval churchman from Brittany.  Wikipedia has provided us St. Ives reputed epitaph, which I did not know previously.

“On his tomb was supposedly inscribed in Latin: Sanctus Ivo erat Brito/ Advocatus et non latro/ Res miranda populo. Roughly translated, this means: “St Ives was Breton/ A lawyer and not a thief/ Marvelous thing to the people.” Literally translated, it is a quip that refers to the fact that lawyers have a reputation for thievery.”

[57] Posted by Violent Papist on 12-09-2008 at 03:27 PM • top

Matt—

FYI, please note the following Disciplinary Rule from the New York Lawyer’s Code of Professional Responsibility:

“DR 7-104 [1200.35] Communicating With Represented and Unrepresented Parties.

A. During the course of the representation of a client a lawyer shall not:

1. Communicate or cause another to communicate on the subject of the representation with a party the lawyer knows to be represented by a lawyer in that matter unless the lawyer has the prior consent of the lawyer representing such other party or is authorized by law to do so.”

I have always regarded this as the anti-ambush rule.  Some lawyers take this more seriously than others, it would appear.

YiC,

Scout

[58] Posted by Scout on 12-09-2008 at 03:51 PM • top

Matt,
Thanks for the extra info, it does help get a fuller picture of your church.  Doubled your ASA!  Nice going.

[59] Posted by j.m.c. on 12-09-2008 at 03:52 PM • top

Ol’Bob, 49, wrote:

Assuming you are a lawyer, it seems a bit disingenuous to attribute legal pleadings to clients.  I rather doubt that the clergy or parishioners in the cases you mention chose or drafted the pleadings you cite.

It is not disingenuous at all.  Legally, lawyers act for, on behalf of, and with at least the general approval of their clients.  Clients are bound by what their lawyers say.  Or take the intuitive or common sense approach—would you not find it strange if a client was trumpeting “the sky is green” at the same time their lawyer was asserting that “the sky is red”? 

Your second sentence is obviously true but not at all at odds with my remark above. 

Again, assuming you are a lawyer, a litigator, I would be surprised if you would sacrifice a client’s best chance of prevailing for the sake of consistency.

It’s always a balance.  Litigators spend a lot of time beating each other about the head for inconsistency.  But litigators also like to plead in the alternative and so forth.

mousestalker, 50, since I don’t know Emily, I’d guess there are at least two “H” families here.

Dr. Witt, 51, I agree—there is too much of a focus on structure, property, and legalities.  On the other hand, that’s easy for someone with a decidedly more Protestant than Anglican/Catholic viewpoint to say.

[60] Posted by DavidH on 12-09-2008 at 07:12 PM • top

If we can’t even sit down and talk together like two Christians groups without stipulations


Well there’s your problem.  You made an assumption regarding the religious affiliation of your opponents.

[61] Posted by The Pilgrim on 12-09-2008 at 07:26 PM • top

DavidH (#60),

You danced very cleverly around the issue of whether you are a lawyer, while continuing to pontificate of legal issues.

Are you a lawyer?

God bless.

[62] Posted by Ol' Bob on 12-09-2008 at 07:55 PM • top

Well, I’m not a lawyer, and but if I were in charge of settling this I would simply order TEC and ACNA to share any disputed buildings.  Any buildings they were unwilling to share I would have cut in half (swords won’t do the trick, but C4 certainly would).

I guess that’s why I’m not a lawyer.

[63] Posted by AndrewA on 12-09-2008 at 08:01 PM • top

Ol’ Bob.
Indeed lawyers have their own ethical obligations in the conduct of litigation and the filing of pleadings, independently of the client.  Most lawyers are aware of something in the Federal court system called Rule 11.  You may find something similar in most state courts.

Not that I think that David Booth Beers or his minions and allies have violated Rule 11 - almost certainly quite the opposite.

[64] Posted by Violent Papist on 12-09-2008 at 08:08 PM • top

Andrew A: We understand that you are not a lawyer but Ol’ Bob (#62) asked David H (#60) if he was a lawyer and I don’t think that question has been answered yet.

[65] Posted by Betty See on 12-09-2008 at 09:16 PM • top

Andrew A: We understand that you are not a lawyer but Ol’ Bob (#62) asked David H (#60) if he was a lawyer and I don’t think that question has been answered yet.

I’m not DavidH’s keeper.  I was just expressing my opinion on how things SHOULD be solved.  Share the church (including fiscal resposiblity for upkeep) or blow it up.

[66] Posted by AndrewA on 12-09-2008 at 09:21 PM • top

AndrewA (#66),

You said:  “...blow it up.”

Blow it up!  Blow it up?

God bless.

[67] Posted by Ol' Bob on 12-09-2008 at 09:37 PM • top

Andrew A, Sharing space does seem to be a reasonable solution and I wish those who are intent on prosecuting lawsuits would be open to reasonable solutions.
I apologize if my post (#65) appeared to be a criticism of you or what you wrote, I didn’t intend for it to sound that way.

[68] Posted by Betty See on 12-09-2008 at 09:49 PM • top

Maybe we should know when we are speaking to lawyers, they may have been recruited to do legal research here.
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/18530/
By the way Andrew A, I don’t think it would ever be a good solution to blow up a church.

[69] Posted by Betty See on 12-09-2008 at 10:17 PM • top

[63] AndrewA,

You wrote:

Any buildings they were unwilling to share I would have cut in half (swords won’t do the trick, but C4 certainly would).

It strikes me that C-4 is just the least little bit excessive. Remember, the military adage is that “there is no problem so great that it cannot be solved by the judicious application of a suitable amount of high explosives.” Please note the two highlighted words. Because the objective is to have useable remainders after the operation, judicious and suitable would seem to indicate a preference for primer cord (aka det cord) rather than C-4. wink

Blessings and regards,
Martial Artist

[70] Posted by H. Potter (aka Martial Artist) on 12-09-2008 at 10:20 PM • top

We had a similar experience while negotiating with DoD.  I believe a letter or phone call from Shori or her henchmen completely changed Stanton’s stance.  At one point he had laid out pretty clear guidelines for disassociating from DoD.  Then he just ignored us until we left the property and buildings behind. At least he didn’t sue us…

[71] Posted by B. Hunter on 12-10-2008 at 01:02 AM • top

Matt,
See #46 - Something you may wish to do on the 12th when they come.

[72] Posted by Fr. K on 12-10-2008 at 07:51 AM • top

Matt,
I grieve for the time and effort that you, your vestry, and congregation have spent on this seemingly wasteful exercise.  But I suspect that God has put this on your hearts for a reason.  And with the many ways of God, it is a reason that may never end up benefiting you or your congregation directly.  Excellent recap of the events and very instructive for those of us who have been following this for so long.
Blessed Advent and Merry Christmas to all!

[73] Posted by Capt. Father Warren on 12-10-2008 at 09:56 AM • top

Lord have mercy! As I said to both you and Ann+ last week in Wheaton, “you are a man of incredible character!”. While pained to read this as were so many of the above responders, I ache for all those still in TECorp and the current “leadership team”. So many in the pews are not privy to most of the facts. Spin is not a secular only concept. Being a people of faith and prayer, we are called to pray for those who hate or persecute us. I continue to prayer for all of us. I must admit though, in reading this set of correspondence, it is more and more of a challenge to pray for those who are so manipulative, deceitful and offensive.
Clearly, I am one of those who have left TEC for all the same reasons Good Shepherd has left. It seems so clear why we couldn’t stay and why we left.
As an observer last week in Wheaton, I am struck but the comparison of these two “meetings”. All around that large table were functioning as Christians as outlined in the Bible. Conversation was kind. Decisions were gracefilled and clear. Kindness was evident. The “agenda” was God’s, not man’s.
Matt+, you continue to be one of my heros. You and Anne+ are true gift. Poor Bp. Chane is out of his league.
Blessings,
AmmaKate+

[74] Posted by ammakate on 12-10-2008 at 02:45 PM • top

Oops, Adams not Chane as the “out of his league Bp”.

[75] Posted by ammakate on 12-10-2008 at 03:33 PM • top

Here’s another solution—schedule candlelight weddings, although a “Feast of Lights” on Ephiphany would work, too. Last month, we had such a wedding. An hour before the guests started to arrive, and without telling anyone in advance, the groom himself, aided by his father, began placing hundreds of votive lights on the window sills and ledges.  As the Altar Guild member in charge, I told him that what he was doing was against Fire Department regulations, and he said, “Don’t worry, we ARE the Fire Department. (And he and his groomsmen and a fair number of guests were, too.) As the evening descended and we waited for the the bride to finally appear, the effect was magical. However, we worried mightily until the ceremony was over.  A sleeve catching fire or a child’s hair—and we would have a conflagration.

Then it hit me. This could be the solution to all of our problems—there would be nothing for TEC to take, not even a single crayon. “Sorry, Bishop, but it was beyond our control—we had nothing to do with it.”  Except for the real possibility of casualties to wedding guests, it sounded plausable. Years ago, though, when we still kept the doors open during the day, quite a lot of damage was done by a mentally ill person who entered and set fire to the hangings. We were homeless for several months while the extensive damage was repaired.

[76] Posted by Sue Martinez on 12-10-2008 at 03:55 PM • top

BTW, am I correct in remebering that Matt and Ann live in a rectory owned by the parish?

[77] Posted by AndrewA on 12-10-2008 at 05:53 PM • top

Ol’Bob, 62, and Betty See, 65, two preliminaries then I’ll answer your question.  First, I didn’t dodge anything above.  mousestalker didn’t ask a question.  Second, I agree entirely with what I think someone else said:  you do not necessarily have to be a lawyer to comment (and to comment intelligently) on legal-related matters.  Now, the answer:  yes.

[78] Posted by DavidH on 12-10-2008 at 06:23 PM • top

yes AndrewA, we do.

[79] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 12-10-2008 at 06:27 PM • top

I just don’t like this talk about setting fires and C4.  Christians just don’t do this.  Now I have a few pagan friends who…..!

[80] Posted by PROPHET MICAIAH on 12-10-2008 at 06:55 PM • top

Nobody is seriously talking about Christians setting fires or using C4 (whatever that is.)  There are enough evil people and wackos out there to whom Christian symbols (like a cross on a steeple) are an offense that must be obliterated. St. Paul’s Cathedral, Boston, just had an arson fire. Then there’s Jos, Nigeria, where many Christian churches were burned and hundreds of Christians killed.

[81] Posted by Sue Martinez on 12-10-2008 at 07:21 PM • top

I have a question from the peanut gallery.  Was it ever attempted to get the standing committee and the canon and the bishop all together in the same room with the vestry for a meeting?  I know that is a mighty lot of schedules to coincide, but even a quorum from each group might have been able to head off the run-around impasse.  Was that ever suggested?  If so, what was the response? 

Thank you for posting all this.  It was long, but well worth it.  Very educational.

[82] Posted by Modest Mystic on 12-11-2008 at 12:22 PM • top

yes,

We wanted to meet with my wardens, me, the Standing Committee, and the Bishop. And were told that would be impossible.

WE were told we would not be allowed even to address the SC in any way even without the bishop and the ordinary

[83] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 12-11-2008 at 01:10 PM • top

Thesaurus of the Episcopal Church
Standing Committee:
1. Star Chamber
2. Great and Powerful OZ (“Nobody gets to see the Wizard!”)

[84] Posted by The Pilgrim on 12-11-2008 at 01:57 PM • top

How overwhelmingly sad…and how unsurprisingly typical.

[85] Posted by RevRL on 12-11-2008 at 07:59 PM • top

Wow, Matt. I am really sorry this continues. This is totally nasty. We had to leave our building behind because (I believe) Lee’s name was also on the deed—cagey thinking on his part. Not having a place of our own has done damage to our ability to reach out. It’s a shame because COL is a loving church family with a lot to offer.

I pray you and yours will prevail. Leaders such as Adams and Lewis disgust me. Their dissembling and disingenuousness make for queasy reading.

Blessings,
Pat Kashtock
Take It for What It’s Worth

[86] Posted by Pat Kashtock on 12-11-2008 at 09:39 PM • top

#9

I can’t get this thought out of my mind, “What kind of a bishop would even hesitate to meet face to face with one of his clerics or with members of his flock?”

Why a false one, of course! One who does not bear witness to Our Lord and His Word.

25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”  John 10:25-30 NKJ

DO NOT LOSE HEART!
<blockquote>7 “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. 9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.” Galatians 6:7-10 NKJ

[87] Posted by Gigs Girl on 12-15-2008 at 08:43 PM • top

#57

Wikipedia has provided us St. Ives reputed epitaph, which I did not know previously.

Wikipedia is not a reliable source of information and most universities do not permit its use for resource material.  (Simply an aside.)

[88] Posted by Gigs Girl on 12-15-2008 at 09:10 PM • top

Off subject:

Legally, lawyers act for, on behalf of, and with at least the general approval of their clients.  Clients are bound by what their lawyers say.

Is that not an oxymoron?

[89] Posted by Gigs Girl on 12-15-2008 at 09:15 PM • top

Came to this post just today…... found it disturbing since Karen Lewis was just appointed ‘interim priest in charge’  at Trinity in Geneva NY to oversee the movement forward of the church after the diocese ‘inhibited’ the previous Rector.  I think I understand her role much better now.  Control is everything and apparently the Diocese has more interest in the endowments and property of the church than the Christian faith it is supposed to represent.

[90] Posted by Lauriegrat on 02-12-2010 at 11:38 AM • top

Lauriegrat, this is happening all over the Episcopal Church.  “Supposed to represent” and “representing” are two entirely different things, but the problem is that Schori and Company either don’t know the difference, or they just plain don’t care.  Take your pick.

[91] Posted by Cennydd on 02-12-2010 at 11:44 AM • top

What a great post this was, Matt—kudos to you for laying it all out there in blazing glory for anyone to google names and find.

Heh—and people are.

It’s archived nicely in cyberspace.

[92] Posted by Sarah on 02-12-2010 at 12:12 PM • top

Sarah, you should not have said anything.
Tomorrow we will be reading about TEC suing cyberspace seeking an injunction against cyber-memory.

[93] Posted by tjmcmahon on 02-12-2010 at 12:47 PM • top

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