Fair Witness Questions Church Leaders’ Responses to Israel’s Attack On Hamas

Schori: “I join my voice to theirs and those of many others around the world, challenging the Israeli government to call a halt to this wholly disproportionate escalation of violence.”

Christians for Fair Witness: “We have to question church leaders who condemn Israel for a disproportionate response, while failing to set this action in the context of a long-term course of violent struggle to which Hamas has committed itself in defiance of Israel’s legitimacy as a nation.”

Excellent.

I will give more credence to the Presiding Bishop’s call for Israeli-Palestinian negotiations when I see negotiations between the leaders of General Convention and the leaders of other American Anglican groups.

Yeah, what with 815 blowing up orthodox churches, launching rockets at Good Shepherd, and calling for the annihilation of Ft. Worth, that makes perfect sense.

Hey Matthew Moore, please don’t make extravagant and inaccurate claims about TEC/815.  Their blatant violations of canon law, as well as stealing parish property from parishioners and the use of bludgeoning lawsuits where negotiation would suit better, are bad enough without adding falsehoods to their sinful behavior.

My comment is obviously a heavily ladened sarcastic statement regarding a comparison to 815 actions to a conflict between Israel and Palestine. Perhaps you should direct your chiding to those who make woefully inaccurate comparisons like this or to Nazis, or whatever.

The trials our church is going through in the scope of history (both ecclesiastical and secular both) is really quite small.  I don’t know what it is, but I’d rather some rogue Bishop take my building than be killed, bombed, scourged, burned, or have hooks dragged through my flesh.

Everyone keeps going on and on, wringing their hands about how horrible things are. Even if our buildings were taken away, we’re still pretty far ahead of many third world countries. Depositions of our bishops really don’t mean anything now, because they can move to an orthodox province. The fact that the leadership of a national church is practically apostate and is running roughshod over us sucks, most certainly, but to make it bigger than it is does major disservice to our faithful brothers and sisters before us who really struggled. Let’s praise God that this is all we have to go through.

If you want some European perspectives on the issue check out my blog http://stephensizer.blogspot.com

1. Israel is the aggressor in Gaza. Since November 2007 it has besieged Gaza denying access to food, medical supplies and electricity supplies.
2. Hamas is a liberation movement elected by democratic vote - a dangerous freedom to give people I know.
3. The use of weapons against civilians is immoral (by both sides)
4. In the last eight years 20 Israelis have died from Hamas fired rocket attacks. In the last eight days 400+ Palestinians have been killed by Israeli weapons - mostly made(and funded) by the USA.
5. Denying humanitarian aid and medical agencies from the UN entering Gaza to assist the wounded and dying is a collective punishment and deemed war crime in international law.
6. Peace will only come when Israel withdraws to internationally recognised borders and the legitimate aspirations of Palestinians to statehood is conceded as outlined by the US, EU, Russia and UN in the Road-map. Security for Israel and justice for Palestinians are not mutually exclusive but mutually interdependent. The best defence is a good neighbour.
7. Blessed indeed are the peacemakers.

RE: “My comment is obviously a heavily ladened sarcastic statement . . . “

Oh.  You were trying to be sarcastic.  Good deal.

RE: “Perhaps you should direct your chiding to those who make woefully inaccurate comparisons like this or to Nazis, or whatever.”

Sure—I didn’t see any of those on this thread.  Could you point them out to me?

RE: “The trials our church is going through in the scope of history (both ecclesiastical and secular both) is really quite small.  I don’t know what it is, but I’d rather some rogue Bishop take my building than be killed, bombed, scourged, burned, or have hooks dragged through my flesh.”

I wholeheartedly agree.  I’m not sure why you’re saying it—but I completely agree.

Since November 2007 it has besieged Gaza denying access to food, medical supplies and electricity supplies.

And they did this with no provocation, right? Sure. “Liberation movements” “elected by the people” came to power in Russia, China, Cambodia ... need I go on? Who is defining the terms, with what definitions?

Gaza also borders Egypt - so if supplies are needed, they don’t have to go through Israel.

You can get a very good idea of what life for Christians living under the rule of Hamas looks like here. http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=84518

Why aren’t food and medical supplies being sent through the border with Egypt? Does anyone know what is up with the border with Egypt?

Stephen
1.  Israel is not the aggressor.  The Arabs declared war on Israel, not the other way around.  In this most recent stage of the conflict, Hamas is the organization that constantly fired rockets on civilians areas.  They refuse to stop.
2.  Gaza had the choice between terrorists (Hamas) and crooks (Fatah).  What is it about the Arab mindset that the only alternatives are crooks or terrorists?  Being democratically elected is not a guarantee of moral government. 
3.  There is a moral difference between targeting civilians and targeting military equipment and personnel stored in civilian areas.  Hamas fires its rockets from within civilian population centers.  Firing and storing military equipment in the midst of population centers is a violation of the laws of war and ends international protections.  So, the civilian deaths suffered in Gaza are the direct result of Hamas firing from within civilian population centers and are the responsibility of Hamas, not Israel.
4.  For civilian casualties, see #3 above.  The vast majority of deaths in Gaza are people connected with Hamas.
5. Israel has withdrawn from the West Bank and Gaza.  They originally allowed people to come into Israel to work, but along with employees, terrorists were coming in and blowing up civilians.  So Israel closed the border.  The terrorists were using ambulances to bring in bombs and bomb making material.
6.  Peace will only come with the Palestinians learn to love life and their children more than they hate Israel.

YBIC,
Phil Snyder

Stephen, you say “Blessed indeed are the peacemakers.”
Please explain how one makes “peace” with those who believe you have no right to exist or live?  Seriously.

Mr. Sizer, Mr. Snyder has written an admirable response to your post.  My only addition is that your historic reference begining in only 2007 is sheer nonsense that no one can take seriously.

Here is a video proving that Hamas even stores rockets in mosques. You can see the secondary explosions from all the rockets as the mosque is bombed.

Just to throw another yule log on the fire, let’s not forget that the modern seeds of this situation were sown by the British government and it European allies when they carved up the Middle East as part of the outcome of WWI.

Remember, whenever Europeans criticize you for U.S. misdeeds, always answer by saying “You’re very welcome.”  When they ask you why you said that say “I figured you hadn’t got around yet to thanking us for the fact that you don’t have to speak German.”

#6, “European perspectives”

I think very little in “European perspectives” regarding Jews has changed.  It is today what it was over 60 years ago. Expendable scapegoats.

#3, I think that nobody has made a moral comparison between the church wars and the middle-east wars, so the sarcasm is unwarranted.  It seems that the point of #2 is that the PB has no track record or moral authority to weigh in on peace-making, reconciliation, or abuse of power, and so ought to refrain from trying.

#16 Daniel

About being grateful to the US that, thanks to you we don’t have to speak German in the UK. Well, yes, but the problem is we are all brought up on myths.

Talking to American friends the narrative of the Second World war I hear from them (and which you imply) is that things were going pretty badly for the effete Brits until Uncle Sam stepped in and once again saved the bacon of an ungrateful Europe.

But - the myth I was brought up on was that the Americans turned up late for both world wars. In its more extreme form the myth is that the USA was very content to stand back and watch Britain suffer, using up British resources, losing its people, breaking up its Empire (perhaps that was Roosevelt’s policy - to use the Germans as a way of destroying Britain’s remaining status as a rival). And America kept on with that right until they were caught unawares at Pearl Harbour, dragging them reluctantly into the conflict.

And the French, needless to say, have their own view of perfidious Albion and Britain’s desertion of them in 1940.

But I agree entirely about Gaza!

William S., it would be well to remember that the U.S. had not been attacked by Germany and that Roosevelt was getting war materiel to Britain as fast as possible well before the U.S. entered the war - so it wasn’t just British resources being used up. Truth is - Britain’s courage in facing the Nazi behemoth alone after the fall of France is worth our respect as are the many battlefield, etc., successes of British military personnel. Also worthy of respect and gratitude is the staunch endurance of the Soviet soldiers. It took *everybody*, y’all, so let’s don’t squabble about “who won the war.”

If Israel today stopped its attack, gave up the Golan Heights, added land to round out the edges of Palestine, recognized Palestine fully as a new state, opened its borders in Gaza and the West Bank, tore down the wall, and offered to pay reparations for anyone displaced in 48…

Hamas and Hezbollah would, tomorrow, continue its attack on Israelis.

I grieve for the children and innocent in Palistine. However, the leadership of Hamas and Hezbollah have demonstrated that they only grow more aggressive in the face of appeasement, while Iran, Syria and others are too invested in this proxy war to let it stop

offered to pay reparations for anyone displaced in 48

Has Israel offered to pay reparations? I have been wondering if some of the Arab states would accept the refugees into their countries if they came with capital to purchase land or start businesses etc.

#22, I believe the resettlement question has been addressed in the past, but no plan was ever put into action.

As to the reparations question, that is essentially a wash - an equal number, possibly a greater number of Jews were forced out/fled Arab countries for Israel at the same time; many of these Jews were from established Jewish communities that were in existence 500 years before the birth of Jesus.

Some people just won’t listen to Hamas.  They seem unable to grasp their intentions despite it being repeatedly expressed in clear language.  Take the late Sheikh Nizar Rayyan, prominent Hamas cleric blasted into an early grave this week.  He was an evil person, a disgrace to humanity, a beastly anti-Semite.  He declared firmly, to anyone who would listen, that Hamas wants to destroy Israel, that there could never be a Jewish state in the Middle East.  To Jeffrey Goldberg (2006) he said, “Israel is an impossibility.  It is an offense against God.”  He told Reuters (2007), “We will never recognize Israel. There is nothing called Israel, neither in reality nor in the imagination.”  How does one make peace with madmen like this?  I highly recommend this piece about him in today’s Haaretz, appropriately titled “A Special Place in Hell”.

As much as “the international community” hates the idea, the right thing for Israel to do to minimize the total amount of life lost (the “area under the curve” from current time to infinity) is to continue the current campaign until Hamas capitulates - or until there is no Hamas left to capitulate. Their choice.

Israel should stand fast and not let the simpering wimps in Europe (or in the US) cause them to stop short. Remember that “hudna” is Arabic for “a pause while we smuggle nastier weapons for the next phase”. Better that the Israelis finish this now; once Hamas gets rockets that can effectively kill hundreds or thousands of civilians Isreal’s only option will be tactical nukes!

#22, Most Arab nations don’t want the Palistinians, money or not, for political reasons.  They would prefer them to remain in the West Bank and Gaza, than complicating things for them internally. Syria and Egypt do their best to keep them at bay. Jordan, one of the best actors in the area, went to war with the Palenstians in 1971 and expelled the majority of them, along with the PLO leadership.  This began a push by Palestinians into Lebanon, which, with Syria’s help, transformed that nation from an properous tourist destination with a strong Christian influence to a violent, Islamic dominated nation.

Arafat could have had peace by simply signing a document. He didn’t want it, because his political base was established on the premise of war.  The same applies to Hamas.

While I support Israel, President-elect Obama’s reported plan to bring Israel under the US nuclear umbrella is a mistake, because it could mislead Israel into thinking that it can rely on other nations for its security. Truth is, the US is unlikely to launch nuclear weapons in the event of an attack on Israel by its neighbors. For Israel to survive in the face of those that seek to eliminate its citizens, it must deprive its enemies of the ability to destroy it by striking first.  The Gaza effort may very well be an effort to eliminate a potential base of counterattack in the event of an attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities. When and if that happens, all Hell may break loose.

Hi GSP98,
I think it is a mistake to treat the reparations question as a wash. I think it is a mistake to treat the unique individual people displaced in the formation of Israel as unindividuated members of the category Arabs as you imply in this statement:

As to the reparations question, that is essentially a wash - an equal number, possibly a greater number of Jews were forced out/fled Arab countries for Israel at the same time; many of these Jews were from established Jewish communities that were in existence 500 years before the birth of Jesus.

Actual individuals were displaced from their land and have no where to go and no resources. If Israel treated them as deserving reparations, treated them fairly, Israel would gain tremendously in general public opinion, even if not in the opinion in the Arab world.

Most were not displaced by Israel as much as they were displaced by the war which was brought against the nascent Jewish state by her Arab neighbors.
Quite unlike the Jewish citizens [third class citizens under Islamic rule, but citizens of immensely long standing nonetheless], the Arabs who lived in Israel could have remained as citizens of the new Jewish state, but were urged to (and many, though not all, opted to) flee until, they were told, hostilities were over and they could not only have their own land back, but that of the Jews as well. Of course, as Ahab once said: “Let not him who straps on his armor boast himself as he who takes it off.”

As to your statement: “I think it is a mistake to treat the reparations question as a wash. I think it is a mistake to treat the unique individual people displaced in the formation of Israel as unindividuated members of the category Arabs as you imply in this statement” :

As to the reparations question, that is essentially a wash - an equal number, possibly a greater number of Jews were forced out/fled Arab countries for Israel at the same time; many of these Jews were from established Jewish communities that were in existence 500 years before the birth of Jesus.
Actual individuals were displaced from their land and have no where to go and no resources.”

They are no more or less “uninduviduated” or “displaced” then were Jews which were expelled from Arab countries, their resources taken from them. You see, this is the difference: the Arab nations, with vast areas of empty land and in many cases, enormous oil revenues, were - and have been - content to allow their Arab brethren to exist as refugees, content to treat them as a mere political pawn in a larger game of jihad. The Jewish refugees on the other hand, were welcomed into Israel with outstretched arms by their Jewish brethren and immediately integrated into the life of the small Jewish nation. That is why there has never been a Jewish refugee problem.

#18 - They’re totally two different situations.  It would make sense to make the comparison if, say, KJS was offering to help the UMC in church property disputes. If she’s unable to try to work for peace in warring countries because she’s a cannonical nightmare, then we should fire all fat and/or smoking nurses and doctors, because obviously their personal health track record isn’t that great.

#28 Well if something was taken from me, and the people who took it argued someone else of my ethnic background had taken something from someone else of their ethnic background, I would think the people who stole from me were still thieves.

To be more specific, if a black man mugs me and says that his ancestors were unfairly made slaves by white people, so he has a right to steal from me and I should ask white people to reimburse me for what he stole, I am hardly going to think it is fair. And if that black person then goes on to point out that if he was stolen from, black people would take care of him and why didn’t white people take care of me, it would just make me feel more angry.

Please note I am sympathetic to Israel and pointed out the bombs in the mosque video early on this thread.

1928 PB Loyalist - would it be satifactory for Isreal to pay $x million dollars to the displaced Palestinians (it would be distributed through the Palestinian Govt) and Palestine would pay the same amount to the displaced Jews (it would be distributed through the Isreal Govt)?  Seems like although real individuals are involved, it really is a wash.  Or do you think only Isreal should pay?  I’m not sure of the numbers, but the US and Europe have sent significant amounts of money to Palestine and Isreal.  How much is enough?

If I was robbed by a Hispanic man and the police said it was “a wash” because a woman of my ethnicity robbed a Hispanic man in another town, I would be so angry.

I am thinking that any claims that individual Palestinians have against the Israeli government are completely separate from any claims individual Jews now living in Israel have against the various Arab and/or Muslim governments. I think that the individual claims for individual plots of land should be handled as individual cases.

I have seen news articles over the years about individual Jews claiming their land or art work or whatever that was taken by Nazis from themselves or their relatives.

Is there some reason you are thinking Palestinians are not unique individuals with claims to unique plots of land? Here where I live in the USA, I know a Palestinian man that treasures the key that was to the door of the particular house that his family had. And here as well, I know another Palestinian man that has in his house a framed photograph of the doors to the houses of his parents street.

I am not a supporter of Hamas. I am pro Israel. But I do notice this issue.

To say it is “a wash” because of various other injustices that have been perpetrated by other Arab governments against Jews is not convincing.

The two Palestinian men I referred to above are both Christians. I don’t know but I assumed they were both naturalized US citizens. In each case, the parents were Palestinian. One of the men was actually born in Jordon, I think. The other was born in Lebanon, I think. Not sure. One is a professor here and the other has a wife who is a professor here.

In a perfect world, every person - Jew, Arab or any one else - who had a legitimate claim to land that was once theirs would have their day in court, and, if that claim was true, would have that land returned to them.

This much I can tell you - if the Islamic Arab governments of the world had just permitted the tiny fraction of what was then called Palestine (“Philistine”) - the majority of Palestine, by the way, was ceded to be Arab territory - there would be no people such as the ones you met holding onto keys. The Jews in what was called Jewish Palestine did not force the Arabs off their land; in fact, while many fled, the Jews at that time were urging the Arabs within their territories not to leave, unlike the invading forces of Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Lebanon did, screaming “Jihad!!” all the way. In fact, if not for Islamic Jewish blood-lust, you would have a ‘Palestine’ which would be mostly Arab territory to this very day!
Would it be more palatable if the invading Islamic armies had succeeded in their quest to kill every Jew in Palestine and take every bit of land to themselves? I’m sure the response of the world at large to Jewish suffering would have been deafening, as always. “Poor Jews. What a shame! They just cant catch a break, can they? Oh, well…whats for dinner?”

PB 1928, I’m guessing that your heart is in the right place, so I say this with all charity; please study more about the events that led up to and became what can only be regarded as a miracle, the regathering of the Jewish people to their own homeland after close to two millennia of dispersion and wandering, coming out of a nearly successful attempt to wipe them permanently off the face of the earth, and establishing a prosperous, productive, democratic nation in spite of repeated wars and attacks by Jihadists to snuff her out.

GSP98,

I don’t think there is anything wrong with civilians fleeing a war zone. I don’t think it means they permanently forfeit their property.

I understand why Israel doesn’t want to let the Palestinians back. But it makes sense to me that the Palestinians should be offered fair financial compensation for the property that was confiscated.

Nothing I have said on this topic should be interpreted to mean I am defending Hamas. I think Hamas is terrible and I fully support the Israeli efforts to destroy Hamas weaponry and facilities and kill the leadership of Hamas. And I hold Hamas responsible for the Palestinians civilians inadvertently killed by the Israelis.

That said, I am thinking Israel may need to make the effort to provide fair financial compensation to Palestinians for their family property that was confiscated.

The only thing that I can say at this point - and it is a reality you refuse to recognize -is that there can be no talk of Arab restitution without addressing at he same time compensation from Arab governments for what was truly confiscated from the Jews inhabiting their countries.
And yes, I DO link these two together because the act of war perpetrated by the Arab nations against Israel, and their failure to achieve their goals directly caused the confiscation of Jewish property and funds of Jews living in Islamic Arab countries. The two matters are inexorably linked; address both, or address neither.

To the best of my recollection, Palestinian refugees have been offered compensation by the Israelis in the past.  Offers have been refused.  In the early years, the Arabs surrounding the area were certain that in the next round of military action the Jews would be defeated.  Muslim and Christian refugees have been used as pawns throughout.  This accelerated in the Arafat years and since.  Arafat was a thug who cared not at all for the actual sufferings of the people whose leadership he claimed.

Egypt and Jordan, at this point, emphatically do not want these people in their countries.  They are now viewed, rightly, as Islamist extremists whose effect on Egypt or Jordan would be malign.  Egypt will intermittently allow humanitarian supplies through the border into Gaza, and will allow Muslim pilgrims to transit through, under strict watch and control.  Israel regularly sends humanitarian supplies and has done so even during the current crisis on several occasions, reports indicate.

The Egyptian government has said publicly just this past week that Hamas has brought this on itself.

What should have happened decades ago is that these refugees should have been assisted financially with new homes in surrounding Arab states and given new identity cards in their new countries.  They had no country before.  Logically, they should be Jordanians living in Jordan, since these are the same peoples.  Ethnically German refugees kicked out of eastern Europe following WWII have been resettled in German areas and are no longer a political issue, along with so many other WWII refugees.  What’s special about the case of these refugees, other than the intransigence of their leadership?

Let me add two important points to reiterate my earlier posting:

FIRST: A word about tahdi’a (the period of calm or truce). It is important to note that among the terms of tahdi’a was the understanding that Israel would lift the siege of the Gaza Strip, and gradually extend the truce to the West Bank. This Israel did not do. It only partially lifted the siege and allowed a trickle of vital commodities into Gaza which kept the people at the level of mere survival. Israel’s raids into the West Bank continued on a daily basis and scores of Palestinians were arrested or assassinated.The International Herald Tribune reported on December 19, 2008 that it was Hamas’ understanding that after the tahdi’a Israel would open the crossings and allow the transfer of goods that have been banned since the siege was imposed. There was never a return to the 500 – 600 truckloads of goods shipments that used to go into the Gaza Strip before the siege. “The number of trucks increased to around 90 from around 70.” The facts and figures tell the real story. Sadly, however, many western leaders have shut their ears, eyes, and mouths against the cry of the oppressed and they fell into the deceptive snares of Israel. Most of the world judges Israel by what it says and not by what it does; while they close their ears to the comprehensive and workable 2002 Peace Initiative adopted by all the Arab leaders including the Palestinians. Even Hamas has agreed to a Palestinian State within the 1967 borders as expressed to President Carter on his latest visit to Syria.

SECOND: So long as Israel holds the Palestinians in general and the Gazans in particular under military occupation, (and total seige - controlling the sea, land and air space) they (the Palestinians) have the right, according to international law, to resist the “seemingly never ending” belligerent occupation and struggle for their liberation. Israel, therefore, cannot demand from the international community sympathy and political support and from the Palestinians calm and security, while it maintains its inhuman and illegal occupation. It is only when Israel ends its occupation that it can have a legitimate right to defend its borders. Israel stands in violation of international law and is the aggressor due to its belligerent occupation.

StephenSizer, who cares what Hamas “understood” about the “tahdi’a”.  This was not a formally negotiated ceasefire (hudna) with actual terms.  Perhaps it could have been if Hamas was willing to actually negotiate with Israel, but their pathological hatred of Jews and refusal to acknowledge the existence of a Jewish state prevents that from happening.  Since this “truce” was brokered through a third party (Egypt) and nothing was in writing Hamas’ deliberate “misunderstanding” of the “terms” is inevitable.  However, contemporary accounts report that the first stage of the truce “envisages a partial reopening of Gaza’s borders”, not a complete and unhindered reopening of borders.  That was it.  That was all that was agreed upon.  Nothing more.  The West Bank was not part of this deal at all and contemporary accounts of the June 2008 truce indicate that Hamas was well aware of that fact.  Any future developments or “stages” in the deal were to be negotiated during the “tahdi’a” and it was well known that in exchange for any major reopening of crossings Israel would insist on the release of Gilad Shalit.  Israeli actions in the West Bank were NOT a violation of the tahdi’a.  However when Hamas commenced daily rocket fire into Israel on November 4, that was definitely a violation.  Hamas was simply done with the tahdi’a, it had accomplished its goals.  And we all know what Hamas wants from such ceasefires, lets listen to the late Dr. Nizar Rayyan on a hudna, “The only reason to have a hudna is to prepare yourself for the final battle.”  Hamas crying and whining about Israeli violations is a joke and factually incorrect.  As for the Carter trip to Syria which resulted in Carter’s claim that Hamas had agreed to a Palestinian state with 1967 borders- so what?  As this CNN story titled “Hamas: No plan to recognize Israel” it means nothing.  Yes, they’ll take the Palestinian state, but won’t recognize Israel.  They will simply use the state as a staging ground for all out war to recapture the rest of Palestine, which is their oft restated goal.

I am amazed that you believe that indiscriminately firing rockets and missiles in Israeli cities and towns with the intent to spread destruction, death and terror among civilians somehow constitutes “resistance”.

Rocket fire did not stop during the tahdi’a.  It merely decreased.  Had it stopped, further steps in opening Gaza would have occurred.  And why, after the complete withdrawal of Israelis from Gaza, some of whom were dragged out by their compatriots, did the rocket fire continue?

StephenSizer,

Your claim is obviously false that “Israel holds the Palestinians in general and the Gazans in particular under military occupation, (and total seige - controlling the sea, land and air space”. The Gaza strip has a border with Egypt. Egypt is clearly controlling its border and making choices about who to allow to come into Egypt from the Gaza strip and what supplies to go into Gaza from Egypt.

I did read in this morning’s New York Times that Egypt doesn’t want the violent radicalized Palestinians from Gaza to come into Egypt with their car bomb mentality,  etc, turning Egypt into another Iraq.

But why aren’t international relief agencies using the Egyptian border to move humanitarian supplies into Gaza?

StephenSizer,

You are misrepresenting the facts, and you are making circular arguments.

Israel is the aggressor in Gaza? I actually doubt whether a stupider statement could be made.

To begin with, it is irrelevant whether Hamas was democratically elected or not. The fact is that they are a terrorist organization, funded by the Syrians, and with the stated goal of eliminating the state of Israel. The fact that they are in power “legitimately” does nothing to change the nature of their actions, which are terroristic by even the most accommodating of definitions. To call them a “liberation movement” instead of a “terrorist organization” is to display either a stupefying ignorance of the facts, or a sickening attempt to portray evil as good.

Hamas fired over 3,000 missiles into Israel in 2008 alone, a period during which they had agreed to an Egyptian-brokered truce. See this document (PDF) for details on the number of mortar and rocket attacks.

The use of weapons against civilians is immoral (by both sides)

That is true, of course, but what’s your point? Israel targets only military and terrorist targets. It does not target civilians. Do Israeli attacks kill civilians? Sometimes, yes. Why? Because Hamas hides among civilians, putting their rocket and mortar launchers in civilian neighborhoods, mosques, etc.

You write:

In the last eight years 20 Israelis have died from Hamas fired rocket attacks. In the last eight days 400+ Palestinians have been killed by Israeli weapons - mostly made(and funded) by the USA.

Good - it’s reassuring to know American-made weapons are killing Hamas terrorists. But when you say that 400+ “Palestinians” have been killed, you’re leaving out the fact that almost all of them are Palestinian militants. They’re not just innocent civilians strolling along the sidewalks, minding their own business. Of the very, very few who are not engaged directly in militant action, it can safely be assumed that most voted for Hamas. With very few exceptions, the Palestinians being killed by Israeli actions are getting what they deserve, or what they voted for, which is war and death.

Denying humanitarian aid and medical agencies from the UN entering Gaza to assist the wounded and dying is a collective punishment and deemed war crime in international law.

I assume you’re referring here to Cynthia McKinney’s farcical “mission” last week. Please… spare us.

Peace will only come when Israel withdraws to internationally recognised borders and the legitimate aspirations of Palestinians to statehood is conceded as outlined by the US, EU, Russia and UN in the Road-map.

Israel acquired Gaza and more (the Golan Heights, the West Bank, and the Sinai) in the 6-day war of 1967, and could have legitimately held onto them up to the present moment if it wished. It has traded land for peace and withdrawn, for the most part, to its pre-1967 borders. It did not have to do this.

In contrast, check out the Hamas flag, and note what little penant flies atop the Dome of the Rock: It’s the state of Israel… in its pre-1967 state, which Hamas claims constitutes “Palestine.”

I am tired of hearing how the Palestinians are victims. The plain truth, if you really want to talk about peacemakers, is that if Hamas laid down its arms right this second, there would be peace in Gaza, and no more “Palestinians” would be killed. But if Israel laid down its arms right this second, Hamas would kill every Israeli man, woman and child it could.

My suggestion to you is either to get your facts straight, or go and be a useful idiot somewhere else.

What Greg said.

At any rate, Israel is finally invading Gaza and will, if all goes well, destroy Hamas completely, or at least its ability to terrorize Israeli citizens. Hot Air is collecting most of the relevant links.

Thanks for that PDF Greg.  It shows that Hamas almost ceased firing mortars and rockets during much of the “truce” period, but as Katherine pointed out they continually violated the truce.  And a month before the truce ended they resumed an intolerable barrage.  But some people are so attached to the Palestinian cause that the truth and facts can be completely ignored.  This blindness also causes a complete loss of moral sensibilities.  For instance, I was watching an Israeli news broadcast of a anti-Israel protest in Tel Aviv and one female protester said in reference to this rocket fire, and this is an exact quote- “It’s just Kassams.  Who dies from a Kassam?  Until now only two or three people.  It’s not so bad.”

Alli B writes:
Please explain how one makes “peace” with those who believe you have no right to exist or live? Seriously.

This question could be addressed to either side in this conflict. The Israelis are continuing their war of conquest against the Palestinians by stealing their land - their means of economic survival - for the building of settlements and the “security” wall. These so-called Jews don’t seem to understand the commandment, “Thou shalt not steal.”

The population of the Palestinian city of Bethlehem used to be 90% Christian. Thanks to the building of settlements, the Christians have lost most of their land in the territory surrounding the city. Thanks to the building of the wall, they can no longer travel to their jobs in Jerusalem. The well educated and formerly wealthy (by local standards) Palestinian Christian population is being forced into poverty. The Christian share of the population of Bethlehem has now shrunk to about 50% - and it continues to decline.

Why is is that American Protestants always avert their eyes to the crimes of the secular Jews of Israel against their Palestinian victims, who are disproportionately Christian?

I have linked to and quoted your post from Jeremiah Films’ Sderot Watch ... I am glad they made that statement.