Total visitors right now: 161

Logged-in members:

BillB
cityonahill
via orthodoxy

Click here to check your private inbox.

Welcome to Stand Firm!

Episcopal Priest Causes Stir On Oprah By Proclaiming Homosexuality Is A Gift From God

Thursday, January 22, 2009 • 6:14 pm


Oprah must not get out much

The Episcopal priest has repeatedly proclaimed a message of inclusiveness. In a controversial move last year, Bacon opened his church to perform marriage ceremonies for same-sex couples a week after the California Supreme Court had legalized homosexual marriage in May.

After stirring more controversy on Winfrey’s show this month, Bacon has been flooded with calls and emails, some with positive words and some with critical remarks.

Labeling himself as “biblically oriented,” Bacon claimed he’s going down the road of Jesus, showing compassion and being inclusive, and not the road of condemnation and judgment.

Warren Throckmorton, associate professor of Psychology and director of the College Counseling Service at Grove City College in Pennsylvania, doesn’t believe Bacon’s comments help in the ongoing debate over the Bible and homosexuality.

“Traditional Christianity teaches that all people are valued by God as bearers of His image,” he commented to The Christian Post. “However, moral questions surrounding sexual behavior are matters of great dispute among Christians. Rev. Bacon is less than helpful when he condemns those who disagree with him.”


61 Comments • Print-friendlyPrint-friendly w/commentsShare on Facebook
Comments:

When did Kevin Bacon become a priest?  He’s a celeb. he should be close to being a bishop!

[1] Posted by goonole on 01-22-2009 at 07:11 PM • top

Don’t listen to him, he’s a dud, a faux shepherd operating in the mind of flesh, which is at enmity with God and His Word. 

Hear the voice of a real shepherd and priest:
http://binghamtongoodshepherd.blogspot.com/2009/01/thursday-notes_22.html

[2] Posted by Theodora on 01-22-2009 at 07:18 PM • top

All Saints All Stars Rev. Bacon and Rev “Eggs” Russell must have a VERY thin Bible.
Intercessor

[3] Posted by Intercessor on 01-22-2009 at 07:18 PM • top

Before becoming rector at All Saints in Pasadena Ed Bacon was dean of the cathedral in Mississippi.

[4] Posted by Piedmont on 01-22-2009 at 07:43 PM • top

That would be Saint Andrews in Jackson.

[5] Posted by Piedmont on 01-22-2009 at 07:43 PM • top

10-4.

[6] Posted by Pounding Sand on 01-22-2009 at 07:47 PM • top

And the Divine Ms O must have just thought he was fabulous!

[7] Posted by Nikolaus on 01-22-2009 at 08:01 PM • top

What, exactly, is so newsworthy about this? Episcopal priests (not to mention, bishops) have been saying this for years.

[8] Posted by Jagged Edge on 01-22-2009 at 08:07 PM • top

O boy.
Another minister of damnation. Jude’s had some choice words for these liars:

“Woe to them! For they walked in the way of Cain and abandoned themselves for the sake of gain to Balaam’s error and perished in Korah’s rebellion. These are hidden reefs at your love feasts, as they feast with you without fear, shepherds feeding themselves; waterless clouds, swept along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted; wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.”

[9] Posted by gatogordo on 01-22-2009 at 08:14 PM • top

What no witty drive-by remarks from Susan Russell yet?!

Of course we all know that woman’s ordination doesn’t lead to actively gay clergy either.  Just ask VGR.

[10] Posted by Bill2 on 01-22-2009 at 08:18 PM • top

Labeling himself as “biblically oriented,” Bacon claimed he’s going down the road of Jesus, showing compassion and being inclusive, and not the road of condemnation and judgment.

Yes - he is going down a road. I’ll at least give him that.

[11] Posted by Derek Smith on 01-22-2009 at 09:41 PM • top

Biblically oriented? So was Satan - and he got the context wrong too.

[12] Posted by Festivus on 01-22-2009 at 09:48 PM • top

Going down the road, is he?  Good!  So long, Fr Bacon!

[13] Posted by Cennydd on 01-22-2009 at 10:04 PM • top

Good Grief! Another false teacher out running a muck!

[14] Posted by TLDillon on 01-22-2009 at 10:34 PM • top

dog bites man

[15] Posted by RoyIII on 01-22-2009 at 10:48 PM • top

Homosexuality is not a “gift from God”.  It’s a perversion of a gift from God (heterosexual sex inside the bounds of marriage) by Satan.  DUH…  wink 

I wonder how Fr. Bacon’s daily prayer and scripture reading life is, hmmmmmm???

[16] Posted by B. Hunter on 01-23-2009 at 07:18 AM • top

Of course it is a gift from God.  All challenges are a gift from God.  If you receive this gift and continue to obey God’s word, you will have the joy of putting aside your natural instincts in order to follow Jesus.  I am sure it is difficult but I’m betting many more folks than we will ever know make this choice for the Lord.  Bless them all.  We can all learn from them.

[17] Posted by GoodMissMurphy on 01-23-2009 at 08:04 AM • top

I never watch Oprah, and so in this case don’t know what was said or whether he was challenged.  The significance of this isn’t what Bacon said, because we’ve come to expect it of too many priests, bishops, and lay leaders; it’s old news in a sense.  Rather, the significance is that he said it on Oprah, which for better or worse has a huge following and is a widely influential “thought leader”.  What she says and promotes unfortunately carries disproprtionate weight.  (How else to explain Dr. Phil?)

[18] Posted by Connecticutian on 01-23-2009 at 09:10 AM • top

“In his article, ‘An Issue that will not go away’, Bishop Hugh Montefiore asks regarding homosexuals, ‘Why cannot we accept that this is how God made them?’  There are logical, psychological and sociological problems with the position implied in this question; we are concerned here only with the theological problem.  For Montefiore’s question assumes that one may legitimately make deductions about the will of God from the way things are; that if this is the way things are, then this is the way God intends them to be.  Yet that would imply that God always gets his way, and the very occurrence of sin should alert us to the fact that there are important senses in which this is not the case.  If, as I have already argued, there has been an hiatus on the path from creation to present reality, then that would render illegitimate all attempts to argue back from the status quo to the creational intentions of God as if no such deviation from those intentions had taken place.  Such reading back from the way things are to
the will of God, which is rightly rejected in the pastoral context, should not be accepted in the ethical context either.” (p. 76)

From the chapter entitled “The Humanity of Fallenness” by the Rev. Dr. Michael Lloyd in the important book *Grace and Truth in the Secular Age* ed. by Timothy Bradshaw.

[19] Posted by Bill+ on 01-23-2009 at 09:59 AM • top

these people ..the people who host them, and the people who watch/listen to them, are the people shaping our society today…...what a shame….garbage in garbage out

[20] Posted by ewart-touzot on 01-23-2009 at 10:08 AM • top

Can you imagine what Bacon would say on the Jerry Springer and Maury Povitch shows?

[21] Posted by hellcat on 01-23-2009 at 11:44 AM • top

#18, I’m not so sure that Bp Montefiore is not correct in that “this is the way God made them”. And that’s sad, because He also makes an occasional two-headed calf or three-headed snake. But that’s not the point. The point is that as Christians, we have so behavioral choices to make: and homosexual activity is not among the behaviors which a Christian may choose.
desertpadre

[22] Posted by desertpadre on 01-23-2009 at 11:58 AM • top

I really do hope Ms. Russell is not ill or indisposed in some way. It isn’t at all like her not to drop in for a quick ‘drive by’ snarl. Maybe some cat has her tongue.

[23] Posted by Dilbertnomore on 01-23-2009 at 12:18 PM • top

You know….with open TV exposure like this Mr. Bacon got on National TV and the fact taht h is representing TEc when he and VGR continue to go out and make proclamations like this…....it cannot actually be helping TEc in bringing in families to the church. I cannot see many families saying, “Now that’s a church I want my family to belong to!” Maybe a “family” that was designed by two gay people pretending to be married and living as a family that actually does it the way it was designed by God to be done….you know…make your own babies/family, not go out and have some unknown sperm donor’s seed planted in to another persons body because you have had all your reproductive organs removed for a sex change operation…... This whole gay thing is just really sick….

[24] Posted by TLDillon on 01-23-2009 at 12:33 PM • top

If Oprah Winfrey were to be fair about Bacon’s appearance on her show, she’d invite someone like Bishop Iker or Bishop Duncan to appear and offer counter-testimony.  There are two sides to every controversy, and I think it’s high time for US to be seen and heard on television and the radio!

[25] Posted by Cennydd on 01-23-2009 at 01:11 PM • top

And I’m not talking just about local radio and television coverage!

[26] Posted by Cennydd on 01-23-2009 at 01:12 PM • top

Now, now, While I disagree with Ed+ on this issue, he is a very fine and loving Christian man…

[27] Posted by FrVan on 01-23-2009 at 01:12 PM • top

Thank you to all of the people who have read post #23 by Dilbertnomore, and have failed to add your $.02.

(I know for some of us, this is harder than for others.)

(As for myself, I believe I just earned an extra star or two in my crown for not posting my own bon mots in response.)

[29] Posted by heart on 01-23-2009 at 02:10 PM • top

#27 Fr. Van
Rev. Ed “Smokehouse” Bacon is a deceiver extraordinaire of souls under his care. Being careful quick and kind does not excuse his immorallity.
Intercessor

[30] Posted by Intercessor on 01-23-2009 at 02:21 PM • top

St James posts “INFORMATIVE LINKS To Responsible Sources”

Not that responsible, really - more like biased.  The man in charge of the committee that decided to to “de-list” homosexual orientation as a psychological disorder in the DSM of the APA back in the 1970’s was himself a partnered “gay.”  He made up his mind, and then found the data he wanted - not to mention the pressure put on the APA convention by those with same-sex attraction, demanding to have the condition de-listed or else they would picket and shout.

[31] Posted by AnglicanXn on 01-23-2009 at 02:22 PM • top

Also…Video Games and Oprah Porn are not allowed in my family’s house. Sorry that it is in others.
Intercessor

[32] Posted by Intercessor on 01-23-2009 at 02:23 PM • top

If that’s a gift from God, Bacon has a very low esteem of the Almighty. I would hate to see his idea of a Christmas gift list.
Remember folks, this is a television show that has also featured and lauded more than one false author. Bacon is a perfect match for Oprah.

[33] Posted by Laytone on 01-23-2009 at 03:45 PM • top

Who is Oprah?

[34] Posted by rreed on 01-23-2009 at 03:59 PM • top

Condemnation and judgement are the Biblical teaching on homosexual behavior.  Well, duh!
Dumb Sheep.

[35] Posted by dumb sheep on 01-23-2009 at 04:58 PM • top

IN response to AnglicanXn (No.31) - The change that brought about dropping homosexuality from the manual of psychiatric disorders indeed may have been promoted by a gay man. However being either straight or gay does not make one either right or wrong. There are no doubt many gay psychiatrists, as well as gay authors, firemen, musicians, priests, soldiers, mechanics, statesmen, lawyers & judges, policemen, politicians, postmen, truck drivers, skiers, parachutists, chefs, swimmers, tennis players, footballers, scientists, etc., etc., etc.
In fact, being gay does not disqualify anyone from being whatever he or she chooses to be. If the change in the manual of psychiatric didorders had not come about when it did, it would have been removed within a few months or years.  Homosexuality is not a disorder, and the educated Western World is (slowly) recognising the fact. 

Stand Firm commenters should refrain from taking cheap shots at people or causes they do not really understand, and have made to effort to understand. Do not rely on television or other entertainment or mass-media sources or sources solely from the ultraconservative world to form opinions - do some reading and Googling on such topics as Sexual orientation, sexual discrimination, and other topics that you can link to from the sources I listed.

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/policy/discrimination.html

http://gay-religion.blogspot.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_LGBT_people

http://www.idahomophobia.org/article.php3?id_article=251

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraqi-police-killed-14yearold-boy-for-being-homosexual-476917.html


http://www.independent.co.uk/search/index.jsp?ecePage=1&eceExpr=Gay&eceSort=descending&eceField=all&eceMode=search&eceForm=simple&dateRange=all

[36] Posted by St. James on 01-23-2009 at 05:26 PM • top

“However, moral questions surrounding sexual behavior are matters of great dispute among Christians. Rev. Bacon is less than helpful when he condemns those who disagree with him.”

He may condemn those who disagree with him because the arguments in favor of his position are so weak from a biblical and a rhetorical point of view.

[37] Posted by Edwin on 01-23-2009 at 05:37 PM • top

“Homosexuality is not a disorder, and the educated Western World is (slowly) recognising the fact.”

I would argue that it is a consequence of the fall, just like all of our brokeness in every area of our lives which I am sure you (St. James) would disagree.  What really scares me about you though is that you are putting your faith in “educated Western World” which I am convinced will be looked on by historians as a culture completely in the dark.  I believe our time will make the “dark ages” look quite sunny when we are judged by our great grandchildren.  That is if we have not aborted them all, chosen not to have them because of our sexual choices, or become infertile through std’s stemming from all the heterosexual fornication and adultery.   
Maybe the ammish have it right.

[38] Posted by rreed on 01-23-2009 at 05:53 PM • top

St. J. -

You have accurately and correctly posited the secular argument for equal rights for GLBTQWOEUROSIDJFLKDJKLJKLSJDJLKSEUIOJFLSKDJFIOJOSDLJFOSIDJFOS people. This blog deals with what God has to say. I am unable to find after prolonged and diligent search any verse in the Bible - which is the only document that matters here - any instance, when taken in context, in which God in His Word recommends or even tolerates the acts described as characteristic of the GLBTQWOEUROSIDJFLKDJKLJKLSJDJLKSEUIOJFLSKDJFIOJOSDLJFOSIDJFOS lifestyle(s). If you can cite a contextual scriptural references or even a single contextual scriptural reference that states that the GLBTQWOEUROSIDJFLKDJKLJKLSJDJLKSEUIOJFLSKDJFIOJOSDLJFOSIDJFOS lifestyle(s) are just fine with God, I’d be very interested in seeing it. Otherwise, I’m forced to regard your long comment as just so much typical GLBTQWOEUROSIDJFLKDJKLJKLSJDJLKSEUIOJFLSKDJFIOJOSDLJFOSIDJFOS blather.

And before you flop out that old chestnut that ‘since God created humanity and some are of the GLBTQWOEUROSIDJFLKDJKLJKLSJDJLKSEUIOJFLSKDJFIOJOSDLJFOSIDJFOS persuasion God must have blessed and approved of his work and therefore God is cool with the acts folks of the GLBTQWOEUROSIDJFLKDJKLJKLSJDJLKSEUIOJFLSKDJFIOJOSDLJFOSIDJFOS inclination celebrate to define themselves.’ God also made note of the fact that sin entered the world God created with Adam. That wasn’t God’s idea and He wasn’t and isn’t cool with it. All of us - you, me and every ‘born again’ person on God’s Earth are misserable sinners. The difference between those of us who know we are sinners and those of the GLBTQWOEUROSIDJFLKDJKLJKLSJDJLKSEUIOJFLSKDJFIOJOSDLJFOSIDJFOS persuasion is that we regret, repent and seek forgiveness of our sin. Those of the GLBTQWOEUROSIDJFLKDJKLJKLSJDJLKSEUIOJFLSKDJFIOJOSDLJFOSIDJFOS persuasion celebrate their sinful behavior. And in their celebration they mock God.

And my comment has nothing to do about ‘homophobia,’ so don’t go there, either. God commands us to hate sin. God also commands us to love sinners and encourage them to restore their broken relationship with Him. I am a sinner and I need all the help God can give me and I seek it daily and imperfectly. I do not celebrate my sin - I hate it. I am comforted that God and my fellow Christians love me anyway and pray for my healing. I, too, pray for the healing of those who are afflicted by the sin of GLBTQWOEUROSIDJFLKDJKLJKLSJDJLKSEUIOJFLSKDJFIOJOSDLJFOSIDJFOS behavior.

[39] Posted by Dilbertnomore on 01-23-2009 at 06:05 PM • top

Pulled the lanyard just a touch too soon.

Obviously, sin entered the world after God created Adam. And sin is not a part of God’s Creation.

Just to be a little clearer.

[40] Posted by Dilbertnomore on 01-23-2009 at 06:08 PM • top

Dilbertnomore, Nr.39 & 40:

Homosexuality is no more a sin than heterosexuality. Both are sexual orentations, psychological attributes that exist in every person, innate, unchosen, and (as far as is known) not susceptible to change -  in themselves unconnected to morality. IIt was difficult to read what you were actually saying due to the long streams of letters. If you wish to engage in civil discourse, you must avoid such antagonistic writing.

[41] Posted by St. James on 01-23-2009 at 08:03 PM • top

St.J. -

And there we part company. Sex outside of the marriage of one man and one woman is sinul. This is the case whether between an unmarried man/woman combination or within any man/man or woman/woman or other combination of man/man/woman/, man/woman/woman, man/man/animal, man/woman/animal or any other permutation or combination of perversion you can come up with. Again, just in case you don’t get it, sexual combinations outside of the union of one man married to one woman are sinful.

Q.E.D.

Take it or leave it. Your choice. Be in or be out.

Thanks for playing.

[42] Posted by Dilbertnomore on 01-23-2009 at 08:38 PM • top

#40 Are you a spokesperson for Rev. Susan Russell? How can this priest say that “homosexuality is a gift from God”?  I also think it’s funny that he would come out with this revelation on the Oprah show.  I wonder if he wants to be a copycat of the “Country Bishop”?

[43] Posted by The kat on 01-23-2009 at 09:35 PM • top

I’m sorry! I mean #41

[44] Posted by The kat on 01-23-2009 at 09:39 PM • top

The Kat, Nr 43

I try to present links that do not rely on religious prejudice, but instead contain factual information or news about the topic of sexual orientation. Great wrongs have been brought about by unjust discrimination and denigration of gay people by uncritical adherence to literal interpretation of scripture. If you doubt this statement, read here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_LGBT_people

And here:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hate+crimes++++gay&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq;=

http://www.thetaskforce.org/issues/hate_crimes_main_page

[45] Posted by St. James on 01-23-2009 at 11:59 PM • top

SJ [45] And great wrongs and denigration of others by slippery slope progressive nonsense - ya picks yer poison and live with the consequences

[46] Posted by masternav on 01-24-2009 at 12:04 AM • top

St James, I’m a little vague as to the relevance of any of your links to articles on violence.  It is like linking articles on violence against Jews to try to prove that Jesus was a blasphemer or simply a misunderstood rabbi and not God Incarnate.

[47] Posted by AndrewA on 01-24-2009 at 12:14 AM • top

St. James [45 and previous] having delivered the flippant remark, now let’s get serious. “Orientation” or attraction is not the issue - its the acting out on that attraction or orientation. The Bible is clear on the subject no matter how much you attempt to rationalize from the apologist role for active GLBT behaviors. The whole GLBT thing is a smoke screen anyway - those groups are only together for purely political reasons. You isolate any one group and they immediately get on bashing the others. Further on down the pike, since the activists in the LGBT groups have declared that any negative discussion around acting out LGBT behaviors as hatred and discrimination - there is no level of tolerance for any discussion that in not fully supportive of the agenda. The major fallacy, as has been noted above and ignored by you is the oft advanced argument that since it occurs “naturally ” in a minority segment of the current population, it must therefore be a part of the natural order of things. None of what you trotted out in this thread is either unfamiliar or has not been presented as some kind of argument. Nothing you have presented is in fact news to anyone here, for the most part. You are proselytizing in an blogsite that has been discussing this for a long time and is probably more familiar with the arguments you present than you are, and more besides.

[48] Posted by masternav on 01-24-2009 at 12:17 AM • top

Homosexuality is no more a sin than heterosexuality. Both are sexual orentations, psychological attributes that exist in every person, innate, unchosen, and (as far as is known)  not susceptible to change - in themselves unconnected to morality….there are no doubt many gay psychiatrists, as well as gay authors, firemen, musicians, priests, soldiers, mechanics, statesmen, lawyers & judges, policemen, politicians, postmen, truck drivers, skiers, parachutists, chefs, swimmers, tennis players, footballers, scientists, etc., etc., etc.

And no doubt gay conservative evangelical preachers….

http://newlifeblogs.com/bradyboyd/2009/01/23/an-important-message-from-pastor-brady/#respond

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/23/DDV815FN8S.DTL

Blessings

Seraph

[49] Posted by seraph on 01-24-2009 at 09:57 AM • top

I try to present links that do not rely on religious prejudice

apparently because only secular prejudice serves your ends.

Both are sexual orentations, psychological attributes that exist in every person, innate, unchosen, and (as far as is known) not susceptible to change - in themselves unconnected to morality.

St. James, can you please google “is ought fallacy”? Granting that a proclivity to a certain kind of bad behavior is unchosen, what does that have to do with whether the action is moral or not? It just seems as if you are applying arguments to this situation you would not apply to any other situation in life. For instance, if a thief stole your TV set, would he be innocent if he could demonstrate how the optic nerves transmitted information into his brain and how he the neurons worked together to cause him to enjoy the experience of TV (and that his enjoyment was “unchosen”)? Would you argue that the Biblical prohibition against stealing is invalidated because the biblical authors didn’t understand about nerves or the structure of the eye? Perhaps I’m misunderstanding you, but if so what did you mean to express by that sentence?

[51] Posted by SpongJohn SquarePantheist on 01-24-2009 at 10:16 AM • top

seraph, you should consider googling “is ought fallacy” as well… you would not apply this type of thinking to anything else in life, so why do you think anyone would be persuaded by the mere presentation of incidents like the ones you link to?

[52] Posted by SpongJohn SquarePantheist on 01-24-2009 at 10:20 AM • top

Persuaded? Why would you think I would harbor any illusion of persuading you?

I post to add a little spice as I see it ..to the conversation, not to persuade those whose minds are made up.

Blessings

Seraoh

[53] Posted by seraph on 01-24-2009 at 10:30 AM • top

why do you think anyone would be persuaded by the mere presentation of incidents like the ones you link to?

As I think about this statement from a purported Christian I can not hel to find it baffling and abit amusing.

In our context ...many people are persuaded to come to faith, visit church, get prayer for healing, volunteer for ministry, avoid sin etc etc etc…precisely by litsening to “incidents” that happened to others and often have not a thing to do with logic, investigation or reason.

“Testimonies”....“incidents”...who is to say? It should at least cause us to think about wether our ironclad reasoned exegesis of Bible verses hold true in the lives of real flesh and blood “conservative” Bible believing Christians.

Blessings

Seraph

[54] Posted by seraph on 01-24-2009 at 11:02 AM • top

Seraph, when I was a kid, my “conservative Bible believing” youth minister went to jail for sexual indiscretions with underage girls.  Should I take that as an endorsement of such things?  Conservatives and liberal alike are imperfect.  The fallibilities of man are not sufficient to change God’s standards.

[55] Posted by AndrewA on 01-24-2009 at 11:34 AM • top

If the devil can spout statistics, I suppose he is also quite good at citing websites.  Contemporary group think is an interesting thing.  We are all certain that science has proved beyond a doubt, all sorts of things like:  carbs are good; carbs are bad; global warming; global cooling; nature rules; nurture rules…yada, yada, yada.  I haven’t seen any definitive study or studies that bring the gavel down on the source of homosexual orientation. 

I think that some folks truly believe that those of us inclined to rely on scripture for our guidance hiss and spit whenever we encounter an “obvious” or “out” homosexual in our midst.  Since I personally have the same problems Paul had with my own personal sins, I do what I tell myself I won’t do, and I don’t do the things I say I will—I sure can’t point any fingers or do any spitting.  But I’m sure, if I tried, I could find some websites and studies that excuse, rationalize and defend (even celebrate) every one of my nasty little sins.  However, I definitely won’t put myself up for Bishop anytime soon.

[56] Posted by GoodMissMurphy on 01-24-2009 at 11:47 AM • top

And a Happy Saturday to All.  DIES IRAE

[57] Posted by St. James on 01-24-2009 at 11:48 AM • top

But I’m sure, if I tried, I could find some websites and studies that excuse, rationalize and defend (even celebrate) every one of my nasty little sins.

Ain’t that the truth.  I’ve even studied pro-paedophile and pro-zoophile websites, and the arguments they use sound remarkably like the ones that the more fashionable “sexual minorities” use.

[58] Posted by AndrewA on 01-24-2009 at 11:52 AM • top

Day of Wrath?

[59] Posted by AndrewA on 01-24-2009 at 11:57 AM • top

GoodMissMurphy- Nr.56:
The following link, to the Church Times article “How much is known about the origins of homosexuality,” has information about your question.

http://www.churchtimes.co.uk/content.asp?id=60752
This link was mentioned in my first comment, Nr.28.

[60] Posted by St. James on 01-24-2009 at 04:29 PM • top

MasterNav & AndrewA, Nrs 46 & 47

The links about violence and hate crimes in Comment Nr.45 are provided for no purpose other than to provide information about serious problems that have often been perpetrated or encouraged by Christians for many centuries. I am not trying to make any sort of religious or doctrinal point.
The facts are accurate; read the texts and make of it what you will.

[61] Posted by St. James on 01-24-2009 at 04:51 PM • top

Registered members are welcome to leave comments. Log in here, or register here.


Comment Policy: We pride ourselves on having some of the most open, honest debate anywhere about the crisis in our church. However, we do have a few rules that we enforce strictly. They are: No over-the-top profanity, no racial or ethnic slurs, and no threats real or implied of physical violence. Please see this post for more. Although we rarely do so, we reserve the right to remove or edit comments, as well as suspend users' accounts, solely at the discretion of site administrators. Since we try to err on the side of open debate, you may sometimes see comments that you believe strain the boundaries of our rules. Comments are the opinions of visitors, and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of Stand Firm, its board of directors, or its site administrators.