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[Off Topic] Camille Paglia on The Stimulus Package

Tuesday, February 24, 2009 • 9:30 am


From Salon.

My goodness she can write:

Money by the barrelful, by the truckload. Mountains of money, heaped like gassy pyramids in the national dump. Scrounging packs of politicos, snapping, snarling and sending green bills flying sky-high as they root through the tangled mass with ragged claws. The stale hot air filled with cries of rage, the gnashing of teeth and dark prophecies of doom.

Yes, this grotesque scene, like a claustrophobic circle in Dante’s “Inferno,” was what the U.S. government has looked like for the past two weeks as it fights on over Barack Obama’s stimulus package—a mammoth, chaotic grab bag of treasures, toys and gimcracks. Could popular opinion of our feckless Congress sink any lower? You betcha!

Why in the cosmos would the new administration, smoothly sailing out of Obama’s classy inauguration, repeat the embarrassing blunders of Bill Clinton’s first term? By foolishly promising a complete overhaul of healthcare within 100 days (and by putting his secretive, ill-prepared wife in charge of it), Clinton made himself look naive and incompetent and set healthcare reform back for more than 15 years.

President Obama was ill-served by his advisors (shall we thump that checkered piñata, Rahm Emanuel?), who evidently did not help him to produce a strong, focused, coherent bill that he could have explained and defended to the nation before it was set upon by partisan wolves. To defer to the House of Representatives and let the bill be thrown together by cacophonous mob rule made the president seem passive and behind the curve.


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Comments:

This will cost every man, woman and child $31,000 plus interest.  I would have preferred they just give my portion to me.

So, today my understanding is that about 15% of our tax dollar goes to pay interest (not the principle) on the national debt.  How much will this % increase with the passage of this “mountain o’ money?”

[1] Posted by B. Hunter on 02-24-2009 at 11:08 AM • top

Yeah, and Wall Street knows the senselessness of this “stimulus” bill.  It’s quite distressing seeing our retirement dwindle because of the “stimulus” package.
And now the President is worried about inflation and the deficit. HUH? I am flabbergasted—why didn’t he and the Democrats think about this two weeks ago?
The President isn’t too bright, maybe?  Or has lousy advisors?  Or just thinks he can get away with speaking out of both sides of his mouth?
Jane, Edwin’s wife

[2] Posted by Edwin on 02-24-2009 at 11:31 AM • top

This is what we, the Republicans have wrought.  I am a Republican.  I have never voted for a Democrat in my life.  Check out the Republicans who helped usher in the de-regulation of our financial institutions.  We have also been in an ill-conceived war in the Middle East for longer than we fought in WWII (remember what Colin Powell said about this war before we entered). 

This is what Democrats do.  Why are Democrats in power?  Because of what we as Republicans did over the last 8 years.  PS I voted for Bush twice, and think he is a good person.  It turns out, not that great as Pres..

It’s like when I woke up and realized that clowns run TEC.  This is what clowns do.  How did clowns get control?  By people like me not paying attention.  Whose fault is it that clowns are in control?  The clowns, or all the people like me that sat by and let them take control?

[3] Posted by Looking for Leaders on 02-24-2009 at 01:11 PM • top

Camille Paglia is Brain Ten crazy smart! She can and does skewer anyone. She has a refreshingly independent mind. I’d like to see a debate between Sarah Hey and Camille but they probably agree on many things.

[4] Posted by Fr. Dale on 02-24-2009 at 07:38 PM • top

Paglia is certainly interesting ... but chilling. 

In the Salon.com article of September 8, 2008, she wrote, “I have always frankly admitted that abortion is murder, the extermination of the powerless by the powerful.”  Nonetheless, she proclaimed her staunch support of abortion based on the superior right of personal choice. 

A gifted writer and thinker, most certainly.  She is the logical result of a post-Christian society.

[5] Posted by interested observer on 02-25-2009 at 05:19 PM • top

Au contraire—I think she is well worth posting simply because she doesn’t lie and claim that she is a Christian.

That is one of the refreshing things about her—she does not lie about what she wishes to deconstruct, and she is clear about her desire to do so.

Unlike the postmodern revisionists in TEC who don’t believe the gospel, Paglia believes in the existence of lies, in the existence of truth, and is open about her disbelief, rather than a pretending fraud.

I respect that immensely.

[6] Posted by Sarah on 02-27-2009 at 09:53 PM • top

Teresa, no one is being “welcomed.”  She is simply being quoted.  Lots of people, orthodox, heterodox, heathen and atheist, get quoted by Stand Firm.  If Susan and VGR can get quoted, why not Camille?

Besides, atheists can be very insightful.  For example, supposedly there is an old quote by Karl Marx saying that the Church of England would sooner give of its Articles of Faith than its endowments.  It has certainly proved prophetic of the Church of England’s American spinoff.

[7] Posted by AndrewA on 03-02-2009 at 08:26 AM • top

Hi Teresa,

“. . . so when Stand Firm makes its stand against the sinfulness of homosexuality within the TEC—and in general—we should stick to that, no matter who agrees with our views on other subjects.”

I completely agree.  I’m not certain how I have not stuck to that.  I continue to make my stand against the sinfulness of same-gender sexual relationships and the fact that those engaged in such public, scandalous sin should not be leaders of our church.  How is that the same as quoting an acknowledged lesbian where she is right, here on a blog?  Were I to follow your logic, I could never quote an atheist, a secular humanist, a Hindu, a Hasidic Jew, or any number of other people who are non-Christians.  I could not quote Jim Jones or Nietsche or Plato.  Kendall Harmon could not quote Sartre as he did yesterday. 

RE: “If Ms. Paglia sacrificed children in her spare time, would you still be so flippant about quoting her and lifting her words and praising them here?”

I have not been flippant at all—I admire and revel in the truth, whether that truth is spoken by a lesbian, a Marxist, a capitalist, a Buddhist, or a psychiatrist—and yes, were she a child sacrificer and speaking words of truth I would, were I to notice and be impressed by them, quote them.  Indeed there have been abortionists who have been quoted here.  And were I to discover an Incan or Mayan writer who spoke the truth in some passage, I would try to quote that.  We would even quote Sumerian writers.

RE: “With what you have said above, it seems Stand Firm would welcome atheists who practice homosexual behavior, as long as they agree with our political stance.”

We have welcomed atheists and homosexuals on this very blog.  And if they speak the truth about something, I will happily acknowledge that.  All truth is God’s truth.  But to be frank, Paglia does not agree with my political stance at all.  She is a liberal and votes Democrat.  However, she has spoken the truth in the above passage—and spoken it well—about the stimulus package.

RE: “That’s a slippery slope don’t you think?”

A slippery slope to quote the words of people of whatever belief or practice who occasionally speak truth?  What would it be a slippery slope towards?  I do not know. 

It certainly will not lead to my saying “since an avowed lesbian has spoken words of truth about the stimulus package, let us make her a bishop of the Christian church.”

[8] Posted by Sarah on 03-02-2009 at 08:47 AM • top

Teresa, when Sarah tags a post OFF TOPIC, she makes clear that she is stepping out of church-specific issues into the public square, where we interact with all kinds of folks on issues of common life.  St. Paul explains this to the church in I Corinthians 5:9-11.

[9] Posted by Timothy Fountain on 03-02-2009 at 09:24 AM • top

We quote and admire Winston Churchill who was an alcoholic. We listen in appreciation to the late Leonard Bernstein as he explains the precision and intent of Bach’s St. Matthew Passion although he was a homosexual. We read reverently the words of Moses, King David and St. Paul and they were all involved in murder. We even enjoy Elvis Presley’s singing even though he was a drug addict.
Truth and Beauty originate from God even when the vehicle is less than savory.  It doesn’t bother me when Camille Paglia speaks truth to me, her friends or anyone else. It does bother me when I as a Christian think and speak things that are not true or beautiful and I do it daily. “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.” (Prayer of the Heart)

[10] Posted by Fr. Dale on 03-02-2009 at 09:37 AM • top

Lol.

RE: “What a writer he is!”

Well, not really, Teresa—not a great writer at all.  It’s schlock.

If you’re trying somehow to shock me by offering words by Charles Manson—you haven’t succeeded. Couldn’t care less.

It wouldn’t bother me a bit if he wrote something really powerful and truthful as Paglia has . . . . but he didn’t.  So I’ll be deleting your comment, since it’s off topic.

If you have any powerful and true words that are well-written by anyone at all [and I don’t care if it’s Hitler]—feel free to email them to the bloggers and we’ll certainly consider posting them as separate posts, as we’ve done for Paglia.

You’re welcome to continue commenting on Camille Paglia’s comments on the stimulus package.

But please don’t comment further on your assertions that I shouldn’t be posting Paglia at all.  You’ve failed in your attempt to make your case and taking any thread on a rabbit trail of protests about whom we choose to post and quote over here on SF is not on-topic—though we do try to be generous in allowing people to try to make their cases occasionally.

Thanks.

[11] Posted by Sarah on 03-03-2009 at 07:53 AM • top

#13. TeresaOfAvila,
Statement #1. Nihlism
Statement #2. Narcissism
How are we edified, exhorted, or in any way improved by these statements?

[12] Posted by Fr. Dale on 03-03-2009 at 08:02 AM • top

Hey Dcn Dale—let’s move the comments back to Paglia’s comments on the stimulus package please.  No need to argue Teresa’s assertions further.


Thanks.

[13] Posted by Sarah on 03-03-2009 at 08:05 AM • top

BTW, Theresa…Paglia cannot be an “apostate”. She was not a Christian to begin with. You might want to remember the whole 1 Cor 5:10-12 thing.

[14] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 03-03-2009 at 08:16 AM • top

TeresaofAvila—I have no problem with folks trying to make a point and with people disagreeing with me—as witness the comments by you on this very thread.  But please try to keep things on topic.

This is a second warning.

[15] Posted by Sarah on 03-03-2009 at 08:39 AM • top

Therese,

Unfortunately you seem unable to stay on topic. You have been warned. Now you have lost your posting privileges

[16] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 03-03-2009 at 08:41 AM • top

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