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DioMichigan: Hey, What’s So Bad About a Bishop Who Meditates?

Monday, February 23, 2009 • 11:58 am


This is the spin from the Episcopal Diocese of Michigan’s newsletter (note that the Buddhist bishop-elect is in the diocese of Upper Michigan, not Michigan proper):

Thew Forrester’s understanding of and engagement with a broad spectrum of religious traditions generated some conversation even before his election. Thew Forrester was involved for several years in active Buddhist meditation and founded the Healing Arts Center at St. Paul’s Episcopal Church in Marquette where he serves as rector. But those most closely involved with the process of his nomination are not concerned by the speculation.

“Buddhism is a set of practices similar to Christian practices that became the property of monastics in the Middle Ages,” said Thompsett. “They are practices about meditation and awareness and compassionate living. They can be practiced without detriment to doctrine, and they are being restored today in all sorts of Christians. There are a number of bishops in the current House who engage in and have experience of Buddhist practices of mediation. This is not new.

“The question is ‘Is meditation a bad thing for bishops?’” asked Thompsett. “I think not. I think being spiritually grounded is essential for every leader in the church.”

This is such a juicy example of logical chaos that I’m tempted to skip lunch just to post on it.

Oh OK - I’ll just postpone lunch.

First: “...engagement with a broad spectrum of religious traditions…”

No, teaching comparative religion courses, or writing books on the histories of different faiths… THAT is “engagement with a broad spectrum of religious traditions.” Certainly nothing wrong with “engagement with a broad spectrum of religious traditions” if that’s what we’re talking about. But that’s not what we’re talking about. Forrester is an ordained Buddhist. He is not merely an observer of - a commenter on - a faith that is irreconcilable with Christianity; he is an active adherent and practitioner of one.

Second: “...generated some conversation…”

Well, yes and no. It certainly generated some conversation… but much of it was in the process of mocking the Episcopal Church’s latest episode of heresy and false teaching, and one centered around the election of a bishop, no less.

Third: “...those most closely involved with the process of his nomination are not concerned by the speculation.”

Well of course they aren’t, but this is like saying that those most closely involved with the electoral process in Venezuela are “not concerned by the speculation” that Hugo Chavez is running a dictatorship. It’s like saying that the folks who run NAMBLA are “not concerned by the speculation” that what they are engaging in is not “man-boy love,” but child molestation.

Fourth: “Buddhism is a set of practices similar to Christian practices that became the property of monastics in the Middle Ages.”

Are there some surface similarities in the meditative nature of the Christian monastic tradition, and Buddhism? Certainly. There are also some surface similarities in the theistic nature of Christianity as compared to Islam, but that doesn’t mean Christianity and Islam are, beneath the most superficial level, compatible in the least. Islam and Christianity are antithetical to each other. So are Buddhism and Christianity. THAT is the issue here.

Fifth: “They can be practiced without detriment to doctrine.”

This is weapons-grade idiocy. Buddhism denies Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and it only goes downhill from there. Please explain how one can practice Buddhism and with a straight face lay any claim to being a Christian.

Sixth: “There are a number of bishops in the current House who engage in and have experience of Buddhist practices of mediation. This is not new.”

Well certainly not, but that’s what we call begging the question: The issue is not whether there are some bishops in the HoB who are “extra-Christian” and even non-Christian in their beliefs and practices. That has been clear since the sixties during the Pike controversy, continued in the seventies with the Spong controversy, and has mushroomed ever since. I’d wager that fully a third of the HoB are either outright heretical in their beliefs and practices, or can have legitimate and serious questions raised as to whether their beliefs and statements can be defined as Christian.

That is not the question.

Neither is: “Is meditation a bad thing for bishops?”

The question is what we are to do about a House of Bishops, which purports to be a Christian body, that will no doubt add yet another non-Christian to its ranks; and not what we as individuals are to do about it, but what “we” as a communion and a global church are to do about it.


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Comments:

Your responses are very good Greg, thank you.  Hopefully, we can stay on topic as we deal with revisionists on this.

[1] Posted by Nikolaus on 02-23-2009 at 12:35 PM • top

Christian meditation focuses on the being of God and propositional truth about God.

Buddhist meditation focuses on nothingness.

They are two radically different things.  Even Thomas Merton, who wanted desperately to discover that Buddhist and Christian meditation was the same, was disappointed to learn that they were not.

[2] Posted by James Manley on 02-23-2009 at 01:19 PM • top

This is an irrelevancy: “Buddhism is a set of practices similar to Christian practices that became the property of monastics in the Middle Ages.”

OK, if it’s similar, then follow the monastic Christian practice.  If the distinction is so critical that one has to choose the anti-Christian practice instead, then that proves the critics’ point.

[3] Posted by Phil on 02-23-2009 at 01:35 PM • top

Would practicing the Jesus Prayer be a disqualification like practicing a Buddhist approach is a qualification?

[4] Posted by dwstroudmd+ on 02-23-2009 at 01:56 PM • top

Question:  What do all non-Christian religions have in common?  Hmmmm….???  Anyone???

Answer:  They all deny the deity of Christ. 

THEREFORE a practicing Christian bishop absolutely cannot be a serious member or leader of another religion or even philosophy.  Period. 

That isn’t to say that many of the IDEALS of other religions don’t parallel Christianity - a large percentage of the ideals are the same.  But in the end THEY DENY CHRIST’S DIETY - so out they go!

It’s the whole satan thing - you know, twisting the truth just a little bit…nothing new here…

[5] Posted by B. Hunter on 02-23-2009 at 03:06 PM • top

no time to comment today - but I’m subscribing

[6] Posted by Karen B. on 02-23-2009 at 03:39 PM • top

#2, I believe you mischaracterize Buddhist practice quite completely with that statement. But, since a discussion of the focus of Buddhism isn’t the point of this thread, and since there’s more than enough terminology floating around for you to have legitimately put that statement forward (e.g., the literal meaning of “shunya” and “shunyata,” being empty and emptiness or void and voidness) it is entirely understandable that you should put it that way. For my money, though, #4 seems to me to have got to the heart of the matter.

At some point, I’d love have the chance to expand on precisely why in my view Christianity and Buddhism are incompatible…there are a wealth of reasons to choose from, beginning with the denial of the divinity of Christ, and it might be something worth doing before too long.

For now, it’s clear that the candidate in N. Mich. has several strikes against him, according to the prior thread on this issue: 1) the selection process itself which was bizarre to an extreme, 2) his divided loyalties as expressed by Buddhist ordination (not just refuge, which alone is a problem), and 3) his Bowdlerizing the services in the Prayer Book to de-Christianize them…

[7] Posted by ears2hear on 02-23-2009 at 04:19 PM • top

As for the question of the thread, “what “we” as a communion and a global church are to do about it.” All I can suggest is to speak loudly and reasonably on the subject to anyone we can, and (of course) pray that those who are misled be enlightened and accept that enlightenment…er, not satori-type enlightenment, but the Christian kind.

[8] Posted by ears2hear on 02-23-2009 at 04:23 PM • top

It really is not whether he practices Buddhism that bothers me most, but rather his open denials of Nicene Christianity.  My case is that you cannot be a bishop if you are not a member of the Church catholic.  You are not a member of the Church catholic if you do not profess the Nicene Creed (give or take a filioque).  When you make statements like “we are each and every one an only begotten child of God” or “we are incarnations of the Trinity” or “incarnations of God” that you are indeed denying the Nicene faith.
Yeah, I know, to the modern Episcopalian, I am a Donatist.  Which only reveals how little they have read about the early church, and what Donatism means.  On the other hand, from what we see on the latest “listserve thread”, Rev. Thew Forrester has a lot in common with his colleague in El Camino Real.

[9] Posted by tjmcmahon on 02-23-2009 at 04:31 PM • top

tj:’ Rev. Thew Forrester has a lot in common with his colleague in El Camino Real.’

I’m not sure.  By my read the bishop-elect has one religion too many and Cockrell has one too few.  But, maybe your right in that they’re seemingly both a Person, or two, or three short of a full Trinity.

Peace,
-ms

[10] Posted by miserable sinner on 02-23-2009 at 05:00 PM • top

They can be practiced without detriment to doctrine,  Perhaps, but they certainly are not practiced without detriment in Kevin Thew Forrester’s case.  As I have stated before on the previous post, and TJ has also stated - Kevin Forrester’s Buddhism has contributed directly to his denial of “sin” and his profound dislike of any liturgy that smacks of “atonement.”  That is his motivation in rewriting the Eucharist prayers, that was his motivation for pulling the creed for most of last year.  Further he has pushed the use of an unauthorized version of the readings for over a year now.  The translation is often ridiculous in it’s bending to politically correct language.  Rumor has it that (surprise surprise) he has toned down the Lenten liturgy.  How convenient.  No doubt it will be waived emphatically to show how all the rumors just aren’t true.
I am sad to have to leave the church and go elsewhere, but I really no longer have a place in this diocese.  As for the official question, I imagine that many of the bishops will give consent because of the skillful propoganda campaign to dress this up as something it is not.  The fact that they were able to deliberately do this without it going to convention.  The leaders of this mess knew they had to get this wrapped up by the end of this month or they wouldn’t be able to make it happen because too much scrutiny at convention would pop their lovely little balloon.  I am very saddened by this outcome.  However, the “in crowd” are ecstatic.  They too will learn what a mistake they made in due time.

[11] Posted by NMIepisopalian on 02-23-2009 at 05:53 PM • top

I am sad to have to leave the church and go elsewhere, but I really no longer have a place in this diocese.

Go with God, my friend.

Assuming people I know go through with their stated intentions, there will be another substantial drop in numbers here.  I’ve heard from some that they will cross the bridge to Canada (the retired bishop of the Algoma diocese recently went to the ANiC- there are several orthodox congregations up there), others who live close to Wisconsin will cross the southern border into Fon du Lac. 

Also hearing reports that the diocese is trying to get the few parishes with endowments to tap the endowments to pay for the bishop and his cronies, and this is being resisted by some parishes.  I am sure they are hoping to close the parish here- the diocese could operate for years on what they could get for the 100 year old Tiffany windows.

[12] Posted by tjmcmahon on 02-23-2009 at 06:25 PM • top

They (the Michiganders) do know that, if he truly is a Buddhist then their new Bishop is opposed to homosexuality?  How does he square that with the pro-gay agenda?

[13] Posted by The Pilgrim on 02-23-2009 at 07:41 PM • top

Pilgrim - in his comments in the N. Michigan newsletters, Thew Forrester speaks of arriving at positions via his own “soul work.”  So, while he’s both Buddhist and Christian, neither one really has any normative authority over his FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELINGS.

[14] Posted by Timothy Fountain on 02-23-2009 at 07:44 PM • top

For a little while what will no doubt drop to THE smallest diocese in the Anglican Communion will be a Universalist-Episcopalian(?)Church (Episcopalian only because Kevin will be cashing his bishop pay checks regularly).  Just a few years back, the church in Marquette had pledge etc. income in the vicinity of $118,000.  Last reports I heard for the current pledge campaign were only about 1/2 that amount.  If the goal is to drive the church into the ground, they couldn’t have picked a better man.

[15] Posted by NMIepisopalian on 02-23-2009 at 08:18 PM • top

Pilgrim,
Read those affirmations.  Not only is he pro-gay agenda, he’s ready to jettison the entire Anglican Communion if they don’t toe the line.
To save you all the trouble of looking it up, here is the official statement of belief of the diocese (from the Sept. 2007 diocesan newsletter):

Because each and every one of us is an
only begotten child of God; because we,
as the church, are invited by God to see
all of creation as having life only insofar
as it is in God; because everything,
without exception, is the living presence,
or incarnation, of God; as the Diocese of
Northern Michigan,

We affirm Christ present in every
human being and reject any attempt to
restructure The Episcopal Church’s polity
in a manner contrary to the principles of
the baptismal covenant;

We affirm the full dignity and
autonomy and interdependence of every
Church in the Anglican Communion and
reject any attempt of the Primates to
assume an authority they do not have nor
have ever possessed;

We affirm the sacramental gift of all
persons, their Christ-ness, especially
those who are gay and lesbian, and reject
any moratorium on the blessing of same-
sex unions and consents of gay bishops,
as it would compromise their basic
dignity.

Affirmed by:

Standing Committee
Core Team
Diocesan Council

[16] Posted by tjmcmahon on 02-23-2009 at 08:24 PM • top

I scanned the list of congregations again for the diocese and I would be willing to bet a more accurate ASA figure is in the ballpark of 400-500 for the entire diocese - closer to 500 for summer, 400 for winter.  What think you TJ?  And that was before this lovely process.  Ontonagon is no longer in their church - they are less than 10 I believe.  Holy Innocents and St. James the Less are regularly less than 10.  Negaunee is probably in the 20-30 realm.  St. Paul’s is probably about 80 - 100.  That would be the “big” congregation that they are so proud of - I also heard that the “Meditation Group” regularly leaves their prayers rugs and “altar” etc. set up right there in front of the Christian altar all the time.  They started off in a chapel and Kevin has gradually moved them right into the sanctuary.

[17] Posted by NMIepisopalian on 02-23-2009 at 08:40 PM • top

NMI - if he gets the consents, are there folks up there willing to go to the consecration and object? 

Are there folks organized enough to do some press releases and at least get some Christian witness out in the public eye?

[18] Posted by Timothy Fountain on 02-23-2009 at 08:46 PM • top

NMI- I have never had the pleasure to visit the sanctuary of that particular St. Paul’s.  Probably a good thing.

I note of late that the local parish has taken to counting weekly rather than Sunday-only attendance (they do a mass on Wednesdays).  This may be inflating their figures a bit- they seem up from last year.  The economy may be impacting some as well. 

The current situation is such that individual churches will begin dropping off due to inability to pay heating bills and upkeep (what happened in Ontonagon, I suspect).  I know some are cutting pretty deep into endowments, and that the diocese is hitting those “rich” parishes up for more.  Between the diocesan assessments and the upkeep of the missioners, a parish is lucky to be left with 40% of their pledges (that last is based on hearsay, but hearsay from people who should have accurate information- however, I have not seen the books).  Not sure if any other than St. Pauls actually have a paid rector anymore. Although, between his rector status and 2 missionary districts, I imagine Rev. Forrester is doing OK.

[19] Posted by tjmcmahon on 02-23-2009 at 08:51 PM • top

if he gets the consents, are there folks up there willing to go to the consecration and object? 

If he gets the consents, Fr. Timothy, what would be the point of objecting?  He will be a full fledged bishop of the Episcopal Church.  I think a much more meaningful objection could be raised tomorrow by a joint statement of every so called Windsor bishop in TEC and their standing committees stating they were refusing consent and recommending to the Archbishop of Canterbury, publicly, that this bishop not be recognized if he gains consents.  THAT might make a whole heck of a lot more difference than 2 or 3 laymen getting arrested for disrupting a church service and then sued.

[20] Posted by tjmcmahon on 02-23-2009 at 09:11 PM • top

And *that* is about as likely as ... a protest from the ABC?

[21] Posted by oscewicee on 02-23-2009 at 09:16 PM • top

Here is a hint. Kevin Thew Forrester attended seminary at CDSP in Berkeley, California. He got his start in the Diocese of Oregon-same place as Jefferts-Schori. This explains a lot.

[22] Posted by hellcat on 02-23-2009 at 10:34 PM • top

(bolding mine) We affirm the sacramental gift of all persons, their Christ-ness, especially
those who are gay and lesbian,

All animals are equal.  But some animals are more equal than others.

[23] Posted by Milton on 02-24-2009 at 12:03 AM • top

timothy Fountain, TJM:

Oh, I know he’s no more a Buddhist then he is a Christian.

Question:  What do all non-Christian religions have in common?  Hmmmm….???  Anyone???

Answer:  They all deny the deity of Christ.


Oh yeah, like that’s a problem in TEC.

[24] Posted by The Pilgrim on 02-24-2009 at 04:28 AM • top

Fr Tim, in a comment above I estimate that ASA is likely to be significantly less than the stated 700.  More likely it is in the 400-500 range.  I would further estimate that 2/3 of those numbers are folks 70+ who are not likely to stand up and speak out.  I have a confession to make (there I go with that pesky atonement stuff).  I have not been sympathetic to the conservative wing of the church in recent years.  This experience has opened my eyes to what has angered many, many folks. I now have a much better sense of the brokenness in the church.  With or without Kevin T. Forrester as bishop this diocese was in significant decline.  The entire population of the region is something like 240,000.  It has traditionally been a strong Catholic and Lutheran immigrant population.  However, I am personally angry with what I see to be the manipulation of the situation for the benefit of a few who believe they are building a new church and a new way at the expense of others’ sacred traditions.

[25] Posted by NMIepisopalian on 02-24-2009 at 07:21 AM • top

Q.  What did the Zen bishop ask for when he ordered a hotdog?
A.  Make me one with everything.

[26] Posted by John Clay on 02-24-2009 at 08:26 AM • top

NMIepiscopalian—Can you get a copy of the revised Eucharist? Aren’t we canonically obliged (I know—That and a buck fifty could get you a hotdog somewhere) to use some version of the BCP in the principal service. I knew an evangelical who was roasted for fiddling a little with baptismal regeneration in the baptism liturgy.

If he can transmit a copy, would SFIF be interested in working out the details to receive it?

[27] Posted by Gator on 02-24-2009 at 09:41 AM • top

I can look and see if I have any of the liturgy booklets at home still.  Then I would also be able to give you the exact name of the unauthorized version of the readings as well.

[28] Posted by NMIepisopalian on 02-24-2009 at 09:54 AM • top

My questions about protest are not to say “Here’s the way to do it.”  As in tjm’s #20, there might be better ways.  I just think it important that people within TEC provide some cognitive dissonance against the DioNoMich spin - “Nobody’s really concerned about this.”

Read the oridnation rite for a bishop.  A bishop is not just some “local option” - a bishop is intended for the “leadership” of the “one, holy, catholic and apostolic church.”  Some of us need to object to this.  People need to let their bishops, standing cmtes. and GC deputies know that this stinks. 

What you say in #25, NMIe, is so important!  Some folks need to object to “the manipulation of the situation for the benefit of a few who believe they are building a new church and a new way at the expense of others’ sacred traditions.” And those folks should come from within TEC, not a rival/parallel Anglican entity.

[29] Posted by Timothy Fountain on 02-24-2009 at 10:08 AM • top

Someone has probably done the math; Dio.N.Mi. missed their opportunity to have this glide by at the Disneyland GC (but take note of any elections after March 10). Consents will be by individual bishops and Standing Committees. Timothy is right; let’s give it a go!

Will the Kendall be composing a statement on this? I ask this here because T19 hasn’t posted anything about Forrester’s election. Not to be snarky, will the Communion Partner dioceses or ACI attempt just a smidgen of reform work on this?

[30] Posted by Gator on 02-24-2009 at 10:18 AM • top

Gator, you can be certain they did their math.  Throughout the process they told us that this needed to be wrapped up by the end of February or it would go to General Convention and it probably wouldn’t pass AND THEN WE’D HAVE TO START ALL OVER AGAIN.  It was part of the psychological strategy to get folks on board with this.  Just as way back when the process was started they essentially told us “Jim Kelsey’s busy schedule is what killed him, you don’t want that to happen again, that’s why this needs to be an episcopal ministry support team, right?”  Those weren’t the exact words but it shows the spirit of what was done when we were supposedly dialoguing about how we want to look as a diocese - it was all lead by the nose by Kevin Thew Forrester and company.

[31] Posted by NMIepisopalian on 02-24-2009 at 04:13 PM • top

Um… It would appear that NO MAINSTREAM MEDIA OUTLET has picked up the story of the Episcopal Buddhist bishop-elect of the Diocese of Northern Michigan!  His name is Kevin Thew Forrester

Religious Intelligence
The Living Church
Christian Newswire / the IRD

and the blogs are all over it.

But my latest search of Google News reveals NOTHING from the non-religious press. Wow.  The election was Saturday.

The Episcopal Life story has NO MENTION of the controversy about his Buddhism!!!!

If any of you feel like forwarding this news to reporters with whom you have contact, here are key links and background:

http://www.religiousintelligence.co.uk/news/?NewsID=3964

http://www.livingchurch.org/news/news-updates/2009/2/23/northern-michigan-elects-christian-buddhist-bishop

http://www.earnedmedia.org/ird0223.htm

Key links here at Stand Firm include these:
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/20611
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/19901
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/19887
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/11832

And DON’T MISS THIS THREAD which is what got the Dio. of Northern Michigan on most conservative Anglicans’ radar screen back in Oct. 2007:  http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/6799

[32] Posted by Karen B. on 02-24-2009 at 04:32 PM • top

Re: a protest,
On another comment thread, I posted something along the lines of this:

I suggest that we repeat what we did during the consent process for +Mark Lawrence, only in reverse:  i.e. a campaign to contact every standing committee and urge them not to consent. (Obviously for Lawrence, we were lobbying for YES votes).  That was the orthodox Anglican blogosphere at its best.  I’d be willing to try and help in the research re: finding Std. Committee contact info, or putting together a spreadsheet we could use to track information on consents from each diocese.  It’s crucial that just as on the Duncan deposition vote and so many other matters, we be able to provide evidence to those trying to keep their heads in the sand as to where their bishop & dio. Std. Committee stand.

Also, most importantly, whether Forrester gets consents or not:  I think we have a clear duty to get the info out there about Forrester’s Buddhism and totally unChristian theology to TEC bishops & Std. Committees, so that no one can later say they made an ignorant / uninformed vote to consent to a Buddhist Bishop.

We may “long for the clarity” that would come with his getting consents, but for any of us who are in the strategic battle, we MUST not let any bishop or standing committee later be able to say “oh we didn’t know.”

This will take work folks.  Who is in?

[33] Posted by Karen B. on 02-24-2009 at 04:53 PM • top

Count me in. .

[34] Posted by oscewicee on 02-24-2009 at 05:06 PM • top

Wait, wait.  Why not start with a version of the questions that were put to Bishop Mark.

A blessed and ‘mutually accountable’ Lent for ALL,

[35] Posted by miserable sinner on 02-24-2009 at 05:34 PM • top

Thanks be to God, Karen.  I’ve been asking for this since the previous post/comments - the one that ran to over 300 comments.  Be aware that as I mentioned above rumor has it he has toned down his theology for the season of Lent - perhaps if they were interested they should look to the liturgy used in the season following Pentecost.

[36] Posted by NMIepisopalian on 02-24-2009 at 05:40 PM • top

OK, I’ve called around and have gathered up some information.  First of all the readings are taken from The Inclusive Hebrew Scriptures and The Inclusive New Testament from Priests for Equality/Quixote Center - not an approved translation, I believe, and often times ridiculous in it’s choice of language.

During the Season of Lent in 2008, the Nicene Creed was replaced with An Affirmation of Faith from the New Zealand Prayer Book.”  The Eucharistic Prayer was adapted from A Wee Worship Book of Iona.

He also regularly writes his own collects.  For example, from 3 February 2008:
God of Light and Wisdom
You call us to ascend the mountain
And wait for you:
Be our strength to climb
The fears and doubts of our soul;
Be our courage
To be engulfed by the cloud of your glory;
Be our patience
To receive the all-consuming fire of your presence;
And burn away the chaff that hides
The glory of our Belovedness in You;
In the Spirit of Christ we pray. Amen.

[37] Posted by NMIepisopalian on 02-24-2009 at 05:59 PM • top

Karen B.-
I started a couple weeks ago.  There is at least 1 CP diocese standing committee (and presumably their bishop) with a substantial amount of information.  I will pass along a copy of what NMI posted above.

Thanks NMI for the added information, I know you are putting yourself at some risk by finding and providing it.  What I previously knew about the eucharist at St. Paul’s is whispered to me here by clergy who are afraid someone will overhear.

This really is a watershed moment for the CP bishops.  There is no excuse for them if they do not get on the phone with bishops they know, conservative or liberal, and put an end to this travesty here and now.  Same is true for the diocesan standing committees.  There are enough readers of this blog who are on them.  Make up a packet of information and send it to the neighboring dioceses.  Do not expect any of us to take you seriously ever again if you let this pass without doing everything in your power to stop it.  You either stand for the Creeds or you don’t.  56 bishops can do what 5000 bloggers cannot.  That any bishop who does not actively oppose this is in violation of his ordination and consecration vows goes without saying. Unless, of course, they hold that the views and doctrine of Rev. Thew Forrester are indeed the doctrine of the Church. (Note, that even in the ‘79, a bishop is consecrated for “the Church”, not “this church” or the Episcopal Church.  So you all try to square his doctrine with that of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.)

[38] Posted by tjmcmahon on 02-24-2009 at 08:05 PM • top

An interesting sidebar, in an announcement published by the downstate Dio. of Michigan, they referred to N. Mich as the “third smallest diocese” in TEC.  Which means that at least 2 of the rump faux dioceses are even smaller than this one (cause this one was the smallest every year since…. gee, I don’t know, but for quite a while). 
Must be kinda embarrassing for TEC though, to think that they have 3 dioceses with smaller membership and ASA than several of the individual parishes that left TEC in the last couple years.

[39] Posted by tjmcmahon on 02-24-2009 at 08:37 PM • top

Right now Navajoland and Micronesia? are smaller in the Anglican Communion.  That’s based, of course, on the ASA of 700 which I do not believe is accurate.

[40] Posted by NMIepisopalian on 02-24-2009 at 09:39 PM • top

NMI- I think the 2007 figures showed a 12% drop in ASA to a total of a little over 600.  I think they are padding it now by also counting people who show up to mid week services, in the few places where there are mid week services.  Perhaps I will go one more time to count and check it against the parish report the following week (oops, that would be 2 more times, total).

[41] Posted by tjmcmahon on 02-24-2009 at 10:17 PM • top

41, thats just a little over my church asa.. ridiculous to have a bishop over a few parishioners

[42] Posted by Going Home on 02-24-2009 at 11:17 PM • top

How does St. John’s Detroit stand it???!!!

[43] Posted by TXThurifer on 02-25-2009 at 12:12 AM • top

NMI is correct about the padding of ASA reports. One parish in the eastern end of the U.P. documented it in their recent Annual Report.

[44] Posted by ruauper2 on 03-01-2009 at 09:44 PM • top

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