Welcome to Stand Firm!

Leo Frade’s Straw Man

Thursday, February 26, 2009 • 8:54 am


Bishop Frade of Southeast Florida is at it again:

One of the reasons I was attracted to the Episcopal Church was because you don’t have to surrender your brain, or who you are, as you come into church. That meant that I was going to encounter others who would have different ideas and who might be different from me in every way—except in our love for the same Lord. We all could pray together from the same Book of Common Prayer, regardless of whether we did it standing up or on our knees, with incense or with tambourines, in modern or archaic English, or in any of the countless other languages of this planet.

I miss the days when our only litmus test for being “in” was if we loved God with all our heart, soul and mind and our neighbor as ourselves. It saddens me when in the name of the purity of religion some try to destroy and divide our church, and ostracize those who are different or express another opinion.

Please note that I am not naming any one side on any one issue or referring to any specific ethnic or cultural group. I am speaking of anyone, of any background or theological position, who uses his or her belief as a weapon to denigrate any other child of God.

Let’s stop using God as an excuse to discriminate against and put down those whose beliefs, religious practice, sex, race, national origin, language, social class or sexual orientation may be different from ours.

Leaving aside the fact that here we have a bishop of the Episcopal Church quoting not from the Bible but from an EEOC regulation, this is the kind of straw man argument on which so many of the church’s heresies and doctrinal abominations have been carried through the door.

Also, please note that he is naming one side - ours - in his little screed here. If you doubt it, imagine the bishop turning now to our side, and then to the other side, and delivering this little lecture, and imagine how absurd it would sound when directed at the revisionists.

Of course we should not “use God” to discriminate against those who are merely different from us, as in skin color, ethnicity, or the language they speak. That is not the issue, bishop.

First, no one is “using God” to do anything. God is most certainly using us, in ways we sometimes realize and sometimes don’t. But what “we” are doing that you obviously disapprove of is using the faculties God has given us to insist that those who would lead a Christian church actually be… you know, Christians, and to insist that they not pollute our faith with strange doctrine. No one, certainly not on the orthodox side of this debate - where worship styles indeed run the gamut from incense to tambourines - is saying that this person or that should be excluded from the church based on their worship style. And certainly no one on the orthodox side of this debate - a substantial number of whom are now under the episcopal oversight of African bishops and archbishops - is saying that anyone should be excluded because of their race or nationality. As I’ve said many times, this debate is not about the diameter of communion wafers; this is about the Gospel of Jesus Christ and what it means to be a Christian.

Second, what we are saying is that the notion that there are no boundaries to “inclusiveness,” that there is no belief that should not be welcome in the church, is false. We are saying that to be a Christian means to hold certain things as true, and that to open certain things to ambiguity or “multiple interpretation” on the grounds that “inclusiveness” is our highest calling, is to gut the Gospel of its meaning, and thus make Christianity incoherent.

Bishop Frade declines to name the specific incident that spurred him to write this piece, but we can make some educated guesses. The openly gay bishop? The creeping paganism? The swirling sufis? The Druid priests? The Muslim priestess? The Buddhist bishop?

Well, whatever it is, bishop, know that meaning is, by definition, exclusive. “Donut” has no meaning if it includes bagels and burritos. “Blue” has no meaning if it includes green and red. “Christianity” has no meaning if it includes Allah and karma. Something you might ponder, too - especially during Lent - is that the Gospel has no meaning when it’s reduced to a sub-paragraph of federal hiring regulations.


25 Comments • Print-friendlyPrint-friendly w/commentsShare on Facebook
Comments:

Marc Andrus talks about how his mother in law joined the TEClub because it “hadn’t sacrificed justice.”

Most people don’t think that the 15 dissenting congregations getting the keys to and kicking the people out of the 66 majority parishes is just.

[1] Posted by robroy on 02-26-2009 at 09:41 AM • top

Please note that I am not naming any one side on any one issue or referring to any specific ethnic or cultural group.

Yes - I too got to that part and found myself muttering ‘BS’ under my breath…

[2] Posted by Derek Smith on 02-26-2009 at 09:41 AM • top

Wait just a cott’n-pick’n second - this is NOT the Cheyenne Social Club.  It’s not the Rotary Club.  It’s not even the Dallas Cowboys Fan Club (although that’s pretty close to church…at least in the great state of Texas).  It is a CHURCH, for crying out loud, and the ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIORS of it’s leaders are CLEARLY DEFINED in God’s Word, the Bible. 

Who does this guy think he is, anyway?  It’s GOD’S church, not your church, not my church. 

Arrogance on parade…

[3] Posted by B. Hunter on 02-26-2009 at 09:51 AM • top

...and, apparently, he HAS surrendered his brain. 

Sorry, couldn’t resist… wink

[4] Posted by B. Hunter on 02-26-2009 at 09:51 AM • top

And in a nutshell.

Leo Frade:

“...you don’t have to surrender [ ]who you are, as you come into church.”

Matthew 16:

” 24Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.”

rolleyes

[5] Posted by tired on 02-26-2009 at 09:59 AM • top

Just nonsensical. He makes strong claims to knowledge (indeed just as strong as anyone else in the church) - that he knows what it is to “love” God, who “God” is that he is loving”, that he can recognize the same love of the same God in others - but conceals it under a rhetoric of “little me, I’m just lovin’ my Lord”.

It’s disingenuous and kitsch. He’s faking an emotion, slathering his argument with sentimentality, whilst actually making strong claims to knowledge in order to critique those he disagrees with.

[6] Posted by driver8 on 02-26-2009 at 10:12 AM • top

I miss the days when our only litmus test for being “in” was if we loved God with all our heart, soul and mind and our neighbor as ourselves.

This bishop doesn’t even know his own liturgy.  Far from this being a litmus test for being “in,” we confess every Lord’s Day that we don’t do it—at least in every authorized Prayer Book that I am familiar with.  The bishop wants to substitute Pelagianism for the gospel message of grace. 

It because we don’t love God with our whole heart, mind, and will, and our neighbor as ourselves that orthodoxy is important.  We need to believe that Jesus Christ died and rose to forgive us and cleans us from sin because we have sins that we need to be forgiven and cleansed of.  On the other hand, if we’re already “loving God with all our heart, soul and mind, and our neighbor as ourselves,” then we really don’t need all that incarnation and atonement stuff.  Jesus provides us a good example, and gives us the good advice that all we need to do is love God with all our hearts and our neighbors as ourselves.

It never ceases to amaze me when TEC bishops make such revealing statements about their own theology—apparently oblivious to the sheer contradiction of what they say and what their own Prayer Book teaches.

[7] Posted by William Witt on 02-26-2009 at 10:28 AM • top

“you don’t have to surrender your brain, or who you are, as you come into church”
Tired:  I had the same thought as well.
I thought that we came to the Christian faith so that God could transform us.  I guess in TEC, we could to come in transform God.

[8] Posted by rreed on 02-26-2009 at 10:37 AM • top

He is 100% correct:

...except in our love for the same Lord

The lord he loves in not the Lord I love.
To start with:
The lord I love told us that marriage is between a man and a woman.
The lord I love told us to keep his commandments.
The lord I love physically rose from the dead and ascended into heaven.
The lord I love is THE way, not A way.

There are many more, but I think everyone knows the differences.

[9] Posted by JustOneVoice on 02-26-2009 at 10:39 AM • top

The same guys who say they don’t have to surrender their brains offer up the shellfish argument as serious theological discourse.

[10] Posted by robroy on 02-26-2009 at 10:41 AM • top

...and, apparently, he HAS surrendered his brain.

 
Not to mention any cojones he might have had before the PBess came on board…

[11] Posted by The Pilgrim on 02-26-2009 at 11:01 AM • top

Wasn’t it Jesus who said, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.”? The Old Testament(God’s covenant with the descendents of Abraham through Isaac)was contingent upon their obedience.  There are 1595 “if” statements in the Bible; most of them relate to obedience to the will of God.  “Love” is not an emotion,,,it is action.
Frances Scott

[12] Posted by Frances S Scott on 02-26-2009 at 11:26 AM • top

Let’s put it in the simplest of terms: If someone came into your house and tried to take that which was of most value to you, would you just stand by and watch it happen, consigned to the inevitability of your loss?...

...I didn’t think so…

[13] Posted by Amazed&Graced; on 02-26-2009 at 12:00 PM • top

Bravo, Greg, well said.

[14] Posted by ToAllTheWorld on 02-26-2009 at 12:29 PM • top

Correct me if I am wrong, but did not Bishop Frade inhibit and depose a number of priests for the sin of believing something different than he believes.

[15] Posted by tjmcmahon on 02-26-2009 at 12:48 PM • top

Just another patronizing load of tripe…as if orthodox had “surrendered their brain” in exchange for Mein Kampf.  Please!!!  Nope, my brain is still doing quite well, thank you good bishop.

Be +Frade…be very +Frade…

[16] Posted by TXThurifer on 02-26-2009 at 01:30 PM • top

TEC…I’ll put my +Jack LEO Iker again your +LEO Frade any day…

[17] Posted by TXThurifer on 02-26-2009 at 01:32 PM • top

against

[18] Posted by TXThurifer on 02-26-2009 at 01:33 PM • top

I am speaking of anyone, of any background or theological position, who uses his or her belief as a weapon to denigrate any other child of God.

Nobody uses a belief as a weapon.  It can’t be done.  Mr. Frade needs to consult a dictionary.

[19] Posted by Piedmont on 02-26-2009 at 01:49 PM • top

Tj (re: #15)
I don’t think +Frade has inhibited and deposed any bishops in the Dio. SE FL.  Of course he did vote to depose +Duncan.  Is that what you’re refering to?

[20] Posted by Karen B. on 02-26-2009 at 01:50 PM • top

Sounds like a man tired of defending his own position against the Truth, and wishing for a time when everyone would just AGREE with him and stop harkening back to that musty old book and its musty old savior upon which all that we are is built.

So we can add lazy to his list of ills…

KTF!...mrb

[21] Posted by Mike Bertaut on 02-26-2009 at 02:40 PM • top

One of the reasons I was attracted to the Episcopal Church was because you don’t have to surrender your brain, or who you are, as you come into church.

I have said this many times before: I would far prefer to surrender my brain than my soul!

[22] Posted by Nikolaus on 02-26-2009 at 02:48 PM • top

I have a friend who said today “A church should accept you where you are; but you should stay the same.”

The issue with these guys is they don’t accept their own sin; they don’t have any desire to become more “Christ-like” by reading scripture and praying every day.  They want to define the church and the world around them in THEIR IMAGE instead of following Christ and His church, letting the Holy Spirit change them from the inside out.

[23] Posted by B. Hunter on 02-26-2009 at 04:20 PM • top

“One of the reasons I was attracted to the Episcopal Church was because you don’t have to surrender your brain, or who you are, as you come into church.”

This is such an arrogant, elitist, statement. It is embarrassing to hear someone of our own religion make a statement so devoid of Christian understanding.
There are obviously many intelligent people, who use their “brains” wisely even though they belong to other denominations or have more orthodox beliefs than the speaker, they have not “left their brains at the door“ as liberals would have us believe.

[24] Posted by Betty See on 02-26-2009 at 10:42 PM • top

John Newton said it well:

“I am not what I ought to be — ah, how imperfect and deficient! I am not what I wish to be — I abhor what is evil, and I would cleave to what is good! I am not what I hope to be — soon, soon shall I put off mortality, and with mortality all sin and imperfection. Yet, though I am not what I ought to be, nor what I wish to be, nor what I hope to be, I can truly say, I am not what I once was; a slave to sin and Satan; and I can heartily join with the apostle, and acknowledge, “By the grace of God I am what I am.”

As quoted in The Christian Pioneer (1856) edited by Joseph Foulkes Winks, p. 84

From wikiquotes

[25] Posted by tired on 02-27-2009 at 12:40 PM • top

Registered members are welcome to leave comments. Log in here, or register here.


Comment Policy: We pride ourselves on having some of the most open, honest debate anywhere about the crisis in our church. However, we do have a few rules that we enforce strictly. They are: No over-the-top profanity, no racial or ethnic slurs, and no threats real or implied of physical violence. Please see this post for more. Although we rarely do so, we reserve the right to remove or edit comments, as well as suspend users' accounts, solely at the discretion of site administrators. Since we try to err on the side of open debate, you may sometimes see comments that you believe strain the boundaries of our rules. Comments are the opinions of visitors, and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of Stand Firm, its board of directors, or its site administrators.