Dallas, South Carolina Looking Like Thumbs-Down for Forrester

Time to stand up and be counted…will be interesting.

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It’s my understanding that Upper SC Standing Committee will submit questions to Thew Forrester. Word is that no one stepped up in a recent meeting to defend the bishop-elect. It will be telling whether ten (majority) will be found to sign their names to the consent.

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ROFLOL

T"ime to stand up and be counted”?
No, that was ten years ago. Now is the time to make non-dangerous, conscience soothing statments.

I probably need to do some penance, but I am rooting for the new Bishop <s>Genpo</s>, er, Thew Forrester. Now, I want Dallas and South Carolina to raise a stink, but his approval will provide yet more clarity.

I agree with RobRoy.

Clarity is what is needed to pull people from cowering in their sewers and getting back to their fulfilling their ordination vows to resist evil.

This has become good sport playing with people lives in TEC and I would like to see some risky behavoir, like all the Communion Partners actually forcing the issue to recorded votes by bishops.

Or they can remain forever silent, as they have been, and see if TEC will let it slide and welcome him into their inclusive arms.

Whatever…great fun.

#5 Martin, precisely who and/or what do you find so hysterically funny and why?  Perhaps God laughs also, but not with you.  Read Psalm 2.

Interesting that the dreaded B033 could be called into this election as well.  Oh, wait, it wasn’t an election was it?  More like an appointment?  So that blows up the VGR defense (we followed all our rules and stuff, so give us the guy we want!) and he’s clearly a B033 nightmare with his Buddhism, so will ANYBODY else stand up and complain about this dude?

What would be really interesting is if Forrester had been proposed as Bishop of a really big and influential diocese, how much would BeerKat interfere to keep her old classmate’s career on track?  Guess we’ll find out soon.

KTF!...mrb

How surreal when this latest example of, “...the public theological witness of a Christian bishop that hinders the proclamation and articulation of the Christian Gospel,” begins to come across as almost “normal” aberrant behavior on the part of TEC.  May God help us, may He help me to never become desensitized to the magnitude of the heresy due to the sheer volume of it.

Schori and Company can call this an “election” all they want, but since there was only one candidate, his “election” is really an appointment, and therefore they have violated their own written rules.  But of course, this is nothing new for them, is it?

What if Buddha Boy fails in the consent process and BeerKat appoints him anyway and tells the Standing Committees…“I don’t recognize your authority.” She did it in San Joaquin so she knows no one can oppose her to do it again. Stay Tuned.
Shalom,
Intercessor

Watching a television documentary last night I was reminded that Stalin was elected from the same number of candidates as Thew Forester.

I also hope Forrester receives consents - because if he does, then the orthodox in this country and abroad can raise a stink that will show that our concern is not simply with matters sexual, but with the truthfulness of the apostolic Gospel.  The progressives think that we are merely reacting to the “ick factor” of homosexuality - even though the matter of approving same-sex relationships was simply the sign that the authority of Scripture had been thrown into the dustbin.  So - if Forrester receives consents, it will be clear for everyone that apostolic faith has been tossed away and replaced by utter nonsense.

I take issue with several comments on this thread.  I agree that name-calling is inappropriate, be it Buddha Boy or Delusional Fool.  There is plenty to discuss in the topic at hand. 
As a Sunday School teacher, I have seen young children with a better understanding of the Trinity than Rev. Forrester’s.  Clearly, the safeguards built into the system before ordination, like examining chaplains, seminary examinations, the diocesan commission on ministry, and bishop interviews, failed.  Was there not one person who raised a red flag?  All of these roles are vitally important.  We not only have a clergy person with an erroneous doctrine, but he has taught these beliefs to numerous lay people and prepared the instructional material for the training of other clergy in his diocese. 
The sad thing is, I really think he is a nice guy.  He just took a wrong turn and ended up off track.  What happened to all of those shepherds who are supposed to keep future priests on track?

I think that Fr Forrester will become the next bishop of Northern Michigan.

Well, of course you like the idea Mr. Potter.  After all, with 7000 TEC churches out there, each needing a little glazed Buddha and additional ceremonial vessels, you stand to make a fortune.
Seriously though, Potter.  In a year, when the ASA of this diocese will be 3-400 (Thew Forrester has some BIG negative polling numbers in some parishes), and won’t even be able to make the pension payments for its 4 full time clergy without assistance from 815, are you going to be onboard with the idea of increasing your own tithe to pay for the structure of a diocese with an ASA that may be smaller than your parish?  And let us not forget, this diocese will send as many delegates to GC as Los Angeles or NY.  I’m sure you think that is fair as well.

The clergy finder lists this info about Rev. Forrester’s ordination:
Diaconal Date—06/19/1993
Bishop—Wood Jr, Raymond Stewart
Priesting Date—05/27/1994
Bishop—Ladehoff, Robert Louis, Michigan

Hi, Jill-

I appreciate your comments about name calling being inppropriate.

I am not familar with the ordination process in the Episcopal Church. I am in some other Christian tradtions, however. Before being ordained the candidates have to write copious papers and be examined by whole groups of people. Yes, people can and do question the candidates and sometimes they are stopped before they ever get ordained. However, one can “work” the system and find out what answers to give without actually completely believing them. Then again, the people doing the examinations may give you a pass depending on their theological framework even if they regard you as Unorthodox.

I believe I read that Mr. Forrester was ordained about 12 years ago. In that time his theology may have undergone a change and nobody thought to call him on it while he was in the wilds of Michigan. Either that, or he mayhave been very careful (and probably was) about whom he expressed this to. It is all too easy for people who have no accountability groups to act as lone rangers and do their own thing and if the congregation thinks you’re a nice guy they will not say anything. I think you’re right; He probably is a nice, compassionate guy who is not an Orthodox Christian and therefore doesn’t belong in the Episcopal ministry, IMO.

“Three steps forward two steps back.”
Communist strategy

“In our case the worse the better.”
V.I. Lenin on starting the Red revolution

Even if this guy’s consecration is stopped, what will it matter in the long dull fall of eternity?  This is just a matter of his personal belief and is just a symptom of the rot begun by TECs changing the doctrine of the undivided church, beginning with their assault on the apostolic priesthood cloaked as a blow for woman’s equality.

These types of things will only increase and are a logical progression from the errors begun in the 1970’s with WO and the so-called 1979 BCP.

This is a doctrinal dispute and the surfacing of these personalities like VGR and the Golden Buddha are symptoms of the TECs rejection of the uniqueness of Jesus and the brazen attempt to destroy the apostolic priesthood and the authority of the bishops.

“I have an idea, let’s have an election.”
Ferdinand Marcos

“The votes of veering crowds are not the things that are more excellent.”
William Watson

We better be careful here or the lawyers representing the real “Buddha Boy”, Ram Bahadur Bomjon, also known as Palden Dorje (his official Buddhist name), may come after us for sullying his good reputation. If Thew Forester has not yet reached the stage of a bodhisattva, a person on the path to attaining full enlightenment of buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings, then I don’t think we should call him Buddha Boy just yet.

I think I have said almost all I need to say about a practicing Buddhist becoming a EPAC bishop and, frankly, I think it is going to happen.  Can I ask some questions of strategy?

1.) It has been said that the appointment was timed so that it would not be thrown to the GenCon.  So what is the timing?  When does the consent process begin and when does it end?

2.)  My opinion of Mrs. Schori is incredibly low.  While I think it is silly to say she will declare the authority of the diocesen standing committees null & void (#13), I do trust her to try to pull something.  She and her Kanzler have proven themselves to be very creative in interpreting the C&C;.  What are the checks and balances to keep her honest?  What prevents her from declaring an erroneous count in Genpo’s favor?  Alternatively, what prevents her from reinterpreting the manner for constituting a majority?

3.)  What is the “official” number of consents needed?

Wait a minute!  Now the classic Zen question “What is the meaning of Bodhisattva’s coming from the West?” is clear to me, which means that it means nothing.  Why should a man consider nothing?  But the consideration of nothing is the essence of enlightenment.  Therefore the answer to the question “What is the meaning of Bodhisattva’s coming from the West?” is the key to enlightening the mind.

Jill,

I don’t the so-called “checks and balances” you mention - examining chaplains, seminary examinations, the diocesan commission on ministry, and bishop interviews - “failed” in the sense we usually think of. They failed to prevent Forrester from getting ordained, but I think we all have to realize… that was their goal. Yes, they failed the Christian church, but they did not fail in their goal to be hip, or edgy, or visionary, or prophetic, or progressive, or whatever they saw themselves as being that was more important than being guardians of the faith. On the contrary, they and those like them have been very, very successful in the Episcopal Church, and are making impressive gains in other mainline denominations.

Nikolaus,
While I may be corrected by one of the canon lawyers out there, I believe the current count per TEC is 111 dioceses (counting C. America, Taiwan, etc,) and that they need 56 standing committees and 56 diocesan bishops to consent.  I think that they do count the votes of Jerry Lamb, etc.

The reason for getting the “election” over before March 10 is that there needs to be a period (120 days, but that is from memory) for consents.  If the GC had started before the consent period was over, then the consent process would have happened at GC- allowing open debate on the candidates.  Had it gone to GC, I believe canons require 3 candidates.  The powers that be around here are also scared that GC will decide to shut down this EDS lab experiment in theology, and combine this diocese with another, since only 600 people go to Episcopal churches (1800 or so total members) in this 60-80,000 square mile area.
  On your #2- playing fast and loose with the consent process worries me too.  I do believe, however, that TEC is required by its own canons to publish a list of who consented.  I fully expect that they will get 56 or more standing committees.  The hope (longshot) is that the institutional bishops will realize that if they consent, they will be the open laughing stock of the Communion.  The “fabric of Communion” is torn, probably beyond repair, with the FCA provinces.  This election will do additional severe damage to relations with provinces like West Indies and SE Asia, and even, if my email is any indication, the Church of England- where they do not know whether to laugh or cry about this.
  The smartest course for KJS right now would be to call Forrester and tell him to withdraw.  Then at GC- either combine the diocese with one of the Michigan or Wisconsin dioceses, or appoint a missionary bishop at GC who, at the very least, uses the BCP.

anglicancatholicpriest, I don’t think you have that quite right.  For Episcopalians, Eucharistic Prayer Q begins:

Celebrant: What is the meaning of Bodhisattva’s coming from the West?
People: And also with you.

#21 & 28…
It’s ironic, that as TEC bureaucracy and red tape thickened in the ordination process, the WORSE things got.  I have spoken with so many holy clergy…and I asked them about their “processes”.  Many of them are fromt he days when, if your priest and bishop saw a vocation in you, you went forward…the process was enough vetting in itself…you wouldn’t make it through seminary if you were a fake…and you couldn’t fool them back then.  These processes, IMHO, are designed with the unfortunate side-effect, of sidelining orthodox men…and also men with a true desire implanted in their heart by the Lord.  Committee after committee after commission after retreat after board after commission after committee…ACNA better be really careful not to repeat the very “democratic” mistake of over-micro-management of aspirants/seminarians/candidates.  Even in conservative dioceses, I saw the best rejected and the wolves admitted…because they could “impress” committees with their achievements.

The House of Bishops is currently meeting in Kanuga.  This subject is sure to come up, at least informally.  Prayers can be found here:  http://anglicanprayer.wordpress.com/2009/03/13/house-of-bishops-15/ and http://anglicanprayer.wordpress.com/2009/03/14/house-of-bishops-16/.
May God use this sorry mess to the establishment of His kingdom on earth.

Intercessor, your comment #13 is simply wrong. First, you are typing about a priest, and a bishop elect.

He’s right, Intercessor.  Your name-calling is a cheap and despicable affront to all that is holy, in Mad Potter’s belief system.  From now on, kindly refer to the bishop-elect as either Rt Rev Buhdda-Boy or The Tahquanmenon Lotus. 

Shame on you.

Another prayer for the House of Bishops meeting at Kanuga:

O Blessed One, Shakyamuni Buddha,
Precious treasury of compassion,
Bestower of supreme inner peace,

You, who love all weirdness without exception,
Are the source of happiness and goodness;
And you guide us to the liberating path.

With folded hands all Episcopalians turn to you,
Supreme unchanging friend,
and request from the depths of their hearts:

Please give the Episcopal bishops the light of your wisdom
To dispel the darkness of their minds
And to heal their mental continuums.

May all suffering of Episcopalians quickly cease
And all happiness and joy be fulfilled;
And may holy Dharma flourish for evermore.

The Tahquanmenon Lotus

Ya, I see dat you ben up here in da Yoopee, eh Moot?

Chazaq,
I couldn’t find that.  Is it from the diocese or on the parish web page?
(I’m kidding, I hope)

Does anyone, at this point, think that enough diocesans and SCs will refuse consent to stop this?  Even with some of the moderately conservative dioceses thrown in, would it be enough?

I’m beginning to think that BeerKat and the PHIPS will have to get Dharma to pull himself from the race for the Chair of the UP for one compelling reason:

If she allows his installment to go on, then she creates a legitimate, NON-SEXUAL argument for the orthodox to key on.  I mean, we spout that it’s about Scripture and the Trinity and the Creeds and they shout back “then how come the only thing you complained about was VGR!!” (which we all know is not true, but he literally was the straw that broke the camel’s back, as it were) and that grants them some sort of immunity in the MSM, as we can be painted as bigots, homophobes, or whatever.

But we can LEGITIMATELY complain about Dharma, cause he’s a BUDDHIST!!  And even a devout same-sex advocate would have to admit that have a non-Christian Bishop promotes legimate complaints.

Maybe so…Hmmm…

KTF!...mrb

Ya, even Trolls go up der once in a while. 

The sad thing is, I really think he is a nice guy. He just took a wrong turn and ended up off track.

Sorry Jill. Can’t let this one pass. One who manipulates the system to shove apostate visions down the throat of what was once a Christian group of church members in order to endanger their immortal souls is not a nice guy. He is evil. Hannibal Lecter was a nice guy until dinner time.
Intercessor

One other thing, Why is it o.k. for the gentleman in question to be a priest, but not a bishop?

Am I missing something here?

I.A. Japer
Slippery Slope Episcopal Church
The Woods, Michigan

Dear I.A. Japer #41 -
Because a bishop is specifically called upon to exercise leadership in the wider church.  It is part of the ordination rite itself.  This is why the other diocesan bishops and standing committees are called upon for consent (which they are not in the case of priests and deacons).

I don’t think it is good that a priest dabble in this stuff, but I have to respect the “polity” of the church on that.  A priest is licensed to serve under a diocesan bishop and so it becomes a more local problem (at least on paper).

Chazaq—#30—I’m glad I wasn’t drinking something:

For Episcopalians, Eucharistic Prayer Q begins:

Celebrant: What is the meaning of Bodhisattva’s coming from the West?

People: And also with you.

Wicked funny!

I find an interesting question has been raised and that is the General Ordination Exams which KJS and KTF took at CDSP. It has been my personal opinion that the GOE’s have been used as a tool to prevent many orthodox candidates for ordination from proceeding to ordination.  There is one caveat, and that is it really depends on ones Bishop, Standing Committee and Commission on ministry.

TXThurifer did point out the death by committee that the ordination process has become within TEc (one of those liberal acitivist ploys as Sarah would put it) and I second his appeal to ACNA to keep it simple and scriptural.  “For God so loved the world that He sent His Only Begotten Son…  and not a committee”

My issue with the GOE’s was not per se their content and questions, as I saw all the papers from 1993 and there were some real pastoral toughies thrown in there.  What amazed me were the results.  At the risk of being arrogant, but those who couldn’t tell you the difference between Ecclesiastes and Ecclesiasticus were the ones who passed them all with flying colours (three guesses who I put in that group).  The one or two who were Scripturally based in their responses literally got crucified.  For me it came down to two things.

Firstly, and someone correct me as I may very well be wrong, but GOE’s are really the only time all the TEc Seminary’s work in unison as all take the same exam at the same time.  Even in 93 the lines between all the different seminaries had been drawn though Nashotah hadn’t quote started its revival (I remember muttered comments about their low graduation numbers) so the balance was already significantly revisionist.  Using Scripture to justify a response that would have a liberal howling could well get you a big X on your paper.  The reason being that most of those marking GEO’s were of a deliberate liberal bent.  I remember two more conservative friends from CDSP quite freely talking that they would have to ‘ie their ass off’ in the GOE’ as basically it was telling them what they wanted to hear.  The GOE’s had in essence therefore changed from a tool to esptablish that a candidate has acheived or gone beyond a basic standard of Theological and Pastoral education to a tool used to confirm that one is ‘toeing the party line.’  What was funnier was that people were even jokingly starting to acknowledge it.

The Second issue I have was that if GOE’s were the ‘Institutional Standard’  why was successful completion of them all required for ordination.  It seemed to me that is you were in a large diocese with lot of Candidates (say California or LA) GOE’s were another thing the Commission on ministry actually rfered to.  Smaller diocese it depended on how you Bishop viewed GOE’s and even then many were dubious of them.

Not having been around TEc for a wee while do they still have GOE’s or is it

Can you say the Creeds without crossing your fingers?
A   YES (Pass go straight to Ordination Service)
B   NO   (Fail… Candidate Christain!!!!  Beware)

Any active TEc know if there are still GOE’s or not?

Saying that though I think this may actually surprisingly be the straw that breaks the camels back communionwise.  TEc could throw social and cultural answers back when challenged on the same-sex issue, but this is literally defying the ‘Faith once received.’ 

If KJS lamblasts KTF’s conscents I agree with many that she is literally handing the conservatives more ammunition than they can probably carry, and I have no doubt they will run it all the way to cassions.  However it will probably be only the first occassion that TEc gives the rest of the communion the proverbial finger, as I highly suspect GC09 will be almost a declaration of UDI.

Thats my tuppence

Alasdair…  with nice new ‘speedo’ swimming trunks.

#41 I agree.  If nothing else it shows TEc’s hypocrisy when it will depose and defrock Bible Believing clergy, but not use the fact that KTF has by the Canons “Abandoned the Communion of the Episcopal Church” by ordination into a body not in communion with the TEc. Curmudgeon might rap me on the knuckles with his judges hammer but in a literal interpretation, since none of the ACNA members, through their sponsoring provinces, are in communion with TEc they have abandoned them… and quite rightly so.

By the Canons the ‘Standing Committee’ should be inhibiting KTF, not ‘appointing’ him bishop.  I also understand Timothy’s point regarding a priest’s relationship to their bishop.

But I am a reasserter…  what do I have to say about anything in TEc.

Will someone please tell me this is not a bizare episcopal episode of Father Ted?

Alasdair

Speaking of unorthodox elevations to bishop:

Is there a Wiccan in the wings?

Or a Warlock in the woodwork?

anglicancatholicpriest

“One other thing, Why is it o.k. for the gentleman in question to be a priest, but not a bishop?

Am I missing something here?”

It is NOT “o.k.” for Forrester to be a deacon,priest nor bishop - he is a heretic, but honestly, since when did this stop others from filling these ‘positions’ in TEC?

One other thing, Why is it o.k. for the gentleman in question to be a priest, but not a bishop?

Am I missing something here?

I.A. Japer
Slippery Slope Episcopal Church
The Woods, Michigan
[41] Posted by

I think one must consider whether TEC is too far gone for salvation. If it is, then the coronation of another imposter is of no matter in the end, and it really doesn’t matter whether it is successfully opposed or not. If it is not, then it certainly does matter, and his coronation, oops, ordination, should be opposed to the last breath. As for me, this “rat” left the sinking TEC ship some time ago as a member of the “gang of 11” Virginian Churches, and my prediction is that TEC will suffer and die a slow, painful death…

Amazed and graced-
All of us are too far gone for Salvation.  It is only through the grace of God and our Lord Jesus Christ that we attain it.  It would not do to consider that some poor 70 year old life long Episcopalian in Escanaba or Negaunee (or San Francisco or Las Vegas) is so far gone as to be beyond salvation. Some of them have been much better Christians than I have. They deserve a better bishop.  They deserve a bishop who does understand where salvation comes from, and is determined to do all in his power to lead his people to it.

I think it important that folks attend to comment #44 by Alisdair, an overseas student at CDSP during the KJS/KTF era.  His inside witness on how the General Ordination Exams were used clearly documents that the rot is systemic.

tj, I think you missed my point. Do not confuse the individual with the institution. I am all for attending to the needs of individuals that still reside (for whatever reason) within TEC. However, some of these folks don’t want our “flavor” of what it takes to be saved, and certainly those who run TEC do not. Instead, consider the institution that IS TEC. My point was that, if the body that is TEC is that close to death, what difference does it make that a the body has contracted a new “ailment” in the form of a Zen Buddist Bishop in these final hours? On the other hand, if the body that is TEC can be “saved”, then fight this new “ailment” with everything you’ve got…

I just personally believe the time for fighting for TEC is past…

if the body that is TEC is that close to death, what difference does it make that the body has contracted a new “ailment” in the form of a Zen Buddist Bishop in these final hours?

First of all, having a Buddhist Bishop is not a new ailment; it is simply an acknowledgement of what Episcopalians have become (cradle Episcopalian here—I know whereof I talketh).  Second, TEC is not in its final hours; the corpse will continue to twitch for many years to come, funded by the bazillions of dollars our dead ancestors gave it.  Finally, what difference does it make? Well, in the Episcopal Church, more religions is more better.  So far, Episcopalians have Wiccans, Druids, Muslims, Buddhists, new-agers, atheists, you name it and they all have equal claim to a place at the table (orthodox catholic biblical Christians need not apply). Otherwise, where would they go?

New from Thew Forrester’s parish website:
http://www.stpmqt.org/bulletin/031509.pdf

BEING RECEIVED INTO THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH

There are many paths into God, all of them sacred, and each emphasizes
something different and beautiful. St. Paul’s stands within the Christian path of the
Episcopal Church. As followers of the way of Jesus of Nazareth, we are a community of
people on a journey – we hold as sacred the questioning mind and the searching heart.
We worship in the presence of a God whose love knows no bounds. The table around
which we gather and are fed is open to all, for this table is the face of a bountiful God.
If it may be your experience that the Episcopal church offers a life-giving path,
and you are interested in being received into this Church family, we will be welcoming
new members on May 3rd. If you would like to discuss the possibility and process, please
contact Sandra P., Barb C, or Kevin Thew Forrester.

No comment beyond: What a sad, soft collection of words in the invitation: “If it may be your experience that the Episcopal church offers a life-giving path….”

it is not ok for him to be either a priest or a bishop[

I have not read all the comments and I am certainly not an authority on TECUSA law.  I do have an opinion.  If this person becomes a Bishop in my Church, as a member of the Church in the Diocese of South Carolina I urge the powers that be to immediately leave TECUSA.  I don’t care what it takes.  If the Diocese does not leave, I guess I and my family will have to. It’s a sad day not just for the Episcopal Church but for all Christians.