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Reformed Pastor: Not Pro-Choice, but Pro-Abortion

Tuesday, March 31, 2009 • 12:02 pm


Before David Fischler went all Presby on us, I offered him a spot on the Stand Firm blogger staff. I am routinely relieved that he hasn’t gone far, as in this post where he picks up on James Manley’s comment in our Katherine Ragsdale thread and runs with it:

This person is not a scholar, but an activist. She is known entirely as a result of her abortion rights advocacy. She is one of the founders of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Rights, and is on the board of directors of NARAL. And now the president of an Episcopal seminary. Those who have chosen her have put their stamp of approval on one of the most extreme pro-abortionists in the country, much less the church.

So I think it is now safe to say that, in fact, there are people in the mainline churches–some of whom are even in prominent positions–who are not pro-choice at all. They are pro-abortion, and according to the ancient standards of the church–standards that go all the way back to the early 2nd century and the Didache–they should be treated as anathema.


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Comments:

So to recap:
1. No academic credentials.
2. Pro-abortion activist.
3. Self-avowed, openly homosexual.

Indeed the perfect individual to be dean of a Christian seminary. What more could Uncle Screwtape ask for? Yes, she will send the next generation of priests and priestesses out into the world, well-prepared for their mission of further destroying the Anglican Communion. Assuming, of course, that the seminary stays open long enough for any of them to graduate.

[1] Posted by Ralph on 03-31-2009 at 12:34 PM • top

I’ve been offline for most of the past 5 days and so only skimmed the Katherine Ragsdale news (didn’t read most of the comments in the thread).  But then I saw David’s post while skimming through my bloglines feeds and I saw her sermon where she said over and over “Abortion is a blessing.  Repeat after me, abortion is a blessing.”  I was horrified.

[2] Posted by Karen B. on 03-31-2009 at 01:02 PM • top

Being pro-choice is being pro-abortion.

[3] Posted by Branford on 03-31-2009 at 01:26 PM • top

Before David Fischler went all Presby on us

Well, Greg, you know the nut doesn’t fall too far from the tree….

Thanks for the good word, and you and the gang keep up the great work!

[4] Posted by David Fischler on 03-31-2009 at 02:06 PM • top

Being pro-choice is being pro-death.  That’s all they offer.  The women will tell you “they had no choice.”  So I guess they really are not pro-choice.  Lord have Mercy

[5] Posted by PROPHET MICAIAH on 03-31-2009 at 02:10 PM • top

Karen, #2, that the entire congregation didn’t stand up and walk out at that moment is a sign of how far the putrification has spread in TEC.  We’re a couple of ticks away from black mass at the NatCat, I reckon.

[6] Posted by Jeffersonian on 03-31-2009 at 03:24 PM • top

I really can’t understand how anyone can think that having an abortion is a blessing?  So, killing your own child is GOOD?  Repeat after me - abortion is killing your own child…abortion is killing your own child…

God can and will forgive and restore anyone who has had an abortion, should they choose to repent.  However, there are physical, emotional and spiritual consequences that can linger for a lifetime.  It’s definately an “open door” for satan to get his hooks into you. 

I have told my children how it would make me feel should I find out one of them and their girlfriend killed my grandchild - that no matter what they should come to me and we will all figure it out together - we will do what it takes to make it work.  Period.  No judgement.  No lectures.

[7] Posted by B. Hunter on 03-31-2009 at 03:30 PM • top

Wow.  It’s hard to understand anyone so heartless.

[8] Posted by Scott Boykin on 03-31-2009 at 03:45 PM • top

With all that is going on - Islamic priests, Buddhist bishops, creed-critics, resurrection-refuters, divinity-deniers, sodomite bishops, abortion cheerleaders - isn’t it about time we realize that TEC is batting for the other side?

[9] Posted by Jeffersonian on 03-31-2009 at 04:00 PM • top

She is sub-human. I am reminded of the versatility of millstones.

[10] Posted by Greg Griffith on 03-31-2009 at 04:01 PM • top

I know this is OT, but couldn’t find a topic that it suited, so I’m posting a reference here. The bailout funds given to AIG is being used to promote Sharia, through AIG’s Sharia division, Takaful. The Thomas More Law Center in Ann Arbor, MI filed suit to stop bailout funds from being used to promote Sharia, et al.. as it violates our constitution, Tim Geithner and others in the Obama administration has attempted to have the lawsuit thrown out, claiming it shouldn’t matter who gets the money as we’re in a “crisis”. Here’s a link to read more:

http://www.thomasmore.org/default-sb_thomasmore.html?839657101

[11] Posted by mari on 03-31-2009 at 04:53 PM • top

Our money given to AIG is being used to promote Sharia and islam…

That is our money…not Obama’s or his cohorts.

The UN is talking about huge re-distribution of money on a global scale.  Ugh.
We’re being betrayed from within.

[12] Posted by Theodora on 03-31-2009 at 05:30 PM • top

Greg,
If by “sub-human” you mean that she is simply a fallen human, then I agree.  But then, we are all “sub-human.”

If you mean that she is less of a person than you or I or that Jesus didn’t die for her (and Matt+ we can debate whether Jesus died for all or just for the elect some other time), the I have to ask you to repent.

Is she a loathsome human because of her support for killing chilren?  Yes, she is.  But she is still human.  Are her crimes and sins compounded by the fact that she urges others to sin as well?  Yes, but she is still human.  Is she a walking argument for Total Depravity?  Yes, but she is still human.  She was created by God.  Jesus died or her.  I would rather she turn from her sins and rebellion and embrace Jesus Christ, but she is still human.

YBIC,
Phil Snyder

[13] Posted by Philip Snyder on 03-31-2009 at 05:44 PM • top

I don’t know, Phil. Obviously Jesus did die for her, too. But what are we to make of someone who wears a collar of His church, and goes so far to promote the infliction of the ultimate harm of His most innocent ones?

I’m still thinking millstones.

[14] Posted by Greg Griffith on 03-31-2009 at 05:55 PM • top

We can judge the deeds, Greg, but judgement of the soul is in our Maker’s hands.

[15] Posted by elanor on 03-31-2009 at 07:32 PM • top

My question is,  are those of you who are pastors in orthodox churches doing anything to counter this?  Do you preach against abortion?  Does your congregation know you believe it is always wrong?  That it is wrong even if their 14 year old daughter gets pregnant?  That it is wrong even if they are 44 and have found out that the baby has Down’s Syndrome?  Have you told them that life begins at conception, so that anything which deliberately destroys human embryos is wrong?  Have you told them that that would include the use of the IUD, and certain forms and doses of birth control pills?  Have you told them that trying to have a baby by in vitro usually involves destroying some embryos, and that embryonic stem cell research is experimentation on human beings?  Have you told them that they shouldn’t work for agencies which do abortions, and that they should not cooperate with abortion in the course of their work, even if as a nurse they are asked to do so?  Have you made it clear to them that it is wrong to assist anyone to get an abortion, by paying for it, or by driving them to the appointment? 
Does your church send a bus to the Right to LIfe March?  Do you ever picket the local abortion clinic?
Does your church support Birthright or another pro-life pregnancy center?  I think many churches do that last, as it seems non-controversial to help pregnant young women.  But I don’t think there is much preaching against abortion, especially much specific preaching about all of these moral issues.  Is that because, perhaps, there are some new Christians in your congregations, and always some visitors there,  and you feel that they will choke on this strong meat?  Is it because you know that there are some there who do not entirely agree,  who take a “nuanced” position on abortion, and think it might be acceptable for those in truly difficult situations,  and you don’t want to alienate them?  The sinfulness of homosexual relationships was worth losing large numbers of congregants over,  but the sinfulness of killing the unborn is not worth decreasing the average Sunday attendance? 

The sermon someone linked to in the last thread about this evil woman, in which she had her congregation repeat “Abortion is a blessing.”  is unutterably evil.  She is willing to exhort her congregation to support her in this evil and to promote this evil.  Are your actions as strong against this evil as hers are in promoting it? 
Susan Peterson

[16] Posted by eulogos on 03-31-2009 at 08:04 PM • top

Phil,

No, I do not mean “simply fallen.” I mean evil of a type and depth that is not human in nature, but demonic. I can drop “subhuman,” because that can be construed to mean that she is not cuplable for her actions, and she most certainly is. But if she is not demonic then the word has lost all meaning.

Our Maker said: “And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.”

I can pray for Ragsdale to repent, and I do, but unless she repents, then her judgement has been revealed, by none other than Jesus Christ himself. In that case,  as far as I’m concerned she can go to hell, and I’m quite confident she will.

[17] Posted by Greg Griffith on 03-31-2009 at 08:34 PM • top

If one doesn’t understand the commitment and the bond as well as the holy aspects of MARRIAGE, ordained by God in His Word, as a practicing homosexual cannot, how can one be expected to consider procreation and new LIFE as a commitment or holy, or God-given?  As I believe MY sexuality is God-given, to be used as HE ordained, I can do no other than follow Him.  But this woman’s sexuality as she choses to express it is NOT God given.  How can we expect her to understand the OUTCOME of God-given sexuality???

[18] Posted by Goughdonna on 03-31-2009 at 08:49 PM • top

I’m again reminded of something Mother Teresa said, which goes something like this:

“It is a poverty that a child must die so that you may live as you please”.

[19] Posted by Capn Jack Sparrow on 03-31-2009 at 08:50 PM • top

Greg,
She is a slave of the Enemy of our souls.

We must warn her, and pray for her.  Otherwise her blood will be on our hands.

We must never forget that while we act in the fleshly vessel of this temple, our enemy is not flesh and blood.

We can and should try her deeds, and find her completely unfit for communion, much less an office in the Church.  We should bewail the fact that no one has disciplined her.  We can and must warn those who have the duty and authority to correct her and have not.

Her eternal condemnation is not in our hands, however I do think that 1 Corinthians 5 applies.

[20] Posted by Bo on 03-31-2009 at 09:08 PM • top

eulogos, very good questions—-and I think we know the answers in most churches and most pastors.  I just wish they would preach that hell really is hot and is enlarging itself.  Lord have mercy!

[21] Posted by PROPHET MICAIAH on 03-31-2009 at 09:10 PM • top

Ragsdale said the following in the subject “sermon”:

And when a woman becomes pregnant within a loving, supportive, respectful relationship; has every option open to her; decides she does not wish to bear a child; and has access to a safe, affordable abortion – there is not a tragedy in sight—only blessing. The ability to enjoy God’s good gift of sexuality without compromising one’s education, life’s work, or ability to put to use God’s gifts and call is simply blessing.

This incredibly ugly statement endorses unbridled selfishness.  It blesses the sacrifice of another human being’s life for the sake of one’s own sexual enjoyment.  How could Ragsdale fail to comprehend so plain a fact?

<blockquote>And the king will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.”
Matt. 25:40

[22] Posted by Scott Boykin on 03-31-2009 at 10:00 PM • top

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