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Kevin Forrester’s World is Flat

Monday, April 27, 2009 • 8:44 am

This post is an expanded version of a comment I made on the Forrester Consents Tally thread.
As longtime observers of the crisis in the Episcopal church watch Kevin "Genpo" Thew Forrester's consents process unravel, some have asked why Forrester is encountering so much opposition when others with equally - and arguably more serious - heretical views have become bishops before. John Shelby Spong is only one of several names that comes to mind.

I asked the question, "What does Forrester have, that the others didn't?" Here's what I suggest is one answer.

I believe what Forrester has that the others didn’t, is an activated community connected by technology that allows it to disseminate large amounts of information, very quickly, very accurately, and to exactly the right people.

Within just a couple of weeks of his election - and months before the consent process was to end - bishops and standing committees all over the country received stacks of information about Forrester - some of it opinion, to be sure, but most of it, I’m guessing, was just copies of his Trinity Sunday sermon, copies of his 2008 Easter service, copies of the service in which he replaced the New testament reading with a reading from the Qur’an, copies of the diocesan newsletters and such in which he outlined his shaky Christology, view of sin and salvation (in other words, the core doctrines of Christianity itself), and probably that photo of "Genpo" standing in his Buddhist garb next to his mentor.

Forrester, in his mountains of written testimony, wrote his own indictment. The web, this site and others, and engaged clerics and lay people carried this information through the right channels and to the right destinations.

But Spong also had piles of evidence that he was a raving heretic - every bit as heretical as Forrester - but in the 70’s there wasn’t the means to collect it and distribute it accurately, quickly, and to the right people. The ability to do that changes the rules of the game by which bishops have to play in granting or withholding consent: In the 70’s, almost all the pressure placed on bishops to consent to Spong’s election was placed by a few energized and engaged liberals in close proximity to them at home, and the rest of the House of Bishops - the very definition of a "collegial" environment. To withhold consent to someone like Spong meant that you’d catch hell from those few people, while not getting any support from the masses back home, because the masses back home didn’t know who Spong was and what he believed. To grant consent to someone like Spong meant that the masses back home would be still be silent, but you’d get pats on the back from a few energized and engaged liberals at home, as well as your colleagues in the House of Bishops.

I’m not attributing the failure of the HoB to reject Spong, and what will perhaps be its success in rejecting Forrester, entirely to technology, but I do think it has helped decisively tip the balance.

Today, if you're a TEC bishop, granting consent to someone like Forrester means that a whole lot more people back home are going to be asking a lot of difficult questions of you. For some, those questions will be accompanied by implied or overt statements about your suitability for office, and about their willingness to continue contributing their money. Now, all of sudden the pats on the backs of a few liberals in your clergy order and tiny activist groups isn’t so compelling, compared to the consternation of a lot more “rank and file” types back home in the pews.

This is certainly not to say that everyone who needs to be engaged is engaged; far from it. We have a long way to go. But what has happened here with Kevin Forrester did not happen with, for example, Gene Robinson. Robinson was a complete unknown to all but the most deeply engaged Episcopalians during his consents period; Forrester and what he believes, on the other hand, I think it can be safely said is known to a significantly larger number of people, most of whom were not engaged in this debate in 2003. What’s more, those people came to know about him through the same medium that we’ve used to transmit information to the people who make the decisions about whether or not he will be seated in the HoB. They came to this medium because Robinson’s election awakened them, energized them, and prompted them to seek out whatever information they could get, as quickly as they could get it, and this medium was where they found it.

What I find interesting is that if you think of the blogs as Node One, the folks in the pews as Node Two, and bishops and standing committees as Node Three, we’ve spent the past several years establishing communications between nodes One and Two - where there’s plenty of fellowship and commiserating. Now, we're beginning to establish communications between nodes Two and Three, where noticeably different things happen.

Nodes One and Two can ping-pong information back and forth all we want - and that’s what we did, with Oakwyse, with Ann Holmes Redding, now with Kevin Forrester - but until information can flow between nodes Two and Three, little gets done in the way of effecting change in the church’s official bodies and actions.

I think it’s accurate to say that, had Kevin Forrester been elected in the 70’s, he would have easily sailed through and been seated in the House of Bishops, from which, barring any major scandal or health problems, he would be happily retired and in his eighties by now. What would the parishioner in Tennessee or Texas or South Carolina have known about Forrester then? Probably nothing more than “There’s a fellow who’s seeking consent to his election, and he’s somehow involved in Buddhism.” And what would that parishioner have been told by his bishop or rector? Probably “Oh, he just uses a few meditation techniques to enhance his Christian prayer.” Or maybe there would have been relayed to the concerned parishioner some of the “explanation” Forrester attempted a couple of weeks ago. The parishioner would have been hard-pressed to counter that explanation, and to continue exerting any pressure on his bishop or standing committee without any additional, detailed information.

But look at what happened in 2009: Instead of rumor and vague, unsubstantiated reports, there in the parishioner’s hands - and as a result, in the bishops’ and standing committees’ hands - was a stack of documents, displaying Forrester’s naked syncretism in all its incoherent weirdness. I don’t mean to take away from any bishop’s independent analysis and decision to withhold consent - certainly some of them would have rejected Forrester without the efforts outlined here - but I think the community that has grown up around the Anglican blogs, the amount and accuracy of information it can collect, the speed with which it can collect it, and the way it can disseminate it in a highly-targeted way, made the difference.

Now - just imagine what we could do if we really got organized.
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Comments:

I don’t mean to be confrontational about this, but what exactly was the evidence against Spong in 1978-79? I haven’t read This Hebrew Lord or Spong’s other early books, but I do not get the impression that any of them caused any great controversy when they were published. It is also perhaps possible that reading them retrospectively would cast them in a more negative light than they were read at the time.

I think Forrester is to some degree suffering from fallout from the Redding and Melnyk cases, but it may also be the case that the kind of tampering he has done with the liturgy might have been even more unacceptable thirty years ago. It’s hard to say: remember that the BCP itself was just getting its second pass through GC in 1979. My opinion only, of course.

[1] Posted by C. Wingate on 04-27-2009 at 03:59 PM • top

Greg, will your comment #139 there also be getting its own thread?

[2] Posted by kyounge1956 on 04-28-2009 at 08:37 AM • top

Hi C. Wingate. Thew Forrester does not hold the Christian faith. He does not believe in the Trinitarian God revealed in scripture: Father, Son and Holy Spirit and instead believes in a panentheistic Hegelian “trinity” which includes “The Source” and “Us” and “The power that helps us give back to the Source”

So whether Melnyk or Spong preceded him or not—he is unqualified to hold episcopal office and, in fact, unqualified to serve in any ordained capacity in the Church.

[3] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 04-28-2009 at 08:51 AM • top

kyounge,

Yes - I hope to find some time in a couple of hours to polish it up and post it.

[4] Posted by Greg Griffith on 04-28-2009 at 09:13 AM • top

Fr. Kennedy, you are vehemently agreeing with me, as far as that goes. The last thing I want in a bishop is someone who tampers with the liturgy in the name of questionable, much less heretical, theology. My point as far as the Melnyk/Redding connection is concerned is that I think those incidents (and particularly the Melnyk episode, in which there was a similar issue of incriminating documents on the web) have sensitized matters. And if Spong had written in the mid 1970s what he has written of late (say, from his theses onward) I am quite confident that he could not have gotten the needed consents. What I’m wondering, though, is what Spong did write in those days which was supposed to warn that he shouldn’t have been consecrated. If Forrester fails to get his consents, that is of course a good thing; but it says something about the church’s inability to discipline bishops who go off the rails.

[5] Posted by C. Wingate on 04-28-2009 at 09:22 AM • top

Greg, you are totally correct…vicky gene woke us up.  And the actions of TEC during the past few years forced involvement or face total loss.  They drew the line in the sand.  I regularly send posts from Stand Firm in Faith to friends who have still not “gotten involved” in hopes of educating them as to a point that they will take action.  For many, still within TEC, a Bishop is an unapproachable “saint”.  It is important for all of us to go to them for explanations of their actions and decisions.  (and the explanations need to line up with Biblical truth)

[6] Posted by ewart-touzot on 04-28-2009 at 10:24 AM • top

Again, I don’t want to be confrontational about this, but I don’t recall anything about Robinson (other than his homosexuality) that emerged as an issue in the month leading up to GC in 2003. A look in David Virtue’s archives doesn’t turn up anything either. I think that’s a big difference: Forrester’s very basic heresies have activated opposition from a lot of bishops who hold to liberal positions on sexuality. I constantly see people trying to assert that the “high church unitarian” and pro-homosexual parties are essentially the same, but I don’t think that’s so, and I think the pattern of voting here shows that this isn’t so. (I must say that the vote is proving useful in collecting a list of suspects.) Now, it may be that VGR holds to Unitarian views, but as I said I can’t find evidence to that effect, much less whether anyone cared.

[7] Posted by C. Wingate on 04-28-2009 at 03:50 PM • top

It seems like a long time ago, but I do remember certain allegations made by David V. I also remember people who were less concerned about the homosexuality per se, and much more concerned that he was married (he had made certain vows in church), had children, and was divorced. Furthermore, he had sworn to uphold the doctrine, discipline and worship of TEC - as it was at the time of his ordination.

Others were pointing out that the homosexuality was not the problem, but that he was in a presumably active sexual relationship with another man, rather than celibate.

Back then, Stand Firm and the other conservative sites did not have their electron microscopes sharply focused. These days, I think that anyone running for bishop had better be sure that his laundry is very, very clean. We can expect a level of scrutiny unprecedented in ecclesiastical history - at least as rigorous as Roman Catholic vetting for canonization.

The KTF episode is a good example. He should have never stood for nomination, and someone needs to decide whether he should even remain in Holy Orders. Furthermore, he needs to withdraw gracefully from the process…

I don’t think the Vee-ger had started going around saying he has been getting messages of support from God. That, of course, is tantamount to claiming that he is a prophet, bringing to mind the words of Deut 13:1-4.

[8] Posted by Ralph on 04-28-2009 at 05:18 PM • top

The refusal of consent to Kevin Thew Forrester (if that’s what is going to happen) isn’t as important as Greg Griffith thinks.  It doesn’t mean there will never be another unorthodox bishop in TEC.  Forrester is/was a particularly weak candidate for the episcopacy, partly because he is an actual Buddhist (and it’s hard to argue, though some have, that an adherent of another religion should be a Christian bishop), and partly because his Qur’an reading in church probably alienated a constituency which might not have disapproved of his connections to the gentle and reasonable Buddhists.  His election process was also questionable, and even those who care more about procedure than religion are worrying about that.

That’s three different strikes against him.  I’m speculating, but I don’t think the baptism liturgy and the Trinity Sunday sermon, even between them, could have sunk him.

[9] Posted by Soapy Sam on 04-28-2009 at 06:02 PM • top

I didn’t ever hear Greg Griffith say or imply that a refusal to consent to would mean that “there will never be another unorthodox Bishop in TEC.” He just spoke strongly against K T Forreter being a Bishop and urged people to make their concerns known.

[10] Posted by FenelonSpoke on 04-28-2009 at 06:17 PM • top

Soapy,

FenelonSpoke is right - I never said that there would never be another unorthodox bishop in TEC - but my reading of your comment doesn’t lead me to think that’s what you really meant, so I don’t think there’s any disagreement between us there.

You describe Forrester as a weak candidate, and to some extent you’re right, but in many ways Forrester is a very strong candidate; it just depends on where you’re coming from.

Certainly if you’re Bruce MacPherson or John Howe, Forrester is a weak candidate. But if you’re a member of the ruling progressive elite of TEC, Forrester is a pretty strong candidate: Young(ish), attractive, charismatic in the little “c” sense, and a Buddhist. Face it - when the PB bemoans “putting God in a small box,” and the dean of the NatCat gleefully hosts lunatic Ayatollahs from Iran, being a Buddhist definitely wins you points with the Big Men on Campus, to say nothing of the droves of “progressives” throughout the church (although it is a little odd that Integrity, Via Media and similar groups haven’t taken a more vocal stand in his support).

But as I said before, I think that with VGR you had two factors that are very different here: One, you didn’t have anywhere near as large and active a community of orthodox Anglicans keeping an eye on so many things; and two, I think a lot of bishops who supported VGR see homosexuality as cutting into the church’s doctrinal fat, whereas with Genpo they see his Buddhism as cutting into the church’s theological muscle and bone. These two factors, while independent, are also tightly interwoven: it’s always easier to cut into fat than bone and muscle, but having the attention of thousands and thousands more engaged and informed lay people focused on you makes it harder to do either. So yes, voting against the Buddhist is perhaps easier to do - even in the culture of TEC - than voting against the gay guy, but voting FOR either one is harder to do now than it was 6 years ago.

I do see your point inasmuch as it implies that we have not really had a controlled test of this theory. The real test will come, no doubt, within the next 6-12 mos, after GenCon has thrown off the shackles of The Most Horrible Resolution Ever to be Passed by Any Legislative Body Anywhere at Any Time in Human History™ (B033) and we have another full-on gay priest elected as bishop somewhere. Whether he/she is approved or rejected, I have a feeling it will relegate Genpo to a footnote of church history.

[11] Posted by Greg Griffith on 04-28-2009 at 07:06 PM • top

Fair enough, Greg Griffith (11);  and I didn’t mean to misrepresent you.  I also think you’re right about ‘a footnote of church history.’

[12] Posted by Soapy Sam on 04-28-2009 at 08:42 PM • top

Well, yes, there was a dramatic moment where two allegations were made prior to the House of Bishops considered consent at that General Convention in 2003.
A fairly balanced reporting can still be read here: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/augustweb-only/8-4-21.0.html
But that is not to C.Wingate’s point, is it.

And, no, Gene would not consider himself, at least, Unitarian, and when (I) asked him to articulate his Christian faith he did so clearly, concisely and without starting by saying, “Well, now that’s a complicated question..” In fact, Gene’s ability to express his Christian faith actually worked to bring the bible to the foreground in the liberal wing of the Church, and have to deal with it (not too well, but, hey, there it is!).
There were and are obvious holes in Gene’s biblical grounding and beliefs as evidenced in his personal and public life and behavior, one area that finally caught up to him.  And a failure in biblical discipleship should be good enough to withhold consent.  Or file a presentment.

C. Wingate, this is not a simple picture to paint.  Spong, in line with Pike, but more in line with Tillich and Paul Van Buren, and the seminary training he got in Bultmann and others in the demythologizing of Christianity, found +John A.T. Robinson (Honest to God)finally as someone who would help him start to put it all together, so much so that he saw himself as carrying the Robinson mantle, and then as God’s emissary alone (after Robinson died) in bringing necessary change to a monolithic religious enterprise, the Church.  With that in mind, all of the seeds that finally blossomed into complete rejection of inspired scripture, along with the basics of the makeup of the Creeds, which all became most evident to the rest of the Church AFTER he was elected a bishop, all those seeds were laid early in his ordained ministry and training and were part of his belief-set.
  At the time prior to his election in Newark, he had become quite the media sensation and controversialist, and all by making use of a basic Episcopalian educational tool, open inquiry.  When he got into debates after the publishing of his book, This Hebrew Lord, while Rector of St. Paul’s, Richmond, it was clear to many who heard him that a budding heretic was on the loose.  However, those who were paying attention also knew that the Episcopal Church in the late 1970’s had already posted 15 years of decline, and what was really needed was someone who could speak to surrounding culture and draw people in.
  Obviously, open inquiry is not heresy.  But the teaching within certainly can.  If “monism” is a heresy, and not simply dismissed as “only a particular world-view”, then even Spong’s first book, Honest Prayer, displays that monism and the need to redefine everything into personal enlightenment, rather than, or perhaps in place of salvation offered by a transcendent God who has made Himself vulnerable through incarnation - a concept rejected by Spong as unintelligible, irrational, unreasonable, and crafted.
  I think Greg’s points about the availability of high-speed communication, along with immediate access, would not have served Spong well in his nomination for bishop of Newark, just by the publication of his book “Honest Prayer” alone.  That book would have sparked people to go look or listen to sermons, other writings, etc., and they would have found not just a priest who was assisting a Church with scriptural, ecclesiastical and moral malaise to wake up (as was the charismatic renewal), but would have found the deeper beliefs of a priest who could not ethically utter the vow, which he did and justified for himself, to defend the Faith once delivered.

Now having said that, what is causing many bishops, especially the “liberals” to withhold consent is not just reading the sermons and the liturgies.  Yes, they are reading those, but then they are, by their own testimony, calling Kevin and talking to him, asking questions.  The result of those conversations is the sending in of their notice of withholding consent.  This can’t be slid off as “well, it’s being taken out of context”, or “it’s just semantics.”  He is losing consents by his own witness.
  Every bishop who has already sent in their consent approval, every Standing Committee that has voted to do the same, should take that reality to heart and have their own phone conversations with Kevin Thew Forrester in case they haven’t already.  And then contact their colleagues who have withheld consent, and compare notes.  Perhaps by this kind of open inquiry, you will change your mind.

[13] Posted by Rob Eaton+ on 04-29-2009 at 02:33 AM • top

I do not in any way want to defend Spong. I was too young (and too Presbyterian smile ) in 1974 to pick up any warning signs about him; I wasn’t really aware of him until he came out with Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism, which I found to be a profoundly stupid book lacking in anything Anglican. My abbreviated reading of Tillich put me in the same boat as Lewis and Mascall responding to Robinson: I didn’t accept the premise that there was something wrong with the traditional rhetorical figures of Christianity, so I was not motivated to accept Tillich’s “improvements”. I found the radical feminists much more threatening, since for the beginning they wanted to change the liturgy to prevent “bad” gender thoughts. Now, by 1982 Urban Holmes was moved to specifically mention Tillich as someone whose theology was incompatible with Anglicanism, but I sense perhaps that the level of antipathy had risen by then.

I think far more damaging to Forrester is that he seems to have made some effort to present a false picture of himself. I personally don’t think you can really be truly Buddhist and an orthodox Christian at the same time, but there is some utility in bouncing Buddhist ideas off Christian theology (whereas for instance I think there is little or no point in looking into Hinduism). From what I know of Buddhism, the phrase “lay ordination” doesn’t mean anything to me, but we can keep going. What did come out pretty quickly, and this is where the internet betrayed him, was that his exceptionally strong interest in Buddhism wasn’t all there was to his syncretism. Again, this is a parallel to what happened to Bill Melnyk: there were documents lying around which showed that the public picture of him was false, and then there was a scurrying around to hide all these things because they told too much. Spong, I think, got brownie points for being so forthright a heretic.

I’m also wondering if the procedural irregularities (to say the least) and his close ties to KJS are working against Forrester. There have been some rumblings before this from the “schism is worse than heresy” center over KJS’s high-handed (ab)use of the canons; this gives those people a safe outlet to send her a rebuke.

[14] Posted by C. Wingate on 05-01-2009 at 04:03 PM • top

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