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More On Katherine Ragsdale

Sunday, May 3, 2009 • 2:48 pm


In March Katherine Ragsdale was appointed to head Episcopal Divinity School. One magazine thought there must be some mistake as surely the dean of a theological college could not really have called abortion a blessing. One can only assume the writer is not a veteran of the Episcopal Wars.
Ragsdale is a member of the board of NARAL Pro-Choice America and for eight years chaired the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Rights. Nevertheless, calling abortion "holy work" seemed so over-the-top that WORLD called Ragsdale to ask whether a fanatic had taken her name in a variant of identity theft. Ragsdale acknowledged that the words were hers and that she still identified abortion with "blessing." She said, though, that she had pulled that speech off her website because it was "creating an occasion for sin" as readers posted critical comments. She also said she's "really busy and can't keep up with the comments coming in."

How has Ragsdale developed her position? I looked on her website at sermons that remain. In 2005 she asked rhetorically why pro-lifers did not look at pro-aborts "with tolerance and respect." She then said, "The answer to that question is that in this arena it is women who must make the final decision and that you do not respect the moral agency (or full personhood) of women simply because we are women." Convenient: It's not about life; it's about sexism.

But go back further, to an Easter sermon in 2003 when she said that the Resurrection may never have happened. (Paul wrote to the Corinthians, "If Christ has not been raised, our faith is futile . . . we are of all people most to be pitied.") And go back further to Easter 2002: "The suffering and death of Jesus, according to the theory of the Atonement, pays for our sins and buys our salvation. It's an interesting theory, but not one that I find compelling."

Some denominations have cracked open on issues of homosexual ordination, but the fissure began long before, when clerics put God on trial and chose which doctrines they found compelling. In 2003, proclaiming her lesbianism, Ragsdale took aim at those who say that "we can't help being gay—the old take pity, have mercy, argument. You know, the one that concludes with a plaintive—who would choose this? Let me answer that with three words: Me! Me! Me!"

The tragedy of abortion is bad enough, but the origin of the tragedy, and so many others of our time, emerges from worship not of Christ but of "me, me, me." Katherine Ragsdale may show this tendency in a heightened form, but all of us display it to some degree. May God have mercy on her, on her students, and on all of us.
The entire article can be found here.

Hat tip: Prophet Micaiah
33 Comments • Print-friendlyPrint-friendly w/commentsShare on Facebook
Comments:

“Me! Me! Me!”

The revisionist’s Holy Trinity.

[1] Posted by st. anonymous on 05-03-2009 at 03:19 PM • top

Jackie, was it really a few months ago, or just a few weeks ago that Ragsdale was appointed?  (By the way, you may want to correct the “month’s” as well as the “magainze.”)

Oh, for the days when Doug LeBlanc was writing for World Magazine!  He would’ve been familiar enough with the “Episcopal Wars,” eh?  Still it’s a periodical worth subscribing to.

[2] Posted by Jill C. on 05-03-2009 at 03:22 PM • top

Besides having a Holy Trinity of Me, Myself, and I - AND being a self-avowed, practicing, and unrepentant homosexual - AND being even more theologically bankrupt than other practicing homosexuals, AND being morally bankrupt, she doesn’t have the academic qualifications to be dean of anything, not even an undergraduate college.

Other than that, I’m sure she’ll be fine.

It will be interesting to see how the Association of Theological Schools views her appointment from the last criterion.

[3] Posted by Ralph on 05-03-2009 at 04:07 PM • top

oh, I so like this

WORLD called Ragsdale to ask whether a fanatic had taken her name in a variant of identity theft.

[4] Posted by j.m.c. on 05-03-2009 at 05:02 PM • top

For those unfamiliar with World magazine, it is an excellent bi-weekly publication of national and global news from a biblical perspective. World reports on all important news, but does not neglect news important to people of faith.  It’s like the Time magazine we always dreamed about.

Highly recommend a subscription. (http://www.worldmag.com) Christianity Today is also worth getting.

Ragsdale, on the other hand, is not worth getting…...

carrie

[5] Posted by cityonahill on 05-03-2009 at 05:25 PM • top

I guess haste does make waste.  Sorry the typo grabbed you.

[6] Posted by JackieB on 05-03-2009 at 05:33 PM • top

Now calm down. Just you see what happens when TEC is reformed from within by the Faithfull Remnants. Why they will just get rid of her after their Glorious Reformation and everything will be fine.

[7] Posted by teddy mak on 05-03-2009 at 05:34 PM • top

The Episcopal Church is on its way to the celestial black hole with leadership as in place now…

[8] Posted by Tom Dennis on 05-03-2009 at 05:36 PM • top

Jackie, you do good work!  Some of us are just too picky, I guess.  wink

World Mag’s Marvin Olasky has been around the block a time or two so I’m certain he’s quite familiar with the “Episcopal Wars.”  Methinks he was just being a Christian gentleman journalist, wanting to give the “lady” the opportunity to correct what he perceived might be a quote in error.

[9] Posted by Jill C. on 05-03-2009 at 05:49 PM • top

This is a great resource to forward to those asleep in the pews. I have already sent out the link to several parishioners.

[10] Posted by robroy on 05-03-2009 at 05:58 PM • top

Teddy Mak—you’re just crazy if you think that those of us who are staying are going to “reform” TEC.

Are you inside TEC or have you left?

[11] Posted by Sarah on 05-03-2009 at 06:05 PM • top

The Episcopal church is doing far more DAMAGE and HARM to Christianity that Jim Bakker, Tamy Faye, Jimmy Swaggart, Ted Haggard, Robert Tilton, Don Stewart, Pete Popoff, Joe Ratliff, and a dozen other lesser known Christian leaders and televangelists put together.

Just think of this: What does this church (TEc) have to offer a world that needs Christ?
A church that has neither respect nor reverence for the God is NO church.

Fr. Kingsley Jon-Ubabuco
Arlington, Texas

[12] Posted by Spiro on 05-03-2009 at 06:08 PM • top

This one is so well done - please write to (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) in congratulations for excellent journalism on such a worthy topic, and wish more for such on all matters TEC.

[13] Posted by j.m.c. on 05-03-2009 at 06:12 PM • top

...A church that has neither respect nor reverence for God is NO church.

With Ms Ragsdale in charge of “training and equiping” the clergy of this church, and with shameful (or, shall I say, shameless) words and deeds from TEc and her leadership, their wounding and damaging of Christianity, is only just beginning.

Lord have mercy!

Fr. Kingsley+

[14] Posted by Spiro on 05-03-2009 at 06:18 PM • top

If being squarely in the center of Piskie thought is any gauge of suitability, I think that Ms. Ragsdale is perfect for the job.

[15] Posted by Jeffersonian on 05-03-2009 at 06:44 PM • top

Spiro:

The Episcopal church is doing far more DAMAGE and HARM to Christianity that Jim Bakker, Tamy Faye, Jimmy Swaggart, Ted Haggard, Robert Tilton, Don Stewart, Pete Popoff, Joe Ratliff, and a dozen other lesser known Christian leaders and televangelists put together.

Really?  do you realize what a small footprint TEO has?  Not only smaller that many small denominations, they mainly serve as an example to orthodox Christians, who usually haven’t heard of this and merely look curious and say “Oh, but they aren’t really Christian.”  Sometimes they serve as a sermon illustration. They just don’t cast a very big shadow, fortunately.  The believers won’t be attracted to TEO and the non-believers can always go to a robust bigger denomination like the PCUSA, United Church of so and so, etc.  The real damage is to those trapped who don’tknow what is up and especially their children.  Most of the poison is very sweet and pleasant so that is the danger.  Other than that, many Episcopalians are individually good citizens, make good neighbors and friends,  solid members of various organizations and clubs, usually like good music and literature,  but spiritual impact?  I don’t think so.  Of course this is the opinion of a wilderness prophet out of the mainstream IMHO

[16] Posted by PROPHET MICAIAH on 05-03-2009 at 07:12 PM • top

Calling TEC “Christianity” these days is like calling licorice “chocolate”.  Nice name but just does not qualify.  There are many, many Christians IN TEC, and the “official” theology as printed in the BCP is decidedly “Christian”.  But the take-over heirarchy is making sure that goes away soon, too.

[17] Posted by Goughdonna on 05-03-2009 at 08:31 PM • top

Sadly, Ragsdale sounds like a shoo-in for a future episcopate in TEc. God help the faithful that get her foisted on them.

[18] Posted by mike458 on 05-03-2009 at 08:41 PM • top

Ms Ragsdale appointment is getting attention in down under, too. Here we have an article from the Australian version of Christianity Today:

http://au.christiantoday.com/article/twisted-clergy-deception-and-abortion/6166-2.htm

[19] Posted by robroy on 05-03-2009 at 10:25 PM • top

Christiantoday in Australia is part of the English http://www.christiantoday.com It is not a version of Christianity Today. Both are evangelical, and easy to confuse!

[20] Posted by obadiahslope on 05-03-2009 at 10:32 PM • top

Ragsdale acknowledged that the words were hers and that she still identified abortion with “blessing.” She said, though, that she had pulled that speech off her website because it was “creating an occasion for sin” as readers posted critical comments. 

How kind of her to think of others.

[21] Posted by Derek Smith on 05-03-2009 at 10:49 PM • top

As usual I find myself in wholehearted agreement with robroy and his practical comment #10.  This is indeed a very useful short article that could prove very eye-opening to many people in the pews in TEC who still somehow don’t get what all the fuss is about. 

I think it helps that it comes from an outside observer who is shocked at the blatant level of flagrant, willful defiance of biblical teaching and traditional Christian moral values on the part of an Episcopal leader.  And that sense of shock or amazement at Ms. Ragsdale’s pride over her disbelief and rebellion against God’s ways that she ought to be ashamed of will probably resonate with many of those laypeople who remain blissfully ignorant of just how bad things really are in their beloved Episcopal Church.  His shock and outrage will help trigger theirs and validate it.

I suggest that it would be a good idea for many of us to follow robroy’s example and give wide distribution to this expose of the absurdities and blashphemies of the new dean of EDS.  Extremists like Katherine Ragsdale or Kevin Forrester are such easy targets that we should make full use of their follies in illustrating just how far TEC has fallen into theological error, moral confusion, and spiritual darkness.

David Handy+

[22] Posted by New Reformation Advocate on 05-04-2009 at 06:27 AM • top

#18, I don’t think she would get consent, if elected bishop of anywhere in TEC. There are just too many stains on her record, even for TEC. (A look at the KTF vote count as of this AM suggests that she might get consent from 5 Standing Committees and 11 Bishops.)

I suspect that if Stand Firm and the Internet had been around when Jack Spong was elected, he also wouldn’t have gotten consent.

No one individual is going to reform TEC, but a lot of individuals working together through the power of the Internet have already done more than anyone might guess.

[23] Posted by Ralph on 05-04-2009 at 07:21 AM • top

The TEC is closer to Goth (term for teenagers culturally hooked on pop culture) than they are to Christianity. All Christianity for them must be filtered through pop culture to see if it is reasonable (makes sense to their feelings and senses and is a tune they can dance to). Their ego is of god for they are part of god they reason. Whatever their ego allows is holy, sacred and “modern day Christ-like”.  Narnia is just over the crest of the next hill. Gatsby believed in the green light, the orgastic future that receeds before us. It eluded us then but that’s no matter for tommorrow we will run faster, strech out our arms father until one fine morning. An so we beat on, like boats in the current borne back ceaselessly into our past.

[24] Posted by ctowles on 05-04-2009 at 08:41 AM • top

“Occasion for sin…”
So the big sin here is disagreeing with her?

[25] Posted by GoodMissMurphy on 05-04-2009 at 09:35 AM • top

Creating an occasion for sin or exposing a sin?

[26] Posted by oscewicee on 05-04-2009 at 09:38 AM • top

PROPHET MICAIAH: Re#16,

I opined, (in my posting #12) in part, that:
The Episcopal church is doing far more DAMAGE and HARM to Christianity that Jim Bakker, Tamy Faye, Jimmy Swaggart, Ted Haggard, Robert Tilton, Don Stewart, Pete Popoff, Joe Ratliff, and a dozen other lesser known Christian leaders and televangelists put together.

And you responded with:
“Really?  do you realize what a small footprint TEO has?........”

Well, The Episcopal church may not be high in terms of numbers, but it sure is very, very high in terms of prestige. The fact of who controls the National Cathedral, and fact that this denomination has produced more US presidents than any other are no small matters.

More importantly, in the case of the fallen televangelists; they are “fallen”, disgraced, remorseful (in most cases), and are regarded by almost everyone within and outside of Christianity as what Christian leaders OUGHT NOT be. But with the Episcopal church, the apostate leaders and the false teachings and pronouncements of this church are celebrated and even “blessed” by this church as what Christianity is, or ought to be.  Therein lies the huge difference.

So, you have, on one hand, a bunch of preachers and teachers (mostly self-proclaimed, and usually not “ordained” in the traditional Christian manner) who have failed to live up to moral Christian teachings, and who acknowledge their sins, and in some cases, are repentant, AND on the other hand, you have a supposedly mainline Christian church (with a much longer history, greater honor and prestige, etc.) teaching, celebrating and “blessing” what is evil, unholy, and unChristian- thereby doing more damage to Christianity.

In a nutshell: Jim Bakker came out and confessed that he had sinned against God by having sex with a woman who is not my wife.
The Right Rev.  (Bishop) Gene Robinson (ordained priest, and consecrated bishop in Apostolic succession - take it or leave it)  now crisscrosses the globe, proudly proclaiming the “blessedness” of his intimate sexual activities with a man who is not his wife. On top of that Robinson and his cohorts are heaping insults and abuses on any Christian who dares call into question his false teaching and unchristian lifestyle.

Additionally, the Episcopal church is supporting and promoting abortion as a “blessing”, and appointing the priestesses of abortion-on-demand to high places. The “blessing” of same-sex union and marriages and the promotion of sinful heterosexual lifestyles are just fine with the Episcopal church. This church does not accept the idea of restrain and holiness.

Theologically, the Episcopal church wants the world to believe Christ is just one of the many ways to God, and that Christ did not die for the sins (of course, there is no sin) of the whole world.

I think this clarification helps.


Fr. Kingsley Jon-Ubabuco
Arlington Texas

[27] Posted by Spiro on 05-04-2009 at 11:11 AM • top

Well, The Episcopal church may not be high in terms of numbers, but it sure is very, very high in terms of prestige.

Ah, would that it were true.  Granted the “ordained” charliatans seem to have been taken care of, but they still did millions of dollars of damage and caused the lost to point to them as what “Christians” are like.  we still are suffering from the reprecussions of that now.  Many of them should be in jail and some did go inside for a while.  Their legacy lives on.
    Out here in the field, I don’t know of many who even consider what TEO does in the present time.  You can’t live off your past heritage.  No one even looks at the likes of VGR except as some sort of wierd example.  Those guys are doing great damage, but by and large it is only to the little group that are trapped inside TEO.  Granted they might be harming the AC, but not much.  The value of them as a sermon illustration out weighs the harm they are doing outside TEO.  I have to be careful to let my friends even know that I have Episcopal friends.  They usually snicker and smile.  They would never understand why I would waste my time on SFIF since everyone knows TEO is in the backwaters of Christiandom and not a factor. They usually just say,
“Oh, you mean that Homosexual church.”  Wish it wern’t so, but that is the perception out here in “radio land” and among the solid believers.  IMHO

[28] Posted by PROPHET MICAIAH on 05-04-2009 at 02:05 PM • top

“Sadly, Ragsdale sounds like a shoo-in for a future episcopate in TEc. God help the faithful that get her foisted on them.

[18]

She’ll probably be on the short list when Shaw (MA) retires in a few years, but as Ralph points out in [23] she probably could not garner the necessary consents.

[29] Posted by The Little Myrmidon on 05-04-2009 at 04:38 PM • top

The TEC is closer to Goth (term for teenagers culturally hooked on pop culture)

Not that this is relevent, but no, that isn’t what Goth means.  Goth refers to a very specific subculture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth_subculture

[30] Posted by AndrewA on 05-04-2009 at 04:53 PM • top

How kind of her to think of others.

On this side of the womb, maybe.

On the other side, not so much.

[31] Posted by The Pilgrim on 05-04-2009 at 05:16 PM • top

Want to know what they say out here about TEC?  “That’s that queer church, isn’t it?”  “Oh, you mean THEM, don’t you?”  “Oh, THEM!”

[32] Posted by Cennydd on 05-05-2009 at 10:23 AM • top

I have read all of the previous postings here and I just wanted to add that the very sad and shameful part of the teachings coming out of TEC are going to lead unbelievers (sinners) to believe that being a Christian simply means that you acknowledge that there is a God and that Jesus was a man who died on a cross and that’s all there is to it.  And then live any way you choose to live.
Jesus said to be aware that in the last days there would be many false prophets who come in His name. 
We, as true believers, need to begin standing in the gap through intercessory prayer for these false prophets/teachers and also for those who fall for these lies.  We need to begin praying for God to grant them mercy and to reveal himself to them in a way that will grip their hearts and draw them to repentance - true repentance.
I totally disagree with and am sickened by what Ms. Ragsdale said and believes, but just think of what a victory for our side (God’s side) if she had a true encounter with Jesus and stood up and said that she was wrong and that she had finally met Jesus as her saviour.
PRAY, PRAY, PRAY—that is the only way to counter this attack by Satan.
When we begin to pray and stand in the gap for unbelievers, well, let’s just say that Satan gets very nervous.
Remind him that he is already defeated and start enforcing that defeat on him!!!
We are enforcers of the work that was accomplished on the cross and by Jesus’ resurrection.
And then give God all the glory!

[33] Posted by TerriD on 05-07-2009 at 12:56 PM • top

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