DioNC: Vestryman Charged with Molesting 5-Year Old Son, Offering Him to Strangers for Sex

May he be sentenced to the fullest extent of the law and may his conscience bother him so badly that he cannot sleep for fear of nightmares of the damage, hurt, and pain he has caused to these poor innocent children who cannot defend themselves against a monster predator such as he is.

This person seems to be devoid of any moral, ethical, and good human feelings.

Pray that God will bring for these children to a safe, loving environment.  And that He will heal them of any residual effects.

The fact that this guy does this when his partner is away is revealing.  Things done in secret will be brought into the Light.

Pray this guy gets help and healing himself.  He needs to be removed from society.

I have no need to read details; the info you provided is more than enough to make me feel quite ill.
I wonder if this guy signed the faculty statement against the Duke Lacrosse players a coupe years ago.

In case you’re not aware, ICUii is probably shorthand for I See You Short Eyes - “short eyes” being the prison term for a child molester

Little Myrmidon,
Thanks for that education. I knew what the “ICU” meant but had no idea about the “ii”. Very interesting.

ICUii is “I see you, too.”  The program itself is readily available and not connected to pedohilia other than its illegal use.

Many homosexual as well as heterosexual couples adopt children from races outside of their own and are to be applauded for so doing. However, more often than reported it seems these days, we encounter such sick pedophilic scenarios as these.Is this to say that homsexuals are incapable of reaing their children “in the admonition of the Lord.” I do not think so. Or would we say that there is a KKK agenda when a heterosexual couple who are white adopts A child from a race different from theirs. Once again , I do not think so.Perhaps what is needed is a more thorough backround check by our State and local agencies concerning these and all types of adoptions. ANd it seems that the “informant"in this matter only told so he/or she could have an opportunity to get a lesser sentence not because of any personal integrity. May they get more for time and punishment for such a stunt. The Feds have to do what is neccessary to get info. And we should thank them for be as cunning and wise as they are. Hopefully the long road of racial harmony which both black and white persons have died to obtain and maintain will not become ruined because of the sick indviduals who commit these kinds of heinous crimes. Tis why we must watch as well as pray .

What a lost and fallen world we live in. Certainly there is heterosexual sexual depravity, but because homosexuality is already “crossing the line”, there is a segment which can only be described as evil (in a survey, 8% of homosexuals report having greater than 300 sexual partners).

Calhoun,

This is not a story about racial harmony. This is a story about a gay man on the vestry of an Episcopal church, who adopted two poor boys, repeatedly molested at least one of them, and offered him with “no limits” to strangers over the internet for sex.

This story stands exactly zero chance of “ruining the road to racial harmony,” because it has nothing to do with the road to racial harmony.

Calhoun,

You seem to be over-focusing on the “racial” aspect of this horrific crime.  (And I’m not even addressing the gay issue as the church to which he belongs denies that is sin.)  The point is an evil deviant adopted children to abuse based on his perverted desires, i.e. black children.  His desire was for access to African-American babies to slake his sick sexual desires. 

He goes to an “inclusive” TEC church, which jumped on his identity as a homosexual adopted parent of black children to name him to a committee on racism (can’t you just imagine all the deference paid to his every opinion—a gay man who adopts black children!!!  So good, so pure, so lovingly inclusive!  We gotta get him on the committee!)

This is not about race, except as it is used to bolster an individual’s or church’s claims as a moral authority “against racism”.  Don’t you see that no one looked any closer in promoting this guy to leadership? 

You’re right this stuff happens all to often.  BTK is another such example of an evil person being promoted to leadership.  It is a stark reminder that we should investigate VERY CAREFULLY those in our leadership. Those of us who “think we stand take heed lest we fall” as admonished in 1 Cor 10:12.

In the civil world it is bad enough, I grant you, but we are to have the Holy Spirit to guide us.  These churches did not—and this is the result.  Of course, everyone will circle the wagons—it’ll have nothing to do with him being gay, etc—and be more focused on preserving their image as good and pure and inclusive instead of proclaiming a day of fasting, prayer and repentance for their failure to preach a Gospel which would have expelled this evil-doer from their midst.

So, now, will MSM apply the same absurd standard of “moral responsibility” to the TEC LGBT establishment that was applied to the pro-life movement for Dr. Tiller’s murder? [key crickets chirping sound effect]

As others have already pointed out, there are abusive straight people just as there are abusive LGBT.  But what this case points out is that LGBT is not the higher plane of existence that TEC is trying to sell.  It is not inherently spiritual, magical or whatever else the new, reverse stereotype posits.  And all of the stuff about the priority of “exploring one’s sexual identity” shows how far we’ve come from the traditional view of marriage and family.  LGBT and straight alike are all about individual gratification.  That’s a culture bound point of view and a betrayal of the Gospel, not a “New Thing of the Spirit.”

James Manley, I was taking a guess as to what the “ii” might stand for.  Thanks for clarifying what it actually means.

Assuming that the man arrested is also the man on the vestry, it is curious that his religious position has not been featured in any news story.  It could be that his affiliation with Duke University is simply a bigger hook upon which to hang the story.  But I find it hard to believe that an equivalent association with a conservative church would not be prominently featured.  If I were cynical about the ideologically monochromatic drones that make up journalism, I would suspect a deliberate effort to suppress <s>inconvenient</s> <s>unwelcome</s> irrelevant details <s>not helpful to the Cause</s>
Assuming that the man arrested is also the man on the vestry, and I don’t think that has been absolutely established as of yet.

carl

carl,

His email address as listed on the vestry page is at Duke University.

Lord have mercy
Christ have mercy
Lord have mercy

If this guy does turn out to be a leader in a “progressive” church that’s about all the right “causes”, it becomes a good illustration of James 2:10.  If your claim to justification before God is that you generally tried to follow your version of social justice Jesus, you better be just in all of your actions.

This is the other side of Matthew 7:21.  Progressives are quick to point out that saying the right thing about God(the basic definition of “orthodoxy”)isn’t enough without what they like to call “justice.”  Well, this case shows that “justice” is inadequate without, well, perfect justice.

At the end of the day, all we have to hold up to the Father is Christ crucified.  That is our defense in the day of judgment.  The case under investigation in this thread is good counsel for revisionists - be careful what you throw out of your gospel if it sticks you with the burden of self-justification.  None of us are up to it, even if we support a list of good “causes.”  The Holy Spirit’s “advocacy” (ironic, given the name of the parish in this story) is to bring the crucified and risen Lord alongside to make our case - not to stir up an addiction to self-justifying cause/hobbies.

Fidela is right on here.  Carl, locally the Duke University connection would definitely be the big attention-getter.  Local TV and press are predictably left-wing, so going after such a nice “inclusive” ECUSA parish wouldn’t be their idea of a good thing to do.  The parish’s scrubbing of its website is a good indication that this is the same guy.

I was intrigued by the name, the Church of the Advocate.  The website is very, very Chapel Hill (Carrboro is essentially a professorial suburb).  All social justice and social gospel.  As to the “advocate,” their mission statement says

With our name, Church of the Advocate, we honor and serve God, through Christ who is our mediator and advocate before God, and through the Holy Spirit who is the advocate and comforter at work within and among us to bring about the love and will of God incarnate in the world.

This isn’t “our only mediator and advocate” from the traditional BCP.  From the material on the website, they’re clearly talking about the model advocate for “social justice” work.

Of course that doesn’t mean they knew they were being inclusive of a pedophile.  I assume not.  But Fidela is right.  Didn’t anybody see anything wrong at all?  Did this guy have a “partner,” and did they know him/her?  Were these children in the church nursery?  There was nothing unusual?

[14] Fidela

But the e-mail address listed on the Duke webpage is not identical to the e-mail address on the vestry listing.  frank.lombard@... vs flombard@...  It’s a small detail. Perhaps Duke gives out multiple e-mail addresses.  But so far, that is the only connection I have seen, and that does not (for me at least) breech the “beyond reasonable doubt” threshold.  Just saying “Be cautious, lest a horrific coincidence suddenly be discovered.”

carl

My prayers are for the two children. They will need much love and much healing to recover from this. I pray that they are not too severely damaged by this monster.

Church of the Advocate believes in the following (edited for some typos):

Practicing radical hospitality and inclusiveness, and building a worshipping community of comfort and challenge for people of every kind of household and all ages and stages of life and faith and doubt.

Hmm.  It looks as though there may, in fact, be limits to “radical inclusiveness” after all…

The “scrubbing” of the parish site is a direct reflection of TEC’s dysfunctional culture of secrecy and evasion.

Healthy communication for a parish committed to “justice” would be to make an immediate statement of what they do and don’t know, and publicly state their social justice values and how they intend to apply them in this case. 

Instead, they go into what will look like a cover-up, even if they didn’t know anything about the guy’s behavior.

Police mugshot here:

http://law.rightpundits.com/?p=564

Still surfing the Raleigh-Durham news sites.  So far, nothing about the church connection.  However, I do see the item about his having a gay partner who was out of town when the abuse occurred.  I was not aware that NC was allowing gay adoptions.

Carl,
Thanks for taking the ‘innocent until proven guilty’ tact on this, well actually the ‘not the accused until shown to be so’. 

Lets wait and IF he is convicted, then hang him.

Calhoun, if you truly feel that way, then why aren’t you demanding that GLAAD, the HRC and other homosexual activist organizations speak out loudly against NAMBLA and the Satcher Institute and Rev William Stayton (who is part of the Satcher Institute) who seek to legalize the molestation of children? Both GLAAD and some members of the HRC have actually sought to excuse pedophiles. GLAAD, for example, in the case of the trial of the 2 pedophiles who kidnapped, raped and murdered little Jeffrey Curley and another boy in Massachusetts, demanded that the charge of child rape be removed from the charges as they didn’t believe it was a crime.

Why is it that lesbian Representative Tammy Baldwin became hysterically angry, and refused to allow an amendment that would merely have included language in the hate crimes legislation, that stated that pedophiles were not considered a protected class under sexual identity? The language Baldwin used in the wording of the bill, which was co-written by staff from the pedophile friendly, Satcher Institute and Dr. David Satcher. Baldwin’s office refuses to say why, Baldwin sought out the Satcher Institute to help write the bill.

If homosexuals don’t support child molestation, then it’s incumbent on them to make that point very clear, as loudly as possible. People who do not support pedophilia have no problem speaking out against it, and demanding it be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. So, one wonders why the homosexual community is so silent on all this, in the face of the activists of their movement seeking to promote it as a normal behavior.

OK.  The fact that the Episcopal Church of the Advocate has removed his name from the vestry list today is definitive.  I saw it there many times this morning.  That isn’t a coincidence. 

carl

From the webpage before it was changed:“Christian Formation for Children and Adults
Contact:...
The Vicar:...
Christian Education for all ages will begin again in September, including Godly Play for 3-10 year olds before
the liturgy.”

Very scary. Does anyone know the statistics about how often there are more then one such person within a group or organization. Is this even remotely a safe place? Sickens…

Toss this creep in the slammer and leave him there….after he’s tried and convicted!  And make sure it’s for a long, long time….for the rest of his life.

Can anyone imagine the trust that these children had for this man? To be betrayed in such a manner is the most heinous crine. The pain these children suffered will last a lifetime. How can anyone behave in this manner?

Their motto:  “The Advocate - An Episcopal church
where tradition, liturgy and reason
meet compassion, justice and transformation.”

  “Tradition, liturgy, and reason?”  I don’t think that’s quite the way I learned it.  Something’s missing there.  Just let me think for a minute. I’m sure it will come to me…

I am a member of one of the original sponsoring parishes of the Church of the Advocate (Church of the Holy Family in Chapel Hill, the parish with the - I think - sole remaining theologically conservative rector in the Diocese of North Carolina), and I have known several of the members of Advocate for a long time.  Their vicar was on our staff as associate for several years before taking up this post, and while I disagree with her deeply on various theological matters, she is a person of integrity.  I have absolutely no information to back this up, but I suspect that, with the breaking scandal (and yes, he is innocent until proven guilty), the vicar asked or urged him to resign from vestry.

Hence, the removal of his name from the list of vestry members is not just by way of being a cover up.  One can debate whether or not the mission should post something about the matter, though.

(All this being said, Advocate’s theological and political commitments are deeply at variance with catholic Christianity, though firmly within the commitments the Diocese of North Carolina has made, and I regret our continued financial support under those circumstances.  But that opinion is not informed by the present scandal.  For those who are wondering, none of our family’s financial contribution to our parish goes to this mission or to the diocese or national office and General Convention.)

#20: “It looks as though there may, in fact, be limits to “radical inclusiveness” after all… “

Nah.  At least, not until it sees the light of day.  In private, all bets are off.

I’m suprised that after 33 comments no one yas yet chimed in to say that this man was NOT gay—he was a pedophile.  Those being entirely separate things, dontcha know…

Thrown into the slammer for the short exciting rest of his life may be the closest to justice we’ll see, but I’ll stick with my preference for hanging IF he is convicted.

Well, Marty, my question was forthcoming- I have yet to see anything in any of the news reports that reveals this man’s sexual orientation.  He was prostituting his 5 year old son to other pedophiles and he himself apparently molested this child.  Monstrous, monstrous, monstrous - and the maximum penalty for this crime is 20 years?

To #31
Todd, My mother is a member of St. Timothy’s in Raleigh. I thought it was the last theologically conservative parish in the diocese. I recently spoke to someone who has visited Holy Cross. From that coversation, I’m guessing they are evangelical while St Timothy’s I know is anglo-catholic. Is that correct?

RE: “and the maximum penalty for this crime is 20 years? . . . “

Agreed.

Hard for me to believe that this only merits 20 years.  I’m opposed to the death penalty—but life in prison would be appropriate.

renz,

You need to read those reports all the way through. He lives with his gay partner.

Has this Lombard person been convicted of anything yet? Or is he just accused?

tl;dnr

st. anonymous, Based on the photo in your link, it appears that the same person is shown in one of the photos in the Church of the Advocate’s Children and Youth page.  The top photo in the right sidebar.

Marty (33) - not to say he can’t be both.  something in the 2nd comment mentioned it happened “while his partner was out of town”?  No mention of M or F “partner.” 

My prayers are w/ the children he’s abused, that a loving Christ-filled counsellor will be found for them, becs it’s only the love of Christ that can bring them full healing and the ability to forgive him. 

As for what I’d like to see done to him, I’d be kicked off the site if I posted it.  Need to remember to pray for him, as well.  Not to come across as a weak kneed liberal or anything like that, but what happened to him that led to this?  It’s doubtful that he just grew up wanting to practice family perversion. Does that make what he’s accused of doing any more tolerable?  Not at all.  But he also needs the love of Christ to heal him.

Lord, have mercy.

All,

Lombard’s partner is a gay man - it’s mentioned at the top of page 4 in the affidavit, which is an account from the detective who was investigating Lombard.

[comment deleted—commenter is warned]

Would you send your children to an Episcopal Church to savor the inclusiveness??

#39, arrested, but not convicted (yet).

If the material in warrant affidavit is accurate, the conviction will be pretty much a slam dunk.

The Little Myrmidon, you keep repeating it but I’m not convinced.  Not that it isn’t true, but if it were “conventional wisdom” then penal segregation would quickly become policy.  It may be…

As for Fr. Geohgan, while he certainly got what he deserved, it seemed something of an abberation.  Either because it made the news when so many other prison-pedo-executions don’t, or because his killer was so completely justified—as a victim of priestly pedophilia.

In any case, if you insist on repeating it I may as well ask for evidence. Not that it bothers me in the least (lord forgive me).

Marty, pedophilia is NOT a “sexual orientation”. There are homosexual pedophiles, in fact, most incidents of child molestation are homosexual. I read that on the DoJ’s crime statistics page. At first I thought you were being sarcastic, but apparently not. Please don’t repeat the oft promoted denials of the fact by the homosexual community.

A bit off topic…would someone ask Mrs. Schori at what age Sunday School level does the Episcopal Church teach that Jesus affirmed homosexual relationships, citing Matthew 8:5-13, concerning the centurion and his servant?

#39, arrested, but not convicted (yet).

If the material in warrant affidavit is accurate, the conviction will be pretty much a slam dunk.

Okay. Thanks, Mousestalker.

So… this guy’s still innocent.

Man, some of the posts in this thread are downright scary. I shudder to think what some of y’all would do to this man were he actually found guilty.

Now, don’t get me wrong. That affadavit may well be the most disgusting thing I’ve read in the last five years. If a jury convicts Frank Lombard of these atrocities, I’ll be the guy in the back of the truck passing out the torches and the pitchforks.

But he hasn’t been convicted yet. We are a nation of laws, and in the eyes of the law he is still an innocent man. Let’s try to keep that in mind, shall we?

#38, Greg, thanks for the source, that’s all I was asking because the news reports from AP etc. made no mention of it one way or the other.  I had shied away from the affidavit because of your warning - the news was disturbing enough.  I just can’t wrap my brain around the absolute evilness of this.  As bad as it is to be an adult taking advantage of an adolescent, to molest a child, to molest a child placed especially in your care, to perform on line molesting the child to an audience and then to offer the child to other monsters…this man must not have a soul.

the news reports from AP etc. made no mention of it one way or the other.

Well, imagine that.

Myrmidon,

I’ve deleted two of your comments, and warned you once. Knock it off with the killed-in-prison talk.

See? SEE? This is the kind of thing that p***es me off, because it makes us sound like exactly the kind of knuckle-dragging bigots that our Worthy Opponents so desperately want us to be:

There are homosexual pedophiles

Of course there are. There are also blonde pedophiles, left-handed pedophiles, pedophiles who are allergic to seafood, and pedophiles who drive blue cars. What’s your point?

Perhaps you’re having trouble distinguishing between correlation and causation?

In fact, most incidents of child molestation are homosexual.

Bull***t.

By even the most generous estimates, homosexuals only make up 4-6% of the US population. To suggest that 6% of the nation’s population is committing >50% of of the nation’s child abuse simply beggars belief.

Why, even if there were 100% correlation between homosexuals and pedophiles (which I trust no one here is ignorant enough to believe) it STILL wouldn’t be possible. They would have to spend all their waking hours at it. There would be gangs of priapic queers roaming the countryside, looking for children to rape. I’m pretty sure we would have noticed them by now.

I read that on the DoJ’s crime statistics age.

No, you didn’t.

DoJ crime statistics do not record gender preference for offenders, because gender preference is irrelevant for law enforcement purposes.

——————————

I have no great affection for the gay community; most days I wish they would just go away. But I simply will not sit here and watch some troll try to smear them all as a bunch of child rapers. These kinds of remarks make us look as bad as they think we really are.

I have been baptized.

Athanasian,

Gay men molest children at a much higher rate than straight men. That much is pretty well beyond dispute. But since there are so few gay man compared to straight men, naturally the raw numbers of straight molestation incidents are going to be higher than gay incidents.

From what I can find in the way of actual statistics, children are at somewhere between 11-15 times greater risk of being molested by gay men than they are by straight men.

Does that mean “all gays are pedophiles”? Certainly not. But it does mean that the gay community has a big problem with pedophilia.

Oh yeah:

I have been baptized.

Of course, Greg.

In an equal distribution of gay / straight men, you’ll find a weird bulge in the curve toward the gay side on this one. Nobody disputes that. (But there’s that whole correlation / causation thing again, huh?)

But that’s totally different than trying to suggest that “most incidents of child molestation are homosexual”, which is patently absurd.

We have been baptized.

Athanasian,

On “most incidents,” agreed. On “most likely, by a factor of a dozen or so,” gays have a big, big problem.

Now we need to see how Rowan Williams figures he squares Dr. Stayton’s thinking on man-boy love, with incidents like this one; because let’s face it: This is exactly the kind of thing Stayton figures is a-ok, aside from manufactured condemnation on the part of close-minded bigots.

Greg,
Not to be a pessimist but I don’t think that Rowan Williams will give one moments thought to this or to Stayton. He will IMO, do as he has done for these many past years .....nothing.

Athanasian, I did read that on the DoJ website, when I was searching for statistics last Fall, on domestic violence statistics, and they did provide a background. Since that time I’ve read numerous references, including on the attempts of the gay lobby to force the APA to remove pedophilia from it’s list of deviancies, they started this attempt in the ‘70s, again in the ‘90s and started again in ‘03.

Are you aware that the average pedophile, until they are caught, arrested and monitered can have between 100 to 400 victims? That of the many studies conducted by psychiatrists, in the US, Canada, Europe and Australia, homosexual pedophiles have been found to be behind the majority of child molestation. 6% is a very high estimate of the homosexual community, it’s more between 2 - 3% of the population, btw.

Frank Lombard was baptized.  (I’m assuming.)

Looks like his parish ditched him pretty fast, though.

So boundaries are being established.

You can’t be a Buddhist and be a bishop.

You can’t have sex with your kid and be on the vestry.

Despite itself, TECUSACORP is having to set some standards. 

I see this as a good thing.  You have to start somewhere.

#61, wait until after GC09 to see if there are any TEO standards.  TEO may well have a Buddhist bishop by then, and there are a number of sexual-anything-goes resolutions to be adopted, which endorse everything by proscribing nothing.  Rampant, wild inclusiveness.

I did read that on the DoJ website

No, you didn’t. You couldn’t have, because such statistics simply do not exist. DoJ statistics do not include the offenders’ sexual preferences, because they are irrelevant for law enforcement purposes. Really. Straight bank robbers and gay bank robbers go to the same jail. (Although some of them manage to make even that ghastly orange jumpsuit look simply fabulous.)

Since that time I’ve read numerous references, including on the attempts of the gay lobby to force the APA to remove pedophilia from it’s list of deviancies, they started this attempt in the ‘70s, again in the ‘90s and started again in ‘03.

What on earth does that have to do with your assertion that most child abuse crimes are committed by homosexuals?

Are you aware that the average pedophile, until they are caught, arrested and monitered can have between 100 to 400 victims?

No, I’m not aware of it, because it’s simply not true.

Wait… what? Are you telling me that you honestly believe that the “average” gay child molester rapes at least 100 different children before he’s caught? Seriously?

That of the many studies conducted by psychiatrists, in the US, Canada, Europe and Australia, homosexual pedophiles have been found to be behind the majority of child molestation.

I’d be surprised if you could come up with even one. But it would have to be a real study. You know, like a real double-blind survey conducted by people who know about statistical analysis and stuff, not just some wharrrgarbl cut ‘n pasted from Free Republic.

6% is a very high estimate of the homosexual community, it’s more between 2 - 3% of the population, btw.

It’s hard to come up with reliable numbers. I’ve seen estimates as low as < 1% to somewhat higher than 10%. I used the 4-6% number because that was the most recent credible number I could find, based on exit polling from the 2008 election.

They actually single out the Duke University connection in the affidavit, that is probably why the press first picked it up and ran with it.  My guess is the local news never got around to finding out his Church affiliation.  But they will.

This will be a major story in the local news for a long, long time.  As it should be.  This is true evil on display, and it is the kind of thing that will ignite a local news feeding frenzy.

And I am sorry for the vicar in charge of this parish.  You are going to be tested.  Might I suggest that the first thing you do is renounce evil? 

Okay, okay.  Scrubbing the parish website was the first thing you did, so my advice is too late.  Might I suggest that the second thing you do is renounce evil?  It will help mitigate, at least somewhat, the fact that cover-up was your first reaction.

He’s only the accused at this point.
First we convict him in a nice fair trial.
Then we hang him and his co-conspirators if there are any….

Athanasian. you certainly have your panties in a bunch, don’t you.. such statistics do exist, just as the DoJ site breaks down statistics on domestic abuse, to include the fact that homosexual couples have a far greater rate of domestic violence in their relationships. Then you decide to twist my words, I didn’t say that most child abuse claims are committed by homosexuals, I said that a a greater percentage of homosexuals are pedophiles. The justice department does keep track of facts like that, and psychiatric researchers, study these issues. Don’t take my word for it, spend some time searching online, than you’re spending frothing at the mouth in denial.

Lastly, Athanasian, I’d also suggest you spend some time thinking about those poor little children. I’ve worked with abused teenagers, and while physical and emotional abuse are bad enough, sexual molestation, especially by a a parent, someone a child is supposed to be able to trust, can and does scar them for life. This will increase their likelihood of drug abuse and criminal behavior, they are more likely to commit suicide. For sure, they will have a tremendously difficult time being able to trust others. They will need a real, stable, committed family, real love, not TEC “love” redefined to mean sex, but real love, discipline and support, they will need real spiritual guidance, and psychological care to save their lives. I’ll be praying for those two little children tonight, if you’re capable of it, I’d like to suggest you do the same.

Still nothing on the Triangle websites about Lombard’s church affiliation, although the man in the photo referred to above at #40 certainly looks like him.

The soul-searching that parishes, including this one, should be engaging in is to ask if our prejudices blind us to clues we ought to see if we look.  It could be that these children seemed perfectly normal in every way although this abuse was going on from their infancies.  I suspect, though, that nursery workers and Sunday School teachers might have seen something unusual about the kids and their father if they had been able to get past the image of the gay man with adopted black children, something so wonderfully consistent with the parish’s defining beliefs.

The same would be true of conservative parishes.  If a perfect two-parent married family has children who display some unusual behavior, will we look at it objectively or be blinded by the image the family represents?

So often when one of these horrible stories breaks we hear people saying, “You know, I thought this-or-that was strange.”  We need to find a balance between unacceptable gossip and witch hunts on the one hand and a willingness to be aware of problems if we see them.

FYI. St. Timothy’s in Raleigh may be the only remaining orthodox parish in the diocese.  The rector is a member of the SSC, very AC, and a great pastor.  Why he’s still in TEC escapes me, but I would encourage you to stop by, if you have a chance.

When I was still on the St. Timothy’s mailing list some years ago the newsletter reported a Vestry vote never to do anything to endanger St. Timothy’s property.  This means the parish will never leave ECUSA.  The current rector will inevitably leave someday, sooner or later, and the possibility of another conservative’s replacing him is nil, I think.

There is a lot of confusion around sexual brokeness.
For instance a high percentage of homosexuals (sorry don’t know the number) were sexually abused as children. But that does not mean if you were sexually abused you will go on to become a homosexual or an abuser. Or that if you are homosexual that you were abused. And yet most abusers were abused. Injuries beget injuries, but not all injuries yield the same fruit (neurosies) - no pun implied.

This story is about evil incarnate. It could be perpetrated by a member of any organization. That such evil was perpetrated by a homosexual Episcopalian serving on vestry should not evoke righteous zeal on the part of reasserters, only grief and the cry of kyrie eleison.

But perhaps that prayer has already been partially answered. Two boys are now being brought to safety. Glory hallelujah. And a predator may get a chance to turn to Jesus now that his life has been brought to light and shattered. Pray he comes into contact with prison ministries and finds forgiveness and healing at the cross.

For that matter we should be praying for all parties concerned: the predator, his partner, the other predators (pray too that their lives might be exposed and the light of christ brought in), the church and most especially the boys. God loves the least and the lost—certainly he loves these boys and yes, this pedophile too. Perhaps all this coming to light is his grace. Pray that the pedophile finds Jesus in prison, that he may spend the rest of his life praying for healing for the boys he adopted and that he may help other people come out of the living hell of pederasty or other similar evils.

But for the grace of god…

[71] Katherine

The current rector will inevitably leave someday, sooner or later, and the possibility of another conservative’s replacing him is nil, I think.

I would think an organized parish could successfully resist this occurrence. 

1.  Thoroughly vet the replacement.

2.  If he is not conservative (or if he turns out to be a wolf in sheep’s clothing who somehow managed to sneak through the vetting process) simply turn off the money.  All of it.  Starve the organization into capitulation.
 
3.  If the Bishop relents, you win. You get the leadership you desire.

4.  If the Bishop doesn’t relent, the parish dies.  But it is dead anyways once it gets saddled with liberal leadership.  In fact it is better for the parish to cease to exist lest it be used as a vehicle for liberal apostasy. 

What have you got to lose?

carl

[72] episcoanglican

There is a lot of confusion around sexual brokeness.

This phrase ‘brokenness’ bothers me.  You often encounter it on liberal sites as a synonym for sin.  Except its not a synonym.  ‘Brokenness’ implies a lack of culpability on the part of that which is broken.  Some external force acted to ‘break’ the object in question.  And that is why I think liberals use the word so freely.  They do not see men as intrinsically evil.  They see men as intrinsically good but broken.  The purpose of the Christ is thus not to redeem evil men from sin, but to fix broken men so as to reveal their natural goodness.  This is not sound Christian anthropology.

The culpability for sin must never be once removed from the heart of man.  We shouldn’t say ‘sexual brokenness.’  We should say ‘sexual sin.’  Those two concepts are not the same.  The former implies external guilt.  The later implies internal guilt.  And where does the Scripture say that evil originates?  From without a man, or from within?

carl

carl, in the case of the Diocese of NC, the bishop is relentlessly liberal.  He tolerates St. Timothy’s but keeps a close eye on it, according to some people I know who go there.  The bishop is reputed to be pushing conservative clergy out of the diocese in a variety of ways.  Clergy with traditional leanings must be very, very careful.  The parish has a campus with sanctuary and school and the leadership appears to me to be committed to the bricks and mortar.  They might get, if a replacement is needed, an Anglo-Catholic leaning moderate, at best.

Hi Carl,

RE: “We shouldn’t say ‘sexual brokenness.’”

Sexual brokenness is used by ex-gay Mario Bergner who is anything but liberal.  He rightly uses it to encompass far more than “sinful behavior.” 

I agree with you that “sexual sin” is different from “sexual brokenness.”

Just to provide an example of the latter . . . same sex attraction is, I think we can all agree, a disorder.

It is possible, I think, to experience same sex attraction and 1) experience lust, and then repent of that lust, and 2) remain celibate of sexual relationships with the same gender.

Nevertheless—the person who experiences same sex attraction, even while 1) repenting of lust and 2) remaining celibate is a sexually broken creature.

Something is not working the way the designer intended.

To be clear, every single person on the planet, I suspect, is sexually broken in some sense.  And I think that our sexuality, as with all of our other areas of brokenness [physical, emotional, spiritual, intellectual, etc], needs to be turned over to Christ for healing and repair, if it is His will to do so.

The Episcopal Church of the Advocate has altered the newsletter in which the photo of Lombard appears. Check the update to my main post.

As it has been stated by other commentators here, unfortunately this kind of evil could happen in any institution.  Also, any one of us could have a friend or an acquaintance that could turn out to be a monster.

But that said…there is an extra level of irony here that this Frank Lombard is friends with and served on the same vestry as Terry Milner, AKA QueerForChrist, who has spent a lot of time online writing obnoxious and relentless criticism of orthodox Anglicans. Terry was especially zealous in accusing Archbishop Akinola of horrific crimes.

One of the lessons for me in this, anyway, is to be extra vigilant and prayerful to discern evil in our midst, and to not think that my side is pure and all the bad people are on the other side.

But that said…(and this is just one man’s opinion), in casting out all judgment, TEC has made itself particularly vulnerable to this type of evil.  In some ways I get their point - there are a lot of upstanding GLBT people who if you added up the totality of their sins those sins would be far fewer than a lot of orthodox Anglican heterosexuals.  But in its massive blurring of boundaries of sexual morality (the traditional Christian sexual boundaries are quite simple) TEC is opening the door for things that I don’t think they fully understand.  We take a lot of flack for upholding the boundaries of sexual behavior, but there is a reason why God put them there.

I desperately hope this is all a big misunderstanding, but reading the affidavit, it does not look good.  If this is what it looks like, this is a horrific crime of epic proportions.  We should pray for mercy and for the deliverance from evil, and most of all for the healing of the victims.

Bo, I’ve warned Myrmidon, now I’m warning you - I understand the sentiment, trust me, but I don’t want to read any more descriptions of vigilante punishments.

“June 28, 8:28 am: The Episcopal Church of the Advocate has altered the newsletter PDF referenced above. Their altered version is found here on their web site. We saved the original version and cached it here.

Wow.

Just wow.

It’s like the cleansing of the photographs in old Stalinist Russia.

Sarah Hey:

Well, that was interesting.

When this subject comes up, I am often reminded of the cynical unbeliever who visited Lourdes. 

His reaction:  “So many crutches, but no artificial limbs.”

This was a reference to the fact that when the lame are healed there, they leave their crutches behind and on display as an act of thanksgiving for their recovery.

But apparently first order creation miracles - the kind it would take to regenerate a severed limb - are in . . . short supply, even there.  Hence the absence of prosthetic devices which provided the basis for the visitor‘s doubts.  Maybe it’s all in our minds and not in our limbs, especially the ones we no longer have.

Quite a while back, one of Stand Firm’s most intelligent and articulate commenters (that would be Katherine in this case) posted what has since become my favorite quote from Dr. Robert Gagnon:

When did God ever predicate a single one of his commands on people first losing all desire to violate the command in question? Isn’t the reason why God gives commands and prohibitions because there are people with innate urges to violate them? Is the monogamy principle applicable only to people with no polysexual orientation? Is the principle of no intercourse with prepubescent children (and for our culture the whole of adolescence) applicable only to persons not so “oriented” with a pedosexual orientation?

...And what is the shape of God’s grace here? According to 2 Cor 12:7-10 grace is most profoundly experienced when, in answer to our fervent entreaties to be delivered from some distressing circumstance, God says “no” and explains “My grace is sufficient for you; my power will be brought to completion in and through your weakness.” Is the “no” a cause for depression and defeatism or the realization that this is a formative moment for being shaped more vigorously into the image of Christ?

I have actually had well meaning Christians say things to me along these lines:  “Well, it’s great that you’re able to resist these terrible impulses you have, but what a shame that you haven’t really been healed from homosexuality.  Perhaps you should pray harder.”  Whatever!

This side of eternity I may never know how many of my pew mates really wanted to have sex with the neighbor’s wife, or the neighbor’s dog, or the neighbor’s child, but never actually did so because God’s grace helped them to discover that desire alone could never be other than too much, or not enough.

But while I’m still in purgatory getting further in touch with my inner self, I will not be surprised if word reaches me that many of them have gone on to hear, “Well done, my good and faithful servant,” because the hellish nightmare of their particular brokenness turned out to be the crucible in which God was able to burn away all the dross in their lives. 

I may never make it to Lourdes (I’d prefer Walsingham anyway) and if I do go there, I may come home in the same shape as when I left.  I’ll take note of the crutches but I won’t bother to count them.  And I expect I’ll be delighted by what I find there, and not the least bit troubled by what I don’t.

Episcopalienated - and Katherine - thanks for words to carry in my heart as I leave for church in a few moments.

Sarah #80,

All good liberals think alike.  In a world of relativism, history is also relative.  They write the history they want which is not necessarily the history that occurred.

Well, thank you for your kind words, episcopalienated.  And may God continue to bless you, at Walsingham or at home.

We are so quick to tell God what we expect him to do for us.  Not my will, but thine, Lord.

The local news outlets still haven’t said anything about the church connection that I can find.  But here is a curious newspaper report on Lombard’s neighbors refusing to talk to reporters.  He lives in a “co-housing community…Co-housing communities allow residents have a say in the area’s design, and they manage and maintain the community together. Decisions are made through consensus, and residents share common space.”  His neighbors know him well, it seems, and they ordered the reporter to leave.  They don’t want to talk about it, like the church.  In fairness, it may be such a shock all around that it will take a while to deal with it.

Greg 79

I don’t understand why you’ve linked me with the vigilantes - I’ve praised Carl when he was among the first to call for caution, I’ve reminded folks he is only the Accused, and stressed the IF he is convicted…..

I’ll refrain from mentioning what others may think of as harsh penalty again, but I’m one of those holding to the must not act unless he is actually convicted, I’m no vigilante!

To those very concerned about a “maximum 20 year sentence” for actions such as those described in this case, don’t be.  I’m reasonably sure that numerous additional charges will be forthcoming if there is evidence this person has been molesting the child, as appears likely. I believe the only thing he has been charged with so far is the federal prostitution/offering of interstate sex with a child charge.  I don’t think he has been charged with actual child sexual assault himself yet.  It appears that he was quickly arrested on the federal charge before he could post his video preview to the undercover detective.  Expect more criminal charges.

[76] Sarah Hey

Sexual brokenness is used by ex-gay Mario Bergner who is anything but liberal.  He rightly uses it to encompass far more than “sinful behavior.”

Fair enough.  Perhaps I have imported a usage of the word into a context that does not support the usage.  I certainly didn’t mean to imply that only liberals use the word.  But it is true that liberal usage conditioned my reaction.

Something is not working the way the designer intended.

If I understand you correctly, this would be your working definition of “brokenness.”  It strikes me that the statement is written in passive voice.  That agrees with my original contention that “brokenness” is intended to remove culpability to an unidentified external agent.  At this point, I want to say that the agent in question is sin, and the thing that sin “breaks” is the heart of man. 

Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled? But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.  Matthew 15:17-19

This firmly places the desire to sin within man himself, and makes him culpable for those desires.  I don’t see how the concept of “disorder” fits into this sequence.  Disorder would imply that the desires in question proceed from someplace other than the wicked heart of man.

Consider the case of pornography.  Every male of the species between the ages of (say about) seven through dead is attracted to pornography.  It is to me nothing more than a perfect reflection of male sexuality that has been deformed (my word) or broken (your word) by sin.  Certainly the desire to indulge pornography indicates that something isn’t working the way God intended.  But what can that “something” be other than the human heart from whence these desires originate?

Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death. James 1:13-15

If I go on a business trip, the desire I experience to buy a pornographic movie in the hotel is my desire.  It is not a fault with my construction.  It is a fault proceeding from my nature as a sinful creature.

It is possible, I think, to experience same sex attraction and 1) experience lust, and then repent of that lust, and 2) remain celibate of sexual relationships with the same gender.

I agree completely.  Any sexual sin could be inserted into that chain of logic.  But the root of the initiating desire is not found in a morally neutral location.  It must be located in the heart of man, and that location is not morally neutral.  I am by nature a sinner, and therefore I sin. 

carl

Of course, one doesn’t have to be liberal or homosexual to abuse minors.  My Southern Baptist youth minister, married with children, who taught that “True Love Waits” program every year, was involved in some sort of sexual indiscretion with teenage girls.
I’m 100% against sex with kids, though I have in the past stated that it would not terribly surprise me if, within the next 50 years, sexual acts with adolescents and perhaps even pre-adolescents becomes as socially acceptable as homosexuality has become.  I have suspicions that there might be a one or two of GLBT activists in TEC already thinking along those lines, but the web post I saw years ago that make me suspect that is on a site that no longer exists.  Nevertheless, I don’t believe that even radical organizations like Integrity or GLAAD will ever, ever support drugging kids for sex or auctioning them of online.  I have studied blogs and websites put of my people that have wrongly convinced themselves that sexual activity is harmless and something that kids can desire, consent to and enjoy.  In this case, the guy very clearly isn’t making the slightest pretense of consent.  If there is a worst of the worst of the worst, this is it.  The only thing we can be thankful for is that he did not kill the kids. 

Clearly, we have the responsibility to pray for the spiritual and mental healing of both the children and the perpetrator.  The kids may be in a “safe place” now physically, but the psychic wounds will be long in healing.  As for the perpetrator, he should be in jail for the rest of his life.  However, I derive no satisfaction from the thought of the torments he will experience as the hands of his fellow criminals.  Instead, we must pray for his repentance and salvation.

As for the orientation issue:
Sexual orientation is not a concrete, binary, scientifically testable construct about which it is easy to get meaningful statistics.  Instead it is a complex, often amorphous psychological phenomena, with no reliable externally observable characteristics. 

In other words, there is no fool-proof way of knowing what people find sexually desirable. 

I would make the following suggestions to take into consideration.
1)  We simply have no way of knowing how many homosexuals there are in the world, especially considering that people that are not 100% “straight” have every motivation to not speak about or act upon any alternate desires.  As such, it is simply impossible to make statistical claims about any population set that includes all homosexuals. 
2)  Same with pedophiles.
3)  Sexual attraction to pre-pubescents of either gender can be distinct phenomena from sexual attraction to post-pubescent adults and older adolescents.  One might be attracted to men and boys, women and boys (but not men), women and girls, boys and girls, just boys, and just girls.
4)  Just to reiterate point three, one can be sexually attracted to women and sexually attracted to boys, but not be attracted to men.  In Classical Greece, this was particularly common. 
5)  A very large percentage of those that sexually abuse minors are not sexually “oriented” toward minors.  As with raping adults, power and sadism rather than sexual desire is often the primary motive. 
6)  Given the above, while one could use statistics on the relative genders of abuser and abusee to state that a larger percentage of abuse cases are same-sex than one might expect, I find it impossible to reach any meaningful conclusions about whether or not a larger percentage of “gay” people than “straight” people are pedophiles.

AndrewA,

I disagree with you that GLAAD or Integrity would never support sex with children. While they have not as of yet come out in favor of it officially, they have either been behind efforts, or tacitly supported efforts, to lower the age of consent. Then there is the troubling theme, among gay men especially, of the middle-aged-male/young-man theme that borders uncomfortably on pederasty.

If Lombard is guilty of this crime, then he is a monster, but it really turns the spotlight on this Satcher Institute, William Stayton, “Jesus had no problem with man-boy love” involvement in Rowan Williams’ indaba effort. This is the real significance of the Lombard case - not whether he’s guilty, or even what kind of church he goes to (although neither is inconsequential).

What Lombard is accused of doing, Stayton says isn’t wrong; that the problem is not in the act itself, but in other people’s reactions to it. This is the man whose group is funding and “monitoring” the Anglican Communion’s indaba efforts.

Rowan Williams is going to have to be made to answer for this.

RE: “That agrees with my original contention that “brokenness” is intended to remove culpability to an unidentified external agent.”

Well, I use the word “brokenness not to remove culpability but to describe that realm of human failing that does not always involve sinful action.  “Brokenness” expands the realm of description of human ontology beyond merely what sinners do as sin.  So it is a more expansive word than sin.

Let us take, for instance, a person whose intellect—to measure it, whose IQ—is say, 40.  That person must in general be institutionalized.  He is severely fallen, intellectually.

He is “broken.”

Is his fallen intellect actually “sinful”?  Well . . . certainly he himself is a sinner.  But that does not make his fallen intellect sinful in and of itself.  All things that are “broken” or fallen come ultimately from the Fall of man, which is to say sin, which has corrupted the world and human beings.  But I cannot say that his fallen intellect is sin.

Let us use as another example a person who was born with only stubs for his lower torso and his arms.

Is he “broken” physically?  Yes.  Is he a sinner?  Yes.  Might he “sin” in the use of his broken body?  Certainly.  But his broken body is not in and of itself sin for the lack of feet and legs.

Moving on to personality—let us suppose someone is by nature quite shy—painfully shy, so shy that upon returning from the workplace [where she stays in her cube] she stays in her room at 30, rather then venturing out into public.  Is her diffident personality “sin”?  Or is it brokenness?  I would suggest the latter.

Now—it is possible that her fallen and broken personality might lead her into sin.  For example, she may come across a co-worker in terrible need and alone and struggling with something with which this shy person could assist.  She, because of her broken personality, turns away from her co-worker.  That would be, I expect, classified as sinful behavior which springs from her broken personality.

In the same way sexuality.  To use an example that is somewhat the inverse of our usual example, let us suppose that a woman struggles with sexual expression with her husband.  She does so because of some painful and devastating occurrences from childhood.  This is a severely broken aspect to her—and yet, let us suppose that she works hard, going through a lot in order to learn to appropriately express sexual love with her husband.  That is a good thing—it is admirable.  Might her sexual brokenness lead her to sin?  Certainly.  But is her sexual struggle or brokenness in and of itself sin?

I’m not sure I can say that.

I disagree with you that GLAAD or Integrity would never support sex with children.

Nope, you misunderstand me.  I didn’t say I think Integrity will never support sex with children.  I said I think they will never support drugging children to get sex or putting them on auction.  Instead they will convince themselves, as groups like NAMBLA have done, that “Reponsible BoyLovers” can have “consensual” and “mutually loving” sex with children.

AndrewA,

Ah… so what we’re looking at, should Rowan ever be asked, “You Grace, how is what Frank Lombard has (allegedly) done any different from what William Stayton advocates?” is, if he answers truthfully, “Oh, um, well… the Anglican Communion would never support drugging little boys before having sex with them.”

Never say never with Rowan, Greg.

I have absolutely no information to back this up, but I suspect that, with the breaking scandal (and yes, he is innocent until proven guilty), the vicar asked or urged him to resign from vestry.

Speaking purely suppositionally, I’m thinking Mr. Lombard has been instructed to say exactly nothing to no one by his attorney.  I’d be very surprised if his vicar has been to see him.

I posted about this on my site and received a reply from someone who had been here.  Thanks to whoever it was.

Regarding the “cleansing” of their site by the Episcopal Church of the Advocate, I have only one comment to make about this. It is not only a cowardly thing to do, it’s not a Christian thing to do.

They were perfectly happy to have a gay man with two adopted “African American” children as a leading member of the church. But he’s now exposed as a pedophile practicing perverted sex with children and offering them to strangers to feed his sexual fantasies.

Now that he is exposed as a sinner before the entire world, and now that his persona is being torn down, his shame is at its peak, he is most in need of Christ’s forgiveness. Christ’s apostles here on earth are the members of his church. And rather than practicing “radical hospitality” they are scurrying for cover; not willing to face the sins that they have enabled.

“Radical hospitality,” not so much. A bunch of whitened sepulchers is more like it.

Inviting biblically-unrestrained homosexual men into positions of authority and access at churches will inevitably lead to disasters paralleling that experienced by boys in the Roman Catholic Church in the U.S. I have to believe that the more level-headed bishops in TEC understand this danger, and for a plausible policy defense in any lawsuits, the House of Bishops adopted Resolution X031, House of Bishops Letter on Child Sexual Abuse 2003, at the 2003 General Convention.  That Convention, of course, approved other matters as well.  That Resolution X031 concludes with a statistically misleading statement of risk that tries to distance pedophilia in churches from homosexuality:
“We must be aware that the Church is a community which offers predators the opportunity to become known and trusted by parents and their children. We also know that offenders are predominantly male and heterosexual. We must take great care not to equate pedophilia with homosexuality in our minds or our conversation, and we must never assume that only men molest children in this way.”
When one factors in the fact that homosexuals are a very small percentage of the population, one realizes that the Bishop’s statement actually does not contradict the more important statistic that as to any particular man, if he is homosexual he is far more likely to engage in pedophilia than if he is heterosexual.
This concern by the bishops about the safety of children has led to TEC dioceses, among other things, initiating background checks of people who get a key to church premises.  In the Diocese of Northwest Texas, the Bishop, without any canon, in 2006 attempted to implement a policy in which the Bishop would run background checks on every parishioner who received a key to church premises. 
This does not weed out, of course, the first-time offender or unconvicted offender.  A separate concern about the lack of canonical authorization in the Diocese of Northwest Texas is that this might be used later by diocesan authorities against withdrawing parishes to argue that the Bishop has “inherent” ecclesiastical authority over parishioners that is not in the canons, and that the parishioners’ submission to the background checks recognizes this inherent authority.  If your diocese has implemented the background checks on parishioners in the same informal way, you should be aware of this ramification.

Mark Brown
San Angelo, Texas
June 28, 2009

I see the Episcopal Church has also taken out those verses where Jesus talks about millstones.  They are really too judgmental, after all.

[67] mari,

You state in reply to Athanasian that

I didn’t say that most child abuse claims are committed by homosexuals, I said that a greater percentage of homosexuals are pedophiles.

However, I think you need to re-read your original assertion, because you actually did state what you now assert you did not. At comment [47] you wrote:

There are homosexual pedophiles, in fact, most incidents of child molestation are homosexual.

That earlier comment at [47] only makes sense literal sense when interpreted to mean exactly what you claim you didn’t state. It does not mention a rate of offense, but a quantity of offenses.

Now, I will grant that you may not have intended to write what you did at [47] but there is no question that you did write it. And Athanasian, rather than getting his knickers in a twist, is simply responding to precisely that which your statement denotes.

Pax et bonum,
Keith Töpfer

BTW, I think it very appropriate that a parish with a vestry member accused of any felony, much less one as horrific and scandalous as this one, should immediately expel said vestry member from his position and update the website to reflect this.  However, editing pictures out of newsletters?  Very odd.

[92] Sarah Hey
That was an extremely helpful post.  I think now I understand what you are saying. 

The four proffered examples brought to my mind the man born blind in John 9.

As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” Jesus answered, “It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him. John 9:1-3

Here we have a direct analogy for your second example.  The defects and diseases to which we are subject indeed flow from the fall of man.  But ...

WARNING.  REFORMED THEOLOGY AHEAD

... nothing happens in this life that is beyond the Decree of God.  He does not sit in heaven, rub His chin, and say to Himself “How did that happen?”  The fact that this man was born blind was not the result of any man’s sin.  Instead, he was born blind specifically so that the Son of Man could restore his sight.  As with all your examples, they do not exist in a random universe.  They occur for a purpose.  Ultimately that purpose is to somehow bring God glory.  To have a specific disability, or a specific intelligence level, or a specific personality type is by definition a means to bring glory to God. 

It is therefore not inevitable that any of the conditions you list must of necessity lead to sinful behavior.  Between the condition and the behavior is the human heart.  The sin proceeds from our reaction to the conditions that we are presented in life.  I’m not sure we disagree on this.  If I understand you correctly, this is exactly the point you were making.  It is important to separate the condition from the reaction to the condition. 

So, if I understand you correctly, you are asserting that the presence of homosexual desire is analogous to an emotional or physiological defect.  The sin would proceed from a man’s reaction to that defect.  But just as the man born blind was not held accountable for his lack of sight, so also the man born with homosexual tendencies is not held accountable for the mere existence of those tendencies.  He is held accountable for his reaction to those tendencies.  This would require that a disability produce not just the absence of a specific function, nor a limitation on that function, but a complete change in that function.  I am not sure I accept this as a possibility, but that is a different argument.  Given that what you said is true, I can understand your logic and agree that it does not conflict with the taxonomy of sin as presented in Scripture.  To whit, I agree I was importing a meaning of a word into a context that does not necessarily allow for that meaning.

carl

This would require that a disability produce not just the absence of a specific function, nor a limitation on that function, but a complete change in that function.  I am not sure I accept this as a possibility, but that is a different argument.

At risk of going off into into the wilderness of things that are both off topic and that I don’t know much about, synesthesia comes to mind when you mention a change of function.

Keith, thanks for pointing that out. I admit to having been extremely upset for those 2 little boys who were the victims of that monster. I meant to say that a higher percentage of homosexuals were pedophiles, than heterosexuals, and I apologize to him for misstating that point, however I did read citations on the DoJ website, as I stated yesterday.

The four proffered examples brought to my mind the man born blind in John 9.

The other thing is, sometimes the brokenness is in fact a just consequence of sin (c.f., John 5:14).  It’s problematic to generalize the cause (or what cannot be the cause) across the board.

The resolution passed by the diocese of North Carolina in Jan 2008 (boldface added):

ON THE INCLUSION OF ALL PERSONS REGARDLESS OF SEXUAL ORIENTATION AS FULL AND EQUAL PARTICIPANTS IN THE LIFE OF CHRIST’S CHURCH.

Resolved by the 192nd Annual Convention of the Episcopal Diocese of North Carolina, that the Diocese continue to demonstrate its commitment to radical hospitality and, that in accordance with the House of Bishops’ Statement, Fall 2007, we “proclaim the Gospel that in Christ all God’s children, including gay and lesbian persons, are full and equal participants in the life of Christ’s Church” by:

1) Urging the Archbishop of Canterbury to extend to the duly elected and consecrated Bishop of New Hampshire an invitation to full participation in the Lambeth Conference of 2008;

2) Encouraging our Deputies to the 2009 General Convention to ensure compliance with Title III. Canon I. Section 2, which supports the full and equal participation of all persons regardless of sexual orientation in all aspects of the Church’s ministries, lay and ordained;

3) Encouraging the General Convention to call for the development of public liturgies for the blessing of same sex unions.

Regarding this revisionist church revising its old newsletters:  If you think you can rewrite the Bible, you won’t give a second thought to changing your newsletter ex post facto.

#72
Thank you, thank you Episcoanglican….

Carl - liberals never use the term sexual brokeness. They don’t really believe in sexual sin, so whatever someone’s “orientation” is, it certainly isn’t broken (dis-ordered) in their understanding. It is exclusively a term of bible believing Christians.

As to the term “brokeness” Sarah does an excellent job explaing its use.

In this case, a man’s sexuality is certainly broken (dis-ordered) if he is attracted to children instead of an adult woman. This type of disorder is often the result of a complex set of envionmental factors which can include various deprivations (sins committed on the deprived such as a mother’s or father’s love) abuses (sins committed on the abused whether they be sexual, emotional or physical) and sinful reactions by the deprived and abused (such as unforgiveness, self-hatred and internal sinful vows). This person grows up, but dis-ordered or sexually broken in any of a miriad of expressions. Their personhood cannot form and mature in a normal way. 

Frank Lombard, out of his brokeness, has not just sinned in his heart, as probably you and I did today, he did not just sin with his eyes and a diseased fantasy life, but he moved beyond these—in the wickedness of his heart—to perpetrate great evil. And if the story is true, to be totally given over to it. There is a vast difference between the particular sexual brokeness (disorder) a given person may be “oriented” towards and the premeditated, exploitive sexual consumption of defenseless children. The former (homosexuality, pederasty, etc.) is brokeness, the later is sin and the incarnation of evil. No doubt there are “legion” in the heart of Frank Lombard.

And yet sin begets greater sin. These two boys, with the inherit sinfulness of their little hearts, have now been broken by this pedophile. They have little chance of growing up to live healthy ordered lives subject to the normal temptations of healthy men—unless God in his grace intervenes and heals them. But even IF God does heal them of their brokeness, they will still have sinful hearts and need the grace of God to live rightly.

I hope that is helpful.

[108] episcoanglican

No to contradict, but the use of ‘brokenness’ as a stand-in for sin has common usage among liberals.  IIRC, the first time I encountered it was on FrJake’s long-departed yet unlamented weblog.  Were it not for liberal usage, I would not even know about it.  My original description is derived from observation of liberal argumentation.  In fact, I have never heard the term used by Christians in the way Sarah used it today.  I reacted as I did because I felt we were thoughtlessly adopting an alien terminology -  similar to the way people thoughtlessly use the term sexual orientation.

I’m not sure I agree with Sarah in this matter.  I’m not sure I disagree either.  It’s difficult for me to accept a complete inversion of behavior as coming from a defect of the type she postulates.  The connection between genetics and behavior is fuzzy to say the least.  In any case, it is not a hill worth dying on so long as the taxonomy of sin is maintained.  We delve into mysterious places when we start trying to specifically identify the origins of specific human behavior.  I am only concerned that we never lose sight of the fact that sin always finds its origin within man himself.  Sarah’s explanation was consistent with that reality.  At least in my always humble opinion. 

btw, as an aside, I wanted to say that Moot’s qualification in [104] is well taken.

carl

OK. Clearly, I have not been reading the liberal blogs you have re: brokeness. I did know the buddhist bishop-elect described sin as not knowing our own goodness—whatever that means. I suppose we (revisionists vs reasserters) are “a similar people separated by a common language.”

Keith,

Hate to disagree, but to describe a same sex act of molestation as homosexual is precisely accurate: the act is homosexual, regardless of the perp’s usual preferences.

Remember how Rocks and Shoals punished sodomy but took no notice of orientation?  That’s what I’d rather the military went back to.

Regarding #105, I imagine most of the voting delegates did not consider bestiality, incest, and pedophilia when they adopted that resolution.  However, it is a biblical precept in both the Old and New Testaments that you reap what you sow (Hosea 8:7, 10:12-13, Galatians 6:7-8).  This story is a very graphic reminder.
Unless the Anglican Communion breaks its relationship with the Satcher Institute, it too will reap what it sowed.

With this “hard case” as an example, the death penalty is an act of mercy on the perpetrator and on society.  Death Row (without interminable appeals) is a final call to repentance on a life that otherwise would most likely continue in the same direction, bringing greater damnation on him/her -self and further endangering society, who does not need another performance of the acts that landed the person in the system to start with. 

If this man is convicted, when he is released into the main population he is likely to be wishing he had the merciful option of a death penalty. Lord, have mercy!

Mike Adams weighs in [url=http://townhall.com/columnists/MikeAdams/2009/06/29/the_advocate_of_the_episcopal_church?page=full&comments=true]http://townhall.com/columnists/MikeAdams/2009/06/29/the_advocate_of_the_episcopal_church?page=full&comments=true [/url]

Great link, ty1028—
In part, Adams’ article notes:

Until shortly after his arrest, Frank Lombard’s read “Fan of Gene Robinson.”
For those who do not remember, Gene Robinson is the Episcopal Bishop who caused massive uproar in the church just a few years ago. He was not only openly gay but also admittedly non-celibate long before he came up for ratification as a bishop at the Episcopal convention. The vote for ratification was 62 to 45 in his favor causing serious division in the church.

It is impossible to know exactly why Frank Lombard considers himself a “fan of Gene Robinson.” Maybe he was just a fan of his because Robinson made it easier for Lombard – an openly gay man – to become a part of the vestry at The Episcopal Church of the Advocate. Or maybe Frank Lombard was more ambitious than Gene Robinson.

Sorry—-the beginning of the above quote references Frank Lombard’s facebook page.

Great quote by Mike Adams, linked in #114—

In 2003, many defenders drew a line (read: manufactured a standard) by saying that Jesus never specifically condemned homosexuality in the New Testament. But there is a huge problem: Jesus never specifically condemned pedophilia, incest, or rape in the New Testament either.

[111] Ed the Roman,

Assuming that your referenced comment is directed to me—based on my being the only Keith explicitly named in this thread—I don’t think you read my comment at [99] with those of mari ([47], [67]) carefully enough.

Specifically, I didn’t express any opinion regarding the accuracy or veracity of mari‘s two comments. I simply noted that her comment at [67] did not accurately reflect what she had written in her comment at [47]. Therefore, if you disagree with what I was saying you can only mean that you think her comment “most incidents of child molestation are homosexual” is logically equivalent to her comment “that a greater percentage of homosexuals are pedophiles.” That is a conclusion which she has already identified (at [103]) as incorrect and the result of an unintentional misstatement in her first referenced post.

I have never previously explicitly stated my opinion in writing in a public forum (blog or otherwise) with respect to what the government’s policies ought to be. I have, however, and on more than one thread on this forum, pointed out the established fact that an exceedingly high percentage of the child molestation cases against the Catholic Church involved homosexual priests and post-pubescent males (a practice covered by the technical term ephebophilia).

Therefore, in order to be abundantly clear as to my opinion as a Christian and as a U.S. Navy Lieutenant Commander who retired in 1991, I will state that I believe that engaging in homosexual practice should disqualify individuals from entry into US military service and be grounds for immediate mandatory discharge for those discovered after enlistment. In other words, I don’t disagree with your comment, and I strongly suspect that mari‘s intended comment (that the rate is much higher among homosexuals) is correct. The civil laws governing the private and consensual behavior of legally competent adults acting free of coercion is a separate issue, although those engaging in such activities might conceivably be subject to laws pertaining to public health and epidemiological issues.

Pax et bonum,
Keith Töpfer

This thread—or, rather, the underlying subject of this thread is so depressing.

Seven years ago, my wife and I adopted our daughter from Vietnam. So, yes, we are, I suppose, a bi-racial family, since my wife and I are both “white.”

We would very much like to adopt a second child—either domestically, or from abroad. It makes no difference to us. As far as we are concerned, the “race” or place of origen of a baby—a baby in need of a family and a home—is completely irrelevant. We trusted God to bring the right child into our life when we adopted Claire (now 7) and we are willing for him to do so again.

In the intervening 7 years since Claire became a part of our family, it has become MUCH MUCH MUCH harder to adopt a baby—from ANYWHERE.

We are prosperous, responsible, sane, sensible, and law-abiding people. And, yet, we are facing HUGE regulatory and bureaucratic obstacles as we seek to welcome another child into our family. MOST foreign countries have shut down their programs. Domestic adoption is seriously impeded by “liberals” who think that “inter-racial” adoption is, somehow, not in the child’s best interest.

There are all sorts of reasons why it is now almost impossible for us (or for any other properous, “white,” Americans) to successfully adopt a child from ANYWHERE.

But incidents, such as this Frank Lombard story, are sure to make it EVEN HARDER for people like us to open our homes and our hearts to children in genuine need of a famiy.

Keith… I think the confusion stems from different understandings of the subject at hand. It is unquestionably true that the vast majority of molesters are adult men… it’s also true that the majority of pre-pubescent victims (whether pedo or not) are boys. The debate isn’t over the statistics, but in how to characterize that offender. To some it’s perfectly reasonable to see male/male abuse and say “gay”... to others it is entirely separate from adult/adult attraction regardless of the gender of the abused child.

It doesn’t help that the “professionals” responsible for studying/labeling the behavior are themselved open to political pressure to label some activities “normal” that used to be “disordered.”

bluenarrative - God bless you and your family. May he grant you the desires of your heart (and may your desires reflect what He gives you). We have noticed the same desert of adoption options here in NC.

I have no evidence yet, but I fear that too many governments are now run by people who think that there are simply too many people in the world… and that the solution is to get rid of some of them.

To some it’s perfectly reasonable to see male/male abuse and say “gay”... to others it is entirely separate from adult/adult attraction regardless of the gender of the abused child

If it is “gay” then men abusing pre-pubescent girls is “straight”.  Personally, I tend to use “gay” only to refer to males attracted to post-pubescent males.  Of course, one again, most child sexual abuse, like most rape, is more about power and sadism than sexual attraction.  One might sexually abuse children but not be sexually “oriented” toward them.  One might also be sexually attracted to boys, but not men.

If it is “gay” then men abusing pre-pubescent girls is “straight”. 

That’s correct. The most common definition of “heterosexual” is “attracted toward persons of the opposite sex.” I’ve seen no mention of age.

Note that “straight” in now way means “without sexual sin.” I can’t sleep with the woman down the street and say to myself “well at least I’m not gay.” The scum who abuses a young girl is no less contemptible than the one who abuses a young boy just because the label “gay” fits one and not the other. The sin resides in defying God’s design for sexuality and in violating His innocents. The “orientation” isn’t particularly relevant.

I’d say that the more correct statement is just to say that people who have one particular disordered sexual attraction (homosexuality) are statistically more likely to have others.

Positive Phototaxis (#122, etc.) I am in Durham, NC! Where are you? I should PM you, but often people seem to not notice when I send them Private Messages. We should talk!  —Matthew

I’d like to suggest, that given the dem controlled senate’s interest in forcing through S.909 which would provide a gaping loophole through which such types could attack religion and churches, as well as redefine pedophiles, among other paraphilias as “sexual orientation” that those willing contact their 2 senators and express their concern, as well as mentioning this horrifying case.

Thank God Lombard was stopped before the baby was sold for sex. Let’s pray the child gets the love and support he needs to grow up strong and live in peace.
My name is Keith Smith. I was abducted, beaten and raped by a stranger. It wasn’t a neighbor, a coach, a relative, a family friend or teacher. It was a recidivist pedophile predator who spent time in prison for previous sex crimes; an animal hunting for victims in the quiet suburbs of Lincoln, Rhode Island.
I was able to identify the guy and the car he was driving. He was arrested and indicted but never went to trial. His trial never took place because he was brutally beaten to death in Providence before his court date. 34 years later, no one has ever been charged with the crime.
In the time between the night of my assault and the night he was murdered, I lived in fear. I was afraid he was still around town. Afraid he was looking for me. Afraid he would track me down and kill me. The fear didn’t go away when he was murdered. Although he was no longer a threat, the simple life and innocence of a 14-year-old boy was gone forever. Carefree childhood thoughts replaced with the unrelenting realization that my world wasn’t a safe place. My peace shattered by a horrific criminal act of sexual violence.
Over the past 34 years, I’ve been haunted by horrible, recurring memories of what he did to me. He visits me in my sleep. There have been dreams–nightmares actually–dozens of them, sweat inducing, yelling-in-my-sleep nightmares filled with images and emotions as real as they were when it actually happened. It doesn’t get easier over time. Long dead, he still visits me, silently sneaking up from out of nowhere when I least expect it. From the grave, he sits by my side on the couch every time the evening news reports a child abduction or sex crime. I don’t watch America’s Most Wanted or Law and Order SVU, because the stories are a catalyst, triggering long suppressed emotions, feelings, memories, fear and horror. Real life horror stories rip painful suppressed memories out from where they hide, from that recessed place in my brain that stores dark, dangerous, horrible memories. It happened when William Bonin confessed to abducting, raping and murdering 14 boys in California; when Jesse Timmendequas raped and murdered Megan Kanka in New Jersey; when Ben Ownby, missing for four days, and Shawn Hornbeck, missing for four years, were recovered in Missouri.
Despite what happened that night and the constant reminders that continue to haunt me years later, I wouldn’t change what happened. The animal that attacked me was a serial predator, a violent pedophile trolling my neighborhood in Lincoln, Rhode Island looking for young boys. He beat me, raped me, and I stayed alive. I lived to see him arrested, indicted and murdered. It might not have turned out this way if he had grabbed one of my friends or another kid from my neighborhood. Perhaps he’d still be alive. Perhaps there would be dozens of more victims and perhaps he would have progressed to the point of silencing his victims by murdering them.
Out of fear, shame and guilt, I’ve been silent for over three decades, not sharing with anyone the story of what happened to me. No more. The silence has to end. What happened to me wasn’t my fault. The fear, the shame, the guilt have to go. It’s time to stop keeping this secret from the people closest to me, people I care about, people I love, my long-time friends and my family. It’s time to speak out to raise public awareness of male sexual assault, to let other survivors know that they’re not alone and to help survivors of rape and violent crime understand that the emotion, fear and memories that may still haunt them are not uncommon to those of us who have shared a similar experience.
My novel, Men in My Town, was inspired by these actual events. Men in My Town is available now at http://www.Amazon.com
For those who suffer in silence, I hope my story brings some comfort, strength, peace and hope.
For additional information, please visit the Men in My Town blog at http://www.meninmytown.wordpress.com

This has been picked up by th Huffington Post
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/27/frank-lombard-duke-univ-o_n_221900.html

and the comments are interesting.

Wow—- I read the excerpts and the reviews at the link.  Unbelievable.  What a privilege to Stand Firm that you posted here. Thank you.

#127 above directed to Keith Smith at #125.

bluenarrative - You’re welcome to PM me… I’m not sure that anyone ever has since I was welcomed to the site. I don’t know how it displays but I’ll be sure to check for a couple days.

We’re in Winston Salem.

Truly a tragedy on every level.  I pray that our Lord heal the wounds of these children.  May mr. lombard find God’s mercy lest he suffer his millstone.

This story has been picked up by CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/30/duke.molestation.internet/index.html

Maybe a glimpse at Lombard’s Amazon Wishlist would have set off warning bells.
http://tinyurl.com/kq8l9q

Re:  Private messages.  You can go to your message center and set your preferences to have Stand Firm send you an automatic email when someone sends you a PM.  Then you can log in at SF and read it.

Paula Loughlin #132, ugh.  This guy isn’t just “gay.”  This looks like obsession.

MenInMyTown, I can see the fear, but shame and guilt have no place for you.  It wasn’t your fault.

bluenarrative, it is very frustrating to see that the state of North Carolina has apparently placed at least one infant, perhaps two, with this partnered gay man while you and your wife cannot have even one placed with you.  My husband and I became aware of the adoption problem thirty years ago when we discovered that infants we could have adopted were being aborted, not born.

The Gay News Network-CNN is running the story this morning It has thoroughly cleansed any aspect of the gay connection. Textbook example of advocating a cause as opposed to reporting the story.
Intercessor

#137 - This is how CNN worded it (linked in comment #131):

According to a transcript of the chat, reprinted in the complaint, Lombard allegedly told the officer that he had to hide the abuse from his partner and that he drugged the child with allergy medication.

I’m confused about something.  We’re all up in arms about removing him from the website, newsletter, etc.  This is, presumably, because the church would like to distance itself from this person and these acts.  Obviously, they made a huge error in judgment about this person.  Now they want to…cover it up?

I don’t know, friends.  I honestly think removing him from the website is the right thing for them to do.  As far as removing all other signs of him, I’m honestly not offended, nor do I think they are rewriting history per se.  If they were to follow up it with “No, we have no idea who he is never met him” that would be problematic.

I just can’t help but think that, if they simply left all references to him alone we’d have a thread here about how shameless they were, not even trying to shun or otherwise distance themselves from a known pedophile.

We shouldn’t forget that this could happen in any one of our parishes, no matter how straight or conservative the membership.  And how would be respond?  By leaving the website intact as a testament to…uhh…the fact that the person in question was, in fact, once affiliated with us?  Forgive me if I doubt it.

Re #137 & #138 - agree with assessment of CNN.  They’ve run the “Gayby Boom kids” story and another similar story in the same vein for the past few days.  It seems Lombard only came to light in CNN’s sterilized form when other outlets noticed it.  Today we go back to ireport listed in main events praising a gay pride event.

Have long noted that CNN scrubs things if they can’t get around it.  I am using the following as a quantifiable example of media reporting.  I laughed yesterday when they published a commentary that poll numbers don’t define a president or their effectiveness.  That even when the numbers are good, a president is sometimes not effective in Congress because of Congress.  Obama’s at 61. CNN doesn’t report that Obama’s approval rating is dropping.

Yet almost every day, especially election time, there was a story about how Bush’s poll numbers were so awful, but CNN jumped on every point down. When you see that every day, or whatever CNN or another outlet is pushing, it’s manipulation.  Propagana at work.  Not what I was taught was objective reporting, but what I learned about marketing.

Whether you liked Bush or not is not my point here.  All of us are/were manipulated by the press.  Bush’s numbers were 46 at inaguration and rose then stayed in the 50’s until 9/11 where they rose to the 80’s for about 8 months then decayed. Gallup’s chart on Obama is here. A collection of Bush’s numbers from various sources here.  Same for Obama here.  If this were a Republican in the White House, it would be a main lead that the numbers are dropping. 

I’ve seen this in multiple areas; politics and religion are the most manipulated.  If you want to know what an outlets pets and peeves are, look at the pictures associated with the stories.  Good pictures - they like, Awful pictures - they hate.  Marketing.

We as Christians, Americans, and/or humans need to keep our eyes open.  As Christians, we need to pray that God is the One who leads us and guides us in our decisions, no matter what the subject matter is.

Annie V #139 has a very good point.  What would be the best, Godly thing to do in this case?  In our society?

Lombard has been accused, but not convicted.  The church could be sued by Lombard if they did put a notice up.  What the diocese was carefully worded.

I would be interested in knowing how others would have handled it.  IMO, I would hope the priest and vestry would have met with Lombard (if possible) and asked him to either resign or go inactive until the issue was resolved.  Then I would have posted something that said, “We are aware (or acknowledge) an issue has arisen and Vestry member John Doe has agreed to resign/step aside/be inactive/etc. until the matter has been resolved.  Please keep John, his family and our parish family in your prayers.  If you have any questions or concerns, please contact Fr. Smith or Vestry Senior Warden Smith.”

Does anyone know if any of the clergy at this parish are also homosexuals?

Mike Adams has another column on this issue. He talks about the “Wish List” that Frank Lombard had on Amazon.com.