Presiding Bishop briefs Church Center community on Primates’ Meeting

I can not believe what I am reading!  I have never heard of anyone so out to lunch!

I appeal for a gracious reponse to this. She is not trying to persuade ‘conservatives’ of the value of the Communique. The people she has to persuade are her own constiuency - the hard left liberals. I don’t agree with her views but I credit her with courage for taking on what looks to be an immensely painful and arduous task.

She told the gathering that the Episcopal Church is called to ensure that the conversation about the inclusion of gays and lesbians in the church continues in the Communion.

Ah, now I get it.  I could not for the life of me understand why +KJS and that crowd thought it was all this was about sex and the GBLT commmunity.  For the vast majority of us the conversation “going on for at least 40 years” has been about faith, scripture and that nature of the Gospel;  for them its been about “the inclusion of gays and lesbians in the church.”  As such that have been projecting the importance they place on “inclusion” on us.

While you’re listening Bishop Kathleen this isn’t about sex, it’s about the nature of our relationship with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.  Once you understand that, so much more will become clear.

RSB

Only read the excerpt, but it seems to me she is trying.  It seems she is trying to get the liberals to accept the communiqué and swallow that “bitter pill”.  I have no problem with the inclusion of homosexuals in our church.  I just can’t bless the behavior.  Lambeth 1.10 stands!  In addition to that I do think conservatives need to reach out to homosexuals in love and offer them the gospel of transformation.  Yes that will require listening, acceptance and the support of specific ministries to help homosexuals deal with there issues.  Of couse, when I speak of listening and acceptance, I am speaking with the true sense of those words and not the liberal wordsmithing.  Listening with empathy does not mean “agreement with”.  Acceptance of the person as a child of God without accepting the lifestyle is what we are called to do.

Of course everything I have said can only happen if liberals are willing to comply with Lambeth 1.10 in word and deed in all matters!  This is a BIG IF!  However, I applaud her for attempting to get the liberals to comply with this…  At least she is trying and that is more than the Griz ever did.  I cannot accept her representation or authority, but I can cut her some slack when she is trying to do the right thing.  I think we all should.

Aggh. their not there!
Boy, this auto correction really bugs me!  I can’t tall you how many times my auto correction takes my clumsy fingers and substitutes the wrong word.  Oh well, its better than a typewriter, so I guess I shouldn’t complain.

Can this woman spin, or what? 
My take on her is this—her family joined the Episcopal church when she was 9.  I doubt she got much religious education in the Catholic church up to that point, and I’m not sure how much, if any, she got in the Episcopal church after that.  It’s possible she never encountered serious orthodox teachings in her life.  Later she goes to a liberal seminary and takes in everything she’s taught w/out question.  She’s surrounded by people giving her their new form of Christianity.  It never crosses her mind that there really IS any other form.  Sure, there are some right wing wackos, but nobody she respects takes them seriously.  Then she goes to this Primates meeting.  There are some pretty heavy and impressive guys there.  (The fact that they’re African probably makes them even more impressive to her.)  For the first time she sees that she and her buddies at home actually represent a minority,  heterodox form of Christianity.  Not that this changes her mind, but it starts her to thinking that maybe she can’t just blow off this way of belief which has been around for almost 2,000 years before she was ever born.  She comes home somewhat chastened.  She likes her first taste of what it means to be a Primate among Primates and now she thinks maybe it would be cool to stay in the club.  Unfortunately she’s going to have to do a 180 on what she’s been preaching up to this point.  So….a NEW spin.  “By SEEMING to abandon our principles, we’ll be setting ourselves up to be in a position where we’ll actually have a BETTER chance of spreading our viewpoint (by staying in the Communion) then if we just acted with integrity and refused to compromise our beliefs.”  This way, she can have it both ways!  Whether anybody buys it or not remains to be seen.

Please friends, remember that she is not an orthodox Christian.  She has political and sociological views that she is either defending or advancing…but there is not a thread of theology in her argumentation.  It is still all about inclusion and unity.  So whether she gives a little here or there…she is a non-Christian (in any classical sense) leading the church.

It can’t work.

And I think she knows what she has done…and might feel a bit sorry for it.  Twice—once on the floor of the HOD and again in Tanzania—she has sold her personal convictions for the sake of inclusion…being inclusive and being included.

I feel sorry for her…

I hadn’t given the primates credit for the wisdom they have demonstrated.  They have created a scenario many of us would not have imagined.  Optimism at this late stage is difficult at best, but it sure looks like they divined a plausible response for an impossible situation; making the best with what they have to work with…and it looks like they decided to try and work Schiori.  Will be brilliant if anything comes of it.

In the audio she makes the claim that the Primates are looking for ‘official authorization’ of liturgies and same sex unions.  Is she correct or are the other opinions that no same sex unions will be allowed within dioceses, authorized or not.

“Optimism at this late stage is difficult at best, but it sure looks like they divined a plausible response for an impossible situation;”

I’m going to have a small slice of optimism.
My diocese convention is soon coming up, and we have an Anglican Caucus scheduled…and we are not a Windsor Diocese…

...yet. : )

1 Tim. 6:12

...in which the Anglican Communion can continue to discuss issues that many Anglicans would rather avoid.

Maybe I misread the Communique, but I got the distinct impression that the time for conversation was over and the time for action had come.

This press release is most unfortunate.  It is confusing at best and largely uninformative.  Whether this is due principally to Dr. Schori or to the reporter is unclear.  Neither could I access the recording;  if anyone could post it in another format or post the transcript, that might help.  But I think this press release will confuse many people, a regrettable consequence at this time.

Actually, I think much of what is being said concerning the PB’s motivation in agreeing to the communique is a bit off the mark. I think there is another way to look at her response.  And what way is that, you might ask.

If the PB adopts the sort of “not on my watch” attitude that many of the TEC bishops have espoused in their letters responding to the primates communique and key recommendations, and TEC is excluded from the AC, how can TEC remain a voice, as she phrases it, to

ensure that the conversation about the inclusion of gays and lesbians in the church continues

within the (very much) larger global community that the AC represents? Recall that, even at the possibly overgenerous estimate of 2.4 million members, TEC represents a mere 3.1% of the total membership of the AC.

By entering a period of “fasting” from advocacy of full gay inclusion, TEC can, at least as long as they can stand to do so, retain the possibility of changing the views of a majority of the remainder of the AC.

Mind you, I don’t necessarily think this is a conscious decision on her part, but I do believe it could well be her motivation. But whether arising consciously or unconsciously, it would seem to explain many of the seeming contradictions in her public stances over her tenure in the episcopacy.

“clear recognition that authorizing means official published liturgies. We talked about pastoral care and that it goes on in many places not just this church and I think a recognition that it has been part of the conversation .... that we are called from effective pastoral care for all perple. We are being called to refrain from authorizing” 

I think that the ABC has an issue on his hands of two completely different interpretations of the same wording. I hope he will move swiftly to clarify exactly what this did mean.

The mp3 ends very abruptly and it is difficult to believe the talk ended like that. I wonder what came next that we aren’t allowed to hear.

+KJS is very clear that she and the TEC are going to continue the course the TEC is sailing on…and on..and on…  This group will not stop until it has engulfed the rest of the Communion.  It should be abundantly clear to the rest of the primates.  The question is how many of them have bought into this.  The disdain in her voice for those opposing was loud and clear—not so inclusive.

The commnet that who’s in the Anglican Communion is only up to Canterbury and York and that’s all that matters was interesting.  That Rowan “slapped down” the “theory” doesn’t make it any less real; but was not surprising after seeing the sub-committee report.

+KJS and like-minded TEC bishops will draw this out as long as they can, for the end-goal is not reconciliation, but capitulation. 

Shame the Q&A wasn’t taped, too.  Felt like the last part of what she said was chopped off.

Would have more respect if +KJS and the TEC were honest and openly rejected what’s been asked of them rather than playing these games.  But the games have gotten them where they are.

This is tacky and petty of me to say, BUT…

I have a hard time listening to her because she has that NPR voice.