McGreevy at GTS: No Longer Just a Rumor

McGreevey has already applied to the renowned General Theological Seminary in Manhattan and is awaiting word of whether he has been accepted to the program there

I’m willing to bet that he will not only be accepted but GTS will give him a complete financial aid package.  Expect TEC at 815 2nd Avenue to create an employment opportunity for his “spouse.”

Oh, this is absolutely sick. I hope that the dean of the seminary reads the accounts on the website of the man who says not only did he not have an affair with McGreevey but that he was sexually assaulted by him. I hope they take his wife’s accounts into consideration, too.

I saw her on Oprah yesterday, btw, and the info she gave was disgusting. McGreevey is a very immature and confused individual, at best.

Apparently, being gay excuses everything.  With the sole exception of canons related to money, property, and episcopal power (can’t be lax about any of those, of course), the everyday ethics of TEC have effectively become antinomian.

Does any one know if Jim applied to other seminaries?  If he doesn’t get accepted at GTS and goes to VTS then some lucky parish in the Diocese of Virginia would get him on staff as their seminarian.  That would be a deserving fate for the moderates still holding out in liberal parishes.

The presideing Bishop just refered to ancient Christian practice.  Here is some ancient Christian teaching by a Bishop.  Here is one passage from the Church Father Irenaeus, (This Bishop was the child that sat in Christ’s lap when he blessed the children) said concering the sin of homosexuality (Sodomites).  Notice he says these sins cause others to commit the sin of apostacy!

Irenaeus Against Heresies Book IV, Chapter XLI

Wherefore the prophet David says, “Man, being placed in honour, is made like unto cattle.”647 And again Jeremiah says, “They are become like horses, furious about females; each one neighed after his neighbour’s wife.”648 And Isaiah, when preaching in Judea, and reasoning with Israel, termed them “rulers of Sodom” and “people of Gomorrah; ”649 intimating that they were like the Sodomites in wickedness, and that the same description of sins was rife among them, calling them by the same name, because of the similarity of their conduct. And inasmuch as they were not by nature so created by God, but had power also to act rightly, the same person said to them, giving them good counsel, “Wash ye, make you clean; take away iniquity from your souls before mine eyes; cease from your iniquities.”650 Thus, no doubt, since they had transgressed and sinned in the same manner, so did they receive the same reproof as did the Sodomites. But when they should be converted and come to repentance, and cease from evil, they should have power to become the sons of God, and to receive the inheritance of immortality which is given by Him. For this reason, therefore, He has termed those “angels of the devil,” and “children of the wicked one,”651 who give heed to the devil, and do his works. But these are, at the same time, all created by the one and the same God. When, however, they believe and are subject to God, and go on and keep His doctrine, they are the sons of God; but when they have apostatized and fallen into transgression, they are ascribed to their chief, the devil—to him who first became the cause of apostasy to himself, and afterwards to others.

Roberts, Alexander ;  Donaldson, James ;  Coxe, A. Cleveland: The Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol.I : Translations of the Writings of the Fathers Down to A.D. 325. Oak Harbor : Logos Research Systems, 1997, S. 525

McGreevey is a very immature and confused individual, at best.

In that case, he’ll fit right in.

I can’t wait for the movie, “Swinging My Way,” starring Bing Crosby as Father McGreevey.

I don’t subscribe to the New York Post, but to get an understanding of one of the issues allegedly in dispute between Father McGreevey and his ex-wife, you should look at the 4/22 online edition. 

Incredibly, he is asking for custody and child support.

By the standards of SF, I’m probably a raging liberal, but I think this a very wrong-headed decision on the part of the diocesan commission on ministry. While I accept that notorious public sinners can and do repent, some going on to become effective ministers of the Gospel (let’s all start humming “Amazing Grace” here), I object to McGreevey’s aspiration to Holy Orders at this time because his notorious public sins are too recent for the nature of his repentance (even within the context of considering monogamous same-sex relationships blessed) to be fully discerned. More to the point, he hasn’t been an Episcopalian long enough, in my book, to be a leader. You need to follow a bit first.

More to the point, he hasn’t been an Episcopalian long enough, in my book, to be a leader.

William, in many people’s books twelve years after being ordained as a “priest” wasn’t long enough to be Presiding Bishop.  Of course none of these twelve years were spent as a rector in a parish of any size at all.  I’m sure that Bishop Beckwith of Newark felt the “holy spirit” was at work.

Given the state of TEC, why does he even have to bother with seminary?  He should just call himself a priest through the workings of the Holy Spirit, who cannot be bound by such things as formal education or training, and be assigned a church in the Diocese of Newark.

McGreevey, who often described himself as a devout Catholic while in public office, was officially received into the Episcopal religion on Sunday…

Well at least they are finally acknowledging that it is a separate religion.

I saw his ex-wife being interviewed by Diane Sawyer. She seems to be a very hurt but gracious woman. It is bizarre to the extreme that considers her statement that he is bisexual a scandalous insult, but he takes pride in being a “gay American” (who has two ex-wifes and children with them). Hey, lgBt crowd. This guy is dissin’ you.

I was reading a message on Susan Russell’s site and there was a discussion of practicing monogamous bisexuals. One reader expressed his doubt about how this can be done and Susan responded: “***Ignorance alert***” (and she still didn’t explain how this can be done).

Keep looking at the calendar and no, it’s not April 1.  Keep pinching myself, nope not dreaming.  I must have been abducted by aliens to an anti-matter universe, as in, what WAS right is NOW wrong and what WAS wrong is now RIGHT.
If I click my heels together twice can I get back home?

...twelve years after being ordained as a “priest” wasn’t long enough to be Presiding Bishop.  Of course none of these twelve years were spent as a rector in a parish of any size at all. 

I have issues with that, too, but given that ++KJS was merely a marine biologist and not a divorced, multiple adulterer (to say nothing of a practicing politician), I suppose I can live with it.

On a related side note, were I given fiat to enact one reform in TEC, I’d probably insist that all diocesan/national staff and, most importantly, seminary professors serve a minimimum of ten years in direct parish ministry before “elevation” to their loftier ministries.

I saw this rumor last week.  He should fit in well with the people that run this church.  The really amazing thing is not so much his homosexuality, as his life the past few years…..

adultery
sexual manipulation
public corruption and cronyism
Lying to the public
shameless self-promotion
and now on top of it all…

a nasty custody fight with his wife…

sounds like God is calling him to be an Episcopal priest.

I can here it now:

Yes, well let’s see your CV sir. 

Oh I see here you used your last job to provided a high paying sensative job to you unqualified homosexual lover and paid for it from the “collection”. And you say they turned you out?  Well, I don’t understand that.

We do have one problem here, you don’t seem to have gone through the Gene Robinson Divorce/Communion Rite.  It’s not an “official” rite yet - just a “new thing” we’re trying.  You know, so you can say there was something spirtitual about your adultary and the breaking of your wedding vows.

The article says he is only to be confirmed THIS SUNDAY.

Also, Gawker reports that he is not being sponsored by the Diocese of Newark, who quote “wanted nothing to do with him.”  Take it for what it’s worth.

A gay, disgraced former state governor going to seminary and becoming an Episcopal priest may be newsworthy today, but it’s nothing compared with what’s coming in the next few years.  Ten or fifteen years from now a story like this will only generate a yawn and a reply of “so?”  When a practising Wiccan, transgender, pedophile can become a TEC priestess and preside at an abortion liturgy, then you’ll have something truly newsworthy.

“You don’t enter into it unadviseably.”

McGreevey has been duly advised:  You’re a shoo-in!

This is all so *stupid* words fail…

NB The NY Post article clearly stated that he is just starting to go through discernment at the Parish level.  then he will go on to the NY Comm on Ministry.  he has not been there yet.  In DNY it takes a long time to get through th Comm on Ministry

I truly don’t understand all this fuss and attention given to this McGreevy character. As seminary candidate, I must assume that he is run-of-the-mill. What am I missing? Is it because I don’t own a TV and don’t know who’s going the round of the talk shows? Or is it just because I’m no longer in TEC and am not required to regard him as a fellow Christian?

When a practising Wiccan, transgender, pedophile can become a TEC priestess and preside at an abortion liturgy, then you’ll have something truly newsworthy.

Come on Dave…we’ve had Druids and that wasn’t a big deal.

RSB

“not required to regard him as a fellow Christian”

Sorry, that was uncharitable. I should have said I don’t have to rub elbows with him in my Christian fellowship. Membership in TEC (as opposed to, say, Jehovah’s witnesses) does not yet disqualify one from being regarded as a fellow Christian.

It’s my understanding that Bennison(PA) had practicing Wiccans as priests in his diocese, and there’s at least one transgender in the “process” in the Diocese of Massachusetts. 

Those “in the know” in those dioceses, feel free to weigh in. 

Maybe, also, someone resident in the Diocese of NY should put a call in to Sisk’s office and ask, “What up with this?” 

The Church needs this person as an aspirant right now like I need a hole in the head. 

What a repugnant display.

The NY Post article clearly stated that he is just starting to go through discernment at the Parish level.  ...  In DNY it takes a long time to get through th Comm on Ministry

I didn’t read that article. Knowing that changes my perception somewhat, but, were I a rector, I’d still suggest a period of formation as active Episcopal layman before considering ordained ministry. Recent to any church are always incredibly romantic about their new spiritual home. A year or two during parish committee work usually takes the bloom of THAT rose, though.

Seemed to have dropped a couple words in my above post—most important is “Recent converts to any church are always incredibly romantic….”

Write to The Rev. Bean—politely but firmly:  .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Make our protest known!  This is such cheap grace!

The Rev. Bean, Vicar of St. Bartholomew’s, is reported as saying:

You don’t enter into it unadviseably.

(emphasis added)

I certainly hope that this is a misquote on the part of the reporter, rather than a correct quote of a, presumably, educated cleric. Unadvisedly, according to the Free On-line Dictionary, is not a recognized word, although it would seem to be the adverbial form of unadvised, i.e., (a) “having received no advice; not informed” or (b) “carried out without careful deliberation; imprudent.” If, on the other hand, the intended word was inadvisibly, this is a recognized word that is synonymous with expediently, meaning either (a) “serving to promote one’s interest” or (b) “based on or marked by a concern for self-interest rather than principle; self-interested.” I presume that this would also be automatically disqualifying, although, in the present age, perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised at much of anything coming out of TEC, where systematic theology has been reduced to the Gospel of Social Action.

On a peripherally related note, I am getting a bit tired of the use of the term gay to describe male homosexuals. Gay has very specific connotations as to the elements of one’s lifestyle—I won’t bother going into the details. So it is possible to be homosexual and not be gay. In fact, a male homosexual who is either (a) celibate, or (b) faithfully monogamous, then, by definition, they are NOT gay!

Words express ideas, and ideas have consequences. Let us be about calling things (all things) by their rightful names. Communication is about being clear and unambiguous, as in “Let your yes be yes, and your no be no.”

Regards and blessings.
Martial Artist

I’ve got CNN on right now and Wolf Blitzer just announced, “You won’t believe what Jim McGreevey is planning to do now!” Tune in at 7 p.m. Eastern time. I hope the Wolfster asks very pointed questions!

RobRoy,
About the

practicing monogamous bisexuals

to the best of my knowledge, it can only be done serially, as in the case of the multiply-married and multiply-divorced, who are sometimes referred to as “serially monogamous.”

Here’s the statement from the former alleged lover. It was read on Oprah yesterday. Do check out the website it refers to. I plan to send these links to Rev. Bean.

We asked Golan Cipel to respond to Jim McGreevey’s account of the alleged relationship and Golan asked us to emphasize that there are two sides of the story and he sent us this statement. These are his words:

“I claim that Jim McGreevey sexually assaulted and harassed me and maintain that only after ongoing attempts to destroy my life and after he repeatedly threatened me, I finally found the courage to confront him and file a lawsuit against him, which I believe led to his immediate resignation. I strongly believe that in an attempt to cover up his acts against me, McGreevey, chose to lie and describe it as a ‘consensual affair,’ which of course it was not.

I deeply regret the suffering that Dina and Jacqueline have had to endure; they were in fact the main reasons why I didn’t take legal action against Jim McGreevey for a long time. I did so only when I felt that my life was in danger.

I ask Dina and the viewers to read my website at http://www.cipelgolan.com and to learn more about my story.

In this terrible tragedy there is only one bad person to blame, and it is Jim McGreevey. All the rest are his victims.”

Martial Artist-

“Unadviseably”

Perhaps he misspoke or perhaps he is misquoted by the reporter.  I think the underlying reference is to the BCP, applying the stricture on marriage to ordination:  “marriage is not to be entered into unadvisedly or lightly, but reverently, deliberately, and in accordance with the purposes for which it was instituted by God.”

Mr. Rolf: “I think this a very wrong-headed decision on the part of the diocesan commission on ministry.”
Read again. The ex-governor has not reached the diocesan commission on ministry—he is now in the discernment process at the parish level, a preliminary (and sometimes long) stage of aspiration. Many people go through this stage of the process and do not reach the diocesan commission on ministry.

robroy: “I was reading a message on Susan Russell’s site and there was a discussion of practicing monogamous bisexuals. One reader expressed his doubt about how this can be done and Susan responded: “***Ignorance alert***” (and she still didn’t explain how this can be done).”
It is all quite simple, actually—it is called commitment and fidelity to spouse. There are even heterosexuals who practice monogamy… One’s sexuality has nothing to do with one’s faithfulness to one’s spouse.

Bob Moody has a transgendered deacon in Oklahoma. A convicted murderer has become a priest in Kalifornia. Former Governor Gay American family betraying wife cheating state fund absconder McGreevy will fit right in.

PadreWayne,
Someone with McGreevey’s history should not even be in parish “discernment.” He should have been told flat-out that he was unsuitable for the priesthood when he inquired. Since he has already applied to seminary, he must have received some encouragement.

The comments after the article show the lack of respect many have for TEC.

‘“...practicing monogamous bisexuals.  One reader expressed his doubt about how this can be done and Susan responded: “***Ignorance alert***” (and she still didn’t explain how this can be done).”

Since they are only practicing I guess they have not yet perfected any arrangement.  No doubt it involves the drawing of straws, multiple dwelling places and a very detailed appointment calendar.  Mustn’t forget those special occassions.

practicing monogamous bisexuals - wow talk about an oxymoron.  Let’s examine this claim.

First the definition of a bi-sexual - Relating to or having a sexual orientation to persons of either sex. If you agree with the definition, you must therefore agree that to practice this orientation, one is therefore, at a minimum, accepting of a dual sex attraction.  Does this mean that in order to be a faithful and monogamous bi-sexual one must have sex with only one individual at a time?  Isn’t that repression of God-given desires?  Or does the bi-sexual have to repress the attraction for one of the sexes?  Again, how does this square with the party line of the reappraisers?
I don’t know if I can find it but someone on Mark Harris’ or Jake’s site answered this question as (forgive the paraphrase) an individual who basically has multiple relationships but only one at a time.  Special, huh?

At least he’s not being sponsored by Newark—New York has the excuse that they don’t know him as well as we do here in Joisey.

Brit said:

I’ve got CNN on right now

Thankfully, I don’t. I was in a hotel room month before last and discovered how badly CNN has degenerated since the day I got addicted to it (for 2 years!) right after 9/11. CNN today is what Fox was not too long ago, and on their way to what Fox is now, i.e. news is not news, news is entertainment. Thank God for BBC World News!

The comments after the article show the lack of respect many have for TEC.

How true. And it’s not going to get better. My great-grandmother, who brought faith in the Catholic Apostolic Church (an Anglican offshoot, believe it or not) with her from Germany, was horrified when she learned that my grandfather was not going to church because the CAC had stopped having meetings. She shook her finger at him and scolded, “Go to the Episcopal church, because they’re the closest!”

After 50 years personally in the PEC (Protestant Episcopal Church, remember that?) I concluded that enough was enough, and when my church bolted to Africa from under the Bishop of Los Angeles, I was not displeased. TEC’s lack of respect has been well-earned at its leadership level.

from DaveW:

Ten or fifteen years from now a story like this will only generate a yawn and a reply of “so?” When a practising Wiccan, transgender, pedophile can become a TEC priestess and preside at an abortion liturgy, then you’ll have something truly newsworthy.

I doubt it will be ten years before the newsworthy will be in the news… well perhaps in the discernment process this current in-the-news aspirant(?) will be taken aside and have explained how his faith can lead him willingly into a new life, one in which he will be very repentant of his various actions, shall we say, those non-disputables.

By the time this aspirant makes it through the ‘process’ there will be nothing noteworthy about hom and those like him receiving ‘holy’ orders, and the TV interview circuit will have forgotten about him.

Maybe as part of a work studies program he could get a job at 815    
giving messages.

I’m sorry, Old Soldier, was that a typo for “massages”?

Too true.. Sorry

Mr. Rolf: “I think this a very wrong-headed decision on the part of the diocesan commission on ministry.”
Read again. The ex-governor has not reached the diocesan commission on ministry—he is now in the discernment process at the parish level…

As I, in another post I made prior to yours, stated I learned in a different article, Padre Wayne. Thanks for the clarification. Part of my confusion stemmed from the practice of my own diocese to view with extreme prejudice anyone who begins seminary before completing both parish and diocesan discernment.

Also, it’s probably important for all to note that General has not accepted the former governors application yet and may not. But given their finances, if he can pay full freight, they’ll probably accept him and they won’t, EDS will.

Tacky,tacky orthodox boys and girls. While I’m pleased that the former gov has turned his interests to G-d, even the dreadful New York revisionists are prescient enough to know that Mr. McGreevey has no business in seminary this decade. Hold your breath till you’re blue in the face waiting for scandal. Maybe this sinner has found a new life, but he clearly will not make it through the discernment process anytime soon. Funny that you are all so dismissive of the foolish, secular press until it gives you an opportunity to act the hyena against the Episcopal Church.And close with: we’ll pray for McGreevey, as you often do, whether you mean it or not.

Rolf,
They’re saying on the news and in this newspaper that GTS HAS accepted him and he’s going to begin the Masters of Divinity program in the fall. Is this not true?

Jason S,

Yes, I was reasonably confident that the word intended was “unadvisedly”. I am just appalled at the standard of language among supposedly well-educated people in our nation today—whether elected officials/aspiring clergy or journalists. Please note that the principal “tool of the trade” of the latter in an English speaking country is the English language.

Regards,
Martial Artist

Rolf,
They’re saying on the news and in this newspaper that GTS HAS accepted him and he’s going to begin the Masters of Divinity program in the fall. Is this not true?

The reporting now says he was accepted. At the time I posted, GTS was declining comment. I’m not sure where the confirmation came from, but you’re quite correct—it appears to be a definite.

Is it typical in Diocese of NY that one enters seminary before completing diocesan discernment?

Assuming he has been accepted as reported, it is a slam dunk he will be accepted by a Bishop in TEC and will have a clerical collar on in three years.  Its silly to pretend otherwise.

via orthodoxy:  The deacon ordained by +Moody was a married man at the time of his ordination.  He would later come out to his priest, who then told all and sundry, in direct contravention of the confidentiality that is supposed to be held by a priest.  The ensuing furor tore the parish in two.  The priest left the diocese (thankfully) in some disgrace.  +Moody behaved very pastorally toward the deacon, inhibited him for 5 years (as I recall), giving the deacon the chance to have the surgery and adjust to her new life, at which point the issue of her ministry would be reviewed—with no guarantees; a firm but merciful judgment without causing more harm than had already been done.  As it turned out, the deacon would later renounce her orders to be a minister in the UCC.  She is an outspoken advocate for those who face struggles such as hers.

I would have some issues with having this person in the ordained ministry (were she still in TEC), but I have also been witness to her struggle and know that it was honest and deep—however incomprehensible this may be to us.  I know some (Voldemort Online) get great pleasure out of bringing this incident up again and again, but the truth of the matter is much more intricate, difficult and saddening.

In regards to McGreevy:  I am not thrilled about this prospect, but it appears that he has only just begun the process to move toward ordained ministry.  There will be trials ahead for him.  Perhaps he will face those trials truthfully and repentantly before God.  Maybe he would become a fine priest.  Only God knows.  Meanwhile, let’s pray for him—that his heart and mind will be illuminated with the Truth.

To Jackie and Paula, who make a joke of bisexuals:  A bisexual, as I posted before, is a person who can experience attractions toward members of either sex.  However, a bisexual is just as capable of being in a comitted, monogamous relationship as a “straight” person.  It depends, as in “straight” relationships, on deciding or vowing that one will be faithful to one person.  As far as I can tell, and as evidenced by the current divorce rate, heterosexuals don’t seem to score very high on monogamy.  Why place bisexuals under the microscope?

McGreevey has been accepted to study at the General Theological Seminary in New York, the oldest in the Episcopal Church, school spokesman Bruce Parker said Wednesday. Parker did not know whether the former governor wants to become a priest.

This is from Roadrunner’s news for our area under the title “McGreevey to Enter Episcopal Seminary” under General Headlines.

http://www.rr.com/flash/index.cfm

We’ve known two people who would have been excellent priests who were denied before getting to the approval level this man has.  Amazing…and then again ,  NOT!!

CNN dot com has it now.

He’s admitted to GTS, but why isn’t he in jail?

The AP article has three salient points:
1. McGreevy was received into the Church only last Sunday.
2. McGreevy was admitted to GTS in the MDiv program (something that just about any of us could do if we wanted and met the academic standards required).
3. McGreevy has just begun the process of discernment, so there is no telling if he will become a priest.

“McGreevy was admitted to GTS in the MDiv program (something that just about any [one without moral standards] could do if we wanted and met the academic standards required).

Sadly, true.

“McGreevy has just begun the process of discernment, so there is no telling if he will become a priest.”

He will be one if he wants to be one, its silly to pretend otherwise.

The General Theological Seminary is a school with the mission of preparing ordained and lay leaders of the church. While it is unusual to attend seminary before reaching postulancy, it is not unheard of. The DioNY has a stringent aspirant-postulant process; McGreevey has only just begun, and there is never a guarantee of ordination. While this story (from, of all places, the Post) may be titillating, it is hardly worth the virulent commentary above (apologies to the exceptions).
Via Orthodoxy (above, re: the transgendered and convicted criminal): What is it about the word grace that you do not understand?
Berggasse 19: Thank you for those comments. A voice of reason sadly lacking on this thread.

This is just plain sickening…

Martial Artist said:

I am just appalled at the standard of language among supposedly well-educated people in our nation today—whether elected officials/aspiring clergy or journalists. Please note that the principal “tool of the trade” of the latter in an English speaking country is the English language.

MA, our advanced education is manifest in how few children we have, not in how well we know our Websters or Rogets.

McGreevy was admitted to GTS in the MDiv program, (something that just about any of us could do if we wanted and met the academic standards required).

This is simply not true.  I’ve just checked the GTS application form, which is on-line.  Every application requires four letters of recommendation, including one from the applicant’s parish priest or pastor.  Every applicant must include an autobiographical statement.  The application says Please focus on why you feel called to the study of spirituality and how you anticipate using this formation in your life of faith and ministry .  There also has to be a personal interview.

Finally, there are two tracks (pre-ordination and non-ordination) for the M.Div. degree.  Perhaps McGreevy has been placed on the non-ordination track.  However,several friends quoted in this morning’s Star-Ledger, as well as the head of a NJ gay activist group, assert that McGreevy has long been interested in the priesthood, and that he will make a fine priest (!) .  If McGreevy is taking the pre-ordination M.Div., then he must also have a letter from the Bishop stating that the candidate is known to him, that the canonical process has begun, and that the bishop concurs with the applicant’s desire to proceed.

To bergstrasse and Padre Wayne:  Let me assure you that if McGreevy had left his wife for another woman, and were conducting himself this way, I would be just as horrified.  Yes, grace is possible, but there would need to be a long period of repentance and reform before someone this cruel and corrupt would begin to be suitable for the priesthood.

This makes perfect sense!  A politician who abandons his wife after a marriage of failure on his part becomes gay and then decides to become an Episcopal Priest.  What other denomination thinks that spirituality is good politiking and sexual immorality?  Oh, and I like how he left the Catholics because they wouldn’t endorse him because of his abortion policy.  Have no fear McGreevey, the Episcopal Church will take you on, you sound just like the kind of leader we want, divorced, homosexual, and a supporter of murder.  We love sinners so much so that we let them become the norm of our church rather than our Savior Jesus Christ.  However, there is only one sin we can’t tolerate: biblical orthodoxy.  Now, McGreevey, were you to actually believe what the Bible says and actually believe the ancient words we say each Sunday, then we would have to kick you out.

With K.J. Schori at the helm and V.G. Robinson recognized as the affirmed “poster child” of TEC, there is a lot more of this to come.

It stinks to high heaven and is drawing the worst rather than the best to its ranks.

The ship is slipping quickly now. . . . everyone to the lifeboats. . . . women and children first.

I was just telling my daughter about this.  She left the Episcopal Church a number of years ago, primarily over the gay issue.  She is now a Roman Catholic, active in her church and sending her kids to Catholic school.  Her comment, in jest, but unfortunately true, is it sounds like the Episcopal Church is taking the Catholic rejects!

In Newark:  I think the point is that, at this moment, we don’t know exactly on what contingency McG was admitted to GTS.  From what I understand of the process, a person must be an Episcopalian for three years BEFORE beginning the true discernment process.  Now, it is possible that McG is speeding things up by getting most of the academic stuff now (and I still maintain that it’s not at all unheard of for a lay person to study at a seminary).  Thus, in three years’ time he could enter the “true” discernment process and already have most of the seminary work behind him.  He’d just have to take a few additional classes, perhaps, to finish those requirements.

Look, I’m not AT ALL thrilled with the thought of this particular man as a priest.  I, too, am a bit ashamed and more than a bit tentative.  However, I’m also of the mind that this will be a test of McG’s faith and intent.  We’ll see what happens in the future.  Meanwhile, barring the Second Coming, the world will not collapse.

And, as a note, my screen-name is bergGASSE19.  In my second homeland of Austria, most “strasses” are replaced with “gasse.”  There is something special about this address, as I’m a psychologist.  I know of one poster who caught the allusion.

Berggasse19—Sorry about the mishap with your name. 
Of course this isnt’ the end of the world, but it could be the end of GTS, which would be newsworthy in and of itself.  I’ve got today’s Star -Ledger in front of me, so I can fill you in on a few things.
My main point was, that whether he’s on ordination track or not, the Seminary assesses a good deal more than his academic record (which is, admittedly, quite good.)  And in fact, the Seminary spokesman acknowledged that McGreevy’s application was assessed by a committee of faculty members, plus a few students. 

Also, while a layman can certainly study theology (and the non-ordination track at GTS is precisely for that) , the vicar at McGreevy’s parish has confirmed that McGreevy has already begun the discernment process—even though he was only received into ECUSA on Sunday.  Now, since GTS strongly advises that prospective priests not begin their education without their bishop’s approval, it’s fair to assume that either a) Bishop Sisk or a suffragan did in fact write a letter supporting him or b) that GTS is letting him on the non-ordination track, but is prepared to switch him over—possible,but irregular.  The long and short of it is that he is NOT being admitted in the ordinary way—his parish, the Seminary and possibly the Bishop are bending all kinds of rules to let him in.

Not that the secular world is any better about him—the Ledger also confirms that he is teaching at at a NJ state university (Kean, in Elizabeth) in the Executive MBA program—the class is on law and ethics.

In Newark:  Many thanks for further facts as they become available…though some is still yet speculation.

LOL.  I find the “Law and Ethics” bit particularly entertaining!  I think we can all get a good laugh out of that, while the GTS issue is, conversely, rather disturbing.

To be honest, as an NJ taxpayer, I find the “law and ethics” class at a state-funded school pretty outrageous, too.  But I agree that the business at GTS is even worse.

From what I understand of the process, a person must be an Episcopalian for three years BEFORE beginning the true discernment process.

Picky! Picky! Picky!  Didn’t you get the memo?  God is doing a new thing!

the vicar at McGreevy’s parish has confirmed that McGreevy has already begun the discernment process—even though he was only received into ECUSA on Sunday.

Is it this hard to find priests? An acquaintance of mine who wasn’t even Christian was packed off to Yale to become a priest by the priest of a church she had visited a few times. Obviously the priesthood is just a job to TEC. Faith, discernment not really necessary?

“Law and Ethics”, as taught by any of the vast majority of politicians (at least contemporary U.S. politicians), makes the same sort of sense as Law Enforcement taught by a mob capo, i.e., How to pretend to be both legal and ethical. In addition to being generally challenged, they tend, as a class, to be not only ethically challenged, but epistemologically challenged!

Thanks for bringing me up to date on the details of the transgendered deacon bergasse, I appreciate it. Bob Moody behaving pastorally is a mind boggler to me after seeing him crush any orthodox priest he could. As for “Padre Wayne” yes I believe in grace and no I don’t at all understand it (and neither do you, as it is a gift from Our Lord). I believe generally that grace is bestowed on those who are penitent rather than strut proudly in their sinfullness.

via orthodoxy:  glad that I could provide details.  However, I must admit that I don’t really understand your claim that you have seen +Moody “crush” orthodox priests, as I’ve never been privy to that sort of action.  Remember that +Moody came from TX, went to VTS and when elected to the Episcopacy was at Grace Church Alexandria (VA).  I’ve always considered him at least a moderate.  It’s true that, beginning in ‘00, his views toward the participation of homosexuals in the Church took a turn, and this is something he has spoken on.  It was definitely a change of mind brought about by a number of events.  In the ensuing free-for-all of defecting parishes, Moody has attempted to find a peaceful solution when possible.  It’s true that he did go after +Cox, but it can also be argued that it was his duty as a diocesan to do so.  +Cox has been stirring the pot in ways that the general populace is unaware of, and +Moody is required to protect the unity of the Church, particularly as found in his diocese. 

I have great respect for the man.  He’s not had an easy time of it and he has done his best to remain honest and faithful.  The struggle has had serious effects on his health and he finally gave up trying to remain in office until after the next Lambeth meeting.

Any of the div schools will take what they can get.

Besides his presentment charges against +Cox, Moody has also sent letters threatening the Ohio 5, and ++ Duncan for ordaining a deacon to be resident in Oklahoma. He has refused to allow +Wantland to officiate in Oklahoma, and was zealous in pursuing the fleeing parish of St James in OKC. Moody is no moderate.

I know nothing of letters regarding the Ohio 5, but can understand his ire at +Duncan for ordaining a deacon to be sent into his diocese.  Wouldn’t any bishop?  I understand that there is a long background story behind +Wantland, details to which I’m not privy, nor, I imagine, are you.  I don’t know what “zealous in pursuing the fleeing parish of St. James” means, but my recollection of events was that they voted to leave, he told them they could leave but not take the property with them, and that was the end of it.

Perhaps PadreWayne needs a postulant for his ministry? 
Fortunately, even if accepted to seminary and discerned to be so “gifted”, this chap will never sneak by on his past.  He has name recognition galore.

From the Diocese of New York, hoping to put an end to conjecture, innuendo, and false assumptions and aspersions:

“The General Theological Seminary has confirmed that Mr. Jim McGreevey has been accepted to the Seminary’s three-year Master of Divinity program and will begin taking courses this coming September. Mr. McGreevey was received into the Episcopal Church on Sunday, April 29th at St. Bartholomew, Manhattan.  He has not yet entered into the parish phase of the discernment process for ordination,  and therefore the Diocese has no direct knowledge of him or his interests.”

In that case, Padre Wayne, the Diocese is directly contradicting the statement of Rev. Bean of St. Bartholomew’s, as quoted in today’s Star-Ledger.  This will, of course, only give rise to yet more conjecture.

Newark, I just read that myself, and so I’m backing off this thread with a bit of embarrassment. Or something. Obviously (to me) there’s some glitches in communication…

SF maybe interested to know that APF has covered this story and Yahoo! filed it under Odd News along with such stories as “Frog juice in high demand in Peru,” & “3,500 lbs. of bat guano found in attic.” I just thought you’d like to know.

Remember that +Moody came from TX, went to VTS and when elected to the Episcopacy was at Grace Church Alexandria (VA).  I’ve always considered him at least a moderate.

berggasse19:  You might think so but that is your opinion.  Grace is a liberal parish even by the standards of the liberal Diocese of Virginia. A number of liberal priests have served there.  Quite a few liberal seminarians did their service training at Grace.  Moody is no moderate.

+Cox has been stirring the pot in ways that the general populace is unaware of, and +Moody is required to protect the unity of the Church, particularly as found in his diocese.

Oh, right.  Bishop Cox, that Dangerous and Crafty Insurgent who goes about fomenting unrest among the ignorant rabble.  Give me a break.  “Moderate Moody” my aspergilium.

1.  Don’t we believe in God’s power to change hearts and transform lives (assuming the guv is a repentant sinner)?
2.  Unless this is something very new, seminaries don’t accept into the MDiv program, anyone not approved for postulancy.  Anyone can attend seminary in the MA program but not in the ordination track.
3.  Who in their right minds would accept into the discernment process, someone presently involved in a messy, scandalous divorce and custody action?  He may have repented of his deceit and betrayal of his wife, family and constituents, but while the drama unfolds in the public arena, how can discerning God’s will be at the heart of his activity?
4.  Yeah, I know - he is a “partnered gay man.”  But this is EXCUSA and if they want that in ministry, I no longer care.  You can find me at the local evangelical church that is growing and winning disciples for Christ, not marchers in the “Pride” parade.