The (Real) Story of Greg

Greg,
Don’t leave home without her.

Mrs. Griffith,
Take a bottle to your husband’s head for introducing you to more public scrutiny than you ever thought or dreamed possible.

Oh, that’s hardly fair.  You’ve only posted a photograph of Mrs. Griffith, while Elizabeth Kaeton has bared more of her soul and far less of her figure in her Internet presence.  I don’t doubt that if we were given more of Mrs. Griffith’s (I’d use her first name as well if I knew it) attractiveness as a whole person to appreciate, we’d appreciate her more than a mere photograph will allow.

Mrs. Griffith deserves her own voice.

Otherwise, it’s just not fair.  I see the Rev. Kaeton smiling in the vestments of her service to Christ’s Church for pretty much my lifetime, and I see Mrs. Griffith smiling without any context other than her relationship to Greg Griffith.  Knowing what I know of Greg, I’d be surprised to hear that the smile of Mrs. Griffith (whose own name I’d like to know) isn’t grinned in its own context of service to Christ’s church—not as lengthy as that of Elizabeth Kaeton, but let’s not fault for people for being born in a different year—but I wouldn’t want to make any lasting judgment based solely upon association.

I make an exception in my own case; I think there’s nothing to speak better for the likes of me than the willingness of my honey to stick with the likes of me.  I suppose on that basis I can only commend Greg for thinking that it speaks well of him to see who’s willing to stand by him.  I’ll cook as gladly for Mrs. Griffith as for Greg as I would for Elizabeth and her partner and children, though I know the Griffiths recently from cyberspace and the family of Elizabeth+ though decades of their service to God’s children.

Would it be impious for me to suggest that our glory in any meaningful sense is reflected better by the souls we’ve served than by our our appearance?

Take a bottle to your husband’s head

But use a plastic bottle.

It’s time for you to go on shore leave, Greg.

You’ve only posted a photograph of Mrs. Griffith, while Elizabeth Kaeton has bared more of her soul and far less of her figure in her Internet presence ... we’d appreciate her more than a mere photograph will allow ... Would it be impious for me to suggest that our glory in any meaningful sense is reflected better by the souls we’ve served than by our our appearance?

Now, come on Dylan, she married to Greg, need we know more? She has to be a saint!

(Greg, there are few wiser choices you could have ever made!)

Greg, I am conflicted… I would love to compliment your wife without sounding like the Sexist, Boorish Pig they think we all are. 

How’s this… Shades of Roger Rabbit… (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)

I’m glad I wasn’t sipping coffee when I read that….

Too funny!  I have to say, however, it seems clear to me that Greg really married above himself.  Sometimes God gives us much better than we deserve, right Greg?

JFOMCALOL.  ; < (

You know Greg—several things are so funny.

First . . . they are reading StandFirm.  Just strange.  I have visited SR’s blog perhaps three times, and EK’s blog maybe four [counting the three times I traveled over to examine what she said about Matt’s wife.]

Second, this is it.  This is Truly . . . the best they can do, Greg!  I mean . . . that’s all they got?

Third, they should know something.  None of us at StandFirm will ever stop posting about the bizarre things that Kaeton says and does.  She just provides too much for us to possibly resist.

But just think how much we restrain ourselves?  Imagine the times that we don’t post??  ; > )

Greg—I think you forgot to mention THE reason why some of us bloggers have thought you were gay.  It’s not the cooking, man, or the singing from musicals.

It’s the sensitive, empathetic, caring way you have of communicating with all of us.  Nothing says “share your feelings”, “be who you are”, and “I affirm you” as much as Greg’s little emails.

This is Truly . . . the best they can do, Greg!  I mean . . . that’s all they got?

No… I think somewhere they called me a big stupid booty-head.

Dear Greg:

I think the most appropriate thing would be to call you “OUR Greggory” - as well as get those cute little Greg Griffith teddy bears to sell on StandFirm.  You could have a mouse in one bearlike paw and a picture of your wife in another.

If this kind of toro caca is any indication (and I think it is) of Greg and StandFirm’s effectiveness in exposing the true thinking of the rad-left LBGT crowd, then Greg is doing one helluva good job.

And I have to say, Mrs. Greg is extremely easy on the eyes.

the snarkster

as well as get those cute little Greg Griffith teddy bears to sell on StandFirm.  You could have a mouse in one bearlike paw and a picture of your wife in another.

And of course he must also be wearing a derriere chapeau… 

Why does this <a >one song</a> from the Producers keep popping into my head?

Rush has a theory about radical feminists. I’ll not repeat it, but boy does this prove it out.

Re: Kaeton and her soul saving.

So as to demonstrate to Sarah Dylan how civilized we are here at SF, I will have not a thing to say about Miss Lizzie. For me, that is harder than giving up cigarettes. 12 step buddies, call me up, this is too hard…...........

It’s the sensitive, empathetic, caring way you have of communicating with all of us.  Nothing says “share your feelings”, “be who you are”, and “I affirm you” as much as Greg’s little emails.

Oh. my.  Sarah, I need to know RIGHT now - are you near Louisiana?  I needed to know if I should get my lightning rod deflector at the ready.

Well, that was weird. My post above should have read “Why does this remind me of this topic?” with a link to a video.

I reckon it’s time for this musical loving, straight, white, married Episcopalian to brush up on his HTML.

I wonder, would Kaeton be flattered by Lisa’s suggestion that only a gay cowboy could find her attractive?

Well, now the truth of the situation has been exposed:

Actually ALL of us have Elizabeth Keaton posters all over our houses, on the steps and on the windows.  It was THE requirement you have to have to post comments on StandFirm.  I was cool with this until we had to buy the EK slip covers and EK embossed paper for the computer…

I actually have no agenda in my life EXCEPT to think about her… and her hot pink website - as hot pink has ALWAYS been my favorite color… next to fushia and pastel pink…

PS Greg - please do not let slip that you have on ‘the special users only’ a Elizabeth Keaton hot pink teddy bear that the ‘special people’ can buy to support StandFirm… it would be conclusive proof of our secret agenda…

mousestalker, looks like a simple typo: right clicking on this page and viewing source it looks like you typed href=” [link] ’ (closing with a single rather than a matching double quote) instead of href=” [link] “.
Remember, it’s never your fault, the stupid programs should be able to detect this.

Sẽnor Snarkster:  Bandera Amarillo!

Thank SpongJohn SquarePantheist. Here’s the proper linky.

HTML, bah!

The author of the blog “My Manner of Life” is very funny, but so off base. He doesn’t seem to realize there were two 10 Years Ago posts, writings by Stephen Noll and the Elizabeth Kaeton, that worked together to raise our historical understanding.

So, if they object to people finding their stuff on the Internet, why do they put it there so people can find it?  Just how many people would post ten-year-old sermons on their personal websites, anyway? Seems very egotistical (not to mention plain weird) to me.

Greg:  That’s for the clarification!  I had thought that you were married to the redheaded girl.  They are both easy on the eyes.

Greg, which picture did you say was of your wife?

I had thought that you were married to the redheaded girl.

Are you trying to get Greg in trouble?

I don’t have any comment on the pictures, but I do note that with lunch still 90 minutes away you have made me very hungry for a nice brie.  Thanks a lot :(

“Redheaded girl”?

Who eez thees ‘redheaded girl’?

Greg - think Charlie Brown and “the little redheaded girl”.

What do you think? Is it possible I’ve made the wrong choice?

Greg, it sounds like you are having doubts about the choice you made regarding the team.

I thought the post of Kaeton’s ten-year-old sermon was valid.  It came on the heels of the post of two of Stephen Noll’s ten-year-old essays, one of which quoted directly from the Kaeton sermon in question.  Together, they provided some historical perspective on how we arrived at our current state. 
From time to time, SF has posted material from the past.  No one has ever complained before.

Nice to know they’re continuing to spread their sunshine to all corners of the known universe… :-X

Just a reminder to SF posters that I hold the copyright to the “Derriere Chapeaus” but for a large licensing fee, I will release it for mass manufacturing and distribution amongst all card carrying Bottom Feeders and/or Vast Conspirators.  When yours comes in the mail, remember to open it in a room with plenty of ventilation.  You’ve been warned.  Our Motto: “By their headgear you shall know them.”

From time to time, SF has posted material from the past.  No one has ever complained before.

Quite true Jill but, apparently, the Worthy Opposition has just recently discovered that their words last forever on the internet. One thing is definitely true: The very best predictor of future performance is past performance.

the snarkster

Greg, it is definitely a case of res ipsa loquitur—-Rock on, SF!
Don

DonaldH - that’s Latin for “nanny nanny boo boo,” right?

I do want to laugh myself silly at such a post as this

BUT…

I do think you, Greg Griffith, bit some bait that ought not to have bitten.  In all love and charity my brother in the Lord, please show Ms. Keaton respect as a creature of God.

Your wife is lovely, by the way.  I am sure her smile is for you and Jesus…arn’t all genuine smiles.

No disrespect intended.

That’s good to hear.  I too have had the “gay” label thrown at me.  (I hung out with lesbians…indeed they were my only friends for a year of high school…but how a man hanging out with women makes me gay is beyond me.)

I am more interested in the fact that you are being called gay…by gay people…as if that’s supposed to be a derision.  Inconsistant at best, and the height of hypocracy at worst.

Well, Greg, if she loves Jesus, and can cook collards, ya done real good!

Greg- is that a 10 year old picture of Ms. Keaton? Your sense of humor is helpful in lightening the tension which seems to be ever increasing. as 9/30 approaches. Keep up the good work.

P.S. hope you got a signed release from your better half to publish that photo. No telling what it may be used for by those of the ilk who refer to you as the “Grand Dragon of the Inquisitors”!

The blog owner of “My Manner of Life” and her comments read much like tht of Harry Potter’s journalist twister of facts Rita Skeeter!  In ohter words nothing she writes or says can possibly be taken seriously and must be taken with a block of salt not a grain!

Greg, You have a beautiful wife and the only way these peoplecan strike out is with ridiculous assumptions that leave one with more than a chuckle that they couldn’t be more off track and spinning in the “Twilight Zone” of daftness, imbecilic, inane, etc….

I personally would love to know what Bishop Beckwith has done or plans to do about Their Elizabeth?

Just a reminder to SF posters that I hold the copyright to the “Derriere Chapeaus” but for a large licensing fee, I will release it for mass manufacturing and distribution amongst all card carrying Bottom Feeders and/or Vast Conspirators

uh-h-h-I dunno, Cindy T. in TX…  I think I may just have to take up using the term “booty-cap” instead… (Yikes!  I need a life!)

Re: “Our Elizabeth…”

They all seem to do that.  “Our Elizabeth”, “our Katherine”, “our Gene”, etc.  The velvet-rope treatment reserved solely for “our kind”, whatever that may be.

Re: ”Our Elizabeth…” They all seem to do that.

It’s also a British thing.  My friend from Yorkshire always refers to her sister as “our Carol” and her niece as “our Vicky” and I think it’s just a manner of speech there.  But to trot it out here in this way may just be a bit of highbrow-wannabe borrowing from the Brits.  Then again, maybe not.  Maaaayyybe it’s a new kind of 21st century slavery - like OWNING someone!!! GAD!

Is there any depth of pathetic, juvenile and un-Christian nonsense to which the SF crowd won’t sink ? Esp. when it comes to your obsession with the Rev. Kaeton ? I’d love to see an explanation of how this furthers the Kingdom in any, possible way…

This is just sad.

Well Planonian if you really feel this way ther is always Their Elizabeth’s site Telling Secrets! You may like it better there??? There is no obession with Their Elizabeth here at SF. It appears to me that it was the ther side that stepped into assumptions, and accusations about Greg while the rrest if us here were following the ACN, and other more important news of the religious world. We just find their continuium of trashng Greg & SF posters a bit inanely humorous!

Is there any depth of pathetic, juvenile and un-Christian nonsense to which the SF crowd won’t sink ?

They started it! 

Is there any depth of pathetic, juvenile and un-Christian nonsense to which the SF crowd won’t sink ?

Like what, for example?

They started it!

Cindy T.
Now that does sound juvenile! Something my 8 year old says on a regular basis about his 11 yr. old brother! And I’m thinking you were being facetious!

Apologies.  My inner child is now in “time out.”

Planonian,
At the risk that this will degenerate further, I believe you have gotten an answer: NO.  But then, having read Scott Peck’s People of the Lie or the work of Phil Zimbardo, you should know that ALL good people have the ability to become cruel and vicious.  Cindy may be correct in stating “they started”.  We didn’t stop it.  In fact we kept it goin.  And I’m sure we will get a plethora of responses justifying or making the behavior exceptional.

RE: “Is there any depth of pathetic, juvenile and un-Christian nonsense to which the SF crowd won’t sink ?”

Planonian.  Setting aside the fact that you clearly define the words “pathetic,” “juvenile,” and “un-Christian” very differently from most of us, and thus none of your words manage to rise to the level of insult, why are you opposed to commenters enjoying themselves and being happy?

Does it really just gall you so much that reasserting Anglicans are having a good time?

Pretty much every Friday now, there are off-topic threads where people go and have fun.  So why are you making pious cluck-clucking sounds today?

I’m genuinely curious.

why are you opposed to commenters enjoying themselves and being happy?

Perhaps Planonian recalls that about a month ago y’all spent the better part of 2 weeks trying to destroy Reverend Kaeton’s reputation and career.  You launched a concerted effort to damage her in the eyes of her bishop and standing committee, publishing their names and contact numbers and urging your followers to complain about her, spreading slander, gossip, and unfounded rumors on your website. 

Or maybe Planonian remembers about a week ago when you dredged up a 10-year old sermon she delivered to an Integrity group and ragged on her for days over that. 

Or Planonian may consider it cruel to, on top of the above, ridicule Reverend Kaeton, a grandmother, for her physical appearance. 

There’s something ugly and sadistic about the things you do to other people. 

Maybe you should try having a good time NOT at someone else’s expense, if you think you can. Who knows—it might be good for your souls.

Essef,
Let us not forget the planned desctruction of the Kennedy’s by EK’s threats of invasion of their home with professionals, CPS authorities and the likes! It’s really easy to point a finger when you forget from whom and where the struggle began.

Perhaps Planonian recalls that about a month ago y’all spent the better part of 2 weeks trying to destroy Reverend Kaeton’s reputation and career.  You launched a concerted effort to damage her in the eyes of her bishop and standing committee, publishing their names and contact numbers and urging your followers to complain about her, spreading slander, gossip, and unfounded rumors on your website. 

essef: Are you deaf, dumb and blind or are you just stupid? The fact of the matter was that Lizzie posted vile, slanderous, and unprovoked comments about Matt Kennedy’s wife on her site. She has yet to sincerely apologize and did her best to hide what she said. Whatever she got from StandFirmers, she richly deserved. So I’ll tell you the same I would Lizzie if I thought she was listening: If you (and Lizzie) can’t take the heat, then stay the hell out of the kitchen. You disgust me.

the snarkster

One day closer,
No let’s NOT forget: an eye for an eye…  Have I got it right?  I really don’t care about the standard which revisionists set for themselves.  However, I really have concerns when we start using it as a measure for ourselves.  Somehow, I thought our yardstick was a bit different.  Was I wrong?

Hey Planonion, essef, and richardc,

Where was your indignation - nay, your outrage - when Elizabeth Kaeton was writing her minivan murder fantasy? Where was it when she threatened the Kennedys with “monitoring” them and perhaps reporting them to child protective services? Where was it when Lisa Fox wrote this? Or this?

You three amaze me, you really do.

richardc,
No you are not wrong about our “yardstick”....However I do believe in defending oneself and in defending one’s family and we here at SF are a family of sorts! Its not a tit-for-tat but I don’t think it wise to stand there and take shots constantly either!

Well, at least we are not talking about Radner’s resignation.

<blockquoe>Well, at least we are not talking about Radner’s resignation</blockquote>
Timothy,
That’s on another thread!

One day closer,
I’m sorry if I missed the shot today or failed to see how any of this friday afternoon “good time” as Sarah refers to it would qualify as “defending one’s family”.  It may be fun indeed.  At someone’s expense.  I remember how good it felt to humiliate someone who had hurt me in my younger days.  It certainly wasn’t the way of the Cross.

BTW,
Isn’t it wonderful that everyone from all walks of life and faiths can come to SF and post freely without having to have their comments approved of first! Unlike all these other sites that, like Scriptures, pick and choose what they want to have read and posted on their sites. Which is one reason why I think Greg is probably a good target for ridicule and arrow throwing. He, thank the Good Lord, is much more tolerant than they!

Thank you Greg!

essef,

Nope, essef . . . we spent an excellent time noting and further publicizing EK’s appalling and public attacks on Matt Kennedy, as well as working hard to make certain that her bishop and Standing Committee knew of her despicable words.  Glad that we did that—and should that ever happen again, we will do so again. 

And if Planonian remembers the sermon, then hopefully he’ll remember the other Kaeton stories recounted on this blog over the years . . . because you missed several.  ; > )

As well as, of course, the many other ridiculous acts and words of various other scads of progressive Episcopalians, which are now, thanks to various blogs, well-publicized and brought into the light for all Episcopalians who have access to the Internet to see.

I can well understand that you would not wish for average Episcopalians on the Internet to know about those things—so I certainly understand your ire.  ; > )

RE: “Or Planonian may consider it cruel to, on top of the above, ridicule Reverend Kaeton, a grandmother, for her physical appearance.”

I did not notice any ugly remarks about people’s appearances.  I did note a lot of making sport about the rather silly remarks of Lisa Fox regarding Greg—and the sport was excellent.  It’s always good to use humor to point out the bizarre nature of the words of others.  And it was humorous for us . . . though not, of course, for progressive Episcopalians. 

But hey!  You guys can have fun about the things that we say . . . and you often do.  Doesn’t trouble me in the least.

RE: “Who knows—it might be good for your souls.”

I have as much interest in your opinions about souls, or indeed any other spiritual matters, essef, as I do about your humorous take on our comments on your blogs. 

Indifference would be an understatement.

richardc,
I am not having fun here! This is not a laughable situation to me. I see it as more of the same attacking from the revisionist side at us conservatives when they post riduclous statements like they have here. To say that Greg is gay or has an infatuation with EK is jsut plain stupid!

I acn’t and won’t speak for Sarah, but I find nothing humorous in the others sides assumptions and accusations! And they deserve to be addressed for what they are…......inane, embecilic, etc….

17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d]says the Lord. 20On the contrary:
  “If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
    if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
  In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”[e] 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Romans 12

Is there any depth of pathetic, juvenile and un-Christian nonsense to which the SF crowd won’t sink ? Esp. when it comes to your obsession with the Rev. Kaeton ?

Plankton - I mean Planonion: 
No, I told you it’s my LIFE to obsess about MY Elizabeth… her hot pink site… her sermons… her salsa… her hobbies (pretend I know one)...

I TOLD you we all had to sign in lemon juice, no less a written pledge to wallpaper every inch of our homes to even write on StandFirm…

the reason we didn’t give you one is because then you would KNOW about the secret plot… darn... just spilt it…

Timothy:

I agree - teasing Greg beats Radner any day of the week.  I am tired of his resigning etc. etc. The ACN conference was too cool to let his whining ruin it.

Greg,

Your wife is very pretty;  almost as pretty as Mrs. Moot.

Er .. What was the question?

(hehehe)

essef, Kaeton probably finds your condescending assumption that she needs you to come to her defense more offensive than Greg’s post, especially since she probably just regards it as harmless banter in the first place. I mean she plays pretty rough, so it would be hypocritical of her to take offense.
You’re probably misjudging the nature of this exchange, and
should probably stop sticking your nose into what you don’t
understand.
Admit it, you just like that Pharisaical self-righteous rush, don’t you (regardless of whether rebuke applies or not)? You really ought to find another way to get your kicks. Who knows—it might be good for your soul.

So, Greg, what IS your wife smiling about?  Her smile says “mystery”, “joy” and “happiness”.  Was she smiling at you - did you take the picture?  She looks like a person who knows how to have fun and enjoy life to the fullest. 

Thanks for sharing something (someone) special with us.

Greg,you done good in your choosing,enjoy and delight in the wife of your young years,she’s lovely.
Blessings to you and your’s

I would like to return to the accusation that commenters have made fun of personal appearance.

I am fine with being accused of having fun with the utterances of revisionists—that’s not a negative.

But where was there mockery of people’s appearance.  I did not think that Greg’s pointing out that somebody has [somewhat crudely and childishly] accused him of having a thing for a woman and his putting up pics of the two women and claiming his choice . . . is “making fun of someone’s appearance”.

Is that it?  I mean . . . if I were married to an incredible man, and somebody accused me of having some sort of thing for another man, I’d be happy to put up a picture of the two, especially of mine, hopefully rippling some muscles and engaged in some sort of sporting activity and looking all rugged, and so forth.

I say that without any knowledge of either [fictional] male’s appearance [except for the rugged appearance, which I must marry if I intend to be outdoors non-stop upon marriage.]

Or is it in commenters’ comments???

I am sincerely interested and I do not think that we should make fun of people’s appearance.  [Pointing out the humor of really bad ideas is another matter.]

For me two things stand out in this discussion:

(1) the threats from EK on Matt Kennedy’s family and now on Greg’s integrity both demonstrate exactly what is meant by “Inclusion” and “Love” in TEC

(2) the ability of these people to correctly analyze and interpret reality is seriously in question.

Greg—I think you should be more careful about putting links to some of these reappraiser sites. They are not used to the level of traffic that you get. 

The Telling Beads sitemeter shows an average of 10 visitors per day; and My Manner of Life shows an average of 63 per day. Even their “big"sites (An inch at a time with 472 and Telling Secrets with 305) are so small that the wave of viewers from here must risk destabilizing their web servers.

We need to remember that these blogs are an incredibly small minority taste (which is of course also a reflection of incredibly small level of support for their prophetic theology).

The notion of Greg obsessing about Kaeton seemed preposterous even before I saw Mrs. Griffith’s photo. Though I haven’t met Greg, everything I’ve seen by or about him suggests he is a secure, confident, good-natured guy who doesn’t take disagreement personally—-almost the polar opposite how Kaeton’s claque seems to view him.

Sarah Hey :

Sarah, Sarah, Sarah, Sarah!!!!  How could you forget so soon the Reappraiser mantra?  “If it’s not there, just make it up!” - this jaunty phrase works for Bible Reading, Doctrine, and Arguments - it takes no prior planning and has the advantage of constantly changing so you never quite have to defend it!  How you could have forgotten this nifty little tool amazes me… however, I know you will recover soon.

Re: Wrong Doing

I will openly admit that I DID make fun of Ms. Keaton’s hot pink website.  Of this offense against humanity I do acknowledge full responsibility and awareness of wrong-doing.  However, in my defense I would assert that hot pink is a rather garish color and should (a most) be used in minute quantities in order to be tasteful.  Had I never been trained in the use of color and Art, I would not be so susceptible for for such a crime… and hence, my education has been my undoing.

I AM SO ASHAMED (but am not hot pink, I would submit, just more of a tinge of light blush).

“If it’s not there, just make it up!” - this jaunty phrase works for Bible Reading, Doctrine, and Arguments - it takes no prior planning and has the advantage of constantly changing so you never quite have to defend it!  How you could have forgotten this nifty little tool amazes me…

Exegesis by free-association.
Hopefully this site will be able to instill a proper ‘pomophobia’ into reappraising readers.

Saint Gregory, who cares what anybody says?  As an international expert in such things, I can say with authority that with only the picture as evidence I can say “Boy howdy, SHE’S HOT!!”  This reminds me of the Bob Hope story when NOW was protesting the Miss America contest he said that they were just jealous because they had a beauty contest and nobody won!  Next thing the humorless establishment liberals will be saying is that you are just a lesbian traped in a man’s body.  Thanks be to God for honoring us with not only godley women but beautiful ones as well.  Keep on rocking.

BillyD,
Blessings for the posting of the Word.

This is Truly . . . the best they can do, Greg!  I mean . . . that’s all they got?

To which Greg replied:

No… I think somewhere they called me a big stupid booty-head.

Greg, how could you forget Jake’s gracious epithet, “asshat”? BTW, where can you buy those? I’m still looking to buy one. I hear they’re all the rage this upcoming fashion season.

I just have one question…...
Why is it not one of you individuals (BillyD, richardc, Planonian, essef, et al) are not over on Telling Secrets, or Jake’s Place, or any of those other sites letting them have it in regards to their unChristianly comments or behavior? I don’t see anyone of you over on those sites bringing to their attention their vile spewing but seem to come over here to SF and shake a finger at those of us who are bringing to light the wrongs that are being spewed from the other side against us! Sarah has given you all a very good break down of the ugliness that has been shot this way, yet were any of you over at Telling Secrets letting EK know how unChrsitianly her words and actions were or My Manner of Life letting that person know just how unChristianly their story was? No, but you are over here letting us reasserters know how much you feel we are being unChristianly.
Very interesting! Very interesting indeed!

Essef, Planonian and Richard C.  Before you fart check to make sure there is a dog to kick.

Essef:

Well, actually, I fully intended to do what I could to call into question Kaeton’s career as a cleric and character assassin of unparalleled vitriol. Her calculated assault on Matt+ and his family was a stark, cold, foul act. I sent out over 20 registered letters to the Bishop, standing committee and others of authority in that diocese with the goal to stimulate an investigation into her stated, published words. I received one reply, a reasoned and courteous letter from the Bishop assuring me that the matter would be looked into whenever Kaeton returned from abroad.  I intend to continue my efforts to get some accountability from the Diocese for the acts of this woman. It is not too much to ask, given the torrent of abuse visited upon the faithfull by Kaeton over the years.

One does wonder if Planonion, essef, and richardc have been equally as diligent in going over to these other blogs to hold them accountable as they’re trying SF. If so, I appalled them and maybe we should give an ear for they may be sent by God, who is no respecter of persons ...

[Checking], [Checking] [checking]

Nope, none of their names on “telling-beads,” “my-manner-of-life” or “telling-secrets” ... oh, naughty, naughty. You should know better than that, to hold one party and not the other accountable is unjust. If we want to be taken seriously about your effort to bring a higher level of behavior, I urge you to gain some credibility and march right on over to those blogs and tell them the same thing about making fun of Greg ... that is if you are truly serious about what you write and not using it as a ruse for ulterior motives, that would not be polite.

teddy mak,
I too got the same letter you did from the good bishop just before leaving for Houston and I took it with me and prayed, read it again, and prayed some more that the Lord would lead this bishop to do the right a just thing. I like you am still waiting and continue to pray.

BillyD,

I commend you for reading and applying Scripture.  Romans makes for excellent reading - you should continue reading it.  And if you feel really adventurous, I suggest the way most people read books.

Y’ know - Start with chapter 1, and read it through. 

Seriously! 

Start with chapter 1.

Have fun! 

Anger and indignation are very powerful emotions.  When people are hurt as Matt and his wife have been, it is easy to give way to other emotions and behaviors such as vengence and retribution.  The more horrific we perceive the injustice, the more justified we feel we are in avenging the wrong.  We yield to the temptation to steal God’s right to vengence and retribution.  We coach our stealing God’s right to avenge us by finding all sorts of justifications. 

Matt and his wife are very worthy of our prayers and support.  Those who have been wounded in very deep places of their lives can perhaps grasp some of the pain, fear and anger which they must have experienced as a result of Keaton’s comments.  Words are indeed very powerful weapons.  They leave wounds that scar that can last decades if they are not healed by our Great Healer.

We who share in the sufferings of Christ, have nailed our old vengeful ways to the cross.  We have chosen to lay down the weapons and allow God to heal, vindicate and restore us. 

Hosea, perhaps it might be a good thing to go over to the other blogs and try to prod their consciences.  Several have suggested that those of us who advocate the high road should meter out the same call to right actions on the perpetrators of the attack and allow the reassertors their day of venting, mocking and retribution.  I choose not to because I don’t believe I’m called to to so.  I share very little with them except perhaps their zealousness for social justice.  I believe many of them have hardened their hearts to the Word of God and to the convicting of the Holy Spirit.  I believe most of us are zealous about the Word of God although I am often disheartened, believing we quench the Spirit by not heeding its convicting us regarding right and wrong.

Its difficult to sound the alarm regarding the high road, right and wrong, or yielding to God what is rightfully only His (vengence).  I’m sure many share Paula’s views and attitude.  And yet, I live under the same conviction day in/day out.  I speak from years of having lived with anger, hatred and the desire for vengence.  They transform one into an ugly person.  I am now gradually and hopefully (throughout the rest of my life) into the image of Christ.  That is the call I give to us when I prod us to leave old vengeful, ways aside and take up the way of the Cross.  I wonder if such an approach might not have heaped coals upon the Rev. Keaton.  Instead, I fear we’ve behaved no different while asserting we are the bearers of the standard of truth.  Our claims to a historic faith is meaningless if we do not live that faith every day for others to see.

Now richardc, take that same wonderful and very accurate, in regards to hurtful words that leave lasting wounds, using words as a weapon, etc… and post it over at Telling Secrets! I am not suggesting that you prod EK & her posters consceience, that’s God arena! But, you could post the same thoughtfully written words over there that you did here to plant the seed for God’s use in conviction. After all, don’t they need to hear the same thing? Why do you feel that only SF posters need to have your “Higher Gorund” sermon only? Even though I am quite sure your post would not get posted over at Telling Secrets (which BTW is a terrible name for a blog site, but says much about the owner), since she pre-reads and decides what is worthy in her view to be posted. But at least she would have to read it andthen god would be able to take your seed planting and work His miracle. IMHO, I truly believe that EK needs to hear your “Higher Ground” sermon and all these others posts that seem to condemn us posters here at SF. Then maybe we all wouldn’t need to feel the necessity to come to a brother & sister’s defense and aid against such evil attacks & threats and we could be doing some other worthy ministries for the expansion of God Kingdom.

Isaiah 1:17
      learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow’s cause.

Proverbs 31:9
  Open your mouth, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy.

I too know my scriptures and I believe that God expects us to do just as you have stated above but I also believe that He expects us to take action against evil attacks and deeds:

John 3:19-21
  And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil. [20] For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. [21] But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been carried out in God.”

andthen god Oops! My bad typing! Should read and then God…

Sarah Dylan is a blessing!  What an awesome witness. Would to God that both sides in this whole dispute would take her sharing, and the word of God seriously about “repaying evil for evil.”

One day closer,
Yes indeed you can take the road you suggest.  Clearly many have chosen that road.  Is it the high road?  You certainly have provided enough justification for taking the road you advocate. But again, is it the high road? 

Your point about metering out to Keaton and her crew the same “sermon” posted here is the argument raised by one sibling against another to a parent - “well he started! why don’t you punish him as well?”  Are we still at this child’s stage of our walk?  I thought we purported to be different.  How so?  You will not be satisfied until we have punished Keaton and her crew and extracted a sincere apology and restitution from them.  You seek revenge.  You seek retribution.  I desire those too for Matt and his wife’s sake.  For the sake of justice.  BUT they are not mine to meter out.  That my friend, regardless of any means you seek to justify it, support it, or paint it, belongs to God alone.

No richardc,
This is not a childs stage in our walk! You are missing my point. Maybe you are missing it intentionally. You seem to want to point out to the conservative side here at SF only our shortcomings and let the evil on the revisionist side ride! I think you should go and read Titus & I Timothy in regards to rebuking and whom should be rebuked! I seriously question your motive for only wanting to rebuke SF posters and preach a “Higher Ground” sermon as if we shoud just take the hits from the left side as if we deserve it, yet ignoring the and accepting the vile that comes from the left!

1 Tim. 5:20
  As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.

<blockquote>1 John 4:1
  Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.</blokquote>
So, richardc….I have asked why you do not post the same sermon over at these other sites and you only come back with nothing except accusing us (me) of being a child! Avoiding the question with answers that continue to demean me and others here at SF. Gee! How are you any different then than the rest of us?

BTW! What is the difference of us asking for some discipline of those who attack unChristianly our brothers and sisters then our asking the ABofC to discipline TEC in her disobedience of not only scripture, but to all the canons she has disregarded, ignored and blatantly broken? How is one any different than the other?

I’m no different than any of us here.  I am calling us, not them, to walk the talk regarding the standard we raise.  Not the standard they raise.  Not the standard they ought to raise.  Rather, the standard that we raise. 

I have answered your question regarding why I do not post to their sites.  That action is a behavior of retribution.  Somehow, you see my postings as a chiding which prompts you question why I don’t chide the revisionists as well.  Forget about what is going on with them and concentrate on the validity of the calling to reflect on our behavior.  We are accountable to God for how we address this matter.  I have no interest or desire or calling to challenge them on this issue.  If you feel compelled to do so, bless you.  Only do it without malice and without seeking retribution. 

You paint this matter as one of my somehow wanting to chide reasserters and not fairly “chiding” the revisionists.  You are partially correct.  I have no interest in chiding revisionists.  However, my motives are not ladened with the dubious character with which you would impugn them.  I am suggesting to you that when you assert that your position is loftier, more faithful and more righteous than your opponents (as we orthodox view our stance relative to revisionists) we take up the burden of having to live out that position because our opponents will judge us more harshly as will God.  I am suggesting to you that while we merit the right to be angry and indignant and have every right to call revisionists on their shortcomings, we have chosen to give up that right because vengence does not belong to us.  You are seeking scriptural loopholes to claim a right you don’t have.  Moreover, you are asserting a right which you set at the foot of the Cross when you chose to follow Christ.  Can we stop focusing on what we ought to do to them and begin to ask, how ought we to behave towards them given the example of the Cross?

I am not alleging any superior position on this call.  If you knew me, you would know me to be far from it.  And yet, every day we are called to take up our cross and follow Christ.  This is a harsh and sobering point upon which I call us to reflect.  It is a daily dying to our nature and become the measure of the man/woman to which God is calling each and everyone of us.

Blessings to you my brother

We are accountable to God…

So are they!

I am not looking for vengence I am calling a spade a spade. I and many here do not go out intentionaly and write vicious things about the left side. We respond to their vicious attacks! Greg, Matt+, Sarah, Jackie, and many posters here on SF bring things that are of evil and darkness into light so that we all can understand and know where our enemy waits & lies. No one here is seeking vengence. No one here is saying “off with their heads” or “sue them” or “defrock EK!” No! Everyone here wanted and did not get a sincere, remorseful apology from EK so we decided the next step was to enlighten her bishop and standng committee so that no one else could be harmed by such cruelity. We sought and still seek to have discipline by those in authority over her, as it is their responsibility to investigate and carry out said discipline by the positions they hold to do so. As far as this ridiculous verbiage regarding Greg from the owner of My Manner of Life, its just a continuium of the same vileness that never seems to end from the left. It is my strong belief that it is from the dark side driven by the evil one to derail and side track us from our mission if only for a brief time and in the end ultimately destroy he faith once delivered. To ignore and and leave it unenlightened and undeflected would be to our own detriment. But under no circumstances have I heard any one act out or require a vengence on the lefties that they have infused on us!

richardc: You’ve said yourself that when it comes to those at Jake’s place and other such sites is “I share very little with them except perhaps their zealousness for social justice.”  Yet in the case of EK’s attack on the Kennedys, you decry those here who seek to right a wrong.  Who else gets your good advice?  Gays?  Native Americans?  Blacks?  Women?  When you talk to people at Jake’s, do you tell them to sit down and passively wait for God to take care of their problems? 

I won’t EVER forget how Kaeton threatened a family that got in her way.  I want her exposed and punished because I want justice and I haven’t gotten it yet.  The bishop said he’d look into it, and he’s done NOTHING.  She’s gotten away with it, that’s what I see in this whole disgusting business.  There’s no justice, and you know what they say, “No justice, no peace.”  I’m not going to listen to the cant of people who seem to think that injuring another person is just God’s way of teaching other people to be holy.  I don’t know who appointed Elizabeth Kaeton, or you for that matter, as God’s little helper, to set up experiments in suffering for other people and then hand out grades in how well or badly we’ve met the challenge.

RichardC,

I’ve been following the Kennedy/Kaeton thing enough to believe that the Kennedy’s have forgiven and desire to “move on.”  It seems to me that at this point, anything beyond forgiveness is a luxury they can’t afford. 

Greg’s post doesn’t seem at all vengeful to me.  Not for Kennedy’s, and not for himself. 

He posted a picture of Kaeton, next to a picture of his wife.  And the question he posed to us in effect was, “Is it really reasonable that I’d be head-over-heels in love with Kaeton, rather than to my own wife?”

Keaton’s not an ugly woman.  I’d even say that her physical appearance, has its merits.  But she isn’t better looking than Greg’s wife;  not by a longshot. 

So I guess I’m confused by what you consider to be vengaence.  Obviously, you cannot find Kaeton to be physically repulsive, so that option is out.  Is it that you consider the comparison between Kaeton and Greg’s wife to be vengeful?  Or rather, do you consider it vengeful because it exposes the stupidity of Kaeton’s fan-club? 

Please clarify.  Thank you.

When someone answer a vile lie or rumor with the truth it is not playing tit for tat.  It is an exercise in justice.  The truth can never be evil.  It can expose evil and it can show us our sinfullness.  But the truth is not to blame for these things.  Should this justice be tempered by mercy.  Of course it should.  That is why as Christians we are quick to condemn the act while praying for the sinner.

  There is an old saying ” Tell the truth and shame the devil”. 
  Those who get in an uproar over truth should keep in mind where all lies originate.  Those who tell the truth without regard to the dignity of the persons involved should remember the love of Christ for the lost sheep.  And the guilt of our own sins.

RichardC: I have heard no one here clamoring for vengeance. The original thread concerning EK’s vile and slanderous comments was over 300 posts long before Greg cut it off. As I said on that thread, it would have been about 200 posts shorter if Liz had just openly, unambiguously, and sincerely apologised. She didn’t then and, to my knowledge, never has. It is not “vengeance” to ask that the persons who hold authority over Liz hold her accountable for her actions. The fact that they haven’t, at least to my knowledge, is a telling indicator of just what a theological cesspool the Diocese of New Jersey has become.

Even Bruce Garner, posting over on Sarah’s most excellent new article, has leapt to EK’s defense. That is most disappointing. Though I disagree vehemently with almost every word that comes out of Bruce’s mouth, I had always assumed that he had the minimum intelligence to see that Kaeton’s unprovoked attack on Anne Kennedy was flat out wrong and was the precipitating cause of all of our outrage. Apparently, I was wrong. It seems that being a revisionist lesbian feminista priest gives you the right to say anything at all about anybody without fear of retribution, a very sad state of affairs indeed.

the snarkster

Clearly we speak of different roads to travel.  I’ve spent a year here making appeals towards taking the higher road.  I’m not quite sure I have much in common with many here as has been occasionally and pejoratively noted. 

I really don’t see any point in further belaboring an earnest appeal which is not welcomed but rather is repudiated.  Perhaps someone else who has greater credibility or appeal might be more successful in persuading many here.  Clearly, I have not. 

You win.  May God have mercy on us all over the coming months as this war further ravages the orthodox community.  I believe that time is truly upon us where each one must work out his salvation with fear and trembling.  I will refrain from any further posting to this site.

May God work in you to will and do his good pleasure.

RichardC, I’d urge extreme caution when talking about motives, for we only know our own hearts and that only sort of well.

This article is not directly connected but related to the Kennedy article.

This one is better connect to publishing an older Dr. Noll article that references a EK sermon of that time so Greg publish that. EK is upset that her words of ten years ago are publish (I skimmed her resoning but it did make sense to me). So of her friend publish a slanderous post that Greg is secretly in love with a older, divorces, lesbian woman whose daughter is probably closer in age to him than she, here tying back to the Anne Kennedy threat (EK’s friends).

Instead of being upset, Greg merely does a ‘yeah, right, as if I’m secretly have a crush on a older, divorced, lesbian, who spouts poor theology and has a daughter who is at least late twenties having her PhD—oh, please get real would you please look at my beautiful and youthful wife.’

Granted there are probably a million of other reasons the notion of Greg being unfaithful with Mrs. Greg for EK is outlandish, which Dylan did ask Greg to share insight, but being a phone says 1000 words merely gave 2176 word essay on why he thought this was outlandish.

Now if you’d like to chide Greg how it not nice how parts of his essay could temp other men and better mill stones or something, I might think you have a very valid point. I actually think this was an appropriate reply, ridicule of the ridicules, not by attacking the author of “my-manner-of-life” but saying ‘Are you kinding, me unfaithful? You see who a return home to each evening.’

I think that’s a GREAT way to respond and urge a little lighting up for instead of insult for insult he gives a compliment to his lovely wife instead of entertaining the slanderous remark.

“So of her friend publish a slanderous post that Greg is secretly in love with a older, divorces, lesbian woman whose daughter is probably closer in age to him than she, here tying back to the Anne Kennedy threat (EK’s friends).:

I think this is basically a misreading of the post. It wasn’t meant to be taken as fact, but was rather a (lame and unChristian) attempt at humor.

I think this is basically a misreading of the post.

Well, I guess if you read everything as you want to see it than it could very well be a misreading. While I’m not an old timer on SF like some, I’ve been here long enough to know a little about Greg’s sense of humor (‘walk it off,’ ‘rub some dirt on it’) and this is how I’m reading his post.

Maybe you should ask him either directly instead of assuming his intentions, as for unChristian - how and why is laughing off a personal attack unChristian? Yes, it does tend to REALLY upset the one trying to provoke, but trust me, from experience in my profession, this is the best Christian responses (ignoring folks at my work will only encourage the negative behavior).

Hosea, you misunderstand me. I meant that the post accusing Greg of having a crush on EK was attempted humor.

Oh now I see!  Fox’s humor is -like - humor and anything written by Greg can only be malicious,  hateful, mean-spirited venom - even when posted in response to, what did you call it, yeah, humor.

I believe Greg’s official reply to that slanderous post (remember it would be against Scripture and wedding vows, he is a married man) is:

“Yeah, right! Would you look at who I come home to!”

Jackie, go back and read my post about the original post being “lame and unChristian.” If you think I’m defending it by calling it humor, you are mistaken.

Jackie,shades of a double standard,who’da thunk it?
As for the ‘joke’,could it be Fox outing Rev Ms. Kaeton as having a guilty pleasure for ‘shudder’ younger married ‘shiver’ MEN?....

BillyD: I didn’t see your name either over that those other blogs about their posts being “lame” or “unChristian,” you would not be holding too different standards would you? That is not just! I’d encourage you to march right on over and begin posting how this is “unChristian” on those blogs if you really want to be taken seriously as a prophetic voice!

Clearly we speak of different roads to travel.  I’ve spent a year here making appeals towards taking the higher road.  I’m not quite sure I have much in common with many here as has been occasionally and pejoratively noted. 

Rich,

You speak as if forgiveness and reconciliation are one in the same. 
You speak as if nice people are always kind. 
You speak as if thick-skinned people are always unkind. 
You speak as if evil should always be met with a willing, passive victim. 

But friend, these things aren’t true (at least not, all the time).  They are naive assumptions.  I can’t say it any kinder than that.  I think we can both agree that you lack credibility.  I do not think however, that you are going to gain credibility elsewhere. 

I really think at some point, you are going to go through something similar to what some of our moderators have gone through;  In my experience, God often prosecutes us with our own points of pride. 

I recommend not coming down too hard on folks like Greg.  You’ll be doing yourself a favor. 

Godspeed.

Woo Hoo! A silly thread about “yeah right” is at 112 comments, Sarah’s deep thoughtful essay about the recent fractures is at 127 comments as of this writing.

We only have 15 more comments to catch up ... Come on, we can do this!

(Okay, that’s it for me. My pouch is really pestering me to walk her in this heat and it looks like she’ll not let up till I do, gotta go).

Hosea, I wasn’t aware that I was trying to be taken seriously as a prophetic voice. (And given our respective choice of monikers, I find the assertion kind of ironic.)

Amazing that posting a citation from Romans would have resulted in so much defensiveness? Suit yourself, Hosea et al: Try overcoming evil with evil, and curse - curse, and do not bless - those who curse you. Let me know how that works out for you.

Hosea6:6 :

I completely concur with your assessment.  You put into words what I was going to say, but I’ve been a little busy today.

The Sad Part

You know, the sad part of this to me is that this was MEANT to be a silly thread - so the posts began in that fashion.  However, some, and unfortunately more than I care to admit cannot comprehend being silly and a Christian.  I’ve met a few people like this personally and I just go away feeling rather sorry for them.  How sad never to ever dare to laugh at oneself and not take the words of others very seriously - how drab life must be.

If Greg had meant evil things about EK, then I would agree.  If we really DID obsess over her it would be rather pathetic.  Yet, Greg just laughed at the idea of his being in love with her.  Most of us only visited EK’s site when she was trying to tear Anne Kennedy apart and so have might of even been there (what?) three times… that is why I laughing about “OUR Elizabeth” - if it weren’t for her trashing Anne Kennedy I wouldn’t be able to even tell you who she was or have her garish Umbridge-esque website emblazoned upon my memory in its varying pink hues (she just needs a couple of kitten plates to finish it nicely). 

However, pout if you must - sigh over the depravity of humor and wring your hands in dismay that people have the ability to chuckle over harmless meaningless things.  If it makes you happy - enjoy!

How weird - it was a joke - I don’t know anybody involved - it made me laugh. Of course, having read Greg’s various posts I belive the photo of his ‘wife’ must be entirely fictious and he’s really married to someone who looks rather like Mrs. Doubtfire.

Keep up the good work!

Try overcoming evil with evil, and curse - curse, and do not bless - those who curse you.

[Thud! Climb up off the floor]

Wow, thanks for saying what was done was evil. I never thought you’d say that. My estimation of you has risen considerably.

Now, being a Christian who works 15+ years in nearly all male and “lower brow” environment of construction, I get teased a lot with all sorts of stuff like this. I’ve done many trial and error methods of handling the situation, some more effective than others.

Greg’s laughing it off and complementing his wife is actually is returning a blessing for a curse. One accused (even in a joke [as most of my harassment is the guys sport]) him of being obsessed by woman other than his wife, so he retorts in fashion of ‘are you kidding’ and boasting to all the world of the gift God’s given him.

You are mistaken in your reading of Scripture, because there is another ‘victim’ of the joke and Greg fulfill his God given role in defending her. Not is attacking or cursing EK, but lifting Mrs. Greg on a pedestal. What you have accused of being unChristian is actually very godly if you consider the whole context and full implication of the evils spoken.

Good show Greg! This is third time I’ve seen you step in for woman under attack from that group. This time it for one your actually convented to protect, doing so in a way that affirms her. Great job!

“Wow, thanks for saying what was done was evil. I never thought you’d say that. My estimation of you has risen considerably.”

You’re welcome, but a little late. If you had read my very first post on this thread, you would see that I quoted the original.

A lot of the times I think that people on both “sides” of the Present Crisis don’t actually read or hear what people they disagree with are actually saying, but instead project what they assume someone on the other side would say. That probably saves time, but makes for bad communication.

Wow. I go away for what - a little over 48 hours? - and this thread is at 118 comments.

Time to shut this one down, folks. For the record:

Hosea gets it. This was my way of saying “Are you kidding? Look who I come home to every day!” My wife is a beautiful woman, and yes, that’s really her. Sarah has met her; Jill Woodliff and Marty the Baptist know her, as do several other regular readers.

And, yes, she is a saint for marrying me in the first place, and even more for staying married to me (this will come as a shock I’m sure, but sometimes I can be a tad difficult to be around).

I did get to wondering, though… if I really were a closeted homosexual, why would Lisa Fox figure I would be attracted to Elizabeth Kaeton? Wouldn’t I instead be attracted to a man?

Unless…