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The Fields of Battle, Leave Taking, & a Critique of Everybody [except the revisionists]

Friday, August 3, 2007 • 11:12 am

[Yes, this is a long article.]

All this time, we’ve been walking along a path, in conversation, as friends and allies.  We’ve tried to be clear—“I want to head over there eventually,” and “I don’t think I want to go there”—but at some point, we can move no longer together on the same path.  It will be time for individuals and groups to move toward their chosen destination—to take a branch toward the mountains in the East, or toward the forests of the West, or elsewhere entirely.  . . . With these hopes, as we watch varying allies tighten their sword belts, shoulder their packs, turn, and walk into the mists of the mountains, or the green mystery of the forests, during a very perilous time of spiritual and church conflict, we take leave with blessing and a hope that “in battle we may yet meet again, though all the hosts of Mordor should stand between.’


I have been reading the various communications from various conservatives—Ephraim Radner’s critique of the Network, Stephen Noll’s request for unity of action from the Network bishops, Matt Kennedy’s analysis of Canterbury, Dr. Radner’s resignation, and now the various comments from all conservatives on the blogs.

I see that we are all indulging in one of our favorite hobbies—debate and argument—and I now hasten to join the fray, while fully aware that there would be no real argument or debate if we did not all also acknowledge one another as people who believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.  I wouldn’t give this the time of day if I didn’t know that Ephraim Radner and Bob Duncan were my brothers in the gospel of Christ.

Two Essays, Two Analyses: Ephraim Radner’s Thoughts

I’ll begin with a few thoughts about two opposing works, Ephraim Radner’s “The Common Cause of a Common Light” and Stephen Noll’s “An Open Letter to Network Bishops and Common Cause Partners.

As I read Dr. Radner’s piece, I was struck by two things—how much I agreed with its basic “Communion Conservative” principles and how little I agreed with some of his articulated theses. 

It would probably be a good idea to again describe what Communion conservatives believe.  Some of you have indicated a dislike for labels—but consider these labels to be merely “shorthand” for different groups who express their differences primarily in terms of tactics and strategy.  Please know that I acknowledge that neither group is monolithic and that individuals reside more on a “pole” than at one point.  Since I myself am a Communion conservative, though towards the middle of the spectrum [see—I’ve always said I’m really a moderate!] I will speak in terms of what I believe.  Communion conservatives, in brief and in general [and certainly with some exceptions in detail], believe that after of course, the gospel, there needs to be a “center that holds” other than doctrine for Anglicanism to survive as a thriving, growing, orthodox, global non-congregational, bishop-led communion.  Without such a center, I do not believe that Anglicanism will thrive or grow in the US, where it is already so weakened.  In fact, the more one focuses on doctrine as a means of unity, the more one recognizes that doctrine is actually an instrument of division—and not necessarily in a “bad sense” but often in a clarifying sense.  Once someone says “I think that Christ died for everybody that is ever to live”, another person always says “I don’t” . . . and the division promptly begins.  Understand, I’m not opposed at all to a confessional document—I just don’t believe that a confessional document will hold us all together. Anglicanism was built around the hope of a “common worship,” prayer book liturgy, sacraments, bishops, the gospel, and much more—all of which is of course “doctrinal”.  But unlike, for instance, the Presbyterians or the Puritans, it attempted to leave “blurry around the edges” those aspects of Christianity it considered secondary or unsettled and it also did not embrace the “regulative” principle of Calvin, but instead the “regulative” principle of Luther and Hooker.  I do not think that it was an accident that the Presbyterians look to Calvin, and the Anglicans look to Cranmer.  Very simplistically, Calvin’s work was that of the “analyst” or the “divider” and Cranmer’s work was that of the “synthesizer” or the “melder”.

And of course . . . that history in itself has led to the weaknesses that are confronting us today, which are different from the weaknesses that have confronted and are confronting Reformed Calvinists or Separatist Congregationalists.  As a relative of mine has always stated “We are all doomed to live out our theology” and we are most certainly living out our theology in the Anglican Communion, majoring on our inherent weaknesses in this and the last century.

Communion conservatives, in short, believe that as long as is possible, we should not be separated from a historic see and heritage that have both admirably served as “instruments of unity” throughout our church history.  We uneasily suspect that it is intrinsically and pragmatically necessary to a thriving Anglicanism.  As long as is possible, we should seek reform and renewal and discipline through the Communion and not outside of it; only should the Communion itself fracture, will we move away from it.

I would also like to point out that Communion conservatives have not embraced wholeheartedly the emphasis on “Common Cause” found amongst the leadership of the Network.  I can’t speak for all Communion conservatives, but I have two basic principles that have guided me with regards to many choices over the years.

One—a positive principle—is that mergers or business partnerships or marriages or any other relationship-intensifier should take place ideally amongst healthy, functional, strong individuals.  I do not believe that to be the case with either the Episcopal Network nor the various Common Cause partners.  The business [and relational] principle is that people and organizations should “get their own houses in order” before attempting to “spread themselves around” and intensify relationships.  The orthodox within ECUSA are manifestly disordered, chaotic, confused, weak, muddled, and non-functional.  The Common Cause partners each have their own histories that are sorely troubled, disunified, and sick—at least two of the partners have most certainly “not thrived”.  And there are *theological* reasons for that “not thriving” that have yet to be worked through.

Secondly there is this “negative” principle.  Those who have drunk poison—and as Episcopalians, even we traditionalists have done so—should not then go unify with others who have drunk a different poison.  The two poisons do not “cancel one another out” but rather worsen both patients.  The end is worse than the beginning.

In short, the Common Cause effort does two things that I think are quite damaging.  The effort allows both parties a “distraction” from their own issues and shortcomings which have led to their “not-thriving” and allows them to focus on a happy and bright and shining future vision rather than the present concrete problems.  And the effort obscures the very real differences between the two sides of Common Cause, which differences will most certainly leap out and display themselves at the first real opportunity.

I have already been on the record before with these thoughts.  I believe that history will be very unkind to Common Cause, not because it was not a good idea, or thought, or vision . . . but because neither side had “done their own work” before attempting to reconcile their differences.  We do not even have a coherent identity as traditional Episcopalians, so how we are to “unify” an incoherent and fractured identity with another is beyond me.

None of these very morose thoughts about Common Cause represent, I must add, my feelings for any number of members of other Anglican churches.  I am thinking, for instance, of my friend in Greenwood, SC, building an alternate Anglican church that is not a part of Common Cause at all, and my ally in Louisville, KY, and that great bishop that I liked at the Mere Anglicanism conference in Charleston—and more.

Having spoken with any number of Communion conservatives about Common Cause, I believe that many if not most share these thoughts.  And because we seem to be a bit quieter and less vociferous and boisterous in our articulations, let me say with feeling that we believe that both 1) a non-Canterbury-centered attempt at Anglicanism in the US and 2) unification with Common Cause partners at this time is likely to be disastrous.

I think I can’t be clearer than the above thoughts, although many many reasserting Episcopalians will disagree with me.

Yet with all of the agreement that I share with fellow Communion conservatives, there were numerous areas of Dr. Radner’s essay that I heartily disgreed with.  I do not believe, as he said, that there has been undue “secrecy” in the communications from the Network about its intended goals and hopes.  I, as a lay peon, can read the Network press releases and speeches just like anyone else, and it was clearly stated on the record at every event that I attended that the orthodox within ECUSA need a new province.  These statements were reported constantly and then talked about, with varying opinions expressed about what kind of province, when, where, led by whom, and so on, and so on.  In my opinion, there has probably been too little secrecy, not too much, and for either progressive Episcopalians or Communion conservative Episcopalians to complain of secrecy in regards to the Network’s goals and hopes only implies that they didn’t bother to read the ACN website.

I also do not agree that there needed to be more “conversation” amongst Network bishops or Network and Windsor bishops, or Network and Windsor and conservative-but-neither-Network-nor-Windsor bishops.  The truth is that, as with the revisionist Episcopalians and the traditional Episcopalians, we all already know what the values and hopes and theologies of the varying groups are.  I know good and well which Network bishops are “Federal conservatives” and which are “Communion conservatives”.  I know which ones like Common Cause and which are uneasy.  I know which dioceses feel the more threatened by the Episcopal church and which are pinning their hopes on a Communion-centered outcome.  Ephraim Radner accuses some Network bishops of being “non-consultative” . . . but the truth is that they consulted, found out which ones disagreed with them, carefully considered their decisions . . . and decided to “move forward” and “move on”.

Moving on, after careful consideration of all views and strategies, is a function of integrity and coherent identity within the person or the organization.  The Federal conservatives are very clear about what their stated goals, priorities, and values are.  They have stated them over and over and over. And those goals and priorities and values are what they are heartily pursuing.  I see no fault in that clear and public pursuit.  And further consultation will not cause them to change their theology, or modify their goals and values.

Finally, Dr. Radner does not seem to acknowledge a crucial and publicly stated fact.  The Federal conservatives have given up on the Anglican Communion.  They do not believe in it anymore.  It has failed Anglicanism, in their opinion.

Understand that I have not come to that conclusion yet—but they have.  The instruments of communion have failed. 

So the constant cry from we Communion conservatives to wait on the Anglican Communion for discipline and action and a province of integrity and orthodoxy is moot.  It is “dull and void”.  It is “demised,” to quote Monty Python.

It’s a little as if there were two groups of farmers [no insult intended towards farmers—my grandfather was a farmer] who agreed that they would like to fly to the moon.  [And please note that for this example I have chosen two equally insulting metaphors, with perhaps the more insulting belonging to MY group—so no flames, please!]  One group says “If pigs could fly, and they did not depend on oxygen, they could fly us to the moon.”  The other group expresses doubt that pigs can fly, and runs tests on the pigs and discovers that indeed, they do need oxygen.  When finally the second group gives up on getting to the moon via pig, and sets off to build their own space station, even though they have no engineers or space scientists at all in their group, but they do have some nice cable and pvc pipe behind the barn, the first group wonders why they no longer wish to get to the moon.  But it is not the eventual destination that the second group has given up on—it is the mode of transport.

The second group does not believe that pigs can fly.  The first one hopes that pigs can fly.  Eventually, at some point, the two groups must part.  The first group will continue working on the pigs-flying model, and the second will work on building a space station, sans expertise.  But it does no good for the first group to call after the second group “come back—we must fly to the moon on these pigs” when the second group no longer believes that pigs are able or willing to fly.  Their hope in the pigs is lost.  Dull and void.  Demised.

Whenever I read the critiques of fellow-traditional Episcopalians by Communion conservatives, there is an “air of unreality” about the critique.  It is as if they have never heard the clear and frequent and public pronouncements by the Federal conservatives of their First Premises, their goals and hopes, their values, their theology or ecclesiology, their conclusions.  It makes me think that they have not listened to the Federal conservatives at all.

Two Essays, Two Analyses: Stephen Noll’s Thoughts

I turn now to Stephen Noll’s plea to the Network bishops.  And as I read it, I understood his desire for the Network bishops to act together—but was amazed at how little he seemed to understand the group to which he was speaking.  Understand—Stephen Noll is a smart enough man to know that several of the Network bishops are right there with him on his goals.  So it is to the remainder of the Network bishops—the “Communion conservatives”—that Dr. Noll knows that he is speaking and attempting to persuade.

And yet.  His words are manifestly unpersuasive, since they do not even bother to use the same language or value statements of the audience which he intends to persuade.  He answers question which nobody is asking.  He assumes values and future actions which are manifestly and publicly stated elsewhere to be unlikely and improbable given their theology and ecclesiology.  He then proclaims to the Communion conservatives that they should do precisely that which they have stated they do not wish to do.

First, I don’t know of one Communion conservative who believes that ECUSA is reformable.  Not one.  I’m sure that they are out there, but they are a rare, or endangerred species.  Communion conservatives that I know believe ECUSA to be imminently irreformable [save, again, for a direct action from God akin to His pouring out fire from heaven onto the soaked altars of Baal].  So Dr. Noll announces as his first premise—and the premise from which all other suggested actions of his supposedly spring—that ECUSA is irreformable.

And yet, for Communion conservatives, the admission that ECUSA is irreformable does not cause any of the other actions to flow forth like waters from a spring.  Dr. Noll then states that, because ECUSA is irreformable, traditional Episcopalians should leave the Anglican Communion.  Of course, his language says “leave ECUSA now”—but in the absence of a Communion-approved province, that is precisely what he is saying—“leave the Anglican Communion now”.  And yet . . . the Communion conservatives have clearly, and repeatedly, and publicly stated that their values and goals are for Communion-discipline, a Communion-solution, Communion-integrity, Communion-identity.  It is stunning to me that Dr. Noll would announce a truism—“ECUSA is irreformable”—and then state that because of that, Communion conservatives should leave the Anglican Communion.

Along the way, Dr. Noll invokes fellowship with the Common Cause partners—which begs the question of whether Communion conservatives have pursued or sought that fellowship at all, in light of their higher priority, which is that of the Communion and in light of their concerns about Common Cause—and invokes the orthodox Global South primates, when all of us already know that some of the orthodox Global South primates do not desire at all for us to leave the Anglican Communion, yet still hope for discipline within the Communion itself.  And some of us suspect that NONE of the Global South Primates have any intentions of announcing their departure from the Anglican Communion as some of them seem to be asking of traditional Episcopalians.  The unevenness of their intentions for us and their intentions for themselves is striking.

In short, Dr. Noll says to the Communion conservatives “seek unity—forfeit your own theology, ecclesiology, values, and goals—and accede to the theology, ecclesiology, values, and goals of us Federal conservatives.”  It is a truly breathtaking letter, and one that I suspect had no persuasive power at all for Communion conservative bishops.  One cannot help but ask why we then could not say back to the Federal conservatives “seek unity—forfeit your own theology, ecclesiology, values, and goals, and accede to the theology, ecclesiology, values, and goals of us Communion conservatives.”

I think, underlying much of this essay is a final and very fatal assumption which many Communion conservatives have tried to clearly challenge.  You see, it’s not a choice for Communion conservatives between “staying in the Anglican Communion forever, or moving to an alternate conservative Anglican province which the Federal conservatives have set up.”  If that were it, there might be some cause for irritation on the part of the Federal conservatives.  I hear some commenters, for instance, talking about how they [the Federal conservatives] are doing the “heavy lifting” . . . but that rather begs the question of for what goal the heavy lifting is being done!  The ACI might well, if they were so inclined, hurl a “heavy lifting” accusation at the Federal conservatives and wonder aloud when they are going to “get on with helping the instruments of unity discipline and re-establish order”—and that is an unjust accusation, since as stated above, the Federal conservatives do not have the Communion as their highest priority, nor do they have any trust remaining for the Communion.  But when Federal conservatives announce that Communion conservatives should “do some heavy lifting” in regards to building a “new province” the effect is just the same.  Communion conservatives do not wish for a new, non-Communion province.  So why they should be doing “heavy lifting” in producing such a province is a source of bemusement and wonder.

The underlying and faulty assumption by Federal conservatives is that, should the Communion shatter, the Communion conservatives will all come trailing along, as Johnny-Come-Lately’s, to enter the new Anglican province that Federal conservatives have boldly and wisely set up. 

This is very mistaken.  When I speak with Communion conservatives about their plans, should the Communion fracture [as indeed appears likely] they do not speak about “sitting in the ruins of the Communion” which is the common caricature of them.  They speak of surrendering the idea of Anglicanism within the US, and moving on to a functional church of another type altogether.  Some mention Rome, some Geneva, some Augsburg.  Few of them mention CANA.

Thus . . . it is no use to bellow across cyberspace to a Communion conservative “better now, than later, weakling-timid-cowards.”  Because for many of us . . . it will be never.

To argue as Dr. Noll has done merely demonstrates something that I have suspected and now, judging by the comments after Dr. Radner’s resignation, believe.

Whenever I read the critiques of fellow-traditional Episcopalians by Federal conservatives, there is an “air of unreality” about the critique.  It is as if they have never heard the clear and frequent and public pronouncements by the Communion conservatives of their First Premises, their goals and hopes, their values, their theology or ecclesiology, their conclusions.  It makes me think that they have not listened to the Communion conservatives at all.

Dr. Radner’s Resignation from One Strategic Organization

This brings me to the ACI and Dr. Radner’s resignation from the Network.  I need to say that there are several points of disagreement that I have with the ACI, and as I have listed my disagreements with the Network above, I will list mine with the ACI as well.  I think their belief in the good will of the Archbishop of Canterbury is wrong, and naive.  I have believed and stated that for years and Rowan Williams has done nothing but confirm my belief.  That doesn’t mean that I believe that he is not a Christian believer, or creedally [at least] orthodox or a very lovely person.  I simply believe that Rowan Williams determined, very early on, that he would provide no discipline during his tenure as Archbishop of Canterbury.  With that primary goal in mind, his main strategy was delay of action by anyone, on either side.  To that end, we have the Lambeth Commission, the Windsor Report, the reception of the Windsor Report by the Primates, the rejection of the Windsor Report by the “highest legislative body” of ECUSA, the reception of the rejection at Dar Es Salaam, and the “deadline” for non-action of September 30.  Each deadline, each “reception”, each “report”, each speech and interview, each meeting was an artificial one designed to PREVENT ultimate action by either side and most certainly ultimate decision-making by Rowan Williams.  When one deadline passed, a new one was enacted—indeed the purpose of deadlines was to enact new ones, and the purpose of reports was to encourage further reports to clarify the confusion of the previous report or the previous rejection of the report—but the ultimate purpose was simply to stave off action until Archbishop William’s eventual retirement in triumph, with the Communion “undivided” at that retirement.

I understand that many do not believe my entirely cynical and political interpretation of his actions and careful strategy.  I understand that I could be wrong.  But my interpretation, I think, can be seen by StandFirm commenters as utterly and predictably consistent from year to year; I have not wavered from my belief about this.  I will be happy if I am proven wrong.  I will be thrilled.  But that is what I believe.  So one can well imagine my immense frustration when the ACI postulates actions [not words, but actions] by the Archbishop of Canterbury that I believe that the past four years have proven to be unlikely.  Nevertheless, as a Communion conservative who’s “got no place to go” I have been willing to see the game through to the bitter end.  That is my duty and calling.

There are other areas of disagreement with the ACI.  I have often thought that they have not responded quickly enough to the access that we lay peons have gained to their work.  I understand that the ACI wrote and writes today for Primates and scholars.  But since laypeople have gained access to their work largely through the power of the Internet in the past four years, it has seemed as if the ACI has marched determinedly onward with an eye for only ONE audience, when in reality they now have TWO audiences, quite by accident.  The second is made up of laypeople and clergy with almost zero power, who are desperate for practical advice “on the ground” in perfectly dreadful situations.  Perhaps that is never to be.  Perhaps the ACI will continue writing solely for people who have ultimate and international decision power.  And despite “blog-criticism” I do believe that they have done well to interact on the blogs through comments, particularly over the past year.  I appreciate that.  But still, one often gets the feeling that patients who have cancer must get when the attending physician marches in with his physician students, and the observing group begins to make medical pronouncements and analyses about the afflicted, with barely an acknowledgement of the patient’s existence. [For an excellent though terribly depressing visualization of this, see the movie Wit—but only see it with strong doses of friends, and happy pre-planned activities afterwards.  Drinkers should also imbibe a lot of scotch, beforehand.]

The patient feebly states from the bed “Doc . . . is there a treatment?  What does it all mean?  Will I get better?  Am I going to die?  What was that big word you said?”  And the attending continues grandly onward with his stately rhetorical march.  If the patient has any strength in him [unlikely] the cries from the bed will grow stronger, until the doctor turns and marches out the door, with his flock of students trailing behind him.

Finally, the ACI and their allies often seem to “read into” pronouncements by various Communion instruments what they wish to see.  I can think of no better current example than Graham Kings’ comment on Kendall’s blog yesterday:

“. . . people are still underestimating the importance of the ‘Windsor and Covenant Clause’ in the Archbishop of Canterbury’s letter of invitation to the Lambeth Conference and the seriousness of his intention in including it in his letter. It reads:

‘My hope is that as we gather we can trust that your acceptance of the invitation carries a willingness to work with these tools to shape our future.’

I have to sigh, when I read such a naive and innocent, yet serious, statement.  The average revisionist bishop, even if he saw the “Windsor and Covenant Clause” in the invitation letter, passed over it lightly with a chuckle and one or more of these thoughts: “He may hope, but hoping isn’t reality” OR “Trust away, Mr. ABC, trust away” OR “Sure, I’ll ‘work with’ these tools . . . by wholesale gutting them if not in words then in interpretation.  Watch us work!”  This latter is the most likely thought by a revisionist bishop.  They’ve always been happy to “work with” scripture, creeds, Lambeth resolutions, canons, constitution, tradition, and reason—“work with” to destruction and obliteration, that is.  But “work with” they will, Dr. Kings, believe me, “work with” they will. 

It is that kind of projection-of-hopes from Communion conservatives that causes me to fear that we are just too hopelessly apolitical to really do much good or ever be effective.  Had Rowan Williams really wished to create some sort of “criteria for acceptance” of invitations to Lambeth, he would have stated this: “Your acceptance of this invitation to the Lambeth meeting necessarily involves your acceptance of the Windsor Report and Lambeth 1.10 as the standard for Communion teaching.  We assume acceptance by your affirmative answer to this invitation and look forward with joy to your attendance.”  But he did not so state that, or anything close to or like that.  Instead, he said something as vague and nebulous as he possibly could so that all bishops could interpret it any way that they liked.

All of the above critiques being stated, I am glad that at least someone is speaking up for a communion-centered solution, and that is the Anglican Communion Institute, and pretty much ONLY the Anglican Communion Institute, at least in the U.S.

On to Dr. Radner’s resignation.

The Network’s clear trajectory or direction is out of ECUSA and out of the Anglican Communion [since Canterbury has refused to assist in setting up a new province].  Furthermore, the centerpiece of the Network is now Common Cause.  Manifestly, neither of these priorities are those of Dr. Radner’s, and it does no good to pretend that the goals, values, and activities of the Network and the ACI are not very very different.  They are.  It is impossible for a person to promote the stated goals and intentions of BOTH the Network and the ACI at the same time.

Furthermore, he was a founding member of the Network, he assisted in writing its theological charter, he wrote an entire essay about why he was a member of the Network [remember his key word in describing the Network?], and he is a prominent member of the Communion, on the Covenant Design Committee and a member and leader in the ACI think-tank.  There was no way that Dr. Radner could “slip away quietly.” Hopefully no one is imagining that that could have been the case. 

Ephraim Radner, as a person of integrity and clarity and focus, needed to resign from the Network.  And it is understandable that he should protest the statements of the leader of the Network, who clearly and publicly expressed a hopelessness and negativity over the instruments of communion and over the Anglican Communion itself.  Surely we can all admit that it would be well-nigh impossible for a leader of the ACI not to address such statements with a firm and public renunciation of them. 

Furthermore, it is understandable for some, if not most Communion conservatives to feel just a small tinge of betrayal over the very clear fact that the Network started out as a “we’re threatening to stay” organization and, as Ephraim Radner puts it “a ‘confessional’ movement within TEC, and this at the recommendation of Archbishop Rowan Williams.  It was to be “confessional” in the sense of taking a stand, on the basis of stated and articulated Gospel commitments, in the face of official church positions and practices viewed as unfaithful.”

Although I do believe that the Network honestly began with that goal, and although I do not believe that the Network intended to deceive “Communion conservatives”, it is clear that a steady shift has taken place in its strategy and goals and values.  The Network is now a “Federal conservative” organization.  It is understandable for those who were in on the early part of this organization and who hold to the same beliefs as before should feel hurt and deeply disappointed over the Network’s change, even if they do not blame the shift on any malice or attempted deceit.

 

Neal Michell, over on Kendall's site, put it this way:
"However, the real damage by the Network was done long before this week.  When so many people and churches and leaders in the Network left ECUSA, the Network became a coalition that failed to attract any other bishops and dioceses to it.  That caused the Network to fail to be a rallying place for the Orthodox in ECUSA to oppose the nonbliblical innovations within ECUSA (and Canada) and made those opposed to the Robinson family of innovations to appear to be a minority.  The departure of many fine Network leaders from ECUSA went hand in hand with the growing embrace of the Common Cause partners.  The embrace of the Common Cause partners by the Network became a further deterrent to attracting other Windsor-leaning bishops to the Network.  It was too complicated.  Too much ecumenical dialogue and issues that these other bishops were not able nor willing to engage in at this time.

As a result, the orthodox within ECUSA who want to work things out with the Communion have no real group to be a part of and to look for protection or even counsel.  None of the Network Deans are currently in ECUSA.  As it stands, those clergy and lay leaders in ECUSA but who are in non-Network dioceses don’t get any encouragement to “hang in there and fight;” rather the counsel is for them to leave.

Why are ACI and others uspet?  I can’t speak for them, but I lament the breakup of an organic, whole Anglican Communion.  I don’t want to be a part of a federation of immigrant-based Anglican bodies with a multiplicity of American bishops, none of whom speak Swahili or Spanish or Igbo, etc. from the country of their province’s origin.  There’s no real cultural integrity in that.  I prefer the organic unity of Communion over a federation of churches.  The course we are on seems to be headed toward a federation rather than a Communion. 

In my view, the grass on the other side is only dirt painted green.  We are backing into a mess of Anglican alphabet soup.  I don’t see how nor do I believe that we will ever put Humpty Dumpty back together again.  I would rather work on keeping Humpty Dumpty on the wall rather than on trying to put him back together again."


I recognize that Federal conservatives will not agree with Neal's take -- but his is a classic "Communion conservative" stance and there is no getting around the fact that the two disagree on these matters deeply.

There is one part of Dr. Radner's resignation that is troubling to me [other than the pain that he obviously feels, and the pain that the resignation will cause his allies and friends in the Network], and that is his pointless swipe at what or who is "Anglican."

Face it, friends. Fifty years from now, if any of us are still alive, there will be a small band of bizarre people called "Episcopalians" . . . and they'll be doing whatever practices that they've decided are really cool and representative of society’s beliefs at the time. Whatever they will be, I don't know -- let your imagination fly, and you will probably be right: sacrificing goats on altars, swearing allegiance to Pan, declaring that they are "vegansexual", or whatever. And you know what? They'll be saying that they are "classical Anglicans" . . . and we'll just smile.

Frankly, anyone can form their lips and tongues into the syllables and vowels of the word "Anglican" or "Christian" and name themselves that. I can personally attest to the fact that I can form my own lips and tongue into the syllables and vowels of "Buddhist" and even "blond". I can even name myself as "Buddhist" and "blond" and there is not much that anyone can do about it.

Strange sects and bizarre cults have been calling themselves "Christian" for centuries, and it makes no odds. What matters is always the same issue of discipline that Paul speaks of . . . and that is the question "Is this 'Christian' a member of your church?"

Is this 'Anglican' a member of your organization?? If not, then it makes no odds and it matters not.

So I just don't believe that we should get into a "spitting match" with other people about whether they are truly "Anglican" or not. It doesn't bother me for Continuing Anglicans or the Reformed Episcopal church, or the AMiA, or ECUSA, or Nigerian Christians to call themselves "Anglican" -- what matters is if the 'Anglican' is a part of your church. If so, he'd better be a fine representative of what your church proclaims to the world as its beliefs and practices.

I can think of no better practical example of the importance of church discipline than when the police discovered the despicable man who kidnapped Elizabeth Smart from her home and kept her captive for over a year. The press discovered that the man claimed to be "Mormon" but no sooner had they begun the crowing, then the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints stepped in and stated that he was not a member of their church, having long ago been formally excommunicated for his written heretical beliefs . . . and here were the papers to prove it. The press went away very sad, deprived of their prey. But it represents one of the great current examples of the meaningful importance of church discipline. Remember . . . any of us can claim to be Anglican. The important thing is to make certain that not "any of us" may claim to be a member of a particular Anglican church if we do not meet that church body's expectations of Christian discipleship and belief.

So, I do wish that Dr. Radner had not taken what only seems to me to be a useless, somewhat embittered swipe at who is “Anglican”.

Conservative Reaction to the Resignation

Having said all of the above, it seems as if the news that he has resigned from the Network because he does not share its goals has been met with surprise, consternation, and anger. The content-heavy accusations seem to be divided into two types -- 1) he has not “been unified”, and 2) revisionists are joyful.

With regards to the first, it seems that some people believe that “unity” occurs when people pretend to be “unified” with other people of differing goals and beliefs. But isn’t that eerily reminiscent of something -- can we have forgotten our beloved Episcopal church??? Haven’t we spent decades at General Conventions with bishops brokering pretenses of “unity” amongst people who simply do not believe the same basic gospel? Haven’t we all had enough of resolutions and statements that, when held in a certain light, mean whatever the reader hopes that they will mean, and whatever the clergy want to tell their concerned parishioner? Must even those who believe the gospel together pretend to be unified in other more minor matters, when they are actually not?

Unity occurs organically and naturally . . . when people are actually unified! It does not occur -- not really -- when one group of people says to another group “come over here with us and give up your goals and values and theology and ecclesiology and we’ll all be ‘unified’. And if that is the case, then why don’t all the Federal conservatives come on over here and “be unified” with me?

I can’t help but think of C. S. Lewis’s fine distinction between the way Satan wishes to be “unified” with us -- by absorbing us into himself, much like a spider consuming prey -- and the way God wishes to be unified with us -- through love and His own sacrificial self-giving, and through our becoming more fully ourselves, and more whom God intended us to be back before the world, the flesh, and the devil influenced us otherwise.

As to the revisionists being joyful -- I hesitate to repeat myself, but as I have said so many times before, I don’t give the revisionists’ emotions of joy, anger, distaste, or spite a second thought. No, wait, I don’t even give them a first thought. But for those commenters who are surfing over and reporting back, I’d never have known what they were thinking or feeling. I don’t read their articles, I don’t ponder their lives, I don’t attend their speeches, I don’t watch their videos . . . and from my perspective, focusing on their stuff takes the focus off of where it should be, which is our game, our strategy, our hopes, our activities. It’s one thing to watch game tape of the other side’s strategies periodically, and then get back to focusing on “our game” -- and that’s precisely what great athletes do. They may send their coach to develop a scouting report, but by and large, they focus on what makes their own game great, honing their unique and spectacular skills, and then, on the fateful day of meeting on the fields of play, “may the better player win on the day.” [And right now, it looks as if my side is not the “better player on the day” but that’s another story.]

Besides, the truth is that the smart and strategically-minded revisionists [and no, Father Jake is not one of the “strategically-minded”] will have already become aware of the disadvantages for the progressive side in Ephraim Radner’s actions. And those who have not become so aware -- well, it is not my job to worry about their mistakes of interpretation of our actions, nor is it any interest of mine to impress them or unimpress them. Either way, their opinion about our actions is essentially unimportant.

The Strengths of the Decisions We Are Making

On the Network's part, I am very pleased that they spoke with clarity and focus about their intentions. I am also pleased that they allowed dioceses, at least, some breathing room in their decisions by not overturning the accession clause in their constitution [this breathing room is not really applicable to parishes in revisionist dioceses, sadly, and I have already spent some time on the phone regarding decisions that Communion conservatives must now make.] And the fact that the Network is setting sail only after September 30 is a marvellous thing. The most generous and courageous decision, though, in light of their expressed and public theology and goals, is to attend what is to be, I expect, a perfectly dreadful House of Bishops meeting in September. No one on the reasserting side will look forward to this. Such meetings are usually filled with alternating screeching insults or cold disdain, and neither is pleasant to endure over a several day period.

All of us should be grateful for these actions by the Network, especially since their trajectory and intentions are so clear.

I have already mentioned one strength in Ephraim’s resignation -- it provides clarity.

Clarity is almost always a good thing -- a very good thing. It allows the varying individuals and groups within relationships to tell the truth, gain awareness of reality, rather than falsehood, and act in knowledge of the truth. Clarity strengthens organizations and individuals, just by its existence. If two people, or two groups, are in trouble in a relationship, no matter how bleak it looks, clarity is one of the first things that a counselor or pastor will seek. Best to know what one is working with.

Ephraim’s actions will also bring strength to both Communion and Federal conservatives. Both groups will have a more purposeful focus, and can gather around the differing goals of each with more internal unity, ironically. And there is less need to moderate or blur the direction of either group.

Moreover, the Federal conservatives honest willingness to “move on” with integrity and honor places -- accidentally -- all sorts of pressure on Canterbury and other players who have hesitated amongst many and varying opinions. There is nothing so frightening as an unleashed, driven person who has been freed of “anything to lose” -- and I have a feeling that this “nothing to lose” attitude will become startlingly clear and nervewracking. Communion conservatives have opportunity here -- although that’s a subject of another article entirely. But let’s just say that the Network makes the ACI look . . . shall we say . . . awfully moderate all of a sudden -- which is The Classic Revisionist ECUSA Game of so many decades, turned on its head.

Finally, and along the same lines, it is the “moderate” conservative bishops -- those who in the past I have named “trusting conservatives” -- who will also feel immense pressure. Greg Griffith’s metaphor of the crystal ball springs handily to mind. As each conservative on the right end of the pew slips away, he hands the crystal ball to the next person over, who once proudly proclaimed his moderation, and who is now on the “right end” of the pew.

You see, ECUSA won’t -- can’t -- stop plunging forward. It’s a stagecoach with some runaway horses and a clear field ahead. Moderate conservatives -- especially the naturally “stabilizing” and institutional bishops -- have much revisionist “shock and awe” ahead for them over the next, oh, say five years. It won’t be pretty. And I frankly think that will be good for the moderate conservatives. Time for them to know what it feels like to be on the very front row with a window seat of the runaway stagecoach.

There will be no buffer for them.

Our Character & the Gift of Leavetaking

All of the above analysis and critique is not the most important thing we have to learn, though. The most important thing in all of this is who we are all becoming.

And becoming has a whole lot to do with our present-day actions and choices right now.

All this time, we’ve been walking along a path, in conversation, as friends and allies. We’ve tried to be clear -- “I want to head over there eventually,” and “I don’t think I want to go there” -- but at some point, we can move no longer together on the same path. It will be time for individuals and groups to move toward their chosen destination -- to take a branch toward the mountains in the East, or toward the forests of the West, or elsewhere entirely.

There will be more of such leavetakings among us, many more.

So the question is, both spiritually and practically, how do we engage in the leavetaking.

In a sense, every human being partakes of leavetaking, throughout life. The child grows up and takes leave, steadily and surely, of his parent’s rule and priorities. The good parent encourages such leave-takings. The daughter takes leave of her college. The son takes leave to a new home and new family. The employee takes leave of his old job. The Christian takes leave, painfully and haltingly, of his old self, to become a new and transformed self. Our parents take leave of us and we weep. Our friends move on, and some of them go to the Grey Havens before we do. And of course, each one of us reading these words will go through a LeaveTaking that is final, mysterious, and never yet experienced. All of our lives is about leavetaking.

Tolkien’s three-book story, The Lord of the Rings, chronicles the story of the nine-person fellowship that is created to care for, guard, and ultimately destroy the ring. They travel together, eat and sleep together, fight together, and take counsel together. Although the story is filled with immense suffering, loss, confusion, and fear, one of the most painful times for the reader, and for the cast of characters, is when sudden violent catastrophe calls away two of their number, two more are captured, one is killed, one disappears, and the remaining three try to decide which direction to travel.

“Alas! said Aragorn. ‘Thus passes the heir of Denethor, Lord of the Tower of Guard! This is a bitter end. Now the Company is all in ruin. It is I that have failed. Vain was Gandalf’s trust in me. What shall I do now? Boromir has laid it on me to go to Minas Tirith, and my heart desires it; but were are the Ring and the Bearer? How shall I find them and save the Quest from disaster?’

He knelt for a while, bent with weeping, still clasping Boromir’s hand. So it was that Legolas and Gimli found him. . . .

‘Our choice then,’ said Gimli, ‘is either to take the remaining boat and follow Frodo, or else to follow the Orcs on foot. There is little hope either way. We have already lost precious hours.’

‘Let me think!’ said Aragorn. ‘And now may I make a right choice, and change the evil fate of this unhappy day!’ He stood silent for a moment. ‘I will follow the Orcs,’ he said at last. ‘I would have guided Frodo to Mordor and gone with him to the end; but if I seek him now in the wilderness, I must abandon the captives to torment and death. My heart speaks clearly at last: ‘the fate of the Bearer is in my hands no longer. The Company has played its part. Yet we that remain cannot forsake our companions while we have strength left. Come! We will go now. Leave all that can be spared behind! We will press on by day and dark!’


The fracture of the fellowship takes place at the end of the first book -- and there are still two books more in the series.

More leavetakings occur. Gandalf must be about mysterious business and he always seems to be missing in action at crucial turning points. The three who had sought their two friends find them at last, then must make another fateful decision about a course of action opposed by their allies who wish to march to defend the city of Minas Tirith.

“[Aragorn] looked up, and it seemed that he had made some decision; his face was less troubled. ‘Then, by your leave, lord, I must take our own road, and no longer in secret. For me the time of stealth has passed. I will ride east by the swiftest way, and I will take the Paths of the Dead.’

‘The Paths of the Dead!’ said Theoden, and trembled. ‘Why do you speak of them?’ Eomer turned and gazed at Aragorn, and it seemed to Merry that the faces of the Riders that sat within hearing turned pale at the words. ‘If there be in truth such paths,’ said Theoden, ‘their gate is in Dunharrow; but no living man may pass it.’

‘Alas! Aragorn my friend!’ said Eomer. ‘I had hoped that we should ride to war together; but if you seek the Paths of the Dead, then our parting is come, and it is little likely that we shall ever meet again under the Sun.’

‘That road, I will take, nonetheless,’ said Aragorn. ‘But I say to you, Eomer, that in battle we may yet meet again, though all the hosts of Mordor should stand between.’

“You will do as you will, my lord Aragorn,’ said Theoden. ‘It is your doom, maybe, to tread strange paths that others dare not. This parting grieves me, and my strength is lessened by it; but now I must take the mountain roads and delay no longer. Farewell!’

‘Farewll, lord!’ said Aragorn. ‘Ride unto great renown!


As we follow their adventures and tales, the reader slowly begins to recognize that the fellowship, in fact, is not broken. It is not broken at all. The characters are bound together forever, and their reunions -- and departures -- are tender and joyful, full of pain and suffering, but majestic and glorious.

In the saddest closing chapter of a book ever written, because it is filled with the knowledge of unseen beauty and longing that all human beings experience to one degree or another, the hero of the story cannot remain with his trusted friends, but must eventually take the long journey to the Grey Havens because, as he says,
“I tried to save the Shire, and it has been saved, but not for me. It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: some one has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them.”


How do honorable people, people of character and purpose and wisdom, take leave of one another at the given and appointed time?

Because that is the sort of person that I want to become. That is a part of the great purposes of God in our lives.

How do we watch our friends and allies take different paths, ones which we question and argue against?

As Episcopalians and Anglicans in the U.S. we have surely had enough experience in this as we watch our friends join the Roman Catholic church, the Presbyterian church, the new start-up Anglican church, the Lutheran church, the PCA church, the seeker-friendly non-denominational church.

So with our allies -- with people that have travelled together, fought together, and taken counsel together -- we must continue that experience.

It may be with remonstrance and debate and forthright, public honesty about the perils of the intended path. But it is not with shrill cries of insult, like children calling after former playmates, or with hurled stones at the backs of the departing, proclaiming them cowards.

It is finally with a clasped hand, and straightforward gaze, and with thanks and tears. It is with honor for the battle scars of the other, and it is with blessing and hope for a bright future. Though I have expressed my honest doubts, I want nothing more than for the Archbishop of Canterbury to reveal wisdom and honor and strength in his decisions. I want nothing more than for the uniting churches of Common Cause to leech the poison, unite with health, and flourish in discipleship and numbers. I want nothing more than for the Anglican Communion Institute to help to launch the revival of the Anglican Communion through their insight and teaching, by God's grace. I want nothing more than for the Network to embark upon a pattern of church planting, evangelism, and covenant keeping that sets our country on fire with repentance and love for Jesus.

With these hopes, as we watch varying allies tighten their sword belts, shoulder their packs, turn, and walk into the mists of the mountains, or the green mystery of the forests, during a very perilous time of spiritual and church conflict, we take leave with blessing and a hope that “in battle we may yet meet again, though all the hosts of Mordor should stand between.’

And then we turn to those companions that remain and take comfort from them. We mourn together -- a little -- then take stock of our supplies, prepare our plans, and “press on by day and dark.” In the coming months, a part of my contribution to this effort will be more essays that will take us further along the road of Strategery 101 -- much further.

But for all of us, taking whatever varying paths there are to choose amongst reasserting Anglicans, I wish that we will carry forth the standard of Jesus Christ, and encourage one another to “ride unto great renown."

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Comments:

This is one of the most beautiful, spirit filled witnesses I have read on any of the blogs discussing our church, and is prompting me to write for the first time. I believe in the depth of my heart that Sarah’s spirit filled words about leavetaking are of the very same substance as the ones my gay and lesbian brothers and sisters in Christ often have spoken with their married spouses as they too embarked on their leavetakings, knowing, as Sarah has put it so well, that even at the end of a marriage covenant, the “fellowship, in fact,  is not broken” but that we are “bound together forever, and [our] reunions—and departures—are tender and joyful, full of pain and suffering, but majestic and glorious.” Is this not what the Archbishop of Canterbury has been bearing witness to again and again as the essence of the Christian faith? Even as we find ourselves needing to take different paths, the bond of love is stronger than our selves, and our communion rooted much deeper than we can ask or imagine. Thank you, Sarah, for the depth of your faithful and heart-rending sharing of your witness.
Your brother in Christ,
Clark

[1] Posted by clark west on 08-03-2007 at 12:04 PM • top

Thank you for your clarity, Sarah.

[2] Posted by Judith L on 08-03-2007 at 12:17 PM • top

Thank you so much for this Sarah. It does deserve one of those “long article” tag-lines up top, but current situation has me upset enough to plow through.

In the end maybe like teenagers leaving home, the process has to have a little heat to push each who is called to fix their face firmly towards their calling. I also fear the lessons of past reformations will be lost of not becoming too set in your path that one begins to assume the role of God in making pronouncements of the future or on the opposite tactic reformer.

Your essay give a clam summation of this parting and IMO is balanced on both sides. In one sense I read some Communion Conservative like St. Paul before leaving Ephesus in Acts 20 when warned yet like flint he knew his calling. If that is what Lord Jesus is calling let no educated man stand in the way. It is not my calling, but a deep respect.

Thank you for your thoughtful words in a time when passions seem to be running a tad high. May the Lord bless each with every gift needed to fulfill His mission in all the various contexts.

[3] Posted by Hosea6:6 on 08-03-2007 at 12:18 PM • top

Thanks Sarah for pouring your heart, mind, and soul into this near book-length article.  I quick-read it and it’s impossible to provide a full-fledged, in-depth response to ALL the substantive points that you’re attempting to register.

Be that as it may, let me just start the initial foray of blog discussion of your article on this secondary point:  You reference the terms Communion Conservative and Federal Conservative extensively throughout your essay.  I have asked the question previously on another SFIF thread about the utility of these distinctions.  The Elves pointed me to a comment posted by Terry Wong, a GS secretary.  Spencer wrote that it’s really just Christians and pagans.

I’ll ask again, do you consider the distinctions CommCon and FedCon as being more helpful or more unhelpful in the discussion among orthodox Anglicans?

[4] Posted by Truth Unites... and Divides on 08-03-2007 at 12:21 PM • top

well spoken, sarah.
perhaps i am in a dreamworld, but i think it is possible that the recent network actions actually might be the seedbed for an anglican communion solution—ie. a possible new province.
likewise, while i seem to fall into the category of “communion conservative,” should the AC itself fall apart, i would seriously consider the “federal” anglicanism as a realistic alternative, simply because i do not resonate with any of the other established streams.

[5] Posted by Zoomdaddy on 08-03-2007 at 12:24 PM • top

Hosea 6:6,

RE: “It does deserve one of those “long article” tag-lines up top, but current situation has me upset enough to plow through.”

As you wish.  ; > )

[6] Posted by Sarah on 08-03-2007 at 12:24 PM • top

TUAD,

I consider the terms to be helpful, as they are the only way I know to write a shorthand word to describe those people who are more like Matt Kennedy in their decisions and those people who are more like Sarah Hey in their decisions, regarding Anglicanism and what to do and how to act strategically.

Incidentally, I do believe that Matt is one of the few people on the FedCon side that is able to fairly describe much of the CommCon position, and I strive to be that way about the FedCon position, although I know that both of us make mistakes.  But I believe that he tries, and I do too.

I understand that you do not think the terms helpful.  But I’m unable to think of a way to describe the clear divide between the two, without using the terms.  And I do hope that you are not trying to deny the clear divide, which indeed does exist, as I hope that blog comments everywhere amply demonstrate.

[7] Posted by Sarah on 08-03-2007 at 12:29 PM • top

Dear Sarah,
Thank you so much for your well-reasoned and thoughful essay - I’ll be re-reading it a number of times in the upcoming weeks. You’ve given me clarity of thought and a way to explain why I am still where I am.

[8] Posted by lpanglican on 08-03-2007 at 12:39 PM • top

I think the terms CommCon and FedCon are helpful to a limited extent.  This is what I wrote on the initial +Radner resignation thread:

(1) Spencer writes:  “It is coming clear to me that there are only Christians and pagans.  ComCons and FedCons remain together.  We are one!  I believe in my heart that Dr. Radner will see this truth very soon.”

(2) The Elves write:  “Terry Wong from Singapore, one of the Global South leaders, has a very interesting comment on that over at T19…”

I agree that the term CommCon and FedCon has a rather limited usefulness.  I think it could be easily argued that Rev. Duncan is a CommCon and Rev. Radner is a FedCon!  It’s an artificial divide.  I think the ends are the same; it’s just that there are differences on the recognition of event triggers, the strategy, the timing, and the execution of making course corrections for the Anglican Titanic.

I really do believe that “FedCons” want to be within the Communion with the ABC.  And that “CommCons” want the false teaching and heresy to cease within the Communion.  It’s just that the two different constituencies need to be more unified on the means and methods on effecting the mutual goals they share.

[9] Posted by Truth Unites... and Divides on 08-03-2007 at 12:44 PM • top

Sarah, completely agree with your descrip. of the ABC.  How could anyone think otherwise after the last few years?

What will you, and possibly other Comm. Con.‘s be thinking/doing if Sep. 30th comes and goes, and nothing really changes, ABC creates another milestone/process etc….?

Forgive if you have already addressed this, just point me to where your comments are.  Thanks,  LFL

[10] Posted by Looking for Leaders on 08-03-2007 at 12:53 PM • top

Whatever they will be, I don’t know—let your imagination fly, and you will probably be right: sacrificing goats on altars, swearing allegiance to Pan, declaring that they are they are “vegansexual”, or whatever. And you know what? They’ll be saying that they are “classical Anglicans” . . . and we’ll just smile.

You are right Sarah.  They’ll be doing all that and more at The Cathedral Church of Saint Louie and Saint Ernest.

[11] Posted by Piedmont on 08-03-2007 at 01:02 PM • top

Now that right there my friends is a wonderful Friday Afternoon Palate Cleanser (with Tolkien to boot)! Brilliant.  Many thanks Sarah, for my soul was weary before reading this.

[12] Posted by Widening Gyre on 08-03-2007 at 01:03 PM • top

The whole nine yards.

[13] Posted by Pageantmaster [Free Archbishop Cranmer] on 08-03-2007 at 01:05 PM • top

Basically there has not been more communication between Network and Windsor Bishops because of the divergence in strategy and the fact that some Bishops were reporting movements and strategies back to 815.  There was an attempt to remove Duncan in St Louis because he was not behaving in an Anglican manner, whatever that is.

[14] Posted by francis on 08-03-2007 at 01:05 PM • top

Sarah,
This is simply beautiful.  Mid way through I was quite hopelessly depressed, but in the end I feel encouraged.  I still have hope that pressure on the ABC will bring about discipline, but if not I have hope in an alternative Communion, and if all else fails then at least I can be Christian soldier in exile until some future reunion, Christ returns or death takes me.

I am curious however what your future plans may be.  As a ComCon, where will you go?  I seem to remember you stating earlier that if things turn out as gloomy as you predict that you would probably go non-denom (in exile).  Are you still leaning this way or are your ComCon leanings so strong that you would stay with Dr. Radner or perhaps cross the Tiber?  I am quite curious, because I too am a ComCon who, I suppose like you, is a much more moderate ComCon than Dr. Radner.  I have assumed that moderate ComCons would go with the FedCons post 9/30, but here you seem to think that unlikely.  Incidentally this is why I think that FedComs and ComCons are not so very far apart after all.  My view, perhaps erroneously, is that one who claims to be a ComCon but doesn’t either join the FedCons or cross the Tiber post 9/30 is actually not a ComCon, but what I call an institutionalist. 

BTW, to answer TU&D;, I think the terms are useful for discussion purposes, but I also think they cause division if we start labeling people as such.  Labels tend to pigeon-hole people and I believe both you (Sarah) and I are examples of where the label does not fit.  We seem to have both Com and Fed qualities so perhaps I could be labeled a QuasiFedComCon! LOL! 

Seriously though, I am interested in possible paths that you are exploring for yourself, if you would be so kind as to share. 

Thanks again for this beautiful essay!

[15] Posted by Spencer on 08-03-2007 at 01:13 PM • top

You said it all!  Praying for wisdom for all parties, post September 30th.

N.

[16] Posted by nette on 08-03-2007 at 01:14 PM • top

Sarah Hey is one of my heroes.  This is as insightful as it is beautifully written.  It is always a pleasure to read you prose, Sarah, and especially when it contains such gems of observation and wisdom.

As for CommCons blaming FedComs for leaving TEC, consider that in many cases they were forced out.  The leadership of St Johns Tallahassee was CommCon, but a small but socially powerful clique of parishioners (about 31 individuals out of 1000 active members) in allegiance with Bishop Howard conspired, behind the rector’s back, for over a year to rid St Johns of its leadership.  What they didn’t count on was that a significant number pressed the leadership to stay and build an orthodox Anglican presence in Tallahassee, namely, St Peters.  Ultimately, 800 of the 1000 have fled St Johns to St Peters Anglican Church.  Father Dudley never would have left TEC on his own, he was forced to do so by the duplicitous action of the this small cabal and the Bishop.

[17] Posted by Philip Bowers on 08-03-2007 at 01:15 PM • top

Beautifully done, Sarah.  I am now truly sorry that I was unable to ake it to Sioux Falls earlier.  May you continue in the fellowship of the faithful.

Chip+

[18] Posted by Chip Johnson, cj on 08-03-2007 at 01:23 PM • top

Sarah (or anyone else), would you please harmonize the following two passages for my edification?

(1)  And yet . . . the Communion conservatives have clearly, and repeatedly, and publicly stated that their values and goals are for Communion-discipline, a Communion-solution, Communion-integrity, Communion-identity.

(2)  I simply believe that Rowan Williams determined, very early on, that he would provide no discipline during his tenure as Archbishop of Canterbury.

The only reconciliation of these two passages that I can see is this statement:  “Nevertheless, as a Communion conservative who’s “got no place to go” I have been willing to see the game through to the bitter end. That is my duty and calling.”

Could you also elaborate a bit more by defining the “bitter end” for your particular circumstance, knowing full well that others define the “bitter end” differently for their own situations?

[19] Posted by Truth Unites... and Divides on 08-03-2007 at 01:24 PM • top

TU&D;,

I think you have it. She means to stand and fight within TEC or within the Communion recognised province of the Canterbury centered Anglican Communion in North America until it (the communion) dies or until or is reformed. She sees it as her duty to stay and fight even if the fight is lost.

The ACI seems to think the fight winnable. Sarah does not, apart from divine intervention, agree. She seems to think Canterbury lost. But she feels called to fight to the end anyway. This is a good and noble thing.

And when it is lost, she, apparently, intends to go elsewhere…meaning to a non-Anglican denomination.

[20] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 08-03-2007 at 01:37 PM • top

Hi all, there have been several questions above about my own decisions.  I’ve written pretty extensively about that elsewhere, but the ending point for me with regards to the Anglican Communion is when it fractures, and is thus no longer the “Anglican Communion”.  So I would not be one of those who says “whereever the ABC is, there the communion still exists.”  ; > )

The Anglican Communion’s fracture will also be the ending point for me with regards to Anglicanism in the U.S.  If God moves me to another country, perhaps in one of the Global South provinces, I may reconsider. But again, I was pretty clear above, and in other essays, that I do not see a hope for a flourishing Anglicanism in the U.S. save in some nice urban areas like Plano and Northern Virginia and Raleigh, NC.

Should the Anglican Communion fracture, I intend to seek and join the local congregational church that best offers a combination of evangelization of the lost, discipling of the believer, and sensitive engagement with and challenge of the secular culture.  As a Protestant I am not able to join either the Roman or the Eastern Orthodox churches.  And so my decision will mean a clear surrender of anything approaching church authority, save on a tiny, fragmented, local basis—I will acknowledge that the Anglican Communion’s attempt at conciliar authority was a failure, and thus I will move on to an effective, if highly stunted and narrow vision of church authority as merely local, and incidentally, not at all as God intended the church to practice.

Should that very sad ending [for me] occur, it will be many many years before I am active again in a church, beyond attendance and mild involvement. 

All of the above means something, for me, that I have said elsewhere: the stakes are high.

Even if the above events occur, I will always love Anglicanism, even if it will only be an idea and not reality for this country.

I write pretty extensively about all of this in these essays:
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/3082/
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/3096/
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/3117/

I know the above will be vehemently disagreed with by many.

And I don’t say it with a lack of emotion—I’ve shed plenty of tears today and other days.

But I don’t want to argue about it with anyone, please.  You all can argue about it amongst yourselves.  ; > )

Maybe another time when I’m my old feisty self.

[21] Posted by Sarah on 08-03-2007 at 01:45 PM • top

Sarah—Well done as usual, from mind and heart.

Putting together the line from the title—Fields of Battle—and the theme of leavetaking, I think of border-state southerners in the War Between the States. I imagine a town in east Tennessee where Union commitments were strong. Of the ones who went to war for the Confederacy, some went right away with slim news of regional clashes. Some waited for Lincoln to call for northern troops; others waited for those particular troops to be deployed in northern Virginia. Others waited until it was clear to both sides that Mannassas was not the quick, war-ending showdown. On and on. Some waited a year or for the draft. All of these had to face some form of leave-taking involving those who kept talking about the hope of the Union.

Others waited the whole thing out and had to live with the blighted aftermath.

This is not a perfect analogy, but I think it addresses some of the strong feelings and words in our current situation.

[22] Posted by Bull Street on 08-03-2007 at 01:49 PM • top

In this case…

 
           
I think we have to go all out.

 
           
I think this situation absolutely requires…

 
           
a really futile and stupid gesture…

 
           
be done on somebody’s part.

 
           
We’re just the guys to do it.

 
           
Let’s do it.

 
           
Let’s do it!

The above is an excerpt from Animal House where the boys decide, at the very end, to go out in a blaze of glory. It is beginning to look like that is all we have left.

the snarkster

[23] Posted by the snarkster on 08-03-2007 at 01:55 PM • top

Sarah,

As usual while a long read, one that is eminently important to the current discussion.  I would like to thank you for your able attempt in illustrating the two principle points, which this week’s hot discussion, comes out of.  If anyone had any doubt, as to why these two groups are taking passed each other, reading this should remove it.

[24] Posted by Stu Howe on 08-03-2007 at 02:10 PM • top

Oh, and “vegansexual” (you brought it up). I would just like to sit around this evening with Greg and Drell and cigars and some really good sour mash whiskey and talk that one over. I would have included you except I know your feelings about cigars (not to mention the combination with libations).

[25] Posted by Bull Street on 08-03-2007 at 02:19 PM • top

So is it that the only way we can get what we really want is to create the motivation to give it to us (the Fed Con’s job of developing an alternative future as a credible threat) and the vision of what the future we want is (the Com Con’s job of developing the Anglican Communion vision)? These are different functions and moving into the appropriate work groups is now essential. The people developing the vision of the future of the Canterbury centered Anglican Commuion cannot associate too directly with the people threatening to create an alternative to the Communion. But they need that threat to be articulated and supported to maintain their negotiating power.
We can respect that both work groups are members of the body of Christ and make leave taking with grace and charity.

[26] Posted by Deja Vu on 08-03-2007 at 02:42 PM • top

Truth Unites,

Since you invited anyone to respond, I will, but only for myself. 

Communion Discipline can come from other than the ABC.  To some extent, Dar es Salaam was a kind of discipline.  Any doubts, ask Katherine Schori how she felt at the end of the meeting.  Lambeth and the Covenant process can bring some discipline.  At some point the ABC will have to act if Lambeth and the Covenant call for him to act.  I am slightly, and only slightly, more optamistic about the ABC than Sarah.  He is politically shrewd enough to know that he cannot continue to be entirely passive.  I think a good deal of what he has been trying to do is to see who he can get to move the most.  Neither side is showing any willingness to move.  The only thing he cannot do is make no decision, because even inaction will be a decision at this point. 

As for the bitter end, I cannot say for myself.  It’s a bit like asking a presidential candidate at what point he will drop out of the race.  Any answer is an admission of defeat.  I will be interested to see what happens on 9-30, but I have not set that as a deadline.  It may be that the bitter end is when the last hanging chad drops to the floor, and my parish is the only one left with an Episcopal Church sign because every other Episcopal Church has either departed for CANA etc. or died because its members have all decided that ACT UP is a better place to put their efforts.  In which case, my little parish will be Frodo. 

Sarah,

Great article.

[27] Posted by revrj on 08-03-2007 at 02:45 PM • top

I’ve written pretty extensively about that elsewhere, but the ending point for me with regards to the Anglican Communion is when it fractures, and is thus no longer the “Anglican Communion”.

Assumption:  If TEC is disciplined, this would not constitute a fractured Anglican Communion, correct?  You would still remain and you would be thrilled to be proven wrong about the ABC and his ability (alongside the other primates) to discipline TEC via a consensual Communion-wide fashion, correct?

Furthermore, you are aware that ACI and others are working feverishly in back-channels to re-configure Lambeth invitations.  You are also aware that key GS primates are weary of defiant unrepentant behavior and ongoing heresies by TEC toward WR and the DES Communique.  And if there is no genuine repentance followed by no Communion consequences, i.e., no real discipline for TEC, then they will, in all probability, follow Christ outside of Canterbury.

If this event were to occur, then you’d be looking to worship in a non-Anglican church.

But!   But Wait!  Please think about what would change that scenario above.  It would be the promise by the GS primates to separate out from the Anglican Communion in the event of non-discipline that the ABC has to factor into his calculus.  This public pressure augmented by the public contingency planning of the Network is the small hopeful slender thread that carries the hope that TEC will be disciplined, the GS primates remain, and the Anglican Communion remain intact.

It is for that very reason that I believe that CommCons and FedCons need to present a united front to the ABC.  If he unwisely aligns with TEC through either continued dithering or a false report of sham compliance, he will know in advance that a substantial chunk of the Anglican Communion will depart.  He cannot claim ignorance.

It is this pressure, this united pressure, which may tip the scales in favor of the orthodox Anglicans.  That is why I argue so forcefully that CommCons need to back up and support FedCons fully.  It is the promise of multiple province leave-taking (a promise, NOT a threat) that will hopefully provide the needed pressure upon the ABC to do what is right, i.e., to discipline TEC.

As the progenitor of the phrase “heavy lifting”, I know what I meant when I wrote that.  I reviewed my initial post (thread listed below) and I can see where someone would think that I’m advocating separation.  Let me thus clarify:  I am advocating that you (you = provinces, GS primates, dioceses, churches, individuals) PROMISE to leave the Anglican Communion if TEC remains defiant AND there is no communion-discipline for the unrepentance by the ABC and the primates (assuming a primates’ meeting to assess the TEC response by the 9/30 date).

It is the Promise to separate that is the “heavy lifting”.  The ACN council meeting was merely public contingency planning in the event that the ABC doesn’t believe the Orthodox will keep that Promise. 

http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/4668

P.S.  FWIW, I think it’s utterly sad and ridiculous that such crude measures have to be thought out and planned to get the ABC to do the biblically correct thing.  To me, he should just do what Scripture commands in the face of unrepentant heresy and apostasy, and he should have done it a long time ago.  If it takes the promise of GS primates leaving for him to do the right thing, then I think that’s a sad commentary on the ABC.

[28] Posted by Truth Unites... and Divides on 08-03-2007 at 02:55 PM • top

Sarah, You wrote…

Should that very sad ending [for me] occur, it will be many many years before I am active again in a church, beyond attendance and mild involvement.

Ah my dear Sarah, if I may continue your LOTR analogy…  As Aragorn said to Eowen, “You are a daughter of Kings. A shield-maiden of Rohan. I do not think that will be you fate.”

Sarah, You are a daughter of the almighty King!  You have been given great gifts from the Lord (as is obvious) and whatever context you may find yourself in henceforth, I have the firm belief that you will use those gifts to minister to those around you.  Weep not fair maiden, for the Lord says, “For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.” Jer 29:11

Do not weep, be encouraged.  Whatever may come, trust in the Lord and he will guide your steps, he will meet your every need.
Do not despair, but “Be Blessed”,
Spencer

[29] Posted by Spencer on 08-03-2007 at 03:14 PM • top

TU&D;,
I too have hope that the ABC will be pressured into doing the right thing.  I also think it is sad that such pressure is required, yet I also know that God mostly works through his people and only rarely through divine miracles.  So perhaps this pressure is just one more way in which God is working through his people.  Moses certainly put pressure on Pharaoh; Nathan confronted David about Bathsheba; Elijah rebuked Ahab; and if we fast forward a bit, Jesus confronted the Pharisees quite strongly.  Perhaps this is the way it must be…  I had hoped for better, but if this is what the Lord wills, then I won’t complain if the Communion is saved through such pressure.

[30] Posted by Spencer on 08-03-2007 at 03:52 PM • top

Sarah, I thank you for your essays.  You helped me understand why I sometimes feel so confused about where I stand.  I realize now that I am a Communion Conservative (but I was ready to hand in my resignation after Dr. Radner’s letter).  I now have a better understanding of the Federal Conservatives and why they don’t seem to hold the same ideas I do when we seem to want many of the same things.
Unlike you, if all the stone bridges fall, I will likely go to Rome (there is no Orthodox Church in my area) because a sacramental church is important to me (but not more important than God’s word).  I keep telling Jesus that it might be a good time for him to come back.
Staying connected through Stand Firm, strengthened especially by your insightful writing, helps me stay the course.
Oh that our tears could wash away the sin—mine and others—that has brought us to this point.  I take comfort in remembering that Jesus also wept and grieved.  I pray that like Him, I may continue to seek the Father’s will for my life and for the BODY OF CHRIST—not just the Episcopal Church or the Anglican Communion.  And then act on it!

[31] Posted by lambswool on 08-03-2007 at 04:36 PM • top

So perhaps this pressure is just one more way in which God is working through his people.  ...  Perhaps this is the way it must be… I had hoped for better, but if this is what the Lord wills, then I won’t complain if the Communion is saved through such pressure.

Ahhhhhh Spencer, you are such an intelligent Communion Conservative.  You totally get it.  It is why I am so grieved that Dr. Radner and ACI are counter-acting and nullifying the pressure needed to preserve the Communion.  They so totally miss the paradox:  You have to promise to leave the Communion in order to save and preserve the Communion as a purified Bride for the Bridegroom.

Thanks Spencer for totally understanding that there needs to be true unity between Communion Conservatives and Federal Conservatives in order to pressure the ABC into preserving the Communion by retaining the GS primates, and to stop the heresy and apostasy from being a malignant cancer throughout the entire Anglican Communion.

[32] Posted by Truth Unites... and Divides on 08-03-2007 at 04:48 PM • top

I understand everyone’s exhaustion as we get closer to the end of September, but I really think all the dismal talk of the decline of Anglicanism in North America is a bit premature.  In many, many ways, I think, Anglicanism hasn’t been more healthy than it is RIGHT NOW in North America!  I think Bishop Duncan, and the “Federal Conservatives” are much more committed to the historic Communion than people think they are, and I also think that Rev. Radner and other “Communion Conservatives” are more pragmatic than simply going down with the ship.  Sorry, but I just don’t see Sarah sitting (quietly) in some non-denominational congregational church not being involved five years down the road—do you?  Seriously?  Let’s not forget that there’s an awful lot of posturing going on right now.  The stakes are very high as we go into September, and my bet is that Bishop Duncan is a pretty good poker player—and so, my guess would be, is Archbishop Akinola and other hardline Global South Primates.  In short, NOTHING is lost yet, not even the ABC.  I know it’s August and bloody hot, but let’s all try to cool down a bit and put things in perspective.  There will surely be some leave-taking, but I don’t think it’s going to be anything as dramatic as Sarah predicts above.  God bless!

[33] Posted by Chris Taylor on 08-03-2007 at 04:49 PM • top

And when it is lost, she, apparently, intends to go elsewhere…meaning to a non-Anglican denomination.

And wherever that may be I have no doubt she will go with God, and whatever church gets her will be very blessed.

[34] Posted by Gayle on 08-03-2007 at 04:51 PM • top

Chris,
I am already late so I’ll make this quick,  You said,

Sorry, but I just don’t see Sarah sitting (quietly) in some non-denominational congregational church not being involved five years down the road—do you?  Seriously?  Let’s not forget that there’s an awful lot of posturing going on right now.

Seriously, No.  But I do not believe that this is posturing.  In Sarah’s case I believe her to be demoralized, emotionally spent, and these words come from her heart, not from political posturing.  As for Duncan, I believe him to be sincere.  Is he letting the ABC knows where he stands?  Of course he is and is right to do so, but this is not posturing.  Neither do I think Radner to be posturing.  All these people though they may all disagree are men and women of honor and conscience and they speak out of their convictions.

Got to go…

[35] Posted by Spencer on 08-03-2007 at 05:33 PM • top

Thanks, Sarah.  This thread seems to have much more grace in it than several of the post-Radner resignation threads otherwise found on SF this week.
  In my non ACN, non Windsor diocese, I think traditional Episcopalians are sitting tight, seeing how the process will work out.  That probably makes us ComCons.

[36] Posted by Dick Mitchell on 08-03-2007 at 05:37 PM • top

FWIW, I think the distinction between Commcons and Fedcons is a very useful one for the immediate circumstances of Anglicans and post-Anglicans in North America, but I don’t think this usefulness will much outlive the denouement of the current conflict. Moreover, I don’t think the difference between the two factions is primarily one of strategy, but of ultimate goals.

Communion conservatives, in short, believe that as long as is possible, we should not be separated from a historic see and heritage that have both admirably served as “instruments of unity” throughout our church history. We uneasily suspect that it is intrinsically and pragmatically necessary to a thriving Anglicanism. As long as is possible, we should seek reform and renewal and discipline through the Communion and not outside of it; only should the Communion itself fracture, will we move away from it.

I agree completely. But from my PoV the fracturing of the Communion has already begun. I reluctantly came to that conclusion about a year ago when Abp. Akinola and company began to break ranks with Canterbury, undermining the ABC’s efforts to isolate the North American revisionists through the Windsor and Covenant processes.

And some of us suspect that NONE of the Global South primates have any intentions of announcing their departure from the Anglican Communion as some of them seem to be asking of traditional Episcopalians. The unevenness of their intentions for us and their intentions for themselves is striking.

While they are not announcing their departure, I think some of them are moving in that direction. I suspect the Fedcons’ African patrons are secretly Fedcons themselves. They see the weakening of Canterbury and the Communion as an opportunity, not a sacrifice, and they are therefore quietly promoting that weakening.

They speak of surrendering the idea of Anglicanism within the US, and moving on to a functional church of another type altogether. Some mention Rome, some Geneva, some Augsburg. Few of them mention CANA.

Don’t forget Antioch! (The focus of the latest issue of AGAIN magazine is “The Encounter of Orthodoxy and Anglicanism.” Three members of my new parish are featured in this issue.) Anyway, I agree. Those who hold a Communion ecclesiology will look for a communion to join, not a federation.

Regarding +Rowan, I disagree completely. As you say, he encouraged the founding of the Network. He has continued to push the Windsor process forward. Within days of GC 2006, he responded by proposing an Anglican Covenant as a way of promoting unity and enforcing discipline in the Communion. In short, he has done exactly what one would expect of 1) the ABC, one of the “instruments of unity,” whose job description includes holding together the Communion; and 2) a scholar who knows the care and patience with which the Fathers dealt with similar problems in the early centuries of the Church. His patient and thorough approach might look like stalling to those who demand instant satisfaction and resolution. But if allowed to work through to its conclusion his approach will result in a strong, lasting foundation for Anglicanism. (What kind of foundation are the hasty constructions of the Fedcons being built on?)

I must ask you: How does a Commcon who does not believe in Windsor and the Convenant maintain any hope at all? Are you placing your entire bet on God’s “pouring out fire from heaven onto the soaked altars of Baal”?

Finally, I don’t think what we are now experiencing is a wistful Tolkienesque leave-taking. Even when the Fellowship of the Ring broke up, its members were still united in their ultimate goals. But if the Fedcons continue to embrace an ecclesiology irreconcilable with any sort of Anglican Communion, as opposed to (what they imagine to be) an Anglican Federation, I fear this parting of friends will be permanent.

Among Anglo-Catholics, OTOH - and perhaps among other Fedcons, as well - I hope the Anglican diaspora will enrich the various communions to which we are exiled while continuing to maintain a strong ex-Anglican network. So far, in my own case, ongoing networking with my Anglo-Catholic friends continues unabated as I move towards Orthodoxy.

[37] Posted by Roland on 08-03-2007 at 05:47 PM • top

Chris Taylor, writes “nothing is lost yet, not even the ABC.” As I pointed out, Bp Duncan (quoting the ABp of Sydney) said that the ABC is lost as an “instrument of unity.” This is almost a tautology. (I think he is circling on the M25.) Neither revisionists nor orthodox, neither fed cons nor com cons, etc, think that the ABC is promoting unity currently. However, nobody has said that he can’t be found or guided off the M25.

[38] Posted by robroy on 08-03-2007 at 05:52 PM • top

RE: “How does a Commcon who does not believe in Windsor and the Convenant maintain any hope at all? Are you placing your entire bet on God’s “pouring out fire from heaven onto the soaked altars of Baal”?

Hi Roland . . . I have always maintained that it is the Primates that will provide the ballast [or influence] necessary for the ABC to take action, if any action occurs. 

I did believe in “Windsor” but unfortunately it was proven to be a mere delaying tactic, in an attempt to get us to the next delaying tactic, which I think is the Covenant process.  Unlike many ComCons, I see the Covenant Process as the fallback for when no consequences whatsoever occurred for the failure of adherence to the “Windsor Process”.  As I have said ad nauseum [at least for me, and surely for others] what makes any of us believe that the “Covenant Process” will be any more adjudicated than was the “Windsor Process”?  The Windsor Process was merely a bunch of empty requests and consequences, neither of which occurred.

Nevertheless, until the Anglican Communion fractures [and I have not noticed Archbishop Akinola’s departure, although it looks as if it will come at Lambeth], I intend to remain involved in this battle.

RE: “Finally, I don’t think what we are now experiencing is a wistful Tolkienesque leave-taking. Even when the Fellowship of the Ring broke up, its members were still united in their ultimate goals. But if the Fedcons continue to embrace an ecclesiology irreconcilable with any sort of Anglican Communion, as opposed to (what they imagine to be) an Anglican Federation, I fear this parting of friends will be permanent.”

I believe that reasserting Anglicans, both inside ECUSA and within the most recent diaspora have the same goal, and that is a reformed, renewed, flourishing Anglicanism.  That is my ultimately goal, and I do not think it possible without the Anglican Communion.  I believe that is the FedCon’s goals as well, and they do think it possible without the Anglican Communion.

However, you and I do agree about something.  I suspect that the ComCons and the FedCons will unfortunately not meet on the battlefield and ultimately fight together.  In this way, we are certainly different from Aragorn and Eomer [as in a number of other ways!]  ; > )

[39] Posted by Sarah on 08-03-2007 at 06:10 PM • top

I suspect that the ComCons and the FedCons will unfortunately not meet on the battlefield and ultimately fight together.

Deeply sad, if true.  If the reasserters lose the battle to preserve the Anglican Communion, then one will never know whether battlefield unity between CommCons and FedCons would have turned the tide. 

But it’s disturbing to know that some CommCons had a snit about FedCons doing prudent contingency planning.

[40] Posted by Truth Unites... and Divides on 08-03-2007 at 06:19 PM • top

<blockquote>But it’s disturbing to know that some CommCons had a snit about FedCons doing prudent contingency planning.<blockquote>
Too often, FedCon’s proceed to implement their contingency plans preemptively, without waiting for the contingcy to arise.

[41] Posted by Roland on 08-03-2007 at 06:54 PM • top

Too often, FedCons proceed to implement their contingency plans preemptively, without waiting for the contingency to arise.

Assertion, not an argument.  Solid evidence requested to support the assertion please.

[42] Posted by Truth Unites... and Divides on 08-03-2007 at 07:06 PM • top

Sarah,

as always fantastic stuff. I just want to take issue with one little thing:

Finally, Dr. Radner does not seem to acknowledge a crucial and publicly stated fact. The Federal conservatives have given up on the Anglican Communion. They do not believe in it anymore. It has failed Anglicanism, in their opinion.

Understand that I have not come to that conclusion yet—but they have. The instruments of communion have failed. 

I don’t think we have given up on the Communion. I think it would e more accurate to say that we are more committed to the Communion than ever before, it’s just that we feel that Lambeth (both the Palace and now the Conference) have betrayed the Communion that we love dearly but will never give up on.

[43] Posted by David Ould on 08-03-2007 at 07:29 PM • top

Comments like the one in quotes immediately below and the reference to the Cathedral of St. Ernie and St. Louie make it clear that most of you have no idea of the depth of Gospel-driven spirituality that those of us you consider to be on the “other side” have.
“Whatever they will be, I don’t know—let your imagination fly, and you will probably be right: sacrificing goats on altars, swearing allegiance to Pan, declaring that they are they are “vegansexual”, or whatever. And you know what? They’ll be saying that they are “classical Anglicans” . . . and we’ll just smile. “

You have never comprehended that the same fire borne of the Holy Spirit that burns hotly in your breasts does the exact same in ours.  Why can you not comprehend that we can share the same faith in our Lord Jesus Christ as Saviour and Redeemer despite the fact that we may disagree on other issues?  Human sexuality is not a core doctrine issue and never has been in the history of the church.  We profess the same creeds.  We kneel before the same altars for the same Eucharistic feasts, yet you find it necessary to denigrate our faith.  It makes me wonder how strong your own faith is that you must tear down the faith of others to build yours up.  It’s almost as if you just can not stand the notion that we can profess the same beliefs in 95% of areas in common with you.  The insecurity is palpable.  (It was previously evidident in the attacks on Elizabeth Kaeton.  Makes me wonder if some are so insecure about their own masculinity that they must attack a woman just to reiinforce what they perceive to be their manhood.  There’s a psychosis there, but I’m not sure how to name it, at least in polite mixed company.)

Folks, we share so much in common.  Why must we denigrate each other’s faith over the few differences we share? 

I’m sure I will endure scathing rhetoric now for just having dared question these areas, but that’s ok.  I am an adult and I can handle it.  I’ve been here before.  If past experience serves as any example, I will witness some of the most nasty and mean remarks possible from others who also profess to follow Jesus as Lord.  But hey, we are told in Scripture that we will have to endure such for the sake of the Gospel.

Bruce Garner
Atlanta and member Executive Council

[44] Posted by Bruce Garner on 08-03-2007 at 07:39 PM • top

Bruce, I am very keen to take you at your word on this:

hy can you not comprehend that we can share the same faith in our Lord Jesus Christ as Saviour and Redeemer despite the fact that we may disagree on other issues?

Why don’t you lay out briefly what you consider are the core doctrines that we all agree on? I’d be interested (as I’m sure you are) to see if we really do believe the same things.

If you’re game, just list out what you think are the core doctrines and I’ll tell you what I believe about them and we’ll see if it’s the same as what you believe.

[45] Posted by David Ould on 08-03-2007 at 07:45 PM • top

Thanks Spencer for totally understanding that there needs to be true unity between Communion Conservatives and Federal Conservatives in order to pressure the ABC into preserving the Communion by retaining the GS primates, and to stop the heresy and apostasy from being a malignant cancer throughout the entire Anglican Communion.

I have been reflecting on the first talk given by Greg Venables at the Network meeting in light of Sarah’s Comcon and Fedcon catagories.
[url=http://www.anglicantv.org/blog/index.cfm/2007/8/2/ACN-Council-Meeting-2007-PB-Venables-Bible-Study]http://www.anglicantv.org/blog/index.cfm/2007/8/2/ACN-Council-Meeting-2007-PB-Venables-Bible-Study [/url]
To draw the line…Venables addresses the fact that we, like Abraham, may need to give up our Ishmael-like human solution (could this be the Fedcon’s solution) and our Isaac-like Hopes and Dreams (could this be the Comcon hope and Dream) in order that we might find our faith in Jesus Christ alone.

[46] Posted by thecalvinist on 08-03-2007 at 07:46 PM • top

Bless you, Sarah, in your pain and prayer.  I just want to address one thing you said early on:

...One—a positive principle—is that mergers or business partnerships or marriages or any other relationship-intensifier should take place ideally amongst healthy, functional, strong individuals…

You go on to elaborate why, or at least that, none of the Common Cause-ers meet those criteria. 

I want to say first off that we run into trouble when we equate business partnerships and mergers with marriages.  Metaphor is fine, but we dare not push it too far.  That having been said, I have done enough pre-marital and marriage counseling to know that two people—any two people—are mutually incompatable.  But marriage is reliant upon the working of God in the lives of two people. 

And here we reach the meat of my point:  If two people were to wait until they were fully “healthy, functional, strong”, no one would ever marry.  Quite frequently, God puts two moderately (and perhaps even marginally in some cases) healthy, functional people together in order to make them stronger, healthier in light of each other’s “less-than-health/strength/functionality”.  Or perhaps you are speaking of pathology, in which case I think that is a bit hard on the CC partners?

Just some musings from an alleged FedCon who is glad to have the catholic authority of the extant Anglican Communion for the sake of accountability and apostolicity.  I really couldn’t do “congregational”.  Thanks for your thoughtful analysis.

[47] Posted by West Coast Cleric on 08-03-2007 at 07:53 PM • top

Bruce,

So you now question our faith, sweet.  I’ve seen some of your posts in other places and you give as good as you get.  Again, like your compadres, you bring this back to the one issue as if there are no others.  It is about authority and whether it lies in a vote of GC or in Holy Scripture.  Who determines the core principles, The prophetic revelation of Christ given through his apostles as recorded in scripture, or the latest group of TEC political junkies that have the time make a career of going to diocesan and general conventions?  When the word says that someone will not enter the gates of heaven if they practice a certain lifestyle.  It is the job of the church to pass on that warning, like watchmen who see the enemy at the gates.  Not to pass on the warning is to cease to be a watchman.

[48] Posted by BillK on 08-03-2007 at 07:54 PM • top

“Why don’t you lay out briefly what you consider are the core doctrines that we all agree on?”

I hope Bruce Garner doesn’t mind if I jump in…

How about we take it slow at first?

“I believe in God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth;
And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord;
    who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
    born of the Virgin Mary,
    suffered under Pontius Pilate,
    was crucified, dead and buried.
    He descended into hell.
    The third day he rose again from the dead.
    He ascended into heaven,
    and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father almighty.
    From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost,
    the holy catholic Church
    the communion of saints,
    the forgiveness of sins,
    the resurrection of the body,
    and the life everlasting. Amen.”

I would think that’s about as “core” as you can get.

[49] Posted by BillyD on 08-03-2007 at 08:00 PM • top

Bruce Garner, you say progressives and reasserters share the same gospel.  The past four years of written evidence on this site and on many others—list after list after list after list of heresy and denial of the gospel by progressive Episcopalians—demonstrates with crystal clarity that this is not the case.

But you are welcome to form your lips and tongue into the syllables and vowels of “Gospel-driven” and claim them for yourself all you like—it’s really not important to me what you state about the progressive worldview and its foundational truths.

We do not have enough in common regarding foundational truths for me to say more.

Hope you are having a great summer—it’s hot here!

Signed,

The Blond Buddhist, who has never really agreed with the Four Noble Truths at all

; > )

[50] Posted by Sarah on 08-03-2007 at 08:02 PM • top

thanks Billy, but I wanted to see what Bruce thought was core.

[51] Posted by David Ould on 08-03-2007 at 08:03 PM • top

RE: “Or perhaps you are speaking of pathology, in which case I think that is a bit hard on the CC partners?”

Hey—I said the same thing about the ECUSAn reasserters too!
; > )

[52] Posted by Sarah on 08-03-2007 at 08:08 PM • top

There is very good evidence that our presiding bishop does not even believe the apostles creed.  She states that our last 3 PBs have essentially held the same beliefs (although they were more ambiguous when asked about them).  The reality is that for every creek there is an explanation (a code) made so that people (bishops, priets, GC delegates, standing committe members, PBs) can say it meaning something other than the plain phrases like “resurrection,” “sins” or “hell.” Those who do with the creed as well as their ordination vows have perpetrated a fraud on many lay people for a long time.  If it wasn’t for the internet - the HOB/D listserve for example - the fraud would probably still be working.

[53] Posted by BillK on 08-03-2007 at 08:11 PM • top

Yes, Billy, the words are “core” but as you know many revisionist Episcopalians do not agree with the traditional content of the words or the grammatical/literal sense of them. Instead, many…especially those who count themselves followers of Borg and Spong…have something like this going on in their heads:

“I believe in God(ess), the Father/Mother/Creator/Birther, ground of being, maker of “heaven” and earth;
And in Jesus Christ his/her/its only Son/Daughter/Redeemer/Child our Lord/Lover;
who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
born of the “Virgin” Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead and buried.
He/she/it descended into “hell”.
The third day he/she/it “rose again” from the dead like spring flowers in the hearts of the disciples.
He/she/it “ascended” into “heaven”,
and sitteth on the right hand of God(ess) the Father/Mother/Creator/Birther almighty.
From thence he/she/it shall come/always be present to judge/affirm the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost/Sanctifier/Comforter,
the “holy” catholic Church
the communion of “saints”,
the forgiveness of “sins”,
the “resurrection” of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.”

[54] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 08-03-2007 at 08:15 PM • top

Sarah,thank you for such an excellent,enlightening article.
You are truly a gift to Stand Firm.
Grace and Peace to you on the path God has for you.

[55] Posted by paddy c on 08-03-2007 at 08:18 PM • top

Bruce Garner said:

You have never comprehended that the same fire borne of the Holy Spirit that burns hotly in your breasts does the exact same in ours.  Why can you not comprehend that we can share the same faith in our Lord Jesus Christ as Saviour and Redeemer despite the fact that we may disagree on other issues?

Because the admittedly ancillary issues in the realm of sexual ethics demonstrate that a more fundamental compromise has been made elsewhere, Bruce. The language you deploy here—“share the same faith in our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ”—has been qualified and adumbrated at such a fundamental level that I know longer know what you mean by this, or trust that we mean the same things when we say these words. The chain of qualification and compromise is all too clear and it starts in Germany, runs through Newark and lands here in this little comment section. From Schleiermacher to Bultmann to Tillich to Spong, there has been a basic erosion of Christian doctrine and the language used to convey that doctrine.

I’m in no position to judge your heart, Bruce, just your words (which have been as caustic and hurtful at times as you claim ours are.) And here and on the HOB/D list you consistently side with those, like Louie and Spong, who have so altered the basics of the faith that I cannot recognize it as such. You have your experience, and I can’t judge that, only God can. But words and ideas are another thing altogether, and the ones you espouse I cannot recognize as Christian.

[56] Posted by Dave on 08-03-2007 at 08:22 PM • top

I thought, that’s odd. And then I laughed and laughed. Exactly!

Signed,
The Blond Buddhist, who has never really agreed with the Four Noble Truths at all
; > )
Posted by Sarah Hey

[57] Posted by Deja Vu on 08-03-2007 at 08:23 PM • top

Someone very kindly responded for me and correctly as well:  The words of the Nicene (and Apostles) Creed are the core doctrine as far as I am concerned.  I also find the Summary of the Law as recited by Jesus as very helpful as well.  The charge to us near the end of the 25th Chapter of Matthew is also applicable in that it provides a fairly concrete set of directions from Jesus Himself as to what is important and what we are to do for each other.

And you will not find me questioning anyone’s faith.  I did not say that.  I did note that we share far more in common than we have in difference. 

No I am not a Calvinist.  I don’t find the need to go about looking for ways to be beaten down by faith…even though some may find that helpful, I do not.  I take great joy in worship of the Risen Christ and try to let that light so shine in my life. 

My main issue with so much of what I read is the inconsistency in citing of Scripture.  No one on this list or any other takes all of Scripture literally and it’s far from the truth to claim otherwise.  The proscriptions in the Hebrew Scriptures are not followed in their entirety by anyone, except for perhaps those akin to Hasidic Jews.  Nor are all of St. Paul’s admonitions followed. 

I continue to maintain that the purpose of most of what we read in Scripture is an attempt to provide us with examples about how we relate to each other and to he God of our creation.  We are not to exploit or abuse each other.  We are to look for right relationships or righteousness in our relationships with each other and our Creator.  It is in failing to look for those right relationships that we really get into sinfulness. 

The Daily Office Readings for a number of weeks have included The Acts of the Apostles as the selection from the New Testament.  It’s interesting to follow the work of both Peter and Paul and their different interpretations of what should be.  They were not always in accord with each other and they were certainly far closer to the source than any of us.  Part of what sticks in my mind is Peter’s dream sequence and the events shortly after.  God makes it clear to Peter that Peter should not call profane what God has created, whether it’s a critter of some sort or another human being.  There is no place for judgment given there.

It’s also very clear that Paul includes women in active ministerial roles as well. He’s not just having them foot the bills.  He discusses very often the roles of leadership among women.  (He also seems to take a bit of delight in noting their high standing in the communities where they are.  That’s a bit amusing….seems like a bit of bragging as well!).

So I maintain my position that we have more in common than in difference.  But we must be willing to be at table with each other for the Holy Spirit to have any chance to work among us.  I am willing to be at table with any on this list and will guarantee a place for you at that table regardless of our lack of agreement on some issues.  Unfortunately, I rarely see that reciprocated.

And for what it’s worth, my goal is to be around 50 years from now (even though I will be 108!) and to see the Episcopal Church alive and well and doing God’s work through the embodiment of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Bruce Garner
Exec Council

[58] Posted by Bruce Garner on 08-03-2007 at 08:24 PM • top

Well, Fr. Kennedy, I thought it was a good place to start. After all, Mr. Ould said

“If you’re game, just list out what you think are the core doctrines and I’ll tell you what I believe about them and we’ll see if it’s the same as what you believe.”

I was hoping to see, starting with this basic list of Christian teaching, what Mr. Garner and Mr. Ould could agree on.

And yes, I suspect that some Episcopalians mentally edit the Creeds to come up something like the concoction. I’m not sure if I would characterize that particular group as “many” or not; I’m pretty sure it’s a fringe phenomenon.

[59] Posted by BillyD on 08-03-2007 at 08:25 PM • top

thanks Bruce,
can I ask, then, what you understand by the phrase “I believe in God the Father”?
Do you believe, for instance, that the Father has a true filial relationship with the Son, not just as a metaphor for our understanding but in ontological reality, so that the Son is the unique mediator of all that the Father does, to the exclusion of all others?
On what basis do you believe it?

[60] Posted by David Ould on 08-03-2007 at 08:28 PM • top

OK, this is my last post on this thread today, and it’s a quibble:

Mr. Garner wrote

“Nor are all of St. Paul’s admonitions followed. “

I don’t know if that’s true; the Amish seem to come pretty close, from my outsider perspective.

[61] Posted by BillyD on 08-03-2007 at 08:31 PM • top

Why can you not comprehend that we can share the same faith in our Lord Jesus Christ as Saviour and Redeemer

Because that is not what the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church teaches.

[62] Posted by Chazaq on 08-03-2007 at 08:40 PM • top

Sarah, I’ll admit that I didn’t read every word (after 5 nights of VBS I’m not sure I have enough mental energy to do so), but I appreciated all that I read.  I think you are right on many points, including:

“When I speak with Communion conservatives about their plans, should the Communion fracture [as indeed appears likely] they do not speak about “sitting in the ruins of the Communion” which is the common caricature of them. They speak of surrendering the idea of Anglicanism within the US, and moving on to a functional church of another type altogether. Some mention Rome, some Geneva, some Augsburg. Few of them mention CANA.”

I believe as you do that many CCs as you call them will come to believe that Anglicanism has failed and move on.

[63] Posted by TonyinCNY on 08-03-2007 at 08:41 PM • top

Makes me wonder if some are so insecure about their own masculinity that they must attack a woman just to reiinforce what they perceive to be their manhood.

Enough of this, Bruce. Have you no other ideas about orthodox, heterosexual traditionalists than this silly little caricature? You trot these little platitudes out on the HOB/D list with regularity…and then you accuse us of limiting our imagination with regards to our opponents. It’s like your stuck in some 1950’s era Psych 101 class, rife with cigar metaphors and hackneyed Freudian bromides.

Yes, Bruce we all drive Camaros and listen to Bon Jovi. We whoop out loud while listening to Rush Limbaugh, and send our little women off to fetch beers whilst scratching our bellies and groping for the remote. We secretly hope to take over the US Government and send the gays to concentration camps.

Whatever makes you secure in your stereotypes…

[64] Posted by Dave on 08-03-2007 at 08:45 PM • top

I think Tony and Sarah are right about people moving on from the AC and its children - only I expect that in addition to ComCons, a number of FedCons, Moderates, Liberals will get fed up and leave for their local Bible or PCA Church, PCUSA Church, or Metropolitan Church respectively.

[65] Posted by BillK on 08-03-2007 at 08:49 PM • top

Bruce:  I do have to ask you about the “attacks” on the Rev. Kaeton.  The Rev. Kaeton publicly announced on her web site she was concerned that a certain female priest married to another male priest, with a certain named web site, might commit murder upon her children, and that CPS and other concerned professionals might have to intervene.  The Rev. Kaeton was reported to have stated similar things in private correspondence to the above mentioned priests.  I believe that only reason that CPS has not shown up at the “at risk” home is the coverage received here and at other sites.  I know, based on HOB/D Listserve and other blog readings, that the Rev. Kaeton has been made out to be a victim of specious lies and attacks.  To be serious here, which family has been the victim in this?

[66] Posted by In Texas on 08-03-2007 at 08:51 PM • top

Bruce Says,“And you will not find me questioning anyone’s faith.”

and yet first said

“It makes me wonder how strong your own faith is that you must tear down the faith of others to build yours up. ”

[67] Posted by BillK on 08-03-2007 at 09:00 PM • top

Why must we denigrate each other’s faith?

Revisionists must denigrate traditional biblical orthodox Christianity in order to prevent the broad uncommitted moderates from teaching the received apostolic faith to their children.

[68] Posted by Chazaq on 08-03-2007 at 09:00 PM • top

I am willing to be at table with any on this list and will guarantee a place for you at that table regardless of our lack of agreement on some issues.  Unfortunately, I rarely see that reciprocated.

Dear Bruce,
The Executive Council’s guarantee of a place at the table for the people on this list rings a bit hollow to me—and let me tell you why.

I see the members of the Executive Council pursuing lawsuit after lawsuit against fellow “brothers and sisters in Christ” with no attempt to sit at “the table” and mediate or even arbitrate these temporal property matters? Why not rather be wronged, than attack, through the civil court system, good Christian people with whom you express a desire to be reconciled? Why not lose stuff that one day you might win hearts.

Your invitation to table fellowship is also heard against the backdrop of the Executive Council’s resounding rejection of the Anglican Communion’s pastoral provision for our care—a provision which would have guaranteed for the people on this list a place at the table with you.

Now perhaps you stood against these things in the Executive Council meetings. I am impressed at your willingness to engage in this context. But I sincerely hope that you could see why it is hard to trust the promises of “a place at the table.”

Actions sometimes speak louder than words.
Charlie Holt+
A happy Calvinist with a hope and an future in Jesus Christ alone and a desire for a renewed Anglican Communion. :>)

[69] Posted by thecalvinist on 08-03-2007 at 09:04 PM • top

RE: “. . . and to see the Episcopal Church alive and well and doing God’s work through the embodiment of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.”

None of which means anything at all in relationship to reasserters’ use of the same words.

“Church,” “alive,” “well,” “doing God’s work,” “gospel,” “Jesus Christ” . . . all essentially meaningless in terms of any sort of congruence between progressive and traditional Episcopal usage or definition.

Two gospels, one church—it’s probably why Bruce does not recognize much of the gospel here, any more than we do at progressive Episcopal web sites.

RE: Elizabeth Kaeton and others . . .

We will continue noting and further publicizing EK’s and other progressive’s theology and attacks—very pleased that we have done that consistently over the years with many progressives and their truly bizarre ideas and theology, and plan to continue.

Thanks to the power of the Internet, all reasserting Episcopalians with access may learn about what was kept so well hidden for so many years.  It’s a true gift from God.

[70] Posted by Sarah on 08-03-2007 at 09:04 PM • top

Well done Sarah.
However, it seems to me that ComCon’s are caught in a fundamental inconsistency. Was the Anglican tradition launched by people operating on ComCons or Fedcons principles or some other perspective?  The most charitable explanation for the existence of the Anglican tradition is that its founders believed the Roman Church had become corrupt and that the world needed a new church so that the Gospel could be proclaimed.  Could the founding of the Anglican tradition be justified on CommCon principles?  I think not.  Aren’t the fedcons following in the steps of the reformers?  TEC has become corrupt the gospel is in peril and we need a new church to proclaim the Gospel  
The Fedcons seem to be more consistent.  Actually I don’t think fedcon actually captures what they are about.  I think it more accurate to say that they are people who believe in a doctrinal heavy view of truth who will start a new church when the existing one becomes sufficiently doctrinally corrupted. 
Do you see the irony in people like Radner, Turner and you saying stay and fight to the bitter end when the whole Anglican tradition exists because folks did not stay and fight to the bitter end?

[71] Posted by morningsideanglican on 08-03-2007 at 09:12 PM • top

What kind of foundation are the hasty constructions of the Fedcons being built on?

Jesus.
Scripture.
Apostolic faith.
God.

Sorry these are not as solid as the Canterbury Communion, but we are trying to do the best we can with what we’ve got.

[72] Posted by Chazaq on 08-03-2007 at 09:20 PM • top

Mr Garner,
I don’t want to sidetrack Sarah’s thread but I would also ask that if we have more in common than we have differences then why is it that you and TEC(since you prominently affirm your being on TEC’s Executive Board)choose to dilute or ignore or reject the plain meaning of Scripture which has by the way been affirmed as core belief since Apostolic days(and with it,its God given authority in issues of Christian belief and practice) when that doesn’t affirm your own preferences or ends?
You know small things,like not suing fellow Christians(1 Cor 6:1-8)or the disinclusion by the Apostle (speaking as one with Christ’s authority no less) of people who practice the behaviors described in 1 Cor.6:9-10 or 1 Tim.1:9-10’s list of mindsets and behaviors described as ‘contrary to sound or healthy doctrine’.
Ironic…..

[73] Posted by paddy c on 08-03-2007 at 10:08 PM • top

I, too, take exception to the get your house in order before you get married. I was young, immature, and naive when I married my saint for a wife. I would ask what criteria does Sarah require before getting hitched. Are those criteria going to come in to place before September 30th? (Answer: no, whatever Sarah’s criteria may be.) There are many orthodox Anglicans clamoring for lifeboats in mid October. If it ain’t Common Cause, it will be Rome, the East, alternative protestant or nothing at all.

I do not share the snobbery of the ACI in regards to the continuing churches which seems to discuss these in dismissive tones. For example, if the saintly Archbishop Cox, has blessed a church or priest and they pray from a prayerbook derived from the 1662, they are Anglican in my book. My wife (M.Theo, M.Div) always tells me that Anglicans are defined by the way they pray. In her discussion of where she would fly, it seems that Sarah unfortunately shares this same snobbery.

[74] Posted by robroy on 08-03-2007 at 10:26 PM • top

I am willing to be at table with any on this list and will guarantee a place for you at that table

Virginia’s failed bishop Peter James Lee does not share your enthusiasm, as evidenced by the 21 priests he removed from ordained ministry this week.  According to Lee, you are not supposed to be at their table.

[75] Posted by Chazaq on 08-03-2007 at 10:30 PM • top

(Responding to the Bruce Garner off-topic sub-thread)
With respect to the question of “core” doctrine, how does TEC/815 measure up with regards to the 39 Articles?  After all, Fr. Matt Kennedy is doing a series on the 39 articles and they are a major part of the doctrinal identity of the Anglican Communion.

[76] Posted by Truth Unites... and Divides on 08-03-2007 at 10:33 PM • top

With respect to the question of “core” doctrine, how does TEC/815 measure up with regards to the 39 Articles? 

Come now, don’t worry about those. They’re “historical documents”.

I have a few of those at home. You know, my marriage certificate, the deeds to my house…. wink

[77] Posted by David Ould on 08-03-2007 at 10:42 PM • top

Thank you for writing this.  It is characteristically balanced and honest. 

A couple of questions and comments:

First, do you really think that the federal conservatives, such as Duncan and Orombi, have given up   all hope in the Anglican Communion?  I believe almost every fedcom continues to harbor a hope, however, weak, that Rowan Williams will wake up to the prospect of losing a majority of those who identify themselves as “Anglican,” including most of those in Commonwealth nations.  Most fedcoms do seem to believe, however, that the internal battle is over if Rowan Williams doesn’t reverse course on the invitations.  The steps and statements we have seen by the fedcom leaders, deemed precipitous to the ACI, are what I tell my children is “fair warning” of the consequences of a particular action—in this case Rowan Williams refusing to use his office to enforce Dar by not inviting the disobedient TEC Bishops.  I don’t believe Williams will change course, but in the back of my mind I still dream of a Dar like surprise in the last quarter of this year.  I guess we can hope.

Second, I am a little confused by these two statements:

“When I speak with Communion conservatives about their plans, should the Communion fracture [as indeed appears likely]….”

and

“And some of us suspect that NONE of the Global South primates have any intentions of announcing their departure from the Anglican Communion as some of them seem to be asking of traditional Episcopalians.”]….”

Since you don’t expect the GS primates to send a Radneresque resignation letter, by “fracturing” do you thus mean a situation where the largest Provinces stay in the Anglican Communion in name but effectively cease participating in its Instruments of Unity, such as Lambeth?  In prior posts, you seem to express a hope that the boycotting Primates will formally sever their ties if they are not attending Lambeth. Could you elaborate on this further?

Finally,

“Should that very sad ending [for me] occur, it will be many years before I am active again in a church, beyond attendance and mild involvement.”

I don’t know what you mean by “mild” involvement, but I find it hard to believe you will not be a fully committed member of your local congregation.  I had withdrawn from active church leadership several years back because I saw where things were headed and didn’t feel it was right to sit on a Vestry or hold a Diocisian office if I could not remain loyal to the church and its Diocesan organizational structures.  But after I left the Episcopal Church I discovered, once again, what a wonderful thing to be in a local church body is unified in its understanding of the Truth and not in theological disagreement with its denomination.  I pray that you will find that in whatever choice you make, and share your incredible talents with those who worship with you.

[78] Posted by Going Home on 08-03-2007 at 11:00 PM • top

I am not surprised to see that in a number of the last few comments here, discussing core doctrines, we have seen how true Sarah’s words are up above, where she writes, “In fact, the more one focuses on doctrine as a means of unity, the more one recognizes that doctrine is actually an instrument of division—and not necessarily in a “bad sense” but often in a clarifying sense. Once someone says “I think that Christ died for everybody that is ever to live”, another person always says “I don’t” . . . and the division promptly begins.” It seems we have barely begun to realize the richness of her reflections. I am also struck by her sense that we will need to go deeper, to something more central (I want to say with the desert fathers that we need to allow our heads/doctrines to descend to our hearts, the core of all of our doctrines). What do we find there? Perhaps, as Staretz Silouan has it, we find ourselves in hell! (God, it feels that way right now sometimes, doesn’t it?) But despair not, the old monk would say, for if it is hell we find, it is hell in the company of Christ—and him crucified. I hear the trauma of the cross in Sarah’s words, where we all shall meet and do meet at each eucharistic gathering.
Okay, that sounds like a lot of preacherly niceties, I admit, and a whole lotta Good Friday!  Where do we see this union of “reasserter” and “reappraiser”, fedcon and commcon today in the midst of all the division and strife, where is Easter? I would offer one witness—recently, in a story that we are mostly all familiar with, a priest of our church was being tried and threatened with deposition and worse for having chosen to stand side by side with the survivors of the hell of sexual abuse, the horrific hell of clergy sexual abuse. He listened to their stories, he believed them and he fought for their witness to be heard by a church that all too often looks the other way at clergy sexual misconduct.  At his trial, at the foot of the cross I would say, were gathered reasserters and reappraisers alike, to witness a suffering, faithful love on trial (Christ in the dock, ‘our Rowan’ will put it). Did we not all rejoice that day as he was acquitted,  by the grace of God, and the kingdom of God was revealed, if only for a moment, to be present among us, in the face of an innocent, holy child of hope? I pray that it is so, and will be so for all of us that this love of Christ, ‘harder than hell’  (Sg.of Sol. 8:6) will continue to draw us more deeply into the heart of God’s irresistable, gentle, liberating embrace. With prayers especially for the people of St. Paul’s Episcopal Church, Owego, New York—
Your brother in Christ,
Clark+

[79] Posted by clark west on 08-03-2007 at 11:04 PM • top

I don’t think we [FedCons] have given up on the Communion. I think it would be more accurate to say that we are more committed to the Communion than ever before, it’s just that we feel that Lambeth (both the Palace and now the Conference) have betrayed the Communion that we love dearly but will never give up on.

Thanks David Ould for politely challenging an assertion that needed to be politely challenged.  I saw the same statements, but bypassed on challenging the sweeping assertion.

[80] Posted by Truth Unites... and Divides on 08-03-2007 at 11:10 PM • top

I saw the same statements, but bypassed on challenging the sweeping assertion.

I think calling it a “sweeping assertion” is a bit of an overstatement. The thing to remember is that the Communion Conservatives are far more wedded to the idea of church being defined by it’s structures (for want of a better word). So, in their eyes, rejection of Lambeth is rejection of the Communion.

We see it differently: the Catholic Church is defined by it’s adherence to the truth, out of which certain structures may or may not arise.

[81] Posted by David Ould on 08-03-2007 at 11:15 PM • top

Maybe, the boycotting of a Lambeth by a majority of the bishops will let the leaders of the COE realize that these issues are serious enough to lead to a change in the structure of the AC allowing discipline.  I certainly do not agree that if a bishop misses Lambeth they have cut themselves off from the AC.  That threat from the ABY doesn’t hold water.  However, the fact that the threat was made shows that the boycott will have some significance to the rest of the AC.  Maybe the ABC will change.  Maybe the next ABC will have a little more sense and make the changes that will bring the boycotters back.  In the mean time, something has to be done to provide a safe harbor for conservatives to practice their faith and teach it to their children without being mocked by their own bishop or clergy.  Leaving the TEC is the ONLY option that the inclusive leaders of the TEC have left to us.  Stephen Noll had me at “The time has come…”

[82] Posted by BillK on 08-03-2007 at 11:17 PM • top

“In fact, the more one focuses on doctrine as a means of unity, the more one recognizes that doctrine is actually an instrument of division—and not necessarily in a “bad sense” but often in a clarifying sense. Once someone says “I think that Christ died for everybody that is ever to live”, another person always says “I don’t” . . . and the division promptly begins.”

I fully agree.  Simply look at my commenter name.  But seriously, I chose this commenter name because of the person of Jesus Christ.  If anyone was to claim that doctrine divides, I simply and easily respond that Jesus Christ divides too!  Nuancing in a different direction beyond the correspondence theory of truth, I would contend that “truth” is the self-expression of the triune God.  Doctrinal truths unite and divide.  The person and truth of Jesus Christ unites and divides.  This is the reality.  Get over it.

[83] Posted by Truth Unites... and Divides on 08-03-2007 at 11:20 PM • top

“Human sexuality is not a core doctrine issue and never has been in the history of the church.  We profess the same creeds”.

The latter statement is just a convenient excuse for “anything goes”.  Heterosexual polygamy is also not “core doctrine” of the church, so does that mean I can go ahead and engage in it? 

No, there’s plenty of TEC-ers who don’t “profess the same creeds”, like a certain “priest”/Muslim who ~“only says the creed out of respect for her forebears”, or something like that; or VGR, who admitted in the London Times recently that he leaves out the parts of the Nicene Creed that he doesn’t believe.

I agree with the above; if Executive Council cares “about everybody at the table”, then they can get to the table and start putting together their end of the Pastoral Scheme. 

Blessings,

Orthoducky who can’t read

PS—I’ll tune in tomorrow when I’ve got more time to check out Sarah’s gorgeous article—maybe my spouse can read it to me.

grin

[84] Posted by Orthoducky on 08-03-2007 at 11:25 PM • top

I’m sorry; at first I meant to say, “the former statement”....

Duh…time for bed…

[85] Posted by Orthoducky on 08-03-2007 at 11:28 PM • top

I think calling it a “sweeping assertion” is a bit of an overstatement.

Okay.  It’s not worth quibbling over.  But when I read:

“Finally, Dr. Radner does not seem to acknowledge a crucial and publicly stated fact. The Federal conservatives have given up on the Anglican Communion. They do not believe in it anymore. It has failed Anglicanism, in their opinion.

Understand that I have not come to that conclusion yet—but they have. The instruments of communion have failed.”

It looks fairly sweeping and encompassing to me.

[86] Posted by Truth Unites... and Divides on 08-03-2007 at 11:33 PM • top

Matt,
Don’t forget Creator, Sustainer and Redeemer.  Those are the words that my previous (ESUCA) priest always used.  For 13 years I wanted to shout out “for heavens sake it is Father, Son and Holy Spirit/Ghost”.  I don’t think he ever used Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
And there I pew sat and listened and never said anything.

[87] Posted by carol on 08-04-2007 at 12:12 AM • top

Truth,

well, perhaps. Sarah and I are probably the furthest apart theologically in terms of the team here. But she’s staff (we both get paid in chicken dinners, or so we’re told - still waiting, Greg… ) and so I rally to her cause like a loyal puppy.

or something.

[88] Posted by David Ould on 08-04-2007 at 12:21 AM • top

Mr. Garner - though I am a ‘reasserter’, I am thankful you have ventured into these waters.  Thank you for believing in the power of the Gospel.  Also know that I abhor the malice with which many ‘reappraisers’ are treated on ‘reasserter’ blogs - just as I abhor the malice which is just as evident when reasserters visit reappraiser blogs.  (As an aside, the failure of the reappraisers to convincingly & unequivocally renounce Rev. Keaton’s post and her terribly offensive - and threatening - apology are felt by reappraisers to speak volumes.  I bring this up only because you reference it above.)

As I see it, Sarah’s article above discusses how those who agree on an essential, but disagree on important particulars may interact, part ways if necessary, wish for each other’s success.  The problem for many reasserters in TEC (and for those who have recently left) is those things which we would call ‘essentials’ have been called ‘unimportant particulars’ by reappraisers.  To say Christ is ‘a way’, rather than ‘the way’ to the Father violates an essential.  The foundational and instructional view of the Scriptures - as written, rather than as reinterpreted in light of current societal norms - is an essential.  So while we may attend the same ceremonies, voice the same phrases, even share common ecclesial ancestors, we reasserters don’t see that we share the same faith - since the essentials are gone.

The reasons the English Church split from Rome are things which we reasserters hold dear - the primacy of Scripture, the call to conform to the Church Jesus instituted and the apostles formed.  That is why so many of us reference the 39 Articles - which TEC has formally chosen to regard as an important historical document, but not important in the on-going work of the Church.  Are they constraining?  Yes!  Are they stuffy?  Yes!  Would life be easier without them?  Yes!  But we hold them as articulating truths of the Faith and the Church.  By contrast, reappraisers are not interested in the same aspects of the English Reformation - you embrace the lack of a pontifical authority, the two sacraments, the Bible in a common tongue; the rest doesn’t really seem to resonate for you.

As to the commitment to a ‘place at the table’, I suppose I believe you think you are doing that.  And while GC 2003 was problematic for me - not because of sexuality, but because of the obvious denial of Scriptural authority (see defeated resolutions about same) and the ‘in-your-face’ rejection of the requests of the Primates - it was GC 2006 which was a horrible and telling slap in the face:  A clear message was sent to reasserters from reappraisers that “We have no need of you.”  The lawsuits, depositions, out-of-hand rejection of Primatial Vicar and inconsistent application of procedures for conservatives as opposed to liberals have all simply confirmed what was made clear at GC 2006.

Are we quitters, those who can’t have our way so we’re going to take our ball and go home?  We have spent 40 years trying to work from within - and seen our convictions increasingly marginalized, pejoratively dismissed, and left behind.  The radicalization of TEC is picking up speed, rather than decreasing.  In the face of our increasingly vocal cries over these years, this can only be seen as NO place at the table, NO desire to ‘live our common life together’, NO via media.  Were the positions reversed, you would not be able to see it otherwise.

So - what to say?  Thank you for stating your beliefs.  Thank you for feeling we are important enough to post your opinions here.  You are giving your services to the church I have loved and grieve regularly.  But please know it is not the Church I was raised in and until there can be a real place at a real table, until our talk of the few essentials isn’t dismissed and laughed at, until we can not only talk of love, but live in love and charity with our neighbor (such as Bp Cox) I see no place in your church for those grieving, but resolute Christians with whom I share the Feast.

In Christ,

montanan

[89] Posted by montanan on 08-04-2007 at 12:31 AM • top

Mr. Garner,

You asked in your post above, about our core beliefs and what forms them.  I can only answer for my self and at the risk of further diverting this thread; I will outline some of it here. 

As a starting point I believe that all of documents we have need to be taken as a whole, “snip-quoting” any of them defeats the reading of any of them. 

I accept the guidance of the Articles as the foundation of the faith, not as “historical documents” that “should be dropped, at the next revision of the BCP.” 

I accept the fact of the Triune God expressed in the creeds, all of them without reservation, that these represent the true core points of Christian belief. 

I equally accept the Old and New Testament and try to understand the unified whole; the troubling parts and the easy, together. 

I do believe in my free will and that I accept the responsibility for my actions and their consequences.

I have a duty to act on and witness my understanding of the faith.

I think as I contemplate this, that it is a good short answer to the question posed.  I could very willing expand on any of these points, as simply to list them is to merely state them and not explain or discuss them.  I could also continue to build this list.  Neither would be fair to the either the author of the original post or the rules of this list, as these would be true diversions, from the question posed in the original article by Ms. Hay.

[90] Posted by Stu Howe on 08-04-2007 at 12:41 AM • top

“if the Communion should “FRACTURE”... Would love to hear the definitiions of that word, “fracture” especially Sarah’s.

Would expelling ECUSA (not likely imo), folks boycotting Lambeth? (how many would that take?), the ABC resigning?, CoE splintering?.
Is the some other criteria?.

If the Anglican Communion is a “body” (as has been stated many places) one cannot “fracture” a body, only parts of it. The body with enough fractures will die.

I think you can see what I’m asking.  (hopefully)
Grannie Gloria

[91] Posted by Grandmother on 08-04-2007 at 06:12 AM • top

Hi friends,

Thank you for the kind words and the encouraging comments and the further analysis.  Fascinating thread to read and enjoy.

One minor note—the Bruce Garner sub-thread is off-topic, though—so please don’t respond further on that.  This happens all the time at SF—an article is produced, and a progressive steps in and makes the claim that we all believe the same basic core doctrine, only if the person hangs around enough, we are then led down the primrose path into discovering that none of us actually mean the same things when we say the same words.  There are plenty of other threads where this has been done—and I’m certain that there will be some thread or other down the road where one of us is castigating a specific example of progressive theology, and then Bruce Garner can step in and announce that we all believe the same things.  That would be an example of a place on this blog where we can—once again—have an exchange between progressives and traditionalists.

On to answer some of the remarks.

Morningside, when you say “seems to me that ComCon’s are caught in a fundamental inconsistency. Was the Anglican tradition launched by people operating on ComCons or Fedcons principles or some other perspective” I hope that you will note that I did not make the argument at all that ComCons were theologically correct in their insistence on working within the Anglican Communion for reform.  I merely made the assertion that ComCons believe it to be the most workable way.

In this way, I avoided all the debates about catholicity, which church, Protestantism, etc, etc.  For instance, I’m a clear Protestant.  I’m thrilled we had the reformation, although I am certainly sorry that it was so necessary.  I just happen to believe very firmly that “there needs to be a “center that holds” other than doctrine for Anglicanism to survive as a thriving, growing, orthodox, global non-congregational, bishop-led communion. Without such a center, I do not believe that Anglicanism will thrive or grow in the US, where it is already so weakened.”

ComCons are made up of both people who believe that the reformation was not a good thing, and people who do.  What seems to be common, though, in our viewpoint, is that we simply do not believe that the attempt to split off and establish something outside of the communion will be successful.  We think that we have recent history as an example—and then we think that Anglicanism itself is really not able by its nature to thrive without a center.

I understand that FedCons don’t believe that at all.  I’m just attempting to state clearly what we believe so that we can all understand why tactical and strategic decisions are being made as they are.

*******************

For Rob-Roy:

When you say “I, too, take exception to the get your house in order before you get married. I was young, immature, and naive when I married my saint for a wife. I would ask what criteria does Sarah require before getting hitched” I think I need to make something clear. 

When I said “get your house in order” I really mean that the house is falling down around the ears.  So in short, I think that BOTH sides of the Common Cause alliance are pathologically sick, weak, dysfunctional, and crazy [please note that I am included in that on the ECUSA side].

Again—I understand that the FedCons do not believe this to be the case.  But the ComCons I’m talking to, do indeed.  This isn’t a matter of sweeping up a few cobwebs out of the corner.  This is a matter of taking very serious stock of who we are as organizations and recognizing that now is not the time to be thinking of a merger. 

But again—this article articulated the VERY BIG differences between ComCons and FedCons.

RE: “Are those criteria going to come in to place before September 30th?”

No—I think that was a part of my point.

RE: “There are many orthodox Anglicans clamoring for lifeboats in mid October. If it ain’t Common Cause, it will be Rome, the East, alternative protestant or nothing at all.”

Right—and as I said, the ComCons I am speaking to will be opting for Rome, the East, etc, etc.

RE: “I do not share the snobbery of the ACI in regards to the continuing churches which seems to discuss these in dismissive tones.”

If by snobbery you mean the words that Dr. Radner said about whether the new Anglican church would be “Anglican” than I agree with you.  I think they will all be as Anglican as Anglican can be.

RE: “In her discussion of where she would fly, it seems that Sarah unfortunately shares this same snobbery.”

But here, I’m not certain what you mean.  If by “snobbery” you mean “Mean Sarah sees major issues with new Anglican entity and does not intend to be a part of that” than you’re right.  But isn’t that a kind of broad and loose definition of “snobbery”?  ; > )

As I’ve explained onerously in many other essays, for many reasons I do not think that an Anglicanism unconnected from the Communion will thrive here in the U.S.  I could be wrong, I guess, but that’s what I think.  I’ve explained why I think that in many other essays, but it comes down to, as I’ve explained in this essay, that some think it will thrive and is a good thing and will join it—and others won’t.  Others will go elsewhere, should the communion fracture.  And until the communion fractures, I’ll be within the Anglican Communion, God willing.

RobRoy, again . . . I understand that a FedCon won’t agree with what I think.  I’m just stating clearly, on the record, what I do believe and what I have found others believe with me.

For this reason, . . . well . . . no one’s commented on the two groups of farmers metaphor!  ; > )

[92] Posted by Sarah on 08-04-2007 at 06:27 AM • top

Lots to ruminate upon, one thing about the events of the past week, they have brought clarity, at least to me, not least in nudging me from Communion to Federal conservative.

[93] Posted by Anselmic on 08-04-2007 at 06:50 AM • top

Hi Timothy,

In response to your questions:

Regarding Duncan and Orombi giving up all hope in the Anglican Communion, I suspect that they have, but they are gracious and willing to wait until after September 30. 

Keep in mind that when I say that the FedCons have given up hope in the instruments of unity of the Anglican Communion, by that I mean that it is RIDICULOUS for ComCons, like ACI or other folks, to say “come, come, folks . . . if we just wait on the ABC [or Lambeth, or the ACC, or the Primates Meeting] to do the right thing, all will be well”—that does not appeal to or convince FedCons since they no longer really believe that the ABC will EVER do the right thing.

RE: “Since you don’t expect the GS primates to send a Radneresque resignation letter, by “fracturing” do you thus mean a situation where the largest Provinces stay in the Anglican Communion in name but effectively cease participating in its Instruments of Unity, such as Lambeth?”

I will be deeply disappointed if the various GS Primates who are considering not participating in the councils of the church do not also follow up their stated intentions of not participating by sending in a formal letter of goodbye to the ABC.  I consider it to be a, frankly, craven attempt to “have it both ways”—to claim to be a member of the communion when convenient, yet withdraw from the councils of the church when appropriate discipline has not, in fact, been enacted, and I can’t imagine the various Primates taking that path.

If the communion does not enact discipline, then there is no reason to be a part of such a communion and I find it deplorable, if indeed some GS Primates are actually saying to orthodox Episcopalians “leave the Anglican Communion, since it has not disciplined ECUSA” if they are not also in fact prepared to leave the Anglican Communion, since it has not disciplined ECUSA.

Now . . . if they have not, in fact, truly given up on the Anglican Communion, then of course they should partake of the councils of the church.  But if they have so given up, then I think the letter of resignation is only honorable.

See, Timothy . . . I’m not into a pretense here.  Either the communion has FAILED FINALLY, or it has not.  What I see amongst some, but not all, FedCons is a little pretend game.  It’s the game of “let’s pretend the communion has failed, and thus leave the councils . . . but sit on the sidelines and see if it really really really has failed, so that if not, we can dash back into the game.”

That’s one thing I do respect in the ACI—when things look bleak, they stick with their chosen path.

Understand, I’m not saying that ALL FedCons are sideline-watchers . . . but I do notice some of that tendency in some, and I think it is lacking in integrity.

In regards to my church options and activity level, I meant exactly what I said.

I do not intend to be heavily involved in church once I leave Anglicanism, if that becomes necessary.

You and I are in very different places.  I will be in most likely an EPC or non-denom church—a place where I can keep the command of God to worship Him in the company of other Christians.  And that is what I expect to do. 

I’ve said this before, but the things that I enjoy are writing, and reading, and hiking, and riding, and tennis, and camping, and reading some more.  I expect to be doing a whole lot more of all of those things—with maybe a dash of getting my kayak roll, learning to rock climb a bit, and some search and rescue dog training.

But church activity will most likely go from a level 10 to a 2. 

I don’t think that’s a bad thing.  Seasons come and go in life, and right now is a season of very heavy church involvement, for I love Anglicanism dearly.

[94] Posted by Sarah on 08-04-2007 at 06:51 AM • top

Hi Clark West, thanks for your comments.

I need to make something clear, if I have not already.  When you say this—“I am not surprised to see that in a number of the last few comments here, discussing core doctrines, we have seen how true Sarah’s words are up above, where she writes, “In fact, the more one focuses on doctrine as a means of unity, the more one recognizes that doctrine is actually an instrument of division—and not necessarily in a “bad sense” but often in a clarifying sense”—please know that the only reason why I believe that FedCons and ComCons are able to have this discussion over strategy and tactics is precisely because we are unified in our shared belief of the gospel.

Reappraisers and Reasserters are not unified in a shared belief of the gospel, and so they do not even have a “foundational” unity over which to disagree about strategy and tactics.

My essay above is with the assumption that FedCons and ComCons agree on the gospel—and indeed that is what I have found.  What I believe that I have articulated is the very different disagreements that the two groups have on something that is important—but comparatively minor with respect to the gospel—and that is our strategies and tactics for the renewal and reform of Anglicanism.

[95] Posted by Sarah on 08-04-2007 at 07:02 AM • top

Wonderful article Sarah!

For many of us, the network mission has evolved as our awareness of the truth of the situation has unfolded. At first we hoped that most people in the pews would reject this “new thing”.
Then we pinned our hopes on Windsor. A new covenant, modest discipline, we can stay in the Anglican Communion. But doublespeak seemed to hijack a perfectly legitimate idea (and document). Surely ECUSA could not be so brazen. Nor ABC so blind. Did he support a covenant, a process, or just delay?
Finally we realize, TEC leadership has consolidated. 815 is totally united and committed in their new direction. Their lawsuits are more like the Stalinists—snuff out the competition. The full scope of their new -ism is apparent to anyone with eyes. Yet many of my otherwise conservative friends cannot fathom change. They will follow the path of least resistance, gradually dropping away only when it becomes too weird to stay.
At each turn, the Network discovered these new, harsher realities. The transformation has been quite obvious. By degrees the mission seems to have migrated from:
1)    reform from within, to
2)  replace TEC as Anglicanism in America, to
3)  separate but equal, to
4)  a new, different communion
5)  a self declared Anglican federation
As the mission moves from #1 to #5 it loses people. No one can dispute that for now #1 is lost.
Yet each of these steps is nothing more than contingency planning. The network would immediately unite if tomorrow ABC were to simply decree #2 or #3. By the time we get to #4 many people might feel the work too hard, the lost pensions too great. Few new denominations succeed. Better to simply fade away into other Christian alternatives.
This is a preview of things that could be, but they are not yet ordained. Many cards remain to be played, some very soon. None of us know where the orthodox movement will come flying apart although this week we saw a hint. Patience.

[96] Posted by AngloTex on 08-04-2007 at 07:26 AM • top

RE: “As I see it, Sarah’s article above discusses how those who agree on an essential, but disagree on important particulars may interact, part ways if necessary, wish for each other’s success.”

Montanan . . . you’ve got it.  Thanks for this valuable one-sentence summary.

This is an article about the divisions amongst reasserters who, though they believe the same gospel, have other serious differences.  It’s about how we can “see one another off” to wherever they are going!  ; > )

David Ould and TUAD,

It appears that you are trying the old bait and switch of “why of course we believe in the Anglican Communion—just not Canterbury, Lambeth, the ACC, the Primates Meeting, merry old England, or much of anything else that has defined its structure—anyone who agrees with my version of Anglicanism is in the ‘Anglican Communion’ which is defined by me and my friends” . . . ; > )

RE: “. . . the Catholic Church is defined by it’s adherence to the truth, out of which certain structures may or may not arise.”

I’m fine with that.

But I was talking about the Anglican Communion which certainly has such “certain structures” and has helpfully self-defined itself as those churches and bishops which are recognized by the ABC as a part of the Anglican Communion.

It seems pretty clear that the FedCons are trucking off over to another area to begin their own communion.  And to the extent that they do that, they have indeed “given up on the Anglican Communion” as it has chosen to define itself very clearly down through the years.

And this is just fine—I understand why they want to do this.

But, indubitably, there will be plenty of churches and bishops as a part of that who will not be recognized by Canterbury, not be invited to Lambeth, not partake of the councils of the Anglican Communion . . .  [I am again reminded of the parrot skit in Monty Python].

I understand the FedCons wanting to start their own Anglican church and have as their “center that holds” or their unity-focus their Anglican confession [although I do not think that will ultimately hold them together] . . . but to also make the claim at the same time that, while doing that, “we have not given up on the actual structure called the Anglican Communion” is befuddlingly . . . well . . . “Episcopalian”—and I can hardly think of a worse insult.

It’s like former priests of the Roman Catholic church deciding that they can be non-celibate and married, and then, when the Roman Catholic church casts them out, they claim to still be members of the Roman Catholic church!  But they have violated its rules, they have been cast out, they are no longer priests of that church . . . and yet . . .

Again, it is fine to go start an Anglican church and to tie it to global provinces/primates and all sorts of other things.  Though I do not intend to be a part of it, I bless it and hope for its flourishment.  But to then turn around and say “oh, by the way, we have not given up on the Anglican Communion” is just breathtaking.

Perhaps I have misread what you are saying.  Perhaps you are saying “we are still giving it until September 30 and thus have not yet precisely given up on the AC” and if that is the case, then I understand.

Please know, again, that when I stated in my article that the FedCons had given up on the Anglican Communion, I was stating that for the benefit of all the ComCons out there who continue, oddly, to appeal to FedCons based on “waiting on the Anglican Communion to act” when it is crystal clear that you sincerely and fervently do not believe that it will act.  Like I said, that appeal is a bit like the FedCons stating to the ComCons “you must do more heavy lifting in regards to the setting up of the new non-Communion province” . . . when the ComCons don’t WANT the setting up of the new non-Communion province . . .

[97] Posted by Sarah on 08-04-2007 at 07:37 AM • top

Sarah -

Thanks for a thoughtful analysis.  I enjoyed reading it, although the morning coffee was exhausted before I finished, I kept hanging on.

I like you, will stay to the bitter end.  However, I am left wondering what the bitter end will look like and how will I recognize it when it’s here?

What must happen around 9/30 to restore things as they might have been?  If the HoB states that they will no longer consecrate non-celibate homosexuals to the episcopate, will state that no liturgies for SSU will be written or allowed, will that be sufficient?  Will APO also be required?  If those things happen, will any that have left return?  Are some only satisfied if TEC is declared out of communion anyway?  Where does that leave us? 

I worry, as I am too catholic to join a congregationalist church, too protestant to join Rome?  Where will I have to go if all American entities to choose from are out of communion with Canterbury?

I pray, I worry, and I cry. 

Thanks for reminding me that I am not the only one in such turmoil.

OMA

[98] Posted by OpenMindedAnglican on 08-04-2007 at 07:39 AM • top

Dear Sarah,
Thank you for responding to me. Of course I was, as you noted, conflating the distinction between reasserters and reappraisers with that of FedComs and ConComs, and that is surely a case of distinctions with a difference! I suppose what I was straining to say is how much I agree with your belief that the gospel is never to be conflated with doctrines or beliefs, that it goes much deeper—the very heart of which is simply this: Jesus Christ and him crucified. And with Paul, I do not take that to be simply a one time event done and gone (as in WWJD with Jesus as only a distant memory whose words we try to recall for advice as if He’s not here with us, right now!) but rather, that we, in our eucharistic lives, bear that death (and life!) in our bodies and die every day. That gospel truth is what I was pointing to in my example of the recent ecclesiastical trial in Central New York, where the remarkable fact is that gathered around the icon of the crucified Christ (born by the survivors of clergy sexual abuse and their witnesses, in this case an Episcopal priest, now once again in ‘good standing’—praise the Lord!) were both reasserters and reappraisers, Fedcons and ComCons;  without diminishing any of the differences of our fractious brothers and sisters, in this, our beloved church’s own time of trial, I am deeply grateful for this image of the eucharist, a giving thanks for the triumph of Christ’s love over the demonic force of silencing evil in our church’s denials of its violent abuses. And as you suggest, this Eucharist is to be found not only between the walls of our beloved, crumbling, flawed, oft-times faithless Anglican churches, not only in our contentious ecclesiastical trials and tribulations, but even in the simpler joys of life—hiking, riding, and tennis. Some of us, in our time of exile from the power plays of the church, have even decided to give the apostolic life a try: we’ve gone fishing! And hopefully we rest assured there, knowing that, as the gospel tells us, Christ will indeed come to meet us once again as friends, out in deep waters with our nets full of fish! I like mine barbecued—hickory wood if you please. 
Your brother in Christ,
Clark

[99] Posted by clark west on 08-04-2007 at 08:15 AM • top

Perhaps I have misread what you are saying.  Perhaps you are saying “we are still giving it until September 30 and thus have not yet precisely given up on the AC” and if that is the case, then I understand.

Sarah, please read my earlier post on 08-03-2007 at 02:55 PM.  And then read Spencer’s post 3:52pm and my reply to Spencer at 4:48.

I am genuinely praying that the Anglican Communion through the ABC and the primates will act in a timely manner with biblical consequences and discipline to any defiant unrepentance by the TEC HOB to the WR and Tanzania Communique at the 9/30 date. 

I do not fit at all within the caricature of a FedCon that you describe.

[100] Posted by Truth Unites... and Divides on 08-04-2007 at 08:17 AM • top

RE: “I do not fit at all within the caricature of a FedCon that you describe.”

Then no doubt Ephraim Radner’s and Chris Seitz’s continued appeals for you to wait on Canterbury and Lambeth will be persuasive and appealing.

; > )

[101] Posted by Sarah on 08-04-2007 at 08:22 AM • top

Fer goodness sakes Sarah!  You have me totally bamboozled and confused.  I have read numerous posts and articles by you about the ABC kicking the can down the road, running out the clock, intentional delay, always calling for another meeting and another meeting after that, etc….

You yourself know this to be the case.  Your articles that was one of my favorites was the “Process Battles” that you wrote during the Tanzania meeting.  You’re an expert on The Game.

What’s wrong with advance public signalling by the GS primates that there needs to be some spine and integrity post 9/30, else Lambeth 2008 attendance is a moral farce and an utter compromise of theological integrity for them?

In short, at one time you figuratively said, “Stop kicking the can down the road!” but now you’ve switched over and are saying, “Let’s kick the can down the road this time.” 

I don’t get it!  (Insert Goofy Smiley Face here)

[102] Posted by Truth Unites... and Divides on 08-04-2007 at 08:35 AM • top

clark, I do not at all think Sarah was saying that the gospel is not to be conflated with doctrines and beliefs. It is very much about belief and doctrine. She was saying that doctrine tends to divide and that is why she believes it cannot be the sole instrument of our unity. Doctrine does divide…but that is not necessarily a bad thing. It divides in a good way…do not think that I have come to bring peace…I did not come to bring peace but the sword.

[103] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 08-04-2007 at 08:39 AM • top

Thanks Matt, you are right.  I’m all for doctrine, and am certainly a reformed Anglican, but I do think that doctrine will not hold Anglicans together.

TUAD, it seems that we are using different examples of what is “giving up on the Anglican Communion” . . . I think I’ve made clear that going off to start a new Anglican entity outside of the Anglican Communion appears to be a serious “giving up” on the Anglican Communion.  You seem to be pointing to other things—actions and words—that you think are indications of FedCons NOT “giving up” on the Anglican Communion.

I guess we’ll see which it is by the end of this year.

[104] Posted by Sarah on 08-04-2007 at 08:50 AM • top

Sarah, I really like the way you’ve presented this.  I am a ComCon, but find myself in sympathy with the FedCons and mostly criticizing the ComCons in these forums.  What resonated for me is, “Because for many of us . . . it will be never.”

That’s my answer: frankly, I’m almost out the door as it is, because, like you, I don’t expect the Communion to act to discipline ECUSAECUSA is going to remain the Anglican province here and, barring miraculous divine intervention, continue and accelerate on its path.

What came home from your article is why I find myself criticizing my theological brethren: I get the sense that for most ComCons, the answer isn’t “never” (I may be wrong).  Taking Radner+, for example, I think his answer is, “go down with the ship.”  After ECUSA has been formalized in its ways by Communion inaction, and all of the faithful FedCon Anglicans that merely stand where Christianity has always stood are cast adrift - not good enough for Rowan Williams - and, after ECUSA has moved on to who knows what fresh innovations - I suspect Radner+ and company will still be here, pleading for more time.

My problem with my fellow ComCons is that they don’t appear to think the lunacy should ever end.  I do; you do; for many others, I wonder.

[105] Posted by Phil on 08-04-2007 at 09:02 AM • top

I think I’ve made clear that going off to start a new Anglican entity outside of the Anglican Communion appears to be a serious “giving up” on the Anglican Communion.  You seem to be pointing to other things—actions and words—that you think are indications of FedCons NOT “giving up” on the Anglican Communion.

I think where we’re probably talking past each other is that I emphasize the PROMISE to set up an alternative Anglican province for the orthodox in North America as the means to pressure the ABC into doing what he’s biblically mandated to do.  You, on the other hand, see the prudent contingency planning for an alternative Anglican province as being the direct equivalent to “giving up” on the Anglican Communion.

I respectfully yet firmly differ with your assessment.  My prayer is for unity among Fedcons and CommCons.

[106] Posted by Truth Unites... and Divides on 08-04-2007 at 09:09 AM • top

Phil, you noted that some comcons don’t appear to think the lunacy will ever end.  Radner+ wrote in response to his critics:

  There are better ways forward (e.g. the reconvening of a General Convention faithful to its Constitution, by willing bishops and their diocesan deputies, seeking the recognition of the Communion). 

That seems to fit in with your definition of lunacy.  To look forward to the establishment of an new Anglican province (which will have immense challenges, as Sarah notes) is a far better course than the “never” perspective of Radner+ and others.

[107] Posted by hanks on 08-04-2007 at 09:23 AM • top

Dear Matt+,
Yes, thank you, I have Jesus’ words about not bringing peace but a sword in my heart as well. Especially in my experience of the ‘false peace’ that a number of bishops have tried to force upon those of us who have raised the issue of sexual abuse in the church—we are told that we are dividing the church, disturbing the peace, etc. etc. And so the verse you quote comes to mind immediately and I hold it to my heart as a shield to fend off the fiery darts of the evil one, the Father of lies. I take the sword Jesus speaks of to be none other than the Sword of the Holy Spirit, much more than a doctrine—the living, breathing, third person of the Trinity, which is Truth. And yes, as my favorite moniker on this site has it, this truth divides, it is a sharp two edged sword, and it cuts hard against sin with the merciful, masterful skill of a surgeon. It does not divide brother from brother or sister from brother (it does not divide Ephraim from Bishop Duncan, for example, for it does not contend against flesh and blood but against the principalities and powers); but it divides good from evil, sin from righteousness, the truth from lies. Our unity rests,  as has been said by many, not in ourselves, not in our church, not in our doctrines, but in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Truth upon which the church rests, against which it is judged (Yes, I know, I just monkey-ed with the creed: maybe its the devil in me!). On that Truth, in that Holy Spirit, I pray, and I believe, with every ounce of doctrinal, biblical, reforming bone in my body, we agree!
Your brother in Christ,
Clark+

[108] Posted by clark west on 08-04-2007 at 09:29 AM • top

I find the talk of switching to a congregational or presbyiterian church, rather than finding a home in one of the many “Continuing Churches”, distressing and confusing. To an outsider, it looks like you’re saying, “Well, I couldn’t make the Episcopal Church into the generic conservative Protestant body I wanted to, so having raised as much of a ruckus in it that I can, I’ll switch.” Given the fact that the “Continuing Churches” run the gamut from spikey Anglo-Catholic all the way to 39 Article-affirming Evangelical, the fact that you’d switch to the Lutherans or your local Bible Church instead of finding a home in the Continuum gives the impression that preserving the Anglican vision of Christianity is not what’s really at the heart of the conflict.

[109] Posted by BillyD on 08-04-2007 at 09:31 AM • top

hanks, I’m glad you pointed out that section.  Here’s Rev. Radner, saying separation is wrong, yet suggesting (as I read it) a unilateral declaration by willing bishops (and we’ve seen which bishops are “willing” - about five of them) that they’re really General Convention and asking for the Communion’s recognition.

And that’s not separation?  How is that different from asking for a replacement province - the exact thing Radner+ ridicules?

[110] Posted by Phil on 08-04-2007 at 09:34 AM • top

I still think all the hand wringing about the “split” between FedCons and ComCons is premature and overdone.  As Sarah’s fine article points out, there are lots of gradations on both sides of this supposed divide.

For example, I’m basically a Fed Con, but I haven’t given up on the ABC yet—certainly not to the extent that most FedCons have.  I think he’s a very smart man and a very shrewed politician in a very tight spot.  I’m not convinced he’s going to succeed, but I also don’t share the view that he’s doing nothing while the Communion crashes down around him.  None of us are in his shoes right now, and since I’m not in his shoes I’m less willing to judge him than many others are.  I also disagree that he’s done nothing.  I think he’s actually done quite a lot.  Let’s not forget that the reappraisers aren’t real happy with him either!  Wasn’t so long ago that they were saying things about the ABC that sound VERY MUCH like what reasserters are now saying.

When one considers his own personal theology of a decade (or less) ago, and then considers how he has actually acted as the ABC, I think he has more than demonstrated that he understands and values the Communion, and is working very hard to save it—or as much of it as possible.  I also think he REALLY believes in the Concilliar process—he doesn’t see it as his role to “discipline” any part of the Communion until the entire process of the Church speaking its mind has been worked through—and that takes a very, very long time—probably longer than any of us have the patience for.

So, I’m a FedCon who isn’t yet willing to write off the ABC.  He has surprised us before and I’m just not willing to write him off before the end of September.  At the same time, I have absolutely NO problem with Global South Primates, the Network, and anyone else putting as much pressure on the ABC as possible, to ensure that he does indeed do the right thing at the end of September.  The other side is certainly trying to do the same.

These observations lead me to reflect that when you boil it down, the essential difference between FedCons and ComCons at this point seems to be one of strategy—I’m just not persuaded that there are profound core difference in doctrine or ecclesiology between FedCons and ComCons, as Sarah and many others claim there are.  My sense of it is that ComCons tend to be more, how do I put this—polite.  They seem to be more respectful (trusting?) of the institutional structures of the Communion (although Sarah clearly shows that even this is fluid as she has little hope for either the ABC or the Windsor process).  Sarah, I think, is about as far as you can go in rejecting the Windsor process and still call yourself a ComCon.  Most ComCons seem to have a lot more hope in Windsor than Sarah does (but then again, maybe working too closely with Matt+ and David has unduly influenced her and she’s some sort of a hybrid now and no longer a “true” ComCon).

For me ACI remains the gold standard for what a ComCon is.  They very clearly still believe in the Windsor process and even in the ABC.  I find I agree with a lot of their logic, and I hope that they’re right.  However, I’m just not willing to put as much faith in the Windsor Bishops as they are calling for.  I was a lot more willing to buy their arguments about the Windsor Bishops a year ago than I am today.  I just don’t think we’ve seen much evidence that there really is an effective coordinated body of reasserting bishops willing to act beyond the Network bishops.  If there indeed is such a group of bishops, they REALLY need to stand up at the HOB meeting next month and be counted.  If they don’t, I think we can write them off as wishful thinking by well-intended ComCons.

FedCons are a little less polite.  While not completely writing off the Windsor process, they’re a little more skeptical that, left to their own devices, the instruments of the Communion will do the right thing.  FedCons, I think are more willing to push the envelope and be a bit more pro-active (pushy?).  Despite all the mis-quoting of what Bishop Duncan said at the meeting of the Network Council, he did NOT give up on anything.  He made it pretty clear that the meeting in Sept. is critical to the future of the Communion, and he laid out the consequences if some further compromise is made to the TEC, but he didn’t give up on the ABC or the Communion.  As a (converted) FedCon he has been disappointed enough in the past to engage in pressure politics as we go into this critical meeting in September.  That’s ALL I saw at the Network.  A very firm warning.  Let me be clear here, I don’t think that Bishop Duncan is bluffing, but I do think that he’s being very political and very strategic.  As a FedCon I think that’s great!

Ironically, from reading Sarah’s article, I think that FedCons may actually be MORE optimistic about the future of the Communion and Anglicanism than the ComCons are.  ComCons do seem to be very wedded to the historic Communion as it is currently.  If that dies, for them Anglicanism is over (or at least that’s what they say now).  FedCons, I think say: “Hey, wait a minute, there was Anglicanism long before there was an Anglican Communion, and the Anglican Communion itself has evolved significantly over the past century and a half, so who’s to say it will stop evolving now?”  Think about this historically for a minute, would a meeting of the Anglican Communion in the 1950s look ANYTHING like Lambeth 1998 or 2008?  As TEC found to its horror, the answer is NO!  The “natives” have taken over!  Africans, Asians, and Latin Americans are no longer willing to listen to liberal White folk tell them what the Gospel means.

FedCons are a little more relaxed than ConComs are about the specific shape of the Communion going forward than ComCons are.  FedComs certainly hope that the ABC will continue as the focus of unity for the Communion going forward, but they can live with yet another evolution of Anglicanism if that’s not possible.  ComCons can’t imagine an Anglican future where the ABC is not the focus of the Communion.  That’s why I think that they’re ultimately more pessimistic than FedCons are.  They are much less comfortable listening to Archbishop (or Presiding Bishop) Greg Venebles at his Mon. afternoon Network Bible Study than FedCons are.

FedCons tend to look at numbers more than historic institutions and relationships as a guide to where the future of Anglicanism lies.  Maybe that’s why they’re more optimistic than ComCons are.  When FedCons look at the numbers, they realize that the VAST majority of the global Communion is with them.  Furthermore, it’s in those places where Anglicanism is booming.  The historic insitutions and relationships of Anglicanism are heavily based in the West—precisely where Anglicanism has been in steep decline for the past half-century.  FedCons are much more sanguine about the future of Anglicanism than ComCons because FedCons accept that evolution in the nature of the Communion may be a necessity.  They look to the past, see tremendous evolution, and then shrug their shoulders if there needs to be tremendous evolution in the future.  Since there was Anglicanism for over two centuries BEFORE there was an Anglican Communion, FedCons are not quite as fixated on the institutions and relationships of the historic Communion AS THEY PRESENTLY EXIST as ComCons are.  FedCons aren’t rushing to toss out the ABC or the other structures of the Communion by any means, but they can imagine Anglican Christianity outside the structures of the present Communion—ComCons cannot.

[111] Posted by Chris Taylor on 08-04-2007 at 09:45 AM • top

Sarah,
Spot on. Thank you very much, not only for the article, but also for sticking around to respond and clean up the inevitable misconceptions. You are most appreciated.
Let’s see, now.
File
Send link
Address to Rector and Bp. Johnson
Add Montanan’s Blockquote “As I see it, Sarah’s article (below) discusses how those who agree on an essential, but disagree on important particulars may interact, part ways if necessary, wish for each other’s success.”
Send
Start another conversation

ComConningly yours,

John1

[112] Posted by john1 on 08-04-2007 at 09:46 AM • top

Hi again.
About two hours ago, I asked for a “definition” of “Fracture” as applied to the Anglican Communion. Sarah used it several times as in, “until such time as it fractures”. (or similar), and others have used it also.

How does one recognize a “fracture” of the Anglican Communion?
Its made up of many parts, would it take the failure/splitting of the CoE to arrive at such a conclusion.?

This is a serious question.

Blessings,
Grannie Gloria

[113] Posted by Grandmother on 08-04-2007 at 09:53 AM • top

RE: ““Well, I couldn’t make the Episcopal Church into the generic conservative Protestant body I wanted to, so having raised as much of a ruckus in it that I can, I’ll switch.” Given the fact that the “Continuing Churches” run the gamut from spikey Anglo-Catholic all the way to 39 Article-affirming Evangelical, the fact that you’d switch to the Lutherans or your local Bible Church instead of finding a home in the Continuum gives the impression that preserving the Anglican vision of Christianity is not what’s really at the heart of the conflict.”

BillyD, I am unsure of where I’ve ever said that I wish for the Episcopal church to be a “generic conservative Protestant body”.  I actually no longer have any wishes at all for the Episcopal church, although I still do have hopes for the Anglican Communion.  The Episcopal church is ruled by a tiny cabal of progressives who were clever and hard-working enough to take over the instruments of power at the national levels and in many of the dioceses.  That pretty much ends any hope for reform in my book, although certainly conservative Episcopalians are welcome to try [although they do not ever seem to have any answers as to how they are going to reform the national structure].

I hope that the Anglican Communion will discipline itself and establish a boundaried, ordered identity.  If it does not, it will surely surely divide.  When it divides, I shall leave it.

Finally, when you say that folks leaving the Anglican Communion when it fractures should find “a home in the Continuum” for “preserving the Anglican vision of Christianity” I see that you must not have read the article, because I have clearly and repeatedly stated that I do not believe that the Anglican vision of Christianity will be at all preserved through a non-Communion Anglican entity in the U.S.

Of course, you may differ—you may believe firmly that the Anglican vision of Christianity shall be preserved in a non-Communion Anglican entity.  But it is fruitless to say to the ComCons among you “preserve the Anglican vision of Christianity—go to the new non-Communion-centered Anglican province” when they simply do not believe that the non-Communion-centered Anglican province is “preserving the Anglican vision of Christianity.”

In many other articles [linked in comments above] I have listed the reasons why I think this is so.  But this article was not to *argue* but to describe the various players amongst Anglican reasserters, to articulate and clarify views, and then ask and hope that we all take leave, when the time comes, with some degree of dignity and honor and blessing.

[114] Posted by Sarah on 08-04-2007 at 09:55 AM • top

Sarah - I should have mentioned in my prior post how fine and illuminating your article is.  Thank you.

“I worry, as I am too catholic to join a congregationalist church, too protestant to join Rome?  Where will I have to go if all American entities to choose from are out of communion with Canterbury?”

Yes - me too!  By action I am a FedCon (I left my TEC parish for a start-up parish under Uganda).  However, by heart I seem at least to lean toward being a ComCon.  The reason my actions are FedCon is that I have children in my charge (my own) and could not truck being in a church with harmful doctrine which they would inevitably hear and try to sort through.  If I did not have young (pre- and early-teen) children, I would likely be in my former TEC parish - hoping/working for discipline.

So this leads me to a question - while I’m sure there are many ComCons who have young children and many FedCons who do not, I wonder if this has been a factor for other de facto FedCons ... ?  (That was meant to be a question, though it wasn’t framed appropriately.  Forgive my sentence structure failures, please.)  I would love to hear from others on this, as it was a factor for at least a few of us who left our former parish - some of whom joined the new parish, some of whom went to congregational churches.

[115] Posted by montanan on 08-04-2007 at 09:57 AM • top

Sarah, thanks for responding to my post! I admit I was trifle goading but in a loving way.

I also took exception to the Stephen Noll is not talking to the desired audience. The desired audience is the waffling Network bishops. Actually, you may be right. After reading that paragraph, I think that Dr. Noll didn’t address the issue that seems to be in contention. Dr. Noll asked them to leave the TEC and you and supposedly others equate that to leaving the Anglican communion. This may be the fundamental issue dividing the fed cons and the comm cons.

In the thread of Ephraim’s letter over at titus, I objected to his “not recognizing” Bp Duncan’s Anglicanism. I pointed out that Samuel Seabury was irregularly consecrated by…foreign bishops no less(!) and was not in communion with the ABC and was never invited to Lambeth. I thought about this more, and it should be that his ecclesiastical progeny should be considered irregularly consecrated as well. This applies to pretty much all the TEC clergy. Am I saying that all TEC clergy are ecclesiastical ba$tards? No, for example Ephraim Radner was ordained in Burundi and Richard Kew was ordained in England, but for Matt, the charge stands.

Thus, Dr. Noll’s call to leave the TEC is not diminish their irregular status in the Anglican communion at all. It is a call to follow in the footsteps of Samuel Seabury!

[116] Posted by robroy on 08-04-2007 at 09:59 AM • top

Should be “Thus, Dr. Noll’s call to leave the TEC is not diminish their already irregular status in the Anglican communion at all.”

[117] Posted by robroy on 08-04-2007 at 10:02 AM • top

Chris Taylor

That is the best analysis of the situation I have read in a long time.  Thanks.

BTW, ComCons and FedCons sounds like something out of Dr. Strangelove.  Why don’t we just stick with Commies and Feds?

[118] Posted by wildfire on 08-04-2007 at 10:27 AM • top

Some time ago, I had spent a lot of hours trying to one-up other Presbyterians as to who was Reformed, and who was “more Reformed.”  I now find such discussions, boiled down, to be asking who gets to sit at the right-hand of our Lord. 

Sarah, I appreciate the article.  But I disagree with the analogy.  It isn’t as though we’re leaving one another to never fight on the same battlefield again.  Indeed, we’ll undoubtably fight the same battles, though perhaps on different fronts. 

What I would suggest is that God is doing something with His Church.  He’s creating a work of art - a tapestry, if you will. 

When I worked as a sculptor, people would come up to me and remark (self-depracatingly) that they didn’t even possess the ability to draw a straight line.  I’d tell them that the secret was in NOT creating a straight line. 

But often when I was in the middle of creating something, a lot of times it wasn’t clear to someone watching, what would emerge from the mess.  It just looked like ... well, a mess. 

As Christians, we know what God’s work of art will look like, at the end of the ages.  We don’t however, know how He is creating it in the here and now.  It’s a far cry from straight-lines and circles - in fact, it looks like a mess that is (at least humanly speaking) impossible to make into something noble and aesthetic and Very-Good. 

FWIW, I think a lot of what you say regarding both the Fedcons and the Comcons, has merit.  I’m not in the least bit depressed in that admission - far from it.  I myself will probably “go with” (whatever that means) the Feds.  It is after all, of the most benefit to my family. 

But of the Comcons who leave for Rome, Antioch, or Geneva - they bring something with them.  The threads twist crooked, some straight, and something wonderful comes out.  Frankly, I’m hoping that this will have a favorable effect on my old stomping grounds (Geneva). 

In closing, I echo the words of the ancient Ninevites, gambling that the God of justice that Jonah preached about, was also a God of grace. 

Who knows? 
... Who knows?!!!

smile

[119] Posted by Moot on 08-04-2007 at 11:01 AM • top

Hi Rob Roy,

You said: “I also took exception to the Stephen Noll is not talking to the desired audience.”

I did not say that he was not speaking to the desired audience.  Indeed, he was speaking in part to those bishops who are not interested in being a part of a non-Communion new Anglican province—yet all he could say was to essentially adjure them to do what clearly their goals, priorities, values, theology, and ecclesiology are not compatible with!  So what I said was that in speaking to his audience, he was unpersuasive because he merely told them to do what FedCons want: “In short, Dr. Noll says to the Communion conservatives “seek unity—forfeit your own theology, ecclesiology, values, and goals—and accede to the theology, ecclesiology, values, and goals of us Federal conservatives.” It is a truly breathtaking letter, and one that I suspect had no persuasive power at all for Communion conservative bishops. One cannot help but ask why we then could not say back to the Federal conservatives “seek unity—forfeit your own theology, ecclesiology, values, and goals, and accede to the theology, ecclesiology, values, and goals of us Communion conservatives.”

I do not see any concern on the part of either Federal or Communion conservatives about their being “irregularly” ordained, nor does that have anything at all to do with the fact that ComCons do not wish to be a part of a non-Communion-approved new province.  I wonder if you may be confusing the word “irregular” with “invalid”.

[120] Posted by Sarah on 08-04-2007 at 11:12 AM • top

Hi Grandmother,

I suspect a lot of Episcopalian/Anglicans will answer your question about recognizing a “fracture” in the Anglican Communion with “I’ll know it when I see it.”

I personally describe a fracture in the communion as a point when some Primates no longer participate in the councils of the church and have further indicated that they do not wish to be a part of the Anglican Communion.  I think that’s a pretty sure sign of “fracture” . . .

Were ECUSA to be disciplined, I would not count that as a fracture, since manifestly there would be a new entity developed by the communion to take its place as a replacement province.  But I suspect that discipline of ECUSA would actually involve more of not inviting certain bishops nor including them as a part of the recognized Anglican Communion.

In the cases of Nigeria or Uganda or Kenya departing the Anglican Communion, I suppose the communion could try to announce some sort of “replacement” province . . . but I suspect the effort would fall flat on its face.

[121] Posted by Sarah on 08-04-2007 at 11:17 AM • top

Grannie, I believe that the communion is fractured already. Sarah uses the primates not participating in council. The ABC with some difficulty got the GS primates to participate in the DeS meeting with KJS in attending. With her agreement to the communique, then “nothing was signed”, then “I just agreed to be a messenger”, the GS primates will never again participate in such a fashion.

[122] Posted by rob-roy on 08-04-2007 at 11:54 AM • top

Sarah,
I concur with what I perceive as your pessimism about the ability of the Communion through its instruments of unity to reform TEC and the Communion itself by extension (for if TEC can’t be reformed or disciplined the rot cannot but continue to all other healthier branches), but I am curious why you seem so disinclined to join with an attempt to recreate an Anglican Communion through the Federal Conservative/Common Cause crowd. Is your position shaped by a belief that Anglicanism would be inauthentic and illegitimate apart from a connection with Canterbury?

If this is so, I wonder what ecclessiological princople you are drawing from to maintain this, for it certainly isn’t an authentically Anglican one. Anglicanism’s foundational ecclesiology works in exactly the opposit direction. We broke from our central unifying idenitfier, Rome, in the belief that our central catholic identity came not essentially from her as our mother, but from a common source. Though Rome was our elder and our, then, present authority, we believed that if she had fallen into error it was possible for us to continue apart from her.

Why would it not be equally possible for descendemnts of Brittish Christianity in the Anglican form to continue as Anglicans while the outward head, Canterbury, has fallen for a time into error? That you are likewise pessimistic, and perhaps justifiably so, about the likyhood of success in that venture is another matter. That is a practical question, not a spiritual or theological one. Anglicanism may be doomed as a practical matter. But the attempt to continue it apart from Canterbury has no less legitimacy than our 400 plus years’ attempt to continue catholicism apart from Rome.

Of course, Rome might agree with my last sentence as well.

[123] Posted by Christopher Hathaway on 08-04-2007 at 01:21 PM • top

Hi Christopher . . .

RE: “Is your position shaped by a belief that Anglicanism would be inauthentic and illegitimate apart from a connection with Canterbury?”

No, it isn’t.  I write about all of that [my reasons why] in these three articles:

http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/3082/
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/3096/
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/3117/

[124] Posted by Sarah on 08-04-2007 at 01:27 PM • top

Sarah—

Excellent work.  Your essays have come to define the language in which many talk about (and therefore think of) the Current Unpleasantness.  Quite an accomplishment.

Two observations.  First, your “pigs can fly” meme doesn’t work.  I suspect it is clearer in your mind, but the vision behind the comic scene doesn’t come across.  You should also avoid apologizing in the middle of analogies.

Second, your “cancer patient” analogy does.  It also helps to explain why the tensions are so high in the strongest Windsor dioceses.  I reported a few weeks ago about how priests and parishes in Central Florida are freaking out, in spite of having one of the most insightful bishops.  For his trouble, + Howe is written off as an “institutionalist.”  That he is not; but he is devoted to the principles of order in the church catholic.  Or, in your terminology, he is a CommCon trapped in the leadership of a diseased church.  But his stance makes those under him—especially the clergy who see his impending retirement and the circus in South Carolina—beside themselves.  It is ironic that some congregations have departed his jurisdiction, and others are mulling such moves, when their current environment is serene.  Some of them are FedCons; others are just scared.  But having a stout Windsor bishop is no guarantee of rest. 

Likewise, +Libscomb in SW Florida was furious with the Plano people—he thought he had mediated a standdown when the parish decided to bolt.  He, again, is communion-minded; the Texas people proved confessional.  It is ironic again that the departing parish left a conservative diocese. 

In short, your language and distinctions have predictive power and therefore analytical usefulness.  As for what we catholic-minded Anglicans in TEC should do—God only knows.

[125] Posted by Paladin1789 on 08-04-2007 at 02:31 PM • top

Speakiong of Sarah’s great metaphors:

You see, ECUSA won’t—can’t—stop plunging forward. It’s a stagecoach with some runaway horses and a clear field ahead. Moderate conservatives—especially the naturally “stabilizing” and institutional bishops—have much revisionist “shock and awe” ahead for them over the next, oh, say five years. It won’t be pretty. And I frankly think that will be good for the moderate conservatives. Time for them to know what it feels like to be on the very front row with a window seat of the runaway stagecoach.

[126] Posted by Deja Vu on 08-04-2007 at 02:39 PM • top

Sarah,
I do not wish to debate you, for your reasoning is quite solid, however I would like to offer you vision of a more hopeful future.

As I have said numerous times I still have hope that the ABC will begrudgingly let the primates discipline TEC and Lambeth invitations will be rescinded.  I offer no justification for this other than what I have posted numerous times about the absolute stupidity for the ABC to do otherwise, so I will not repeat that argument here.  But rather, I would ask you to have hope (as I know you do) in an almighty God who loves His church so much that just when things look the bleakest, His church emerges victorious!  I can see the church being renewed by this crisis as people all over the globe rethink (or think for the first time) the importance of the Great Commandment and the Great Commission.  I can also see this renewal happening either through a healthy Anglican Communion as demonstrated by strict discipline of TEC or through a vibrant GS based Anglican Communion with a Common Cause province in North America.

What I am asking of you is to now turn away from being pessimistic about the future, and instead to imagine the possibilities of being on the verge of a vibrant renewal.  I would ask you to turn your thoughts toward what can be done and then ask God to strengthen his church to make that happen.  I would just love to read an article from you which compares and contrasts such wondrous possibilities from an optimistic point of view.  Can you change hats, put on the optimistic one and come up with another literary marvel such as this one?  I think if you did, the exercise itself would bring you much encouragement and peace, and likewise the publication of such would encourage the body.  So, what do you think?  Can I entice you to do so?  Pretty Please? cheese

[127] Posted by Spencer on 08-04-2007 at 02:55 PM • top

What Chris Taylor and Spencer said above!  Also, I like Mark McCall’s new nomenclature for Communion Conservatives and Federal Conservatives:  Commies and Fedsgrin

[128] Posted by Truth Unites... and Divides on 08-04-2007 at 04:28 PM • top

Therefore take up the whole armor of God, so that you will be able to withstand on that evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. Stand therefore, and fasten the belt of truth around your waist, and put on the breastplate of righteousness. As shoes for your feet put on whatever will make you ready to proclaim the gospel of peace.(Ephesians 6:13-15)

[129] Posted by Deja Vu on 08-04-2007 at 04:56 PM • top

.....I now hasten to join the fray, while fully aware that there would be no real argument or debate if we did not all also acknowledge one another as people who believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I could not read past the 2nd sentence.  The Revisionists have denied the gospel of Jesus Christ and have abandoned Holy Scriptures as the inspired Word of God.  They have walked away from core tenets of the faith and God’s moral authority.

[130] Posted by RevOrganist on 08-04-2007 at 05:26 PM • top

.....so in that regard, Sarah is correct:  there is no argument or debate.

[131] Posted by RevOrganist on 08-04-2007 at 05:35 PM • top

Spencer - Amen!

.... I would ask you to have hope (as I know you do) in an almighty God who loves His church so much that just when things look the bleakest, His church emerges victorious!  I can see the church being renewed .... either through a healthy Anglican Communion as demonstrated by strict discipline of TEC or through a vibrant GS based Anglican Communion with a Common Cause province in North America.

.... I would just love to read an article from you which compares and contrasts such wondrous possibilities from an optimistic point of view.  Can you change hats, put on the optimistic one and come up with another literary marvel such as this one?  ... the publication of such would encourage the body….

Posted by Spencer on 08-04-2007 at 04:55 PM

Sarah,
Your analysis of the two groups of people involved in the Anglican orthodox activity in the US was very helpful, but, I think, fortunately incomplete. I agree with Spencer that what we want from this debacle is not merely rescue of the US Anglican faithful and a church in which they can be a part. What we seek and need to seek is “vibrant renewal”.

1 Co 2:9 But just as it is written, “Things that no eye has seen, or ear heard, or mind imagined, are the things God has prepared for those who love him.”

What I want to be a part of is the East African Revival (still going many decades after it began), the life of the early reformers that started what we now call Anglicanism, part of the same intensity that drove Bishop Philander Chase to evangelize and organize the churches in Ohio, and then move on and do the same in Indiana. I want to be part of an Anglican presence in the US that is on fire for the Great Commission and the Great Commands.

I think that we may be surprised to see how God uses aspects of both ComCon and FedCon thinking, planning, writing, and actions to prepare the way for a future Anglican presence that neither group would completely be able to predict.

If anything was missing from your analysis, it was the imponderable but certain promise of 1 Co 2:9. The future of Anglican Christianity will not be determined solely by groups of serious, committed people working to build or reform a human institution. It is ultimately not our church.

[132] Posted by Bill Cool on 08-04-2007 at 05:52 PM • top

Spencer, following is something Sarah wrote in May, perhaps begrudgingly optimistic:

Furthermore, in the coming years, were Archbishop Akinola and a cluster of other primates to send Rowan Williams the equivalent of a “please take me off your mailing list” communication—that is, were they to, as a group, leave the Anglican Communion, and announce that fact, with declarations that they were no longer going to be involved in a communion that had failed to discipline, I would—from afar, in my congregational, non-Anglican church—consider that a very very interesting development. I do not believe that one could base a new communion on one man—a man who will be retiring soon—but one could potentially see the seed of a future communion—far into the future—based on such a principled, unified stand of integrity. In other words, were the communion to fail utterly to discipline itself, and were a group of primates to recognize the catastrophic and inevitable loss of gospel, witness, and health that that failure means, and were that group to then depart the communion as a group . . . something fruitful might occur.

I think that’s a very possible scenario and I hope Sarah still harbors that optimism.

[133] Posted by hanks on 08-04-2007 at 06:49 PM • top

I realize that someone asked me not to post on anything other than the original article, but several drect questions were posed to me and I will attempt to answer them.  And, quite frankly, I don’t see how what I posted digresses all that much from the original conversation anyway.

Yes I can say the Creeds and mean them and not with my fingers crossed either.  I believe what they say.  As one with a scientific background I learned long ago that some events don’t really have logical explanations.  That’s when faith comes into play.  I do believe that God created the heavens and the earth.  I am not the slightest bit interested in how that took place. I’m just interested in the fact that it DID take place.  The same applies to the virgin birth, the resurrection, etc.  I don’t care how they happened, only THAT they happened. 

To clarify, the Executive Council has not sued anyone.  There are several bishops and dioceses who are engaged in legal actions, but the EC has not filed any lawsuits on property issues.

I see evidence of accommodations being made for those with differences of opinion all the time….even in my own diocese.  They are being made within the existing canons and constitution.  For example, canons require an episcopal visit by the ordinary of a diocese on a regular basis.  While arrangements may be made for DEPO or some other procedure, the ordinary must still visit according to canon. 

As far as any prohibitions about believers suing other believers, I would just pose a similar questioin:  Do you charge interest on loans?  Keep in mind that these were written in different times and under different contexts and that there was a real expectation among first century Chritians that Jesus would be returning soon.  Long term issues didn’t seem to fit well with that if they were not going to be there anyway.

If one reads the NT carefully there is no prohibition against polygamy except for bishops!  The language is something on the order of:  “A bishop shall be the husband of only one wife.”  I am not advocating polygamy.  But there is nothing to prohibit it except for bishops. 

We can go tit for tat with this for centuries and continue to miss the more important point:  We have all been saved by the boundess grace of God through Jesus Christ.  We didn’t earn it.  We can’t buy it or talk our way into it.  It is a gift of grace.  That ‘s what I think of when I see that paten and chalice raised in the Eucharist.  That’s really all that matters to me. 

Now that I have apparently interupted your train of thought again, please accept my apologies.  I will now retreat and get out of your discussion.

Bruce Garner

[134] Posted by Bruce Garner on 08-04-2007 at 07:36 PM • top

I don’t think that the two categories, fedcons and comcons , are particulary helpful. I for one am not content to be constrained by those categories. It would be more accurate to refer to two ecclesiologies: institutionalist ecclesiology for what Sarah calls comcons and biblical ecclesiology for those she terms fed cons. The former eclesiology is shared by both revisionists and those conservatives who will never be prepared to exercise biblical disipline against TEC. They define the Anglican Communion in terms of geographical boundires, canons and the approval of whoever occupies the see of Canterbury . These are all mere human conventions.  The latter ( who favour biblical ecclesiology)  define Anglicanisim in terms of theology: faithfulness to Christ first and foremost, to the scriptures, the apostolic faith , the creeds and the dogmatic definitions of the councils of the undivided church, i.e. in terms of divine revelation, not human convention. It is for this reason that Nigeria has redefined its understanding of Anglicanism in terms of shared faith, not in terms of Canterbury. If Rome can err, so can Canterbury.

This explains why so-called comcons such as Radner, the ACi and some conservative bishops reserve for their fellow conservatives (who differ on strategy but who share the same theology) a degree of savage vitriol and vindictiveness not expended on their common enemies with whom they share an ecclesiology. The institution trumps biblical faithfulness, according to the rules of their game.

Sarah is quite correct in her estimation of the ABC and the (un)likelihood of him disciplining TEC and Canada. I believe she is mistaken in assuming that those who have a biblical ecclesiology have given up on the Anglican Communion. Those of us who have left TEC/ACC (Anglican Church of Canada) in favour of submitting to godly oversight from overseas have done so precisely because we value the wider communion and sought a vehicle through which we could remain a part of it when it would be so much easier to start or join a new denomination or go to a non-denominational church.  Failing the restoration of biblical orthodoxy in TEC and the ACC what we have in mind is the reformation of the whole communion on a conciliar and confessional foundation rather than seeking the approval of whoever the British Prime minister chooses to occupy St Augustine’s chair. If ++Cantuar wishes to be part of a renewed orthodox global communion that would be wonderful but not essential to true Anglicanism defined theologically rather than institutionally.

[135] Posted by emoyeni on 08-04-2007 at 10:26 PM • top

“To clarify, the Executive Council has not sued anyone.  There are several bishops and dioceses who are engaged in legal actions, but the EC has not filed any lawsuits on property issues. “

I hope that clarification wasn’t intended to imply that the Executive Council doesnt share responsibility for the lawsuits along with the PB. Its pure nonsense to suggest that is the case.

[136] Posted by Going Home on 08-04-2007 at 10:35 PM • top

It would be more accurate to refer to two ecclesiologies: institutionalist ecclesiology for what Sarah calls comcons and biblical ecclesiology for those she terms fed cons.

This explains why so-called comcons such as Radner, the ACI and some conservative bishops reserve for their fellow conservatives (who differ on strategy but who share the same theology) a degree of savage vitriol and vindictiveness not expended on their common enemies with whom they share an ecclesiology. The institution trumps biblical faithfulness, according to the rules of their game.

I give two Major Thumbs Up and my two Big Toes Up for the best comment on this thread so far to emoyeni!  Outstanding, incisive, clear, penetrating-to-the-core analysis!  Wow!  (Wish I would have wrote that.)

[137] Posted by Truth Unites... and Divides on 08-04-2007 at 10:50 PM • top

montanan :

Having divested myself from being head to toe in dirt, I finally got through the rest of Sarah’s article. It was excellent, as usual.

Sarah - you continue to be amazing.

I hope that the ABC will be Godly and a good man and do what is right and save the Communion.  Loosing your good sense, ability to write, and sound judgment would be a great loss.  I hope you CONTINUE to be an Anglican.

We must pray that the ABC will do what is right - even if the chances are small - God works through small chances.

[138] Posted by Eclipse on 08-04-2007 at 11:24 PM • top

Dear Sarah,
You wrote: “I merely made the assertion that ComCons believe it to be the most workable way.”  Perhaps this more pragmatic argument is what you believe, but stauncher comcons like Radner, I think, believe that as a matter of principle one should not leave TEC.  Radner is not making a pragmatic judgment that it is the most workable way.  I take this from Radner’s statement that the prophets did not start a new Israel, they spoke boldy of the need for reform, suffered at the hands of the ungodly but never left to start a new church. 
If this is Radner’s position, how can he justify the existence of the Anglican Communion which came about (most charitable view, there are others) because some believed the Roman Church had deviated from the Gospel and a new church must be formed to prolcaim it. 
It seems to me that if you are not going back to Rome, then you must take the Reformation path and declare that TEC is proclaiming another gospel and the true Gospel should be proclaimed in a new church that adheres to the essentials.  The modernists in TEC are far more off the path of the Gospel than the Roman church.  Thus, the Reformation is justifiable, the new reformed anglican church in the U.S. is justifiable. 
To stab at it once more, Radner is saying one as a matter of principle should never leave the Anglican communion that was launched by leaving the Roman church.  This is a profound inconsistency.

[139] Posted by morningsideanglican on 08-05-2007 at 04:01 AM • top

Sarah makes the charge the state of the Common Cause/Network organization(s) is in disarray. Evidence? Everybody who attended the meeting said that it went over wonderfully. More importantly, in the final comment of the final wrap up press conference, I was struck by Bp Ackerman’s words (reallly do watch the entire video). He talked not about any issue but his joy of seeing the love of the Lord in the words and hearts of the participants.

How firm a foundation, ye saints of the Lord,
is laid for your faith in his excellent word!
What more can he say than to you he hath said,
to you that for refuge to Jesus have fled?

“Fear not, I am with thee; O be not dismayed!
For I am thy God, and will still give thee aid;
I’ll strengthen thee, help thee, and cause thee to stand,
upheld by my righteous, omnipotent hand.

A while back Hosea, got mad here about how us fedcon’s had too little faith that the Lord could not repair the TEC and AC. The Lord appears to be not repairing the TEC/AC but raising up a new communion.

Father Ephraim has talked about the epicenter of Christianity has moved from Israel to Rome to northern Europe to America and now to the the Global South. The light of Christ is shining forth from places like Uganda and South Korea. ABp Orombi talked about the British hegemony is over in the Anglican church. The Anglican communion as an organization needed to reflect this reality.

Stand (firm) with those who stand with the risen Christ.

[140] Posted by rob-roy on 08-05-2007 at 04:51 AM • top

emoyeni, I cannot tell whether you deliberately and knowingly submitted something so incoherent, with the terms changed mid-stream, or accidentally.

When you say this: “It would be more accurate to refer to two ecclesiologies: institutionalist ecclesiology for what Sarah calls comcons and biblical ecclesiology for those she terms fed cons. The former eclesiology is shared by both revisionists and those conservatives who will never be prepared to exercise biblical disipline against TEC” you are incorrect on several counts.  First, you beg the question by simply and neatly claiming that your position is the “biblical” ecclesiology.  Of course, ComCons disagree with that assertion.

Second, of course ComCons are perfectly willing to “exercise biblical discipline” . . . through the organization of which they are a part, called the Anglican Communion.  And they are even willing to leave the Anglican Communion should such discipline not be exercised.  It is my understanding that even Dr. Radner, should the Anglican Communion fracture, will seek another place—only . . . not with the FedCons.

RE: “They define the Anglican Communion in terms of geographical boundires, canons and the approval of whoever occupies the see of Canterbury . These are all mere human conventions.”

No, emoyeni, the Anglican Communion itself, as an organization, defines ITSELF in that way.  And yes, these are all mere human conventions . . . because it is human conventions that come up with *organizations*.

RE: “The latter ( who favour biblical ecclesiology) define Anglicanisim in terms of theology. . . “

And there is where you make your shift of terms.  Is this deliberate?  Anglicanism can well be defined in terms of theology—but NOT the Anglican Communion, which in fact was what you were originally speaking of when you were describing the ComCon take.

So why, emoyeni, did you use one term to describe what the ComCons were seeking, then shift to the other term to describe what the FedCons were seeking and compare the two as if you used the same term?

emoyeni, you will, as a FedCon, someday be able to form the organization you wish, as the human instrument that carries Anglicanism for you here on earth. 

RE: “Those of us who have left TEC/ACC (Anglican Church of Canada) in favour of submitting to godly oversight from overseas have done so precisely because we value the wider communion and sought a vehicle through which we could remain a part of it when it would be so much easier to start or join a new denomination or go to a non-denominational church.”

No, emoyeni, you left the Canadian church because you did not approve of it [which is understandable] and because you valued certain provinces only of the wider communion and wished to be connected to one of them. 

RE: “Failing the restoration of biblical orthodoxy in TEC and the ACC what we have in mind is the reformation of the whole communion on a conciliar and confessional foundation. . . “

No, you do not wish to restore “biblical orthodoxy in TEC and the ACC”—you have departed from those organizations, and wish to begin your own.  And you will certainly not “reform” “the whole communion” since you have departed that organization, which is a “mere human convention” remember, in order to create your own organization.

I am happy for you, emoyeni, and wish you success.  But I am saddened that you were not honest in the above statement.  A human organization, such as what you wish to build to contain Anglicanism, will not prosper based on that kind of abuse of the English language.

[141] Posted by Sarah on 08-05-2007 at 05:51 AM • top

morningsideanglican,

You’re right that many of the ComCons make theological arguments for not leaving the Anglican Communion.

Some are Anglo-Catholic and have a different idea of the church than I, for instance.  Others, like Dr. Radner, do make arguments that compare the prophets of Israel with members of a church.

But even Dr. Radner has been on record at this blog as saying that he does have limits, and one of those limits appears to be the dissolution of the Anglican Communion, at which point he would seek another place. 

I also do think that some of even Dr. Radner’s arguments are “pragmatic”—most ComCons think that the FedCons system is unworkable.  They may not argue that, but behind some of the actions of ComCons is the old basic human standard of “I got no place to go”.

[142] Posted by Sarah on 08-05-2007 at 05:56 AM • top

RE: “Sarah makes the charge the state of the Common Cause/Network organization(s) is in disarray. Evidence?”

RobRoy.  Yikes.  I made no such charge.

I made the statement that ComCons believe [overwhelmingly, from my conversations, although I’m sure some ComCons believe differently] that the different partners in Common Cause are “pathologically sick, weak, dysfunctional, and crazy” . . .

But that does not prevent meetings and “the love of the Lord” from being much displayed, as I am certain that it was!  I have been in such meetings, RobRoy, over the past 4 years.  I’ve attended both regional and national Network meetings—spoken at some, and gone as a participant—and you are very right: they are filled with joy and love and wonderful worship and teaching.

Even individuals who are “pathologically sick, weak, dysfunctional, and crazy” may be full of joy and love—and certainly I am not speaking of individuals, but organizations.  I am confident that wherever one goes in the Continuum, and in many places in ECUSA, there is much joy and love and wonderful meetings and great worship.  But those are, manifestly, not the “measuring sticks” of whether a body or organization is “healthy” and stable enough to be involved in significantly intensified relationships.

This is not an argument thread—I have carefully described the differences between FedCons and ComCons, but I do not have the time to go into all the experience, theology, and ecclesiology of either side—but surely you can look around at the ECUSA orthodox and acknowledge what I have said.  As to the other players, RobRoy . . . all I can say is that I suggest that you do a lot of research and watching and involvement.  For instance, RobRoy . . . do you know the priests and congregants of the APA and REC parishes in your diocese?  It would behoove you to, since as a FedCon you will be a part of that.  These will be your very close allies and partners in the future and they are easily findable on the web.  Back when I was carefully planning to what place I would depart, in the even of fracture, I surfed at least 40 or so different Continuing church organization web sites—and found ALL of the parishes that were in my diocese.  And since those days I have done even more research.  There are numerous web sites, Wikipedia articles, and even Dr. Tighe’s excellent article, where you can find lists of web sites so that you can do your own research.  I trust that you have already done so, anyway.

But it’s really not my place to make you think like a ComCon, RobRoy.  ; > )  You will decide what you wish, based on whatever evidence that you need for your decision-making. 

I assure you that I have decided, based on the evidence that I have carefully gathered—enough for me.

[143] Posted by Sarah on 08-05-2007 at 06:09 AM • top

Folks, I see that this thread has turned into a FedCon and ComCon debate—which I guess is not surprising.  But we have hashed through all the arguments repeatedly on this site on other threads, so there is no need to do so on this one.  I wrote the article understanding and granting that ComCons disagree with the premises of FedCons, and FedCons disagree with the premises of ComCons.

I’m shutting this thread down but I have greatly enjoyed the discussion.  I think it has been courteous on both sides, taking into account the great differences we have on these admittedly less-than-gospel issues.

See you—perhaps—on the fields of battle.  Or maybe on the trail to the mountains or the forests.

[144] Posted by Sarah on 08-05-2007 at 06:14 AM • top

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