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Tuesday Afternoon: Live-blog of the floor debate (we’re in…)

Tuesday, September 25, 2007 • 1:14 pm


Every member of the Joint Standing Committee with the exception of Canon James Rosenthall has already departed. He stepped into the press room a moment ago and answered some questions informally.

He said that the statement being prepared for debate after lunch clearly answers all three requests of the primates. The document, he suggested, would meet with wide approval

Another source suggested that the house was, overall, pleased with the draft and the general sense was that it provides “clear answers.” I asked this person whether they would satisfy the Primates. His reply: “Not likely”

We’ll see. This is the thread to watch. I will be posting the live-blog of the floor debate here.

....................................................................................................................................

Bishops are filing back into the room. I am presently seated right next to the entance to the grand hallway leading to the grand-ballroom where the bishops meet. There is some suggestion that we will be looking at a heavily edited version of the original draft document presented by the drafting committee. The rumor about Bishops Stanton, Howe, Bruno and Chane drafting the resolution, may have been, as I warned, a rumor. It appears they are still working on the original doc, but heavily edited…

The bishops are still meeting in closed session…longer than expected..

....................................................................................................

We are still waiting here. It is 3:13pm CST. That means that they’ve been in closed session four about 45 minutes. I do not know what is happening. The press people are quite anxious. Canon Rosenthall is walking through the press gaggle, smiling, shaking hands. 

...................................................................................................................

Mr. Schori, nice guy by the way, just asked an 815 “media coordinator” how long it will be. She had just emerged from the HOB chamber.  “I don’t know,” she shrugged, “A little while…” It’s now almost an hour since the bishops went in closed session.

Okay, the drafting commitee chair (+Wayne Wright I believe?) just emerged escorted by an 815 handler, headed back to a room down the hall…could be to do some editing…or printing/copying…he had his laptop open and was staring at the screen as he walked…

Here’s Kendall’s intell posted on titusonenine:

The sections cover a lot of interesting topics: Gene Robinson coming to Lambeth, for example, and boundary crossings. I hear that some of the language is so controversial the final form MAY need to be voted on by section.

——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

The press is now sitting on the floor. Patience is wearing thin. Jonathan Petre is walking around. Canon Rosenthall is still here in the room as are a number of bishops’ aids, apparently they have been exiled along with the press…and I just realize that I’ve been borishly sitting on one of the only chairs here. I’m moving to the carpet. 

______________________________________________________________-

Okay, we’re in. I have a chair next to the power. The bishops are on break for 15 and then they’ll be back. I am going to try to get a hold of the dock. I’ll be back in 5

—————————————————————————————————————————————————————-

No dice, the document is not out yet but here is this from TLC:

Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori and the other members of the joint steering committee of primates and the Anglican Consultative Council (ACC) met late into the night Monday discussing language on the eight or so bullet points which might constitute an acceptable response from Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams and the primates.

...

Archbishop Williams left New Orleans Sept. 21 to begin a pastoral visit in Armenia. All of the invited international visitors departed Tuesday morning with the exception of the Rev. Jim Rosenthal, director of communication for the ACC. Deacon Rosenthal said Archbishop Williams has already been briefed by representatives of the joint steering committee on the substance of the joint steering committee report to him.

Meanwhile Bishop Jefferts Schori has been meeting most of the day in private session with the bishops trying to obtain their consent on the wording developed during the joint steering committee meeting last night. Not all of the suggested changes have been received with universal enthusiasm from the bishops, and some have said they expect that at least some of the proposed changes may require an up-or-down vote….more

Okay, bishops are returning…still no doc

Calling the house to order.

KJS: I think we have a resolution from two committees, one dealing on “context” and the other on Racism:

Rabb: Distributed earlier was a res to be presented to the US congress dated sept 20th 2007. The commuitee on racism endorses this and I would like to move it

Second

KJS: Should we read it?

No

Curry: The sentence on the second page that starts…the Deep South has a history…I think maybe saying “we in our country…”

All in favor

Uninmous assemt


KJS: DO we have the contextual resolution: that should be read

A bishop stands up to make a point of order about the issue of racism. Brings up the Jena controversy. Says that he experienced a deep seeded racism in Jena that is so deep that the people do not know it exists. But he could see it. THat is the way it isin many parts of the country. Let us do more as a church to deal wiht this, he says.

I’ll hold until these resolutions are over. There is alot of tension in the room.

KJS:Let me offer my reflections as the printer does its work. We gatered here in this place called NO in the aftermath of katrina and we ahve seen continuing racism and poverty and the long history of those here. We have seen teh rebuilding efforts and we go home transformed by that experience. They already are transformed by that experience. IT is our witness and presence that will make an impact over a ling time. I want to thank those of you who took part. This will allow people to have help and shelter adn food and help for congregations. This will be an ongoing thing.

The plannoin committee framed this meeting inthe context ofmission. our visitors were invited to eb in mission with us. They were part of our work and life here. We heard the echoes of our common mission throought our meeting. we are interconnected and interdependent. If one is ignored or shut out we all are. This has been an experience of rememberring in the rich sense of htat word. I give thanks for hte work we have done in reaching consensus. THat is a remarkable thing and we will confirm that in a few monments.

AS we go forward and proclaim this consensus we will do it in mission.

I hope you will share all of these things with your dioceses and also what it is like to be interdependent in mission and in life. God has blessed us with an amaxing community called TEC.

Applause…scattered

We have people to thank, our media briefers. I’ve heard wonderful things. WE thank the staff…those in my office, and in the commo office. Our chaplains, translation team,

Thank you to everyone

Applause:...

David Reed: You are a great group and I say that as a bishop who has sat through these meetings for a number of years…

Long standing Ovation

Quesiton: I also think we should thank the mission that made the prayer shawls….

Applause

KJS: We are waiting for the writing committee to return.

Question: I think it would be appropriate for us to make a statement about those who are dying in Iraq. I think it is important to express our support and to call for our troops to return. I ask that we add it to our already existing statement in the appropriate place

Second

KJS: All in favor

Unanimous yes:

Now they are dealing with some more mundane issues…everyone is waiting for the drafting committee to return…the drafting chair has entered….

Wright: When we met earlier you asked us to raft two docs 1. Describing our experiences here. 2. Responding to our Angican partners. We have spent the last days perfecting the response document.

First we will hear the Document describing our experiences (the context document)

A message from the bishops of the Episocpal Church

Greetigns in the name of our Lord and Savor Jesus Christ. We gathr in solidarity with the people if the GC region. We also have a deep desire to rebuild trust with our AC partners. This is what we are called to in our baptism. We have witnessed the renewal and rebuilding here in NO. We give thanks to God for the ongoing work of reconciliation also taking place in the AC. We express our thanks to our international guests who have honored and assisted us in our discernment which has reminded us of the gift of unity. We also thank God for the string ministry of KJS. Our shared experience strengthens our passionate commitment to remain full members of the AC. Our experience was rich. We are grateful for the warm hospitality shown to us here and moved by their efforts in the wake of Katrina . Through our work and conversation we were able to experience these challeneges first hand. One of the highlights of our week was the ecumenical service.

…this document is largely providing context for the second document. All of the fluff is in this one essentially. You can get a flavor for it. I’m going to save my fingers. 

Here is the ending

While we acknowledge that we are not of one mind in all things we strive to be of one herart. Our PB reminded us that to go forward we were going to need to cooperate with the Spirit. This will require sacrifice for all. Communion requires that we all come to the foot of the cross.

The spirit of this meeting was good. We are thoughtful of the prayers around us and the blessings of all the men, women and children around the church.

Applause

KJS: Can I understand this applause as an acceptance by acclamation

YES

Done

KJS: Are we ready for the other document yet?

NO

KJS: Okay well why don’t we read out the resolution having to do with racism

We are getting a full draft. It will be up word for word momentarily:

House of Bishops of The Episcopal Church New Orleans, Louisiana

September 25, 2007

A Response to Questions and Concerns Raised by our Anglican Communion
Partners:

In accordance with Our Lord’s high priestly prayer that we be one, and
in the spirit of Resolution ” A159 of the 75th General Convention, and
in obedience to his Great Commission to go into the world and make
disciples, and in gratitude for the gift of the Anglican Communion as a
sign c?f the Holy Spirit’s ongoing work of reconciliation throughout the
world, we offer the following to The Episcopal Church, the Primates, the
Anglican Consultative Council (ACC), and the larger Communion, with
the hope of “mending the tear in the fabric” of our common life in
Christ. :

“I do it all for the sake of the Gospel so that I might share in its
blessings.” 1 Corinthians 9: 19, 13.

Introduction

The House of Bishops expresses sincere and heartfelt thanks to the
Archbishop of Canterbury and members of the Joint Standing Committee of the
Anglican Consultative Council and the, Primates for accepting our
invitation to join us in New Orleans. By their presence they have both
honored us and assisted us in our discernment. Their presence was a living
reminder of the unity that is Christ’s promised gift in the power of
the Holy Spirit.

Much of our meeting time was spent in continuing discernment of our
relationships within the Anglican Communion. We engaged in careful
listening and straightforward dialogue with ommguests. We expressed our
passionate desire to remain in communion. It is our conviction that The
Episcopal Church needs the Anglican Communion, and we heard from our
guests"that the ’ Anglican Communion needs The Episcopal Church.

The House of Bishops offers the following responses to our Anglican,
Communion partners. We believe they provide clarity and point toward next
steps in an ongoing process of dialogue. Within The Episcopal Church
the common discernment of God’s call is a lively partnership: among
laypersons, bishops, priests, and deacons, and therefore necessarily
includes the Presiding Bishop, the Executive Council, and the General
Convention.

 

50 Summary

51

52 • We reconfirm that resolution B033 of General Convention 2006 (The
Election Of

53 Bishops) calls upon bishops with jurisdiction and Standing
Committees “to exercise

54 restraint by not consenting to the consecration of any candidate to
the episcopate whos.e

55 manner of life presents a challenge to the wider church and will
lead to further strains on

56 ·communion.”

57 • We pledge as a body not to authorize public rites for the blessing
of same-sex unions.

58 • We commend our Presiding Bishop’s plan for episcopal visitors.

59 • We deplore incursions into our jurisdictions by uninvited bishops
and call for them to·

60 end.

61 • We support the Presiding Bishop in seeking communion-wide
consultation in a manner

62 that is in accord with our Constitution and Canons.

63 • We call for increasing implementation of the listening process
across the Communion

64 and for a report on its progress to Lambeth 2008.

65 • We support the Archbishop of Canterbury in his expressed desire to
explore ways for the

66 Bishop of New Hampshire to participate in the Lambeth Conference.

67 • We call for unequivocal and active commitment to the civil rights,
safety, and dignity of

68 gay and lesbian persons.

69

70 Discussion

71

72 Re~olU1ion B033 of the 2006 General Convention

7.3

74 The House of Bishops concurs with Resolution ECO 11 of the Executive
Council. This Resol\;ltion 75 commends the Report of the Communion
Sub-Group of the Joint Standing Committee of the 76 Anglican Consultative
Council and the Primates of the Anglican Communion as an accurate 77
evaluation of Resolution B033 of the 2006 General Convention, calling
upon bishops ·with 78 jurisdiction and Standing Committees “to exercise
restraint by not consenting to the consecration 79 of any candidate to
the episcopate whose manner of life presents a challenge to the wider
church 80 and will lead to further strains on communion. ,,! The House
acknowledges that non-celibate gay 81 and lesbian persons are included
among those to whom B033 pertains.

82

83 Blessing of Same-Sex Unions

84

85 We, the members of the House of Bishops, pledge not to authorize for
use in our dioceses any 86 public rites of blessing of same-sex unions
until a broader consensus emerges in the

87 Communion, or until General Convention takes further action. In the
near future we hope to:OO 88 able to draw upon the benefits of the
Communion-wide listening process. In the meantime, it is 89 important to
note that no rite of blessing for persons living in same-sex unions has
been adopted 90 or approved by our General Convention. In addition to
not having authorized liturgies the

I The Communion Sub-~up noted that “the resolution uses the language of
‘restraint’ • and the group no~ that there has been considerable
discussion since General Convention about the exact force of that word. By
requiring that the restraint must be expressed in a particular way - ‘by
not consenting ... ‘. however. the resolution is calling for a precise
response, which complies with the force of the recommendation of the
Windsor Report.” The group also noted “that while the Windsor Report
restricted its recommendation to candidates for the episcopate who .were
living in a same gender union, the resolution at General Convention
widened this stricture to apply to a range of lifestyles which present a
wider challenge. The group welcomed this widening of the principle, which
was also recommended by the Windsor Report, and commend it to the
Communion.”

~003

2

...

91 majority of bishops do not make allowance for the blessing of
same-sex unions. We do note that

92 in May 2003 the Primates said we have a pastoral duty “to respond
with love and understandiqg

93 to people of all sexual orientations.” They further stated, ” ...
[I]t is necessary to maintain a

94 breadth of private response to situations of individual pastoral
care.”

95

96 Episcopal Visitors

97

98 We affirm the Presiding Bishop’s plan to appoint episcopal visitors
for dioceses that request ,

99 alternative oversight. Such oversight would be provided by bishops
who are a part of and subJect

100 to the communal life of this province. We believe this plan is
consistent with and analogous to

101 Delegated Episcopal Pastoral Oversight (DEPO) as affirmed by the
Windsor Report (paragraph

102 152). We thank those bishops who have generously offered themselves
for this ministry. We ;

103 hope that dioceses will make use of this plan and that the
Presiding Bishop will continue .

104 conversation with those dioceses that may feel the need for such
ministries. We appreciate and

105 need to hear all voices in The Episcopal Church.

106

107 Incursions by Uninvited Bishops

108

109 We call for an immediate end to diocesan incursions by uninvited
bishops in accordance with the

110 Windsor Report and consistent with the statements of past Lambeth
Conferences and the

111’ Ecumenical Councils of the Church. Such incursions imperil common
prayer and long-

112 established ecclesial principles of our Communion. These principles
include respect for local!

113 jurisdiction and recognition of the geographical boundaries of
dioceses and provinces. As w~

114 continue to commit ourselves to honor both the spirit and the
content of the Windsor Report,;we

115 call upon those provinces and bishops engaging in such incursions
likewise to honor the Windsor

116 Report by ending them. We offer assurance that delegated episcopal
pastoral care is being

117 provided for those who seek it.

118

119 . Communion-wide Consultation 120

121 In their communique of February 2007, the Primates proposed a
“pastoral scheme.” At our .

122 meeting in March 2007, we expressed our deep concern that this
scheme would compromise the

123 authority of our own primate and place the autonomy of The
Episcopal Church at risk. The :

124 Executive Council reiterated our concerns and declined to
participate. Nevertheless, we

125 recognize a useful role for communion-wide consultation with
respect to the pastoral needs of

126 those seeking alternative oversight, as well as the pastoral needs
of gay and lesbian persons in

127 this and other provinces. We encourage our Presiding Bishop to
continue to explore such

128 consultation in a manner that is in accord with our Constitution
and Canons.

129

130 The Listening Process

131

132 The 1998 Lambeth Conference called all the provinces of the
Anglican Communion to engage in

133 a “listening process” designed to bring gay and lesbian Anglicans
fully into the Church’s

134 conversation about human sexuality. We look forward to receiving
initial reports about thiS’

135 process at the 2008 Lambeth Conference and to participating with
others in this crucial

136 enterprise. We are aware that in some cultural contexts
conversation concerning homosexuality

137 is difficult. We see an important role for the Anglican
Consultative Council (ACC) in this.

138 listening process, since it represents both the lay and ordained
members of our constituent

139 churches, and so is well-placed to engage every part of the body in
this conversation. We .

3

09/25/2007 16:59 FAX 504 523 7310

HOTEL INTERCONTINENTAL

140 encourage the ACe to identify the variety of resources needed to
accomplish these

141 conversations.

142

143 The Lambeth Conference

144

145 Invitations to the Lambeth Conference are extended by the
Archbishop of Canterbury. Those

146 among us who have received an invitation to attend the 2008 Lambeth
Conference look forwaId

147 to that gathering with hope and expectation. Many of us are engaged
in mission partnerships with

148 bishops and dioceses around the world and cherish these
relationships. Lambeth offers a

149 wonderful opportunity to build on such partnerships.

150

151 We are mindful that the Bishop of New Hampshire has not yet
received an invitation to the

152 conference. We also note that the Archbishop of Canterbury has
expressed a desire to explore ‘a

153 way for him to participate. We share the Archbishop’s desire and
encourage our Presiding

154 Bishop to offer our assistance as bishops in this endeavor. It is
our fervent hope that a way can be

155 found for his full participation.

156

157 Justice and Dignity for Gay and Lesbian Persons

158

159 It is of fundamental importance that, as we continue to seek
consensus in matters of human

160 sexuality, we also be clear and outspoken in our shared
comrrtitment to establish and protect the

161 civil rights of gay and lesbian persons, and to name and oppose at
every turn any action or policy

162 that does violence to them, encourages violence toward them, or
violates their dignity as children

163 of God. We call all our partners in the Anglican Communion to
recommit to this effort. As w¢

164 stated at the conclusion of our meeting in March 2007: “We proclaim
the Gospel of what 00(,‘1

165 has done and is doing in Christ, of the dignity of every human
being, and of justice, compassiion

166 and peace. We proclaim the Gospel that in Christ there is no Jew or
Greek, no male or female,

167 no slave or free. We proclaim the Gospel that in Christ all God’s
children, including women~ are

168 full and equal participants in the life of Christ’s Church. We
proclaim the Gospel that in Christ

169 all God’s children, including gay and lesbian believers, are full
and equal participants in the l!ife

170 of Christ’s Church. We proclaim the Gospel that stands against any
violence, including violence

171 done to women and children as well as those who are persecuted
because of their differences,

172 often in the name of God.”

@005

 

KJS: Is it your sense that this incorporates our discussion?

YES

Duncan: THis is a question about all voices being heard..Bill love made this point. it is in line 104 and 105

NJ: I realize I am going to be voted down. I want to delete the word “until a broader consensus emerges”

NO

Wolfe: I am worried about voting on this in consensus

KJS: Would you like to vote or recieve this by consensus

mixed

KJS: Let’s vote. All in favor of this?

Aye

No (I only heard one voice)

Okay,

The resolution above is not yet corrected. We faxed it out and had it scanned, so what you see above is word for word as it was scanned. lines 1-50 were fluff.

The text will be corrected and fully posted momentarily

There was only one change and that was a change in the wording, not hte content.

The only objection was by Bishop Wolfe who did not think that this was the way to proceed.

Again, I only heard one voice raised in objection.

house in recess until march
———————————————————————————————————————————————————
more up now


267 Comments • Print-friendlyPrint-friendly w/commentsShare on Facebook
Comments:

‘I asked this person whether they would satisfy the Primates. His reply: “Not likely”’

Ahhhh, an honest answer.

Thanks for the excellent effort on the live reports. They are greatly appreciated.

[1] Posted by Fisherman on 09-25-2007 at 01:28 PM • top

Common Cause here we come! I am sure that it will be a much better meeting. And I have to say that I am not surprised that what will be coming out of this is not likely to satisfy the Primates. But, what I am curious about is how in his (Canon Rosenthall) saying that…. he can say this:

The document, he suggested, would meet with wide approval

[2] Posted by TLDillon on 09-25-2007 at 01:32 PM • top

Wide approval from whom?

Seriously, what did Canon Rosenthall mean? The HOB?

from the Briar Patch,

[3] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 09-25-2007 at 01:34 PM • top

One assumes that they mean wide approval within the House of Bishops…nothing surprising about that.

[4] Posted by johnp on 09-25-2007 at 01:38 PM • top

I’m hoping it’s not: 

RESOLVED: um, what we said at General Convention.  Amen.

[5] Posted by Cindy T. in TX on 09-25-2007 at 01:40 PM • top

Matt+,
I thought they were going back into Executive Session when they got back for a short time?

[6] Posted by Rocks on 09-25-2007 at 01:42 PM • top

I hope they don’t forget to mention the prayer stoles…

[7] Posted by Rocks on 09-25-2007 at 01:44 PM • top

Give ‘em enough prayer stoles…they’ll hang themselves.

[8] Posted by midwestnorwegian on 09-25-2007 at 01:54 PM • top

OK.  Knock it off about the shawls.  I’ve got pointy needles and I’m not afraid to use them.

[9] Posted by Cindy T. in TX on 09-25-2007 at 01:56 PM • top

Like Sand Through The Hourglass, So Are The Days Of Our Lives….

[10] Posted by Rocks on 09-25-2007 at 01:58 PM • top

Spin, spin Rosenthal, spin, spin, spin.

It’s clear where the sympathies of the ACO lie (and where the money comes from).

[11] Posted by Peter O on 09-25-2007 at 02:02 PM • top

The closed session is only for 15 minutes…it is not going to last long. The open session should begin at 2:45

[12] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 09-25-2007 at 02:05 PM • top

Thanks Matt.  Has anybody been talking, maybe giving some of the flavor, if not the content, of these closed sessions?

[13] Posted by R S Bunker on 09-25-2007 at 02:07 PM • top

There is more talk than I can responsibly pass on even under the “rumor” label. Things may not be as unified as we have been hearing in the press room.

[14] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 09-25-2007 at 02:16 PM • top

“Clear answers” combined with the Primates not liking the answers = Camp Allen II: Return of The Middle Finger.  We’ll see soon enough, I guess.

[15] Posted by Phil on 09-25-2007 at 02:16 PM • top

If Kendall is correct about the drafting committee, this ought to be interesting:

From what we gather from reporting this morning, these are the four bishops who comprised the drafting committee of the statement that will be presented to the HoB this afternoon:
+Jon Bruno (Los Angeles),
+John Howe, (Central FL),
+ John Chane, (Washington, DC) and
+ James Stanton (Dallas)

[16] Posted by Brad Drell on 09-25-2007 at 02:19 PM • top

I find this to be interesting.  According to TLC, Howe and Wolf (both CA bishops) are on the drafting committee along with liberal-ideologue extremists Sauls and Bruno.  They are working on Jenkins’ original resolution, which was essentially the Dar resolution, and which had been worked over by Chane and Bruno.

We are told that the whole HoB will be happy with this, that it won’t satisfy the Primates, and we know that CA bishops have been given strong representation on the drafting committee.

I have long argued that we need to analyze any resolution to this mess on two axes:  the x axis being doctrinal conformity (i.e. SSB’s and bishop selection); and the y axis being alternative episcopal oversight (AEO) for the orthodox.

If this resolution doesn’t provide for either, then why call it a modified Jenkins resolution?  It clearly would have no connection to what Jenkins proposed.  And why would they have bothered to replace yesterday’s resolution with something that said the same thing?

We know that the resolution will not satisfy the primates.  We know that TEC will not conform doctrinally.  That makes me think that there needs to be some significant movement in the area of AEO.  Howe was added to the drafting committee, and this after he proposed a resolution earlier that focused entirely on redefining AEO while leaving TEC to wallow in its doctrinal heresy.

I can’t see that Howe would sully himself with KJS’s pathetic rewarmed hash of DEPO.  I am wondering if TEC is willing to make a real stab at permitting some form of realignment or AEO.

I doubt it, but at this point, I don’t see any other possibility.

[17] Posted by jamesw on 09-25-2007 at 02:19 PM • top

+Bruno, +Howe, +Chane, & +Stanton?????  Theological WHIPLASH!  Brad, get ready to chase some ambulances.

[18] Posted by Cindy T. in TX on 09-25-2007 at 02:21 PM • top

This has got to worry the ACI.  I thought their vision was a “voice crying in the wilderness.”  Dr. Seitz posted about an endgame with a strong minority report.  Looks like the KJS gameplan is to co-opt the ACI’s own voice. 

And now for the wording . . .

[19] Posted by Paladin1789 on 09-25-2007 at 02:31 PM • top

Bruno has to be on the committee because he’s the principal power behind Mrs. Schori (and the principal author of the NO! resolutions the HoB passed last March).  Chane has to be on the committee because he’s the loudest mouth.  Stanton and Howe are both prominent CA bishops who have nonetheless supported 815’s Dennis Canon line.

Anyone else on the committee is just there for decoration.

[20] Posted by Craig Goodrich on 09-25-2007 at 02:36 PM • top

According to what I just read at T19, the four drafting bishops information is incorrect.  No news on who is on the comittee or who is not, just not those four listed.

YBIC,
Phil Snyder

[21] Posted by Philip Snyder on 09-25-2007 at 02:36 PM • top

I hear Aretha Franklin in the background;“Chane, chane, chane, chane;
Chane of fools…”

[22] Posted by BillS on 09-25-2007 at 02:39 PM • top

<blockquote> Things may not be as unified as we have been hearing in the press room.

</blockquote>

I nominate this sentence for the Understatement of the Day.

from the Briar Patch,

[23] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 09-25-2007 at 02:39 PM • top

On the question as to satisfying the primates…. Do you think he understood you to mean all the primates or a specific group?

[24] Posted by EmilyH on 09-25-2007 at 02:48 PM • top

Maybe the 4 bishops was correct but after Bruno’s faux paux they wanted to get his name off anything that need credibility?

[25] Posted by Rocks on 09-25-2007 at 02:52 PM • top

Maybe the 4 bishops was correct but after Bruno’s faux paux they wanted to get his name off anything that need credibility?

And they left Chane on, what was his answer to that question going to be?  The don’t happen in the Dio of Washington?  Yeah Right.

RSB

[26] Posted by R S Bunker on 09-25-2007 at 02:55 PM • top

Sadly, his faux pas probably would have earned him a place if he’s not already there. That’s faux pas wa Pure TEC.

[27] Posted by oscewicee on 09-25-2007 at 02:56 PM • top

Chane was smart enough to avoid the press conference…

[28] Posted by Rocks on 09-25-2007 at 02:58 PM • top

C’mon dude, type faster.  Like, I gotta get to work!  (Keep typing Matt+, 1057 of us are waiting)

[29] Posted by usma87 on 09-25-2007 at 02:58 PM • top

So, I guess the 15 min closed door session has extended a little long, wonder if Matt can hear any chairs being thrown?

RSB

[30] Posted by R S Bunker on 09-25-2007 at 02:59 PM • top

Did they put a black hood over Matt+ and drag him from the room?

[31] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 03:00 PM • top

I think we’re going to test the server capacity.  1100 on line and growing.

[32] Posted by usma87 on 09-25-2007 at 03:01 PM • top

And I just emailed a bunch of people, telling them to tune in…

[33] Posted by more martha than mary on 09-25-2007 at 03:04 PM • top

If Kendall is correct about the drafting committee, this ought to be interesting:

From what we gather from reporting this morning, these are the four bishops who comprised the drafting committee of the statement that will be presented to the HoB this afternoon:
+Jon Bruno (Los Angeles),
+John Howe, (Central FL),
+ John Chane, (Washington, DC) and
+ James Stanton (Dallas)

This has been removed from T19 for inaccuracy, according to elfgirl.

[34] Posted by Connie Sandlin on 09-25-2007 at 03:06 PM • top

Did they put a black hood over Matt+ and drag him from the room?

Maybe they buried him in a pile of shawls

[35] Posted by James Manley on 09-25-2007 at 03:07 PM • top

If they forgot to mention the stoles then it must surely be because racism and classism.

[36] Posted by Rocks on 09-25-2007 at 03:09 PM • top

Now this is more like it.  I feel like my Army days….Hurry up and wait.  Maybe they’re deciding the Primates are right!?

[37] Posted by usma87 on 09-25-2007 at 03:10 PM • top

The bishops are still meeting in closed session…longer than expected

They will not come out till their plane leaves for Lambeth, problem solved! smile

[38] Posted by Rocks on 09-25-2007 at 03:11 PM • top

Maybe they had to determine if the stoles were inherently classist or racist? Expensive silk or wool used? Where did the yarn come from? Was it fair trade? Etc.

[39] Posted by oscewicee on 09-25-2007 at 03:13 PM • top

This is beginning to have all the ear marks of Tanzania and putting together the DES Communique. Arre we all prepared to hucker down for the day and part of the evening?

[40] Posted by TLDillon on 09-25-2007 at 03:13 PM • top

How can we be sure Our Lady of Litigation hasn’t offed Matt+ and someone from 815 is now sitting in for him at the laptop?

[41] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 03:14 PM • top

...modified Jenkins resolution?

You misheard the speaker. He (or she - really can’t tell in under the shawl) said it was a “stink’in solution”.

[42] Posted by Festivus on 09-25-2007 at 03:14 PM • top

Well, the fact that they came here to write the response just floors me.

I would think that the response would have been written and agreed to before the actual meeting.  Don’t these people talk to each other?

[43] Posted by Paul B on 09-25-2007 at 03:15 PM • top

Easy JK, the moment he types All is Well™ we know it can’t be Matt+!

[44] Posted by Rocks on 09-25-2007 at 03:16 PM • top

Or as it is now rumored, the “Limburger Solution”.

[45] Posted by Festivus on 09-25-2007 at 03:16 PM • top

How many press does it take to make a gaggle?

[46] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 09-25-2007 at 03:17 PM • top

Agree with jamesw above. Surely, they dont think that the Primates will accept such nonsense as was the “visiting Bishops[if thats what it was called]” fiasco, do they? If ECUSA wants to cut its losses and keep as much of what they have left intact, they will simply say that we cannot make truck with DES and so we will permit the creation of a parallel Anglican Body/province for North America. Any attempt at this point to fudge, kick the can down the road, wait for the next meeting, etc., will simply not cut the mustard this time. Most of us can plainly see this; but can the drafting committee/KJS? As astonishing as it may seem, I think the answer in their minds is “no”. So then, the response from the Common Cause partners must be one like that of Nehemiah, in all its steely resolve-despite the intrigue, mockery, and wiles of the enemy-until a ‘Wall’ is built, and a true ‘City on a hill’ is established therein.

[47] Posted by Bob K. on 09-25-2007 at 03:18 PM • top

I think they’re waiting each other out - who made the latest plane reservations?

[48] Posted by oscewicee on 09-25-2007 at 03:19 PM • top

Canon Rosenthall is walking through the press gaggle, smiling, shaking hands.

Be careful Matt+ of smiling faces with open hands!

[49] Posted by TLDillon on 09-25-2007 at 03:19 PM • top

Canon Rosenthall is walking through the press gaggle, smiling, shaking hands.

It won’t help Canon. If this is fudge TEC will get roasted in the press from left to right and back again. All is not well, even the reporter from the Braille Institute can see that.

[50] Posted by Rocks on 09-25-2007 at 03:19 PM • top

I need to seek comfort now by telling my sacred story to my ndaba group

[51] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 03:19 PM • top

I’m telling you, do not toy with the Knitter’s Lobby.  They’re packin’ double pointed needles, and they run with scissors.

[52] Posted by Cindy T. in TX on 09-25-2007 at 03:19 PM • top

This is all so pointless….everyone is going to do as they see right in their own eyes in the end…

seraph

[53] Posted by seraph on 09-25-2007 at 03:20 PM • top

Any momment a man in a scarlet cassock and a rapier will pop out the door - no one ever expects the Spanish Inquisition

RSB!

[54] Posted by R S Bunker on 09-25-2007 at 03:21 PM • top

C’mon, you can’t just say yes or no.  We must have the proper context for the nuanced tension we are called to live into.  BINGO!

[55] Posted by usma87 on 09-25-2007 at 03:22 PM • top

Cindy these were crocheted so we are off the hook….wink

[56] Posted by Rocks on 09-25-2007 at 03:22 PM • top

Patience, people! What the HOB is trying to do is very difficult.

Their answers, no they will not stop with same sex blessings, yes they will continue to consecrate active gay priests and bishops, and no they will not agree to a primatial vicar, must be made to look like yes, they will stop with the same sex blessings, no they will not consecrate actively gay priests and bishops, and yes they will agree to something close to a primatial vicar. It is very difficult for a large group to find the right words to say this with a straight face.

[57] Posted by BillS on 09-25-2007 at 03:23 PM • top

Cindy - nobody’s pok’in fun at you. Will you cut it out? Enough of the jabs. We get your point - no need to string this out. Stop needling us!

[58] Posted by Festivus on 09-25-2007 at 03:23 PM • top

Is the Jeopardy theme music playing or is that just in my head?

[59] Posted by Rocks on 09-25-2007 at 03:24 PM • top

Matt, once ever 1- minutes or so would you let us know u r OK?

[60] Posted by Fla Oblate on 09-25-2007 at 03:24 PM • top

I am sitting here knitting, no really knitting.  Do I need to keep refreshing the screen?  Where will the live blogging appear in the top or the comments section?

[61] Posted by EmilyH on 09-25-2007 at 03:24 PM • top

Cindy these were crocheted so we are off the hook….

Rocks,
That makes much more sense .....since they are doing the double crochet with their tongues.

[62] Posted by TLDillon on 09-25-2007 at 03:24 PM • top

Oops…I forgot to mention Constitution and Canons and Polity.  Shalom

[63] Posted by usma87 on 09-25-2007 at 03:25 PM • top

Can’t wait forever, my brothers and sisters, Bible study tonight.  I’ll be praying on my drive home.

[64] Posted by Zoomdaddy on 09-25-2007 at 03:25 PM • top

EmilyH, the live blog will appear in the top (grey) section. You will need to refresh ever few minutes. But don’t drop a stitch.

[65] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 09-25-2007 at 03:26 PM • top

usma87 - you forgot All Is Well, Tiny Loud Minority, God’s New Thing, and Squid.

RSB

[66] Posted by R S Bunker on 09-25-2007 at 03:27 PM • top

Anyone else notice how long it has been 3:13PM CST?  Well - we have been accused of living in a time warp.  Guess that explains it.

[67] Posted by DaveG on 09-25-2007 at 03:29 PM • top

Bob K (and others),
We do not want a parallel Anglican Province in America!!! We do not want to be tied to TEC and its Unitarian Universalist theology in any way.  If that means breaking with Canterbury….so be it.  Anglicanism is not rooted in Canterbury.

[68] Posted by Daniel Lozier on 09-25-2007 at 03:29 PM • top

Matt - “drafting commitee chair”  Who would that be?  don’t keep us in suspenders.

RSB

[69] Posted by R S Bunker on 09-25-2007 at 03:29 PM • top

Do I need to keep refreshing the screen?  Where will the live blogging appear in the top or the comments section?

Past practice has been to append the liveblog to the original post.  Yes you will hav to refresh to see it.

Pax Christi vobiscum,
Eluchil

[70] Posted by Eluchil on 09-25-2007 at 03:29 PM • top

If they don’t hurry, they are going to miss the 6Pm national news cycle.  Oh, wait, sorry.  Flashback to 1980.

There is no “new cycle” anymore.  It’s all news, all the time.

I remember graduating with a Broadcasting degree, and several of my classmates going up to Atlanta to interview with that cable thing.  Ted Turner.  Cable News something.  Anything ever come of that?

[71] Posted by Paul B on 09-25-2007 at 03:30 PM • top

he had his laptop open and was staring at the screen as he walked…

I think Matt+ walked by a mirror.

[72] Posted by Rocks on 09-25-2007 at 03:31 PM • top

Just sitting here waiting with my prayer shawl on humming “mothering God” . . .

[73] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 03:32 PM • top

It is at times like these that I am reminded of my the words of my Systematic Theology teacher, the Rev. Dr. John Heidt.  He was discussing the Anglican Reformers and how they debated where bishops were of the essence (esse) of the church or were they for the good (<i>bene esse</b>) of the church.  He told us that the refomers concluded that bishops are of the essence of the church because they are not for the good of the church. smile

I am also reminded that the democratic processes we use often produce unexpected results in that the skills needed in an elected position (such as Representative, Senator, President, or Bishop) are not the skills needed to be elected to the office.

YBIC,
Phil Snyder

[74] Posted by Philip Snyder on 09-25-2007 at 03:32 PM • top

Matt, will you PLEASE tell them to hurry up?!?!?!  It is nearing 5:00 here, and I have to run to Best Buy to pickup my copy of Halo 3.  After that, I’m afraid I’ll be too busy saving earth from the convenant forces to check in on all this serious stuff!

[75] Posted by why1914 on 09-25-2007 at 03:33 PM • top

I’m following Brad Drell’s advice of yesterday and running out to Time Saver for a six pack. Hold on starting ‘till I get back will ya?

[76] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 03:34 PM • top

I know! I have to go do your Bible Study and the church wireless is down. Can’t you tell them to do something!

[77] Posted by Anne Kennedy on 09-25-2007 at 03:34 PM • top

Sure hope this is over before Dancing With the Stars and Ken Burns’ WWII start this evening…..

[78] Posted by Dee in Iowa on 09-25-2007 at 03:34 PM • top

os—“Maybe they had to determine if the stoles were inherently classist or racist? Expensive silk or wool used?”

—not only that, but if the shawls were made of mixed fabric, that proves that we don’t need to worry about anything the Old Testament says anymore, so we can align our sexual ethics with the Op-Ed Page of the New York Times, as we’ve already done.  (But they didn’t show much gratitude, trapping poor JJB that way…)

[79] Posted by Craig Goodrich on 09-25-2007 at 03:36 PM • top

Anne,
  Why does Matt & your’s wireless go down so much?

[80] Posted by Rocks on 09-25-2007 at 03:37 PM • top

OK, while we’re killing time, this might provide some reassurance:
http://www.ctsix.org/index.cfm/2007/9/25/Rev-Allyn-Benedict-Interpreting-this-present-time

[81] Posted by Connecticutian on 09-25-2007 at 03:37 PM • top

JK, don’t get run over by any stolen beer trucks.

[82] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 09-25-2007 at 03:37 PM • top

Got it, guys grin.  Just sitting here knitting (like Emily!) praying we don’t get fleeced or have the wool pulled over our eyes.  Then I’m going out to clean the barn - for some fresh air.  My shoveling job is probably easier than the bishops’ or the live-bloggers’ jobs.

[83] Posted by Cindy T. in TX on 09-25-2007 at 03:38 PM • top

Okay…has it been 15 minutes yet?
These people even fudge the time.

[84] Posted by Rocks on 09-25-2007 at 03:40 PM • top

Heavenly Father, we pray that you send your Holy Spirit right now upon this gathering of bishops.  Appoint and annoint voices to speak your words.  Open ears and open hearts.  Lord God, this is your church, founded by you for your glory.  Have your way with it in this hour.  Confound those who oppose you and make a way where there is no way.  All this we ask through your Son Jesus Christ, the Rock upon whom this church stands and by whose dying and rising we have authority to storm the gates of hell.

[85] Posted by Aspirant on 09-25-2007 at 03:40 PM • top

Meanwhile, in the square outside the hotel, the crowds are anxiously watching the hotel’s chimney.

Will it be white smoke or black smoke?

Will the bishops in secret conclave come to a decision?

Wait! There it is now. It’s a sort of wispy indeterminate grey! They’re probably burning their polyester-cotton prayer shawls.

smile

[86] Posted by Ken Peck on 09-25-2007 at 03:43 PM • top

BillS. - When I see the HoB respond, I am reminded of a “monkey trap”:

a trap designed to catch animals too smart to fall for an ordinary trap i.e. monkeys and people. It works by appealing to their greed such as a job that sucks but pays to well to let go of, or a relationship which is empty or destructive but offers certain perks which make it hard to escape.
The original monkey trap involves a hollow coconut chained to a stake and baited with food. It has a hole large enough for the monkey to put its hand into, but too small to remove its hand while holding the bait. The monkey needs only to let go to escape, but gets caught because it refuses to let go in its panic to keep its precious find.

TEC would like to continue SSB’s, consecrating non-celibate homosexual bishops, maintaining strict feudal control over the geographic USA (and TEC non-USA dominions), and stay fully a part of the Anglican Communion.  They can’t have it all.

If they want the geographic control, they need to give up their sexuality agenda.  If they want to keep their sexuality agenda, they need to allow for AEO (and I do think that the primates would be much more willing to deal with a liberal TEC if it allowed a parallel jurisdiction).  But the monkeys that are the HoB want it all.  And so they are stuck in the monkey trap.  They can’t move, they can’t put together anything creative.

Which turns the attention to the ABC and the primates.  What will they do when they come across the TEC monkeys with their hands still in the monkey trap?

[87] Posted by jamesw on 09-25-2007 at 03:44 PM • top

I think after I read the nonsense about to come out I’ll be most glad to have a stolen beer truck run over me and my prayer shawl

[88] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 03:44 PM • top

JK

Yesterday you “borrowed” a beer truck. Is it all gone already? You must have had some foux de deux last night!

[89] Posted by BillS on 09-25-2007 at 03:46 PM • top

I can see it now.  KJS standing on the balcony waving the resolution and saying: Annuntio vobis gagiam magnam.  Habemus pacem in tempo nostre.

Pax Christi vobiscum,
Eluchil

P.S. Sorry for the mixed metaphors wink

[90] Posted by Eluchil on 09-25-2007 at 03:47 PM • top

Please ... borrowed beer truck ... we’ll return it ... after the reverse interest of beer is paid smile

[91] Posted by Hosea6:6 on 09-25-2007 at 03:47 PM • top

I’m sitting here on the west coast thinking about clarity, brokenness and denial.  Clarity about brokenness is required for healing, but we all resist it.  The temptation to nuance is huge.  If we can nuance then our brokenness isn’t really brokenness at all.  It just looks alot like brokenness.  Clarity is tough on denial.  Clarity is like a light bulb in a dark room.  Could it be that the HOB is having to come to terms with the truth of their situation?  COuld the level of denial there have been so deep that they truly thought their earlier responses were clear?  I wonder.

[92] Posted by Ed McNeill on 09-25-2007 at 03:48 PM • top

this whole “report” is going to be foux de deux

[93] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 03:49 PM • top

A truckload of Abita TurboDog.

[94] Posted by via orthodoxy on 09-25-2007 at 03:50 PM • top

I just don’t understand anyone’s priorities here.

The Yankees are playing at 7:00 and Ken Burns is on at 8:00.

Surely the Bishops understand this?

[95] Posted by Id rather not say on 09-25-2007 at 03:52 PM • top

Do they still plan to do a Euch.? = at 5pm or tonight???
MATT, WHEN DOES YOUR PLANE LEAVE?

[96] Posted by Fla Oblate on 09-25-2007 at 03:53 PM • top

I am wondering if they are waiting for the Common Cause meeting to start.

RSB

[97] Posted by R S Bunker on 09-25-2007 at 03:53 PM • top

Like I said earlier…Hunker down guys & gals…It’s gonna be a bumpy ride!

[98] Posted by TLDillon on 09-25-2007 at 03:54 PM • top

Perhaps they’re stalling so that +Duncan won’t have any time to alter his address to the CCP opening at 7:00 tonight wink

[99] Posted by Allan Bourdius on 09-25-2007 at 03:55 PM • top

YANKEES, see another sign of the devil.  Now if you had mentioned that the Boston Red Sox play at 7:05…


RSB

[100] Posted by R S Bunker on 09-25-2007 at 03:55 PM • top

While we’re waiting, check out AnglicanTV for a 16 minute video recorded at Jerry Kramer’s church and just posted.

[101] Posted by Connie Sandlin on 09-25-2007 at 03:56 PM • top

Matt+ You probably just gave up the best seat in the place> You are such a gentlemen. Shucks!

[102] Posted by TLDillon on 09-25-2007 at 03:56 PM • top

+Charles Jenkins and +Don Wimberly last seen driving a stolen beer truck down Tulane Avenue. Possibly heading for Annunciation to pick up Father Kramer.

[103] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 03:57 PM • top

Videocast of opening speech at Common Cause Council of Bishops: 6:00pm Central time on AnglicanTV. If they are not finished by then, I’m outa here.

from the Briar Patch,

[104] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 09-25-2007 at 03:58 PM • top

C’mon, people—the ink on ++++++Williams’ rubber stamp is going dry!

[105] Posted by Africanised Anglican on 09-25-2007 at 03:58 PM • top

You people are cracking me up !!! (lololol)

[106] Posted by Anglican Observer on 09-25-2007 at 04:00 PM • top

Our Father, Who are in Heaven….

[107] Posted by tjmcmahon on 09-25-2007 at 04:00 PM • top

While we’re waiting…anybody checked the Daily Office for the day?

[108] Posted by TXFriend on 09-25-2007 at 04:01 PM • top

Our Mother, who am among us…

[109] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 09-25-2007 at 04:02 PM • top

When Canon James Rosenthall says wide approval, he means of like minded individuals in the ACC and, probally, the ABC himself.  And, of course, TEC leaders and 3 of the 5 AC Standing Committee Members. (Reminder—this is an office that said TEC has ALREADY substantially complied with Windsor.)

And, probally, several of the so-called Windsor Bishops. There will be lots of talk about painful compromise, the need to “move forward with mission”, continuing dialogue, “a constructive beginning”, a “new sense of understanding.”

But it will not have the approval of the GS leaders who have helped US churches, plus their close allies, nor the Common Cause bunch. 

The meeting will end with nothing having changed in regard to the debate or the split within the Communion.

[110] Posted by Going Home on 09-25-2007 at 04:03 PM • top

Fr. Jerry, ask them to stop at VooDoo Barbecue on St. Charles for take-out.  This could be a long night.

[111] Posted by Chazaq on 09-25-2007 at 04:04 PM • top

I look foward to the day when House of Bishops meetings are not media frenzies. Seems a strange mix of self importance and grandiosity that is contray to the gospel and christian trait of humilty and servanthood.

[112] Posted by plainsheretic on 09-25-2007 at 04:04 PM • top

Matt, can you pass on these suggestions to the HOB:
<blockquote>
It should be lengthy enough to seem substantial, yet concise enough to feel breezy.

It should be serious… but with a slight wink.

It should lay out a new course of action, but one that can change direction at any moment.
           
If you must mention facts and figures, don’t do so directly.

The general thrust should remain embedded in one’s mind forever, but specific words should be forgotten the moment they are heard.

It should contain nothing that can’t be confirmed or denied.
<blockquote>

(with all due apologies to the movie Schizopolis)

[113] Posted by why1914 on 09-25-2007 at 04:04 PM • top

Just sitting here with my bottle of Merlot, listening to Dolly Parton singing “I believe” -  everybody take a breath and relax.  Its all in God’s hands.

[114] Posted by Donal Clair on 09-25-2007 at 04:05 PM • top

I prefer fried chicken from Willie Mayes . . .

[115] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 04:05 PM • top

And there is death and shaking and the advent of division. I see a crowd of people gathered to celebrate. They celebrate a work of death. They call it life. They name God as the author. In truth, they celebrate fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They celebrate branches pruned from the Vine. I see another crowd gathered to mourn. They mourn a life. They call it death. They name Satan as the author. In truth they mourn the death of that which is passing away and which does not glorify the Lord of Life.

From the link Connecticutian provided above - awesome piece.

[116] Posted by larswife on 09-25-2007 at 04:06 PM • top

Let my prayer be set forth in thy sight as the incense; and let the lifting up of my hands be an evening sacrifice.  Psalm cxli. 2.

[117] Posted by Chazaq on 09-25-2007 at 04:06 PM • top

Cry aloud—for this is a REAL House o’ leaders of Jesus Christ’s Church!
Either they are musing,
Or they have perhaps gone aside,
Or they are on a journey,
Or perhaps they are asleep and must be awakened!

[118] Posted by Africanised Anglican on 09-25-2007 at 04:06 PM • top

+Charles Jenkins and +Don Wimberly last seen driving a stolen beer truck down Tulane Avenue. Possibly heading for Annunciation to pick up Father Kramer.

Just remember, no matter how you got it, or who paid for it, that beer is help in sacred trust for TEC.  If you try to leave with it he who will not be named (and who has not been seen or heard from at this meeting) will fall upon the nearest courthouse to sue you into submission.

RSB

[119] Posted by R S Bunker on 09-25-2007 at 04:08 PM • top

Let us humbly confess our sins unto Almighty God.

[120] Posted by Chazaq on 09-25-2007 at 04:08 PM • top

“And, probally, several of the so-called Windsor Bishops. There will be lots of talk about painful compromise, the need to “move forward with mission”, continuing dialogue, “a constructive beginning”, a “new sense of understanding.” “

O.K. I can see some of the Windsor Bishops buying into this, but I do hope none of the Network Bishops go along with the fudge….

[121] Posted by Dee in Iowa on 09-25-2007 at 04:09 PM • top

Hey SetApart,
The Gospel reading for today included Matthew 5:37:
“But let your statement be, ‘Yes, yes ’ or ‘No, no’; anything beyond these is of evil.  (No kidding.)

[122] Posted by more martha than mary on 09-25-2007 at 04:10 PM • top

This just from Kendall:
# VERY IMPORTANT: joint Standing Committee plays a Role in Language changes of final Draft (September 25, 2007 at 4:06 pm)

http://www.kendallharmon.net/t19/index.php/t19/print_w_comments/6329/

[123] Posted by larswife on 09-25-2007 at 04:12 PM • top

Plainsparson

look[s] foward to the day when House of Bishops meetings are not media frenzies.

Mmmpf.  Back in the ‘50s, when ECUSA was still an actual church, “extensive coverage” of a HoB meeting was a quarter-page at the back of the mimeographed monthly diocesan newsletter.  And that was left out if there was breaking story on the first Open House at a new mission. [Sigh ...]

[124] Posted by Craig Goodrich on 09-25-2007 at 04:13 PM • top

Martha, I’m only up to The Declaration of Absolution, or Remission of Sins.

The Almighty and Merciful God grant you Absolution and Remission of all your sins, true repentance, amendment of life, and the grace and consolation of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

[125] Posted by Chazaq on 09-25-2007 at 04:14 PM • top

The PB meeting with the Joint Standing Committee to craft the response? I have a bad feeling about this…

[126] Posted by Publius on 09-25-2007 at 04:16 PM • top

“Deacon Rosenthal said Archbishop Williams has already been briefed by representatives of the joint steering committee on the substance of the joint steering committee report to him.”

How can the joint steering committee report to +Cantuar when the HoB hasn’t even issued a statement?  This is beginning to sound very fishy to me.

YBIC,
Phil Snyder

[127] Posted by Philip Snyder on 09-25-2007 at 04:17 PM • top

I read it this a.m. Chazaq.

By the way, you all are really funny.  When this is all over, I’ll miss you guys!

[128] Posted by more martha than mary on 09-25-2007 at 04:17 PM • top

From all blindness of heart; from pride, vainglory, and hypocrisy; from envy, hatred, and malice; and from all want of charity,
Good Lord, deliver us.

From all inordinate and sinful affections; and from all the
deceits of the world, the flesh, and the devil,
Good Lord, deliver us.

From all false doctrine, heresy, and schism; from hardness
of heart, and contempt of thy Word and commandment,
Good Lord, deliver us.

[129] Posted by Hosea6:6 on 09-25-2007 at 04:17 PM • top

Brad, that info on the drafting committee was posted by the elves and it was bad info and I asked that it be taken down.

[130] Posted by Kendall Harmon on 09-25-2007 at 04:20 PM • top

I’m afraid I am going to have to leave for a long while (hours or so).

Tonight is my 20th wedding anniversary and I spend it on the computer, it may be my last smile.

YBIC,
Phil Snyder

[131] Posted by Philip Snyder on 09-25-2007 at 04:22 PM • top

You’ve got some British liberal Anglicans tuned in here, hoping TEC stands up for LGBT Christians everywhere and doesn’t drop its commitment to justice for us.

[132] Posted by culeitreach on 09-25-2007 at 04:23 PM • top

NCIS season debut tonight.  Someone will have to autopsy the “body” of evidence…just Ducky.

We won’t even mention how many screen refreshes we did waiting for the Roundtable discussions.  Makes you wonder if there’s a table that says, “Yep, there’s L2 again….250, 251, 252”  The one thing we know from a couple of weeks ago - there’s a lot of us “Anglican News Junkies” out there - Karen B. is the founding member. 

God, please, get through to these Bishops.  Let Your will be heard clearly.  Amen.

[133] Posted by The Lakeland Two on 09-25-2007 at 04:23 PM • top

Thank goodness they got that racism thing in the Deep South fixed.  Whew!!!

[134] Posted by Looking for Leaders on 09-25-2007 at 04:24 PM • top

welcome culeitreach, our prayers are ascending with a different request.  hope you are well across the pond though.

[135] Posted by JAC+ on 09-25-2007 at 04:27 PM • top

Matt’s been taken hostage . . . oh dear . . .

[136] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 04:28 PM • top

<a >culeitreach</a>, stick around.  The more the merrier.  Maybe eventually we’ll learn Welsh—and you might learn something, too…

[137] Posted by Craig Goodrich on 09-25-2007 at 04:28 PM • top

Instead of asking people where they were when J.F.Kennedy was shot, we can ask “Where were you when the Anglican Communion fell apart?”

[138] Posted by Canuck on 09-25-2007 at 04:28 PM • top

Some of us are just waiting for Lucy to pull the football away from Charlie Brown again.

[139] Posted by Jim the Puritan on 09-25-2007 at 04:28 PM • top

That it may please thee to strengthen such as do stand, and to comfort and help the weak-hearted; and to raise up those who fall; and
finally to beat down Satan under our feet
We beseech thee to hear us, good Lord

That it may please thee to give us true repentance; to forgive us all our sins, negligences, and ignorances; and to endue us with the the grace of they Holy Spirit to amend our lives according to thy Holy Word
We beseech thee to hear us, good Lord.

[140] Posted by In Newark on 09-25-2007 at 04:28 PM • top

Ahhhh, not another racism statement!

I’m sure our whole country will get right on that, ECUSA’s moral credibility being the shining beacon that it is ...

[141] Posted by Phil on 09-25-2007 at 04:28 PM • top

Looking for Leaders, remember that the Episcopal Church is really good at confessing OTHER people’s sins.

[142] Posted by Newbie Anglican on 09-25-2007 at 04:29 PM • top

Oh puke. No Gospel .  . . no mission. Give me a break. I’m about to stick my crochet needle in my head.

[143] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 04:29 PM • top

Craig, do learn Welsh if you’d like, dear, it’s a lovely language, though my screen name is gaelic, actually. If you neo-cons win in the USA, do we liberals here get alternative oversight from some nice American bishops?

[144] Posted by culeitreach on 09-25-2007 at 04:30 PM • top

Yes, you can have them all!!!!

[145] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 04:31 PM • top

Let me be the first to welcome our British Cousins.  Lads, it doesn’t look too good for TEC so if I were you, I’d start praying that the conservatives in the UK don’t get any ideas. 

A conservative Irish Anglican.

[146] Posted by Donal Clair on 09-25-2007 at 04:32 PM • top

Grab a cold one, culeitreach.  The libs like to whine about SF, but when it’s breaking news time, they know where to turn.  Why, I’ll bet there’s even a few Father Jake commenters lurking.

[147] Posted by Phil on 09-25-2007 at 04:33 PM • top

Yey, now you’re talking, Jerry. You’re more than welcome to that ghastly Bishop of Hereford, along with whoever else you can fit in your swagbag.

[148] Posted by culeitreach on 09-25-2007 at 04:33 PM • top

OK, Mrs. Schori affirms that we have “consensus”, which is I suppose just great except that I remember reading the claims of a number of nasty authoritarian regimes that their diktats were based on the “consensus of the people.”  At the same time, of course, journalists and others were carefully prevented from talking to the actual people about that…

[149] Posted by Craig Goodrich on 09-25-2007 at 04:33 PM • top

Man, the server is wheezin’.  I think a thousand people just hit refresh at the same time.

[150] Posted by Paul B on 09-25-2007 at 04:34 PM • top

“Where were you when the Anglican Communion fell apart?”

In my garage, writing compensation checks and flagellating myself over racism in the Deep South.

[151] Posted by Reactionary on 09-25-2007 at 04:34 PM • top

Send him with a bottle of Pims for me?

[152] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 04:34 PM • top

Culeitreach—just so you know, when Phil said “Grab a cold one”, he meant “grab a beer and sit down with us.”  Warm beer is fine, too. smile

[153] Posted by In Newark on 09-25-2007 at 04:36 PM • top

Of course, Jerry, the difference between the English bishops and yours is that you at least get to choose your ones.

[154] Posted by culeitreach on 09-25-2007 at 04:36 PM • top

culeitreach, we’d just love to send you all the purple you can handle, but I always thought that ++Barry Morgan was liberal enough for any three or four provinces.  Have I overestimated him?

[155] Posted by Craig Goodrich on 09-25-2007 at 04:37 PM • top

I think that’s our problem!!! It doesn’t seem to be working very well! Glad you are here.

[156] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 04:38 PM • top

Thanks for the translation, Phil. Will a weak g & t be ok?

[157] Posted by culeitreach on 09-25-2007 at 04:38 PM • top

where is cspan when you need it?

[158] Posted by micahtowery on 09-25-2007 at 04:39 PM • top

WOW!!!  Not only did the Bishops address racism in the deep south, but they also fixed the war in IRAQ, and got to tell the Pres. what a naughty boy he has been….again.  WE GOT A TWOFER!!!!

[159] Posted by Looking for Leaders on 09-25-2007 at 04:39 PM • top

Weak g&t;just fine . . . I just broke into the Holy of Holies for my Glenlivet.

[160] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 04:40 PM • top

Man, this website could really benefit from some AJAX technology so we wouldn’t have to refresh the entire page to get new comments and live blogging.  SFIF, leave the tradition of Web 1.0 and use the “new thing” of Web 2.0 tech.

[161] Posted by why1914 on 09-25-2007 at 04:41 PM • top

Barry Morgan is allowed to be nice because he’s from the Celtic Fringe, where they’re not the Established Church, and are therefore able to care more about justice issues. English bishops tend to just be feeble and unaccountable, whichever side of the deabte they are on.

[162] Posted by culeitreach on 09-25-2007 at 04:42 PM • top

Y’all aren’t supposed to be mixing the G&T;‘s and breaking out the Glenlivet yet; it’s not 5:00 CST yet!!!

[163] Posted by more martha than mary on 09-25-2007 at 04:42 PM • top

Techies are never satisfied…

[164] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 09-25-2007 at 04:42 PM • top

Phil wrote:

Grab a cold one, culeitreach. 

To make sure we’re clear, he means a pint, Culeitreach—not an ECUSA bishop.

(Didn’t know how well reference to a beer as a ‘cold one’ would translate to the Isles, especially following the abrupt segue from the US bishops you were requesting.)  wink

[165] Posted by Africanised Anglican on 09-25-2007 at 04:43 PM • top

Of course, culeitreach - not a bad suggestion, though those of us on the conservative side may be pouring a double before this is all over.

[166] Posted by Phil on 09-25-2007 at 04:43 PM • top

I just sprained my finger from hitting the refresh button too often. Kinda like when I broke the horn of my car (my wife will never let me live that one down)

[167] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 04:43 PM • top

If they can just get a unanimous “Blame Bush” resolution (Katrina, Global Warming, Iraq, etc) through, we can all go home knowing that our church is .  .  .  .  (finish this sentence)

[168] Posted by hanks on 09-25-2007 at 04:43 PM • top

What about a resolution on global warming?  I can’t believe they didn’t stick that in the appropriate place.

[169] Posted by Ralinda on 09-25-2007 at 04:44 PM • top

. . .  .  .  .finished.

[170] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 09-25-2007 at 04:44 PM • top

Well, I hope something’s about to happen over there, because it’s getting a bit late for the old girls over here to be still on our heels.

[171] Posted by culeitreach on 09-25-2007 at 04:45 PM • top

This was all a prescription for disaster.

Howe’s resolution getting the PB and Standing Committee here allowed a collaberative process to ensue between TEC and sympathetic AC forces on a statement that will be immediately praised (by the AC spokesman even before its been issued!!!). It will likely have the endorsement of the “visiting bishops”, whose presence and failure to repudiate that the proposed oversight plan has given TEC a big boost.

Defeat from the Jaws of Victory.

[172] Posted by Going Home on 09-25-2007 at 04:45 PM • top

Yep, that’s it, we down here in the old South are just a bunch of Southern Racists. No racism in New York, Boston, Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle or ...Las Vegas. Schori and her gang come to New Orleans, enjoy the hospitality, and then insult her hosts. How completely crass.

Just like Ahmadinejad claims that there is no homosexuality in Iran. These people are beyond the pale.

The Primates give them three simple questions, that require yes or no answers, and we get a statement on racism??? Somehow the Episcopal Church has morphed from the Republican Party at prayer to meetings of the secular soviet commissars.

As Yogi Berra once said, include me out.

[173] Posted by BillS on 09-25-2007 at 04:45 PM • top

Wow, I’m so excited… it’s almost like Christmas eve… only it’s not nighttime yet, and it’s not winter, and St. Nicholas isn’t coming, and the writing committee probably made a mess, and I’m likely to get stuck in the eye with Jerry’s crochet hook, and…  OK.  Maybe not so much like Christmas.  Sorry. Carry on.

[174] Posted by Cindy T. in TX on 09-25-2007 at 04:45 PM • top

Do save your fingers.  What a waste to share their “context and experience.”  The context is: You were asked to do three things.  Can you give a clear answer to them?

[175] Posted by Timothy Fountain on 09-25-2007 at 04:46 PM • top

Unfortunately, “Anglican C-Span” is already in Pittsburgh.
Matt and Baby B are doing a wonderful job… 
Round of applause for both of them!!!!

Grannie Gloria

[176] Posted by Grandmother on 09-25-2007 at 04:46 PM • top

Well folks…. I’ve gotta go. My pre-order of Halo 3 is awaiting me.
Good night, and God Bless!

[177] Posted by why1914 on 09-25-2007 at 04:46 PM • top

Dudette, better click your heels off and hit the couch this could be a long one.

[178] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 04:47 PM • top

PRICELESS, Ralinda!!!

[179] Posted by MasterServer on 09-25-2007 at 04:48 PM • top

Blah, blah, blah we get it, Katrina bad, global warming bad, Bush bad . . . just let me know if I need to turn the lights out.

[180] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 04:49 PM • top

I’m always struck by the irony of institutions that are whiter than the Cherokee Town Club constantly fulminating against racism and referring to the “Deep South” like it’s an agrarian oligarchy of Simon LeGrees out bullwhipping their slaves.

Now if y’all will excuse me, I’m off to supervise the cotton picking.

[181] Posted by Reactionary on 09-25-2007 at 04:49 PM • top

What about a resolution dealing with Obesity?

At least gluttony is a sin.

[182] Posted by MasterServer on 09-25-2007 at 04:51 PM • top

Outa here to make a meals on wheels run…

[183] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 09-25-2007 at 04:51 PM • top

This is like a comedy parodying the 60s.  They must be positively orgasmic: having a rap session, sharing their experiences, condemning the war, condeming racism.  A sit-in this is, or maybe a teach in.  Waiting for the free love part to come very soon.  Have they any idea how ridiculous they would appear to any normal Joe?

[184] Posted by VaAnglican on 09-25-2007 at 04:52 PM • top

When you find a decade ya like, I guess ya can just stick with it.  No need to modify ones thinking or perceptions really, just fit all following experience into the pre-existing categories and you can feel all self righteous with minimal effort.  Sweet gig really.

[185] Posted by Nyssa on 09-25-2007 at 04:55 PM • top

VaAnglican,

These are Baby Boomers, after all.  Wake me when they finally die off.

[186] Posted by Reactionary on 09-25-2007 at 04:55 PM • top

VaAnglican:
Waiting for the free love part to come very soon.

Well, yes, in a way, we kind of are ...

[187] Posted by Phil on 09-25-2007 at 04:56 PM • top

I am SO GLAD they remembered to thank the prayer shawl committee!

[188] Posted by Greg Sample on 09-25-2007 at 04:57 PM • top

A resolution on Racism?  Well, come on, tell us—are they for it or against it?

[189] Posted by James Manley on 09-25-2007 at 04:57 PM • top

Glenlivet in hand, crochet needle in head, prayer shawl on . . . I’m ready!

[190] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 04:58 PM • top

Help me out. Are these guys operating under the delusion that somebody out there cares about their official opinions on racism and the war on terror?

[191] Posted by Chazzy on 09-25-2007 at 04:59 PM • top

Well, not all Baby Boomers are that way, but certainly the ones who were in college from the mid-60s to early 70s are a seriously messed up bunch.  Of course not being able to do nasty capitalist work, they gravitated toward government, the universities, and the Episcopal Church—the only places they could have sanctuary.  They’ve pretty much made a mess of things wherever they’ve been, that’s for sure.  They were as awful for this country as the Greatest Generation was great.  And they need to move along, quickly.

[192] Posted by VaAnglican on 09-25-2007 at 04:59 PM • top

More Martha than Mary,
Its five o’clock somewhere ...... Hey! Its actually 6 here!
AP+

[193] Posted by Anglican Paplist on 09-25-2007 at 05:00 PM • top

The whole Deep South thing is offensive.  I cannot believe these ...people would even start with that in a daocument.  The biggest race riots I know of were in Detroit, Boston, Washington, DC and Watts.  For any bishop reading this, these cities are geographically not in the South.

RSB

[194] Posted by R S Bunker on 09-25-2007 at 05:01 PM • top

VaAnglican:
Thanks for the clarification.  By the time I got to college in 1974 things had pretty much died down as most of the rabble-rousers had graduated.  I always viewed my older Boomer siblings as seriously whacked.  Not much has changed apparently.

[195] Posted by Teacozy on 09-25-2007 at 05:02 PM • top

It’s 3:02 in Las Vegas—do you know where your bishop is?  Oh, yeah? Wanna bet?  ...

[196] Posted by Craig Goodrich on 09-25-2007 at 05:02 PM • top

OK - what happened to Matt’s blogging? Has something happened?

[197] Posted by Peter O on 09-25-2007 at 05:02 PM • top

Gluttony is a sin? Sez who? There are no sins in TEC any longer. Except the sins of racism, capitalism, drilling in ANWAR, granting stock options, trading with Israel, Global Warming, anything the US military does in defense of the nation, tax rates that are too low, health care that is not nationalized by the government, all of these are sins that are so clearly covered in the Bible.

[198] Posted by BillS on 09-25-2007 at 05:03 PM • top

Here is what Episcope reports s the resolutions:

In accordance with our Lord’s prayer and A159 and Great Commission and in gratitude for the Holy Spirit’s gift of reconciliation, we offer the following…with the hope of mending the tear in the fabric of our common life.

1 Cor 9:19-23

The House of Bishops expresses thanks to the AbC and JSC for accepting our invitation. Honored and assisted us in our discernment. Reminder of unity. Much of our meeting time in discernment.

Responses

Common discernment of God’s call includes all

We reconfirm that B033 of GC 2006 calls upon us to exercise restraint in consents.

We pledge not to authorize public rites for same-sex blessings.

Commend Episcopal Visitors plan.

Deplore incursions by foreign primates and call for them to cease.

Support PB in consultation.

Call for listening process.

Support AbC in desire for Bishop of NH to participate in Lambeth.

Unequivocal support for civil rights for lgbts.

[199] Posted by pendennis88 on 09-25-2007 at 05:04 PM • top

When you consider the sheer amount of experimental drug use went on in the 60’s, it makes you realize these bishops are actually doing pretty well…all things considered.

[200] Posted by Nyssa on 09-25-2007 at 05:04 PM • top

Where was their endorsement of the Michigan Civil Rights Initiative (MCRI), some of the most important civil rights legislation in the past 10 years? It ended the racist and sexist components in state, county and municipal law in Michigan, it ended state coerced racism and sexism.  That really is the acid test on civil rights.

[201] Posted by gkissel on 09-25-2007 at 05:05 PM • top

i) “Exercise restraint” is not the same as “will not consent”

ii) “Not authorize public rites” is not the same as “forbid clergy to conduct same-sex blessings”

They haven’t met the concerns of the Primates.

[202] Posted by Peter O on 09-25-2007 at 05:07 PM • top

Nyssa—that’s the problem, thanks!!!, Explains a lot…

And it ties right into Schori, who is about split the Communion, now trying to tell George Bush how to run the war on terrorism, when she can’t even run the church—-I wonder if she sees the similarity between bringing home the troops and calling off the lawyers…

[203] Posted by Don Armstrong on 09-25-2007 at 05:07 PM • top

Ed Mcneill writes: “I’m sitting here on the west coast thinking about clarity, brokenness and denial.  Clarity about brokenness is required for healing, but we all resist it.  The temptation to nuance is huge.  If we can nuance then our brokenness isn’t really brokenness at all.  It just looks alot like brokenness.  Clarity is tough on denial.  Clarity is like a light bulb in a dark room.  Could it be that the HOB is having to come to terms with the truth of their situation?  Could the level of denial there have been so deep that they truly thought their earlier responses were clear?  I wonder.”  Very insightful, Ed. I am certainly guilty of such self deception. If the gracious Holy Spirit is making His mighty presence known as this response is being cobbled together-who knows? If anyone remembers the the Disney classic, “Pollyanna”, the town preacher, played by Carl Malden, had more or less unwittingly let himself be controlled and used in his bishopric by the wealthy and influential town matron. A few words spoken by the seemingly ubiquitous Pollyanna (Hayley Mills) brought this man to himself and his duplicity-and to genuine repentance, including works “meet for repentance.” In doing so, he turned the town around, much to the dismay of the town matron (Jane Wyman, I believe). If one were to take that story as an allegory, surely Pollyanna represented the Holy Spirit, breathing life, love, and truth into a dark, oppresive, bitter place. In short; with God, all things are possible. Perhaps this will be the Spirits’ final appeal held out to to the HOB. Perhaps it will be heeded. Anyway, thanks again, Ed, for that important bit of wisdom.

[204] Posted by Bob K. on 09-25-2007 at 05:09 PM • top

“Exercise restraint”—“ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh . . . . ok, you can do it. Phew.”

[205] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 05:09 PM • top

EPIsCOPE IS POSTING MORE ......

[206] Posted by Fla Oblate on 09-25-2007 at 05:10 PM • top

Everyone who read the resolutions posted here from Camp Allen’s last meeting of Windsor/Network/Common Cause Bishops will know what was being proposed. Clear differentiation. Until we see the text of this, it is too soon to judge. But my sense is that a statement of clarification from those who have worked so hard at CA will be in order and essential. At stake in this is whether anglican missionary life can continue. If the Primates Meetings come undone, or the Communion splits into lots of federal shards, it will not matter to a lot of us what kind of peace was effected so as to hold the finger in the dyke. I have not been able to follow this and will be away from my computer, but not far from my prayers…

[207] Posted by zebra on 09-25-2007 at 05:11 PM • top

And singing softly in the background is Dandy Don Meridith, “...turn out the lights, the party’s over…”

[208] Posted by BillS on 09-25-2007 at 05:11 PM • top

Jerry! OH NO! You forgot your tinfoil hat!

[209] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 09-25-2007 at 05:11 PM • top

The crowds are anxiously watching the hotel’s chimney. Will it be white smoke or black smoke?”

Given the theology now driving ECUSA, all meetings should end with a very special form of black smoke: the rich, pungent aroma of burning tires mingled with discarded pages of scripture: the outward and visible sign of an inward and spiritual craze.

[210] Posted by Irenaeus on 09-25-2007 at 05:13 PM • top

VaAnglican—-You paint with a pretty broad brush.  Bishop Duncan, God bless him, is a Boomer.  Jack Spong is not.

[211] Posted by In Newark on 09-25-2007 at 05:13 PM • top

I’m wearing the tin foil hat with my prayer shawl, thank you very much!

[212] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 05:14 PM • top

When are they going to say NO to the selfish, self-centered attempt to shove the affirmation, indeed, the celebration of these life-styles down this church’s throat?  That’s what these bishops should be saying clearly.

[213] Posted by gkissel on 09-25-2007 at 05:15 PM • top

Touche, In Newark!  There are always exceptions to a stereotype, but that doesn’t negate the validity of the stereotype.  I bet Bob Duncan wishes he weren’t, and Jack Spong wishes he were!

[214] Posted by VaAnglican on 09-25-2007 at 05:15 PM • top

this is exactly why I no longer believe in “apostolic succession”

[215] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 05:16 PM • top

What a load of crap. Sorry. 4 days and a weekend and this is what comes out? Jimmy Cricket. The balls in the ABC’s court to call a Primates meeting to respond. TEC as folks still cling to it is done as a “catholic” institution. Mark the date - 9/25/2007.

[216] Posted by Festivus on 09-25-2007 at 05:16 PM • top

Bill S

And singing softly in the background is Dandy Don Meridith, “...turn out the lights, the party’s over…”

I went full bore and got Willie’s version.

RSB

[217] Posted by R S Bunker on 09-25-2007 at 05:17 PM • top

I like the part that says:  we won’t authorize SSBs unless the Communion agrees or General Convention authorizes it.

Talk about committing to nothing.

[218] Posted by Rick Killough on 09-25-2007 at 05:18 PM • top

Headline:

Global South Primates respond: Archbishop of Canterbury no longer fit to carry mantel of spiritual leader for Anglicanism.” Put money on it.

[219] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 05:18 PM • top

This is what we were waiting for?  This took them endless hours last night and today?

[220] Posted by Nyssa on 09-25-2007 at 05:20 PM • top

“79 Prayer Books roasting on an open fire
Jack Frost nipping at your toes…......

the snarkster

[221] Posted by the snarkster on 09-25-2007 at 05:21 PM • top

That’s Bp. Geralyn Wolf of Rhode Island, Matt confirmed by IM

[222] Posted by The_Elves on 09-25-2007 at 05:21 PM • top

Fesrivus,

Could not agree with you more.  Why did they have to meet to produce this load.  This is the same pile they produced six months ago.

I cannot believe that the Windsor Bishops did not get up, turn their backs to the speakers and walk out.

RSB

[223] Posted by R S Bunker on 09-25-2007 at 05:21 PM • top

Not a word about repentance as the Primates required….only statements of how justified and right they are.

[224] Posted by Daniel Lozier on 09-25-2007 at 05:21 PM • top

I think the document makes it clear that “exercise restraint” = “not consent to”. It’s exercise restraint by not consenting to. With that and the statement that non-celibate gay and lesbian people are covered I think on this point at least the position is clear.

[225] Posted by Paul Stanley on 09-25-2007 at 05:21 PM • top

They all went out drinking and eating last night . . . I was at Dicky Brennan’s with a gaggle of them in private rooms. Priorities, people, priorities.

[226] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 05:21 PM • top

Jerry,

The ABC could turn things around by revoking his invitations to the US Church but those are some awfully long odds.  Global South will not be present at Lambeth and, as someone noted, the AC is therefore done.

[227] Posted by Reactionary on 09-25-2007 at 05:22 PM • top

Jerry, what we got was “apostolic secession.”

from the Briar Patch,

[228] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 09-25-2007 at 05:23 PM • top

What about the plea from the primates in Dar to end the litigation?  Nary a peep!

[229] Posted by David Wilson on 09-25-2007 at 05:23 PM • top

Only two possiblilities now present themselves:

a) The ABC calls a Primates’ Meeting and ECUSA is canned.
b) The Communion is toast.

I sincerely hope Common Cause points this out to +++Rowan.  You can bet Canon Cameron won’t…

[230] Posted by Craig Goodrich on 09-25-2007 at 05:23 PM • top

AC finished last week when Rowan said at the press conference there was no deadline. This was all puff.

[231] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 05:23 PM • top

I just don’t see much here that explains all the effort. Aside from the sections lamenting VGR’s exclusion from the Lambeth Conference is there really anything new here? It seems that the real news is in what the HOB, again, fails to say.

[232] Posted by JoshuaB on 09-25-2007 at 05:23 PM • top

Well, I guess I can answer the question I posed in my last post: “No”. Lotsa fudge here, and its nowhere near enough. My deepest prayer is that Common Cause will move forward with its plan for a new, Biblically based orthodox province in North America-the resulting shreiks coming from 815 be d****d.

[233] Posted by Bob K. on 09-25-2007 at 05:24 PM • top

+ABC to Akinola, “Don’t tase me, bro!”

[234] Posted by ama-anglican on 09-25-2007 at 05:24 PM • top

Have these people even read the Tanzania communique? There is no moral equivalence between apostasy and boundary-crossings, period.

[235] Posted by Chazzy on 09-25-2007 at 05:24 PM • top

This resolution offers nothing new. TEC is where it was before the HoB meeting. This is not a bad result, because it provides all the clarity anyone would want concerning TEC’s rebellion. Note to ABC: this is your last chance to save the Communion and your office. Discipline TEC or lose evrything. DO YOUR DUTY!

[236] Posted by Publius on 09-25-2007 at 05:25 PM • top

DES: “The Primates request, through the Presiding Bishop, that the House of Bishops of The Episcopal Church

1. make an unequivocal common covenant that the bishops will not authorise any Rite of Blessing for same-sex unions in their dioceses or through General Convention (cf TWR, §143, 144); and

2. confirm that the passing of Resolution B033 of the 75th General Convention means that a candidate for episcopal orders living in a same-sex union shall not receive the necessary consent (cf TWR, §134); unless some new consensus on these matters emerges across the Communion (cf TWR, §134).”

They did it!  The Anglican Communion is SAVED!

[237] Posted by Chazaq on 09-25-2007 at 05:26 PM • top

I’m not at all clear that “exercise restraint” = “not consent to.”  What I read is that “when deciding to consecrate or not, we’ll think (wink wink) about whether a candidate’s lifestyles are a barrier to consecration—including gay and lesbian candidates.”  What I don’t read is that “we won’t consecrate a person living in a relationship outside of matrimony, no matter what so long as the Communion teaches as it does.”

[238] Posted by Rick Killough on 09-25-2007 at 05:26 PM • top

Rowan will do zip. Blood is on his hands. AC done. I’m off to check on the weather blogs for storms in the Gulf of Mexico. Still no sign of that darned beer truck.

[239] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 05:27 PM • top

11And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim:

12And they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods, of the gods of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the LORD to anger.

13And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth.

14And the anger of the LORD was hot against Israel, and he delivered them into the hands of spoilers that spoiled them, and he sold them into the hands of their enemies round about, so that they could not any longer stand before their enemies.

15Whithersoever they went out, the hand of the LORD was against them for evil, as the LORD had said, and as the LORD had sworn unto them: and they were greatly distressed. (Judges 2;11-15)

[240] Posted by PROPHET MICAIAH on 09-25-2007 at 05:27 PM • top

Nomination for Best Line of the Evening goes to Brer Rabbit for “apostolic secession”!

[241] Posted by BillS on 09-25-2007 at 05:29 PM • top

This is actually more than I thought them capable of, yet it is still FAR too little too late.

Eyes turn to Common Cause and to the primates.  ( The ABC will accept this hands down. )

Turn out the lights, party’s over.  I guess this means Sarah will be checking out the local congregational churches soon.  Gosh what a waste the last 4 years have been.

[242] Posted by Spencer on 09-25-2007 at 05:29 PM • top

I guess I’ll just preach about Jesus on Sunday . . .

[243] Posted by JerryKramer on 09-25-2007 at 05:30 PM • top

Kramer+ is right Can’t-erbury won’t do squat. The ball is in the primates court now. Stand by for the parade of bishops who will state that they have no intention of abiding by any restrictions no matter how mild.

As someone said above: Turn out the lights, the party’s over.

the snarkster

[244] Posted by the snarkster on 09-25-2007 at 05:32 PM • top

We, the members of the House of Bishops, pledge not to authorize for
use in our dioceses any 86 public rites of blessing of same-sex unions
until a broader consensus emerges in the
87 Communion, or until General Convention takes further action.

(emphasis added)

Anyone who thinks such a rite will not be introduced at GC2009, raise your hands.  No one?  Didn’t think so.

[245] Posted by Connie Sandlin on 09-25-2007 at 05:33 PM • top

JerryKramer,

You are obviously not with the program! You need to preach about racism, drilling in Anwar, corporate greed, Gobal Warming, BushHilters illegal war in Iraq, and MDG (peace and blessings be upon them) Weren’t you paying attention?

[246] Posted by BillS on 09-25-2007 at 05:33 PM • top

I wore out a mouse and got a blister on my trigger finger for this?
Horse feathers!

the snarkster

[247] Posted by the snarkster on 09-25-2007 at 05:34 PM • top

The graphic archives for Tropical Storm Jerry show it proceeding over Greenland. Cold reception?

[248] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 09-25-2007 at 05:36 PM • top

Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin.

[249] Posted by Jim the Puritan on 09-25-2007 at 05:36 PM • top

Did we ever find out who exactly were the writers?  If +Stanton and +Howe were among them, I hope that they have submitted their resignations to the ACN.  They cannot keep a foot in both camps any longer.

WILL there be a minority report?

[250] Posted by Ann Castro on 09-25-2007 at 05:39 PM • top

Yep, Kendall+ was right, we need a minority report from the Windsor Bishops, and we need it now.

If the elves message above was to indicate that it was Geralyn Wolf who voted “no”, she once again scores points in my book.  And where were the rest of the Windsor Bishops?  I had expected there would be 10 or 15 at least voting against this [series of expletives deleted by self to save commenatrix the trouble].  Unless, of course, they have already left the building and are on the way to Pittsburgh (doubtful, very doubtful).

The upside for the faithful is that we can now watch the Common Cause meeting and have some hope.  The liberals and moderates will have to live with this fudge for the next 20 years (unless the attrition in TEC increases, in which case, they will not have to live with it that long).

[251] Posted by tjmcmahon on 09-25-2007 at 05:40 PM • top

Thanks Matt+ for reporting on this.  We appreciate you delivering the news so sacrificially and working so hard, and for your theological analysis. 

Thanks Greg for the Blog.  You have done an awesome work with getting the truth to the people.  This technology of getting the truth into the hands of all the people instantly across the globe has let the Truth shine.

Thanks Sarah so much for your sharp wit and your eloquent writing style.  Your writing ability is truly a God given gift.  Don’t stop using it.

Grace and Peace to all.  Goodnight.

[252] Posted by Spencer on 09-25-2007 at 05:43 PM • top

“Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin.” Well put, Jim.

[253] Posted by Bob K. on 09-25-2007 at 05:44 PM • top

Jim, it does appear the handwriting is on the wall!
Daniel 5:23 but hast lifted up thyself against the Lord of heaven; ... and thou hast praised the gods of silver and gold, of brass, iron, wood, and stone, which see not, nor hear, nor know; and the God in whose hand thy breath is, and whose are all thy ways, hast thou not glorified.
24 Then was the part of the hand sent from before him, and this writing was inscribed.
25 And this is the writing that was inscribed: MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.
26 This is the interpretation of the thing: MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and brought it to an end;
27 TEKEL; thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.
28 PERES; thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians.

and I weep.

[254] Posted by merlenacushing on 09-25-2007 at 05:47 PM • top

HOB, prepare to reap the worldwind.  I’m sure your mother would be proud of you.  You have taken the nation church, the church of the founding fathers and gutted it like a fish.  Shame! 

Pride cometh before the fall.  Your fudge won’t work, more churches, even dioceses will leave.  An alternate provence in the US will emerge, more people will leave your dead buildings and flock to hear the true gospel.  Your money will dry up and in 20 years you will be all but gone.  All because of Pride.

[255] Posted by Donal Clair on 09-25-2007 at 05:50 PM • top

tjmcmahon, I didn’t think there was a “moderate” in Christianity…either you are for Christ or against him.  Then again, Jesus did refer to those who are “lukewarm”....maybe that’s what you meant.

[256] Posted by Daniel Lozier on 09-25-2007 at 05:52 PM • top

snarkster:

“79 Prayer Books roasting on an open fire
Jack Frost nipping at your toes…......

“Only Yuletide blessings can be sung by the choir, because Spong says Christmas is a ‘No’....  Everybody knows… them bishops with their promises… won’t really do anything that’s right… TinyTim and friend clearly know… that a Blessing will happen private like.

And SO, I’m offering this simple prayer, to him or her or anyone you like, for although its been said many times, many ways… the Episcopal church… welcomes…. YOU.”

[257] Posted by Eclipse on 09-25-2007 at 05:55 PM • top

Father Jerry, is ever thing your taking on your diet?  That stolen beer truck is for Walgreen’s, not the church!
Roman, Los Angeles

[258] Posted by Roman on 09-25-2007 at 05:56 PM • top

Greg…could we turn on the pirate translator again?

[259] Posted by lizzie2 on 09-25-2007 at 07:00 PM • top

This is actually clearer than I expected.  While not conceding an inch regarding the sufficiency B033 they do clarify that it applies to non-celibate, partnered gays and lesbians.  Likewise, the refusal to even call for restraint (let alone a halt) in ongoing SSB’s, though no official rite has been approved; and the endorsement of the laughably inadequate episcopal visitors plan amount to, IMO, a clear rejection of Dar.  I think the ABC will have to be willfully blind to ignore this truth.  If (when) he does nothing the primates will have to make up their own minds.  I seriously doubt that those who pushed for and supported Dar will accept this.  It is simply non-responsive on too many points (SSB’s, APO, and lawsuits).

Pax Christi vobiscum,
Eluchil

[260] Posted by Eluchil on 09-25-2007 at 07:18 PM • top

the rich, pungent aroma of burning tires mingled with discarded pages of scripture: the outward and visible sign of an inward and spiritual craze.

Ladies and gentlemen, the best summation of the 2007 House of Bishops Meeting in New Orleans.

[261] Posted by oscewicee on 09-25-2007 at 07:30 PM • top

A resolution on Racism?  Well, come on, tell us—are they for it or against it?

They are speaking bishopese.  Who knows whether they are for or against it?  On second thought, though, it sounds like they are for it in the north, and agin’ it in the south.  Oops!  Correction.  They decided to be politically correct and say it is a national problem.  That’s our HOB——PC to the end.

[262] Posted by terrafirma on 09-25-2007 at 08:26 PM • top

Mr. Schori, nice guy by the way

KJS’s husband is Dr. Schori.  He is a retired professor of mathematics at Oregon State.

[263] Posted by Piedmont on 09-25-2007 at 09:06 PM • top

Hat tip to Bre’r Rabbit for “apostolic secession.”

But perhaps the substance is closer to an apostatic secession.

[264] Posted by Irenaeus on 09-25-2007 at 09:40 PM • top

Just not an apoplectic secession?

from the Briar Patch,

[265] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 09-25-2007 at 09:43 PM • top

At Parallel Play in the Fields of the Lord…

[266] Posted by Christoferos on 09-25-2007 at 10:39 PM • top

And what about this slap at ++Nigeria:

It is of fundamental importance that, as we continue to seek consensus in matters of human sexuality, we also be clear and outspoken in our shared commitment to establish and protect the civil rights of gay and lesbian persons, and to name and oppose at every turn any action or policy that does violence to them, encourages violence toward them, or violates their dignity as children of God. We call all our partners in the Anglican Communion to recommit to this effort.

Of course we abhor violence to gays or anyone - that’s not the point.  But they spank ++Akinola with this particular piece, regardless of the facts on the ground.  Makes the progressives happy, but doesn’t enamor themselves to the Primates.

[267] Posted by Cindy T. in TX on 09-26-2007 at 12:42 AM • top

Ed McNeill wrote:

COuld the level of denial there have been so deep that they truly thought their earlier responses were clear?  I wonder.

Could have been, and apparently still is. That is the only explanation I can think of for the seeming inability of the Bishops to give a clear answer to a clear question.

[268] Posted by kyounge1956 on 09-26-2007 at 01:27 AM • top

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