Welcome to Stand Firm!

Bishop Jefferts Schori writes Bishop Duncan

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 • 9:21 pm


Honestly, I really think it’s time for another one of Greg Griffith’s Letters from the PB Mailbag.

I note that she wishes the diocese to behave as if it “recognizes the interdependent and hierarchical relationship between the national Church and its dioceses and parishes.”  Of course . . . that will be precisely the issue in a secular court of law—whether the diocese’s existence is indeed contingent upon a “hierarchical relationship” with the “national Church and its dioceses and parishes.”

But my Most Favoritest Line of all . . . with high marks for humor, is this one: “I would remind you of my open offer of an Episcopal Visitor if you wish to receive pastoral care from another bishop.”

No, PB.  They wish to receive “pastoral care” from another Primate, not another bishop.  They already have a bishop, thanks, and he is offering the “pastoral care” to the diocese.  Why on earth would a bishop need another bishop to provide “pastoral care” to him?

What. A. Maroon.

From ENS:

Letter from the Presiding Bishop to Pittsburgh Bishop Robert Duncan

The Rt. Rev. Robert Duncan
Episcopal Diocese of Pittsburgh
Pittsburgh, PA

Dear Bob,

There have been numerous public references in recent weeks regarding resolutions to be introduced at your forthcoming diocesan convention. Those resolutions, if adopted, would amend several of your diocesan canons and begin the process of amending one or more provisions of your diocesan Constitution. I have reviewed a number of these proposed resolutions, and it is evident to me that they would violate the Constitutional requirement that the Diocese conform to the Constitution and Canons of The Episcopal Church. It is apparent from your pre-convention report that you endorse these proposed changes. I am also aware of other of your statements and actions in recent months that demonstrate an intention to lead your diocese into a position that would purportedly permit it to depart from The Episcopal Church. All these efforts, in my view, display a fundamental misunderstanding of the relationship between The Episcopal Church and its dioceses. Our Constitution explicitly provides that a diocese must accede to the Constitution and Canons of the Church.

I call upon you to recede from this direction and to lead your diocese on a new course that recognizes the interdependent and hierarchical relationship between the national Church and its dioceses and parishes. That relationship is at the heart of our mission, as expressed in our polity. Specifically, I sincerely hope that you will change your position and urge your diocese at its forthcoming convention not to adopt the resolutions that you have until now supported.

If your course does not change, I shall regrettably be compelled to see that appropriate canonical steps are promptly taken to consider whether you have abandoned the Communion of this Church—by actions and substantive statements, however they may be phrased—and whether you have committed canonical offences that warrant disciplinary action.

It grieves me that any bishop of this Church would seek to lead any of its members out of it. I would remind you of my open offer of an Episcopal Visitor if you wish to receive pastoral care from another bishop. I continue to pray for reconciliation of this situation, and I remain

Your servant in Christ,

Katharine Jefferts Schori


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Comments:

The ENS article was titled “Presiding Bishop reaches out…” I think TEC is the only place where being reached out to translates into being deposed and sued.

[1] Posted by MLW+ on 10-31-2007 at 08:34 PM • top

Please pray for the Diocesan convention this weekend, and special prayers for those who are holding the proceedings up in prayer - a palanca room providing covering for the whole convention.  Those warriors need their own support.
Special prayers for Bishop Bob and all of us, his sheep, here in da ‘Burgh.
Thank you.

[2] Posted by GillianC on 10-31-2007 at 08:36 PM • top

Responses to Rowan (sic) were due today.  Is this part of ECUSA’s response?

[3] Posted by wildfire on 10-31-2007 at 08:36 PM • top

Critical mass has been achieved, and the nuclear-splitting explosion of TEC/PECUSA is now under way and cannot be stopped.

...on leave from the Briar Patch,

[4] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 10-31-2007 at 08:40 PM • top

God bless Bp Duncan, and grant him a reply both gracious and powerful. May the Diocese of Pittsburgh remain faithful and true.  May the plans of those who deny Jesus as our only mediator and advocate be frustrated.

[5] Posted by AnglicanXn on 10-31-2007 at 08:41 PM • top

Gillian, prayers for you all! May God clearly guide you along the way He would have you go.

[6] Posted by oscewicee on 10-31-2007 at 08:44 PM • top

The Episcopal Church ... reaches out and touches someone.

[7] Posted by oscewicee on 10-31-2007 at 08:49 PM • top

Has the shadow bishop and the shadow standing committee for the shadow diocese of pittsburgh been selected? Beers & PB, Ltd. is going to need some stand-ins after all these offices are declared vacant.

...on leave from the Briar Patch,

[8] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 10-31-2007 at 08:54 PM • top

You all might as well know that the Presiding Bishop was just deposed (in the legal sense) for the upcoming Virginia Trial (and it was a video deposition by the way).  She and her lawyers seem to be in quite mood now - hold tight. 

It might be wise for us to remember over the next two weeks that there is a major subtext going on as the trial preparations are underway. 

This letter seems written with the Virginia Trial in mind.  The terminology used in it is aimed more at the Virginia judge than Bob Duncan.  This letter just has the Virginia Trial written all over it.  Just so you know.

bb

[9] Posted by BabyBlue on 10-31-2007 at 08:56 PM • top

bb, it may have the Virginia trial written all over it, but I don’t have any doubt that it’s aimed at +Duncan. Maybe this is why she looked so happy in her Halloween address?

[10] Posted by oscewicee on 10-31-2007 at 08:59 PM • top

Gillian, many prayers from all here in Fresno, CA. We too will be facing something of the same come Dec. 2nd. Schori has no idea of the ball that has begun its rolling and she would do well to recognize that she cannot threaten the Conservative Orthodox Christians anymore. My prayers for Bishop Duncan and all in Pittsburg. MAy the Lord hold them up in the Firm Right Path to move forward without fear and with courage that comes only from Him, our Lord and Savior. Amen!

[11] Posted by TLDillon on 10-31-2007 at 09:01 PM • top

Please pray for Bishop Duncan.  Pray for the Holy Spirit to give him holy boldness as he gives his Convention address in light of this ham-handed threat from DBB/KJS.
I am believing this whole line of attack will galvanize the beleivers in our diocese to turn out a far larger majority than we were expecting on Resolution One.
Pray for my fellow clergy and all lay deputies not to lose heart but to “Be on your guard. Stand firm in the faith. Be brave. Be strong.
Be loving in everything you do”.
David Wilson

[12] Posted by David Wilson on 10-31-2007 at 09:01 PM • top

Wouldn’t it be wonderful if Bishop Duncan were to respond by asking +KJS if her letter means that she and ECUSA are now prepared to repent of their heresies and return to the faith once delivered.

[13] Posted by Jackie on 10-31-2007 at 09:02 PM • top

I agree with Oscewicee , Virginia is small potatoes, but this is a diocese not a mere 11 parishes, the stakes are much higher. Also this is +Duncan who probably has a bullseye position on the dart board, +Minns my be close to the center but I’ll bet +Duncan is bullseye.
——
Keep the Faith DioPitt! The Lord has promised if we pick up the Cross and follow Jesus that we will suffer, but He also promises to be with us and walk through that suffering. The three Hebrew boys were not spared the furnace, but only there binding ropes were burnt and they met the Lord in the fire. My prayer are with you for this weekend.

[14] Posted by Hosea6:6 on 10-31-2007 at 09:06 PM • top

You all might as well know that the Presiding Bishop was just deposed (in the legal sense) for the upcoming Virginia Trial (and it was a video deposition by the way).  She and her lawyers seem to be in quite mood now - hold tight. 

It might be wise for us to remember over the next two weeks that there is a major subtext going on as the trial preparations are underway. 

This letter seems written with the Virginia Trial in mind.  The terminology used in it is aimed more at the Virginia judge than Bob Duncan.  This letter just has the Virginia Trial written all over it.  Just so you know.

bb

[15] Posted by BabyBlue on 10-31-2007 at 09:08 PM • top

What. A. Maroon.

What does that mean?

[16] Posted by Occasional Reader on 10-31-2007 at 09:12 PM • top

Can anyone pry that fiddle out of Rowan Williams’ hands and hand him a fire hose?

[17] Posted by jamesw on 10-31-2007 at 09:14 PM • top

Please, I don’t have email addresses for our beloved, faithful Bishops, but if someone here does, could you please send them ALL a link to:

http://apostolicity.blogspot.com/2007/10/saint-crispins-day.html

They need to know, they are surrounded by a wall of prayers, and that regardless of our various beliefs or reformations, we are calling on the saints of the church to protect them from this evil.

God, protect and preserve your church wherever it is, surround our leader with your love and protection.

AMEN

Grannie G

[18] Posted by Grandmother on 10-31-2007 at 09:16 PM • top

And, for all of its pains to pander to the GLBT community, for all the Gay Pride marches it debases itself with, <a >somebody still wants to burn down its cathedral in San Fran</a>.

[19] Posted by Jeffersonian on 10-31-2007 at 09:16 PM • top

The Virginia litigation is not just about 11 parishes.  It is a flagship case for TEC along with California.  If TEC wins in these two states, their hegemony will be unquestioned.  If they lose in these two states (and there is a good chance they will lose), it blows the whole legal game wide open.  Property issues are decided on a state by state basis, and many believe that the “church heirarchy” theory upon which the KJS/Beers/815 strategy is based may be vulnerable.  If Virginia and California go with the “neutral principles” approach, the trend will have been established.

[20] Posted by jamesw on 10-31-2007 at 09:17 PM • top

oops, got published twice.  Sorry.  Small potatoes?  What is the annual budget of the Diocese of Pittsburgh vs the combined budgets of the Anglican District of Virginia parishes?  How much is The Falls Church worth?  Did George Washington serve on a Vestry in Pittsburgh?  What makes TEC go round?  We probably should keep our eyes wide open right now, friends.

I’ll say it again, this letter has the Virginia Trial case all over it.  Keep watch and pray.  The court is in session in two weeks.  There will probably be some interesting things being said and done so they are entered into the record of the proceedings.  And as I said before, depositions are underway.  The clarification of from the unnammed person explaining to the world (i.e., the Fairfax Court) what Rowan Williams really meant when he wrote to John Howe came out right after another noteworthy deposition. 

Keep watch - and pray.

bb

[21] Posted by BabyBlue on 10-31-2007 at 09:18 PM • top

I believe “What a maroon” is a quote from our beloved Bugs Bunny—who pronounced ‘moron’ in an unusual way.  (Hope I have the right cartoon character.)

[22] Posted by Judith L on 10-31-2007 at 09:24 PM • top

BB - I know there is a personal stake in all this for you and I’ll consider that in my reply, yet I’ll issue this warning too, pride is something the Lord hates and Truro and TFC mean nothing to Him if they are elevated to a level that obstructs and a sure way to have His hand removed. Remember what the Lord did with the Temple, twice!

Now legally TEC would be more frighten of precedent of the smallest diocese than of the largest parish for as recently reminded in the “catholicity battles” how the structure of PECUSA is structured at the diocesan level and a female (alone affecting the FiFNA folks) not grounded (the rest) PB does not matter for the dioceses is the main vehicle, if true than this is more critical.

BB—I appreciate your in a tough spot, but please do not look at all through Virginia lens. It belittle the pain DioPitt maybe experiencing in January of 2008. This will enter a whole new set of legal issue not explored when Beer, Esq begins his craft.

[23] Posted by Hosea6:6 on 10-31-2007 at 09:30 PM • top

What’s with the “Dear Bob?”  Maybe it’s just me but that seems a bit strange…

[24] Posted by ElaineF. on 10-31-2007 at 09:38 PM • top

How does all this relate to the ABC’s letter to +Howe regarding the importance of the diocese vs. the importance of the province?

[25] Posted by old lady on 10-31-2007 at 09:39 PM • top

The PB writes,

That [hierarchical relationship between the national Church and its dioceses and parishes] is at the heart of our mission, as expressed in our polity.

And here all this time I thought that the gospel of Jesus Christ and his kingdom was “at the heart of our mission.”

Silly me.

[26] Posted by Ken Peck on 10-31-2007 at 09:43 PM • top

Hey, you guys - I was going to say the same thing… see:

+Schori says:

I call upon you to recede from this direction and to lead your diocese on a new course that recognizes the interdependent and hierarchical relationship between the national Church and its dioceses and parishes. That relationship is at the heart of our mission, as expressed in our polity.

First of all, eeeewww.  To say the “heart of [the church’s] mission” is the heirarchical relationship between the national church and its dioceses and parishes, is wrong, and creepy.  More interestingly, it doesn’t exactly jibe with the Archbishop of Canterbury’s most resent note to the Bishop of Central Florida.  To wit: “The organ of union with the wider Church is the Bishop and the Diocese rather than the Provincial structure as such.”  Guess the ABC is still a bit fuzzy on TEC’s holy polity. 

‘Course, I’m sure this isn’t the first time +Schori and +++Williams have not seen things quite the same.

[27] Posted by Cindy T. in TX on 10-31-2007 at 09:45 PM • top

May Bishop Duncan and all the faithful in Pittsburgh be protected with the full armor of God, as they face the wrath of the apostates now in charge of TEC.  May the Lord put His hedge of protection around them.
“For [their] struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.”  Ephesians 6: 12
Let us all commit to unceasing prayer for this courageous, humble man of God, and all of those upholding the apostolic Christian faith in Pittsburgh, as well as in CA and VA.

[28] Posted by BettyLee Payne on 10-31-2007 at 09:47 PM • top

How about disingenuous: Suddenly radical feminist Presiding Bishop Kathryn is talking about—horror of horrors—Male dominated hierarchical institutions like the Episcopal Church in glowing terms. When this is over, it will be back to rebelling against such a male understanding of the Church as hierarchical. Such is our pick and choose theology when it suits the need for power.

[29] Posted by Forever Anglican on 10-31-2007 at 10:03 PM • top

Katharine Schori says:

It grieves me that any bishop of this Church would seek to lead any of its members out of it.

It grieves me that any bishop of THE CHURCH (the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church) would choose to tear the fabric of the Anglican Communion after being forewarned, thus creating this incredible mess!  God’s judgement will not be turned aside by TEC’s polity.

[30] Posted by lambswool on 10-31-2007 at 10:21 PM • top

Dear Katie,

NUTS!

Sincerely,

...

[31] Posted by Rolling Eyes on 10-31-2007 at 10:21 PM • top

She hasn’t written anything like this to +Fort Worth, +Quincy, or +San Joaquin, has she?

[32] Posted by murbles on 10-31-2007 at 10:29 PM • top

Murbles,
The PB did write something similar to Bishop Schofiled about this time last year. Here is the link to the story and the letter:

http://www.episcopalchurch.org/3577_79844_ENG_HTM.htm

And this is the link of Bishop Schofield’s response to Schori
http://titusonenine.classicalanglican.net/?p=16463

[33] Posted by TLDillon on 10-31-2007 at 10:38 PM • top

BB, why haven’t these depositions made it on to YouTube yet?  Apparently they were videotaped.  I’m a lawyer, and unless there was a protective order in place, there is absolutely no reason why this material can’t be made public.  It’s part of the public record.

[34] Posted by Nasty, Brutish & Short on 10-31-2007 at 10:40 PM • top

What’s with the “Dear Bob?” Maybe it’s just me but that seems a bit strange…

Similar to her post NOLA letter addressed as to “Rowan”. Maybe she just wants to take Bp. Duncan bowling, knock down some beers,then felch his wallet.
Intercessor

[35] Posted by Intercessor on 10-31-2007 at 11:06 PM • top

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

I’m convinced that God loves martyrs, both in Virginia and Pittsburgh and hopefully beyond.  I hope these witnesses are more like judges than martyrs. 

It seems to me that TEC just blinked.  I would love to be privy to the conversations that have gone on around the world these past weeks among people who bear so great a burden: the ABC, Primates, and yes the ACC.  I expect it didn’t go the way the HOB of TEC hoped.

[36] Posted by Ed McNeill on 10-31-2007 at 11:47 PM • top

I think Mrs. Schori is feeling invincible, actually. Or at least she’s pretending to. But why shouldn’t she throw her weight around? All kinds of abuses in faith and morals have been going on in TEC for years - for decades - and nobody is stopping them. Now same sex blessings are popping up all over the place. Some of the orthodox bishops seem to have lost some of their will. Why indeed shouldn’t she feel confident in her position of strength? The woman is unbelievably arrogant. And addressing Bishop Duncan as “Bob” in a letter like this is odd to say the least. As for the episcopal visitor offer - is she really that clueless? I don’t think so.

[37] Posted by Nellie on 11-01-2007 at 12:55 AM • top

Rolling Eyes said:
Dear Katie,
NUTS!
Sincerely,
. . .
Short and to the point.  Pretty much says it all.  Explicit, direct, positive, informative.  Pretty much sums it up, in my opinion.  Yes, it appears to be a good and valid response.

[38] Posted by Donal Clair on 11-01-2007 at 01:11 AM • top

Is PB Schori any relation to Dolores Umbridge? Does anyone know? That letter struck me as Umbridgean in tone.

[39] Posted by Matthew A (formerly mousestalker) on 11-01-2007 at 02:39 AM • top

And I recall the ‘whew, whew’ from the Bennison news just prior flashing before me.

Perhaps we are in our ABC’s. Ackerman, skipped. Bennison, slapped. Duncan, warned. Howe, promoted. Iker, ? Schofield, ?

[40] Posted by southernvirginia1 on 11-01-2007 at 04:03 AM • top

Wouldn’t it be wonderful if Bishop Duncan were to respond by asking +KJS if her letter means that she and ECUSA are now prepared to repent of their heresies and return to the faith once delivered.

YES!

[41] Posted by Athanasius Returns on 11-01-2007 at 04:44 AM • top

I could be mistaken, but I think the usual etiquette is for bishops to address each other by their Christian names.  Had KJS done otherwise, she might have been accused of being unnecessarily formal and been criticized for that.  I’m not defending the letter: it’s positively evil, and dripping with nastiness and vitriol.  It is as disingenuous as the “reaching out” headline of her ENS minions.  But I’m not sure the salutation was inappropriate.

[42] Posted by VaAnglican on 11-01-2007 at 05:11 AM • top

Note:

Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori is making public a letter of warning that is being sent to a bishop who is actively seeking to withdraw his diocese from the Episcopal Church, and has stated that letters to other bishops will follow.

There are more letters to come. This was timed for the conditions at hand.

[43] Posted by Dr. N. on 11-01-2007 at 05:35 AM • top

Rolling eyes,
Reading the PB’s letter the same thought ran through my head but ya beat me to it.  We must continue to pray for them all.

[44] Posted by johnd on 11-01-2007 at 05:44 AM • top

Murbles,
The story makes it clear that Bishop Iker’s letter is soon going to be on the way very soon. “Jefferts Schori intends to send a letter to Bishop Jack Iker, who advocates these changes, before the convention [in two weeks] notifying him that such a step would force her to take action to bring the diocese and its leadership into line with the mandates of the national Church.”

The ENS story also speaks about “the three bishops” who have supported such constitutional changes. Clearly that includes +Duncan and +Iker. I suspect the third Beers has in mind is +Schofield, since Quincy delayed amending its accession clause to dump TEC just last week.

[45] Posted by texanglican on 11-01-2007 at 06:03 AM • top

I have a serious question, and would appreciate a thoughtful answer from someone versed in the appropriate Canons.
If ever there was a candidate for presentment and inhibition it is Kathryn Schori. I will not catalogue her “manifold sins and wickedness” but as an example do point to her out and out, calculated, intentional lies to the Primates of the Church on at least two seperate occasions. Denying of the clear word of God in reference to sexual perversion is another. How about Christ is the only way to the Father? She has unmistakeably denied that central piece of the faith. Initiating and prosecuting specifically Scripturally forbidden civil suits against faithfull Christians, even laymen, is another foul little item for consideration.

I, for one, have had enough of this woman and her pagan ways, and have no doubt at all that she should be removed as a bishop. Anyone else who wants to sign a presentment? It wouldn’t go very far I’m sure, but I would relish making a noisy media spectacle of bringing it in person to her Manhattan lair.  Anyone?  New York is nice in the Autumn.

[46] Posted by teddy mak on 11-01-2007 at 06:05 AM • top

I’ve been reading the depos - it is amazing to read the depos and then the next day or a few days later to see the latest “actions” from 815.  Even Bennison’s inhibition - after all these years - comes at a most prudent moment in the pre-trial activities.  You might call it a particular “lens” - but believe me, it’s a lens that includes 815, the leadership of the Diocese of Virginia, the leadership of the Anglican Communion Office and Canterbury himself. 

I guess what I would encourage us right now is to pray, to discern, and to pause a moment as we watch 815 campaign - not just through press releases but through particular actions over the next two weeks.  The Bennison action and the Duncan letter are no accidents, friends.

Watch and pray.

bb

[47] Posted by BabyBlue on 11-01-2007 at 06:14 AM • top

Teddy Mak, could we charge her with abandonment?

[48] Posted by oscewicee on 11-01-2007 at 06:43 AM • top

A few weeks ago Virtue I believe reported the rumor that GS primates would this month be announcing their intent to recognize an alternative provincial structure in the United States.  Any further news there?  Such a move would explode a bomb in the middle of TEC’s division arguments being presented to the Virginia court at trial beginning on the 13th.  I agree with BB that ++KJS’s moves are timed to coincide with the trial, where TEC will be defending against the division argument.  Essentially, TEC argues that there is no division because a division within a hierarchical church can occur only when the church hierarchy approves of the division.  (This raises the obvious question of when in the past a church body has ever of its own volition decided to divide itself.)  815 is trying to burnish its bona fides as the tip of a TEC hierarchy.  (Another question—if TEC is a hierarchy then why would ++KJS need permission to visit the Diocese of Western Kansas, as she specifically stated recently.  This may have been asked of her in her recent videotape deposition.)

[49] Posted by Steven in Falls Church on 11-01-2007 at 06:50 AM • top

if TEC is a hierarchy then why would ++KJS need permission to visit the Diocese of Western Kansas, as she specifically stated recently.

I hope lawyers and all those concerned are watching the words and actions of TEC very carefully for those moments when they slip and their petticoats show.

[50] Posted by oscewicee on 11-01-2007 at 06:55 AM • top

ARTICLE V

Sec. 1 “…After consent of the General Convention, when a certified copy of the duly adopted Constitution of the new Diocese, including an unqualified accession to the Constitution and Canons of this Church, shall have been filed with the Secretary of the General Convention and approved by the Executive Council of this Church, such new Diocese shall thereupon be in union with the General Convention.”

CANON 10

Sec. 4. Whenever a new Diocese shall have organized in Primary Convention in accordance with the provisions of the Constitution and Canons in such case made and provided, and in the manner prescribed in the previous Sections of this Canon, and shall have chosen a name and acceded to the Constitution of the General Convention in accordance with Article V, Section 1 of the Constitution, and shall have laid before the Executive Council certified copies of the Constitution adopted at its Primary Convention, and the proceedings preparatory to the formation of the proposed new Diocese, such new Diocese shall thereupon be admitted into union with the General Convention.

So, accession is required for admission - does anyone know if there is any canonical requirement that a diocese must keep the accession clause, and not leave GC and TEC?  It seems that TEC can make only an indirect trust argument (property held to beneift DFMS/815) via the Dennis Clause… of course, that would seem to counter past behavior vis a vis bishops, dioceses, and property…

[51] Posted by tired on 11-01-2007 at 07:01 AM • top

texanglican,
Quincy passed the first year reading of the amendments allowing them to leave TEC. By canon law, they still have to pass it again next year for it to take effect. They can then decide when to act.

This is the first year for Ft worth to take up the issue, and I believe the first for Pittsburgh. It is the second year for San Joaquin, and was the second for Dallas last month.

Marie at Rez

[52] Posted by Marie Blocher on 11-01-2007 at 07:21 AM • top

“Suddenly radical feminist Presiding Bishop Kathryn is talking about—horror of horrors—Male dominated hierarchical institutions like the Episcopal Church in glowing terms. ”

LOL! then almost ROFLOL!  - very good comment .....

[53] Posted by Martin Reynolds on 11-01-2007 at 07:51 AM • top

NUTS!

[54] Posted by JerryKramer on 11-01-2007 at 08:03 AM • top

I have reviewed a number of these proposed resolutions, and it is evident to me that they would violate the Constitutional requirement that the Diocese conform to the Constitution and Canons of The Episcopal Church.

All hail the Canons, on whom be blessings and peace and honor, forever and ever, Amen!

I call upon you to recede from this direction and to lead your diocese on a new course that recognizes the interdependent and hierarchical relationship between the national Church and its dioceses and parishes. That relationship is at the heart of our mission, as expressed in our polity.

All hail the Holy Polity!  Praise it with great praise!

[55] Posted by st. anonymous on 11-01-2007 at 08:05 AM • top

” It grieves me that any bishop of this Church would seek to lead any of its members out of it. “

On the contrary KJS, it grieves me that any bishop (worth his/her salt) of this Church would continue to keep any of its members IN it…...at least as it is presently constituted. May God bless Bishop Duncan and Diocese of Pittsburgh on their deliberations to uphold the faith once delivered.

[56] Posted by irishanglican on 11-01-2007 at 08:14 AM • top

Steven in Falls Church

I think that there may be some further light on your question about the Global South Primates and a new North American province on 22-23 November. That is when there is a conference being held in Burlington, Ontario, Canada at which a lot of things are to be revealed. I do know that at least one bishop here in Canada is surrendering his license to the Anglican Church of Canada and receiving a new license from another province on that date. But what happens beyond that is not clear as yet.

The entire issue of dioceses belonging to the national structures here in Canada is far more unsure and complex as there is no overarching set of Canons in Canada. The Canadian church is really a federation of independent dioceses. The provinces (four of them) have a lot more potential authority and certainly can withdraw authority from General Synod. It also is complicated by different forms of legislation on the matter existing in different parts of the country. Here in Ontario and east there is at least the argument that the Archbishop of Canterbury still has real authority over the Metropolitan and the bishops. So a Primate cannot inhibit a diocesan bishop. Only the Metropolitan has that authority and under very limited circumstances.

[57] Posted by Cdn Anglican on 11-01-2007 at 08:22 AM • top

The question for the future of the Church (as opposed to the church) is: Will the Archbishop of Canterbury recognize the inhibition or deposition of Bishop Robert Duncan.  His letter to Bishop Howe would imply that he would not.  All the wealth and power of TEC will be employed to entice or force him to accede to the will of KJS.  So, will ++Rowan stand by his words to Bishops of the Church, or succumb to the will of the bishops of the “church”?

[58] Posted by tjmcmahon on 11-01-2007 at 08:38 AM • top

I continue to pray for reconciliation of this situation…

Is it only me, or do these words seem rather hollow given what precedes them?

[59] Posted by notworthyofthename on 11-01-2007 at 08:43 AM • top

“Will the Archbishop of Canterbury recognize the inhibition or deposition of Bishop Robert Duncan.(?)

The evidence from Recife would say: Yes.

[60] Posted by Martin Reynolds on 11-01-2007 at 08:45 AM • top

I agree with Martin Reynolds.  I think that Canterbury will not recognize deposed bishops of ECUSA.

Of course, lots of Primates will, and the division within the Anglican Communion will continue on apace.

I’m sad about that . . . but that is the consequences of August, 2003, and we move on.

[61] Posted by Sarah on 11-01-2007 at 08:49 AM • top

Well we can see what the Executive Council were actually getting up to.  Still a total failure to address the persecution of conservatives and the APO issue where parishes and possibly now dioceses are voting with their feet.  There does seem to be a reliance on the ABC and the Delphic machinations of the ACO to give legitimacy to the only string apparently in the TEC quiver, litigation.

At the end of the day, TEC is ‘tiny’ compared with the size of the provinces which have felt it necessary to intervene and carrying on in this manner will only split the Communion further and risk any efforts that there have been to heal and mend the tear.

What a tragedy if TEC and the PB do not have the will to try a more Christian approach.  I suspect that it would have more chance of success. 

Tragic.

[62] Posted by Pageantmaster [Free Archbishop Cranmer] on 11-01-2007 at 08:57 AM • top

Schori & Co. need to realize that even if they get the buildings there will be no people in them and if there are they will be few and not enough to make up the $ deficit. Then she will sale the buildings and then what? There are fish that eat their own and that is exactly what Schori as the oceanographer/marine biologist is doing. It is like second nature to her. Her track record from Neveda to 815 speaks loudly!

[63] Posted by TLDillon on 11-01-2007 at 09:18 AM • top

How ‘bout all us dioceses, including Pittsburgh, just ignore the “abstract reality” of the National Church? 

Thank you, +++RW!!

[64] Posted by Passing By on 11-01-2007 at 09:27 AM • top

Agree with Martin and Sarah.  There’s little chance Rowan Williams has the courage to stand up against a decision of the lawfully constituted authority of this province.  After all, he’s wedded to catholic order, defined, unfortunately, not as anything having to do with the Catholic Faith, but as doing what your bishop tells you to do, or else - whether or not that bishop teaches heresy and glorifies the god of the belly (Phil 3:18-19).

[65] Posted by Phil on 11-01-2007 at 09:38 AM • top

It is most sad to me that, with only two or three notable exceptions, the “Windsor Bishops” will lift not a finger to help or stand with this brave Bishop. In fact, many of their actions have given the Presiding Bishop cover for her emerging strategy. They remind me of those early members of the Confessing Church who withdrew from the fight when the German Gov’t raised the heat, leaving only Bonhoeffer and a few others.

[66] Posted by Going Home on 11-01-2007 at 09:41 AM • top

“I continue to pray for reconciliation of this situation”, and what you’re really supposed to do, *Bob*, is knuckle under. 

Interesting that this woman’s version of “reconciliation” includes a threat of presentment. 

And, yes, I agree with Sarah that the first step towards REAL reconciliation would involve a setup of alternative PRIMATIAL oversight; but, oooooo, that would mean that Katie here would stand to lose a whole lot of face, not to mention other little legal things. 

I think another word I’m casting about for is “gutless”...

Bishop Duncan is anything but gutless—I await his illustrious reply.

[67] Posted by Passing By on 11-01-2007 at 09:41 AM • top

I have been a member of various churches all my life, and have seen a lot of things, profane, silly, and sacred.  But even so, I find your umbrage at systematic implementation of agreed upon procedures very peculiar.  Of course it’s painful; both “sides” are experiencing loss.  However, to ignore the systems that are in place would only make things much, much worse. 

I have been involved in “micro-schisms”, and when that happened, if the leadership was faithful to pre-agreed upon procedures, they implemented them as carefully, objectively and lovingly as they could.  Leadership does not make it up as they go along.  Yet when Bishop Katharine attempts to follow these procedures, her faith and motives are doubted.  I think that this reveals much more about her accusers than it does about her.

[68] Posted by KJthurible on 11-01-2007 at 09:49 AM • top

Will Rowan Williams recognize the deposition?  We need to consult the full version of the letter to Howe:

“I would repeat what I’ve said several times before - that any Diocese compliant with Windsor remains clearly in communion with Canterbury and the mainstream of the Communion, whatever may be the longer-term result for others in The Episcopal Church. Unless you get into trouble, in which case, hey, don’t look at me. The organ of union with the wider Church is the Bishop and the Diocese rather than the Provincial structure as such.  Unless the Provincial structure as such says something different.”

[69] Posted by wildfire on 11-01-2007 at 09:51 AM • top

Is PB KJS’ heavy handed verbage a result of ++Rowan’s recent letter to Bp Howe?

[70] Posted by TX Ranger on 11-01-2007 at 09:52 AM • top

Actually, KJthurible, her faith is doubted because of what she herself says about her faith, and her motives are doubted because she says one thing to the Primates, another thing to the House of Bishops, another to Integrity/Claiming the Blessing/Via Media/Oasis/Every Voice Network Inc., ad nauseum.

[71] Posted by Phil on 11-01-2007 at 09:59 AM • top

Folks it might be helpful to send +Duncan an email and let him know that you are praying for him and for the Diocese of Pittsburgh.

Just something simple and short to let him know you’re with him.

RSB

[72] Posted by R S Bunker on 11-01-2007 at 10:00 AM • top

Good idea, RSB!!!!

[73] Posted by Hosea6:6 on 11-01-2007 at 10:09 AM • top

KJthurible

They are following proceedures??? On what grounds.

Imagine a police officer is speeding down your street.  You flag him down and say you shouldn’t be speeding.  He says not only will i speed but you will also.  When you say now way, he writes you a ticket for speeding.

The leadership of TEC has abandoned the communion of the Church through its own actions.  The few bishops with any courage to say “we won’t go there” are the ones that will be charged with abandoning the communion.  Does that make sense to you?

I don’t doubt her faith or her motives.  I know exactly what they are and where they are coming from and neither bring Glory to God or futher the cause of the Gospel.

[74] Posted by rreed on 11-01-2007 at 10:10 AM • top

Baby Blue is right that this letter is part of 815’s coordinated strategy, of which the Virginia litigation is a sigificant component. I would argue that the the PB’s letter is also designed to advance 815’s goals with the following targets as well:

1. Bp. Duncan. 815’s message: You’re in our crosshairs. Go ahead, make our day.

2. Other rebellious dioceses. 815’s message: You have a nice diocese there. It would be a shame if anything happened to it.

3. Diocesan bishops who don’t crack the whip against rebellious parishes. 815’s message: Don’t even think about cutting deals with your reactionary malcontents. Bp. Howe, that includes you.

4. The ABC. 815’s message: We’re going to do what we like to our reactionary malcontents, regardless of what you say or do, and you can’t stop us.

5. The GS Primates. 815’s message: Ditto.

6. The ACO. 815’s message: You have a nice office there. It would be a shame if anything happened to it.

7. Integrity. 815’s message: See, your criticism of us after New Orleans was misplaced. Cut us a break. Watch our actions, not our words for the ABC.

Note the wholesale absence of any Christian characteristics, such as love, mercy, etc. from this letter. I’ll bet a nickel that Mr. Beers drafted this letter.

Note well that this letter effectively dismisses the ABC and Primates as serious actors in the litigation or coming depositions. This letter is written as if the Anglican Communion simply does not exist. 815 either knows that the ABC or Primates will do nothing, or they have calculated that they can safely disregard any reaction from the Communion. Clearly, 815 thinks that their tactical position is very strong. I am a little surprised by that level of confidence, particularly because 815 cannot know what effect anything that the Primates (or even if the ABC) do in coming weeks might have on a secular court handling the litigation. In effect, this letter calculates that nothing the ABC, the Primates, or anyone else says or does will influence what the secular courts will do. That is very aggressive position, and maybe reveals pride and overconfidence.

[75] Posted by Publius on 11-01-2007 at 10:12 AM • top

I’m sitting here reading the lessons today for All Saint’s, one of which is the Beatitudes from Matthew’s Gospel.  Two thougths: 1. reading this letter there is a great disconnect between our leadership in TEC and what Jesus asks of us in the Gospels.  2. Blessed are Bishop Duncan and Bishop Iker - rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven.

[76] Posted by rreed on 11-01-2007 at 10:24 AM • top

bb:
Please keep us informed as well as you can!  I do agree that 815 does not make a move without serious calculation.  I intend to be physically present in the court room and spiritually present in prayer for the trial.  I ask that our sisters and brothers join us in prayer on Nov. 19 through the end of the trial.  The success or failure of this lawsuit for TEC is incalculable, either way.  If they lose, it could well be the first of many dominoes to fall.

[77] Posted by Petra on 11-01-2007 at 10:29 AM • top

Nellie,
As for the episcopal visitor offer - is she really that clueless? I don’t think so.
There are times, particularly when reading her sermon delivered in New Orleans, that I do think she is clueless, therefore the need for lawyers.

[78] Posted by Betty See on 11-01-2007 at 10:46 AM • top

Correcting my post above, the first two lines should have been in quotes.

[79] Posted by Betty See on 11-01-2007 at 10:50 AM • top

She hasn’t written anything like this to +Fort Worth, +Quincy, or +San Joaquin, has she?

You can be sure that their missives are posted and ready to mail on the dates necessary to reach them before their diocesan conventions.

[80] Posted by terrafirma on 11-01-2007 at 10:54 AM • top

Take a look at 1 Corinthians chapter 6 if you have a minute. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Corinthians 6;&version=31;

Ironically, Paul talks not only about sexual immorality but also about secular lawsuits right here in this one chapter. 
Of course, St. Paul opposes all lawsuits in secular courts among believers, and all sexual activity outside the bonds of marriage. Perhaps that page got ripped out of their bible. When you have little use for St. Paul, this is what happens.

Hopefully these pathetic threats will only serve to strengthen our resolve during these sad days for TEC where they continue to show their true colors.

[81] Posted by Tony Romo on 11-01-2007 at 10:58 AM • top

terrafirma,
Let me repost what I posted way up the thread:

The PB did write something similar to Bishop Schofiled about this time last year. Here is the link to the story and the letter:

http://www.episcopalchurch.org/3577_79844_ENG_HTM.htm

And this is the link of Bishop Schofield’s response to Schori
http://titusonenine.classicalanglican.net/?p=16463

[82] Posted by TLDillon on 11-01-2007 at 10:59 AM • top

I urge all to take advantage of ONE DAY CLOSER’S links above.  When Schori states that (+John-David Schofield’s) actions will put “many, many at hazard of profound spiritual violence”, one can not conjure adjectives to probably comment on this statement considering who she is and what she has done and said.  She makes it very clear that she does not belong in her position and the organization that proclaims and supports her is beyond repair without serious, serious repentance.  Bishop Duncan will match +John-David’s response to her with equal integrity and preciseness.

[83] Posted by Petra on 11-01-2007 at 11:27 AM • top

I had a really long comment to make…..

Then I saw the “NO-WHINING, NO-FREAKOUT ZONE” reminder, and realized I couldn’t publish my response to this evil woman’s crazy letter to Bishop Duncan.

Oh well…

[84] Posted by HeartAfire on 11-01-2007 at 11:36 AM • top

It is sad to see the Episcopal Church be done in as it appears it inevitably is going to be. This letter to the good bishop tells it all. First, the TEC news agency calls it reaching out; it is nothing short of a threat. And secondly, the letter clearly is not one of reconciliation, but of underlying hostility. TEC has lost its way, and I believe is no longer a Christian church. I ask all to pray for the Diocese of Pittsburg and the other dioceses that are being threatened/pursecuted. Pray that primates come to the aid of their Christians brothers and sisters. Pray that the ABC has the clarity to see the pursecution for what it is and to finally take action. Pray for those individual churches that are not in Christian dioceses in TEC. And finally pray for those who have lost their way; who have fallen out of love with Jesus and of remembering the sacrifice he made for our sins. Remember for much of history, it has not been easy to be a Christian. But trusting in Jesus, the victory already has been won, regardless of what TEC does to faithful Christians.

[85] Posted by Howard M. on 11-01-2007 at 12:33 PM • top

Regarding the Donal Clair statement, “NUTS!”  It may have been offered (hopefully it was)  in the spirit of a very famous major event that occurred during the Battle of the Bulge in WWII.

The message was brought in to the Division Headquarters by Major Alvin Jones, the S-3, and Colonel Harper, the Regimental Commander. They brought the message to me, the G-3 and Paul Danahy, the G-2. My first reaction was that this was a German ruse, designed to get our men out of their fox holes. But be that as it might, we agreed that we needed to take the message up the line. We took it first to the acting Chief of Staff of the Division, Lt. Col. Ned Moore. With him, we took the message to the acting Division Commander General Tony McAuliffe. Moore told General McAuliffe that we had a German surrender ultimatum. The General’s first reaction was that the Germans wanted to surrender to us. Col. Moore quickly disabused him of that notion and explained that the German’s demanded our surrender. When McAuliffe heard that he laughed and said: “Us surrender? Aw, nuts!” the date was December 22nd, 1944

“US SURRENDER? AW, NUTS!” kind of fits this situation as well.

[86] Posted by Albeit on 11-01-2007 at 02:57 PM • top

Speaking of trials….If Duncan does get a presentment brought against him, and there’s a trial (this could happen, right?) that could be a really good thing. What better venue to make a j-accuse against TEC and to reiterate yet again what Duncan has been saying—we’re not leaving TEC, TEC is leaving us!

[87] Posted by DavidSh on 11-01-2007 at 03:08 PM • top

It is amazing that our highness can give Dear BOB notice concerning legislation to leave TEC. I bet she never gets the letter to the Diocese of CA concerning SSB.

Has anyone ever made a challenge to TEC as a “franchise” and making a change as a franchise. ( Not a lawyer & don’t play one on TV ).

[88] Posted by Mtn gospel on 11-01-2007 at 03:45 PM • top

tired

The TEC has become the Hotel California ...

“You can check-in any time you want, but you can NEVER leave!”

Regards, Conrad

[89] Posted by Conrad on 11-01-2007 at 05:44 PM • top

The way that KJS ends this letter is an absolute scream: “I remain
Your servant in Christ,
Katharine Jefferts Schori.”  I mean, c’mon; is that about the funniest thing you’ve ever read?

[90] Posted by Bob K. on 11-02-2007 at 12:40 AM • top

In effect, this letter calculates that nothing the ABC, the Primates, or anyone else says or does will influence what the secular courts will do.

Publius, in effect, I think this letter calculates that the ABC will do nothing, and that the Primates will not be allowed to meet as a body before Lambeth and so they will do nothing, and that Lambeth will be a tea party in which TEC faces no consequences for its actions, and so it will do nothing.

The one person who can make a difference to this scenario is Rowan Williams.  A consistent pattern to his actions, beginning after Dromantine, repeated at DES, and confirmed by the absolute non-event that happened after September 30, would seem to indicate that TEC can have a certain amount of confidence in its predictions.

I would rejoice should I be proven wrong.

[91] Posted by William Witt on 11-02-2007 at 06:25 AM • top

Bob K, it is kind of hard to detect the servanthood, isn’t it?

I am afraid William Witt has the right of it. All is Well (TM) may actually prove to be true for KJS and TEC when it comes to any consequences for rupturing the communion. It must be very gratifying for her.

[92] Posted by oscewicee on 11-02-2007 at 06:38 AM • top

William:
9/30 was the last day for compliance by HOB & TEC to the Primate’s mandate, not the day that +++Rowan was to take action. After that date he polled all of the Primates, and most of the Bishops in the Communion, an exercise for which he allowed a 30 day time frame, which is reasonable. That has now been accomplished. He has not given any notice as to when he will act on the data accumulated.
Reason impels it cannot be long before he speaks. An explosion of legal actions, civil and canonical, approaches at full speed, which even he must recognize. His letter to +Howe is sure evidence that he is very aware that the explosion-implosion is now days or weeks away. The facts have not changed. Massive storms are brewing in CoE, North America and Africa, storms which will destroy the Northern European dominated Anglican Communion if he missteps.
+++Rowan is the product of, and master of, the Byzantine back stair manouvering of Whitehall and Canterbury. Thus, I remain convinced he will be expedient in his moves, and will (sadly for him) distance us all from the ridiculous, tiny and really unpleasant PAC that The Episcopal Church has become. I think he goes with the numbers. I doubt he will agonize whether or not it is the right thing to do. Perhaps later in his autobiography.
If he doesn’t, he knows millions of us world wide will structure a new Anglican Communion, making the See of Canterbury a footnote in history, not a chapter of it. I don’t see him allowing that to happen.
As an aside, I find it reasonable that Schori could be going on the offense because she knows she has lost the arguement, not because she is assured +++Rowan will back her position.

Pray for her conversion.

[93] Posted by teddy mak on 11-02-2007 at 07:53 AM • top

Dr. Witt, Thank you for your response. Of course I agree that, if the Holy Spirit manages to bestir the ABC to do the right thing concerning TEC, that would be cause for great rejoicing.

I think that Rowan can no longer control this situation. If he won’t act, others will. If the ABC prevents a formal meeting of Primates from convening, some or most of them may meet anyway, or at least talk by phone and coordinate their actions. Rowan cannot prevent that any longer.

The Presiding Bishop’s overconfidence is that she cannot know what the effect of all this turmoil may be on a secular court in the litigation. A secular court might view the Primates, or some of them, acting over the opposition of the ABC to discipline TEC as evidence equally indicative of a division as that where Rowan himself disciplines TEC. The PB’s letter seems to dismiss this legal danger to TEC. I am surprised that Chancellor Beers’ firm did not incorporate that realization into the text of the PB’s letter.

[94] Posted by Publius on 11-02-2007 at 08:17 AM • top

teddymark and Publius,

Yep. 
Both of you present likely alternative possibilities of future action.  If RW does not act within a reasonable amount of time, a sizable number of Primates will act without him.  Indeed, they are already doing so.  If he does act, the consequences for TEC (from the revisionist perspective) will be disastrous.


 

If he doesn’t, he knows millions of us world wide will structure a new Anglican Communion, making the See of Canterbury a footnote in history, not a chapter of it. I don’t see him allowing that to happen.

This is a reasonable reading of the situation, and up until DES, this is the decision I believed that RW would have to make.  But again, a consistent pattern of his actions, beginning with a Panel of Reference that was designed not to work, and confirmed by DES and following, has convinced me that RW seems determined not to discipline TEC, and that he belives that if he can just delay and delay, he can not only prevent TEC discipline, but also wear out those who attempt to do so, and yet still prevent significant losses to the Communion.  I could list a series of his actions/non-actions that have led me to this conclusion, but they have been discussed to no end on StandFirm and T19.

I think this is also how KJS and the HOB read the situation.  They act not so much as those who act courageously, standing by their convictions, and willing to accept the necessary consequences, but smugly, as if they know something about why there will be no consequences to their actions.

Again, I hope and pray that I am mistaken.

[95] Posted by William Witt on 11-02-2007 at 08:36 AM • top

the lines in the sand are indeed becoming brighter all the time

[96] Posted by aacswfl1 on 11-02-2007 at 09:44 AM • top

teddymark, Publius, and Willaim Witt: 
Right on, but I would make one prediction, William Witt, in respect to your last post directly above: 
This time, I do not think, I can not even begin to believe that those at this moment in history, after all that is behind us and before us,  that +++RW’s habitual tactic of delay, delay wlll break the will of those who demand:
1. discipline of TEC
2. a North American safe place for the orthodox

Discipline of TEC probably won’t happen, and so be it, but an orthodox safe place is within our grasp while ECUSA continues to trolley down its own path of heretical destruction. The GS primates, the members of CCP and every individual in the Communion, well known or otherwise who have drawn that line in the sand are not going to budge.  I have been in the presence of Bishop Akinola (and others from the GS) and I can not imagine this Man of God moving an inch from his plan to offer support for those entrapped within organizations like TEC.  It seems clear to me from what he has said and written that the Communion, as it stands today, though important is not as critical to him as upholding the Word of God.  RW’s refusal to call a meeting of the Primates will not silence them.

So, I believe that the typical “consistent pattern of his (RW’s) actions” will not “wear (us) down” but be trumped by the consistent pattern of toughness by the primates and all who have benefitted by their unflinching support.

[97] Posted by Petra on 11-02-2007 at 11:54 AM • top

I suspect that making a safe place for the orthodox is a pre-condition for sorting out the rest; something TEC do not seem to have either understood or been prepared to face.  The continuing persecution just aggravates the rest of the Communion.

[98] Posted by Pageantmaster [Free Archbishop Cranmer] on 11-02-2007 at 12:02 PM • top

I am feeling like many of us blame KJS for the agressive legal and, for want of a better word, theology.  But I do not believe she has the education or experience for either.  I think she is clueless without whoever is the power behind the throne.  Who would actually be running the show at TEC?

[99] Posted by Elizabeth on 11-02-2007 at 12:20 PM • top

GUYS…HEADS UP… the anglican Tv is livestreaming Bishop Duncan’s address NOW

[100] Posted by Houseownedbythedog3 on 11-02-2007 at 12:22 PM • top

Elizabeth:
He (or she) who accepts the leadership position shoulders the blame.  Schori has had plenty of time to educate herself.  A daily reading of Stand Firm, Titus, and VOL, not to mention The Lectionary and the Bible could certainly render her better educated.

[101] Posted by Petra on 11-02-2007 at 01:05 PM • top

Petra, thank you for that astute, last post of yours. A combative late uncle of mine used to say to those who would expect an apology from him: “You’ll never live long enough!” This seems to be the case with those who still cling to the hope that +++Rowan will discipline TEC. If he hasnt by now, then when would one suppose that this will occur? Hasnt enough heresy flowed out from ECUSA over the past decade or so to warrent serious discipline (if indeed one expected some godly rebuke to issue from Caterbury in the first place)? Its quite apparent that he has no intention of doing so, and that his focus is trying to force light and darkness to fellowship, which is, of course, an impossibility (2 Cor. 6:14,15). You finished by writing: “So, I believe that the typical “consistent pattern of his (RW’s) actions” will not “wear (us) down” but be trumped by the consistent pattern of toughness by the primates and all who have benefitted by their unflinching support.” I think the link provided by Allan Bourdius above bears this out.

[103] Posted by Bob K. on 11-02-2007 at 01:37 PM • top

House,
Yes, she carries the blame and is she bright enough to know that much.  I just wondered who is proping her up.  Who makes up the “inner circle”?  Who makes her decisions when to do what?  I do not believe she is bright enough to coordinate, let alone direct, all this on her own.

[104] Posted by Elizabeth on 11-02-2007 at 02:03 PM • top

Elizabeth writes:

House,
Yes, she carries the blame and is she bright enough to know that much. I
just wondered who is proping her up. Who makes up the “inner circle”? Who
makes her decisions when to do what? I do not believe she is bright enough
to coordinate, let alone direct, all this on her own.

Elizabeth,
Jefferts-Schori is brilliant. And she has special power. And she has followers. It’s hard to determine when she’s pushing or when she’s pulling. But she actually seems to be in charge. I remain hopeful that such as +Duncan have a full force of right power on their side. And that this whole debacle and spectacle that is finally coming to a head in our generation resolves wihtthe light shining from the faithful remnant instead of judgement obviuosly heaped upon all of us.
best regards, SVa1

[105] Posted by southernvirginia1 on 11-02-2007 at 02:12 PM • top

SVa1,
Thank You!  You told me who is her inner circle of one.  And, of course, you are right.

best to you,
Liz

[106] Posted by Elizabeth on 11-02-2007 at 02:50 PM • top

Bp. John Howe, of Central Florida has publically written Jefferts-Schori rebuking her letter to Duncan, which he rightly calls “a thinly veiled threat to resort to litigation.” (Hat-tip to Virtueonline, where I found this.)  How continues both to support the right of Pittsburg to withdraw, and to rebuke Schori, politely, for harming relationships in the Body of Christ, and our witness to the world.  Moreover—this is really newsworthy—Howe (Howe!!) says that Dioceses voluntarity join and can separate from TEC:

“Dioceses voluntarily join (accede to) The Episcopal Church. And they can voluntarily determine to separate from (withdraw their accession from) The Episcopal Church.

During the Civil War, the Dioceses within the Confederate States withdrew from The Episcopal Church without penalty. They were reunited when that terrible war ended. Perhaps there will be a reunion of presently seceding Dioceses at some point in our future, as well.

But just now, to threaten litigation, especially in the face of the unanimous exhortation from the Primates in Dar es Salaam (an exhortation you agreed to) to end such litigation, is deeply troubling. I beg you to stand down.

This can only harm our relationships as fellow members of the Body of Christ and our witness to the outside world”

[107] Posted by Scruff on 11-03-2007 at 02:28 AM • top

Scruff siad:

Bp. John Howe, of Central Florida has publically written Jefferts-Schori
rebuking her letter to Duncan, which he rightly calls “a thinly veiled
threat to resort to litigation.” (Hat-tip to Virtueonline, where I found
this.) How continues both to support the right of Pittsburg to withdraw,
and to rebuke Schori, politely, for harming relationships in the Body of
Christ, and our witness to the world. Moreover—this is really newsworthy
—Howe (Howe!!) says that Dioceses voluntarity join and can separate from
TEC:

“Dioceses voluntarily join (accede to) The Episcopal Church. And they can
voluntarily determine to separate from (withdraw their accession from) The
Episcopal Church.

So much for my ABC scheme…Howe, demoted…

[108] Posted by southernvirginia1 on 11-03-2007 at 10:33 AM • top

I agree with most here: This was a courageous letter from +Howe.  I’m not optimistic that it will be heeded by the Scorched Earth Cabal at 815, but it spoke truth to mindless power at any rate.

I’m hoping the NHS will cover the testosterone injection that ++Rowan clearly needs at the moment.

[109] Posted by Jeffersonian on 11-03-2007 at 10:40 AM • top

Elizabeth,
It seems to me that those who presented her for election as Presiding Bishop saw someone who could be useful to them and that she is willing to take the heat for them. I do think she is unfamiliar with Scripture.
I know this is not very realistic but there are times when I hope that she will learn to understand Scripture and the Holy Spirit and be converted to Christianity.
Let us pray that God will inspire her with His grace and that she will shake off the lawyers and powerful interest groups which surround her and do His will.

[110] Posted by Betty See on 11-03-2007 at 03:51 PM • top

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