+Akinola: Why we may boycott Lambeth Conference

Will the ABC say, “I can do no other, but compromise?”

I think the ABC will say, “Here I straddle; I can do both.”

If, say, the bishops of the four TEC dioceses presently considering on pulling out of the General Convention church are accepted into an overseas province before Lambeth, would they also still be invited to attend? They all four have invitations in hand today, but what if they are under the jurisdiction of an overseas primate by late next summer? They would be in the same position as Bishop Minns then. Do you think ABC would pull their invitations if they are no longer under PB Schori by the date of Lambeth?

I believe +Rowan is on record as saying that the Anglican Communion is diocese based. Were he to be consistent, then the invitations would stand. Then again, I may be wrong about his position.

Anyone want to start a betting pool?

I acknowledge that the drama is gripping, but let’s not start a betting pool, please.

Tex, I predict their invitation to this Lambeth will stand—since it has already been issued, but it will be the LAST invitation they ever get to any international Canterbury-Lambeth affairs.

Like, ‘you’re coming one last time and that’s it!  Next time we really mean it!’ (?)  Sure, that’a a great strategy.  Orthodox believers will really get behind that.

GB,

That’s nothing more than wishful thinking on your part. You don’t really think Rowan Williams will dis-invite Fort Worth, Pittsburgh, San Joaquin and Quincy, just because they left TEC, do you?

Well, September 30 and October 31 have passed. What are we waiting on to happen in Lambeth? Does it matter if anyone goes to the conference?

The Episcopal Church considers itself the master race, and we see their innovations emerging in the streets of San Francisco. By the Primates’ inaction, I can only conclude they want these innovations.

No use arguing with liberals. We have the Church to build up.

Dr. N.—Your impatience is understandable but your conclusion may be premature.

Q:  What’s the difference between a glacier and the Anglican Communion?
A:  With sufficiently sensitive instruments, scientists can detect the movement of a glacier.

You mean there IS a difference?

TexAnglican, et al-
So far as I know, +RW has yet to pull Bennison’s invitation, and he’s inhibited by none other than KJS.  I really don’t see him pulling +Pittsburgh’s (or +FW, or +Quincy, or +SJ) invitation- which would effectively sunder the Communion, and probably once and for all.  Maybe he could get away with it if he withdrew the invitation of every bishop who voted for VGR, AND every bishop who had allowed a SSB in his/her diocese, including KJS.  But, somehow, I can’t see him doing that either.  After all, he has allowed KJS to get away (at least so far) with the direct slap in the face she gave him by writing her letter to +Bob Duncan, since that letter specifically contradicts +Rowan’s letter to +Howe concerning authority of the “national church.” 
    A better way for +Rowan to prevent a major split in the church would be to refuse an invitation to whatever puppet bishop KJS might try to set in the see of Pittsburgh or Fort Worth, and maintain the invitation to the rightful Bishop.  Which is what his letter to +Howe implies he would do.  If his word on that means nothing, we would all be better off heading for our local Roman, Lutheran, or Reformed Church or whatever we call the “new” Anglican Church that rises from the ashes of the Communion.
    The ABoC’s choice is pretty clear- he can defend the Faith once delivered, or not.  Personally, I am trying to figure out how to go about joining the diocese of Quincy (the closest Anglo Catholic diocese) without living there.  Obviously, I cannot accede to the “affirmations” of the diocese of Northern Michigan - http://www.upepiscopal.org/Hiawathaland/CIHSEPT2007.pdf - (see page 2B) without damning my own soul (knowing full well that I am not the “only begotten child of God”- as the “affirmations” would have me believe).  And how it is that neither TEC nor the Anglican Communion has officially denied or corrected those affirmations is a symtom of the plague that has been visited on this church.
  The one bit of good news, for the future of a united Anglican Communion, in the good Archbishop Akinola’s statement is that the dialogue is continuing between +Akinola and the ABoC.  So, perhaps all is not yet lost.  But +Rowan will have to make his choice. When examining this statement from Abp. Akinola in the context of Abp. Gomez statement, and the release from Pittsbugh on resolution one of their convention, it should be obvious that delay is not an option.

Lambeth will go forward and on and all will be invited and all will be well, until it is over and done then the fur will fly somemore over things said and left unsaid, things done and left udone during the Lambeth Luau.
I feel an earthquake of waivering coming on and more of the same “wait until…...” whatever event or deadline is before us now.

Dear tjmcmahon,
If you are clergy—whether ECUSA or from a continuing church—just contact the Diocese of Quincy.  Fellowship is sweet there, and Bishop Ackerman, along with the retired Quincy Bishops know how to provide true pastoral care.  I cheerfully send my husband off the the clergy retreat year after year (even though it leaves me saddled with our 5 little ones for 4 days) because he comes home truly renewed in the Lord and refreshed for a new year of family life and ministry.  It would take a full length article to praise the Spirit-filled and Christ-centered atmosphere in that diocese, so I’ll stop here.  If you are laity, still contact the diocese to find out how they may extend some kind of spiritual help to your church.  Making it onto their prayer list would be invaluable at a time like this.

Oops!  I’m using my husband’s computer to make this post, as well as the one above!  Mario doesn’t have a husband—he’s married to ME, and I’m a bona fide woman!  I hope this thread doesn’t result in some outrageous rumor.  —Nancy

An American picket fence is an uncomfortable place to sit I would have thought.

ABC goes with the wind in all things, so don’t predict his ‘decision’ so far in advance (a day, a month, some years). If we had a leader in the chair, many things would be different.

Pray for ++Nigeria, +Fort Worth, +Pittsburgh, +San Joaquin and +Quincy and others under enormous stress.

Nancy- (Mrs. Mario)-
Just a layman here.  I’ve gone off-topic more than I intended to in the post above.  Sorry for the rant.  Suffice it to say that I have many orthodox clergy (and laity) friends, and plenty of spiritual support from around the world.  And I have it on good authority that I would be accepted as a communicant in more provinces of the AC than the PB or some of the bishops of TEC.  It is something of a spiritual wasteland locally, however.

If the Anglican Communion was of one mind, and the Nigerian bishops were going to spend the time in mutual fellowship, prayer, and discernment on the most effective way to reach the world with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I would feel such expenditure for travel would be worth it.  Unfortunately, the American church has poisoned the well.  The majority of TEC bishops have proven time and again that a man-made political and social agenda has replaced the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  This is the harsh reality.  Realizing this is the case, I can’t think of any reason for the Nigerian Bishops to spend their money to associate with the American bishops.  The Communion is splitting due to the unilateral innovations of TEC, and there is no reason to throw good money in after bad.  To do so would be poor stewardship.

Mousestalker: “I believe +Rowan is on record as saying that the Anglican Communion is diocese based. Were he to be consistent, then the invitations would stand.”
No, they would not. +Robinson is Bishop of a diocese, and he has not (yet) been invited.

I am simply amazed when I encounter orthodox Anglicans in the blogoshere who view a conclusive rift (schism) within the Anglican Communion as a FUTURE event—either a future possibility or a future probability. Today is Monday, November 5th, 2007. The split has ALREADY HAPPENED. It is an event of the past—not the future. It is time for all of you to stop wasting your energy worrying about when the ABC is going to do something decisive. It is actually now well past the time when all true Christians within the Anglican fold should be rallying to the banner of The Lion of Judah… I see that Peter Akinola and Robert Duncan and other godly bishops and priests have already set off to join their forces with—and to stand shoulder to shoulder with—the one true Lord who holds out the promise of Salvation to all who would take up their cross and follow Him… The important question is NOT how the ABC will ultimately decide to respond to the events unfolding within TEC. The really important question is why is ANYBODY still standing on the fence? ...Our FIRST allegiance is to God—to the Triune God identified in the Bible and explicated in the three major Creeds; to our Lord and Savior, Jesus, who is of one substance with the Father; to the Almighty and loving God who did not hesitate to sacrifice his only begotten Son, so that we miserable sinners could once again enjoy fellowship with God and know true freedom. Our first allegiance is NOT to TEC; nor is it to the C of E; nor is it necessarily even to the world-wide Anglican Communion (whatever that may be these days.) Our first allegiance is to Jesus. Forget about the ABC. We are called to follow Jesus. Why are some of you squandering your time and energy worrying about things that are, ultimately, in God’s hands? It is, after all, His church. He will take care of it. And I expect that his way of taking care of His church will entail some surprises for ALL of us mere mortals. But we have His PROMISE that He will, indeed, take very good care of “His own.” The Word of god is a lamp unto our feet—it is NOT a searchlight peering miles down the road ahead of us. We are all called, as individuals and as a church, to put our trust in God and to heed the promptings of the Holy Spirit as we live out our lives as Christians… It seems pretty obvious to me, personally, that the Holy Spirit has been prompting a LOT of people in the Church to rebuke TEC; to call TEC to true repentance; and to maintain a healthy distance from TEC until they heed such rebukes and such calls for repentance. MOST of the “Anglicans” that I know of—most of the “Anglicans” that I know of who are patently and transparently godly, humble, and obedient—have already shaken the dust off their feet… I am truly amazed that some of you have not yet followed their example. What are you really waiting for? Nobody EVER said being a Christian was EASY. We are repeatedly PROMISED (over and over and over again) throughout Scripture that following Jesus is HARD. But we are assured of salvation if we cling to Jesus. Why are some of you STILL clinging to TEC? I genuinely do not understand…

Wayne, you miss the point. What mousetalker is saying is that a diocesan bishop should not be punished for the sins of the province. Gene Robinson is being punished for his state of unrepentant sin.

Well, you can spin mousestalker any way you want—I have my reading of a clear comment, you have yours, robroy.

I smile when I see the words:

Saying that the cost of sponsoring Nigeria’s 130 bishops and their wives to London for the one-month conference was enormous, Akinola said there was no need to go there for “jamboree.”

Just wonder what spouse events they would arrange for +VGR’s partner if they did invite him? Sounds like a sticky wicket for the Lambeth organizers.

Well, you can spin mousestalker any way you want—I have my reading of a clear comment, you have yours, robroy.

Well! Another clear indictation that there are 2 different religions within the Anglican Communion. One interpretes one way and the other another way.

Wormwood is so happy that he can cause confusion with one clearly taking the low road of “I have my thoughts and you have yours.”
End of discussion!

When did “we absolutely will not come if TEC is not disiplined” ie “Road to Lambeth” become “we may not come if you don’t invite all our Bishops”?  African fudge?

I’d rather not be spun. I get dizzy so very easily.

I was actually being rather snarky. Yes, the Archbishop of Canterbury did say that Anglicanism was episco-centric (diocesan friendly?) (pointy hat controlled?) but he has been known to clarify his comments later on to mean something else entirely.

PadreWayne’s point about +Gene is a good one. If he were consistent about the diocese thingy, then +Gene already would be prepping for tea and crumpets with the Queen. And he has said he could withdraw invitations, if he saw the need.

Which is why I favour a betting pool. It lets us speculate as to the future, and converts what is a very serious matter into a light hearted game. That might help some of those who are hurting right now, as well as aid in the discussion of the aforesaid weighty matters.

ONE DAY CLOSER: I will bet with him—-all will be invited; all will go, and all will go well, until…... and then WAIT until another Date.

WE SHALL MUDDLE THR—ou—gh; WE SHALL MUDDLE THR—ou—-gh.

Sing it again. WE SHALL MUDDLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????

tjmcmahon,

In stating that

[+Rowan] has allowed KJS to get away (at least so far) with the direct slap in the face she gave him by writing her letter to +Bob Duncan, since that letter specifically contradicts +Rowan’s letter to +Howe concerning authority of the “national church.”

I believe that your stated conclusion is inherently and obviously premature, and may in fact prove totally incorrect.

+KJS’ letter to +Duncan clearly contradicts +Rowan’s letter, but it is very recent—sufficiently recent that +Rowan has not had anything like the time to respond to it, if he opts to, that I would expect to take were I in his position. He (+Rowan) has not allowed +KJS to “get away with” anything yet. Only time will tell whether there will be consequences for +KJS from +Rowan. Whether or not we can, or even ought to be, hopeful that there will be is, of course, an entirely different question.

Blessings and regards,
Martial Artist

Pageantmaster,

In reply to your statement that

[a]n American picket fence is an uncomfortable place to sit …

I can reliably assure you that the nationality of the fence has little or no influence on the level of discomfort.

Blessings and regards,
Martial Artist

I always think of picket as being quintessentially American, but I may be wrong.

Is that from personal experience MA?  I am awed by your knowledge of these things.

Pageant/MA—As things heat up, leading this whole conflict to a climax, it’s going to become more and more clear that we are not dealing with an academic controversy over theology or a theoretical dispute in ecclesiology.

It’s a <a >war</a>.

Sitting on concertina wire is even more uncomfortable ...

mousestalker,

You wrote:

If he were consistent about the diocese thingy, then +Gene already would be prepping for tea and crumpets with the Queen,

This would be true, if, and only if, +Cantuar viewed the elevation of the individual in question to the episcopate as regular and also viewed the individual in question as being in communion^† with Canterbury.

Blessings and regards,
Martial Artist
———————-
^†—I would like to find the exact wording but the link to that thread seems to have disappeared below the bottom of the scrolling list of threads, and I am not familiar with how to get to a listing of older threads (assuming that SFIF has an accessible archive).

I agree it is a war.  Is there a climax do you think? - it seems more like death by a thousand cuts.  The prince of this world has been having a field-day with the Church.

Pageantmaster,

I always think of picket as being quintessentially American, but I may be wrong.

You may not necessarily be wrong, and the word “picket” when applied to a fence may very well not be just quintessentially, but exclusively, American, for all I know. But even if it is the latter, it describes an object which is not exclusive to America, and thus not only whose it is. Perhaps I could have been more comprehensive had I stated my assertion as

… can assure you that both the nationality and the name for the fence in the local language and dialect, have little or no influence on the level of discomfort.

Perhaps I am become an example of the sort of creature one becomes when one passes beyond “middle age” and has spent a considerable portion of one’s working life in employments where precision of communication and clarity of thought are stressed. Please forgive me, as I originally had every intention of living much faster, playing much harder, and dying while I was still young and handsome (or at least at an age when what looks I have were not yet overlain with a heavy patina of age).

Blessings and warm regards,
Martial Artist
———————-
—”The common belief that whisky improves with age is true. The older I get, the more I like it.” —[Ronnie Corbett]

An American picket fence is an uncomfortable place to sit I would have thought.

It couldn’t be that uncomfortable or there wouldn’t be so many bishops perched on the fence like a line of purple crows. Rumor has it that the Bishop of Mississippi will have to be surgically removed from the fence if he is ever removed at all.

the snarkmeister

That’s really very funny snarkster - btw what’s with all the aliases or are you going incognito?

Pageantmeister

I think ++Akinola is making a mistake by requiring an invitation for +Minns as a precondition to coming to Lambeth.  It is a quite reasonable position for Lambeth Palace to regard +Minns as irregular and having prematurely been introduced before final disposition of the American problem.  There is certainly ample room for disagreement about that problem, given the wording of the Windsor Reports, the Dar communique, and the ABC’s own comments about the issue.  Further, that would set a seriously chaotic precedent for the future when there are disagreements in the Communion.

“The ABoC’s choice is pretty clear- he can defend the Faith once delivered, or not”. tjm, this has ALWAYS been the case, and the opportunities to defend the Faith have been more than sufficiently numerous for him to have done so- if this is what he really wanted to do. Clearly, it is not. He has waffled and fudged and straddled the fence, because ABC Rowans’ objective is to keep the communion together, and he is trusting in a plan that utilizes several key strategies: 1) Time. He thinks that time is on his side, and that using tactics of delay and obfuscation, he can wear down the resistance of the orthodox, and keep them “in”.  2) Play both ends against the middle. Straddling the fence and generally coddling TEC and its deep pockets while occasionally throwing the orthodox a bone here and there has kept him-in his own mind, anyway-above the fray, looking like an honest broker, as he somehow mananges to “keep both sides at the table, talking to each other”. Meanwhile, a fair number on the orthodox side (CCP) are having none of it and have pushed away from the table for good, while Pharoah Jefferts-Shori sends out her chariot force of threats and lawsuits to keep them from leaving. All the while, His Grace thinks that he resembles a wise old grandfather surrounded by bickering children, when in reality, he resembles Nero fiddling while Rome burns. 3) In spinning this confusing web of false starts, contradictory declarations, and promises of clarification in the nebulous future when supposedly, at some gathering or another, a grand, final consensus will magically be acheived, while cleverly tossing out from time to time a seeming shift in sympathys [some in the orthodox camp actually believe that the ABC is, at heart, really on their side; how pathetic], he honestly thinks that he can “keep the plates spinning” while the two sides wear themselves out battling each other, and eventually, sue for peace. True, a few will. But what His Grace does NOT realize is that this is not a battle of flesh and blood; the lines have been drawn in the heavenlies, and “God will show Himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward Him”, while “the wicked shall [still] do wickedly”. On a personal level, ABC Rowan-unless he changes his course-will find out that his crafy machinations carry no weight with the Almighty, and that his decision not to choose is in fact, a choice in itself-one with eternal consequenses. And meanwhile, the cry of the faithful steadfastly remains: “Be of good courage, and let us behave ourselves valiantly for our people, and for the cities of our God: and let the LORD do that which is good in His sight.” (1 Chron. 19:13)

Pageantmaster: Oh, just havin’ a little fun.

el snarkerino

Pageantmaster,

Just a quick follow up to your question. Here is what the internet translation engine Babel Fish gives in the indicated languages as a translation for the English term “picket fence:”

Pfostenzaun (Deutsch)
piket omheining (Dutch)
barrière de piquet (French)
recinzione del picchetto (Italian)
cerca do piquete (Portuguese)
cerca del piquete (Spanish)
φράκτης στύλων (Greek)
городка пикетчика (Russian)

From those European languages using Roman characters the presence of a word (italicized and bolded in the list, above), which appears clearly to have the same cognate as “picket,” is present in all but one (the exception being German). The Greek and Russian are problematic.

For anyone unfamiliar with Babel Fish and needing a reasonably reliable translation engine, I have found it quite useful over the years, sufficiently so that I would recommend it, so long as the user is familiar with the difficulties associated with attempting to write linguistic translation algorithms (even disregarding the problems of idiomatic usage).

Blessings and regards,
Martial Artist

P.S., being an American I am the least bit puzzled that you should express awe for my knowledge of a wide variety of what often amounts to trivia. But, OTOH, I guess the other choice (in my opinion the more probable one) is shock. After all, Americans are globally famous for parochiality, ignorance and Shock and Awe.

Blessings and regards,
Martial Artist

tjmcmahon, I see what you mean about Dio UP Mich.  The link also shows the enthusiastic promotion of an interfaith conference on the relationship between meditation and the Enneagram, led by a Buddhist teacher.  I guess ol’ Jesus just isn’t good enough anymore for some.

MA: Oh, just havin’ a little fun - actually I was full of awe having thought that you may have tried out different fences but I don’t see you as a fence-sitter.  Your breadth of knowledge and command of the tools of the internet are always impressive.  America like England has its well read and perhaps its not so well read.

I tried putting the word snarkster into babelfish for translation but all I got was snarkster.

all I got was snarkster

La snarkerina seems to have the same problem.

that [Minn’s attendance at Lambeth] would set a seriously chaotic precedent for the future when there are disagreements in the Communion.

At the time of the creation of the AMiA, that may have been a more reasonable argument.  Now I don’t buy it.  First, chaos has already become the order of the day as the ABC has allowed inaction to rule, so I must say that the threat of possible chaos in the future does not seem too much to bear.  Does anyone recall that the panel of reference was “a matter of urgency”?  Future ABCs can rise to the occasion and issue invitations to Lambeth or not as they consider wise in the future, but not if the communion is allowed to fall apart by this ABC.

Minns, I would point out, would not be a bishop, at least of CANA, had the ABC done anything real to create a safe place for the orthodox.  His inaction to date has lead others to take action - something he well knew would take place - and the communion will accept it, or the communion will split between those that do and those that don’t.  For the ABC, to fail to choose is to choose.

I agree that +Minns should be invited.  I do not agree that not inviting him lacks a reasonable basis and/or would justify the largest province staying home (if, say, ABC decided to disinvite everyone but the Windsor bishops, for example).

Now is the time for clarity, but while TEC’s clear departure in spirit and substance from the Communion’s pronouncements is undeniable, the proper way forward that sets the right precedent for the future is not.  Even if Williams ejected TEC flat out, the Communion would not be all put together again.  There is a long road ahead.

The ABC is the symbol of unity and the means of unity (those bishops in Communion with the See of Canterbury are in communion with each other in the Anglican Communion). Therefore, Archbishop William’s primary task is the maintenance of the Communion. I do not think his focus on maintaining unity means he is weak, vacillating or wrong in his attempt to do so. I may disagree with the means, or even want him to personally smite the heathen among us, but that is not his responsibility as the ABC—-maintaining the unity of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is.

An old Baptist pastor once said, ” If you are in the driver’s seat—drive”. For the GS bishops to boycott Lambeth would be to let others drive the AC. Not a wise strategic action. Never abandon the field to a lesser enemy when strong, instead win the battle by pure numbers. Let the liberals come. What are the faithful afraid of. It is the few liberals who should be worried about their behavior in the face of millions of the orthodox of the Communion. Unilateralism in American geo-religious politics is waning. Time may be on their side in the West, but it is decidedly not on the liberals side in the totality of the Anglican Communion. Have Faith!!!!!

Forever Anglican: Rowan Williams has said that Lambeth 08 will not be a legislative session but rather a shoot the bull session (or whatever the Swahili word for “shoot the bull” is). I am quite sure that the GS could show up and change the format to a more useful format. They did this at Dar es Salaam. However, the orthodox can pass all the resolutions till kingdom come, but if the ABC keeps giving the TEC a pass, what does it matter? It simply doesn’t. The ABC basically single handedly killed the DeS communique and now is rendering its death meaningless. There must be consequences of actions (or inactions). The consequence of the dithering and non-withdrawal of invitations is that representatives of over half of the communion doesn’t show up. Consequences are what are sorely missing, thus far.

I believe that your stated conclusion is inherently and obviously premature, and may in fact prove totally incorrect.

  Martial Artist, I thought I was making the point that my stated conclusion might be premature (and therefore was speculating, vs. concluding) when I said: “[+Rowan] has allowed KJS to get away (at least so far) with…” I hope and pray that my speculation (or conclusion) is incorrect.
I admit to being shocked (in a good way) by Archbishop Rowan allowing Bp. Howe to make his email public.  But, in this day and age of “open letters” (clearly designed to send signals to us, since the bishops could send signals to each other via private mail) it would have been a simple enough thing for +Rowan to write a letter also to +Bob Duncan saying, in essence, that +Bob Duncan is the recognized Bishop of the Diocese of Pittsburgh and will be invited to Lambeth, and make that public. 
That would take the ABoC all of half an hour, and, while I admit it to be only my humble opinion, lower considerably the current level of tension among the remaining orthodox in TEC.  I have written him praying that he will recognize those Anglicans outside of TEC as Anglicans in communion with his See, and do so publicly.  I am sure that many others have written him as well along the same lines.  Again, such a statement would go a long way, in my opinion, to relieving tensions.

those bishops in Communion with the See of Canterbury are in communion with each other in the Anglican Communion

  While granted, this was the original idea, in practice it is incorrect, as the majority of TEC bishops are not currently in communion with the bishops of Nigeria, Uganda, Kenya, and (I am reasonably sure) most of the GS.  Hence those bishops do not receive Holy Communion with, or from, the presiding bishop of TEC, or with many other bishops of TEC.  All currently remain in communion with the see of Canterbury.

Pageantmaster,

I was, as I’m sure you must have surmised, also having a little fun—you have probably already noted that my sense of humour frequently expresses itself in verbal jest, often double entendre without the usual sexual connotation thereof.

In reply to your comment that

America like England has its well read and perhaps its not so well read.

I would agree that yours is an accurate assessment. What I find dismaying is the generally downward trend of our educational system and the general upward trend of (allegedly) educated (i.e., university or even graduate school) Americans who seem unable to avoid solecisms and misconstructions, in the latter of which I include using either a non-word or the wrong word in a failed attempt to convey a specific meaning. And, my experience of both the English, the Scots and the Germans, albeit brief, is that they are generally much more cosmopolitan in attitude and demeanor, and seem substantially less dogmatic and rigid in their attitudes.

Perhaps it comes from some combination of cultural and geographic scale coupled with physical proximity to one’s neighbors, particularly on the continent—one can’t as comfortably engage in “bashing” the folks who live next door, since one must deal with them on a fairly frequent basis. England may have experienced less of this because of the presence of the English Channel, but I even noticed it during our travels in the UK in 1999. The people whom I met and spoke with seemed noticeably more hospitable than has been my of my fellow Americans.

Blessings and regards,
Martial Artist

I think I will log off for the more productive pursuit of prayer.  And pray that +Rowan is an instrument of God’s will, and that His will be done.
God bless
TJ

There is only one quote from Akinola, and he speaks of “the first condition” being the invitation of all Nigerian Bishops.  I don’t believe this represents a departure from the Road to Lambeth.

The ABC isn’t going to meet the requirements of the Road to Lambeth.

You will not see the Nigerian,Ugandan, Rwandan and Kenyan Bishops at Lambeth.  Your guess is as good as mine as to how many others stay home.

Until I see it in fact, I believe the GS bishops will show up at Lambeth. It is simply the Anglican Way to Muddle through. I see no evidence to the contrary. This post can say otherwise, but let’s face it we are only a blog, and nothing else to the real participants. God be with Bishop Duncan. But, Reality will begin to dictate that the show must go on.

If not, well—-then, we do have a new show in town. And what that means is anyone’s guess——let’s cross that bridge when it actually gets built.  Until, Forever Anglican is my stand. God be with us all.

Forever Anglican, just take them at their word.  It means a whole lot to them. They are working closely with their US churches and are fully committed to the course of action they have previously announced.

tjmcmahon,

I apologize for missing your parenthetical clause. Nevertheless, I still think the characterization of +Cantuar as having “allowed KJS to get away … with” something is premature. If after 7 to 14 days he does not reply, then it might have some validity. But, absent some very clear response from him to her, however charitably worded, I firmly believe that only time will tell if that is what is happening, i.e., that +Cantuar is allowing her “direct slap in the face” to go unanswered. And that was the principal aim of my comment. I truly think your choice of words was such as to make it sound like a rush to judgment, and it was to that which I was responding. On rereading your post I noticed the parenthetical clause, but after some reflection realized why I had responded so instinctively to the balance of the comment. Of course, I may be wrong to have read it this way, but inasmuch as I, who am fundamentally in agreement with the criticisms of TEC and with the teachings of the church as they have been passed down to us, it is very likely that others not so closely in agreement will read it in the same way. Because of that conclusion, I chose not to retract my comment, as it accurately reflects my reaction to the basic assertion of yours.

Blessings and kind regards,
Martial Artist

Greg,  correct.  I do NOT think that ABC will disinvite those four dioceses to the 2008 Lambeth Conference just because they are leaving TEC.  Will they ever get another invitation to anything Anglican once they are out of TEC—they will not.  They will be on their own just like the Continuing Churches—and they will be better off for it!
That’s what I think from my sideline position as a trained observer.

Where the GS is, is where the Anglican Communion is. My old refrain. The Anglican Communion is a Catholic faith system now based in the Southern Hemisphere,  not in a group of drafty medieval buildings in the South of England. Nor is it any longer dominated by increasingly addled and irrelevant old men hiding in those buildings. Rather, it is where 80% of its adherents are both geographically and in their faith journey. Their leaders have already chosen Christ over Canterbury and the Northern European hegemony over Anglicanism is finished. My hope is that the quintescent politician +++Rowan will do the expedient, which is what politicians always do, and isolate the heretic North American and CoE bishops and their deluded adherants, thus saving a small part of his increasingly marginal role in the Anglican Communion. The comment above that the schism has already happened is right on the mark. The GS has already departed. It’s just hard to see that through KJS’s dust storm. +++Rowan has weeks, not even months, to respond.

MA-
I admit that you are correct, and re-reading my own post after a good night’s sleep, it is more strident than I intended, so I accept your admonition.  I do indeed agree with you that neither I, nor anyone else, should prejudge the plans of the ABoC- since we do not know his heart or his true intentions.  I do find the process, or lack thereof, frustrating. That frustration, more than anything, is what is reflected in my post. 

In calmer moments I recognize, and sometimes post, that +Rowan is indeed a bishop who has taken on the huge responsibility of pastoring 75 million people.  The decisions before him today are immense, and will effect the Church for centuries to come.  We should pray for him and pray with him and take on such of the burden as we can.

I watch as the last Anglo Catholic bishops prepare to leave TEC (or be driven out- under any strict reading of TEC’s current canons, Anglo-Catholicism is non-canonical), and I will follow them and the faith I was born into.  +Rowan is right, the Church is where the bishop is.  But I can only pray that he will realize that not all who claim to be bishops are bishops.  And that he will recognize the true bishops, regardless of TEC’s opinion on the matter.

Lord, we pray that you will grant us strength to do your will in the coming days.

Pax
TJ

TJ,

All I can do is to add my “Amen” to your prayer.

Pax, blessings and kind regards,
Martial Artist