Hat tip: Anglican Beach Party
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A sure sign of a weak Gospel is throwing up signs about wanting to feed the hungry as your main focus. I mean, no one could be against that, right?!! The ultimate fall-back. What these folks don’t see is that a strong Gospel that strengthens families and rekindles a society’s commitment to right living and daily work is the ultimate poverty fighter. Good sexual ethics is the ultimate weapon against STDs. And so forth. It’s the harder route, though. Much easier to throw condoms and canned goods at the problem. |
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I assume that these commandments lead TEC to the obvious conclusion of endorsing the free market tax and regulatory policies in places like Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, and South Korea that were so successful in rapidly pulling these nations out of the pits of post WWII poverty, as well as using DDT to eradicate malaria (the 6th Commandment) as places such as Uganda have done with success. At last, I’ve found common ground with my former church! |
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oscewicee wrote:
Yes, it is for real. I found it here.
I would not be surprised ... only 8 commandments as opposed to 10 ... it’s an easy sell. |
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James…LOL… as a woman I need to tell you that it is a spagetti strap dress not a bra. Of course we can’t see the face to tell the gender. The female clergy is wearing thin strapped sandels. Very chic except with clerics on. Her hair is probably braided with ribbons in a German braid. Pray for me I think I’m turning into Joan Rivers. Maybe Sarah will open a thread for the fashion critics in all of us who would like to critique a few Bishops and their fashion sense…male and female. There is nothing I can say kind about the MDG’s in place of a cross at the Eucharist, I’m afraid. |
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Greg, once again you go over the top!! Woo hoo!! Let’s party down and skewer those reasserters over their desire to eradicate poverty!! Unbelievable. There’s something intrinsically wrong with the MDGs? There’s something intrinsically heretical with supporting them? Or is it just because Our Katharine supports them? RoyIII: “I’d rather see a picture of the priests actually feeding people. What a bunch of poseurs.” |
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PadreWayne, when you say: If they worship before a banner emblazoned with the current phrase of the day, instead of the cross, or the Christus Rex, then yes, they are poseurs and engaging in farce. |
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Anyone else notice, if you follow the link in your comments, your get to a page with photos of the communion food, including some clearly leavened wheat rolls that look like someone ducked into the local Wegmans before service. On the barefoot question, there two strands of possible influence: Roman Catholic monks sometimes went barefoot as a sign of renouncing material possessions (a much more substantive sacrifice when walking is your chief means of transport); and a of course from Eastern traditions (including oddball fusion liturgy, like the Cosmic Mass). The altar boys seems to be looking her direction… perhaps they should have included a footwashing? |
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I Took a little tour of convention highlights on the link that Anglican Beach Party provided. I found the article written about Bishop Gibb’s address especially telling. They just don’t get it… |
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There’s nothing wrong with the MDG’s, PW. But you don’t need the church in order to implement them. Lots of groups do that kind of work while managing to sleep in on Sunday mornings. I have no doubt that those folks feed the hungry. I seriously doubt that the hungry folks they feed hear from these people Who it was who sent them. And if you’re feeding the hungry just so you can congratulate yourself on how much more splendidly wonderful you are than those sex-obsessed fundies over there, then not to put too fine a point on it but you might as well have saved your efforit. |
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Heh heh. Priceless. I mean . . . you can’t make this stuff up. But due to the past 48 hours . . . is there any chance that this actually occurred at a Bahai Faith Center and not an Episcopal church? Perhaps it was put up at the Diocese of Michigan web site as a humorous example of what not to do? Or as a special training tool for liturgists? Or the banner was perhaps photoshopped in by Michael Daley? I hope that this was carefully checked. We don’t want to find out that this was actually done at a Jewish synagogue in Alabama. |
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The Millenium Development Goals + One would be wonderful (with the One being taking the good news to the peoples of the world of God’s provision of redeeming grace through the cross and resurrection of Jesus). Unfortunately, we are dealing with people who are ashamed of the of the Gospel (and I am not talking about PW here) and don’t want to “offend people of other faith traditions.” Thus, they have taken up the MDGs without the gospel message. One other criticism of the MDGs: Dedicating 0.7% of ones assets to eliminating world poverty is pathetic. Big whoop. |
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One other criticism of the MDGs: Dedicating 0.7% of ones assets to eliminating world poverty is pathetic. Big whoop. TEC is probably spending more than that on law suits against its own churches. I would have more respect if the church were asking for sacrificial giving - but isn’t it basically wanting money to lobby Congress? Somebody please correct me if that is wrong. I hope it is. |
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As per the Bishop’s speech— The bishop offered concrete examples of ministry initiatives that can lead to uncommon results. |
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What gives here? Was the golden calf out getting waxed? And, in case anyone’s forgotten, the MDGs are a UN boondoggle. You remember the UN, right? The same bunch that just skimmed something like $20 billion off the top of the Oil-for-Food program? The goals are swell. The problem is the people running the operation behind them. |
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The main reason for poverty is pagan society. If you want to get rid of poverty and not just pour money down corrupt black holes over and over then get the gospel to these cultures and give them freedom. Often it is a cop out to just throw some money at it (especially if there is no sacrifice) and not pay the price to carry the life giving gospel. Was it Peter and John who when asked for money from the crippled man declined but rather gave him what he really needed? But if you are bankrupt spiritually the only thing you have to throw at the problems is some mammon. TEC is a non Prophet organization. IMHO |
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hookemhooker: “All of the stupidities of the last thirty years are illustrated in this graphic statement!” No, they are illustrated in this thread. I thought I could leave this site for a month and perhaps gain some perspective, perhaps be less emotional in responses and commentaries. I thought perhaps I was misjudging people on this blog. And so I returned. Instead, it has become, sadly, not conservative, not orthodox, but toxic. Any semblance of rational, Christian charity and thoughtful expression, has been lost. Good people are maligned (and don’t say nyah nyah they do it over at Jake’s—violence—pistol-packin, guns-for-croziers—is NEVER condoned) with a maliciousness that knows no bounds. Good people are encouraged to keep other good people from Christ’s table. Good people are mislead and lured away from the Holy Gospel of our Lord. Right here. Right here on this blog. Too bad. Perhaps T19 still has some sanity. Farewell again, all. See ya in Paradise—where God has spread a sumptuous feast for all humankind. |
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Aidan,
To which I would humbly respond with a brief question. You are familiar with the standard U.S. military translation of the word assume, are you not? Blessings and regards, |
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Christopher Johnson, You wrote (in part):
Although the first half of your formulation (before the ellipsis I inserted) is perfectly accurate and true, the second half is perfectly incorrect, which is a large part of the problem with TEC, or any other religious group, “signing on” to support them. A short course in the basics appears to be in order for many on either side of the aisle. Goals cannot be implemented! They are objectives to be achieved (or attained, if you prefer). The reason there is nothing wrong with the MDGs is that they are all worthy objectives we should try to attain. The real problem with TEC’s “signing on” to the MDGs is that they are meaningless in terms of what is going to be done. Although goals cannot be implemented, programs can. The real question in all of this is how (<i>i.e., by what <u>specific</u> programs having what <u>specific</u> characteristics and attributes) are the goals to be achieved</i>? Until you tell me the details about the programs that are to be implemented no one can venture so much as a WAG<sup>†</sup> as to whether those programs have any probability whatever of achieving the specified goals. So, in TEC urging us (dioceses, parishes and parishioners) to subscribe to, and pay for, the MDGs, what you have is the exact equivalent of the old con game of selling someone a “pig in a poke.” That is what is wrong with the MDGs, Padre Wayne. It is something between a giant con game and the greatest idea that has ever come down the pike in human history. The only problem is, no one is talking about what the programs are, making it totally impossible to determine whether the whole effort is good, bad or indifferent. Until someone can deliver very specific details of the programs, no one should so much as discuss the MDGs—they are the international charitable equivalent of the vaporware of the software industry, or, perhaps more fittingly, of the abracadabra of the magician and prestidigitator. Blessings and regards, |
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Hi Iceworm, How you wrote that is exactly how wiki worded it. I flipped the wording, so that it would look like a TEC 2nd law of Thermo. As an engineer, it’s impressed me that most folks get the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics messed up. How else could they believe in goo that turns into amino acids, for instance, or a “consensus of experiences” (common to a sub-set of modern folks) that turns into Special Revalation? Meanwhile, a hot cup of coffee will still cool off, if left by itself; and a cold cup of coffee still doesn’t warm up, if left by itself. |
Yeah, yeah. ‘Hello again,’ ‘farewell again.’ This Hegelian exercise on words and ideas effectively renders everything meaningless, after a while.
A feast prepared for the redeemed members of the Covenant Community. Farewell. er, I mean, ‘hello.’ Oh, never mind. |
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Moot writes,
The sun is a wonderful source of massive increases in entropy. Thus, when John and Jane Doe procreate producing Jonny and Janie right here on planet earth, the second law doesn’t mind a bit (to speak anthopomorphically). I would have rephrased your Second Law of Episcopal Thermodynamics: The total entropy of any isolated ecclesiastical system tends to decrease over time, approaching an infinitessimal value. Of course, one cannot have a system of zero entropy, only entropy very small, a collection of frozen bodies with temperature approaching absolute zero. This will be the end result of the chilling lawsuits meant to stamp out any diversity. Those that don’t agree are unwelcomed out the door. The resulting remnant is a cold, dead church. |
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I followed Beach Party’s link to the diocesan organ which contained that photo, and discovered at the top of the page a helpful summary of the diocesan mission priorities:
So, a godless faith produces a Christ-less mission. Good priorities all of them - but how about glorifying God, preaching Christ, exhorting repentance, wrestling in prayer etc? It reminds me of that verse from Acts of the Apostles (I think): Or what that other guy said: “I resolved to know nothing among you except Anglican identity and justice, peace and diversity.” |
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I want to echo John Simmons’ comment. This weekend I was taxi driver so a friend could visit a family he become close. They’re Mennonite and that evening was a annual conference for Christian Aid Ministries (CAM), which is base out of Ohio, but has a huge warehouse and canning operation in Lancaster, PA. That evening we went with the family to see a two hour slide show report of all work that was done. Windows have been fed in Haiti and Moldova, A school in war torn Liberia, Christian brothers and sisters are care for in many nations, there was water project in an Afghan village. Each is in line with the MDG’s. Yet there was a huge difference, the main driving force was Christ and a desire to share His love for His creation (there were many Bible quotes woven throughout the slide show to told their motivations). This photo reminds me of a radio spot each morning “Pass it forward” (after the movie <u>Pay it Forward</u>) which highlights nice things done to say thanks and encourage folks to continue this behavior. Actually all good things, I laud the secular radio station for doing this and as a Christian, I don’t think I have a lock on niceness. However it’s only Christ’s commands that command be to be nice when people are difficult. When someone calls names and says how I’m toxic, the secular radio nice program does not have the same momentum as remembering the abuse I caused Jesus & what Christ did for me in return. I think the MDG are very noble and laudable. However there are certainly finite and supposed to be met in eight years, so not so wise for any centuries old institution to make their central mission. Also I’m not sure pragmatism will not take over, I read on the World Bank site where DR Congo is in danger of not meeting the MDG, and the way many Least Developed Countries fact sheet were written, it seem the World Bank was focusing on nations were a return on investment was more measurable. What I say in the slide show were not popular foreign aid nations, so what is driving these people to disparate poverty or war torn nations? Why would they sow in areas that the human eye can see the field so easily torn up, in some cases literally was shown, but they went back and redid the work. I think it is wrong to forget either the vertical and horizontal. The vertical dimension of the Church is the one through which people |
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I hope this isnt too far afield, just wanted to show you what is happening in Columbus Episcopal church’s… |
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I have some barometers that indicate how well we are doing. One of them is when Tom, The Seer Of Santa Fe, Clown Minister To The Stars, launches one of his confused “the buildings are for us” tirades. Another is the sudden apperance of Wayne, Padre To The Left, in any thread. They don’t show up unless we are scoring points. Nice to see ya Wayne. What’s got yer cassock in a ball this time? |
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Looking for Leaders ... here is your timeline on elimination of poverty. |
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PadreWaye
That’s a joke. I stopped posting at Jakes site maybe 15 months ago - precisely because he turned it into a free-fire zone. His allies can say pretty much anything they want with impunity - my personal favorite being the time I was called a fascist for mentioning I was in the military. Not one person on that blog - least of all Jake - raised an objection. And do I not currently have credibility in your eyes to make this statement? carl |
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Steven in Falls Church ... the possibilities are endless. I can easily see the MDG foamboard posters being placed in a church, 4 to a side, and used as a devotional exercise in place of the Stations of the Cross. A brief meditation could be read (or a short liturgical dance number could be performed) at each station. Stations of the United Nations?? |
As someone who left a church because they once passed out the “Communion” elements (actually matzos & grape juice) as a after service snack, I actually squirmed in discomfort when I read the above. Why? Because I know that it is way too likely a possibility. *shudder* Its just dinner or a snack to some people no matter how or when it is served. As for anyone picking or mocking the MDG’s, Padre Wayne, its not the idea of feeding people that we mock. Its the new world UN order behind them. Its their elevation into a new Gospel that is a problem. It is the idolatry on display in the picture that needs to be called out for the lunacy that it is. As someone else has pointed out, where is the Cross? Either the MDG’s have taken its place in the minds of these folks or else they were just too lazy and sloppy to properly set up the altar. Either way, I see a big problem. |
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Beach Party Bingo, don’t tell the TEC leaders (surely they would never pick up the Bible and actually read that verse) about this. On second thought, they would never admit that was in the Bible anyway, and if they did, they would spin it off (think “reason”, and throw in some good works stuff too). But, at least they think they have it figured out. Boy, if only they had come along earlier, we wouldn’t have all these problems!!! |
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As someone who left a church because they once passed out the “Communion” elements (actually matzos & grape juice) as a after service snack, TEC has really deconstructed the eucharist, hasn’t it? Or was this some other church? I thank God that I haven’t been exposed to this sort of thing. The eucharist - it’s just a meal. We love to use symbols, metaphorical images, but sometimes our symbols speak a message we don’t intend. The folks burning flags in protest to the current government may intend their message to be “I hate Bush” but their symbolism says, “I hate America” - and that’s all of us. (I’m as suspicious of flag-waving patriots as any child of the 1960s, but burning the flag is burning the symbol of the nation, not the symbol of its government. If that’s how you feel, have at it, but know what you’re saying.) In this picture, they have visually enshrined the MDG. The message may be that this is what we are focused on, but placing that list as they have, the visual message is: “Jesus? He’s not here.” |
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Fr. George was my parent’s rector when they both died in the late 80’s. When I returned to my home parish in Chattanooga in 1998, he was still there and about to leave for Columbus. Kyrie eleison. |
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Hosea6:6, Despite what you wrote,
which is pretty much true of any spellcheck software, I firmly believe that
[footnote added] Blessings and regards, |
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Off topic, but relevant: Both lectionaries have a “stand firm” verse in 2 Thess. 2:15: “Stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught.” Looks like a possible sermon text to me. |
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The United Nations Overlords have already taken over my former parish. Check out its announcement this past summer for its kids’ Vacation “Bible” School:
Never too early to start brainwashing the younger generation to replace the Cross with the Millenium Development Goals. As your photo so aptly demonstrates. |
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Ahhhh yes - apparently inept then. *grin* As someone who comes to my Anglican role later than most here (albeit with a strong upbringing in the Minnesota Lutheran (ALC) tradition, and nuturing in baptist, evanglical and messianic jewish heresies), the article prompted me to revisit commentary offered by the often controversial Gary North who wrote the tome entitled, “Crossed Fingers: How the Liberals Captured the Presbyterian Church” - a 1000-page work that he wrote over the span of 3 years. Which while of course having a focus on the Presbyterian Church contains much that enlightens about our own current state in the Episcopal/Anglican crisis. Let me offer a pithy excert form Chapter 13, which reflects the developments behind the content of the article: Sounds very familiar somehow…. |
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Speaking of a New Gospel This little goody needs it own thread |
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masternav Thanks for the Gary North quote. You might be interested to know that I worked for Gary one year (that is, for ICE), back when he was in Tyler, Texas. I was just a lowly book-shipping clerk. But, I was also in a Christian Recon band, the School of the Prophets ... those were heady days ... we were poised to take over the world. LOL. |
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Ed the Roman wrote:
No, we weren’t as overt as that. We pretty much looked like a bunch of hippies from Austin. But with decidedly more aggressive “auras” ... Here is the painting I did, which was going to be our album cover, only we never got a record contract. Kemper Crabb was working on that for us, but our deal never was solidified. The Rickenbacker 12-string (in the painting) is what I played in the band. Wish I still had it. |
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They probably processed in with the cross and that was the biggest one that the crucifer could carry. ; > ) Looking at other photos, it appears that the poster was up during the convention and that the Eucharist was done on the same stage rather than in a church off site of the convention. It seems that unless they were going to move to a church for the service, it was probably reasonable to perform the service where they did. I see some pectoral crosses in the photo as well. As an aside, there is good news on just one of the MDG’s that we can all give thanks for this week. Praise God from whom all blessings flow! |
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It looks as if The Millennium Development Goals have replaced the Decalogue. Will they be included in the new liturgies in the new prayer book?—“Lord have mercy and incline our hearts to do thy will.”?