Telegraph: Anglican leader (++Venables) offers haven to US conservatives (Pittsburgh)

I’ll be glad to see the official statement from the Province of the Southern Cone. Some members of the parish which approved me for ordination 41 years ago, St. John’s, Western Run Parish, Glyndon, Maryland, have formed the Church of the Resurrection in Baltimore which is a parish of the Southern Cone diocese of Chile, and a number of midwestern churches are part of the Diocese of Bolivia.

    There are three Anglican parishes named for the Resurrection in the Baltimore area. Two are in the Diocese of Maryland: Resurrection in East Baltimore and Resurrection in Joppa, Harford County where I served 1968-74. Resurrection in the Diocese of Chile is the third.

The realignment may have taken a very big step forward. I hesitated when I saw Telegraph/Petre, but the article has a fairly clear quote and reference to a provincial convention action in Chile. We’ll see what the light of day brings with text from Southern Cone. It may just be that the convention said, “We’ll leave the light on.”

I thought ++Venables would take on breakaway dioceses.  In fact (if I may be allowed to brag.), I predicted he would take on Ft. Worth months ago.

God bless the man.  He’s a hero in my book.

It is difficult to overestimate the importance of this report. I am especially taken with the concluding paragraph:

“In a letter sent last night, 46 conservative members of the Church of England’s General Synod pledged their support. A number of traditionalist parishes in Canada are also likely to affiliate with the Southern Cone province in protest at plans by liberal dioceses to introduce same-sex blessings.”

+++Rowan now has on hand the sure evidence of the impending fragmentation of the Church of England as well as the Anglican Communion. Harken back to Sir Winston : ” I did not become Prme Minister to preside over the dissolution of the British Empire.” Which was in fact exactly what happened. What he did do was to see that a new thing, a more active, beneficial, reasonably based thing replaced it. The British Commenwealth of Nations.

+++Canterbury has the same opportunity now. The old Anglican Communion is dissapearing as did the Empire. He cannot stop it. The heretical, sexually obsessed carcinoma that it has become is dying, and and with increasing speed, as the days pass. He now, very soon, must cast his lot. I hold to my belief he will do what Winston did. Say good bye to the provinces that have neither the inclination or committment to the genuine Anglican way, and cleave to and support those with whom he can make common cause. In any event, like Winston, he no longer controls events, and can only react. He has not an atom of authority over any of the GS primates, while they, on the other hand,  hold the numerical and spiritual high ground. They have made it clear this day that he is welcome to come along, but must leave his disreputable North American buddies behind. Pray that he walks with us.

I await breathlessly for the first reappraiser (either here or on T19) to complain loudly that this (a) violates the “Windsor process”; (b) violates the ancient cannon against border crossing; (c) violates the sacred polity of TEC.

Whoops.  That should be “canon.”  The only cannons so far have been symbolic, although this is clearly a shot cross the bow.

This, of course, also leads to the question of whether those whom 815 will certainly depose in the upcoming months should be considered canon fodder.

You are on a roll W.W. Are your canons limbered and ready to move or unlimbered and ready to fire?

It will also dismay the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, who is struggling to avert a formal schism.

If what +Cantuar is doing is struggling, then when I’m snoozing in my recliner I’m working really hard…  Actually, the subordinate clause in the above sentence ought to read who is slouching toward Gomorrah (apologies to Robert Bork for using his phrase) to avert a formal schism.

Because of your perspicuity and deft (or should that be daft) sense of humor, William, I always read all of your comments.  I guess that I am not to be considered a half-Witt.  I also read with great interest Tom Rightmeyer’s postings.  I think of him as the Lord described Nathaniel.

“...whether those whom 815 will certainly depose in the upcoming months should be considered canon fodder.”

Well, some of them (at least the male clergy from New York) are certainly canon ‘fodders+

May God bless ++Venables and the good clergy and people of the Southern Cone! Should this report be officially verified and my diocese vote as I believe it will at our next two conventions, I would be honored to serve under the good archbishop’s primacy. May God give the leaders and people of the diocese of Fort Worth wisdom next week and in the months to come.

Newbie,

We both predicted it at the same time, I think.  In fact, I learned that the first reading and passage of the San Joaquin “secession ordinance” in October of last year followed on directly from +Venables’ private encouragement, and commitment to do what he has now publicly undertaken to do.

DR WILLIAMS APPEARS TO WANT TO KEEP THE COMMUNION TOGETHER AT ALL COSTS, BUT GOSPEL TRUTH SHOULD NEVER BE SACRIFICED FOR STRUCTURAL UNITY.

“CONSERVATIVES IN AMERICA AND ELSEWHERE CANNOT WAIT IN LIMBO ANY LONGER. THEY NEED A SAFE HAVEN NOW.”

Apologies for my shouting from the mountain top, but truth like this needs to repeated loud and clear. Thank you, ABp Venables.

Just noted that some of what appear to be Venables speaking in this article, including the first para you quote Dr Dr Rob Roy, are not in quotes.  This is Petre remember.

Just saying.

Note, ++Venables (technically he’s not an “arch” bishop, but presiding or something) is ALREADY the “Patron” of FACA (the REC and APA), and has been for quite some time.

He is a wonderful man, and I have been moved by his sermons and prayers (available at Anglican TV). 

Personally, I’ve been praying that it would be God’s will for him (Venables) to by Patron of the Americas, hopefully this will come to pass. 

Blessings,
Grannie gloria

“read who is slouching toward Gomorrah (apologies to Robert Bork for using his phrase) to avert a formal schism”

I think that was William Butler Yeats’ phrase.  The Second Coming.  “The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.”  Sound familiar?  “Things fall apart, the center can not hold?”  Anybody we know?

William Tighe said:

We both predicted it at the same time, I think.

Brilliant minds think alike.

Wow.

Wow.

I’ll be happy to get some confirmation of this, but

wow.

My parish is already under +Venables and it is a joy beyond measure.  Praise God for this courageous, Godly man who is willing to break down harmful structures and rebuild the Household of God.

Did I mention… wow.

Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori, the liberal leader of the American Episcopal Church, warned Bishop Duncan last week that he will face costly legal battles if he defects, but he replied: “Here I stand. I can do no other.”

Wow.

Yes, this is big news, and it should only get bigger in the coming months. If you thought the libs hated Akinola, just wait. The scorn they’ll be heaping on Venables over the next year or so will rival and perhaps exceed that they’ve heaped on Akinola.

Is Venables a member of any body from which ACI can publicly resign?

Among the “Windsor” bishops there are so many “canon” quoters, so few cannon balls. But maybe just enough.

You are so right, Greg.  Suddenly Venables will become The Very Most Worstest Primates Of All The Universe, rather than Akinola.

Hey Going Home . . . I think it was just Ephraim Radner who resigned from the Network, not the ACI, which was not a member [though I could be mistaken], because Radner’s values do not match those of Bishop Duncan’s.  I thought it was an honorable choice of integrity, though some folks would have preferred that it be more undercover and hush-hush, since they prefer that disagreements not be known.  But the two men really do not share the same values on some very crucial matters, and it would be hypocritical for Radner to pretend as if they do.

I expect that there will be many more such public expressions of disagreement on all sides—allies cannot always agree on matters of strategy and tactics.

Heh.  I just realized something.

With Venables going in this direction, Akinola will suddenly be repositioned as a “moderate”.    ; > )

I mean . . . he may have begun CANA, but he would “nevah, nevah, nevah, nevah!” take whole dioceses under his wing.  I mean . . . he draws the line there!!!!  ; > )

Two each will do. 

Bill Witt, no need to keep waiting.  Fr. Jake was already at it on (a) and (b) before this news broke: Nigeria Rejects the Windsor Report and the Council of Nicea.

No news on when ECUSA plans to start shutting itself down so as not to overlap Roman Catholic boundaries.

This should really frost ++Katharine’s cojones. Oh wait, ++Katharine has no cojones. Oh well, maybe Beers will loan her his.

the snarkster

Yes, this is big news, and it should only get bigger in the coming months.

I concur. I think none of this will happen fast enough for us, but ++Venables and others will be deliberate and ensure a solid foundation. Possibly taking more time than we’d want but doing quality work.

The SOUTH shall rise again.

The words in the Petre article are my words and the article says it like it is.  Thank you for your prayers.

A prayer has been posted at Lent & Beyond.

Hope—W. B. Yeats’ line was “slouching toward Bethlehem”—I’m pretty sure credit for “Slouching toward Gomorrah” goes to Bork.

In other news, Archbishop Venables is my new hero….

So, what’s Venables position on The Innovation That Shall Not Be Mentioned.  I haven’t followed him closely enough to know.

Wikipedia is my friend - Southern Cone only ordains women to the diaconate.

Wrong Snarkster.  KJS has many, many of those items in her bishops lock box…  Did you forget?
Grannie Gloria

With Venables going in this direction, Akinola will suddenly be repositioned as a “moderate”.  ; > )

Sarah,
I had a very hard time explaining to my “rescuers” why I just fell off my chair.  They were quite relieved to see that it was laughter and not a heart attack. 
God bless “Bishop Greg” and all in his care.  I speak from personal experience that he is a bishop willing to reach out to all of us- no matter how distant- to provide pastoral guidance and support.
TJ

Witt,
One has to remember that, even though they may have been referred to as such, some of the “Windsor Bishops” were never Windsor compliant and never intended to be Windsor compliant.  They only were compliant except when it got in the way of their goal of realignment.  Bishops Duncan, Iker, Schofield, and Ackerman were never Windsor compliant.  I suspect that they never intended to comply fully with the all the requirements that the other “Windsor Compliant” bishops agreed to hold themselves.
I just hope and pray that traditionalists heart will be warmed and realize that God is calling us to welcome all people, without regard to sexual orientation, into full inclusion into the life of His church.  There is always hope.
Yours in Christ,
Nick from W. Texas

Archbishop Venables humbly stands upon the Mountain at the feet of Aslan, his Standard planted on behalf of the Ancient Faith. 

Sir, may the good Lord keep you in the Loving Palm of His Hand.

- a Mere Christian

Sorry +Rowan.  Like I told my own former TEC bishop: “In-Action is action”.  The ship has left dock…

Newbie Anglican:  Resounding ditto.  I’d have ++Venables as my Archbishop any day.

Sarah Hey:  Extra-supreme-super-fine one:  “The Very Most Worstest Primate of All the Universe”

Snarkster:  Also a top-shelf one, although I won’t touch it.

Well—There is Nick the you-know-what, trying to get this off-track again. What name did you have in your previous blogcarnation?

Hey Snarkster—I heard Elizabeth Kaeton at GC correct the cojones metaphor. Try to get it straight: Cojones are not “all that”; KJS has some ovaries.

Thank you “gregory” for your clarification.

God Bless

Violent Papist—surely Venables ordains men to the diaconate as well?;->

This open news just made my day! I have been waiting for this news to come about for the better of a year! Thank God Bishop Venables has spoken up outwardly and openly and made his position publically known. I pray our diocese is fortunate enough after Dec 7th to be under his cover.

Thank you Lord Jesus for servants like +Akinola, +Orombi, +Venables and many others…..

So, does anyone think that this will entice the Diocese of Dallas to leave?  Or other whole dioceses?

Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori, the liberal leader of the American Episcopal Church…

This is an example of the proverbial British understatement, like saying Bill Clinton has an eye for the ladies.

For those not following T19, Bp. Venables stated that he has been re-elected unanimously as primate of the Southern Cone.  There had been reports earlier, perhaps erroneous, that he was term limited.

http://www.kendallharmon.net/t19/index.php/t19/article/7447/#141517

Venables just confirmed the statement above in a separate blog!

++Venables seems like the very obvious choice to me with this news. Think about it; he is the one who has come to speak at the REC/APA gatherings recently who are members of the Common Cause. I do not find this a surprise at all actually. I imagine there is more coming together than many actually really know!

<ahref=http://www.frjeffreysteel.blogspot.com>de cura animarum</a>

de cura animarum

he just confirmed it here on this blog

This is great. I especially like the apparent coordination of the responses of Archbishop Gomez, the GS Comminuique, Archbishop Akinola, the Church Society and FiF in the UK, and now Archbishop Venables.

As I said on the thread about Archbishop Akinola’s open letter, this is Rowan Williams’  very last chance to save the office of ABC as the focus of Anglican unity worldwide. That chance is ending before our eyes. What a pity that Rowan seems unable to rouse himself from his post modern intellectual paralysis, even to save a once great institution.

episcoanglican,
Good grammatical catch!  I assume they must ordain at least some men.

William Witt, the world cries out for another episode of Anglican Report from you teamed with Kevin Kallsen.

...on leave from the Briar Patch,

Father Jake just posted this venom:

PB Venables not only seems to ignore the recommendations regarding border crossings in that document, but seems to sanction such raids, and even encourages them.

Father Jake sounds like Saddam Hussein’s press secretary at the time Baghdad fell.  All is well and we are winning.

Re: Southern Cone only allowing women to the diaconate. What does this mean for Pittsburgh, which does ordain women to the priesthood? Is there going to be a problem with that, or does the fact that Common Cause has already—at least for the time being—agreed to disagree on this mean it might be a “local option” thing?

I could care less what the likes of Jake, Russell, Kaeton, etc…say! They can’t stand it when the Godly men stand up and do the real work of God because it is not politically correct or socially correct. Jesus wasn’t interested in making all sinners feel comfy in their sin…He was interested in releasing them from it and transforming them into what He has in mind for them in His image. The prince of lies and darkenss is one who loves to keep people in their sinfulness. Let the wanna-be’s rant…the Lord has already won the war we just need to stay strong and faithful to get through the battles and not waiver but Stand Firm.

When morning gilds the skies my heart awaking cries:
May Jesus Christ be praised!
Alike at work and prayer, to Jesus I repair:
May Jesus Christ be praised!

Be this, while life is mine, my canticle divine:
May Jesus Christ be praised!
Sing this eternal song through all the ages long:
May Jesus Christ be praised!

” Conservatives in America and elsewhere cannot wait in limbo any longer. They need a safe haven NOW.”

How true Archbishop Venables! And May God richly bless you and the other Global South primates for providing that safe haven. Rowan Williams: WHEN will you awaken to the new reality that is forming before our very eyes? I hope and pray that it is sooner….......rather than (too) later.

Newbie & William,

While I can’t refer you to any evidence in print or blog, I have also long had the feeling that Venables would simply be the natural choice for the Americas.

I can attest as someone under his protection who has met him personally, that he is an excellent Archbishop (that’s what we call him and he doesnt object) and just all around good man. Its hard to feel hopeless in his vicinity

And so it begins…. and who would have thunk it years ago… a Diocese spanning the Americas…. many nations, one Lord

What makes me even more proud of Bishop Duncan and the delegates of the Pittsburgh convention is that we overwhelmingly voted to leave the national church without having a “safe haven” in place beforehand.  Bishop Duncan truly stands where he stands without a safety net, so to speak, save that of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for whom this battle rages on.  God Bless Bishop Duncan and Archbishop Venables!

My prayers have been answered. God bless you Bishop Venables++.
I had forgotten for a bit that all is in God’s hands and if we but consecrate on the saving of souls all will be well.
Thank you, Jesus.
The Anglican Powderkeg+

Oh, yeah, I wanted to reply to SavidSh also:

Re: Southern Cone only allowing women to the diaconate. What does this mean for Pittsburgh, which does ordain women to the priesthood? Is there going to be a problem with that, or does the fact that Common Cause has already—at least for the time being—agreed to disagree on this mean it might be a “local option” thing?

I suppose this would be part of a discussion of oversight.  There is nothing in place saying a diocese must have oversight from any particular archbishop.  If the issue of female ordination could not be resolved, then I suppose other oversight would be sought.
All this is putting the cart before the horse, I suppose, but then again, that’s why forums such as this one exist, eh?

DavidSh, not SavidSh…my bad.

Psalm 118:24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

Y’know, 815 (and all its integral parts) only has itself to blame.  If they’d gone with the Primate’s scheme for oversight from Dar, they’d have a whole lot more control over how this plays out.  As it stands, they lose all their marbles.  (Go ahead and say it…   Oh well, they had their chance.

The man only needs a red cape and a mask to be the complete superhero.  God bless him.  His care for “the departed” (ie from TE"c”) here in San Diego has been a rare and powerful inspiration to the captains and foot soldiers.

Cindy T. wrote:

Y’know, 815 (and all its integral parts) only has itself to blame.  If they’d gone with the Primate’s scheme for oversight from Dar, they’d have a whole lot more control over how this plays out.  As it stands, they lose all their marbles.  (Go ahead and say it…  Oh well, they had their chance.

Hmmm….I seem to remember something in the Bible about Pharaoh not letting God’s people go when he had the chance.  Ends up, Pharaoh lost a lot, too….

I for one find this very troubling.  Yeah, yeah, boundaries and stuff, whatever.  What really bothers me is that every time I think I’ve found a helpful lifeboat for my congregation, along comes another equally attractive lifeboat!  I wish the Common Cause folks would slow down for a minute and let me hop on board!    In all seriousness (as is due this tectonic action), I know that God is shaking his church, and I can live with the ambiguity for a time while things coalesce.  Blessings to +Gregory, and his partners in mission.

It’s looking like we now have a “there” there. I’m expecting to have my pension fund canceled any day now for reading this blog.

There, there, Jerry. All will be well™.

...on leave from the Briar Patch,

Always loved “When Morning Gilds the Skies.”

teddy mak said:

The heretical, sexually obsessed carcinoma that it has become is dying, and and with increasing speed, as the days pass.

The problem for Rowan Williams is that the CoE is part of the tumor.  Although it may be politic to ignore this fact for the moment, it is still true that the CoE is just as complicit as TEC.  How many open homosexuals serve as priests in the CoE?  How many British bishops stand with TEC in its innovations?  This does present a dilemma for RW.  How does he go where his own church will not follow?
carl

The problem for Rowan Williams is that the CoE is part of the tumor. Although it may be politic to ignore this fact for the moment, it is still true that the CoE is just as complicit as TEC. How many open homosexuals serve as priests in the CoE? How many British bishops stand with TEC in its innovations? This does present a dilemma for RW. How does he go where his own church will not follow?

Carl,
You have nailed it and I have said ths before. +Rowan does seem to have a huge problem now doesn’t he. The See is infected with the same disease as TEC.

This raises so many questions in my mind.

Is it possible that ++Venables would act thus without informing the ABC beforehand? I would find it very hard to believe that the Primates are simply bypassing him as irrelevant.

re: what carl and ODC said just above, I too have heard that the C of E is divided and includes a large reappraising element, although perhaps not in near-total control as they are stateside. If silence gives consent, could it be that the ABC, by his silence, “consents without consenting” to avoid a blowup in the C of E?

Some time ago (during GC 2006 IIRC) there was a good deal of talk about TEC’s presence in 16 countries. Are we seeing the beginning of The Anglican Church of All The Americas as a contrast to the 16 flags of TEC[ommunion]? Does TEC outside of the US overlap the Southern Cone anywhere, or West Indies?

kyounge1956
Of course we talked!

Bishop Gregory,

If you receive this, could you tell me the current “state of play” in the Southern Cone Province about women’s ordination?  I understand that women are ordained to “the diaconate” but not to the presbyterate or episcopate.  Is this likely to change in the future, or to become a matter for “diocesan option” (e.g., Pittsburgh—or for that matter Recife/Cavalcanti)?

Thank you for your bold and charitable stand, and that of your province.

William Tighe
In the S Cone women are ordained to the diaconate but not as priests or bishops.
We passed a resolution on Tuesday keeping the subject on the agenda for ongoing study and dialogue.
It won’t be a problem regarding dioceses leaving TEC.

Well done Archbishop Venables.

I’ve always enjoyed Valparaiso

Thank you for your prayers.

Bishop Venables,

Allow this non-Anglican to add his prayers as well. Thank you for your leadership in what I believe is a far larger struggle than “merely” TEC.

God Bless You, Gregory!

Of course we talked!

Thank you Bishop Gregory, those are perhaps the most encouraging words we have heard in a long time.  Our prayers are with you and all under your care.
TJ

It won’t be a problem

We here in blogland have been overly stressing ourselves over this “problem.”

...on leave from the Briar Patch,

“We here in blogland have been overly stressing ourselves over this ‘problem’.”

Ain’t a problem for me, as a “papist” for whom WO has been ruled out as impossible and invalid by the Magisterium of the Church—but as sure as tarnation ought to be a problem for “Catholic Anglicans” who have struggled against WO for lo these many decades, and will now find themselves going back only to, say, 2002, rather than 1972 (or 1929).

It is useful, however, to have a straightforward answer, and I am happy for it.  I have just sent the answer, together with my commentary (which I will give below), to my friends among the Continuing Anglicans, FIF/UK, FIF/USA (including some bishops, “flying” and otherwise), the Nordic Catholic Church, the Swedish Mission Province, und so weiter, to alert them to this.  My commentary accompanying my e-mail follows:

*******************

“This is a response from Archbishop Venables to a question that I posed on this comment thread re: WO.  I think Cavalcanti of Recife does ‘ordain’ women.  I should be dismayed (but, of course, who am I to opine on this matter?) if Fort Worth, San Joaquin (? and Quincy) should, post varios casus et tot discrimina rerum, and after so many decades of witnessing to the historic position as regards Catholic Orders, end up as part of a ‘structure’ that leaves it to the
individual bishop or diocese whether to practice WO or not.  It would be, in such a case, ‘a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing’—or at least nothing Catholic.

In an earlier comment on the same thread, Venables replied that ‘of course’ he discussed his and his province’s action with Rowan Williams.  (You know, if RW were [to invoke Reformation-era stereotypes] a ‘Jesuit mole’ sent into Anglicanism under ‘deep cover’ at an early age to ‘rise in the ranks’ to a position in which he could wreak the most devastation in it on behalf of ‘the Scarlet Woman,’ he couldn’t be doing a better job by his inaction to break up
the Anglican Communion and sow discord within the Church of England, than in fact is the case.  If he persists in his seeming refusal to call an emergency Primates’ Meeting, and then goes ahead and holds a faineant Lambeth Conference in 2008, it is hard to say whether the results will resemble more a tragedy or a farce.)

To your tents, O Israel”

I rest my case.

...on leave from the Briar Patch,

Oh Professor Tighe!  Really!

end up as part of a ‘structure’ that leaves it to the
individual bishop or diocese whether to practice WO or not.

in other words, where they are now, if not better…

I hope I am not the only Bubba on this blog. Assuming I am not, I will save the rest some time with their dictionary:

fai·ne·ant—-idle; indolent.

faineant = do-nothing

Thank you, fellow Bubba!
AP+

Every organization’s behavior is usually best explained by its being controlled by a cabal of its enemies.

While we are at it, I wish folks would translate all that pointed-headed intellectual Latin that often gets posted here.  As my grandmother used to say, you need to put the hay down where the cows can eat it.

Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.

Many thanks to Bishop Venables. He has made a very eloquent case for allowing liberal Anglicans in England to expect alternative episcopal oversight, given that not one of our lily-livered diocesan bishops currently dares stand up for full inclusion of gays at every level in our church.

re:

<blockquote> Of course we talked!

Thank you Bishop Gregory, those are perhaps the most encouraging words we have heard in a long time. </blockquote>I’m encouraged too. It is good to know we’re not forgotten.

Going Home, perhaps an appropriate phrase that could be used by the good bishops Iker and Duncan:

Re vera, cara mea, mea nil refert. (Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn.)