‘She Speaks from a Very Deep Place’

Perhaps, Jefferts Schori said, if all sides in the current debate over sexuality and Scripture could “hold their truths more lightly,” they might yet find a way forward—together.

Hence the problem. Let’s see what happens if we asked her to hold her truths (LGBT and litigation) more lightly so that we could find a way forward.

The end result would be a crushing thud on our heads.

The money quote for me is “Jefferts Schori said, if all sides in the current debate over sexuality and Scripture could ‘hold their truths more lightly’”.

I’m afraid I can never compromise over what is true. Never. I can ‘agree to disagree’. I am willing to listen, to be shown that I am in error. If the truth that I know is not one of core belief, I can go along for a while with someone who is inerror about it. But I can never ‘hold a truith lightly’.

I’m afraid I’m an absolutist and not a relativist. I can not compromise the truth. I can not deny the Truth.

I have a blog thingy

So what your PB is calling for is mutual agreement that sodomy may be right or it may be wrong, but that the question is not important.

“She speaks from a very deep place,” said Valerie Valle, a priest from Arroyo Grande near San Luis Obispo.

Well, obviously it ain’t from “deep in the heart of Texas.” Heh.

Question: How do you hold the truth “lightly”? There is no such thing as Truth Lite. Something is either true or it isn’t.

snarkimus maximus

Two thoughts:

1) My brother worked for one of the Big Three automakers for a time.  He said that many meetings consisted of leaders telling each other, “Be reasonable—do it MY way…”

2) I just keep coming back to Gen. 3:1—“Did God really say…?”

Hmmmmm…..
Reconciliation?

OK, KJS-
1) Immediately drop the lawsuits
2) Adhere to Lambeth 1.10 as the standard of teaching withing the Communion
3) Refuse to consent to the election of non-celibate gay bishops
4) Refuse to allow same sex marriages or blessings of other same sex unions, civil or otherwise.
5) Nominate your 2 members to the Pastoral Council

IF these things are not done, it is clear to the world that you are not interested in reconciliation.  The path is before you.  Take it or walk your own.

Even if there were such a thing as Truth Lite, I ain’t buying.

Is it possible that when Jesus said “Feed the hungry,” that He did not mean give them food?

If the Bible says, “Feed the hungry,” why is it that it is not a book on how to prepare and transport food?

If Jesus wanted his disciples to “Feed the hungry,” why did he not send them out with wheel barrows full of food, but instead sent them out empty handed?

What is it that the people are hungry for?  Is it water from a well, or living water that the world needs that will quench its hunger and thirst forever?

Neither Jesus nor His disciples cured all the lepers, the blind, the lame, the poor, nor the hungry.  He did not cure self indulgence, nor promote homosexuality as a way to cope with self indulgence.

Jesus did provide the bread of life or the “Good News,” that since one Man has obeyed the Word, and has now been resurrected, that we all have the opportunity for peace of mind in whatever condition we are in, because fairness and justice will also be our reward in an eternal afterlife in heaven.

That is what MDG should be about, not food.

The most surprising revelation to me was this:

“wearing the sunrise-hued vestments of her own investiture”

I had always assumed, from the photos of the vestments in question, that it was a Lake of Fire motif ...

she offered her own, more nuanced view to the priests and lay leaders before her

Feh, nuance schmuance. Sophistry by any other name is sophistry still.

I believe that one must put on one’s hip boots to go to the deep place.

Send disciples, not food!

And dig the headline

Episcopal leader seeks to mend church rift

Oh, THAT’S what she’s trying to do - I sure was confused with all the lawsuits and threats and stuff.  I’m glad we got that straightened out…

William, I heard that the rubber apron needed to extend as far up as the lower lip.

...on leave from the Briar Patch,

There it is again, the TEC “faithful” are repeating the buzzwords back at the leaders:  “deep place” = “deep understanding”.  Yep…as deep as the Mariana Trench.  Dark, cold and nearly lifeless.

Gillian, wouldn’t it be nice if someone in the media noticed that she hasn’t done one single thing to try to “heal the rift” or “reconcile” the church??? That instead her notion of reconciliation is to take everyone to court and her concept of the broadness of TEC is that everyone can believe what they want, as long as they believe what she believes.

Every time this woman speaks she reveals even more her shallowness of thought to the world.  Her’s is the liberal line of politics, of religion, and of social consciousness that this country is wallowing in these days.  Agree with me, compromise your beliefs, stand against the truth as you now know it.  Only then, she and her ilk believes, will everyone be able to get along.  I’m thankful for forums like this where her unGodly words come to the fore.  Because her lies are surely not being refuted where they should matter most; from the pulpit to the people in the pews.

Is the humor column going to be a regular feature of Standfirm ? I know I have asked this before, but I really would like some clarification.  I lost almost a whole cup of tea.  Advanced warning would be much appreciated.

It is not that I hold my beliefs about sexuality so tightly. It is just that I hold my beliefs about God so tightly.  If I loosen the one the other falls kerplop as well.  Can’t have that, can we.

Dante shared some of those “very deep places” with us.

JESUS CHRIST IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE.  NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER BUT BY HIM.

I will hold that truth as lightly as the hammering that was done to drive the nails into my Saviour’s hands and feet . . . as lightly as the pressure that it took to push the crown of thorns into His sacred head.

If Kate’s truths are so irrelevant and fleeting that she can “hold them lightly,” then she doesn’t understand Truth . . . or the healing, transforming benefits of Truth . . . or the sacrifice required to win a hurting world to the Truth it needs so desperately . . . or the eternal consequences of not proclaiming the Truth.

But, what else is new?

‘She Speaks from a Very Deep Place’

Yeah, I’m not even touching that one.

Greg, I’m so very glad I’m not the only one whose mind went there…

Jesus did provide the bread of life or the “Good News,” that since one Man has obeyed the Word, and has now been resurrected, that we all have the opportunity for peace of mind in whatever condition we are in, because fairness and justice will also be our reward in an eternal afterlife in heaven.

That is what MDG should be about, not food.

I must say, I’d be pretty impressed if you could get the UN to go along with that one. I guess that’s the difference between a church and an NGO. Both good, but their work is different. And, for those of us who forget in the midst of such blatant horrors around the world, the Church’s work is more important. Only as a result of the church’s eschatologically significant work can real and lasting social improvement be accomplished.

And mine as well, St. Anononymous.

“A very deep place”—possibly Milton’s Abyss. If she can’t find the words to present Jesus as “the way, the truth, and the light” for all the people of the world, then does she know Christ in his essential mission? And since she is vigorously pushing some mission, is it the Subtle Sinister Substitute (“Hath God said….?).

Hmm…this reminds me of something:

She’s slippy
Your’re sliding down
She’ll be there when you hit the ground

It’s alright, it’s alright, alright
She speaks from a Very Deep Place
It’s alright, it’s alright, alright
She thinks in mysterious ways
Ah…ah…ah…

Sorry U2

There is a very condemnatory essay on the lostness of the episcopal church at Anglicans Ablaze referenced at T19 (with the comments closed, an annoyingly more common occurence).

Truth to place second fiddle to unity. That strategy promises to be short lived.

I have a “deep place” in my backyard. It’s where the septic tank is buried.

snarko magnifico

Snarksworth: 

TRUTH LITE.

Hilarious. That is surely the bon mot of the day, maybe the week. Thus, you are declared the recipient of the highly sought after Middle Finger Hoist Them On Their Own Petard Award for Really Funny Comments By Deranged Posters Who Cast Aspersions On Sanctimoniously Nuanced Presiding Bishops Who Speak From Deep Places Like Pot Holes.  Congratulations!

We await further Snarkerly brilliance.

Teddy

Episcopal leader seeks to mend church rift

No, that’s “Episcopal leader seeks to rend church miffed.”

I’m not so sure the continual use of “deep place” and “deep” is all so accidental.  In Gnosticism, the ill-defined deity is known as the “Deep” or the “Abyss”—the “Pleroma.”  This is not the only Gnostic element in the syncretism of the PB and those like her.

” She (KJS) listens to everything that’s said, then goes deep.”

Yeah….......to receive a pass from Satan.

robroy, OT, but I saw that “comments closed” one time too many a few months ago and haven’t been back to T19 since.

robroy, OT, but I saw that “comments closed” one time too many a few months ago and haven’t been back to T19 since.

In defense of Kendall, comments are not totally closed. Just put your comment in an email (as instructed) and send it Kendall. He does that sometimes in order to moderate comments about postings that tend to bring out the worst on both sides. I don’t particularly like it but I can certainly see why he does it.

the snarkster

“if all sides in the current debate over sexuality and Scripture could “hold their truths more lightly,” they might yet find a way forward—”
I wonder if the PBess has, as of yet, asked Mss. Russell, Kaeton and Crew to “hold their truths more lightly.”  She couldn’t have, now that I think of it: She still has her head on her shoulders.

That instead her notion of reconciliation is to take everyone to court and her concept of the broadness of TEC is that everyone can believe what they want, as long as they believe what she believes.

Come on now, be fair.  She will let us believe whatever we want as long as we keep quiet about it, pay our tithes and write the trust funds into our wills, and let her disregard Scripture, tradition and reason (and Primates, and Creeds, and the BCP).

Robroy and CarolynP,

Or you could comment at the original poster’s blog. Comments are wide open over there.

I have a blog thingy

Somebody really needs to put together a Piskie news release bot.  This is such a target-rich environment.

tjmcmahon,

Please add to your “as long as” additions the following:
— interpret and use the constitution and canons of TEC as she sees fit without any checks and balances whatsoever
—let her and her chancellor litigate the living daylights out of any orthodox that dares to even merely be
—allow some of the shepherds in TEC obfuscate, procrastinate, mislead, and waffle all over creation, again, without any checks and balances whatsoever

tjmacmahon, you’re right. I wasn’t quite fair. You were much more fair. :-(

Did you notice +KJS is going to write Bishop Iker a SECOND letter?  Is this coming from the deep place - the Abyess AKA the Lake of Fire?

Josip - she is sending a second letter - but not to Iker (no way she could follow his response!)

Jefferts Schori said she planned to send a second letter of warning to Schofield before the convention and still hoped to change his mind

Re: the “second letter” (I think it will go to +Schofield, rather than +Iker, although he is no doubt on the second letter list as well.  I wonder if one also went to +Ackerman prior to his convention.  Of course, his constitution was already amended 15 or 20 years ago, if I recall correctly, so he was probably already on double secret probation)

Is it just me, or does anyone else see a certain parallel between 815’s current pursuit of the orthodox who are leaving and the pharoh chasing the people of Israel across the momentarily dry Red Sea?  Pursuit of the fleeing faithful in an attempt to destroy them did not work out very well.

Not a very scientific quote.  I assume she meant suspend belief that their are truths.  Not a very religous quote either come to think of it.  Why didn’t she just get into politics - at least you can be nasty there and not seem out of place.  Perhaps she still has time for a third career.  Someone posted recently that she is paid $1 million a year - is that actually true?

Maybe all we need to do is to hold our polities lightly? But is that even legal in public?

I have a blog thingy

KJS?  We Aren’t Leaving.  Southern Cone, last I checked, is still in communion with Canterbury.

William Witt wrote:

I believe that one must put on one’s hip boots to go to the deep place.

Do I remember correctly? Isn’t the deep place where the ordure is piled? Or is that offal of me to ask?

Blessings and regards,
Martial Artist
—One of the punnier people you’ve never met. (© 2007, Σμαρτασσ, Υνλτδ)

P.S. Groaning is permitted and will not only not distress the punner, but will actually be taken as a sign of efficacy.

Is there a way to have a media sheet of the PB statements that are contradictory, disingenuous, or newspeak available to give to major newspapers or reporters so that they are up to speed with her remarks and can then ask her pointed questions?

Moving from pun to metaphor, notice that for her truth is something to hold in one’s hand, while for the orthodox it is the firm ground on which we stand.

Σμαρτασσ

Martial Artist, I’m glad I remember my Greek alphabet.

I’m confused.  How does one ‘hold truth lightly’ that was in some instances delivered by angels, and in all instances stained by martyrs’ blood?

Truth Lite*
  Great Taste!
  Less Filling!

  (She may be on (to) something.)

  Two lessons I took away from a California pastorate:

  1.  Don’t put the kid with Torettes in the front row of
              the church choir.

    2.  Let someone talk long enough….they’ll invariably
        name the baby.

Man, is that rich! The article not only describes her in the most positive terms, it also allows her to portray herself as a moderate (!) without any view to the contrary.

If KJS is a moderate, then the down is up, up is down, and veritable herds of swine have just taken to the air.

It just steams me that she would even dare to claim such a thing. Its an affront to true moderates, like yours truly, everywhere.

PS.

And….. she has the nerve to act like the issue is already settled with the moderate middle of the TEC, that all is well, and its just the extremists (not her) on either end of the spectrum that are causing the trouble.

Yearrrrrgh!

*vent over*

StayinAnglican, I think this site will help you stay in touch with the modern Episco-speak.

Please note, that site is not mine.

Mine is much more dolphin-like
I have a blog thingy

It doesn’t matter what you believe, as long as you’re sincere!  And this is the most sincere looking pumpkin patch in the whole wide world! (Linus: It’s the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown)

I expect this will be their next theological gem.  Or have we already heard this one?

KTF!...mrb

Σμαρτασσ
OK, I can copy and paste it, but how in the world does one write in “Greek” in HTML.  Somebody, please email me the instructions for this before the commenatrix finds her Greek alphabet.  (lets see, that would be rho-omicron-tau-phi (close as I can get to F)-lambda-mu-alpha-omicron- or something like that, right?)

In Greek: Σμαρτασσ

In Geek: smRt@$$.

Schori’s “nuanced views” come from the same deep place as Griswold’s “pluriform truths” (oh, how I miss Gris-speak!). 

Where I came from, the “deep place” was the one where the sun don’t shine.  (Is that what you didn’t want to touch, Greg?)

This whole thing is really quite incredible.  Reminds me so much of 1984.  Truth certainly is the victim of the 815 spin parade.

“She speaks from a very deep place,” said Valerie Valle, a priest from Arroyo Grande near San Luis Obispo

Perhaps it is from that “very deep place” whence funds come, for raining down litigation, and bankrolling the ACC and Lambeth ‘08.  And when she “speaks” from that “very deep place,” she expects everyone to stop and listen, as if she were E.F. Hutton.

Very deep place ............ Labyrinth’s pit of eternal stench.
AP+

tjmcmahon,

I have sent you brief instructions in a Private Message as to how I did it. Please feel free to pass it on to anyone else who asks.

Blessings and regards,
Martial Artist

Frank Griswold used to want to take us to a “deep place” too.  Only it was dark down there—and hot, very hot…

Perhaps, Jefferts Schori said, if all sides in the current debate over sexuality and Scripture could “hold their truths more lightly,” they might yet find a way forward—together.

Is that anything like holding your manhood cheap if you didn’t fight on St. Crispin’s Day?

Σμαρτασσ, Υνλτδ

Okay, I give up.  Σμαρτασσ  seems to be a form of the word meaning “myself”

but Υνλτδ  has no vowels!

Υνλτδ =‘Unltd’ as in Unlimited?

μα: λΟλ!

2/3*(pun)

Anam Cara,

Don’t attempt to translate it, rather transliterate it, i.e., replace the Greek letters with their phonetically equivalent roman characters, preserving capitalization.

Secondarily, the last time I checked, upsilon (Υ) was a vowel. Also, the English abbreviations Ltd. (“Limited” as in limited liability corporation) and Unltd. (the logical extension of “Ltd.”) have only one (1) vowel between them, namely “U” which is essentially the phonetic equivalent of the Greek upsilon.

carl,

That is correct.

tired,

Thank you for your expression of appreciation for the humor.

Blessings and regards,
Martial Artist

I get it now!
Thanks all!

When I was “in the world” I searched for truths to help me understand life.  Then the Truth has found me, and I have life. Holding my own truths, I was judging those truths by my confusion:  Now the Truth is holding me, and the confusion is judged, and crucified. 

There is only one Truth, and any other “truths” stand or fall by how they deal with Him.  What can be simpler?

Robert