TLC: Seattle Parish Offers Astrology Workshop

You’ve got to read the whole thing…

This guy’s a licensed counselor?

Insert “typical Northwest nutjob” comment here….

He went to Notre Dame?  Either their theology department is in sorry shape, or he learned nothing.

Why an ostensibly Christian church would host a workshop combining two other faiths (Hinduism or Buddhism, attached to astrology) is beyond me.  Both Mr Keusal and the rector of St Andrew’s are in theological La La Land.

They would do well to re-read Clement of Alexandria (e.g. against the Heathen, chapter 6)

A great crowd of this description rushes on my mind, introducing, as it were, a terrifying apparition of strange demons, speaking of fabulous and monstrous shapes, in old wives’ talk. Far from enjoining men to listen to such tales are we, who avoid the practice of soothing our crying children, as the saying is, by telling them fabulous stories, being afraid of fostering in their minds the impiety professed by those who, though wise in their own conceit, have no more knowledge of the truth than infants. For why (in the name of truth!) do you make those who believe you subject to ruin and corruption, dire and irretrievable? Why, I beseech you, fill up life with idolatrous images, by feigning the winds, or the air, or fire, or earth, or stones, or stocks, or steel, or this universe, to be gods; and, prating loftily of the heavenly bodies in this much vaunted science of astrology, not astronomy, to those men who have truly wandered, talk of the wandering stars as gods? It is the Lord of the spirits, the Lord of the fire, the Maker of the universe, Him who lighted up the sun, that I long for. I seek after God, not the works of God.

And Later, after discussing the failure of Greek Philosophy, poetry, astrology etc.

It is now time, as we have dispatched in order the other points, to go to the prophetic Scriptures; for the oracles present us with the appliances necessary for the attainment of piety, and so establish the truth. The divine Scriptures and institutions of wisdom form the short road to salvation. Devoid of embellishment, of outward beauty of diction, of wordiness and seductiveness, they raise up humanity strangled by wickedness, teaching men to despise the casualties of life; and with one and the same voice remedying many evils, they at once dissuade us from pernicious deceit, and clearly exhort us to the attainment of the salvation set before us

The center intends to “expand this ministry into a number of new and exciting areas.”

Yes, one can see the next course:

Ba’al worship - Reconnecting with an older tradition to get closer to God. 

Description:  As the Presiding Bishop noted we should not put God in the small box of our understanding.  Join us as we explore the biblical worship of Ba’al and reconnect the the religion of our spiritual forepersons and open ourselves to new realms of spirituality.  Dr. Louis Cypher will lead this exciting new journey and open our minds to new posibilities.

Another Episcopal innovation.

RSB

I once lived near the Seattle area thanks to the US Navy and I was so impressed by the beauty that I’ve always thought it would be nice to live there again.  Nope… I’m giving that thought up completely. 

To bad there’s not a way to bless a daily rain shower as holy water and give the city and all it’s churches a good soaking.

1.  “Father. forgive them, for they know not what they do.”  I really feel for the people being led astray by these kinds of teachings.

2.  Note that it reads “‘Spirit’s’” (with internal italics) rather than “THE Spirit’s”

It is so ironic that the most highly educated civilization in the history of the world is slipping into neo-paganism.  When I ask myself how this can happen, I come to the conclusion that whenever our understanding of Christ as Messiah (the virgin birth, the miracles, the atonement, the bodily resurrection, the ascension, the coming again in glory) and our experience of the Holy Spirit (as illustrated in the New Testament) is diminished, something else fills the void.  The erosion of the Trinity shapes a more unitarian faith, from which it is much easier to slip into paganism. 
I’m just a church lady, but that’s my best understanding.  It will be interesting to see if the bishop and the presiding bishop rebuke this.

But you are missing the point.  The current unpleasantness is all about homosexuality, and if we could just get past that, there are no problems in TEC.  I was recently assurred this by a TEC bishop, so it must be true.

Another point to raise—
So many moderates (who used to be on the left, but now they’re in the middle) maintain that they can be inclusive of the GLBT agenda and, at the same time, maintain the traditional beliefs proclaimed in the creeds.  Can they?  It seems to me that the more deeply entrenched the GLBT agenda becomes, e. g. as in Olympia, the more threatened are the traditional beliefs.  This is the same diocese that had an Episcopal priest practicing Islam.

“This is not an occult science. This is not one of those crazy systems of divination and astrology. That stuff’s hooey, and you’ve got to have a screw loose to go in for that sort of thing. Our beliefs are fairly commonplace and simple to understand. Humankind is simply materialized color operating on the 49th vibration. You would make that conclusion walking down the street or going to the store. ” - Terry Bohner, A Mighty Wind

“It is so ironic that the most highly educated civilization in the history of the world is slipping into neo-paganism.”

We are more widely educated than highly educated.  The criteria have slipped quite dramatically in my lifetime.

You’re right, Hope. We’re less highly educated with each generation, and I don’t understand that one either.

Where is the diocesan bishop in protecting the faith?  As I recall he was AWOL when the story broke about the priest who practiced Islam in his diocese, and the bishop of R.I. (where the priest was canonically resident) finally had to step in.  Now this.  Seems to me that our bishops are too busy with administrative tasks to recognize real heresy when it surfaces at parish level.

Dear Anglicanhopeful,
If you remember, this is the bishop that thought EpiscopoMuslismism was absolutely wonderful.
The bishop isn’t too busy to welcome all sorts of non-Christian, pagan, and heretical beliefs.  I doubt that anyone will be anything but delighted with this humanistic, Hindu-ish, pagan drivel.
And IMHO, this “counselor” needs his liscense yanked.
Jane, Edwin’s wife (and a psychiatrist)

Thanks, Hope.  ‘Widely educated’ is more accurate.
I’ve had another thought.  We become self-assured in our educational credentials, place our own ideas above the instruction of Holy Scripture, and from there it is easier to slip into paganism.  Trusting ourselves other than God (a form of idolatry, a form of worshipping creature rather than Creator), we then more easily move into other forms of worshipping created order rather than Creator—animism, Druidry, ancestor worship, astrology.
It fits together, doesn’t it?  Placing our own ideas above the instruction of Holy Scripture is necessary to erode the Trinity.  Placing our own ideas above Holy Scripture is necessary to worship of the created order

The bishop isn’t too busy to welcome all sorts of non-Christian, pagan, and heretical beliefs.  I doubt that anyone will be anything but delighted with this humanistic, Hindu-ish, pagan drivel.
And IMHO, this “counselor” needs his liscense yanked.

Yes, one does wonder when +KJS will be sending her nice little note concerning the bishop’s health and the possibility of declaring an abandonment of communion.

RSB

“We become self-assured in our educational credentials, place our own ideas above the instruction of Holy Scripture, and from there it is easier to slip into paganism. “

The whole language of learning has changed and I cringe at posting on boards like these for fear of being misinterpreted.  But when I was educated “reason” meant looking at a wide range of data, separating fiction and opinion from fact insofar as humanly possible in as objective manner as one could manage.  It did NOT mean the kind of subjective rationalization that passes for “reason” these days.  One did not come up with an opinion and look for ways to support it in the data or ignore the context.  One went to the data and tried to discern the truth.  Through a glass, darkly of course.
Now we live in an age that has discarded the concept of truth on the one side, and scorns the concept of reason on the other.  Both seem to be missing the point.

Thank you, Hope.  Beautifully stated.

Itching ears indeed.

Hope, I agree fully (assuming that I am not misinterpreting you).

I have frequently been told that Anglicans stand by “Hooker’s three legged stool” of scripture, reason, and tradition; and that evangelicals emphasize scripture, Anglo-Catholics tradition, and our worthy opponents reason. I always find it ironic that it is the ones who claim to represent reason are the very ones who are abandoning it in favour of   “subjective rationalisation.” Ironic, but not surprising. As they say, a ship without an anchor drifts with the tide.  Reason without something firm to build it upon and check it against is at best useless, and at worst very dangerous.

“Reason without something firm to build it upon and check it against is at best useless, and at worst very dangerous”

Absolutely.  Reason is a tool, not an end in itself.  I think it was meant to help us find God, not to help us deify our own opinions.

It’s a good thing bishops are out there defending the flock by divesting churches that don’t pay their diocean assessment.  You never know what heresies might slip through the cracks if they relaxed their eternal vigilance.  Why, they might even have to start charging people with abandoning communion.

carl

Why does this surprise anyone.

It is just another predictable manifestation of the chaos that results when you deviate from the plumb line of Scripture.

It is why you cannot be unevenly yoked.

When ya think it can’t get worse, there it goes again–worse. I had friends ask today, “So are you still going to that church?” <sigh>
The thing is just an embarrassment.

But aren’t these folks in a different kind of trouble now? Flooding? Any news from the faithful ones?

I think the Book of Daniel has much to say about this. The “creme de la creme” of all the pagan systems of learning was present in abundance and at the disposal of Nebuchadnezzar and Belshazzar. Daniel, on the other hand, was a man solely consecrated to the one true God and His law, and would not violate his allegiance to the Same, even on pain of death. God, through Daniel, demonstrated unequivocally that His giftings and knowledge were far superior than that of any of the “magicians, enchanters, astrologers and diviners”, because “the spirit of the holy gods” was in him (Daniel, chapters 2,4,5). “When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. You must be blameless before the LORD your God. The nations you will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for you, the LORD your God has not permitted you to do so”. (Deut. 18:9-14). The themes of reincarnation and karma, such as Dr. Keusal wishes to impart, are Hindu, and not Christian, and as such, Mr. Keusal seeks to turn Christians away from Yahweh and to other gods. Apparently, “other gods” are things which the Dio of Olympia seems to be quite enthusiastic about. “Hear now, O Israel, the decrees and laws I am about to teach you. Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you….The LORD your God destroyed from among you everyone who followed the Baal of Peor, but all of you who held fast to the LORD your God are still alive today. See, I have taught you decrees and laws as the LORD my God commanded me, so that you may follow them in the land you are entering to take possession of it. Observe them carefully, for this will show your wisdom and understanding to the nations, who will hear about all these decrees and say, “Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.” What other nation is so great as to have their gods near them the way the LORD our God is near us whenever we pray to him?  And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before you today?” (D eut. 4:1-8)

No great surprise that Seattle would be hosting such a conference, after all, as earlier stated, they had the MuzziePalian priestess this year, and embraced her. After San Francisco, Seattle is home to more moonbats, per capita, than anywhere else in the country.

Jane, Edwin’s wife wrote:

If you remember, this is the bishop that thought EpiscopoMuslismism was absolutely wonderful.

A quick correction. This is the same diocese but not the same bishop. Bp Warner has retired and our new bishop was consecrated about 2-1/2 months ago. This workshop may well have been set up before that. I guess it is time for me to get out my letter paper and send him a little note, and maybe have another try at getting in “letters to the editor” in the diocesan newsletter.

God bless you for speaking out, kyounge1956.

I haven’t done anything yet

Here is the Contact Us Bishop’s page of the Diocese of Olympia, for anyone who wants to communicate directly with Bishop Rickel.

The generic Diocese info is:

D i o c e s e   of   O l y m p ia
1 5 5 1   1 0 t h   A v e n u e   E
P. O.  B o x   1 2 1 2 6
S e a t t l e ,  W A   9 8 1 0 2

p h o n e: ( 2 0 6 )  3 2 5 - 4 2 0 0 · ( 8 0 0 ) 4 8 8 - 4 9 7 8
f a x: ( 2 0 6 )  3 2 5 - 4 6 3 1
e m a i l :  i n f o @ e c w w. o r g

This is the email address for the new bishop of diocese of Olympia:
.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Apologies that I got the bishops wrong—Jane, Edwin’s wife

St Andrews Seattle has a variety of other workshops, including faith-affirming material like ‘Joseph Campbell Illuminates the Christian Myth’. Wondering if these kinds of explorations have hit the radar of the new bishop yet.

“St Andrews Seattle has a variety of other workshops, including faith-affirming material like ‘Joseph Campbell Illuminates the Christian Myth’.”  Oh, brother. Reminds me of the warning that the Apostle Peter gave in 2 Peter ch. 2, about false teachers bringing in destructive heresies, even “denying the Lord who bought them.” Why is it that so many of the liberal “Christian” intelligentsia-like those from the “Jesus seminar”-take such joy in denigrating the person and role of Christ?

oscewicee,

You’re right, Hope. We’re less highly educated with each generation, and I don’t understand that one either.

This is not the thread for the discussion, but it is quite easy to understand. The perverse result (paying an ever greater share of total income for a decreasingly valuable product) is, at least in large part, due to the virtual monopoly on education enjoyed by government run schools. Once again, the population paying for the product (K-12 education in this case) is not identical to the population consuming the product (i.e., children and their parents). This sort of declining product quality occurs every time you get that disconnect between purchaser and consumer.

Blessings and regards,
Martial Artist

anglicanhopeful,

In response to your comment

he was AWOL when the story broke about the priest who practiced Islam in his diocese, and the bishop of R.I. (where the priest was canonically resident) finally had to step in.  Now this.

I would only point out that there has been a change of bishops between the two events you cite. Perhaps that is even more discouraging, but there it is.

Blessings and regards,
Martial Artist

A quote from Spe Salvi, (the recent Papal encyclical)  is relevant here:
” Paul illustrates the essential problem of the religion of that time quite accurately when he contrasts life “according to Christ” with life under the dominion of the “elemental spirits of the universe” (Col 2:8). In this regard a text by Saint Gregory Nazianzen is enlightening. He says that at the very moment when the Magi, guided by the star, adored Christ the new king, astrology came to an end, because the stars were now moving in the orbit determined by Christ[2]. This scene, in fact, overturns the world-view of that time, which in a different way has become fashionable once again today. It is not the elemental spirits of the universe, the laws of matter, which ultimately govern the world and mankind, but a personal God governs the stars, that is, the universe; it is not the laws of matter and of evolution that have the final say, but reason, will, love—a Person. And if we know this Person and he knows us, then truly the inexorable power of material elements no longer has the last word; we are not slaves of the universe and of its laws, we are free. In ancient times, honest enquiring minds were aware of this. Heaven is not empty. Life is not a simple product of laws and the randomness of matter, but within everything and at the same time above everything, there is a personal will, there is a Spirit who in Jesus has revealed himself as Love[3].”

Susan Peterson

” this is the same diocese, but not the same bishop. “

Maybe not…......but the same result…...... each bishop allowing heresy and lunacy to run rampant in their diocese. Can things get any worse for TEC? This denomination is an absolute and total joke….......though the joke is far from being funny. Good Lord have mercy.