+VGR: ‘I always wanted to be a June bride’

Well, this is a T19 “comments are closed” item if I ever saw one.

Mere words fail me…..........(but not for long).

the snarkster

The word that comes to me is “sick”.  Both the website and my stomach from seeing it.  June bride, indeed.  Lord have mercy.

What can one say to this? I thought the headline Greg used was a joke or an exaggeration. Then I read VGR’s (edited) actual words. This is absolutely blatant in-your-face stuff. Hope Rowan likes the way things are going, and that he appreciates the restraint the happy couple are exercising.

My husband’s comment: “I wonder if he’s going to wear strapless?”

In VGR’s statement we see the polarity given by God, bride and groom, male and female.  Even VGR can’t get away from it (although I would guess that his comment was made in jest).

I wonder if he has a pattern registered at Gays R Us?

the snarkster

At least we have it straightened out as to who’s the bride and who’s the groom.

...back in the Briar Patch,

I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m skipping the garter toss.

Perhaps this will awaken some who are in denial about the issue.
God Help Us!

Wearing a raspberry clergy shirt with a cleric collar and pectoral cross

Go forth; Be fruity and divide!

Dad blast it, I was eating my lunch while reading this ....

Also, don’t you love the comment about VGR’s (edited) *raspberry* shirt???

Eeeeeeeyuck!

“The greatest single hindrance to achievement of full rights for gays and lesbians can be laid at the doorstep of the three Abrahamic faiths—Judaism, Christianity and Islam. It’s going to take people of faith to end discrimination,” said Robinson, who was invested as the ninth bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of New Hampshire in 2004.

So, now we know +Gene’s mission - overturning the faith once delivered.

RSB

It’s not just the first marriage of a gay bishop, but it’s the first solemnization of a menage a trois: Mark Andrew, V Gene Robinson and V Gene Robinson’s ego.

I have a blog thingy

Katherine Allen, a Catholic from Fort Lauderdale, said she also believes that marriage is between a man and woman and interconnected with procreation.

  You can’t believe everything you hear.

Hmmm: a June wedding.  Will he choose a honesuckle or a rose theme?  Seriously, why does this make me think of Rocky Horror: Toast!

Rainbow theme!

Interestingly, when I clicked the link to the story it set off our firm’s computer security and denied access, I presume because there must be sexual content on that page.

If that isn’t a statement about today’s Episcopal Church.

R S Bunker,

I read that, too. I think you are right, and it is not just +Gene’s mission. There really is an organized group who want to undermine the content, drive out the parishioners and sell the properties. They want to destroy what they perceive as the source of the discrimination against them.

But also notice the worried looks on their faces (when they are not loaded up with Botox and instead you see the frozen mask look). They know they are lying about so much. Are they wondering ... what if there really is a God and ... this really is God’s Word?

my partner of 20 years and I will enter into such a legal union next June.”

Intentional, flagrant transgression for 20 years. And now the bishop revels in his time.

Indeed, Jesus wept.

“Go forth; Be fruity and divide!”  Piedmont, that was hysterical!

I would love to see the invitation list.  Rowan?  PB?  Louie Crew?

I thought the line about being the bride was a joke. In fact I was thinking that it was even a bit of a mean one, since I figured that Bishop Gene wouldn’t be so camp as to describe himself in a woman’s role.

Boy was I wrong. Crikey.

OTOH I’m not sure why, since I didn’t believe the Louie Crew drag-queen persona either until I read it on his own website. I thought it was a malicious slur until I actually read his own words. And then I read it twice.

Seriously, TEC is beyond satire at this point.

Of course this is another example of It’s All About Gene.  The timing of this, coming just before Lambeth, is so deliberate, his wanting to be a June bride nothwithstanding.  He and his partner will show up at Lambeth as whatever you call two gay guys pretending they are married, just to make a point, and just to alienate those who don’t think it’s all so wonderful.  It’s a particular slap in the face to the Archbishop of Canterbury.  All of which means nothing, since he won’t do anything about anything.

And I guess this talk was at a school. Is this the same seminar he will deliver at Lambeth 2008?

Canterbury, are you reading the news wires or just speaking nasties against the US? This is the listening process right? Get it straight folks. The one and the two and the three monotheisms are out. +VGR, bishop of fruitful causes is in.

You just can’t make this stuff up.

...back in the Briar Patch,

May Almighty God be his judge and do’t forget VGR (edited) and Mark plan to honeymoon at Lambeth with the ABC!!!!

I guess it is better that they go to Lambeth married than living in sin, or something like that.

Well, I am speechless.  He claims he has been in a relationship with his partner for 20 years.  Wasn’t he still married to the mother of his children at that time?......If so, he was not only engaging in the sin of a homosexual liason but in adulterous behavior, as well.  It couldn’t get much worse.

Does the bishop get to pick out the groom’s cake?  Or does the honor go to Mark?

Petra, he divorced his other wife in 1986.

It is no coincidence that this article surfaces on the same day as the astrology class article.

Once seperated from the Word, there are no rules, no boundaries, no limits to the outrages and offenses to God.

Perhaps apropos of the Episcopal Church now offering training in Astrology, you can view Bishop Robinson’s astrological charts here:
http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/RobinsonGene.htm
I didn’t try to figure out how the stars are aligned for Bishop Robinson, in part because Scripture teaches we should have nothing to do with witchcraft. 

Thanks, Chazaq, for the info.  I guess he waited a year to “formalize” his relationship with his partner.

“It may take many years for religious institutions to add their blessing for same-sex marriages and no church, mosque or synagogue should be forced to do so.”

So I’m sure he’s told Crew, Coward, Russell, et. al. to back off…

I guess the only thing left is speculation as to whether JJ Bruno will be conducting the ceremony - without his own knowledge, of course.

I can hear it now - the Rainbow Castrati Boys Choir at his/her/its ceremony.

‘I always wanted to be a June bride’

Who do you think you are, Gene? 
...The incarnation of Mr. Potato-Head?

How sick can this man be?  I am totally disgusted by his comments.  Homosexuality has been around for more than 2,000 years.  It was wrong back in the time of Our Savior Jesus Christ and it is just as wrong today.  God have mercy on us.

Oh no, I just remembered that I have a conflict for the month of June.

I am beginning to wonder if SF should not just ban all posts and ommentary and “news” items on VGR’s nuptuals all together.  It is distracting from the work of the Lord.  It makes half of us sarcastic, and the other half irate.  Let’s just pray for the poor man.  And ignore his grandstanding- all he wants is the attention, we should stop giving it to him.
TJ

Amen, TJ

The last paragraph of the article shows the problem:

Nova law student Brian Kirlew, a Catholic, said he opposes discrimination against anyone, and thinks people often cloak it with religious justification. The essence of Christianity is helping the less fortunate, he said. The debate over homosexuality is distracting.
“Jesus’ predominant message is taking care of the poor,” Kirlew said.

I’m afraid Brother (or Sister) McMahon is right, and I am in the half that just gets irate when I read this kind of stuff. Maybe it’s best that I not read any more articles about the Current Incumbent of the See of New Hampshire. I read in today’s paper that the months of December and January have the highest incidence of heart attack and stroke, and I don’t want to “just be a statistic”.....

Let’s just pray for the poor man.  And ignore his grandstanding- all he wants is the attention, we should stop giving it to him.

I agree. We are going to be assaulted with an endless parade of stories like this one from now thorugh June. Why read them? Why post them? Why talk abou them? They’re just total distractions.

tj,

I hear ya… but the best option would be to leave comments open, and for everyone to behave themselves better. Hope springs eternal, which is why I both post these items, and leave comments open.

But I can’t help myself:

“Robinson also tried to link what he sees as oppression of human rights of homosexuals to discrimination against woman, blacks and others. “

What a wonderfully transparent way of trying to build support for a cause of no moral value…link it to causes of great moral value. The difference, My Most Gracious Lord New Hampshire, is that nowhere in the Bible, outside of those passages dealing with sexual morality, are women’s activities declared to be abominations.  The concept of “race” is a social and cultural one, not a theological one (other than, as Hank Hannegraf points out, in that Paul calls on us to “run the race.”)  But homosexual activity is consistently described as an abomination leading to physical and spiritual sickness and death—regardless of how much its proponents might try to dress it up behind psychobabble justifications of “commitment”, etc.  There is not a single affirming word spoken about homosexual acts in the entire Bible.

Greg, I agree with you, but for my personal sake, I am not going to click on such posts again.  It is just too upsetting.  Couple this post with Schori’s letter to Bishop John David Schofield and your mind becomes awash with incredulity.  I am now an Anglican and thank God every day for that, but the remembrance of the denomination of my childhood makes present escalating heretical occurrences very painful.  Is it not God’s will that the Episcopal Church wither and die!
I am at the point now where I wonder how anyone has the courage to stay and fight, yet, brave the shame of ECUSA.

Greg explains the policy:

... the best option would be to leave comments open, and for everyone to behave themselves better.

Well, OK.  But short of wit, sarcasm, and barfing in ASCII, I can’t think of any reasonable sort of comment one might make—at least until we know his choice of wedding attire, bridesguy’s outfits, and so on.  We don’t even know his tableware pattern yet… 

And as for best wishes and hoping they’ll be happy together, apparently they’ve already been happy together for quite some time; this is one of those September-September sorts of thing.

So maybe we should ignore this hoopla for something more reality-based and relevant to our spiritual lives.  Like, for example, the story about Britney being pregnant yet again.  (It’s all very well to be fruitful and multiply, but it occurs to me at times that it might be advisable for some people to take an early retirement from the gene pool.)

Mmmpf.  Grump.  Grummmble.

RE: “I guess he waited a year to “formalize” his relationship with his partner.”

Petra, this has been addressed frequently over the past four years.  Gene Robinson did not meet his partner until after the divorce.  Let’s please have no more talk of that.

Thanks.

On the other hand, I will say this again too—the Episcopal church really is the Jerry Springer show every day.

Just incredible.

Pouts…can’t get the smileys on.
Anyway…Don’t forget it has been announced that the “happy” couple is honeymooning in Lambeth, UK and take a tour of a few sights there. Who knows…maybe even tea with Her Majesty???LOL

I sure would hate to see what he would do if he did want to be know as the Gay Bishop of New Hampshire.  IF the Orthodox are serious about winning they should put his quotes in a full page Wall Street Journal Ad.

Or how about Chris. Johnson’s Third Law of Episcopal Thermodynamics, which holds (approximately) that every satirical or farcical statement concerning the Episcopal Church will eventually become reality?

I am at the point now where I wonder how anyone has the courage to stay and fight, yet, brave the shame of ECUSA.

Heh.

“Some people want to live within the sound of a church bell, but I want to run a resuce shop withing a yard of hell.” - C.T. Studd

The other thing is this - every baby and sleeper who is strenthened, and every embattled orthodox TEC priest who is encouraged, hurts the Enemy.  I really can’t think of a better place to do that, than TEC.  At least, if there is, I haven’t been called there. 

It’s payback time, Petra.  I wish I could join you and formalize as a conservative Anglican, but as He would have it, I am called here;  my own cowardice and pride, be d***ed. 

You’re called somewhere else, to also be His instrument. 

s’ all good. 

Is he registered at Bed Bath(house) and Beyond?

As an Advent discipline, I have NOT clicked on Greg’s link, but now I must move quickly to another thread before I lose my nerve and find myself sucked into the black hole of icky debauchery.  Off to see the latest from 815.  Wait…  that won’t work…

Ladies and Gentlemen,
I use that term hopefully.
Please note several comments have been edited to comply with the comment policy which can be found at the bottom of this page and further reiteration thereof can be found here. 
I urge each of you to take Mr. Griffith’s suggestion to heart.  Make ample use of the preview button and if the comment is one which you would be embarrassed if it appeared in your local newspaper (or violates comment policy) resist the urge to hit the submit button.

Britney’s pregnant again??

I’m just over the river… I’ll find a cave or be out of state on the ‘day’ so when the lightning strikes I’ll be clear… of course like many in NH we’ve been waiting for the lighting for a while now….

“...“Jesus’ predominant message is taking care of the poor,” Kirlew said.” Oh, nothing about salvation?

This is why Bp Robinson can go and speak to a roomful of law students or whatever and just say whatever he pleases about scripture.  No-one in the audience has a clue what the Bible really says.

“All of which means nothing, since he[ABC Rowan] won’t do anything about anything”. Now VaAnglican, thats not entirely true. He gets almost livid when he talks about those awful “border crossing Africans.”

“It may take many years for religious institutions to add their blessing for same-sex marriages and no church, mosque or synagogue should be forced to do so”. 

Oh, this is a rich one coming out of VGR.  Especially since it’s my understanding that, prior to most orthodox clergy getting out of his diocese, he routinely would call those who opposed SSB’s on Scriptural/theological grounds into his office and give them a heated lecture on tolerance and bigotry. 

Forget the “raspberry”; maybe a nice shade of lavender would be good…

You couldn’t make this stuff up…my husband’s comment was “Is this Monty Python?”
Jane, Edwin’s wife

Folks who are practising being utterly shocked etc about these remarks might need to spend some quality time with the Comedy Channel.  You go girl.  Lewis Black is way ahead of VGR.  When life gives you laughs, only the most determined people can still make the sourest lemonade out of it.  Raspberry shirt jokes, priceless.  It all boils down to Biff and Muffy.  Imagine that. Que viva dyspepsia. Ole.

Gene,

Would you settle for being a June bug? 

Oh, and you’re not going to wear white, are you?

Moot:

“Some people want to live within the sound of a church bell, but I want to run a resuce shop withing a yard of hell.” - C.T. Studd

A big “high five” on that one.  (But use spellcheck next time!)

Reminds me of the story of the man who lost his car keys in a dark alley, but went to look for them out on the street instead because the light was better there.  Let’s stay in place and use our flashlights.

As for poor deluded Bishop Robinson.  It’s occurred to me that if he left his lover and renounced the gay lifestyle and repented in sackcloth and ashes, he would suddenly become the darling of conservative Christians everywhere.  There would be no end to the glad-handing and back slapping, “atta boy Gene,” etc., etc.  Every pulpit in all of Anglican Christendom would suddenly be open to him and his testimony of repentance and redemption.  And that’s as it should be, if it ever happens.

But that isn’t the Gene Robinson that God has given us to love and witness to—not yet, anyway.  On that score, we will have to make do with the one we have.  If the Father heart of God is grieved by the sin and the folly of this poor sinner—and it most assuredly is—then our own wretchedly sinful hearts ought to be capable of reflecting at least some of that grief, however imperfectly.  And if we are not weeping and praying over this man, and storming Heaven on his behalf, then something is missing from our lives as well as his.

I have no problem with laughing at ridiculous things, and seeing the humor in this situation is perfectly understandable.  But while we’re chuckling a bit, let’s give thanks to almighty God that, by His grace alone, we represent the ninety-nine sheep who can be safely left in place while He goes out in search of the one who is still lost.  Because that is exactly what he is trying to do in Bishop Robinson’s case, or so I believe.  It will be very nice if we do not get in His way.

Of course, the ultimate outcome of that is in God’s hands, not ours.  It may be that Gene Robinson will remain finally impenitent in spite of all that we can do.  But even so, our prayers for him will not have been for nothing.  Not if they succeed in changing us to become more like the people God wants us to be, even if they have no discernible effect on him.  That is also the object of the exercise. 

So let us commend Bishop Robinson and his partner to the never failing care and mercy of the God who brought each of us to a saving knowledge of the gospel of Christ, in the hope that the same miracle can occur in their lives as well, and with the knowledge that no prayer made in conformity to His will is ever uttered completely in vain, regardless of the outcome. 

And hooray for the dreaded commenatrix, red in fang and claw!

Bravo, episcopalienated, bravo.  Thank you.

Surely VGR’s comments here are less shocking than his statements regarding his editting of the Nicene Creed.

Sad.  Just plain sad.

When I saw the headline just now, I thought ‘Comments closed on T1:9’ - and then laughed when I saw the first comment here!

Mad Potter:

with all Christian love… Oh come on! What do you expect? Most of us here think this is openly flaunted Sin-with-a-capital-S. You think we should be pleased by this?

FWIW - Episcopalienated nails it again…

episcopalienated,

Thank you once again for leading by example.

Mad Potter,

Give us all a break with your “progressive” sanctimony. Instead, tell us to which progressive blog you’ll go to “distance yourself from this trash.”

Mad Potter . . .

RE: “You should be ashamed.”

I am sure that the other commenters are Quite As Shattered as I by your low opinion of us.

Surely we will all endeavor to follow your example and—though innately deformed as we are—attempt to model ourselves after someone as esteemed as you.

RE: “Greg , I expect civil and Christian and smart conversation and debate…not this trash.”

We are all pierced to the heart.

As earlier posters stated,” you can’t make this stuff up.” All I can add is Lord have mercy. Nothing further.

I am not sure if insults from someone called Mad Potter are a joke. Does mad refer to being insane or angry or both? And if this is the predisposition, then ... ?

Hey Deja—MP posts on other blogs mostly.

I think that insults may only actually occur if one respects the naming of the person attempting to make the insult.

For instance, if Pol Pot were to have called me a “mass murderer” or if Gloria Steinem were to call me a “patriarchal wanna-be” or if Bill Clinton were to call me a “liar” or if I were to call Pete Sampras a “namby-pamby badminton player” . . . well . . . there would be some question as to whether any actual insult ever occurred.

You know, Mad Potter… I expected more out of this church’s bishops. I expected more of them to vote not to consent to Robinson’s election. After they failed to do that, I expected more of them to call him out when he engaged in these kinds of charades. After they failed to do that, I expected Robinson to at least make a superficial effort to live up to his pledge not “to be the gay bishop,” but as it is, he couldn’t be any gayer if he celebrated the Eucharist in buttless chaps, a Fu Manchu and tinted aviator shades. he can’t stop talking about how gay he is, how wonderful it is to be gay, how he “always wanted to be a June bride,” and on and on and on and on and on and on…

But here’s what we have: Gene Robinson doesn’t want to talk about being a bishop. He doesn’t want to talk about the Gospel, and to the extent he does, it’s about crossing his fingers when he says the Nicene Creed. All Gene Robinson wants to talk about being gay. Gay gay gay gay gay. I’m gay and I love it. All churches will eventually go gay. I’m marrying my gay partner. We’re taking our gay honeymoon to the gay Lambeth conference. We’re going to be gay as can be, and you better get used to it, because gay is here to stay.

But the moment someone ELSE talks about Robinson being gay? Oh, the horror! “All you people want to talk about is the fact that he’s gay! Can’t you leave him alone? All he wants to do is be the best bishop of New Hampshire he can be! Just leave him alone YOU BASTARDS!!!!”

Sorry… that may play with Executive Council and gay magazines, but around here we see it for what it is.

And you call it as you see it!

By the way, I should mention that the last thing I want Gene Robinson to do is to stop talking about being gay, and about how he always wanted to be a June bride. I couldn’t design - or fund - a better campaign to draw attention to the depths of depravity to which the Episcopal church has sunk, if I had all the time and money in the world.

I know it won’t happen, but I would love to see this article placed in every TEC parish bullitin.  Then we could ask “what say you now pew setter?”  “what say you now, TEC June brides, past and future?”  What say you now, TEC grooms who stood at the front of the sanctuary, watching your June bride come down the isle?”  This man bride, whom the bishops chose to lead the “new thing” has glorified himself, and in the process, torn down a magnificent church….

Greg,
He could wear a white wedding dress.

May God have mercy on his soul!

Greg - you and I must have been typing at the same time.  And thank you for defending our anger and snide remarks.  I, for one, am tired of being called every kind of biggot just because of my beliefs.  I am tired of the man bride, along with those who voted and supported him, being given a pass on their trashing of the Gospel….again, thanks Greg….

You know, it is interesting that one thing the lost and the saved have in common is that we both get to sin as much as we want to.  That goes for VGR and me, but in fact I get to sin even more than I want!

Sigh, I thought he was on a “sabbatical.” The Good Lord knows the Church NEEDS a sabbatical from him! Guess he’s on sabbatical from the tiresome church duties he fits in between telling everyone he’s gay and why the world needs to applaud that. Can someone possibly convince him he needs a sabbatical from being out and about?

Holy Scripture uses the word “bride” quite often.  How might these compare to the June bride quoted at the top of the page?

Isaiah 62:5
As a young man marries a maiden, so will your sons marry you; as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride, so will your God rejoice over you.

Psalm 45:9
Daughters of kings are among your honored women; at your right hand is the royal bride in gold of Ophir.

Song of Solomon 4:9
You have stolen my heart, my sister, my bride; you have stolen my heart with one glance of your eyes, with one jewel of your necklace.

Revelation 19:7
Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.

Revelation 21:2
I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

Revelation 22:17
The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.

and finally, from I Thessalonians 4:3-5
It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God;

Raspberry?  He likes raspberry?  Well, I got a raspberry for the Bish right heah!

Seriously, this is more “in your face” gay sodomy from the progressives.  Just what sort of reaction does one expect?

Brother Robinson, fourth-tier inner party member, demonstrates AngSoc minitru doctrine regarding double-double plus-plus love-love surpasses teaching of Jesus of Nazareth Christperson semi-enlightened but pre-full illumination religionist -

Robinson, a divorced father of two adult daughters, emphasized that scripture must viewed in its historical context. Citing specific verses in Leviticus calling male homosexual acts an abomination, Robinson noted that that same holiness code says eating pork is an abomination and that children cursing their parents is punishable with death. He said that the concept of sexual orientation didn’t emerge until about a century
ago.

Jesus said divorce is only permitted with adultery, for which the Episcopal Church used to deny the divorced Communion and view remarriage as adultery, Robinson said.

“We changed our mind as a culture, as a nation, as a church about something we have been very sure about for a couple thousand years.”

Brother Robinson demonstrates to romanist unpersons how full Doubleplustru of the common will of the Party is only known through Schorian principle of triumph of the common will of third, fourth and fifth-tier my generation baby inner party members -

“I believe the Holy Spirit leads us into deeper truth about equality, dignity and truth about every human being. The Holy Spirit is unrelenting, keeps leading and guiding us to the full inclusion of all God’s children.”

“The greatest single hindrance to achievement of full rights for gays and lesbians can be laid at the doorstep of the three Abrahamic faiths—Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Re: criticism of Robinson

I would totally agree with episcopalienated if we were talking about average pew sitter or one new to the church. Heaven rejoices when the lost are found.

But we are talking about people in the office of bishop (similar comments are being made about Ms. Schori, so this applies to her as well). God curses church leaders who lead people astray. These are false teachers in leadership positions - these are people doing evil deeds (that IS NOT too strong a statement).

Jesus told the people to test His actions to determine His character (John 10:22-42). This carries over to the most basic Christian theology: the Creeds focus on actions and events. We state what God, Jesus and the Trinity have done, because Their actions reveal Their character.

Likewise, our actions give insight into whom we serve. Those who truly love Christ and know the Truth should act accordingly (John 14:15-26).

This testing of character is even more crucial for church leaders as they can negatively affect others in addition to themselves - and the greater their sphere of influence the more important the testing becomes. Paul’s teaching was proved to the Bareans because his teaching (his action) were confirmed by Scripture. In The standards Paul outlines for church leaders are indicators of a God-centered life. The tests given by Jesus, Paul and Peter for false leaders also focus on actions - teaching contrary to what the apostles proclaimed, stirring up divisions in the church and bringing disgrace to the Church. Paul clearly demonstrates the difference between true and false leaders (2 Corinthians 11:12-15). Peter speaks in very certain detail about the nature of false leaders (2 Peter 2).

The proper sequence of events would be to remove Mr. Robinson and Ms. Schori from office and THEN worry about their repentance (Rev 2:13-16). Situations like these do call for Seeker Sensitive language or the full protocol one expects around the coffee pot on Sunday morning. Souls are at risk - including those of the current pretenders of these two Sees.

Two brief points on “testing” and “actions”
1) It is not our place to judge the status of another person’s salvation, but there is a clear mandate to test our leaders and find a way out from under their leadership if they are found to be in error
2) I am not espousing a works based righteousness. Rather this is a very Reformed based idea that living out the Law, through the power of the Holy Spirit, is a proper response to our Salvation

Edit on previous post -
Situations like these do NOT call for Seeker Sensitive language nor the full protocol one expects around the coffee pot on Sunday morning.

“... I expected Robinson to at least make a superficial effort to live up to his pledge not “to be the gay bishop,” but as it is, he couldn’t be any gayer if he celebrated the Eucharist in buttless chaps, a Fu Manchu and tinted aviator shades.”

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here. Sure, a buttless chap Eucharist would be a powerful and prophetic witness to the welcoming and inclusive nature of TEC. But, because we must show that we are still sensitive to the concerns (however unfounded) of some of our not-yet-fully-enlightened parishioners, there must first be a careful review of the placement and timing of those rubrics instructing the celebrant to face either the People or the Holy Table (e.g., “Then shall the Priest turn to the Holy Table, and say..”) Surely, this is Prayer Book revision we can all get behind.

episcopalianated:

I hope you don’t take offense at this, but if I were more like you, I’d be a better Evangelical. 

I am cursed.  I am blessed.

TJ speaks truth.  Take the high road.

Peace,

Sheepdog:

on the bride–nice. thanks

texex:

My post really wasn’t about “criticism of Robinson.”  I expect that my own criticisms of his heresy and his manner of life pretty much coincide with those of about 95% of the people who post here regularly.  For what it’s worth, I also believe that he and Mrs. Schori should be deposed from office, and even excommunicated from the fellowship of the Church, unless and until they do show forth the fruits of repentance and amendment of life.  The responsibility they face for their misdeeds is much greater than that of a lay person and they are surely under God’s judgment for their promotion of heresy.

I would not say that I “worry” about their repentance, but I am also not persuaded that the expression of concern I do have for it must be postponed until after their removal from office, a course of action which will almost certainly not be undertaken by the Episcopal Church any time soon.  In fact, the voluntary abdication of those offices on their part as an act of reparation for the sin of causing scandal in the Church, when and if they do repent, is probably much more likely than their involuntary removal as a result of discipline, although neither scenario appears very likely at present, short of a miracle.  With that in mind, I think it’s best to keep praying for them now.

As for God’s curses on those who “lead people astray.”  Again, I have no doubt about it, but since God’s accuracy rate in that department is 100%, and mine is considerably less, I am quite content to leave that to Him.  Until I came to Christ, I was under a curse too.  By His grace, mine was lifted, and I will continue to hope for the same outcome where Bishop Robinson and Mrs. Schori are concerned.

Didn’t understand the references to “seeker sensitive language” and coffee hour protocol.  Must be over my poor head.

God bless!

Moot:

episcopalianated:

I hope you don’t take offense at this, but if I were more like you, I’d be a better Evangelical.

Well . . . if you say so. 

But don’t let my rector find out about it.

I’m supposed to be an Anglo-Catholic.

Mad Potter:

Now you are giving us the raspberries!

VGR not only embarasses himself and his partner when making such an outrageous statement but also the Church itself.  Can he possibly not be aware of this or is this a deliberate act to provoke?  What ever happened to Bishops affirming in their vows that they will strive to ” a wholesome example to all of the people”?

I did not have the opportunity to respond to you last night, SARAH, since I was on my way to our bible study which was very refreshing after this stuff with Robinson.
No, I did not know the information about his partner, Mark, which you said had been out for 4 years or I would not have asked the original question in my first comment.
Yes, I apologize if my second post was offensive.
Thirdly, in reference to the Episcopal Church mimicking the Jerry Springer show on a daily basis, I know what your point was, but, it still bothered me.  You can cut off the TV if you are fed up with fist fights, wacky teen-agers, abusive husbands, etc. In the case of ECUSA, their Jerry Springer antics are performed by men and women “of the cloth” who have the spiritual well being of a whole denomination of people as well as the next generation represented by their children in their hands, many who still have no idea what is going on.  This is such egregious behavior in the context of what they pledged at their ordinations and in the context of the several hundred thousand souls still in the Episcopal pews that it is difficult to put your arms around it.
GREG, thank you for your last couple of posts.
MATT, you’re tops!  Thank you for your last articles, in particular, and everything you write, in general.

At least the battle lines are queerly drawn.

I think I found the link of mutual interest:
http://www.nova.edu/ocean/

Tjmcmahon’s comments on this one are without a doubt notable and correct.
  Where I fall is a rush to post to be whitty.  ( my stupid posting above is a splendid example.)
  But to cut the discourse off during controversial postings runs counter to the purpose of such an excellent blog, to my thought.
  I’ve been set back on my feet time and again by the more excellent postings of cooler and more considered heads..
 
  I’m pretty new to all this.  I’m still sorting out all the acronyms.  Hell,.... I only just found out that the term ‘Global South’ has nothing whatsoever to do with Georgia.

  So what I’m saying is that I really appreciate all the voices, (especially the ones in my head that tell me all the really good stuff about you all),  ....Kidding.

This seems apropos:

Paul says that the Corinthians are to blame, because by taking pride in this man they have hindered him from repenting.  Here he indicates that the problem is one for the whole church, not just for an individual.  That is why he uses the symbol of the leaven, which, although a small thing in itself, transforms the whole lump into its nature.  This man will do the same thing if he is allowed to go unpunished.

John Chrysostom – Homilies on the Epistles of Paul to the Corinthians 15.5

(It refers to 1 Corinthians 5:1-8)

From Wikipedia
“Robinson’s parents were young — his mother Imogene was twenty — and they were hoping for a girl. They named the baby “Vicki Gene Robinson”

*sigh*

Just weighing in here, late, to say that I truly appreciate all the witty/snarky comments in this thread, and would be sad to see this sort of thing go away.

Frankly, I don’t see anything unChristian or unloving about mocking the mock-worthy.  In fact, I personally would consider it a sin of omission on my part not to do so.  Of course, we each have different callings.

Episcopalienated,
I will carry that image around with me, and try to reference it whenever I am thoroughly disgusted and revolted by VGR’s antics.
It really is true, isn’t it? He really is that lost sheep that Christ is looking for and wanting to carry home over his shoulders….

Ah, anglicanlutenist, my friend, sometimes it is only the witty comments on postings like this that keep me from weeping.

I am sad to be made even more fully aware of how self-absorbed and egomaniacal Bishop Robinson seems to be…Perhaps I’m way off base, but somehow he seemed more humble when he was still drinking. I don’t mean that sarcastically. Though I feel his consecration to be an abomination, he was at least a character with whom I felt some sympathy as a human being. I have since lost all sympathy for him and feel he is almost demonic in his drive to destroy the Church to justify his lusts, and to force the Church to justify his lifestyle as well.
  It is like a rabid dog, you may love dogs but you want to stay as far away from a rapid dog as you can get…This is not a man who does not know the truth, the blasphemous thing about it is that he knows the truth and attempts to teach as revealed truth something other…
  While I agree with one of his points, if I understand it correctly, that in a pluralistic society, such as ours, civil laws should be inclusive and protective of as much freedom as possible (including homosexual persons and their relationships)...I do not feel, however, that the Church should be (or feel) compelled to embrace all of the diversity or novelty embraced by a secular society, which is what VGR seems to be insisting. The bishop’s behavior reminds me of the fellow, some years ago that was ordained by Bishop Spong—- I believe he was thought to be the first openly gay priest ordained and thought to be celibate. Soon after, he revealed that he was not celibate and had been sexually active. This priest became very vocal, turned on Spong and the Church with vehemence, and was deposed ultimately. He died of Aids, I think. Both this priest (and I’ve forgotten his name), and Bishop Robinson, as well as those who support and thrust them forward into the limelight, do a disservice to homosexual persons, and the Church. I really find it a sign of sickness that the Episcopal Church would tolerate his consecration or his continued willful behavior ...and “superfluity of naughtiness.”

There is such a thin line between satire and ridicule.  I guess the difference may be one is funny.

Gene Robinson may invite ridicule by making statements such as these, but it doesn’t mean we have to answer that particular call. 

It’s sad, it’s just sad.  He’s a broken man indulged by so-called Episcopal leadership using him to further their own power.  And he doesn’t even get it.  It’s just plain sad. 

bb

There is one thing I am getting absolutely sick and tired of: Every time that +VGR or +Schori (or any other TECusaCorp sacred cow) does or says something outrageous, revisisionistas with their panties in a wad come crawling out the woodwork to castigate us for having the audacity to comment, humorously or otherwise, about it. How about this mad potter, danfee, et al?: Maybe if they would just sit on their hands and keep their damn mouths shut, we would all be a lot better off. If you throw gasoline on a fire, you have no business complaining when it blows up in your face.

ol’ snarky

If you throw gasoline on a fire, you have no business complaining when it blows up in your face

Snarkster:  No loyal Episcopalian would undertake such a horrible action.  Being cognizant of the responsiblitty to be faithful stewards of Earth, they would only use gasohol.

snarkster,

This is a point I’ve been thinking about for a while. These heretics are leading the church over the cliff one sermon, workshop, letter, vote and lawsuit at a time. But the problem is WE point it out…

Greg Griffith says: ” around here we see it for what it is. “

Exactly….......and what it is….....is an abomination. As an aside, that you Greg, Sarah, and Matt for hosting the best religious blog in this country. You are truly warriors for the faith once delivered. SF rocks!

From this “progressive”, I must refute the allegation that I will “with my panties in a wad come crawling out the woodwork to castigate you for having the audacity to comment, humorously or otherwise, about it.”  If Bishop Robinson is going to so publicly make such a comment, IMO, he only has himself to blame when the comments come-a-flyin’. 

Further, as a progressive, who does has some appreciation for the “traditional” role of a bishop, I get extremely tired of having to be tarred by the brush this man yields.

OMA

Don’t want to even think what the entertainment will be at his fiance’s bachelor party will be!  Eeew!

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/071205/photos_ts/2007_12_05t133319_306x450_us_episcopals_diocese;_ylt=AjaXBLM5ozj_Pq2U0lxrXW9g.3QA

FrVan, the cleric you have in mind was Robert Williams.  He was ordained deacon around 1990 by Bp. Spong, although I don’t think he was ever priested. About six months after his ordination, he gave a sermon in which he stated that the Blessed Saint of Calcutta would have had a more complete view of humanity had she been engaged in lesbian sexual affairs (she was still living at the time). Shortly after that, My Lord Newark decided that his ordination and lacked requisite intent, and negated Williams’ “orders”.  Williams left the Episcopal Church, took priestly orders in some obsure denomination on the East Coast, and died of complications of AIDS about five years ago.

A sad story in all respects.

Thank you Kevin for helping my memory. I thought I remembered Williams in a Chasuble, but it may have been a deacon’s dalmatic (sp?)...Thanks again!

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE7D8173CF931A25751C0A966958260&sec;=&spon;=&pagewanted=print

Apparently Williams was a priest according to this New York Times story (above)...

I am in the humiliating position of having been corrected by The Old Grey Lady, but corrected I stand.

Exactly, my friend.  Exactly. 

Mad Potter:
“You should be ashamed.”  When you get through shoulding all over me, consider this:
1. I was an Episcopalian for thirty years.
2.  Before VGR was a bishop, due to his self-serving narcissism, he acted on his own behalf, rather than doing the right thing by me in a situation that was very hurtful to me (I didn’t even know he was homosexual - had nothing to do with that)...even +Edmund Browning put in writing that I had been treated very badly by the Dio of NH.
3.  Once he was elected, a friend challenged me to seek reconciliation with VGR.
4. Even though he had harmed ME I initiated reconcilation
5.  VGR told me he would check out certain facts and get back to me.
6.  That was four years ago.
7.  He and his minions drove me out of TEC (not that I wasn’t grateful to get out)
8.  When he so badly injured me, I sent him a quote from Dante:
“there is a special place in Hell reserved for those, who, in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality”.  I stand by that quote.
And YOU want ME to feel ASHAMED????????  I quite agree with Greg.  I am delighted that VGR consistently acts in a way that brings SHAME and EMBARRASSMENT to all of TEC.  So, Mad, maybe you’re really feeling ashamed and engaging in a little projection???
ps - being so close to the “action” as it were, I can only imagine that Lewie Crew will probably be the flower girl.

Very well put no longer NH Episcopalian.  I certainly know where you’re coming from and you pain.  We in NH have felt the brunt of much of what is going on in the Episcopal Church and with the arrogance of VGR in our own parish and on every tabloid and every gay group on this continent and across the world.  He is more devoted to promoting his lifestyle than to seek repentance and heal the wounds of the church.

Mad Potter The reason so many of us take this the way we do is because VGR is an insult to all that is good and decent and degrades our faith.  He also scandalizes the younger confused youths of our time.  I believe I remember a passage from my youth that said something like this; “any one that scandalizes a child would be better off to have a mill stone tied around his neck and thrown into the deepest part of the ocean.”

It pains me and many others to hear him speak and hurts to my core.  I pray daily that my savior, Jesus Christ, will give me the graces and strength to get through this very troubling time.

“thoughtful and kind, and direct.”  Adam and Eve liked the sound of the serpent, too.  To be quite blunt, Mad Potter, I was abused by a priest in this diocese.  The former bishop Thuener and VGR BLEW IT totally as far as holding this priest accountable was concerned.  This, despite the fact that this priest was also a psychologist and was found GUILTY by the NH Board of Mental Health Practitioners…so it wasn’t just my “imagination”.  There was also a civil suit settled in my favor.  When I went to UNH, Durham, the night the candidates for bishops were interviewed, I closed my eyes and listened as VGR talked about the “anguish” of listening to a woman victimized by a priest…if I didn’t know better, I would have thought he was “thoughtful and kind and direct”.  The reality is, and again, I will be very blunt:  if BS was hot top, VGR would be a super highway.

Lineman
Thanks for your kind words.  It is so difficult to be so close to the pit of Hell.

MP - Your argument along these lines simply does not hold water.  300 at a particular moment versus throughout the day, or during a breaking news event… And that’s just the people who know where to look.  Hmmmmm.  What is that, at least 4 congregations (TEC Avg. 70)? 

The fact that the membership/ASA numbers continue to decline at increasing rates contradicts you.  How many funerals has your church had—and we’re not talking about the Katrina effects.  Down here in Florida, we have a larger share of older people - even with that, it still doesn’t make up the numbers of people leaving.  All those individuals…before the congregations started leaving, too…and dioceses.  Even you joining when you did, didn’t change the negative trend.  Many of us know a different church than you - note the present tense.  Telling us how you’re in the majority and being dismissive of the rest us by dragging out the numbers routine is old, tired and trite - and not very inclusive.

Last time we looked, God isn’t running a democracy.  TEC can pass all the changes in the constitutions and canons it wants - but it still doesn’ t make them correct and true in God’s eyes.  And, personally, we think He prefers the 1928 BCP. 

I can personally see the pain each Sunday in the eyes and voices of “no longer NH Episcopalian” and “Lineman21.”  I have seen first hand how they have been treated here in NH, how they have been lied to (as was I) by not only the diocesean hierarchy but their TEC priest who continually spoke out against Vicki Sunday after Sunday from the pulpit, then he denied it to the same hierarchy.  I have witnessed a former JW of that same church backstab both of them.  All the time he was stating (and emailing) and in meetings he wanted to leave TEC and met to form a new Anglican church in Manchester,, NH, outside of TEC, while at the same time he was reporting everything back to the same priest noted above.  Unless one really knows the vindictiveness of what these two faithful Anglicans have personaly experiened and suffered at the hands of the DioNH personnel and their former TEC church, one should not attack either “no longer NH Episcopalian” or"Lineman21.”  These two speak the truth…and that is why they are now free.

Mad Potter..  You have a right to your opinions and I will not argue that with you.  You have your perceptions and I have mine.  Many do not voice their fears and objections out of fear of being ridiculed, but it does not faze me at this point in my life.  Many people have been hurt by all this and a sense of compassion must be shown.  I feel your condescending attitude would be better served if directed against those that treat us as insignificant and marginal.  My faith has all ways been a part of my life and it is not just a Sunday thing.  If you wish to disagree with something that I have said, please do so, but do not do it from your soap box.

Elanor…  I must have missed the comments of VGR wanting to change the Nicene Creed.  Could you direct me to that or let me know what he had to say?  Thanks

MadPotter, an excellent rule I’ve found in life for evaluating public persons is to see how they treat their subordinates. Not aides and assistants, but the janitorial staff, secretaries and the like. This has cleared up a lot of fog for me.

If you make inquiries about prominent persons in religion and politics, I believe you will receive some eye-opening insights.

It’s really easy to be sensitive and compassionate on television. It’s a lot harder to be that way when life is unscripted and the cameras are off.

I have a blog thingy

Mad Potter
Interesting that you would think money solved the problem - that is truly TEC.  Please notice I didn’t say I “won” a judgement - there was no winning - it was a terrible situation that never should have happened.  I would have traded all the money in the world to have one priest take responsibility for what he did and apologize and for one bishop and one canon to act honorably and stop empowering a destructive priest.  My information about the lawsuit was only to convey that my accusations were well beyond “allegations”.  I took absolutely no joy in all the action I took against this priest.  It is absolutely one of the saddest events in my life.  AND I never would have taken legal action against him (he did say he was a Christian) except that I needed an attorney to go through the process and had no means to pay one.  I had intended to refrain from noting your condescension - however, since Lineman already noted it, I will concur with his opinion.  What I have realized from this exchange is that it doesn’t matter to the “new TEC thingers” when facts are presented - be they spiritual or temporal - about the utter corruption of the present TEC leadership - you will not be swayed by reality.  Thank you for teaching me that.

I have been troubled by the postings on this blog about +VGR.  +VGR has to know what he says and does is held to “a higher standard” because of who he is.  +VGR should also be a shepherd.  When Branch Rickey choose Jackie Robinson he picked some one with the right temperment to carry the weight.  When I read Romans 14:6 and 1 Cor 10:23-24 I don’t think +VGR can carry the weight.  +VGR’s comments beg for some of the “negative” postings and +VGR invites them.  +VGR seems almost to be a caticature of himself.  I used to tell my kids, “don’t try to defend the indefensible”  People trying to defend +VGR’s comments to my mind are doing just that.

Guys come on…

eveybody is entitled to their dream wedding in white…this is the US!

Christian churches everywhere seem to marry the cohabitating, the serially monogamous and the divorced…all looks great in the pictures! Cut him some slack!

In contrast to other gays in religious life, some of whom have caused a number of huge scandals by their covert sexual behaviour,as they kept appearances in public, +VGR is attemping to lead a life which is honest and open to the convictions he holds.We may not share his values nor theological views, but we do have to admit he has shown courage to stand by his convictions !

After 20 years with the same guy he sure has broken a lot of records and has waited a long time to say I do!!! ...June wedding, honeymoon in Lambeth, watch communion crumble…quite a summer itinerary.

Blessings

seraph

Fr. Van,

Let me reach out to you here.  You wrote:

I have since lost all sympathy for him and feel he is almost demonic in his drive to destroy the Church to justify his lusts, and to force the Church to justify his lifestyle as well.

I would delete the “almost”.

Fr Van, this is the man that TEC has gone to bat for.  THey ordained him bishop despite the pleadings of the rest of the AC not to so.  They have dropped the standard teaching of the Anglican Communion (Lambeth 1.10) because of him.  They have lied about their support of the Windsor Report and process for him.  +KJS has been unfaithful to her given word given to the other primates at DES to defend him.  The HOB spent more ink at its latest meeting decrying the lack of an invitation to Lambeth for him than it did on all other issues.

It is clear sir that the leadership of The Episcopal Church has decided that it would much rather defend Gene Robinson than the “Faith Once Delivered”; that it would rather proclaim its own social gospel than the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I beg you to realize what is being done in the Church’s name and to lead your flock away from it.  I am not suggesting that you have to leave the Episcopal Church, but I am suggesting that you need to, at the very least, be a vocal member of the “loyal opposition” and confront this heresy when you see it.

As always my prayers are with you and your flock.

RSB

I really find it a sign of sickness that the Episcopal Church would tolerate his consecration or his continued willful behavior ...and “superfluity of naughtiness.”

Van:  I think that you’re starting to see the light just like the poor fellow whose wife is unfaithful who suddenly realizes that his friends were right all along when they tried to tell him that she was a tramp.

For a non-controversial comment, I would like to reassure FrVan that he spelled dalmatic correctly.

Let’s give the last word to today’s reading from Jude 1-16

7Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural lust,* serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.