Total visitors right now: 85

Click here to check your private inbox.

Welcome to Stand Firm!

San Joaquin Diocesan Convention, Friday

Friday, December 7, 2007 • 12:01 pm


Kevin’s still $115 short on his San Joaquin coverage goal. You can help him out by going here and clicking the “Chip In” button in the upper right.

44 Comments • Print-friendlyPrint-friendly w/commentsShare on Facebook

Is anybody else having trouble with the stream? Mine is pretty “choppy”.

[1] Posted by Bob K. on 12-07-2007 at 03:08 PM • top

yep…same here

[2] Posted by Zoot on 12-07-2007 at 03:11 PM • top

Mine’s choppy as well, but I think that’s just a given in uncut feeds

How is the good Bishop’s health these days? He seems well enough, thank God for that.

Yours in Christ,

[3] Posted by Jacobsladder on 12-07-2007 at 03:13 PM • top

Huh ... they used the RC Prayer of Humble Access ...

[4] Posted by Hosea6:6 on 12-07-2007 at 03:17 PM • top

Something’s wrong with the picture.  I don’t see the eight MDG’s listed up there instead of a cross.

[5] Posted by VaAnglican on 12-07-2007 at 03:24 PM • top

I suppose it’s too late to mention, now that it’s over 100%, that the “Chip In” is for the Lawrence consecration, not San Joaquin.

[Full Disclosure: I help Kevin with the “books”—so if you’ve made a “Chip In” donation today and intended it for San Joaquin, please email .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) with a note and the PayPal transaction id.]

[6] Posted by Andrew Barnett on 12-07-2007 at 03:31 PM • top

Nice worship, not so exciting, but peaceful. The celebrant has a very nice singing vioce.  Seems like and older crowd to me. Not much youth.

[7] Posted by plainsheretic on 12-07-2007 at 03:37 PM • top


You were expecting clowns and streamers and ‘liturgical dance’ maybe?  This is a peaceful service…God’s people, worshiping God.  Why worry about that which pleases God?

[8] Posted by Fr. Chip, SF on 12-07-2007 at 03:53 PM • top

Yes plainsheretic, far too boring. How can it possibly rate next to true Episcopalian worship without Tibetan Buddhist Monks? Sheesh

[9] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 12-07-2007 at 04:00 PM • top

Who’s that preaching? (I came in late.)

[10] Posted by Connie Sandlin on 12-07-2007 at 04:29 PM • top

I believe it’s Bishop Lyons of Bolivia

[11] Posted by The_Elves on 12-07-2007 at 04:31 PM • top

It is indeed!

[12] Posted by Gregory on 12-07-2007 at 04:36 PM • top

Every time I hear Bp Lyons speak it is simply wonderful.

[13] Posted by Mike L on 12-07-2007 at 04:38 PM • top


I was in no way critical. Nor did I say it was boring. I said it was not exciting, rather it was peacful.

“Nice Worship, not so exciting, but peaceful.”

The last part of my post was an overservation about the age of the crowd. It is older.

[14] Posted by plainsheretic on 12-07-2007 at 04:45 PM • top

I do so hope that the address by Bishop John-David will be transcribed and posted somewhere.  This is good stuff, good history, and good practice!
My connection will not deliver it in audio, much less with the video added.  It was working for a while with the display disabled, but not now.

[15] Posted by Fr. Chip, SF on 12-07-2007 at 05:36 PM • top

It was a rousing address, covering all the points that needed to be covered!

[16] Posted by yohanelejos on 12-07-2007 at 05:53 PM • top

It’s over.  A magnificent address.  As +Bob Duncan has said so often, “Courage breeds courage.”  BRAVO!  Bishop Schofield rocks!

The New Reformation is indeed underway.

David Handy+

[17] Posted by New Reformation Advocate on 12-07-2007 at 05:54 PM • top

Did they vote to move to the southern cone yet?

[18] Posted by plainsheretic on 12-07-2007 at 06:19 PM • top

No, plainsheretic, they haven’t but +Schofield’s address was a strong, and I believe regrettable, push in that direction.  He did not mention any of the negative effects a “yes” vote would have and solely the negative effects that a “no” would would have.  I fear he has not leveled with his people.

[19] Posted by EmilyH on 12-07-2007 at 07:05 PM • top


In your crystal ball, what are the negative effects of a “no”.  Litigation? Presentment?  All very christian and “known” to those of us in the diocese.  Are eyes are wide open.  I think it will be closer than last time, but still affirmative.  Some of the clergy are concerned about litigation and pensions/insurance.  I do not think enough of them are so concerned to change the outcome.

[20] Posted by usma87 on 12-07-2007 at 07:12 PM • top

Does anyone know when the text of +Schofield’s address might be posted?

[21] Posted by bob+ on 12-07-2007 at 07:13 PM • top

The members of the Diocese are taking their second vote. They have had a year to study what a “Yes” vote means.  To say that the Bishop has not leveled with them is to say people can’t read and study all the issues for themselves.  I think they all know what they are doing.
God bless them on both sides and prayers are given for them

[22] Posted by bob+ on 12-07-2007 at 07:17 PM • top

I’ve sorry the audio isn’t better. I know it’s not Kevins fault. The acoustics of the room are not good for this kind of meeting.

It’s hard to hear on my computer.

[23] Posted by bob+ on 12-07-2007 at 07:21 PM • top

Are they moving to another building tomorrow? If Bishop Duncan is there, is Bishop Iker there? Or Bishop Ackerman? Just curious.

[24] Posted by Houseownedbythedog3 on 12-07-2007 at 07:55 PM • top


What time should I show up with my pick axe and blue face?

[25] Posted by plainsheretic on 12-07-2007 at 09:00 PM • top

Oh Emily, must you fuss so?

[26] Posted by athan-asi-us on 12-07-2007 at 09:36 PM • top

so whats the deal? did they take a vote to leave or not?

[27] Posted by AngCatOne on 12-07-2007 at 09:41 PM • top

Angcatone:  The vote is tomorrow.
Anybody:  I tuned in late.  Who was the Priest to Bp. Schofield’s left and the Bishop to his right?

[28] Posted by athan-asi-us on 12-07-2007 at 09:53 PM • top

They should have name signs on the desk for the uninformed.

[29] Posted by athan-asi-us on 12-07-2007 at 09:55 PM • top

I think I just saw my priest and rector’s warden…from the back!  grin

[30] Posted by ElaineF. on 12-07-2007 at 10:01 PM • top

I believe the one his +Schofield’s right (left to me) was Bishop Lyons of Bolivia, and of course the one his is left was “Robert Duncan, OUR Moderator, of Dio of Pittsburgh..

I love +Lyons garb.. lol

Grannie Gloria

[31] Posted by Grandmother on 12-07-2007 at 10:19 PM • top

Thanks Grannie Gloria.  That’s what I thought but wanted to make sure.

[32] Posted by athan-asi-us on 12-07-2007 at 10:20 PM • top

I don’t worry about one person in that diocese not knowing the score.  Like Pittsburg and Ft. Worth - they are very informed as to what is going on.  Not like a true revisionist diocese, where nothing is said, pro or con because the cons know the pros have the clout.  Not a word from the pulpit, not a word at convention.  Just let the know nothings continue to know nothing in the tactic…...oh yes, and pour the U.N. program down their throats….

[33] Posted by Dee in Iowa on 12-07-2007 at 10:59 PM • top

I believe the diocesan votes don’t come until tomorrow (if anyone is still wondering about this). So, why is Bishop Duncan still talking at this point?

[34] Posted by yohanelejos on 12-07-2007 at 11:11 PM • top

Exactly Dee, I’m in a revisionist diocese too and nothing was said or discussed at our diocese’s convention.  In fact our rep said it was so short they were dismissed several hours early.  They ate dinner and watched and participated in some indian dances and went home, lol, like everything is just fine.  No one from my old church has a clue as to what is really going on.

[35] Posted by nochurchhome on 12-08-2007 at 01:01 AM • top

I was not where I could follow the live stream of the convention and was wondering if they used the collect and lessons for the commemoration of Ambrose, Bishop of Milan, at the eucharist today.  As I prayed for the convention and for Bishop Scholfield early this morning that collect seemed very appropriate.  And it seems an appropriate way to close this day.  May Bishop Schofield and all those gathered rest well this night in preparation for tomorrow.

O God, you gave your servant Ambrose grace eloquently to proclaim your righteousness in the great congregation, and fearlessly to bear reproach for the honor of your Name:  Mercifiully grant to all bishops and pastors such excellence in preaching and faithfulness in ministering your Word, that your people may be partakers with them of the glory that shall be revealed; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever.  Amen.
Lord, you empowered +Ambrose, to defended the faith against heresy and against the evils of the empire.  May +John-David and all those gathered at the convention tomorrow be granted your grace that they, too, may without fear of reproach faithfully carry out the work of your Church.

[36] Posted by lambswool on 12-08-2007 at 02:03 AM • top

Looks more disorganized than DioFW was. DSJ is also divided into deaneries and has lots of deanery meetings to debate and discuss so unless someone really wants to start something, it may be rather boring today, just the pros and cons presented and the vote. I am sure these issues have been thoroughly discussed prior to the convention at the deaneries. Not sure why some delegates seemed confused unless they are alternates that did not go to the deanery meetings and are last minute subs. That sometimes happens, which is why alternates should go to the meetings, but usually don’t. Also sometimes, there are alternates at the Friday meetings and the main delegates at the Saturday one, when they know the vote will be.

I did not hear the vote on the roll call vs the ballot. I am glad we had electronic ballotting, ie number two pencil type with scanner and double checked visually. It was faster and more accurate and less hassle.

[37] Posted by Houseownedbythedog3 on 12-08-2007 at 05:36 AM • top

From what I saw, it’s going to be ballot and not roll call—from later discussion, San Joaquin has never used roll call.

[38] Posted by yohanelejos on 12-08-2007 at 06:06 AM • top

Wow. What a late-night address by Bishop Duncan!
The money Quotes:

“There hasn’t been an Archbishop of Canterbury worth killing since 1692.”

“Are you worth killing?”

[39] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 12-08-2007 at 08:37 AM • top

Br-er Rabbit, do you have a link to this address?

[40] Posted by EmilyH on 12-08-2007 at 09:00 AM • top

USma87.  I have posted quite a bit on the Mugabe thread because I think what is happening in Redife, Bolivia, Manicaland, and Harare are as much relevant to San Joaquin as to what may happen there today so I refer to you that thread for crystal ball gazing.

I used to live off of Ben Holt when I worked for UOP.  It was still pretty much pasture but I loved the sunsets.  It was an hour 35 minutes int Oakland for church on Sunday.  I thought I’d die for sure in that wretched stretch Pleasanton, Dublin, Hayward. I think you are being mislec by your shepherd.  Mark Lawrence IS the confirmed bishop elect of SC no matter what +Schofield said last night about an orthodox bishop in TEC.  And, again check the other thread if you’re really interested in my naval gazing

[41] Posted by EmilyH on 12-08-2007 at 09:30 AM • top

Prayers for the diocese of San Joaquin are posted at Lent & Beyond.

[42] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 12-08-2007 at 09:57 AM • top

Sorry, EmilyH, no link. I watched it live last night on Anglican TV (same link as this thread) running up to 8:30 Pacific time. I’m not even sure that “1692” is the exact date he used. But I was surely impressed with his point.

The priest I work with, Fr. James Giles, puts it another way:

If you were being accused in a court of law with being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict you?

...still in the Briar Patch,

[43] Posted by Br_er Rabbit on 12-08-2007 at 03:51 PM • top

lambswool, and others up toward the top of the thread,
As the MC for the Eucharists at convention it was my job to develop the themes for the services into the liturgy.  The bishop chose “The Mission of the Church II” propers for the Opening Eucharist (and wanted Ps 139, one of his personal favorites to replace the appointed psalm from the propers).  He allowed me to weave throughout the service aspects of an Ambrose theme, including adding the Collect for Ambrose immediately following the Collect for the Mission of the Church.  The bishop has been suffering from a bronchial infection, so I filled in as cantor everywhere except the Sursum Corda which he did.  The service music included all the Ambrosian selections from the “S” section of the Hymnal (including the Our Father); the Gloria was the Healy Willan rendition; we did the Schubert/Proulx Sanctus and Fraction Anthem.  The bishop wanted a big sound for the opening and closing hymns, so he picked 525 (The Church’s One Foundation), and I picked “O Zion,haste” as the “mission” hymn (the recessional).  The organist, Royce Nickel, picked out one of the hymns by Ambrose, 234 (The Eternal Gifts).  The combined choir was under the direction of Art Huff, assisted by Cathy Reibe who rehearsed the “southern” choir separately.  They presented Sitton (offertory), Tallis and Gretchaninov (communion) pieces, with brass.  The brass also played a fanfare prior to the opening hymn, and played for about 10 minutes following the mission hymn. 
At communion the congregation also sang “Humbly I adore thee”, and a song that I learned when on a companion diocese trip to the Oaxaca area of Mexico about 20 years ago, “Bendito, Bendito”, which was done to further provide for the involvement of a number of Latinos in their own communion reflection.  I had one of our Latina deacons do a raw translation of four of the verses, which I then arranged more prosaically to be sung as companion verses to the spanish ones.  This was the last of the songs for communion, and with the administration of communion well in hand (thanks to Bp Lyons who agreed on the spot to fill in for an absent paten-bearer,  I picked up my guitar and led the song.  I can send copies of it if you want. 
The psalm was done in such a way as to provide a connection flow through the lessons:  one half after the OT lesson, and one half following the epistle instead of a hymn.  We did it alternating between choir and congregation, as per Ambrose, and used Anglican chant as a reminder of our own heritage.  I took the old praise song, “Spirit of the Living God”, and arranged it as a two-part chant, and then pointed the psalm to fit.
It was pretty much a straight-ahead Holy Eucharist Rite II liturgy.
The Deacon of the Word was Deacon Madeline Burton; she read the Gospel, and led the Prayers of the People (Form V), and the Confession.  The Deacon of the Mass was Deacon Buck Jones.  The lectors were Pam Stout, wife of one of the vicars, and a primary in the organization and oversight of the large intercessory body at convention (which is why she was asked to be a lector); and Mr. Danilo Grajales, a postulant for Holy Orders, representing the diocese’s growing ministry to Latinos (he introduced and read Ephesians 3:1-12 first in English, then read it and closed in Spanish.)  Interestingly, the Ephesians lesson turned out (after a little research) to also be one of the lessons appointed for the feast of St. Ambrose from the cathedral in Milan.  So, there was at least one lesson read appropriate for the feast day.  The administrators of communion were 4 of the 6 Rural Deans, plus Bp Lyons as I mentioned, Fr. Ken Richards the diocesan Canon Pastor, and then Dean Carlos Raines of the Cathedral and Deacon Laurel Greene who provided communion to the choir in the loft.
Despite what looks like an eclectic approach, which is my style, it was fully intended and developed to be what the commenters above described as they experienced themselves, a peaceful and profound worship event, with impact.  I’m hoping Kevin will eventually post his recording of the service in his archives.  It is also my intention to post the service booklet which will have many of the above notes.  It will be posted to the Surrounded weblog, which is now at .
Thanks for the comments above.

[44] Posted by Rob Eaton+ on 12-10-2007 at 05:02 AM • top

Registered members are welcome to leave comments. Log in here, or register here.

Comment Policy: We pride ourselves on having some of the most open, honest debate anywhere about the crisis in our church. However, we do have a few rules that we enforce strictly. They are: No over-the-top profanity, no racial or ethnic slurs, and no threats real or implied of physical violence. Please see this post for more. Although we rarely do so, we reserve the right to remove or edit comments, as well as suspend users' accounts, solely at the discretion of site administrators. Since we try to err on the side of open debate, you may sometimes see comments that you believe strain the boundaries of our rules. Comments are the opinions of visitors, and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of Stand Firm, its board of directors, or its site administrators.