Welcome to Stand Firm!

Report from the Field: A Layperson in the Diocese of Los Angeles Writes Her Rector about Pledging

Monday, February 11, 2008 • 6:00 am


I keep hearing that “all the traditional Episcopalians have left [insert diocese or parish here].”

Or . . . “no traditional priest will ever be selected again in [insert diocese or parish here].” 

And yet, constantly, week in and week out, my email box receives news that says otherwise.  In this email, an internal medicine physician and an Episcopal layperson, Dr. Alice Dick, lets her rector know why she is not pledging.  Alice’s personal blog is FeetFirst, and the blog was featured in a 2004 article about physician blogging; she has been blogging since 2002.

Are there other Episcopalians who are writing their rectors about stewardship issues?  If so, I’d love to see those letters!

Well, I’ll give you a list – in no particular order – of some of the issues which are concerning me. I hope this helps.

I don’t want my money funding lawsuits (currently being filed by the dozen, or so it seems, by both the diocese and the national church).

I have a serious problem with communion being offered to the unbaptized.

It greatly alarms me to see the Presiding Bishop – in a public interview with NPR from last year – so reluctant to state that Jesus Christ is “the way, the truth, and the life.” She indicated He was a way, but not *the* way. Now, anyone as an individual can have their own opinions on this matter, but when the person is being interviewed as the national head of a Christian denomination I find that simply unbelievable.

I have an even bigger problem with her recent deposition in the Virginia lawsuit where she came out and admitted that she had refused to sell the Episcopal buildings to the departing congregations specifically because they were dissenters, and that if they had been any other denomination, or if the
buildings were to be sold for secular purposes, she would not have a problem with it. That is discrimination and it is illegal. It also gives me a very poor view of the Presiding Bishop.

The TEC administration has been so busy with lawsuits, Millennium Development Goals and other time-consuming and useless activities that it overlooked the fact that an ordained priest was a practicing druid (see here: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_24_121/ai_n8702459) and allowed his wife to publish a pagan rite masquerading as a feminine liturgy on the national Episcopal Church website. They just aren’t paying attention, or perhaps it would be more accurate to say that they are so infatuated with political correctness and “inclusivity” (a term I loathe) that they will accept anything that meets those standards without any interest in whether or not it is Christian.

More generally, I just have become more and more disenchanted with the “improvements” in the TEC liturgy and teachings. I have tried some of the Rite One services, but that doesn’t seem to be enough: the updated liturgy is meaningless. There is no consideration of individual sin, individual responsibility or individual relationship with God. It’s all society – what society has done, isn’t doing or should do. Obviously, the church needs to cover both aspects. But TEC has become a school for social work instead of a church, and there seems to be very little that’s spiritual about it these days.

Last, but certainly not least, I am furious with TEC’s failure to enforce the Windsor Report, Dar Es Salaam and other agreements within dioceses and with individual priests. Let me be clear: what I object to here is their attempt to have things both ways. I would respect TEC if they had refused to sign, actually. If this church truly had the courage of its convictions, the primates would have said: “We’re sorry, but we can’t sign this. We understand that this means we will no longer be part of the Anglican Communion. We understand some of our parishes and dioceses may wish to leave over this issue. We hope that some day you will join us, but for now we accept your decision.” Instead, they have been doing a bait-and-switch for years: signing agreements with no intention of keeping their word. This is not only setting a terrible example for all Episcopalians, it’s spiritually bankrupt.

I’m sorry to say this, but it’s true: I no longer respect or trust the TEC administrative leadership. I do not support them and I will not fund them.

 


40 Comments • Print-friendlyPrint-friendly w/commentsShare on Facebook
Comments:

What a wonderful letter. The good doctor neatly sums up the wrongheadedness of the modern Episcopal church!

I get woolly here

[1] Posted by Matthew A (formerly mousestalker) on 02-11-2008 at 06:19 AM • top

Bravo! Now that’s standing firm in one’s convictions.

[2] Posted by Fisherman on 02-11-2008 at 07:17 AM • top

Los Angeles?  God bless her.

[3] Posted by Jill Woodliff on 02-11-2008 at 07:26 AM • top

I agree with her decision and its courageousness. However, could such action, according to the bylaws of many congregations, prevent voting in parish elections for vestry?

[4] Posted by Bill Cool on 02-11-2008 at 07:44 AM • top

Bravo!!! If only the HOB had as much guts!
  #4 You are correct Bill.

[5] Posted by Gordy on 02-11-2008 at 08:26 AM • top

[comment deleted—off topic]

[6] Posted by hookemhooker on 02-11-2008 at 08:48 AM • top

Is this the whole letter? If not, where is the rest of it?

[7] Posted by Chazzy on 02-11-2008 at 08:50 AM • top

Hookemhooker, I’ve deleted your comment.  Please cease introducing off-topic comments into threads.

This is your final warning, as this has often happened before.

Thanks.

[8] Posted by Sarah on 02-11-2008 at 09:07 AM • top

If she doesn’t like Rite I, then she is probably a “1928 Prayer Book person.”  The issues we struggle with, viz., our theology, go back to Prayer Book revision, so I am not surprised. This is “all of a thread.

[9] Posted by from South Florida on 02-11-2008 at 09:17 AM • top

Sarah, if you can provide a link to the complete letter, I would like to post it on MySpace and Usenet.

[10] Posted by Chazzy on 02-11-2008 at 09:30 AM • top

Hi Chazzy—to my knowledge it’s not posted anywhere else.

I asked her for it, when she mentioned sending it at another blog, and that is what she sent me via email.

[11] Posted by Sarah on 02-11-2008 at 09:41 AM • top

I did and was immediately removed from the Vestry candidate list. I have since left TEc and am now under Uganda.  I no longer have to worry about where my money is going.  What freedom to trust the church in which you worship.  Thanks be to God!

[12] Posted by wportbello on 02-11-2008 at 09:52 AM • top

Daer Sarah, My apology. I really was asking a question for clarification.
Please tell me what you mean in your two initial sentences by “traditional” otherwise, the premis not being clearly stated, no logical person can reply.

[13] Posted by hookemhooker on 02-11-2008 at 09:55 AM • top

Thanks Sarah—I’ve posted it on Usenet and in Two MySpace groups. Incidentally, we could really use more orthodox folks in the group “Episcopalians” on MySpace, as there are only two orthodox people who post with any regularity. Consider this a plea for help.
link

[14] Posted by Chazzy on 02-11-2008 at 09:58 AM • top

RE: “Please tell me what you mean in your two initial sentences by “traditional” otherwise, the premis not being clearly stated, no logical person can reply.”

Heh.

That’s okay, Hookem . . . I’m fine with someone not replying.  ; > )

[15] Posted by Sarah on 02-11-2008 at 10:32 AM • top

If she doesn’t like Rite I, then she is probably a “1928 Prayer Book person.”

I can understand the disatisfaction with the 1979 book as a whole, particularly the changes to the cathechism, baptism, marriage service, etc, but I’m not sure what the beef might be with the Rite I Eucharist service.  Other than the poorly stated Blessed Be…, I don’t find much objectional.  The wording of most of it isn’t even that different than the 1928 BCP, granted with an extra lesson, the Gloria moved to its original location, and the Benidictus and Agnus Dei restored. 

Anyway, while poor liturgy is a problem, I’m much more concerned about what is being said in the pulpit or taught in the classrooms.  After all, Pike presumably used the 1928 BCP, but he undermined it at every point with his actual teachings.

[16] Posted by AndrewA on 02-11-2008 at 10:57 AM • top

Everything else aside, I have never understood how one “enforces” a “report.” Perhaps one of the learned amonst you might clarify.

[17] Posted by Susan Russell on 02-11-2008 at 12:13 PM • top

Susan, one could “enforce” this particular “report” by not “inviting” Gene Robinson and his “consecrators.”  Is that enough “clarity?”

[18] Posted by Phil on 02-11-2008 at 12:20 PM • top

Hey Phil, she doesn’t want “clarity”—she just wants to do a drive-by as she does so often with T19.

Won’t be allowed here.

[19] Posted by Sarah on 02-11-2008 at 12:24 PM • top

Props to Dr. Alice Dick for her courage in speaking out and using her checkbook as a communication device.
I’m sure that the Rev Ms Russell and Bishop Bruno will be by to ask how to ‘enforce’ Windsor’s ‘recommendations’.

[20] Posted by paddy on 02-11-2008 at 01:09 PM • top

Whoa!..Did I just see Rev. Russell scoot by here or is this the dream sequence of Stand Firm?
Shalom,
Intercessor

[21] Posted by Intercessor on 02-11-2008 at 01:10 PM • top

More seriously…I can’t help but wonder how many Episcopalians in LA Dio mirror the same feelings of abandonment. We hear daily through the Pravda of 815 details of the abandoned Remain Episcopal remnent here in San Joaquin Dio but rarely have I seen this kind of testimony for the disinfranchised conservatives from LADio unless of course Bruno is suing them.
Intercessor

[22] Posted by Intercessor on 02-11-2008 at 01:19 PM • top

AH! A Susan Russell drive by! Clarity she asks? Well she wouldn’t even recognise clarity since clarity has everything to do truth….Here is how Susan Russell and KJS deal with truth being told to them.

Enjoy!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=32C0eKRQVt8&feature=related

[23] Posted by TLDillon on 02-11-2008 at 01:24 PM • top

ODC, I did enjoy. Thanks!

[24] Posted by robroy on 02-11-2008 at 01:27 PM • top

Hat tip to ODC…great scoop!
Shalom,
Intercessor

[25] Posted by Intercessor on 02-11-2008 at 01:30 PM • top

You know Greg, Sarah, Matt, and Jackie I have to commend you all for allowing Susan Russell’s posts to be posted here. Truly the same would not be so on her site if one of us or you were to do a “drive by” on her site. Fairness and inclusivity! Yeah right! Those come with strings attached in that camp! smile I truly feel the same as this wpman who wrote this letter to her rector and Iam sure she feels some better for writing it. But the real question is….Will it get read and understood to makea difference? Who’s to say? Only God knows but, I think that her giving of her money, time and talents would be better served where they are truly going to help and be used for the expansion of God’s Kingdom doing God’s work not MDG’s work! Just my humble opinion. I will keep her in my prayers.

[26] Posted by TLDillon on 02-11-2008 at 01:59 PM • top

Thanks for the link, Sarah. I appreciate everybody’s comments.

Just to clarify, I don’t have a problem with Rite I as it currently stands and I don’t think I’ve ever attended a 1928 service. All I meant by my reference to it was that though I feel better when I attend a Rite I service it isn’t enough to remove the other qualms I mentioned. As to the question of whether not pledging would render me unable to vote/elect vestry members, I believe the question is yes but I removed myself from voting - I didn’t bother to ask.

[27] Posted by Dr Alice on 02-11-2008 at 02:58 PM • top

As to the question of whether not pledging would render me unable to vote/elect vestry members, I believe the question is yes but I removed myself from voting - I didn’t bother to ask.

Perfect answer…your heart has moved on…well said.
Intercessor

[28] Posted by Intercessor on 02-11-2008 at 03:19 PM • top

Dr Alice (#27), feeling as you do about TEC’s apostacies, why do you stay? If your heart has already moved on, shouldn’t you be following it toward safety? (Please understand, this is curiosity not confrontation… I left years ago for the same reasons you give.)

In faith, Dave
Viva Texas

[29] Posted by dpeirce on 02-11-2008 at 04:16 PM • top

I’m in the process of looking for another church, though it was a difficult decision - this letter really was part of a last ditch effort to see if I could restrict my giving to my parish alone without any of it going to the diocese or national organization. (The answer was no.)  I still attend my current church about once a month, mainly to help out with Altar Guild as we’re short staffed at the moment and the head of the Guild is way too busy as it is.

[30] Posted by Dr Alice on 02-11-2008 at 05:54 PM • top

OK, “been there” too. I was Episcopal 51 years and it was very hard to make a clean break. In my case, my “pastor” spent a great deal of time trying to convince me that TEC’s new direction was Biblical and that the old Biblical ways were UNbiblical. He had my friends stay in touch. He didn’t bug me about not contributing. He seemed like he really valued my continued presence in TEC. He spent 2-3 hours a day on me for 6 months… he worked HARD and pulled every string to keep me in there.

“Luckily”, I found out what they were teacing my grandkids in sunday school. No hesitations after that!

Sympathies, and I hope things work out well for you.

In faith, Dave
Viva Texas

[31] Posted by dpeirce on 02-11-2008 at 06:12 PM • top

I’m in LA and stopped pledging years ago. It made me laugh to read “tithe” and Bible in the pitch. I didn’t know we still had the Levitical priesthood and as for Biblical authority…
I don’t get excited anymore. Just hanging on.
I pay enough for the lightbill and whatever I calculate the cost of admission for the one or two communions a month I attend as I am out of town alot.
Anglican, Episcopal, etc. doesn’t mean much to me anymore.

[32] Posted by LA Anglican on 02-11-2008 at 07:24 PM • top

“Luckily”, I found out what they were teacing my grandkids in sunday school. No hesitations after that!

I’d be interested if you could expand on that, or if anyone wanted to make some comments about what is in the official material coming out of TEC these days.  It would be interesting to see an article on what TEC is teaching kids these days.

[33] Posted by AndrewA on 02-12-2008 at 07:05 AM • top

If the good doctor still wishes to remain in her parish but not have her money go to TEC, I have a possible suggestion for her.  We were in a diocese with an “institutional” bishop for a number of years before escaping to Pittsburgh and the parish sent money to the diocese which then sent money to the national church.  Even though the rector and treasurer seriously objected, we solved this dilemma by contributing to a special fund (in our case a Building Fund).  In our case the requirement for voting in vestry elections only specified that one must be “known to the treasurer,” so we qualified.  Obviously this will not work if the by-laws state that one must pledge in order to be eligble to vote.

[34] Posted by Ann Castro on 02-12-2008 at 07:44 AM • top

#30.  Dr Alice,
One of the prices TEC and all those who remain with it will have to pay is being short staffed.  I don’t mean to be hard hearted, but when the time comes to make a solid break, I do want you to remind yourself that they are just going to have to deal with those consequences.  It is not your load to bear and it may just be a wake-up call, even if only to the head of the altar guild. 
Blessings on your discernment journey.

[35] Posted by Free Range Anglican on 02-12-2008 at 07:57 AM • top

#33, AndrewA: My grandson asked me why I was so upset with the Episcopal Church (I hadn’t yet left, but this happened at the tail end of 6 months of my pastor’s email campaign to convince me TEC was correct). I explained that the Episcopal Church was ordaining people who were doing things against scripture, and even blessing those people at God’s own altar. He asked who I meant, and I said homosexuals. He wanted to know what was wrong with homosexuality. I said that, although God loves homosexuals themselves, he condemns homosexuality in the Bible and therefore it’s a sin.

My grandson responded very positively, “Then the Bible is WRONG! It isn’t a sin”.

I asked where he learned that. He said at school (of course!) and at Sunday School. I asked what they taught him in Sunday School and he said they taught him that the parts of the Bible which said homosexuality is sinful were written by people who didn’t know what they were talking about, and they were wrong, and someday we would correct all the errors in the Bible and we would have a new Bible.

That’s a condensation of a conversation that took a couple of weeks to complete. I’m just glad he trusted me enough to defend what he had been taught so I could find out what it was. I wasn’t able to convince him, though, that the Bible is right.

In faith, Dave
Viva Texas

[36] Posted by dpeirce on 02-12-2008 at 09:59 PM • top

Sorry… I probably sounded a little bitter there. Guess I was, in fact.

In faith, Dave
Viva Texas

[37] Posted by dpeirce on 02-14-2008 at 03:17 PM • top

Or maybe you can give your pledge to another denomination with whom you Can agree, at least until you decide where you are going to go?  As long as the money can’t be used by KJS and 815 to sue other Christians who still think that Jesus IS THE way, not A way..

[38] Posted by Doogal1234 on 02-16-2008 at 11:14 AM • top

For Intercessor in #22: I live in the diocese of LA, although I am canonically resident in San Joaquin. I was recently approached by a couple, whose families have been active members of LA for generations,  for information about how to contact Bp Schofield about sanctioning a house church under Bp Schofield’s direction, in the northern part of the LA diocese. They sent their request to Bp Schofield a week ago, and to date have not received a reply. Obviously, there is serious disaffection in LA. I hear cries of anguish constantly.
desertpadre

[39] Posted by desertpadre on 02-18-2008 at 08:47 PM • top

Desertpadre, I will contact you by email off line.
Intercessor

[40] Posted by Intercessor on 02-18-2008 at 08:59 PM • top

Registered members are welcome to leave comments. Log in here, or register here.


Comment Policy: We pride ourselves on having some of the most open, honest debate anywhere about the crisis in our church. However, we do have a few rules that we enforce strictly. They are: No over-the-top profanity, no racial or ethnic slurs, and no threats real or implied of physical violence. Please see this post for more. Although we rarely do so, we reserve the right to remove or edit comments, as well as suspend users' accounts, solely at the discretion of site administrators. Since we try to err on the side of open debate, you may sometimes see comments that you believe strain the boundaries of our rules. Comments are the opinions of visitors, and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of Stand Firm, its board of directors, or its site administrators.