Thursday, September 2, 2010

Welcome to Stand Firm!

Want to advertise on Stand Firm? Click here for rates and info

Big Trouble for Revisionist Provinces

Friday, May 19, 2006 • 1:27 am


If you have not read this report from the London Telegraph, you may want to do so now. It possibly reveals some very big news: the division of Anglicanism into two theologically defined branches. Already there seems to be somewhat of a knee-jerk "we're doomed" reaction arising from some of my fellow orthodox commenters based, it seems, on the language the reporter has employed rather than the plan itself. My reaction is quite the opposite.

This looks like the early stages of a plan for a form of reduced status for committed revisionist provinces. Here is my edited/amended/enhanced response to the article I initially posted on T19. Of course, I'll have more to say about this later in the day (it's 4:30am) but this will have to suffice for now:

We need to be careful as we read this article.

My guess is “fast track” and “slow track” seem to be the author's characterizations of the plan, not the ABC’s actual words.

This plan could simply be the reporters way of suggesting that some form of discipline is at hand.

If indeed this section is true and accurate:

But they could also allow conservatives from Africa and Asia to form an influential inner core that would edge out the liberals from positions of power and reduce them to a second-class status.

then "reduced status" may be precisely what we are looking at in this plan.

If so, this is not more "fuzzy thinking" from the ABC. This is possibly the beginning of the end for revisionists in the Communion. Read the article again and filter out the reporter’s own characterizations and I think you find the orthodox wing remaining primary and fully tied to Canterbury and the revisionist wing standing in some form of a reduced status.

Brad Drell asks, "What does this mean for us?"

Good Question. Here is a brief and purely speculative answer: For North American Anglicans it means parallel provinces.

But, if these revelations are accurate (and the "if" cannot be emphasized enough) one province (the orthodox one) would retain full Communion status and one (the revisionist province) would be reduced.

And yet, another crucial question to ask is whether or not this plan envisions ECUSA's compliance with Windsor or her non-compliance? There is no reason to assume that this future blueprint even includes a recalcitrant, non-compliant ECUSA.

The specific question of ECUSA's Windsor compliance is not addressed.

My speculative answer assumes that ECUSA complies and is eligible for inclusion in any future Communion plan.

Well that's my initial take this morning. The short version follows:

Rapid Response: If this news is not just some trial balloon, then it is both big news and good news for the orthodox. It means reduced Communion status for revisionist provinces and primary status for the orthodox. It means the beginning of the end of the fifty year revisionist challenge to Anglican orthodoxy.

Update: The Living Church has posted an article that clarifies the matter quite a bit. The "two track" covenant process is a long-term plan quite distinct from the question of "Windsor" compliance. The "crucial" question I posed above has been answered. The covenant plan has nothing to do with whether or not ECUSA is disciplined. And yet, I still think that if ECUSA somehow makes it through the next few years as an Anglican body, any requirement to sign onto a "covenant" will require the establishment of two distinct Anglican provinces in North America: a province that signs the covenant and a province that does not. I imagine the same split will take place in other provinces as well. We are still looking at the beginning of the marginalization of the reappraising party. Thanks be to God.

12 Comments • Print-friendlyPrint-friendly w/commentsShare on Facebook
Comments:

I’m with you on this, Matt.  After reading it again and putting a filter on what the author said about two tracks, I believe you have hit the nail on the head!

If this is true, all praise be to God!

[1] Posted by Milton Finch on 05-19-2006 at 02:43 AM • top

One of the things that troubles me is that so many on your blog are concerned about the letter of the law without the spirit of Jesus which is Love.  Why do you focus on this sin more than say, killing in war or ignoring the hunger of the poor.  Why have you chosen to make this particular sin so much a focus of your energy.  I think it has more to do with right wing politics than Jesus’ teachings.  I am a non-gay Episcopalian, by the way.

[2] Posted by tearsfromastar on 05-19-2006 at 04:11 AM • top

Why do you focus on this sin more than say, killing in war or ignoring the hunger of the poor.

Tears,

With all due respect, you’re making assumptions about people here that are incorrect: That we focus on the sin of homosexual behavior to the exclusion of everything else, or that no one here works for peace or to alleviate hunger. Nothing could be further from the truth, as the missions in which many here are involved will attest.

As to why this issue is so important, we have always maintained that homosexuality is ony the presenting symptom, not the underlying disorder. For a more complete explanation of what I mean, please take the time to listen to Kendall Harmon’s audio presentation here.

Finally, when it comes to taking a stand against sin, it has never been acceptable for Christians to ignore one of them just because they can’t address all of them.

[3] Posted by Greg Griffith on 05-19-2006 at 05:49 AM • top

Re: “Why do you focus on this sin more than say, killing in war or ignoring the hunger of the poor.”

Mr. Tears.  As far as I can tell, we have not elected a bishop who declares that he likes killing in wars, nor have we elected a bishop who declares that he likes the poor to be hungry.

But we *have* elected a bishop who actually engages in homosexual behavior—and we have declared it a blessed and godly example to others.

The moment we elect a bishop who is, say, a proud proponent of burning crosses in yards, you will see Stand Firm posting articles about the sin of racism.

But so far . . . .

[4] Posted by Sarah on 05-19-2006 at 05:57 AM • top

Matt,

As always, the devil will be in the details: How easy, exactly, will it be for parishes at odds with their bishop to join this new province? Or for that matter, for dioceses at odds with ECUSA to join it? What becomes of the nagging property question?

If the “fast track” is indeed marginalized in terms of power and influence, then I agree - it spells the beginning of the end for revisionist provinces.

But let’s all remember that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is, and a plan that at once keeps the communion “together,” marginalizes the revisionists, and eventually leads to their dying on the vine or leaving of their own accord, falls squarely into that category.

[5] Posted by Greg Griffith on 05-19-2006 at 06:10 AM • top

Greg,

you are definitely right about the need to hold off on celebrations or resignations. Early reports often get key details wrong. I remember the initial word from Dromantine was that “expulsion” was forthcoming. Dromantine was good, but not that good.

My comments are based on what the article reports and with the assumption that the facts are essentially true.

But like you said, we can’t bet on anything at this point.

[6] Posted by Matt Kennedy on 05-19-2006 at 06:15 AM • top

How long will it take to develop an Anglican Covenant?  It’s taken a year to get the Panel of Reference off their duffs, and they still haven’t done anything.  And how long will it take ECUSA to study the Covenant and allow their legislative process to work?
At the earliest we’re looking at three years.  But I think the liberal elements of the communion will do their best to thwart the process of developing the Covenant, so maybe we’re looking at six.

[7] Posted by Ralinda on 05-19-2006 at 07:49 AM • top

Matt—I think you are on “track.” This is worth looking at. But we need to see a sketch from the ABC fast. It might put big pressure on GC.

Ralinda—Something can be put forward as a seed of a Covenant, embodying the two-track/two-train image.

I just hope the imagery applies within each Province.

More at
http://anthill.wordpress.com/2006/05/19/two-track-anglican-communion/

[8] Posted by anthill on 05-19-2006 at 08:56 AM • top

I agree with both Greg and Matt….we will have to see what is to come.  This is a walk of Faith.  God will show us His way.

[9] Posted by Creighton+ on 05-19-2006 at 09:26 AM • top

It is hard for me to see how this is positive. ECUSA is going to be found by the AOC as Windsor Compliant, although it will have only slowed its progress toward the revisionist cause. ECUSA will be invited to Windsor. In fact, this document apparently envisions something that is hashed out at Windsor, 2008.

There will be fewer orthodox that care about this debate in 2008 because more will have moved on.  Dragging this out, with nothing but a vague possibility of a firm resolution, is a revisionist victory.

[10] Posted by Going Home on 05-19-2006 at 11:34 AM • top

LOL!  Tearsfromastar, no one is arguing that what the Bible plainly says about killing in war or the hunger of the poor is mistaken, outdated, or misinterpreted.  And no one is trying working to split the Body of Christ over those scriptural commands!

Sodomy on the other hand…

[11] Posted by Marty the Baptist on 05-19-2006 at 01:02 PM • top

Two trains, two tracks?  Looks like one track with two trains going in opposite directions all along.

[12] Posted by PROPHET MICAIAH on 05-21-2006 at 08:03 AM • top

Registered members are welcome to leave comments. Log in here, or register here.


Comment Policy: We pride ourselves on having some of the most open, honest debate anywhere about the crisis in our church. However, we do have a few rules that we enforce strictly. They are: No over-the-top profanity, no racial or ethnic slurs, and no threats real or implied of physical violence. Please see this post for more. Although we rarely do so, we reserve the right to remove or edit comments, as well as suspend users' accounts, solely at the discretion of site administrators. Since we try to err on the side of open debate, you may sometimes see comments that you believe strain the boundaries of our rules. Comments are the opinions of visitors, and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of Stand Firm, its board of directors, or its site administrators.