Gays Must Change, Says Archbishop Rowan Williams

One thought provoking paper by a theology professor never in and of itself reveals a world view change. While at both United in Dayton OH and Seabury Western I heard and read one time materials from professors designed to stimulate our thinking that were radical departures from their world views and we came to understand early on this teaching technique. They sometimes evoked anger, other times curiosity, occasionally confusion, and this was from such as the Rev. Dr’s. Davies, Borsh, [my class sponsors,] Moreau and Elman.

I quickly came to understand that such exercises were not for their benefit but mine. Thank God this old paper can been placed permanently in the bin of such exercises. This Telegraph story is more like the priest that married a girl from +Kelshaw’s youthgroup.

It is hard to know how to take this…

It is one reporter writing off the notes of another reporter and including some local reaction.  No ‘new’ thing has happened…just a churning over the facts of the Dutch interview.

So, is it news?  It is interesting to note that the Telegraph story is trying to get gay-friendly people to bash the ABC…they are eager to comply.

But I am left with the feeling about Rowan that I have had from the start:  brilliant, deep, kind, unity-minded, and clueless about how to lead through a world-wide crisis.  He seems to be able to comprehend nearly every aspect of the crisis except one: the incredible power of the moral weight of his office.

An overly Bold headline but an interesting analysis. It does point out the harm that can be caused by one Highly placed “Christian” stating a Non Biblical view of things.I counted Six Heretical works by Spong in the Christian section of Barnes and Noble the other night.

Williams is now criticising his own early professorial musings, which he “almost” says caused many to falsely believe he is a gay activist. Pray that Rowan Williams will truly depart from Intellectual Musings and fully and unahamedly embrace the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The “incredible power” that is needed here is the Wonderworking Power of the Blood of Jesus Christ. Pray that Williams will indeed become a chosen “Disciple” and that he will be empowered by the Holy Spirit to fully embrace the Great Commission and lead many to repentence and everlasting life in Jesus Christ, the Way , the Truth , and the Life, and the Only Way to the Father.

Sorry, but parts of this article are alarmist bunk.  Check this out:

The archbishop of Canterbury has told homosexuals that they need to change their behaviour if they are to be welcomed into the church, The Sunday Telegraph can reveal.

1) the Telegraph makes it sound like they’ve got some kind of secret exclusive scoop on Abp. Rowan’s beliefs. 

2) This is NOT what ++Rowan said exactly.  Yes he talked alot about the need for transformation for all of us, but he was also explicit in proclaiming the church’s welcome of ALL Sinners.  So ++Rowan has NOT said that practicing homosexuals are not welcome in the church unless they change.  The welcome remains unconditional.  But Jesus does call All of us to be transformed. 

There is lot of analysis here but very little based on what ++Rowan actually SAID.  Very poor article in that respect, though on another level, very interesting to see how many of the gay lobby groups are reading and responding to what he said.

Karen B. got it right.  I wonder what he actually said.

MasterServer, here is what the ABC actually said (and I personally thought this article interpreted it well):

Interviewer: “How far can unity be stretched within the boundaries of still being based on the Bible?”

Dutch reporter: “In reply to this question Williams starts off with a rebuke of those who argue it is high time the Church accepted gay relationships. Their ideal is the inclusive church.”

RW: “I don’t believe inclusion is a value in itself,” says the Archbishop. “Welcome is. We welcome people into the Church, we say: ‘You can come in, and that decision will change you.’ We don’t say: ‘Come in and we ask no questions.’ I do believe conversion means conversion of habits, behaviours, ideas, emotions. The boundaries are determined by what it means to be loyal to Jesus Christ. That means to display in all things the mind of Christ. Paul is always saying this in his letters: Ethics is not a matter of a set of abstract rules, it is a matter of living the mind of Christ. That applies to sexual ethics; that is why fidelity is important in marriage. You reflect the loyalty of God in Christ. . . . By no means everything is negotiable for me. I would not be happy if someone said: Let us discuss the divinity of Christ. That to me seems so constituent of what the Church is.”

Interviewer: Critics of the American Church’s gay policies say they have reached the boundaries.

RW: “In terms of decision-making the American Church has pushed the boundaries. It has made a decision that is not the decision of the wider body of Christ.” I

England, as a whole, is not favorable to our cause regarding Scriptural interpretation and application, although we have friends within the evangelical wing.  Most public leaders, including the PM, do not want to be seen as supporting our view regarding ordination and consecration.  This headline and article reflects a new front in the fight, an effort to embarrass the AOC and push him to the left by generating public pressure in England. Pressure will now be on the AOC to make a statement repudiating the headline.

Underlining KarenB’s comment, we once again find a gay clergyman—the Rev. Mr. Goddard—repeating one of the several popular Big Lies of the GLBTQXYZ activists:  That “welcoming” precludes judging behavior.

But again, aside from the discussion of his earlier views, this piece (and the interview) reveals reveals nothing about +++Rowan’s current views that were not made quite clear—in a British-public-speaking sort of way—in his post-GC Reflection (at http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/sermons_speeches/060627 Archbishop - challenge and hope reflection.htm”)—

... the debate in the Anglican Communion is not essentially a debate about the human rights of homosexual people. It is possible – indeed, it is imperative – to give the strongest support to the defence of homosexual people against violence, bigotry and legal disadvantage, to appreciate the role played in the life of the church by people of homosexual orientation, and still to believe that this doesn’t settle the question of whether the Christian Church has the freedom, on the basis of the Bible, and its historic teachings, to bless homosexual partnerships as a clear expression of God’s will. That is disputed among Christians, and, as a bare matter of fact, only a small minority would answer yes to the question.

This is a less concrete and personal statement of belief, of course, but given +++Rowan’s repeated emphasis on the necessity for unity and consensus in the Communion, and his equally emphatic rejection of the notion that he can take unilateral action in a Communion context—he absolutely refuses to act “Papal” in any way—this extract indicates with near-complete certainty which way he will move if forced to make a choice.

It unfortunately seems clear that some of his own CofE clergy are determined to force him to that choice, and of course they will be astonished and outraged when he makes it…

Statement from a member of Parliament:

“The Church of England wouldn’t survive without gay clergy in inner cities.

My feeling is that the Church of England may be dying, but not because of lack of gay clergy in inner cities. What is needed is a general housecleaning and a renewal. 

Of course, if the MP;s statement is actually the case, then I would suggest that the Church of England be allowed to die quietly, as it will no longer be able to claim to be a Christian denomination.

Of course, since the MP is an avoved homosexual, one should consider the source when evaluating the veracity of such an assertion.

The statements from the Archbishop of Canterbury are very encouraging!

Thanks for the research and postings.