Be loving in everything you do." - I Corinthians 16:13-14
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"Be on your guard. Stand firm in the faith. Be brave. Be strong. Be loving in everything you do." - I Corinthians 16:13-14 |
Doug LeBlanc on the "extinct parish" of All Saints in Rochester:
One day before, on Nov. 19, the diocese's annual convention agreed to a
proposal from the diocesan council that made All Saints Protestant Episcopal Church extinct, at least in the eyes of the diocese. Approval of this resolution, based on a rare diocesan canon, means the diocese considers the Rev. David Harnish, rector of All Saints since 1986, its former rector; considers the All Saints vestry dissolved; and considers the building and all assets of the parish to be in diocesan hands.
The approved resolution resulted from the parish's repeatedly declining to pay its $16,000 apportionment for 2005. Parish leaders said their consciences no longer allow them to support the diocese because it favors ordaining gay clergy and blessing gay couples. For All Saints, these leaders said, it became a question of the authority Scripture has over the lives of Christians.
Oh. My. Word. [William Shatner here again . . . ]
I suppose this is the natural "next step" in the hostilities. But still . . .
"“I will come to the church on Sunday morning at the regular time to conduct a prayer service and be available with others of my staff to answer any and all questions which members of your congregation may have,” McKelvey [the bishop] wrote to Harnish and wardens Bud Roberts and Frances Miller.
Instead, vestry member Al Bagdonas and a plainclothes sheriff’s deputy met McKelvey at the door. Bagdonas told McKelvey he was welcome only as a fellow worshiper, not as a substitute for Harnish.
“I’m here to share my pastoral care with anyone who may be here,” said McKelvey, who brought along a plainclothes security man of his own. “Your rector has been informed that he’s not authorized to conduct this service, so I will not participate in it.”
. . . And during the convention that voted the parish "extinct" one of the delegates who protested the move gets awarded the "Blog Quote of the Week" Award.
"“What is wrong with being more patient, trying a little longer?” said Sandra Curtis of St. James, Hammondsport. “After all, are we not the church that believed Saddam Hussein needed time for the world to negotiate with him?”
Priceless.
You know . . . no Episcopalian has any right at all to be bored. Not a bit. Suicidal, maybe. But if you're bored as an Episcopalian, you just don't have a pulse.
# Posted by: Sarah at November 20, 2005 11:29 PMOkay, I hate to snatch away the prize for Blog Quote of the Week . . . but I just noticed this breezy statement by the IRS agent . . . no, I'm sorry, it was the Godfather, no wait, the bishop, to . . . . his victims-of-good-cheer.
"I’m here to share my pastoral care with anyone who may be here . . . "
In a new category, that's the "Reappraiser Line of the Week."
The next time I'm going to submit the divorce papers to an unsuspecting husband, or audit a hapless small business, or club someone in the kneecaps, before I swing the club, I'm going to stand there, smile, look the person in the eyes, and say . . .
"I’m here to share my pastoral care with anyone who may be here."
This could be a great made-for TV movie, don't you think? Maybe William Shatner could even be in it!
Love the blog quote of the week idea, Sarah. And you're right, we Episcopalians have no right to be a bit bored!
Hang in there, former All Saint-er's. "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
# Posted by: more martha than mary at November 21, 2005 06:59 AMIf we're doing nominations for blog quote of the week, or reappraiser blog quotes of the week, how about this one:
“I can probably empathise with them, knowing what I do of the Bible. If I’d grown up an Anglican I’d know much less of the Bible,” he says.
But many liberal people also know the Bible, they just don’t believe in it. So does he fit the same category? How important is the Bible to the Bishop of New Hampshire?
“The Bible is absolutely central. Short of Jesus Christ himself, who is the Word, it is the primary and principal source of how we know God.
“I believe in the literal Virgin Birth and physical resurrection. What people don’t understand is that just because I am gay, I am very conservative. What is sad is that my opponents and I would agree totally on the Creeds, but this one issue divides us and trumps all others.”
-- Bishop Gene Robinson, interviewed in the Church of England Newspaper, (commentary by the reporter.)
# Posted by: rick op at November 21, 2005 09:38 AMFrom the Anglican Communion Network story on the Eucharist celebrated at All Saints Irondequoit on Sunday:
"{Bishop of the Diocese of Rochester Jack]McKelvey said the service demonstrated that all parties in the dispute consider themselves Christians, adding that he believes they all are, albeit with major theological differences. (One difference was clear: All Saints invokes the Trinity as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The convention Eucharist referred to the Trinity as Creator, Redeemer and Enlivener.)"
# Posted by: rick op at November 21, 2005 09:42 AMIn fairness to the other players, I think we would have to exempt Gene Robinson from the blog quote of the week competition.
# Posted by: more martha than mary at November 21, 2005 10:20 AMIt is a sign of how far removed is Christ's candlestick from the church, that it took the Devil and his crowd to perform that work that Christ demands of His own people: their separation from apostacy and uncleanness.
My mind goes back to those Believers of whom, it was said, that they washed their garments white in the Blood of the Lamb. How tragic that so many of us would rather cling tight to filthiness for so long, when our Lord provides that fountain of cleansing for us.
It is a terrible thing to see Believers judged by the ungodly for their own uncleanness.
I agree with MMM [which sounds a little like a hip-hop name] . . .
We must exclude Gene Robinson from the competition -- it is utterly unfair to the rest of the competitors.
Rick Op *did* offer, however, another candidate for Blog Quote of the Week -- "the service demonstrated that all parties in the dispute consider themselves Christians, adding that he believes they all are, albeit with major theological differences" -- and I must admit that it is -- or would have been -- a good candidate.
After all, I've always thought that Buddhism was a pretty cool religion -- but I've never really believed that the origin of suffering is attachment. And until the past 2.5 years, I had sort of thought that Buddhism was not an option for me.
But now, considering all that I have learned, I realize that my concerns were but a bagatelle. If I substitute the word "people whom I don't like" for "attachment" I could sign on to that.
At that point, I could believe that the "cessastion of suffering is attainable" were I to get rid of the "people whom I don't like" [see Noble Truth #2] . . . . and I think then one might reasonably call me a "legitimate" faithful Buddhist.
I am calling a council, however, of me and some of my friends to further re-define and consider the 8-Fold Path. There are aspects of this Path that are somewhat troubling, and so I think that with the proper reflection, we might be able to really really improve on the 8-Fold Path some time in the very near future, always of course depending on following the proper canonical processes.
Those Buddhists who have difficulty with my insights on Noble Truth #2, particularly the substitution of "people whom I don't like" for the word "attachment", are not really Buddhists who understand the first especially of the 8-Fold Path -- "Right View".
As in, they don't have the "Right View" at all.
However, I would say that "all parties in our dispute consider ourselves Buddhists, albeit with major theological differences."
. . . All of the above being said, Rick OP's nomination of Blog Quote of the Week is hereby tabled indefinitely, due to a point of order. That point of order is that the Blog Quote of the Week was already nominated, seconded, and approved unanimously by the Steering Committee. One cannot nominate another candidate after the elections have been certified, as any Christian Episcopalian who is even *remotely* faithful should know.
Signed,
Chair, Secretary, and Treasurer,
Blog Quote of the Week Steering Committee
Sarah
But a point of order may only be raised by a member, not the chair, see RROO 10th Ed. generally at Section 23, and particularly at page 242 line 35, which provides that a Point of Order is raised by a member when the Chair fails to correct the breach.
Further, an out-of-order nomination cannot be tabled. If it be out of order, it is disposed of by ruling of the chair.
Finally, I don't recall the nomination process being opened to begin with. It appears that the Chair has unilaterally designated the Blog Quote of the Week without consulting the membership whatsoever. We'd have to check the By-laws to determine whether the Chair has any such power, as it is beyond the ordinary powers granted a chair by standard parliamentary process.
Perhaps what we need at this point is the mythical "Point of Information" whereby a member rises to inform the body that the Chair has run amuck.
While this is certainly a sad and awkward development, All Saints is to be congratulated for their stand! They will be blessed by God, and this, their Good Friday, will soon turn into an Easter morning of great joy and triumph.
Does anyone know of anything that we can do to support these folks? Do they need money? Is there a way we can send support without worrying that the Diocese will eventually take it?
# Posted by: Eddie Swain at November 21, 2005 01:20 PMThings we can do for the rector and parishioners of All Saints Irondequoit:
1. Pray for them
2. Send them messages of encouragement
3. Pray for them
Clearly the members of this church and its pastor are not going to roll over and play dead just because the diocese took a vote declaring them to be extinct-- the report of the death of this parish is obviously exaggerated. And clearly the diocese of Rochester is going to have to do more than take a convention vote or send down the bishop-- if the diocese wants to take the parish property away from its members, it will probably have to resort to the courts. I have no idea of the status of the title to parish property-- does the diocese hold legal title? Does the vestry? Is the diocese relying on the Dennis Canon or a similar canon of its own?
The parish probably needs lawyers, but, being an Episcopal parish and all, it probably has some.
Pray for them.
# Posted by: rick op at November 21, 2005 02:20 PMAmen to Rick's exhortation to prayer.
The parish seems to have a lawyer, Raymond Dague, (who is now very much on the front lines of TWO controversies in TWO dioceses!!)
Please keep Raymond & Pat Dague in prayer. Pat runs the excellent Transfigurations blog.
Here are a few links of interest for those of you who will commit to praying for them:
http://transfigurations.blogspot.com/2005/11/diocese-of-rochester-ny-lawyers-scrap.html
http://transfigurations.blogspot.com/2005/11/diocesan-conventions-in-new-york-by.html
http://transfigurations.blogspot.com/2005/11/sunday-evening-november-13th-2005-dear.html
I note too some of the prayers/quotes Pat has posted recently are VERY relevant, for instance, this, on adversity:
Adversity is not simply a tool. It is God's most effective tool for the advancement of our spiritual lives. The circumstances and events that we see as setbacks are oftentimes the very things that launch us into periods of intense spiritual growth. Once we begin to understand this, and accept it as a spiritual fact of life, adversity becomes easier to bear.
--Charles Stanley, In Touch
or this from Augustine:
God of our life, there are days when the burdens we carry chafe our shoulders and weigh us down; when the road seems dreary and endless, the skies grey and threatening; when our lives have no music in them, and our hearts are lonely, and our souls have lost their courage. Flood the path with light, run our eyes to where the skies are full of promise; tune our hearts to brave music; give us the sense of comradeship with heroes and saints of every age; and so quicken our spirits that we may be able to encourage the souls of all who journey with us on the road of life, to Your honour and glory.
-- Augustine, Works and Biography
P.S. love the blog quote of the week bit. Greg... give that its own thread!!
# Posted by: Karen B. at November 21, 2005 06:31 PM[In response to JPH]
VERGERS!!!!
Please escort that man -- the one who has an unseemly knowledge of Robert's Rules of Order, more so than my designated Diocesan Canon, who is managing all of these minor matters of rules and such -- please escort him to the door.
I see that we have a "voice of disunity" . . . in fact, an ungodly DIVISIVE voice that is threatening the Peaceful Unity of The Blog Quote of the Week's Steering Committee by bringing up, basically . . . disunity and divisive subjects that have to do with not agreeing with the wise and loving and, basically, inclusive decisions of the Head Bishop of the Steering Committee, which would be me.
Namely it appears that the DIVISIVE PERSON who has brought up DIVISIVE SUBJECTS that threaten the UNITY of the Steering Committee has regurgitated some arcane Robert's Rules of Order that essentially are antiquated, not applicable to postmodern contexts that sophisticated peoples in First World Countries live in, and, dare I say it . . . DIVISIVE.
They establish unseemly boundaries that, in fact, box some people out, and box others in -- [and those people boxed in are definitely the wrong sort] -- constraining the bonds of fellowship and UNITY that our Steering Committee has experienced over the past several hours.
Now, I've always been a gentle soul, peaceful, unified, communal, always interested in dialogue and reconciliation.
BUT THE VOICE OF DIVISIVENESS -- THE ONE IMPLYING SOME SORT OF MINOR PROCEDURAL ISSUES, MENTIONING ROBERT'S ANTIQUATED RULES OF ORDER -- SHALL NOT BE TOLERATED!!!
VERGERS!!!!!
Just a brief review of our policies and procedures -- our statement of faith, so to speak. We -- in this Steering Committee -- are ONE no matter what . . . all those who are with us but do not agree — get out!!!
Because . .. . we are really ONE!!! You over there — shut up, stop speaking, pay your assessment, didn’t you get the memo? WE ARE ONE!!!!!!! Ushers, escort that divisive group out of here — they don’t realize that WE ARE ONE! . . .
Now . . . is there anyone else in this unified group that does not realize we are ONE???? . . . .
Anyone else that wishes to be DIVISIVE?
Anyone else who wishes to bring up Patriarchal, Fascist, Constricting, and Unloving Robert's Rules?
I thought not.
. . .
In closing, I would like to read from I Corinthians 13, and a Collect for the Unity of the Church.
I just want to thank all of you for one of the most wonderful dialogues ever. I feel as if we have reached a deeper place of more ambiguity, open-mindedness, and inclusion.
. . . I feel reconciled.
Signed,
Chair, Secretary, Treasurer, and Bishop
Blog Quote of the Week Steering Committee
Sarah
# Posted by: at November 21, 2005 10:44 PM[In response to JPH]
VERGERS!!!!
Please escort that man -- the one who has an unseemly knowledge of Robert's Rules of Order, more so than my designated Diocesan Canon, who is managing all of these minor matters of rules and such -- please escort him to the door.
I see that we have a "voice of disunity" . . . in fact, an ungodly DIVISIVE voice that is threatening the Peaceful Unity of The Blog Quote of the Week's Steering Committee by bringing up, basically . . . disunity and divisive subjects that have to do with not agreeing with the wise and loving and, basically, inclusive decisions of the Head Bishop of the Steering Committee, which would be me.
Namely it appears that the DIVISIVE PERSON who has brought up DIVISIVE SUBJECTS that threaten the UNITY of the Steering Committee has regurgitated some arcane Robert's Rules of Order that essentially are antiquated, not applicable to postmodern contexts that sophisticated peoples in First World Countries live in, and, dare I say it . . . DIVISIVE.
They establish unseemly boundaries that, in fact, box some people out, and box others in -- [and those people boxed in are definitely the wrong sort] -- constraining the bonds of fellowship and UNITY that our Steering Committee has experienced over the past several hours.
Now, I've always been a gentle soul, peaceful, unified, communal, always interested in dialogue and reconciliation.
BUT THE VOICE OF DIVISIVENESS -- THE ONE IMPLYING SOME SORT OF MINOR PROCEDURAL ISSUES, MENTIONING ROBERT'S ANTIQUATED RULES OF ORDER -- SHALL NOT BE TOLERATED!!!
VERGERS!!!!!
Just a brief review of our policies and procedures -- our statement of faith, so to speak. We -- in this Steering Committee -- are ONE no matter what . . . all those who are with us but do not agree — get out!!!
Because . .. . we are really ONE!!! You over there — shut up, stop speaking, pay your assessment, didn’t you get the memo? WE ARE ONE!!!!!!! Ushers, escort that divisive group out of here — they don’t realize that WE ARE ONE! . . .
Now . . . is there anyone else in this unified group that does not realize we are ONE???? . . . .
Anyone else that wishes to be DIVISIVE?
Anyone else who wishes to bring up Patriarchal, Fascist, Constricting, and Unloving Robert's Rules?
I thought not.
. . .
In closing, I would like to read from I Corinthians 13, and a Collect for the Unity of the Church.
I just want to thank all of you for one of the most wonderful dialogues ever. I feel as if we have reached a deeper place of more ambiguity, open-mindedness, and inclusion.
. . . I feel reconciled.
Signed,
Chair, Secretary, Treasurer, and Bishop
Blog Quote of the Week Steering Committee
Sarah
# Posted by: Sarah at November 21, 2005 10:44 PMPosted twice, just to make sure people get the message.
; > )
[sorry Greg]
# Posted by: Sarah at November 21, 2005 10:46 PMShe's been into the single malt again and spinning out.
# Posted by: Prophet Micaiah at November 21, 2005 11:57 PMWell, you brought up the rules of order first.
# Posted by: John Pittman Hey at November 22, 2005 02:19 AMWhat, everybody doesn't bring along their RROO 10th Edition to every vestry meeting and convention????
It's only 704 pages long.
# Posted by: John Pittman Hey at November 22, 2005 02:21 AMI suppose that it would actually be so much easier if everybody just tried to master the basics of the Scriptures before they came to the vestry meetings and conventions
# Posted by: John Pittman Hey at November 22, 2005 02:25 AMYou brought up 1 Corinthians 13, and I just thought I'd point out to everybody that 1 Corinthians 5 comes before 1 Corinthians 13.
# Posted by: John Pittman Hey at November 22, 2005 02:27 AMIt appears that the Reconciliation and Listening Committee has not yet produced the desired results.
That is why I have inaugurated the Reconciliation and Listening Committee II -- and have asked a good round dozen attorneys to fill this committee. It is my hope that the new Reconciliation and Listening Process will eliminate the Divisive issues that confront the formerly peaceful Steering Committee for Blog Quote of the Week.
Yours in peace,
Chair, Secretary, Treasurer, and Bishop
Blog Quote of the Week Steering Committee
Sarah
# Posted by: Sarah Hey at November 22, 2005 07:22 AMUh...excuse me. Does Sarah, the aspiring Samarui, know that the PB is using her name on the blog! Horrors of horrors. Having successfully used this jam it down their throats with a smile technique for many years now, it appears he seeks to infiltrate the world of reasserters by using our beloved Sarah! The humanity!!!
# Posted by: Jackie at November 22, 2005 08:25 AM"I’m here to share my pastoral care with anyone who may be here,” said McKelvey."
I recall reading a similar statement from an Alabama Bishop in regard to a situation with a Montgomery parish.
# Posted by: Barnabas at November 22, 2005 12:19 PMWill you stand up with me and cheer for Raymond Dague, Esq.? He was the lawyer that met Bp. McKelvey at the door on Monday and said, no, we aren't going to give you the keys to the church. This church isn't laying down and has not been caught unaware as were our brothers and sisters in Christ in Bristol, CT.
# Posted by: Tony at November 22, 2005 04:18 PMI will!
# Posted by: Greg at November 22, 2005 04:21 PMI second.
All in favor...
# Posted by: Summersnow at November 22, 2005 06:07 PMAye!
Great, important drama, that!
# Posted by: overtheline at November 22, 2005 06:49 PMYou can send your notes of support to David J Harnish, at All Saints' Episcopal Church, 759 Winona Blvd, Rochester, NY 14617...OR...126 Bellehurst Dr, Rochester, NY 14617, where they will be safe from the Bishop's prying eyes.
# Posted by: Anonymous at November 22, 2005 08:30 PMRender what is caesr's unto caesar.
Render what is the diocese's unto the diocese.
Many have given much of their riches to their church. If you are to save your soul, you must be able to walk away from your riches.
Rev. 18-4:
And I heard a voice in heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins."
Hi everyone,
Sorry I have not joined in , in a while.
I do have a question for Greg or Sarah or any one who may know .
Did they do the service with their present CBP or did they use the 1928 CBP? The reason for me asking is I have heard some of the break - aways have gone back to the 1928.
Blessings
Bro Paul
The statistical chart for Rochester is one of the most dismal of all:
http://12.0.101.88/reports/PR_ChartsDemo/exports/ParishRPT_11302005110845PM.pdf
In case you haven't bookmarked this prime site for snapshots of ECUSA decline:
http://pr_charts.dfms.org/charts.aspx
But see South Carolina and Tennessee for wonderful bright spots.
# Posted by: overtheline at November 30, 2005 10:55 PM